Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire
Cork South-Central · Sinn Féin · Ireland
“That is important and the Minister and I share that view, much as we disagree on how it is not right to get rid of the triple lock. We have made that very clear and we think there is scope to deploy on peacekeeping missions elsewhere.”
“As I probably will not get more questions and it is my last contribution before the recess, I wish to take the opportunity to thank the staff of this institution and the Ceann Comhairle's office, who serve us so well.”
“We have all probably been guilty of the offence of going over time at different stages, I am sure. Despite our disagreements in relation to the triple lock, I think the Minister and I agree that peacekeeping missions are important.”
“In the context of the previous question, I submitted another question that was ruled out of order, which is fair enough. I probably did not word my question as precisely as Deputy Gibney worded hers. I record my concern about legal representation in that regard. It is important to say that. This question relates to another welfare issue.”
“The Minister said that she is not pushing anybody to the courts. I am not a doctor and cannot make a clinical decision, but if people suffered negative health outcomes that they believe have a connection to their clinical exposure, and they have never taken a case, how precisely is the Government going to help them?”
“The Minister talks about the need to ensure that Defence Forces personnel have the ability to deploy internationally and are not prevented from participating in rescue missions. I have no problem at all with head No. 7. Actually, most of the legislation is fine. It is just head No.”
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“Déanfaidh mé dhá phríomhphointe. Tá mé chun rud éigin a rá atá cosúil leis an méid atá ráite ag an Teachta Mac Aonghusa ó thaobh an tobair de. Uaireanta, fiosraíonn daoine, agus fios acu go bhfuil Gaeilge agam, faoi mo thuairim agus léargas ar staid na Gaelainne. Deirim go bhfuil idir ábhair dhóchais is imní ann. Ó thaobh an dóchais de, is cinnte go bhfuil go leor rudaí maithe ag tarlú inár nGaelscoileanna agus cathracha. Tá fís ann agus an stuif sin go léir sna meáin. Tá go leor rudaí dearfacha ag tarlú. É sin ráite, mura ndéantar caomhnú agus cosaint ar an tobar, is é sin, an Ghaeltacht, is beag is fiú an méid sin agus na daoine uilig ag teacht trí na Gaelscoileanna agus ag labhairt Gaelainne.”
“I want him to give a direct answer to that question because the Irish people deserve an answer. Does this Government believe that Ireland should be militarily neutral?”
“I have heard the Minister and the Taoiseach say dozens of times that Ireland is military neutral but not politically neutral on Ukraine. That is a good position. I agree with it. There is no doubt in my mind that Russia is the aggressor in the conflict. Last night, the Taoiseach's office put out a statement that Ireland was committed politically, militarily and diplomatically. This comes at a time when the Government is dumping the much-valued triple lock neutrality protection. The Irish people believe in neutrality. Many wonder why the Government wants to get rid of this central part of our neutrality, the triple lock. Now for the very first time we have a Government saying that it is not militarily neutral. I want the Minister to tell the Irish people if the Irish Government no longer believes in Irish neutrality.”
“Is he reasonably satisfied that within the envelope that is there over the coming two or three years, there is scope to support a project like this in the next couple of years from within the allocation provided to the NTA?”
“From what the Minister is saying, it sounds as if from the discussions his Department has had with the local authority, what is anticipated is pedestrian access via a bridge adjacent to the Mick Barry Road. That is what is being looked at. There are various options in terms of tunnels and things like that and there probably were difficulties in terms of that, but realistically we are looking at a bridge. I welcome that. It is vitally important. I will continue to engage with Cork City Council. In terms of the Minister’s experience, perhaps he could give us a sense - it is difficult to say at this point – in terms of delivery.”
“I find the Minister’s response encouraging. It seems he understands the benefits of the project and I hope he will look at it favourably when the more fleshed-out proposal comes to him. I appreciate him saying €4,000 is significant in the sense that it represents a commitment. It is obviously not going to go very far in this particular year, even in terms of detailed design and so on. The council is not going to be in a position to engage a contractor or subcontractor. For that kind of money it will have to do it inhouse, and figure out some kind of plan in that regard. I hope it is in a position to do something like that. I will be engaging with the city council to ensure it is able to advance design during the course of the year.”
“The NTA funding for this year has now passed but I hope that as the Minister looks to prepare next year's NTA allocations, he will work with the NTA to ensure that there is a much more substantial allocation so that we can properly advance this project and ensure access.”
“I understand that sometimes the approach is to try to put in a budget line that can be built upon in the coming years. I am taking this opportunity to convey to the Minister the benefits of what is a small investment. There are a number of ways this could be done. I think there are some underpasses that would have been there in the past but I think it is potentially more likely as a bridge across this link road. This is something that has to be delivered. It is very badly needed. I do not think it would break the bank but it would open up this park. A lot of the focus on these kind of projects and these NTA projects is about ensuring that people are able to walk and cycle to be able to go to work but also to access amenities. That sums it up. This is potentially very beneficial for the communities in question.”
“It is a fantastic park but it is frustrating for people when they can only go there by car and then the car park is full, so what is needed is a connection. Ultimately, this can potentially connect right across through the potential greenways that will exist right across through Ballyphehane and Togher and potentially linking up to the viaduct, which will be potentially very beneficial for those communities and commuters but also from the tourism point of view. Here and now, there is that short distance that needs to crossed - the link road to bring people from Ballyphehane, Togher and Turners Cross to allow them to get across to Tramore Valley Park by foot and by bike. There was a small allocation in the most recent round of funding but I think it was only a couple of thousand euro. Realistically, it is not going to do a lot.”
“People in those communities are unable to access Tramore Valley Park except by car. It is simply not safe to access. It is not legal for pedestrians to access it. Access from that direction would be across the link road that connects the Kinsale Road roundabout to the city. The Minister might possibly be familiar with some of these areas. It is causing huge frustration that this fantastic park and terrific amenity has been provided by Cork City Council and the people in these neighbourhoods are able to look across the road at it but are unable to reach it other than in their cars. On top of that, the car park is very often full because it is so popular. I like to use it myself, although sometimes I like to ration it because I was there so often during Covid because it was within my 5 km that I spent too much time there.”
“This an issue of huge concern that I hope can be resolved fairly easily over the coming year. Tramore Valley Park is a fantastic new park that has been developed in the past couple of years. It was officially opened in 2019 and was practically opened a bit before. It is a repurposed civic amenity on what was effectively a dump, and it has been repurposed into an excellent park with many tracks and routes. The difficulty is that initially it was not accessible by foot at all. It could only be accessed by car before it was subsequently opened at one side on the Half Moon Lane side on the Douglas end and, subsequently, in the past year or two by the opening of a bridge to the Grange side. Probably the neighbourhoods it is closest to are the areas of Ballyphehane and Turners Cross.”
“That is how it was understood. That is true right across the State. Where do we need to go from here? A pause is not enough. I hope the Minister understands that from this debate. We need to fundamentally begin from the proposition of what the modern SNA does, how crucial their role is and from there decide the appropriate allocation.”
“In all those contributions, I do not think anyone on any side of this House would say that we should go backwards or that we should constrain the SNA to the role they used to have at the outset of the proposal of the position. We all recognise that the role of the SNA has evolved a great deal in the past 20 or 30 years to what it is in this day and age. How absurd it is that the review was based on such tight criteria when we all know the role is far greater than that. That absurd approach led to a situation where schools such as that in Glasheen in my constituency were looking at four people potentially. As far as they were concerned, in terms of the way it was communicated, they would be out of a job and those children would not get the support they needed. The Minister is shaking her head but that is how it was communicated.”
“We have heard a lot today from all sides of the House. I know there are Government representatives who respect the role of SNAs and have engaged with them. We have heard a lot about the various things they do. So much of this hinges on the idea of primary care, the limitations there have been and how that has constrained the approach the Department has taken. We know the many ways in which they are crucial in assisting people with movement breaks, with education and with all of those healthcare needs. In so many respects, they keep the classroom together and keep the lid on so many behavioural issues. For a child who has ADHD and is under pressure, the assistance they get from an SNA ensures they are able to engage fully with their education.”
“I echo the point made by Deputy Mac Lochlainn on the very point of oversight, ensuring decent conditions and why public provision is so important. It is not acceptable that the Ombudsman for Children does not have access to many locations where children are in this State within the international protection system. This clearly needs to be addressed. It is very obvious gap and there is no justification for not addressing it.”
“I am sure the Minister, in response to this, might say something to the effect that yes, we can have discussions but there will be no perfect location. This is very obviously true but there will also be places that are wholly unsuitable, that are largely unsuitable and that are not the right location. The determinations and who makes them are further questions but clearly there will be locations that are wholly unsuitable. Yes, there will not be perfect locations but the very process of identifying what is in a location and what is present will also help to identify what is required in an area when a decision is made to locate such a centre there. Yes, there is no perfect solution but it is very clear that some of the locations chosen were entirely unsuitable.”
“Even now, in terms of what the Government is talking about, it has been evidently proven to be the case - this was documented for years and years before the Government decided to do anything about it - that public provision is more cost-effective and has better conditions for the residents them private provision. This has been the case for a long time. It has been evident. The Government has adopted this language but in truth the Government's strategy will still only amount to about one third of beds being publicly provided in the coming years. Two thirds of them will remain privately provided, will be more expensive, less able to be overseen and less likely to ensure the conditions are adequate. There needs to be a complete change in approach in what has been outlined here in terms of criteria and a strategy.”
“There were some such people in the community engagement teams and I acknowledge the work of Cork City Partnership and the hard work it did. Honestly, in some instances people stretched themselves very considerably to make up for the gaps that had been created at a national level. There were also people on the Department side, and I want to instance Eibhlin Byrne for the co-operation I received from her at stages. On the whole, community engagement was under-resourced and stretched beyond belief, and ultimately, the ability of communities to get answers and a sense of what was happening and have their say was not there at all.”
“I would say that it put public representatives, including Government representatives, in a very invidious position. In any kind of development, whether for a recycling centre, a bring site, a funeral home or a housing development, at least public representatives can have engagement with the community and tell them there is an opportunity for them to make their submissions, seek legal advice and do whatever they wish to do to engage with the process. There was no avenue in which to direct communities on how they could constructively have their say. This added to the sense of distrust and frustration that was there. In relation to the consultation, in so much as it was there, I will say that people were working hard.”
“The accommodation was located there without regard for education or transport, whether for the community as a whole or for new residents, asylum seekers and migrants, and whether for education, healthcare or anything like that. There seemed to be no reference to anything like that. There is a planning system in this country and it is there because it recognises that to have an orderly situation in a town, a village or a city, everything has its right place and should be located in a way that makes sense. A very difficult situation was created by the fact that when communities heard there was going to be a development or a use of property in their community, there was no opportunity for them to have their say in any way. There is nothing I can think of in the State where there is no opportunity for the community to have their say.”
“In many respects, as my colleague has said, they are the only criteria that seem to be considered. Many Government documents spoke about the need for criteria and the need for a strategy of some kind for this. It should obviously follow if there is going to be a situation whereby accommodation needs to be provided that there should be a strategy for where it should be located, there should be criteria and there should be logic. It did seem to be the case that the only logic was to find out what was available, regardless of where it was. In many instances it seemed to be in the most marginalised, peripheral and disadvantaged communities in the country.”
“There are so many examples of instances where what constituted consultation was simply an email, usually after the fact, sometimes just as a decision was being made and sometimes with incorrect or inadequate information. That created a vacuum. It created a situation that led to distrust, suspicion and hostility. Nothing in that lack of consultation and nothing in those failures can ever justify some of the actions that took place, including arson, intimidation and threats of violence. Nothing of that kind could ever be justified by a lack of consultation. However, it is the case that for the greater part of the community - those who wish to have nothing to do with that kind of behaviour - a huge vacuum was created. The Government has to take responsibility for that.”
“There has to be recognition at some stage at that the way in which - to call it "consultation" is to be very generous - was carried out was in many instances completely inadequate. I made a contribution on statements on international protection recently about the need for respect - respect for the rules, of course; respect for the residents and asylum seekers because it is absolutely essential that they be treated with dignity and respect at every stage; and respect for communities. To be honest, however, in many instances, respect for communities went completely out the window. My colleagues have given numerous instances on the matter.”
“There could be a see-saw effect, whereby at one stage the flow is in one direction and at another time it goes in the other direction. It should be possible to make headway with the British Government and persuade it of the need for an agreement on returns. That has not happened at this point in time. The space exists for it. Will the Minister of State give us an update as to when this is likely to take place?”
“It has been touched on for quite some time. The First Minister, Michelle O'Neill, has raised this issue. It is important that the Irish Government seek to persuade the British Government that it is in the interests of both countries to ensure there is an orderly process to ensure that people are returned in cases where they are unsuccessful in one jurisdiction and then seek to make an application in another or various other circumstances. Obviously, such returns must ensure that, to the greatest extent possible, people are treated with dignity and respect, but it is important that the returns happen in order to ensure that the system works. It should be possible to persuade the British Government that it is in nobody's interest not to reach an agreement. The flows can go in both directions.”
“This issue received a great deal of attention in mid-2024. At the time, the Government handed a bit of a gift to the Conservative Government in the UK by the way it communicated this, and the Conservative Government seized it with glee. The Government in Britain was under pressure at the time and tried to take every advantage to capitalise. The Irish Government is potentially in a different situation whereby it can perhaps make more headway in this area. The section on which we are seeking clarity relates to the ability of the Government to make decisions and designate a third country. For this to work to the greatest extent required, though, there needs to be a bilateral agreement with Britain. I hope that the Minister of State can provide me with an update on the progress of any such negotiations.”
“There is nearly no other country in the world that I can think of where the majority of the population is in exile in refugee camps. That is the case currently. The majority of the Sahrawi people are in refugee camps in southern Algeria. It is important that there is a referendum. It was promised decades ago back in the early nineties. That needs to progress. Ireland should insist on that. We must ensure that the rights of the Sahrawi people are not discarded through this process of the trade deal.”
“I had another question on this, which probably will not be reached. I have to say a couple of things. First, the Irish Government has historically had a strong position in relation to this. I ask the Minister of State to maintain that and to maintain support for Sahrawi self-determination. On a minor note - it may not be minor in some respects - I do not agree with the framing of the SADR as "the opposition". That implies that it is the opposition within Morocco. It is recognised by some countries as the legitimate government of Western Sahara. I do not believe that it is recognised at this point by the Irish Government, but it is recognised as a government. It is the legitimate representative of the Sahrawi people. The current situation is not sustainable.”
“Nobody should be targeted for their religion, whether they are Jewish, Muslim, Christian or any other, but it is important the we speak out against antisemitism.”
“I welcome the comments by the Minister of State and the question. It is important that support is provided for organisations such as the Auschwitz-Birkenau Foundation. The statistics from the survey are concerning. Unfortunately, they reflect similarly concerning findings, perhaps worse findings, in other jurisdictions. Clearly, it is important that the message goes out from all sides of these Houses that Holocaust denial or minimisation is appalling. We need to be very clear that the Holocaust happened at the scale at that it did and that it was an atrocity of a very particular and repugnant character. Human history should always record it and we in Ireland should acknowledge it. It is important that all sides of the House speak out against antisemitism, particularly in the context of incidents such as what happened on Bondi Beach.”
“He spoke about raising a number of questions. Perhaps he can clarify that. Questions can be raised, including about practical implementation. I am sure it is not going to be simple to do but it is doable, that is for sure.”
“It is very clear that the Spanish legislation goes into the area of services, the extent of which we can perhaps consider further. For example, due to the Spanish legislation, some rental companies been forced to remove the advertisement of the letting of properties in these occupied territories. Therefore, it is clearly having an effect. If EU law prevented member states from intervening in the area of services, that would be struck down. Obviously, any potential legislation can be challenged; anyone can choose to challenge any legislation. It is about whether it is currently robust enough. We need to get a sense of the advice of the Attorney General by whatever means the Minister of State can communicate this. It seems that the Minister of State is saying he is not necessarily prevented from doing so.”
“The Spanish Government announced it would ban trade with the settlements in September 2025 and two weeks later that passed fully into law. By the end of the year, it was being implemented, including in relation to services. If the Spanish Government can do it, and given that it is similarly subject to EU law, why can the Irish Government not put in place a similar ban?”
“That raises a few questions. On the implementation, I have never received a satisfactory answer to this. The practical effect of the implementation is very similar to the preparation that would have been required for the implementation of the similar ban on trade with the territories of Ukraine that are currently occupied by Russia. It is absolutely right that those sanctions were put in place, but the implementation would have been the same. Whether the vehicle is different is immaterial as to what preparations a company or the Government would have to make. That is completely immaterial and the same preparations for implementation would apply. The Government has been talking about this for about eight years.”
“The key principle that underlines the occupied territories Bill is that the International Court of Justice case clearly states that trade with those occupied territories is illegal. The position of the Department of foreign affairs and the Government has always been that we should not trade with these territories. I see no reason that there should not be a criminal sanction for those who choose to do that. It is very much in that realm. This is not necessarily about catching every transaction; it is about ensuring that where people do that, they can potentially face prosecution. Not being able to capture every incident can be true of any criminal act. This is why it is so important to have this legislation on the Statute Book.”
“On that last question, I might just say that individual cases do not necessarily preclude the Irish Government from representing a category generally speaking and that should always be the case. I cannot make up my mind as to what the Government intends to do with the occupied territories Bill. Does it intend to drop it entirely? Does it intend to water it down? Does it intend to put it on the long finger and maybe think about doing something later? I am not totally sure. However, I know it is vital. It represents the most obvious, practical and tangible way in which the Government can exert influence and can speak in the context of international law. I have more time that I expected in this first intervention.”
“In engagements at whatever level in the next couple of weeks with the US Administration, whether with the State Department or whatever, this should be on the agenda. On that technical point, as a principle, it is important that if the conflict is across the whole country, then particularly in places like Kordofan, the arms embargo needs to apply there too.”
“That would certainly be one of the asks. There are two layers to it. Obviously, the arms embargo is not fully effective by any means as things stand. We must always have hope but it is difficult not to be pessimistic when both actors in the conflict feel they can win and, therefore, the prospects for peace in that context are constrained. Dialogue needs to be at the centre of what the Government and the international community are calling for. There will be opportunities. We had a very interesting and harrowing hearing in the foreign affairs committee recently with experts and some aid organisations. The point was made that until this becomes a priority for either Europe or the United States this is unlikely to see the pressure that is required.”
“The major actor external actor, although not the only one, on the RSF side is the United Arab Emirates and I asked the Minister of State to raise his concerns directly on behalf of the Irish Government. Has he done that? The other element is the UN arms embargo. I understand it only applies to Darfur and not to the Kordofan and neighbouring regions where the conflict has very much spilled into.”
“I welcome the Minister of State's intention to visit. I am glad the Department officials have visited those refugees. The humanitarian situation on the ground could potentially escalate even further. Even if the UN reaches its appeal for €2.9 billion, that will only reach 20 million of the 33 million people needing humanitarian assistance. That is the scale of the humanitarian crisis, of hunger and of need, that is there. This is all escalating alongside a very significant conflict and slaughter, in many instances that is being encouraged by external actors, unfortunately. I have two points on that and I have raised this with the Minister of State before.”
“The Minister of State and I have spoken on a number of occasions in relation to the terrible situation in Sudan, which has seen tens if not hundreds of thousands of people killed, or certainly hundreds of thousands of people killed, in the past number of years. There has been the slaughter in El-Fasher. The conflict carries on unabated and there has been inadequate attention from the international community and inadequate pressure. There are steps Ireland as well as the international community can take. First, could the Minister give me an outline of the current position and actions? Actions must be taken by the Government on raising this issue and in continuing pressure in regard to this appalling conflict.”
“These new tenancies are going to be matched to market rents, as if market rents are not completely out of reach for a huge number of people. There are tenants out there who are paying €1,600, €1,700 and up to €2,000 in rent, depending on where they are. Some of them are paying childcare fees on top of that, along with a million other things. How are those people supposed to make ends meet? This creates an incentive for people to be moved out of properties and new tenancies established. In that case, in Cork, you are talking about a difference of €308 in the county as a whole and €278 in the city. Over the course of a year, that is thousands of euro. It is a huge blow to people. It makes no sense whatsoever.”
“Treating the two considerations as if they are roughly equivalent makes no sense to me. The rules should absolutely be fair, enforceable and applied. Resources are needed for that but to treat these considerations as one and the same is wrong. This legislation is based on an assumption that is completely untrue, which is that there is a functional market. There is no functional market. The rental market is completely dysfunctional. It is broken and has been for a really long time. The Minister of State is talking about the new tenancies that are going to be established. With the complications involved in these five new different types of tenancies, it will be impossible for landlords and tenants to work out what to do.”
“Two things occur to me in relation to this Bill, which I strongly oppose. It is a very dangerous Bill that will cause huge hardship for an awful lot of people. Listening to some of the contributions over the course of this afternoon, I have felt like I am in a parallel universe. The first thing to say is that there must be prioritisation here. There must be a recognition of what is fundamental here. I believe in rules that are fair and I believe that adequate resources should be provided to ensure that decisions are enforced where landlords have legitimate grievances. However, we are treating the two considerations as equal when these are people's homes. They are where people live. When they are evicted, they cannot find accommodation and potentially end up homeless for extended periods of time.”
“It needs to be true in terms of communities. Too often, their interests were discarded. Going forward, it also needs to be true in terms of the asylum seekers and migrants themselves. Decisions need to be made quickly but everyone needs to be treated with respect and get decent conditions, and there should be oversight of that too.”
“Our circumstances are very particular. We have, whether we like it or not - I certainly do not - a land border with another jurisdiction, a common travel area with a jurisdiction that is not in the EU, and we require the flexibility to respond to situations that arise because of that. It was foolish not to adjust and account for that. This is what the legislation is fundamentally about. There are elements of it that we could benefit from but I do not agree we needed to sign up to each and every element of it. The system such as it is certainly needs change. It is failing in terms of value for money. It is failing migrants, communities and the whole of society. Certainly, it needs change and significant investment as well as legislative change. The final thing I will say is in on respect. That needs to be true right across the system.”
“A little under two years ago, when the EU migration pact was being debated, it was an almost cavalier attitude by the Minister at the time. I understand that migration and the whole issue around international protection is complex. It was particularly challenging at the time when there was a significant increase. However, it seemed to be the attitude of the then Minister, in response to questions from me, not to consider at the time whether it might be wise for Ireland, in our very particular circumstances, not to opt into absolutely each and every element of it. As time goes on, and looking at the reflections of the justice committee, more and more people are coming to the conclusion that perhaps it was not wise for Ireland to sign up to each and every element of it. Ireland had the option to opt out purely because of our circumstances.”
“At the minute, it is not possible to remotely enforce traffic infringements, that is, we are going to have these bus gates that prevent people going back and forth from either side of them to facilitate bus prioritisation and to assist the bus in being the fastest vehicle. Unfortunately, unless we have digital remote enforcement of that, it will not work. People are going to go through the bus gates and it will snare up traffic. Legislation is needed to do this. That is something that would be cheap, easy and quick to do but this Government needs to do it to ensure that BusConnects can succeed.”
“The timelines are not anywhere near ambitious enough. It would be a huge mistake to look at only one route at the outset because it is very likely that there will be a need for a north-south line linking up heavily trafficked and heavily populated areas, such as Carrigaline and Douglas, through the city centre and through to parts of the northside. If it is not mapped out now and the process begun - we know it will not happen overnight - then it will be in 20 years. In relation to BusConnects, which is another important part in ensuring that public transport for Cork is fit for the 21st century, there is a legislative piece to this. Some of it is capital and some of it is engineering but there is a legislative piece.”
“There have been plans in recent years to do with the national development plan, the national spatial strategy and so on. What a lot of them have in common is the prediction that Cork is likely to be fastest growing urban area in the State over the course of the next 15 to 20 years. For that to happen and for Cork to reach its fullest potential, we know that the infrastructure is needed. More than that, we know that it cannot simply be putting more cars on the road. Public transport is going to be crucially important in Cork. What Cork needs is more of the key personnel on the ground. It is crucially important that we have these national organisations but we need TII, NTA and Irish Rail people on the ground all the time from a national delivery point of view. One of the major public transport projects we are looking is the Cork Luas.”