Jim O'Callaghan
Dublin Bay South · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“This relates to section 69 of the Bill as passed by Dáil Éireann, which amends Schedule 5 to the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 to add the Courts Service to the Schedule.”
“The first four amendments in this group are minor drafting corrections. They corrected the wording in four places so that the Bill reads consistently. It is changing the word "references" to "a reference". They make no change to the substance or effect of the Bill.”
“The ARP scheme was introduced in July 2022 to recognise the generosity of members of the public who opened their houses, whether in their entirety or through the provision of a room, at their own expense to provide shelter to people displaced by the Ukraine war. The Department of Social Protection administers the scheme on my behalf.”
“I have no doubt it will be challenged, and I have to be able to convince a court, if it is being challenged, that this legislation weighs up conflicting interests and recognises there is a mechanism for somebody who has reformed himself to get off the register.”
“The scheme has been a lifeline for people from Ukraine displaced by the conflict, given high rental market rates and scarcity of rental accommodation.”
“I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle in the first instance for presiding over these Stages of the legislation. I am very pleased that this legislation has been enacted. I want to thank a few people very briefly. I thank Deputy McAuliffe for introducing me to Jason Poole. I thank Senator O'Loughlin for her work on this issue in the Seanad.”
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“I agree on Teach Tearmainn. It is in a very peaceful location at the end of a quiet road. It is something I am very pleased my Department has been funding. Last year my Department provided funding to Teach Tearmainn of €930,000. It will be funded again this year with probably an increase on that. While Kildare has not been identified as a priority for new refuge construction in this current phase, Cuan is aware of this as a location for consideration in future. I will engage with the Deputy on this. The demand for these services is very significant, regrettably, but they are needed for short-term refuge spaces for women fleeing domestic abuse. As I will say in my response to the next question, we cannot develop a situation where the default position is that women who are the victims of abuse leave the house while the abuser remains there.”
“We need to take a broad look at the work Cuan is doing. It is working towards having a minimum of 50 new refuge units under construction across multiple sites this year. Last year the number of safe homes increased by eight which increased the total safe-home capacity to 60. It is working to increase that capacity to 94. That means that by the end of 2026, we aim to increase the number of safe accommodation spaces, refuges and safe homes to 287. I will come back to the Deputy on the priority phase 2 development issue he raised in terms of timelines. The priority list for phase 2 development has a timeline but a lot of it is about identifying a suitable location. Sometimes that can be difficult to identify. I hear what the Deputy says about Naas.”
“The number increased by 13, with four in Louth and nine in Dublin, bringing the total number to 172 refuges. Additionally, another nine units have been developed in Dublin 22 and further units are being developed. I will liaise with Cuan in respect of ensuring Kildare is adequately serviced.”
“Between them the objective is to try to identify and ensure there are refuges or, indeed, safe homes, which are of use also, around the country to ensure there is sufficient refuge space and safe home space for people fleeing domestic violence. The Deputy’s specific question was around whether another location in Kildare could be identified. While Kildare has not been identified as a priority location for new refuge construction in the current phase, Cuan is considering it as a location for consideration in future refuge development programmes and is supportive of ensuring Kildare is on the priority list for phase 2 development. A lot of work is being done around ensuring new refuge spaces are established. A lot were established last year.”
“I thank Deputy Ó Cearúil for his question. I have also visited Teach Tearmainn. It is a wonderful refuge in County Kildare but, like very many of the refuges that have been established, it is obviously under pressure in terms of meeting the demand for its services, unfortunately. Cuan is instrumentally part of funding to ensure that we can provide refuges and safe homes for predominantly women who are fleeing domestic violence. We are now increasing funding for Cuan, which is within my Department, up to €80 million per year. It is a very important function that is carried out within my Department. Obviously, there is collaboration between Cuan and a series of stakeholders, whether local authorities, the Department of housing and housing agencies.”
“I am not going to do that. I hear the point the Deputy is making. We will benefit from having enacted legislation in both jurisdictions that allows for an independent quasi-judicial inquiry into and investigation of Troubles-related killings.”
“I am going to conclude on a point of harmony. The Deputy makes a valid point. We do not want people to be selecting individual atrocities for the purpose of investigation. That is what the legacy framework is about. It will predominantly deal with Troubles-related killings. Those are the ones that have to be prioritised in the context of families that have not got justice yet and where there have been no prosecutions let alone convictions. There has been political agreement, but I would like to see legislative co-ordination between both jurisdictions to allow Troubles-related killings to be inquired into. Inquiries would focus on killings that happened during certain periods, and we would not have to decide who would get a public inquiry. The call from the Irish Council for Civil Liberties related to an inquiry in respect of Sallins.”
“The issue in that regard relates to a robbery occurred 50 years ago. Two people had their convictions overturned in 1980. A presidential pardon was given to a third person in 1992. Financial settlements were subsequently made. I want to focus on where justice has not been delivered.”
“The Deputy has fallen into the trap that I identified earlier. It is difficult not to do that. He stated that the actions of the Garda heavy gang need to be addressed. The murders carried out by the Provisional IRA also need to be addressed. The Deputy referred to Eddie Fullerton, a Sinn Féin councillor who was brutally murdered. The murder of Billy Fox, a Member of these Houses, needs to be addressed. The murder of Robert Bradford needs to be addressed. We cannot be selective about which atrocity we want to focus upon. That is why the legacy framework that has been agreed to by both Governments is welcome. The Deputy mentioned the Sallins train robbery. I have already given a response on that matter. I am not going to have a public inquiry in respect of it. If it comes within the parameters of the legacy issues in due course, so be it.”
“In May, I will bring forward a general scheme to Government in respect of corresponding inquiries here. The Garda Commissioner established a Troubles legacy liaison unit at the beginning of the year. That is an important development.”
“It is important to say that there is no de facto moratorium or amnesty in this jurisdiction in respect of any murders or serious criminal activities that took place during the Troubles in Northern Ireland. That does not happen. There are many serious events that occurred that have still not been resolved. People have not got justice in respect of them. From speaking to An Garda Síochána and officials within my Department, I know that the relevant files remain open. There has been progress recently. The framework agreement between the two Governments has given rise to a commitment that there a statutory regime to deal with Troubles-related killings, as they are referred to, or incidents will be put in place. That legislation, as the Deputy knows, is going through the Houses of Parliament in the UK.”
“We need to be balanced about this matter. Obviously, there are legacy issues arising from the Troubles in Northern Ireland. The Deputy mentioned the Garda heavy gang. We also have to acknowledge that murders carried out by the Provisional IRA give rise to legacy issues that need to be resolved. One of the inadequacies of the Good Friday Agreement is that it does not really deal with legacy issues at all. Governments have been grappling with this matter since then. Regrettably, and this applies in many instances, legacy is being used as a political tool. However, we do have to try to deal with legacy issues. Where there are historical offences, it is important that we try to resolve them.”
“Ours is not a society that is at the higher echelons of incarceration, either in Europe or across the wider world. We have a moderate view in terms of who needs to be incarcerated. As the Deputy knows, however, there are debates in this House on a variety of issues, including that of victims saying that they want justice, and justice sometimes requires incarceration.”
“I do not agree that it is tantamount to torture. Like the Deputy, I have visited the majority of prisons. I have visited seven, and I will be visiting another one very shortly that I have not visited already. There is a lot of excellent work going on in prisons. Many people who come out of prison do not go on to offend again. That is particularly the case in respect of serious offences. I am well aware that there are people in prison who, because of addiction issues or chaotic lives, do go on to commit further offences. That is a challenge in terms of how it can be responded to. I engaged with the Inspector of Prisons, Mr. Kelly, and had a good conversation with him in respect of this issue. At present, we have about 5,800 people in prison. We have a population of 5.5 million.”
“With regard to what the Deputy has said about deportations, I recognise the pressures this puts on the prison system. Perhaps we need a separate place where people who are going to be subject to enforced deportation can be detained. That is something I will look at.”
“To deal with the issue of the report, that report will be published this week. I only got to look at it in the past ten days or so. I have approved it and it will be published this week. On the other measures that can be put in place, I do not believe prisons are the solution to all of the ills of society. We obviously need a combined approach in respect of these issues. The Probation Service plays a very important role. This year, it is providing over €21 million in funding to 60 community organisations to cover the costs of providing services and programmes. Probation obviously plays a big role. When this House enacts the miscellaneous provisions Bill, it will provide for the greater use of community sanctions and community service orders.”
“The pilot is located in Limerick women’s prison and I am advised that, to date, over 50 women have accessed the scheme, with approximately 25 successful completions. An evaluation of the programme is under way. I will give the Deputy further information on my proposals when I respond to him again.”
“There are plans to build another 65 spaces across the prison system in 2026, 26 of which will be new spaces for the Dóchas Centre. That will increase capacity to 172. As I have indicated previously, I have got approval from Government to develop further prison spaces between 2026 and 2030. The projects that I have got approval for include an extension to Rowan House at the Dóchas Centre that is expected to accommodate 50 female prisoners. There has to be some recognition that more spaces are required. That is my response in respect of that. An awful lot of work is also being done to ensure that services are provided to facilitate women in availing of supervised temporary release. A scheme is being run by the Irish Prison Service to support the needs of women who are transitioning from prison to the community.”
“I thank Deputy Gannon very much for his question. I am concerned about overcrowding in the Dóchas Centre, the female prison in Mountjoy. To make the House aware of some statistics regarding the centre, as of yesterday, there were 223 women in custody in Mountjoy, 29 of whom were on mattresses. The centre's bed capacity is 146. I am concerned about this. I previously said that I do not have the same level of concern in respect of the women's prison in Limerick, which I know the Deputy has visited. That is true because, as I am sure the Deputy will appreciate, that is a very modern prison. What is the solution to this? Part of the solution has to be creating more spaces within the Dóchas Centre. I am not saying that is the only solution but it must be part of it.”
“I cannot just charter a flight, land it in the UK and say "Here you are". Co-operation with the UK is required. I have a very good relationship with the Home Secretary. There is recognition of the issues that arise in respect of the common travel area and there will be an agreed response from the Irish and UK Governments. It is a difficult challenge. Can the Deputy come up with a simple response to it? I am not being facetious but the only way to stop it is to put a hard border on the island and we do not want to do that.”
“At present, the UK is designated by me as a safe third country. That designation was done on the basis of an assessment. By 12 June, I will designate it as a safe third country under the new legislation, provided I get the assessment. There is no reason to think the assessment will change. Circumstances in Britain have not changed since I previously designated it as a safe third country. On the impact of this measure, under the legislation, certain applications from people who come from a safe third country will be inadmissible. It will also be possible to return people to a safe third country. As the Deputy will know, when it comes to the deportations that take place and that have taken place, I can only deport or remove people to countries that are prepared to receive them.”
“We also need to recognise that I have discussed the issue of data sharing with the British Home Secretary and will reach agreement with her on that. That is extremely important in resolving abuses of the common travel area, as are operational measures between An Garda Síochána, the Police Service of Northern Ireland and Border Force. As to getting a written agreement with the British, I cannot force the British Government to enter into an agreement to take back asylum applicants from the Republic.”
“The basis upon which we think the greatest number of those claiming asylum in Ireland are coming from the UK is the number arriving at the International Protection Office. This year, 90% of people who have claimed asylum in Ireland did so at the IPO. That leads us to believe they are coming across the Border with Northern Ireland. It is a huge challenge whether we are in the migration pact or not. The simplistic view sometimes put forward is that if we had not gone into the migration pact, we would not have this issue. We would have this issue because of our land border with the United Kingdom and the common travel area. We need to emphasise that people who are not citizens of Ireland, the UK or the Channel Islands are not allowed to travel back and forth across the Border on the island of Ireland.”
“I have engaged with the British Home Secretary on the measures that will be introduced, such as data sharing and operational measures. As the Deputy knows, Operation Sonnet is ongoing.”
“It is fair to say, without being too critical of the UK, that this policy has not worked. In order to be able to combat abuse of the common travel area or asylum mechanisms, countries need to work harmoniously with each other. That is why working within the EU is the best approach from Ireland's point of view. The number of asylum applications in the EU last year were down by 20%. In Ireland, they were down by 30%. They were only down by 4% in the UK. At present, as the Deputy will be aware, the UK is designated by me a safe third country. Once the legislation commences on 12 June, it will again be designated as a safe third country. As I have repeatedly stated, movement in the common travel area between Northern Ireland and the Republic is not permitted for people who are not citizens.”
“I thank the Deputy for his very opportune question. Last Friday, at the UK-Ireland Summit 2026 in Cork, I had a discussion with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Hilary Benn, in respect of the common travel area, the new legislation that we are going to enact here and the need to ensure that there will be no abuse of the common travel area. Regrettably, we do see the latter between this jurisdiction and Northern Ireland. Last month, I had a discussion by way of a remote meeting with the Home Secretary, Shabana Mahmood. At that meeting, we had a very extensive discussion about issues relating to asylum, the common travel area and other matters of mutual interest. As the Deputy knows, the UK is not only not part of the EU asylum pact, it also decided to leave the EU and go it alone.”
“Also, increasing the mandatory retirement age to 62 has had a very positive impact. I have a very good relationship with all of the associations. They are very co-operative. Like me and, I presume, the Deputy, they want to see what is best for An Garda Síochána and the Irish public.”
“Overtime is always an integral part of the service provided by An Garda Síochána. Every year, there are major events that have to be policed. I have spoken extensively to the Commissioner about the commitments arising from the EU Presidency and the Ireland-Israel soccer match. Whatever happens, the Commissioner has informed me that there will be resources available to police these events. We want to get as many people as we can into An Garda Síochána. A number of significant changes made in recent times have had a really positive impact. I refer, in particular, to changing the recruitment cut-off age from 35 years to 50. We are now seeing people who are in their 40s and in sedentary careers wanting the excitement of a career in An Garda Síochána. These individuals are joining the force.”
“On a visit to Cork last week, I heard a very positive account of extra Garda visibility. The same applies in Limerick, as the Minister of State, Deputy Collins, will attest to. A huge amount of work is being done to get the numbers up. That work will continue.”
“We can agree on one thing, namely that it is heading in the right direction. It is certainly improving. The fact that we have seen the highest number of gardaí attesting in seven years is a very positive story from the point of view of the Irish public. The Deputy is correct in stating that we ran two recruitment campaigns, in which there was huge interest, last year. We got 11,000 people expressing an interest in applying to join. We are processing those applications much faster. The fact that we got 223 new recruits into Templemore in December is a really positive story. If we can consistently get numbers like that, we will see attestations coming up to the figure of 1,000 and to more than that in the future. The reason we want to do this, as the Deputy will be aware, is because people want to see more gardaí on the streets.”
“Recruitment is going in the right direction. The Deputy used the phrase "recruitment and retention crisis". There is no such crisis. In fact, even the representative associations do not now refer to a crisis. Resignations from An Garda Síochána are really low. Last year, 141 members of the force resigned. That is less than 1%. This is remarkably small when compared with nearby jurisdictions. I know recruitment is going in the right direction because in December, we took in 223 new recruits into Templemore. This is the highest it has been in years. If I can get up to 225 or 250 on each intake, we will get to where we want to be.”
“The number of people we have in An Garda Síochána is extremely important from the point of view of enforcing the law. It is probably the most important part of the functions carried out by us, as Ministers, to ensure that the law we make in this House is enforced. At present, there is a workforce of approximately 18,000 in An Garda Síochána. This includes 14,397 attested members, 3,527 Garda staff and 308 Garda reserves. Last year, 619 gardaí attested from the Garda College, which, I am pleased to say, was the highest number in seven years. If the Deputy wants to look at this from the point of view of the year of the date of appointment of the Government in January 2025, he will note as well that there was an extra attestation in February of this year, which brought the number who attested up to 786.”
“I commend Senator Murphy particularly on the fact that this issue will now get coverage as a result of introducing this legislation. It is very important that Senators and Deputies introduce legislation. That is our primary function. Let us recognise it by introducing legislation in which we highlight an issue of real concern to our constituents. I will work with Senator Murphy and other Senators in respect of the Bill to try to polish it up so we can achieve the ultimate objective we all want.”
“I do not have the written advice of the Attorney General yet, but I know from speaking to him about matters similar to this that he has a concern in respect of frailties, whereby if legislation does not include presumptive and exceptional grounds to depart from a minimum sentence, the courts could strike it down. I have to be frank with Senators that there is a constitutional frailty in respect of the Bill. Senator Boyhan may have alluded to this earlier. We need to ensure that we do not enact something that will create an easy victory for individuals being prosecuted before the courts under our new law who would be allowed to take a constitutional action which, in all likelihood, would succeed. This does not mean we cannot work together in respect of this legislation. A lot of good work has gone into it.”
“The Bill, and Senator Byrne will be of assistance in drafting these amendments, will require a provision that states there may be exceptional circumstances in which the court can depart from the mandatory minimum sentence. If we do not do this, and if we proceed to enact it, my fear is that what will happen is what happened in the Wayne Ellis case. So Members are aware, back in 2019 the Supreme Court struck down a non-discretionary five-year minimum sentence on a limited group of offenders as unconstitutional. This was the Wayne Ellis case.”
“I have to point out that some people who would be subject to a mandatory minimum sentence may not be the people directing the crime and we need to recognise there could be serious gangland figures directing the theft of work equipment. They are the ones the criminal justice system wants to target. Where minimum sentences are used, they are generally prescribed on a presumptive basis, where judges may impose a lower sentence if exceptional and specific circumstances make it appropriate to do so. The Bill Senator Murphy is putting forward does not do this. My recommendation, and I will liaise with colleagues in respect of this, is that in order to be enacted the Bill will require amendments, including an amendment to refer to a presumptive sentence.”
“We entrust the courts with the responsibility of determining what is an appropriate sentence based on the facts of the cases before them. The courts will take into account aggravating or mitigating circumstances. As I am sure Senator Murphy and others will appreciate, there may be examples of people who have been involved in the theft of work equipment where their responsibility is much more egregious than is the case of other individuals who are minnows and who were put up to it by more senior figures. We know that minimum sentences are used sparingly. It would be a change to impose a mandatory minimum sentence in respect of a work equipment theft offence, the gravity of which is unknown.”
“As a starting point, the setting by the Oireachtas of minimum rather than maximum sentences is very much the exception. We need to be aware of this when we are dealing with the Bill. Sometimes mandatory sentences are applied. We apply them for murder. If somebody is convicted of murder, they face a mandatory sentence of life imprisonment. We also have mandatory minimum sentencing in respect of certain drugs offences. What was noticeable in the case of Wayne Ellis, which was a case where the Supreme Court struck down a mandatory sentence of five years for possession of guns, was that there were indications that presumptive sentencing is something we can do as an Oireachtas. However, we know the courts are very defensive when it comes to what they see as unnecessary or unlawful interference by the Oireachtas in their sentencing prerogative.”
“Effective prevention, strong community engagement and targeted enforcement are all essential components of tackling these offences and supporting those who are affected by them. I will now make some observations in respect of the Bill. As I have said, the Government will not oppose it and it will go through with Government support. I want to make some observations that I hope will be taken constructively, as what we do not want to do is enact legislation that will be struck down by the courts. Senator Byrne alluded to what happened in the Wayne Ellis case. These are some recommendations I have in respect of the Bill and I will get legal advice from the Attorney General in respect of this. The Bill provides for a mandatory minimum sentence and does not provide discretion for the sentencing court to not apply this minimum.”
“The plan identifies four key priority areas of focus: community safety and engagement, property crime, roads policing and animal welfare crime. Through structures such as the national rural safety forum, community alert schemes and the development of new community safety partnerships, An Garda Síochána is continuing to listen to and work closely with communities to build safer places in which to live and work across the country. It is encouraging to see the positive impact these collaborative initiatives are already having in strengthening safety and confidence in our communities. Taken together, these initiatives demonstrate that the response to theft and burglary is not confined to legislation alone.”
“These initiatives are frequently promoted through An Garda Síochána’s community networks and social media channels, and they represent a practical way of helping people to safeguard equipment such as tools that are essential to their livelihoods. These measures also sit within a broader policy framework aimed at improving safety in rural communities. The rural safety plan, launched last September by the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, brings together and strengthens the various strands of work being carried out in relation to rural safety. The plan was developed by my Department in conjunction with the national rural safety forum, and its vision is to ensure that people and communities in rural Ireland both feel safe and are safe in their homes, their places of work and their wider local environments.”
“The property app developed by the Garda allows individuals to record and index items such as bicycles, laptops, tools and farm machinery. The app enables users to record identifying information associated with their property, which can be extremely helpful in the event that items are stolen and later recovered. It also provides a simple way of reporting stolen property to the Garda. The application is free to download and forms part of a broader effort to support property marking and traceability. In addition, local community policing units regularly organise property-marking engagement days, as has been mentioned, where members of the public can bring valuable items to be marked and registered.”
“Alongside enforcement activity, the Garda also places a strong emphasis on crime prevention and public awareness. Members across the organisation promote preventative measures in their day-to-day engagement with communities, and there are also Garda members who are specifically trained to carry out the role of crime prevention officer. These officers provide expert advice to individuals, businesses and community groups on practical steps that can be taken to reduce the risk of theft and burglary. Importantly, there is now a crime prevention officer attached to each Garda division, ensuring that this expertise is available to communities throughout the State. There are also practical tools available to assist members of the public in protecting their property. Many of them have been mentioned by Senators this evening.”
“One of the most significant is Operation Thor, which was launched in 2015 - it is has now been in place for over ten years - and was designed to target organised crime groups through co-ordinated enforcement activity, intelligence-led policing and crime prevention measures informed by the latest burglary trends. Over the decade since Operation Thor was introduced, burglary and related offences have declined significantly, demonstrating the impact that sustained and targeted policing operations can have in addressing these types of crimes. I know Senators here will agree with me and be aware that we can change the law, but the most important factor to deter or detect criminal activity is that the Garda is fully resourced and active in the community to ensure that if these crimes occur, people are brought to justice promptly.”
“I was interested to hear what Senator Murphy had to say in respect of the individual with 26 former convictions who received a suspended sentence. Obviously, it is sentences like that, although we do not know the detail of it, that make Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas want to come forward with stronger legislation because where we do see recidivist offenders, we want to make sure they are sent a message that their ongoing repeat offending will not be tolerated by the State. As Senators will know, the Garda operates a number of crime prevention initiatives, many of which have been spoken about here, and proactive policing operations specifically aimed at burglary and related offences.”
“We also need to examine, and it is very important to hear, the evidence of Senators from the areas they are from and the impact this crime is having on their local communities. There are also official statistics from the Central Statistics Office that show there has been a decrease in reported incidents of robbery, burglary and theft-related offences in general. The incidence of theft of farming equipment also indicates a decline in such offences. Simply because there is a decline in incidence or reportage, that does not mean this matter cannot be dealt with legislatively or that it requires the consideration of the Oireachtas. At the same time, it is important to point out that operational data provided by the Garda shows an increase in charges for these offences. This is, in part, as a result of targeted operations and initiatives.”
“Under the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, a provision provides for a maximum sentence of ten years' imprisonment in the case of offences of theft and the handling of stolen property. Where a work equipment theft involves a burglary, the maximum sentence is 14 years, and in the case of robbery and aggravated burglary, the maximum sentence is life imprisonment. When imposing sentences, judges are not limited to considering the monetary value of the work equipment. They also are entitled to take into account the impact the theft had on the individual's work life and the emotional distress caused as a result of it, and those are factors that should be taken into account by judges when they are determining sentences.”
“As public representatives, we regularly deal with constituents who have been the victims of such crimes, and the distress caused is evident. I think there is a shared understanding across the House of the importance of this issue and the Government will not be opposing the Bill. I am very much encouraged by the fact that across the House there is broad recognition that this issue needs to be identified, highlighted and if possible responded to with legislation. I would also like to identify some issues in respect of where we are at present in terms of legislation that exists. It is very important that as lawmakers in this House and in the Lower House we are aware of what laws are there before we start considering or enacting further laws. As Senators will be aware, there are already property offences that apply to work equipment theft.”
“There is an anxiety that comes with being targeted, work is delayed, contracts are jeopardised and in some cases individuals find themselves unable to continue working at all. For small contractors, farmers and self-employed tradespeople, the cost of replacing equipment can run to many thousands of euro and it can have a devastating impact on the businesses that many people have spent years building up. It is a particularly pernicious type of criminal offence since it targets somebody right in his or her job. One of the Senators mentioned earlier that when you target the belongings and equipment a person requires to do their job, you are really attacking the integrity of that person as well. That is before we even consider the loss of income and insurance cost implications that arise from this.”
“I thank Senators P.J. Murphy, Duffy and Kennelly for bringing forward this important legislation. It is also very useful to hear of the direct experience of Senator Murphy arising from his work as a joiner. Sometimes people do not realise the direct experience Members of the Seanad and Dáil have and it is very important we hear Senator Murphy's direct experience given that he has worked in that area for so long. We all know the theft of tools and work equipment has serious repercussions. For many tradespeople, whether they be plumbers, joiners like Senator Murphy, electricians, carpenters, mechanics and other skilled workers, the tools of their trade are not simply possessions; they are essential to earning a livelihood. When those tools are stolen, the impact is immediate and profound.”