Andréanne Larouche
Shefford, Quebec · Bloc Québécois · Canada
“Mr. Speaker, I would also like to join my colleagues in wishing the member a happy retirement. As women in politics, she and I help make up barely 30% of Parliament. I truly wish her a wonderful retirement. Although we do not always share the same values, we live in a healthy democracy.”
“Mr. Speaker, with just two weeks to go before July 1, hundreds of people still cannot find housing and are at risk of becoming homeless. Municipalities are investing to address the unprecedented homelessness crisis, including Montreal, which has tripled its budget. Quebec has also increased funding for this issue in its latest budget.”
“Mr. Speaker, June 15 is World Elder Abuse Awareness Day. At a time when fraud targeting seniors is gaining attention, let us remember the importance of staying vigilant and taking action against the various types of abuse, including financial abuse.”
“Mr. Speaker, I have a quick comment and then a question for my colleague, whom I thank for her speech. I will add my thoughts on this democratic issue. While the government was busy manufacturing its majority, it did not accept any of the 11 recommendations from the Bloc Québécois.”
“Mr. Speaker, I would like to echo the sentiments of my colleague from Rivière-du-Nord and reiterate another point. Certain groups have written to us because there has been a great deal of disinformation coming from the Conservatives.”
“Mr. Speaker, I will be brief. I listened carefully to my colleague. Does he believe that the amendments proposed in committee will really ensure that the bill effectively addresses this hate speech that should not even be happening in the first place? Does he believe we have the necessary tools to tie all this together properly?”
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“We are looking forward to a more in-depth study of this bill because our goal is ultimately to ensure that justice is independent, credible and sensitive to the realities of victims. This topic was the subject of two studies at the Standing Committee on National Defence, where I witnessed Liberal filibustering that was quite striking. At the time, I was replacing my colleague, the member for Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères . This situation led to this file being submitted to the Standing Committee on the Status of Women for a study in hopes that the less partisan spirit of this committee would lead to the creation of a report, while everything was at a standstill at the Standing Committee on National Defence. Since the Deschamps report in 2015, all reports have pointed to the same culture of misogyny and impunity.”
“I will also address the Bloc Québécois's position, and I will close with a few statistics. Bill C‑11 seeks to modernize the military justice system and remove the military's jurisdiction over sexual offences committed in Canada. This is a direct response to the 2022 Arbour report and the 2021 Fish report, which were released after decades of sexual misconduct scandals in the Canadian Armed Forces. Justice Arbour called out the military's culture of sexism and silence, where women were afraid to come forward. The Bloc Québécois will support the principle of Bill C‑11 so that it can be studied in committee, but we denounce the past inaction of Liberal and Conservative governments.”
“Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by saying that I will be sharing my time with my hon. colleague, the member for Laurentides—Labelle . Today, we are talking about Bill C-11 , the military justice system modernization act. This is an issue that I have been following since the beginning of my first term. As the Bloc Québécois critic for the status of women, I have had to take a stand on this issue and study it at not one but two committees, namely the Standing Committee on the Status of Women and the Standing Committee on National Defence, which is why this reform is so important to me. I will begin with a bit of background. Next, I will address the issue of women in the Canadian Armed Forces and the fact that they are victims of a closed system. I will then talk about the Liberals' inaction and the Conservatives' silence.”
“Mr. Speaker, it is true that it has been 10 years. That was the timeline we saw with the Liberals. My hon. colleague and I worked together on this file, and I remember studying this issue. With all due respect, I would like to ask him a question. Who appointed Mr. Vance 10 years ago? Was it not the Conservatives?”
“Mr. Speaker, the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, of which I am a vice-chair, is finalizing our report on coercive control, gender-based violence and femicide. These studies started during the last Parliament and we are picking up where we left off. Our next study will focus on a motion that was tabled in collaboration with the Conservative members of the committee. The study will seek to determine how section 810 of the Criminal Code could be improved to ensure the safety of women and girls. Conservative MPs have added a review of bail and sentencing regimes. Does my colleague not believe that this type of debate should transcend partisanship? Should we not study the issue seriously in the House and in committee, rather than adopting such a bill under closure?”
“Does the federal government recognize that, at some point, it will have to admit that the decisions made here regarding the Criminal Code and justice have repercussions on Quebec's finances?”
“Mr. Speaker, one thing that has not been discussed much in today's debate is the fiscal imbalance. My colleagues may be wondering what the fiscal imbalance has to do with today's debate and whether I am out to lunch. Let me explain. What we are debating today is a federal matter, but let us not forget that every decision made here regarding the Criminal Code inevitably has repercussions on the finances of Quebec and the provinces, since the administration of justice is largely their responsibility. Let us not forget that the fiscal imbalance persists, whether in terms of health transfers or in the area of justice. We can make decisions here, but then the burden falls on Quebec and the provinces.”
“Mr. Speaker, my colleague's speech comes at a time when we are preparing to study a report on crimes against women. These crimes obviously leave their mark. When victims came to testify before the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, they said that regulating the use of the Jordan decision could make a real difference. The Bloc Québécois previously introduced Bill C-392 to regulate the use of the Jordan decision. Of course, it is always preferable for a trial to be held as quickly as possible. However, we want to ensure that the Jordan decision cannot be invoked for certain crimes, such as sexual offences, murders, kidnappings, firearms offences and terrorism. Survivors and victims are asking us to do this. What does my colleague think?”
“Mr. Speaker, today, we are talking about an important and serious subject that warrants important and serious debate. Right now, the opposition motion that the Conservative Party is proposing is more of a gag order on a bill that affects people's rights. That is what my question for my colleague is about. The Conservatives' bill should be debated and studied in committee with the seriousness it deserves. Should we not do that instead of trying to impose a gag order and fast-track a bill on such an important issue?”
“Mr. Speaker, I want to pick up on the question that was just asked. The Liberals have been talking a lot about this bail reform promised by the Minister of Justice . I have colleagues on the Standing Committee on the Status of Women who have spoken to me about it. We were told that it would happen this fall and that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women should not take on too much because we should wait for this reform. How does all this fit in with what we in the Bloc Québécois believe, namely that initiatives must be consistent to strengthen the mechanisms aimed at coordinating the justice system with public safety? I am thinking of repeat offenders or people who commit serious firearm offences, sexual assault or crimes against women. How will all of that be coordinated?”
“Mr. Speaker, crime is a complex issue. It is also a matter of intervention. We need to look at this from a perspective that is as broad as possible. That is what the Bloc Québécois is trying to do by making various suggestions, such as cracking down on criminal organizations. That is important. We are also proposing to create a registry of criminal organizations, to facilitate the seizure of assets and to prohibit criminal organizations from displaying their insignia. We also want to create a specific offence for the criminalization and recruitment of young people who commit offences. We want to limit the use of the Jordan decision, and we also want to abolish the religious exemption for hate speech. How is it that Canada's Criminal Code allows hate speech if it is uttered in the name of religion?”
“Not only does the Bloc Québécois agree that the Jordan decision should not apply, but we actually introduced a bill, Bill C‑392 , to ensure that prosecution of these crimes is not subject to such time limits and that victims can be heard. I would like my colleague to comment on how important the Jordan decision issue is and on reintroducing this bill.”
“Mr. Speaker, I would like to join my colleague from Rivière-du-Nord in expressing condolences to the family of Gabie Renaud. My colleague also mentioned other cases that prove the number of femicides is growing. The Standing Committee on the Status of Women agreed to study a report from the last Parliament on gender-based crimes, particularly crimes against women. What we heard from victims and survivors is that eliminating the time limits is more important to them than minimum sentences. This is of utmost importance in cases involving sexual assault and violent crimes against women. The Jordan decision should not apply. Witnesses talked to us about this, and we will talk about it again in the report.”
“She mentioned Crown attorneys, but the federal government is in no position to lecture anyone; it has been dragging its feet on the appointment of judges. The criteria are even rather questionable at times. For example, a judge who is an anti-secularism activist was appointed to the Quebec Superior Court even though he did not have the required 10 years of experience. This goes against the Canadian Judges Act, which requires much more than that. I would like my colleague to tell us more about those two points.”
“Mr. Speaker, my question is twofold. First, my colleague raised the issue of sexual crimes. We are currently studying a report on gender-based crimes in the Standing Committee on the Status of Women. The report discusses the fact that women are victims of violence, but also addresses the fact that they are victimized again by these time limits that are so unreasonable that their attackers can get off scot-free because of the Jordan decision. Witnesses have brought this up. The Bloc Québécois tabled a bill on this issue to ensure that someone accused of a sexual offence or an offence against women cannot get away with it by invoking the Jordan decision. My colleague then spoke about court delays.”
“Mr. Speaker, the list of serious offences related to today's motion includes aggravated sexual assault. I would like my colleague to explain what aggravated sexual assault means to him because that is something that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women is looking at right now. I moved a motion in committee on gender-based crimes, crimes committed against women. I also moved a motion to enable the committee to study the criminalization of coercive control. In the near future, the committee will be conducting a study on the justice system and its responses to victims, particularly with regard to section 810 of the Criminal Code. I would like my colleague to tell us whether he has any interest in the report that we will be publishing and the recommendations it will contain.”
“I would like my colleague's thoughts on this topic we have not discussed much today, namely the impact of labour on inflation and rising prices.”
“Madam Speaker, I too come from a rural riding. Shefford has many rural areas. One economic factor that has not been discussed much here today, but which may have an impact on inflation, is labour. This summer, in July, business owners from the Eastern Townships invited me to lunch to talk about their situation and the financial pressure caused by the issue of foreign workers and its impact. They need this labour force for their production, so it will ultimately have an effect on inflation. In August, I met Marielle from Mont-Rouge farms. I tip my hat to her. She also told me about the importance of foreign workers and how essential they are to the workforce. Labour shortages are bound to have an impact on prices.”
“Mr. Speaker, if there is one thing my colleague and I agree on, it is the mismanagement of public finances. That is clear. The government is being led by someone who presented himself as the great banker-in-chief during the last election campaign. He boasted about being able to control public finances. What we saw, however, was someone who deprived the government of revenue by lowering taxes and forgoing revenues from GAFAM. He turned down revenue while announcing investments. The upshot is that he is dragging his feet on tabling a budget, and the figures we are hearing make no sense. People are talking about a nearly $100‑billion deficit. Who knows what we are headed for on November 4. How can the government ask people to tighten their belts or expect the middle class to struggle while neglecting public finances?”
“As a result, women and children were forced to return to their abusers. Instead of trying to interfere in Quebec's jurisdictions, the government should transfer the money because we need it for our shelters. Health and social services are within Quebec's purview.”
“Mr. Speaker, I thank the member, who is a new colleague of mine at the Standing Committee on the Status of Women. I welcome her to the committee. Right now, I am genuinely deeply concerned about the federal government's attempts to interfere in Quebec's jurisdiction once again, instead of taking concrete action to lift women out of poverty. Here is an example. Some women stay in violent situations because they are afraid of ending up on the street, but funding for shelters was blocked this summer. I would like to thank my colleague, the member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue , because he is the one who told me that Ottawa was withholding money for shelters where he is in Abitibi, in Rouyn-Noranda, and elsewhere in Quebec. The government was slow to get that money out the door.”
“To help lower prices, we need to support our agricultural sector. What does my colleague think about the Bloc Québécois's ideas, such as encouraging local greenhouse production to reduce dependence on imports or protecting supply management? Yes, there is a law, but we must remain vigilant—”
“Mr. Speaker, a school food program is all well and good, but when we are talking about what we can do to help people in our ridings cope with this inflation, I find it somewhat unfortunate that the Liberals keep reminding us that they are helping students in schools. It is like when they told us that they were helping seniors because they were giving more money to food banks. The Liberal government is very short-sighted. That being said, we know that food prices have risen, particularly since the end of the COVID pandemic. Prices have surged by 26%. Where has most of this money done? It has gone into the pockets of the grocery giants. My colleague from Berthier—Maskinongé addressed this issue this morning. We really need to study the issue of the lack of competition and lack of players in the food industry. This affects food prices.”
“Here is another idea: Protect farmers by investing in food sovereignty and rewarding them for their good environmental practices. I would like my colleague to comment on that.”
“Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. He spoke about a community that is particularly important to me, since I come from the riding of Shefford, which is home to fantastic rural communities that support Quebec agriculture. We have heard from people in the farming community about what is really causing prices to go up, which we have seen over the years. Input prices are up, with fertilizer prices quadrupling as a result of the conflict with Ukraine. Also, heat waves and droughts in California and Quebec have increased the price of lettuce by 30% to 50%. Every day, Quebec produce growers experience the impact of climate change in their fields. People in the agricultural sector and the Bloc Québécois are calling for regulation of the major grocery chains' profit margins.”
“We must remember that it is our duty to protect the social safety net and to enable older people to enjoy a well-deserved and dignified retirement. It is a matter of respect. This is true every day, but October 1 is a perfect opportunity to remind ourselves of it.”
“Mr. Speaker, on October 1, International Seniors Day, I want everyone to take a moment to think about those who built Quebec. We need to find solutions to the issues that affect them most, such as isolation and abuse. More importantly, we need to take action to support them in dealing with the skyrocketing cost of living. That is why the Bloc Québécois is taking this opportunity to announce that we will be reintroducing our bill to increase old age security for people aged 65 to 74 and to end age discrimination against seniors. This was an election promise, and we are committed to making it happen because financial insecurity does not wait until you are 75 and inflation directly penalizes those on fixed incomes. We will also take action to allow those who wish to continue working to do so without being unduly penalized.”
“Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his speech, which I think complemented mine well. Today's discussion covers a very broad topic. We see the consequences of inflation, price increases. I thank him for pointing out that creating false taxes or waving a magic wand for solutions does not work. It takes real action. Right now, farmers are the first to see the effects of climate change in their fields, year after year. Instead of being blamed, they should be made part of the solution and they should be rewarded for their good practices. I would like my colleague to tell us more about that and about the progress that the agricultural sector wants to make in terms of the environment.”
“These are all things that the agricultural community asked me about this summer. I look forward to showing my colleague the little questionnaire that I was able to fill in thanks to my meeting with farmers in Shefford, whom I sincerely thank for their work.”
“Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Berthier—Maskinongé, whom I call the super whip and who is also the agriculture, agri-food and supply management critic. That is, of course, what the agricultural community is asking us for right now. I must applaud my colleagues for passing the Bloc Québécois's bill because, this summer, people were thanking me for getting that bill passed. We need to continue to defend that legislation and review the “Agri” programs so that they are better adapted to the current situation. That is something that was mentioned. Yes, farmers are asking to be supported in their transition. They are asking us to take into account the fact that they have to adapt to climate change. They need to be supported in that. We also need to do more research and development.”
“Mr. Speaker, the tax cut was just a scheme to get more votes, and it was temporary. Cutting the carbon tax was the same thing. What seniors want is a long-term increase in their income. If my colleague opposite were listening to seniors' groups, he would know that they need long-term assistance. The government needs to increase pensions by 10% for seniors aged 65 to 74, who were left out last time. I am also told that the guaranteed income supplement needs to be reviewed. The method used to calculate indexation will be important and crucial. In short, it is important to take a long-term view rather than simply taking action to get re-elected. That is what seniors are asking for.”
“Mr. Speaker, I have had the opportunity to work with my colleague on sensitive issues such as women experiencing violence and the need to empower women economically so they can break the cycle of poverty. Like me, she is her party's critic for seniors. I remember going to her office to discuss the importance of increasing seniors' income in order to improve their financial situation. That is crucial. The government did increase the income of seniors aged 75 and over by 10%, but it is not like all seniors aged 65 to 74 are able to work. Furthermore, poverty and illness do not necessarily wait for people to reach 75. People can get sick and be poor before the age of 75. These seniors need the same 10% increase. We are not asking for the moon. We are asking for just the bare minimum so that seniors can age with dignity.”
“Representatives of businesses and agricultural producers told us climate change was affecting them and that this was affecting grocery prices. They also talked about temporary foreign workers. They need labour. That also has an impact on grocery prices and the economy in general. In short, we need to take action, not propose bogus solutions to real problems.”
“Women should not have to choose between violence and homelessness. People are not asking for much. They just want to be able to eat three times a day and be able to live and age with dignity. We can see that this government has failed to guarantee even that. The Liberals brag about being great with the economy. During the election campaign, they said they would be there to solve the crux of the crisis, the cost of living issue. In July, I took advantage of my summer tour on employment to meet with representatives of organizations using this program constructively. People like this program. That being said, the representatives wanted me to be aware of the increase in violence against women and the increase in homelessness among seniors. In August, people focused more on the economy.”
“People want us to bring back the bill to increase old age security starting at age 65, because it is not acceptable to divide seniors into two categories: those 75 and over who can afford to eat and those 74 and under who should go hungry. The age of retirement is 65. The government boasts that it lowered the age of retirement to 65 from 67, but what does that age of retirement actually mean to the Liberal government? We are also calling for the funds for affordable and social housing to be released. Meaningless announcements and withheld cheques will not shelter anyone from the cold weather that is on its way. We are a few weeks from seeing people on the streets run the risk of getting frostbite and freezing to death. That is not acceptable. We are also calling for immediate support for shelters.”
“We might also talk about marginalized communities, indigenous people, immigrants, who are overrepresented in statistics on poverty and homelessness. Since Granby is such a welcoming community, that is another reality I heard about this summer. I will now tie all this back to the Bloc Québécois's demands. The Bloc Québécois is calling for a complete overhaul of employment insurance, because the social safety net is so full of holes that entire families are being left to fend for themselves. This fall, I will also be returning to an issue that we discussed during the election campaign. I hear about it in the community from seniors' groups. In fact, I have meetings scheduled soon.”
“It is doing what it can, but it will need other levels of government to step in and lend a hand. Among seniors, 11% of Granby's households over age 65 are facing a dire housing situation. In terms of rental housing, nearly half of Granby's households are renters, and many are dependent on an already strained rental market. Among homeowners, 8.2% spend 30% or more of their income on housing. Even owning a home is no guarantee of long-term accessibility or security. Then there is youth and poverty. This summer, people talked to us about how the poverty rate among youth aged 18 to 24 is 14.3% , one of the highest among all age groups. Many young people are employed in precarious jobs or working part-time or on short-term contracts, so they are not eligible for employment insurance, which has a big impact on their mental health.”
“Those seeking shelter are struggling: 84% of the women staying in shelters were fleeing intimate partner violence, and 70% had been living with their abuser before leaving. For some of them, not being sure if they can find a shelter bed or housing forces them to remain in violent situations. This cycle is hard to break. Affordable housing is at a standstill. Projects that had already received their promised funding have been put on hold by Ottawa, including the shelters I mentioned. Meanwhile, families are sleeping in their cars. In Granby, which is in the riding of Shefford, 1,275 households, or 4% of all households, are living in core housing need, which means their living situation is less than satisfactory. The town is doing incredible work.”
“Staying in the workforce should be a choice seniors make because they want to work and continue to participate in the workforce. (1100) Let us talk about women and poverty. Women stay in violent situations because they are afraid of ending up on the street. This summer, funding for shelters was blocked. As a result, women and children were forced to move back in with their abusers. Bloc Québécois members told me about this situation that was happening in their region this summer. It is unacceptable. According to a recent study, violence against women is the most common cause of homelessness among women. The number of senior clients is rising, and more and more women are ending up on the street.”
“With both rent and food prices rising, more and more seniors are being forced to choose between putting food on the table, heating their homes and paying rent. I think it is worth noting that people 65 and over will account for nearly a quarter of Quebec's population by 2031. We know that many seniors rely solely on the public system and therefore live on an average of $24,500 a year. As the Observatoire québécois des inégalités, with which I jointly organized a conference on seniors' financial health, has noted, this amount is not nearly enough to cover housing, food and health care. Seniors are being forced to re-enter the workforce after retiring. They have no choice, if they want to eat. Many have been reduced to picking up shifts at the age of 70 just to pay for groceries. This should not be happening.”
“We have a hunger relief organization in my riding called SOS Dépannage. This outstanding organization told me that there has been a major uptick in demand for food banks, which are now receiving over two million visits a month. Food banks say they are overwhelmed. This is not right. I have also seen numbers showing that unemployed people are not the only ones affected by this problem. Many workers, people with jobs, are being forced to visit food banks. That is shocking. This is a new reality for food banks. Again, SOS Dépannage told me that more and more people, including people with jobs, are using food banks. More seniors and single mothers are also visiting food banks. This is the new reality. Poverty among seniors is not getting any better. Seniors are losing their homes.”
“According to the Union des producteurs agricoles, farm debt in Quebec exceeded $20 billion in 2022. I wanted to start by taking stock of the situation because the motion talks a lot about the increase in food prices and food bank use. For the agricultural community, there is no question that the rise in input costs and debt levels are having an impact on food prices down the line. Then there is inflation. The middle class is getting poorer. Cumulative inflation in housing, food and transportation is driving some members of the middle class to the brink of poverty. Low-income households now spend nearly two-thirds of their income on non-discretionary expenses, including housing, food and transportation. They have very little left to make ends meet. Yes, people are going hungry. I have heard about it first-hand.”
“It says that food prices have risen, food banks are expecting high volumes of visits, and food bank use is up. These are things that we, too, are seeing. I will not speak to the second part because, as usual, the Conservatives are offering bogus solutions to real problems. I have seen what the situation is in my own riding of Shefford. My principal role is to represent the people of Shefford, but I am also the Bloc Québécois critic for status of women and seniors. In my speech, I am therefore going to highlight what I am seeing with regard to growing poverty among women and seniors. Costs are exploding in the agriculture sector, as we know, and this is having a definite impact. Producers are telling us that their input costs are up. Many Quebec farms are already drowning in debt.”
“Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by stating that I will be sharing my time with our chief whip, who is first and foremost the member for Berthier—Maskinongé . I think that he himself would say that his role as a member of Parliament is the more important one. We Bloc Québécois members are, above all, here to represent our constituents. It is in the rather unusual context of the return of Parliament, where we are hearing one thing and the complete opposite at the same time, that I rise today to speak on this Conservative opposition day. I will not read out their motion in full, but will instead focus on certain facts that we can share with the Conservatives. These are things that we observed while travelling around our respective ridings this past summer. The first part of the motion talks about “food inflation”.”
“I would like her to talk to us about the fact that these laws exist first and foremost to protect the interests of Quebec, and were democratically voted into force by members of the National Assembly.”
“Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. She mentioned taking a look back at a bill previously introduced by the government. The question of the notwithstanding clause was previously brought forward by Mr. Lametti, who was recently rewarded for being a good, useful Liberal. However, I want to draw my colleague's attention to some research done, and I have figures. In 2016—this research was done by law professor Guillaume Rousseau—41 laws passed by the Quebec National Assembly included at least 11 that remain in force. As far as I know, and as my colleague also mentioned it in her speech, there is no law on the books to reinstate the death penalty, restore to slavery or restrict freedom of the press.”
“Mr. Speaker, in fact, I would like to hear what my colleague has to say about the Liberals' hypocrisy in this debate. The Liberal spin they tried to pass off is that they did not want to touch the issue of secularism, boasting about being the great defenders of Quebec. They hide behind this pretense to challenge the notwithstanding clause, implying, for example, that it could even be invoked to suppress the freedom of the press. However, they are the ones hindering freedom of the press by backing down on GAFAM and not adequately protecting local media. This hypocrisy shows, and the member for Pontiac—Kitigan Zibi seems to think so, that the Liberals still think that Bill 21 is a bad thing for women. Again, that is hypocrisy.”
“Madam Speaker, I will bring my colleague back to today's debate. Since this morning, it has been difficult for the Conservatives to speak to this issue. As my colleague, the member for Saint-Jean , said this morning, I think that we are perfectly able to walk and chew gum at the same time. We agree that we need to address the cost of living. However, I think that it is entirely legitimate to defend the right of Saskatchewan or Quebec to enact their own laws without being challenged. Does my colleague think that we here in Parliament are capable of considering the cost of living while also defending the right of a province, in our case Quebec, to enact its own laws without being challenged by the federal government?”
“What is more, Quebeckers' money is being used to challenge this fundamental principle, the consequences of which are being seen in the United States. Quebeckers' money is being used to challenge a law passed by the Quebec National Assembly.”
“Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. I would like to pick up on what the member for Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères said in his question. The parliamentary secretary responded that there was a a risk of violations based on what is happening in the United States, but that is precisely the crux of the issue. We are currently seeing a rise in religious influence on the government in the United States. That is why the principle of secularism involves not attacking the rights of individuals to practise their religion. The parliamentary secretary also invoked rights and freedoms. It is more a matter of remembering that there should not be any connection between church and state.”