Jim O'Callaghan
Dublin Bay South · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“This relates to section 69 of the Bill as passed by Dáil Éireann, which amends Schedule 5 to the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 to add the Courts Service to the Schedule.”
“The first four amendments in this group are minor drafting corrections. They corrected the wording in four places so that the Bill reads consistently. It is changing the word "references" to "a reference". They make no change to the substance or effect of the Bill.”
“The ARP scheme was introduced in July 2022 to recognise the generosity of members of the public who opened their houses, whether in their entirety or through the provision of a room, at their own expense to provide shelter to people displaced by the Ukraine war. The Department of Social Protection administers the scheme on my behalf.”
“I have no doubt it will be challenged, and I have to be able to convince a court, if it is being challenged, that this legislation weighs up conflicting interests and recognises there is a mechanism for somebody who has reformed himself to get off the register.”
“The scheme has been a lifeline for people from Ukraine displaced by the conflict, given high rental market rates and scarcity of rental accommodation.”
“I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle in the first instance for presiding over these Stages of the legislation. I am very pleased that this legislation has been enacted. I want to thank a few people very briefly. I thank Deputy McAuliffe for introducing me to Jason Poole. I thank Senator O'Loughlin for her work on this issue in the Seanad.”
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“I want to dispute the Deputy's categorisation of my colleague, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, in terms of her role in the previous Government. It was the policy of the previous Government and the previous Government made a decision to change that policy. It is unfair of the Deputy to focus on her individually. In regard to challenging hate speech, it is important to point out that, as I said earlier, simply because there is not new legislation being put in place does not mean there is not legislation in place. Since 1989 we have had the Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act. It exists in our law. We have a common law that provides for circumstances where aiding and abetting of criminal offences is also a criminal offence. The law covers this area.”
“Combining those two statutory provisions and taking into account the common law operating in Ireland, particularly the common law principles in respect of aiding and abetting, I am satisfied the Council framework decision has been fully transposed into Irish law. Notwithstanding the fact that it is transposed into Irish law, there is a responsibility on all of us to ensure the type of hate-filled messages we hear, regrettably frequently, are challenged and called out. We do not always need a guard or court available to challenge somebody on their behaviour.”
“The Deputy will be aware that last year the House enacted legislation to provide for tougher sentences for crimes motivated by hate. That was the Criminal Justice (Hate Offences) Act 2024. This was sensible legislation that provided for increased prison sentences for certain crimes where they are proven to be motivated by hatred or where hatred is demonstrated. For approximately 36 years, we have had the Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act 1989. That provides general protections in respect of those who seek to incite violence and hatred against others because of their inherent characteristics.”
“No, but I will give the Deputy an overview of why that is the answer. I am fairly satisfied that Ireland has transposed the European Council framework decision on combating certain forms and expressions of racism and xenophobia in a manner appropriate and tailored to the domestic system of law in Ireland. I assure Members of the House that Ireland's position has been communicated to the European Commission. That position is that the framework decision is fully transposed in Irish legislation in a manner appropriate and tailored to the domestic system of criminal law and procedure, and is in line with Article 40.6 of the Constitution, which expressly respects and protects the right to freedom of expression and of people to express their views freely.”
“I believe when we are down in Templemore again in November we will be close to seeing approximately 200, or maybe just less than 200, new recruits coming out. That is going to be very positive. If we can get a constant stream of approximately 200 new recruits from each intake, we will be in a strong position to ensure more community gardaí around the country.”
“I will certainly speak to the Garda Commissioner in respect of it. I am aware of the point the Deputy makes about community gardaí. Obviously this type of technology is no replacement for them, but it is of great assistance to them and complements the work being done by them. I assure the Deputy that the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, Deputy Cleere and the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor, have also been on to me about wanting more Garda resources in Carlow-Kilkenny. As Deputy Callaghan indicated, there was a large group of individuals who came out of Templemore recently. It is not for me to determine where new recruits are allocated, but it has been made loud and clear in respect of all constituencies that all TDs want to see as many new recruits coming into areas as possible.”
“However, we can all agree the more information provided to An Garda Síochána and indeed the general public in respect of threatening or antisocial behaviour, the easier it will be to combat that because Garda resources can then be focused on it.”
“I thank the Deputy. I certainly think this is the type of initiative local community safety partnerships should be considering. As she will be aware, they are being rolled out. I approved the membership of a whole series of them over a week ago and I want to see those local community safety partnerships up and running in communities as quickly as possible. The type of technology we are talking about with this initiative is very simple. It is just providing information to An Garda Síochána in respect of incidents around the country. I am very pleased the scheme is operating in each of the four Garda regions. I understand the feasibility of scaling the initiative to other areas is being explored by the Garda. It will be subject to an evaluation of the existing schemes with a view to informing future policy and a possible expanded roll-out.”
“Decisions related to the expansion of the initiative will be for the Garda Commissioner. I understand that the feasibility of scaling the initiative to other areas is being explored. This will be subject to an evaluation of the operation of the existing schemes.”
“This is a free text message which will be received by the sergeant on duty in the local station and the report acted upon. It also allows for the public to report incidents anonymously. It is a very positive measure because it enables gardaí to be provided with information spontaneously and on a very immediate basis. It is impossible for us to ensure we have a garda on every street corner or in every village, but using communication methods in this way is very helpful to ensuring gardaí are informed of threats in the area. The Deputy may be aware a successful pilot scheme was operated in Kerry in 2019. An Garda Síochána purchased the rights to the system, as well as the short code that is the number used by the public. The initiative has since been replicated in Swords in 2020 and in Drogheda and Longford town since 2023.”
“I thank the Deputy for her question. As colleagues are aware, the Garda National Community Engagement Bureau operates See Something, Say Something. It is an initiative that uses a text messaging system to allow members of the public to alert the Garda to any issue that might be of concern. It is a very positive development. Technology can be used very effectively for the purpose of keeping communities safe. We all see, maybe, WhatsApp groups in communities. That sharing of information is beneficial to ensure there is greater awareness of any safety issue in an area. Pursuant to this scheme, members of the public can use any mobile phone to immediately report a crime or any incident of anti-social behaviour by simply texting a brief account of the incident and the location to a short code number.”
“The way to end that though is not releasing prisoners, but building more units so they can have more dignified places in which they are accommodated when in the prison system. That is something we need to expedite and we are committed to do so.”
“The Deputy recognises our population is increasing at such a rate it is inevitable we are going to have to increase the number of prison units available. Last year our population increased by 98,000 and this year it is probably going to somewhere similar. When the population increases we expect there is going to be an increase in the prison population as well because there is going to be an increase in criminal activity and in detection and conviction. On the prisons themselves, the big challenge I and my colleagues face is the prisons suffer from overcapacity. There is approximately 117% capacity in prisons at present. That means there are many prisoners who are sleeping on mattresses on floors. I am committed to ending that.”
“It is not our job to judge them again; the system has judged them, but we want to try to ensure that as well as their penalty being served, they are prepared for release into the community. There is excellent work being done to ensure people are so prepared.”
“I agree with the Deputy. There are certain types of offenders who have been convicted and who require incarceration. The justice system has directed that they be incarcerated, and the Irish Prison Service does not have an option. It must take in people on whom the courts have imposed custodial sentences. Since I became Minister, I have visited seven prisons. I am extremely impressed at the work that goes on in prisons throughout the country. The Irish Prison Service does an excellent job, as does the Probation Service and other services that operate within our prison system. They are challenging visits. I always make sure I have an opportunity to speak to staff and the prisoners as well. A lot of good work is being done to prepare individuals for coming out of prison. Those individuals have already been judged by the justice system.”
“This is expected to speed up delivery timelines by 12 to 18 months. The Prison Service has a very good record when it comes to building on time and on budget. The estate section of the Irish Prison Service is very good.”
“A record capital investment of €495 million is being provided to the Irish Prison Service over the next five years which will provide for the largest investment in the prison estate in the history of the State. This includes a new prison on the site of the old Cork prison, a new block in Wheatfield, both of which I visited, an additional block extension at the Midlands Prison, which I hope to visit soon, and additional spaces at Castlerea, Mountjoy and Dóchas. It is important to point out that a new mental health therapeutic centre is also planned for Mountjoy. I thank the Minister for Health for her co-operation in that respect. In consultation with the Minister for Finance, I secured an exemption under the infrastructure guidelines to allow for the delivery of 960 new places to be accelerated.”
“Our population has risen significantly over the past 20 years but our prison capacity has not risen on a corresponding basis. There is a requirement to ensure that we have more prison spaces. This does not mean that I or the Government believe the solution to all antisocial or criminal behaviour is incarceration. We recognise, however, that prisons need a greater number of spaces because of the increased level of detection, the increase in the population and the increase in the type of criminal activities the Houses of the Oireachtas have designated as criminal acts. Since 2022, capacity across the prison estate has been increased by 380 new spaces. The target is to deliver 1,595 individual prison spaces by 2031.”
“When it comes to the national development plan and capital projects relating to courthouses and Garda stations, there are many Deputies who are as eloquent and committed as Deputy Aird in making requests. They say to me that the projects in their areas need to prioritised. I cannot prioritise them all, but I hear what the Deputy is saying.”
“I agree with the Deputy. We need to develop a situation where prison officers are not used frequently throughout the day for the purpose of transporting prisoners from prisons to courts. I will bring forward legislation later this year, in the form of a miscellaneous provisions Bill, in which we will seek to give effect to that for many more remote hearings. People can have their hearings from the prison where they are being held on remand rather than being transferred by prison officers to a courthouse for that purpose. It makes sense if there is a strong prison, like the Midlands Prison in Portlaoise, to ensure that here is a correspondingly suitable courthouse in the vicinity. There is a courthouse in Portlaoise. The Deputy has urged eloquently that it needs to be upgraded, refurbished or replaced. I will take that on board.”
“I understand why legal practitioners and representatives such as Deputy Aird want a new courthouse there. It is in the plan. I cannot give a commitment as to when the project will start.”
“I agree with Deputy Aird. Courthouses can have a positive impact on a town or city. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle will know the impact a new courthouse can have on a city like Kilkenny. They attract people who come as witnesses and members of the legal profession. There is a buzz around a town in which there is a busy courthouse. I appreciate the economic benefits of a vibrant courthouse although that is not the purpose of the administration of justice. The Deputy believes, as do many people, that Portlaoise requires a new courthouse. I am advised that there are currently 13 staff in Portlaoise courthouse. That relates to district 15, in addition to special courts. Portlaoise court sits 13 days per month. The remaining sittings in district 15 take place in Tullamore. Portlaoise is a vibrant town.”
“The precise details remain to be settled. There is significant demand for the construction of courthouses throughout the country. Deputy Aird very eloquently advanced the cause of Portlaoise. Others have advanced the cause of other places. It is in the national development plan, but in the latter stage.”
“Insofar as capital works are concerned, the courts have benefited over a number of years from investment in new and refurbished courthouses at several locations nationally and this is continuing under the current NDP. The Courts Service purchased a site for a new courthouse in County Laois in 2020. Further progress with the Portlaoise project will depend on ultimate allocations under the revised NDP funding. There are a range of projects to be delivered across the justice sector, not just in the area of courts but also in the area of Garda stations. I am pleased to state that the construction of a new Garda divisional headquarters in Portlaoise is under way. Within the overall framework, my expectation is that development of the new courthouse in Portlaoise will form part of the latter phase of the current national development plan.”
“I thank the Deputy for his question about the courthouse in Portlaoise. At the outset, in the area of provision of funding and services for the courts, it is important to note we secured an increase of €11 million, or 8.3%, in funding, for day-to-day court operations and the development of services in budget 2026. As the Deputy will also be aware, the Government is supporting the Courts Service to progress its ten year modernisation programme to deliver digitally-enabled services designed make the courts system operate much more effectively. This programme is having significant positive impacts. The Government is also ensuring we have more judges available because courthouses on their own are not of much use unless there are judges to administer justice.”
“The Deputy is right to urge that the process be sped up. Irrespective of any changes that are introduced to the process, it must operate faster. It is unfair that people who are seeking jobs or seeking to be vetted for sporting or recreational purposes must wait for lengthy periods. The Deputy is also correct to identify that this is progressing quite slowly. The report was commissioned in 2021. We need to make a decision and change the process. We do not want to be talking about the issue another year from now. We must ensure that a faster system is put in place while at the same time ensuring that the fundamental requirement of protecting children is maintained. Those two objectives are compatible. We can have a faster system while ensuring that children's welfare is not threatened.”
“If anything goes wrong, the Garda will be responsible if it vetted somebody who turns out to be a threat. I can understand from its perspective the caution with which it is approaching the issue. However, it is a matter I want advanced.”
“I agree that many efficiencies could be introduced into the system. I am trying to urge those efficiencies at present. For instance, if people are vetted to train a hurling team, why can they not rely on that vetting when they come to coach a soccer team a year later? We need to ensure that those sensible efficiencies are permissible in the system. I know there are issues in respect of wet signatures for vetting. There is an issue in that the Garda does not accept digital signatures for national vetting. I am trying to engage with the Garda on that issue. The Garda thinks that the use of digital signatures adds risk to the vetting process such that it becomes susceptible to disputes regarding the signatory's identity or intent, or whether the document was tampered with after signing.”
“The group’s primary focus has been to examine the means of strengthening the vetting legislation in a workable and effective manner, while seeking to balance this with issues that have arisen regarding the re-vetting period and the transfer of vetting across other similar activities, for example, with sports teams. I have been updated on the group's work and have decided that a number of key recommendations should now be implemented, in consultation with all relevant partners. It is my objective to ensure the vetting system is fit for purpose and, to the greatest extent possible, efficient and future-proofed to continue to protect our children. I have received recommendations and am working on them. The issues require me to engage with An Garda Síochána to ensure that it can process applications in the manner I would like it to.”
“I am aware from talking to TDs, organisations and groups that there are a number of concerns about and issues with the current process, in particular the requirement for multiple re-vettings. My Department is working to consider solutions to these matters. The Garda vetting review group was tasked with ensuring that any changes to the vetting process kept it robust, efficient and effective while improving the service it provided. The membership of the group included gardaí, officials from my Department and Tusla, and other relevant stakeholders.”
“I thank the Deputy. I am aware of the concerns people have in respect of delays in Garda vetting. It is important to emphasise at the outset that the primary purpose of vetting carried out by An Garda Síochána under the national vetting bureau Acts is to ensure the safety of children and vulnerable adults. Many organisations nationwide whose work focuses on the safety, enjoyment and comfort of children and vulnerable people understand that they must take all reasonable steps to ensure that only suitable people are recruited and employed. I know the Garda takes this responsibility very seriously. This requires a robust Garda vetting process that reassures the public, and particularly parents, that appropriate checks are conducted on people taking on positions of trust.”
“I managed to secure a significant increase in the amount of resources for the National Cyber Security Centre. Regrettably, that is necessary. The reason it is necessary is because there are increasing threats to our cyber networks from malign actors.”
“In fairness, I think this Government is the first to set up a national security committee that meets frequently in respect of security issues affecting the State. There is collaboration across Government. There is a recognition that, when it comes to national security and protecting ourselves from cyber threats, there has to be an aligned, agreed response from the State. I would not like the impression to be created that there are separate agencies doing their own things such as the Defence Forces, An Garda Síochána and the National Cyber Security Centre. There is collaboration through the Government to ensure that we have a national system of cyberdefence that is effective in protecting the State. The National Cyber Security Centre was provided with very significant resources in the budget two days ago.”
“One of the consequences of the legislation that I will be bringing before the House in the near future is that, when enacted, it will impose obligations, not just on State agencies to be prepared, but on certain types of those in the private sector to be prepared as well. A cyberattack on a State agency can have enormously detrimental consequences. Similarly, a cyberattack on a private enterprise can have devastating consequences for Irish consumers.”
“It does have the same ambition. It is important to note that we do not try to divide up Ireland's protections into different spheres, whether it is the Defence Forces or what comes within the ambit of the Department of justice. Huge collaboration is ongoing across Government. At present, my Department is engaging with key stakeholders, including the Departments of foreign affairs, Defence and enterprise, trade and employment, to ensure alignment with a range of related national strategies such as the digital and AI strategy and the maritime strategy. As the Deputy identified, these are now significant threats, not just to Departments and Government agencies, but also to the private sector.”
“Officials in my Department are consulting the National Cyber Security Centre. I had the opportunity to visit the centre recently. It is very advanced in terms of its technology and sophistication. Having met the people there, I am very confident that there are good people in charge of cybersecurity in this country.”
“A mid-term review of the strategy published in May 2023 saw the inclusion of a further 18 new measures to be met within its lifetime. An end-of-strategy report is close to completion and I expect to publish it shortly alongside a public consultation. It is also important to point out that I hope to bring significant legislation before the House in the near future, namely, the national cybersecurity Bill, for which we got permission last year to proceed to drafting. That is going to set out the official statutory basis for our cybersecurity system in Ireland. In a European context, it will seek to transpose the NIS2 directive alongside other national commitments relating to cybersecurity, such as those contained in the programme for Government and the national development plan.”
“I thank Deputy Callaghan for her question. She has identified an area of our national security and national defence that needs to be accentuated and taken much more seriously in light of recent developments in the world. A number of weeks ago, we saw cyberattacks on airports throughout Europe. It had a bit of an impact on Ireland, but what they are indicative of is that cybersecurity is extremely essential in our country at present. Ireland’s second national cybersecurity strategy, for the years 2019 to 2024, set out 20 collaborative measures with the aim of meeting a range of objectives. These included improving the ability of the State to respond to and manage cybersecurity incidents and improving the resilience and security of public sector IT systems to better protect data and the services that our people rely upon.”
“In some cases, it is appropriate that there is expert evidence to assist the court in deciphering what the wishes of the child are, what the voice of the child is, how the child should be heard and what the child is saying. I can understand why that may be necessary in certain circumstances, particularly for younger children. It is absolutely essential that the system retain confidence in that. That is why I am waiting for the proposals from Ms Justice Nuala Jackson.”
“Just to let the Deputy know, in terms of the recommendations of the review I referred to a few moments ago, one is that we produce guidelines on the commissioning, content and use of welfare reports. The Chief Justice has established a judicial committee to develop guidelines on the commissioning, content and use of welfare reports. It is being chaired by Ms Justice Nuala Jackson of the High Court and is being supported by my Department. It is expected to conclude its work shortly. We need to ensure, if reports are being produced for a court, that we are satisfied that they are based upon arcane expertise that is of benefit to the court. All courts are dependent upon getting expert evidence.”
“It is obviously easier in circumstances where there is a teenage child who is able to express their own views to the court, but when it comes to children under the age of ten it gets much more difficult and, as the age declines, it is sometimes virtually impossible to decipher what is in the best interests of the child. It is something we have to keep working on.”
“The Deputy is right that the term and concept of "parental alienation" is highly contested and contentious. It is the case with virtually all family law disputes that they become very contested and contentious. I want to try to ensure that when it comes to a family law dispute involving a child there is a mechanism in place to ensure the voice of that child is heard. The system at present probably relies too much on the production of the reports we spoke about a few moments ago. There is a level of dissatisfaction in respect of those reports and I think some of that dissatisfaction is understandable. I need to try to identify another mechanism whereby the voice of the child can become apparent or heard by the court.”
“I have not been able to get recommendations together as to how we should proceed in terms of changing the law. Work is ongoing in the Department in this respect. It does take time, consideration and consultation with parties to assess how we should move on. The work, though, is ongoing and I hope to be in a position to have further information for the House in due course.”
“As I said, research was commissioned and published by my Department on the operation of the in camera rule in family law proceedings, and that report contains 21 recommendations. A number of the strategies that have arisen on foot of that report include the publication of the review of the role of expert reports in the family law process too. The Deputy may be aware this issue is quite contentious and is one that is coming within my consideration of family law strategy. I would like to see the lifting of some of the in camera rule restrictions. Many people who have been before the family law process have expressed their concerns about it. An excellent report was produced by academics recently. It was commissioned by my Department and provided to me. It outlined a lot of general dissatisfaction with the operation of the rule.”
“The primary principle must be that justice should be administered in public. However, there are exceptions to it. The in camera rule is one of them, which applies generally in family law proceedings. As the Deputy knows, it does not preclude newspapers or journalists attending in courts where family law disputes are being heard, but it does preclude them from publishing the identities of individuals. I am pleased to say we have seen some progress in the area. Greater reporting is now taking place in respect of what is happening in the family law courts. We frequently see on a Monday in one of the newspapers that there is a weekly report of a family law case proceeding there.”
“They are much in demand in Ireland at present. Many of them are attracted to bigger firms and higher earning areas. It is an issue we need to reflect on regarding what we can do to get solicitors recruited into legal advice boards or aid boards around the country.”
“Due to the limitations on resources, I do not think I could find myself in a situation where I would just abolish thresholds. In terms of having different thresholds for family law cases and domestic violence cases, applications to the scheme at present predominantly arise in respect of international protection advice being sought and, indeed, family law advice. Those are the two big cohorts of it. My first priority is to try to get the threshold up to €23,500. That would protect a lot of people in the family law sphere. In terms of a timeframe, I hope to be in a position to make a decision on this matter next year. I am sorry, perhaps this is not sufficient for the Deputy, but I do not want to set unrealistic expectations. Turning to resources, there is obviously a difficulty in trying to recruit solicitors.”
“In family law, that type of arrangement does not really exist, so this is the area where we need to ensure adequate funding is available.”
“I am aware of the minority and majority reports. In many respects, it is beneficial to have two reports. Being realistic, though, my best chance of implementing recommendations is to implement those in the majority report. The Deputy has identified an important area. The area of family law and domestic violence which requires civil orders to be granted is one where it is hard to get other elements of funding provided to it. If somebody wants to take a personal injury case or a contractual case, if they have a good case a principle operates in the legal profession of no foal, no fee. Lawyers will represent the individual concerned and if the case succeeds - and their belief is that it will succeed - they will get their costs paid at the end.”
“I need to ensure, in advance of raising the threshold, that I have the solicitors and legal advice providers available to ensure that, once it is raised, the advice can be provided. I am in the process of getting advice from my Department on what level of further legal expertise will be required to facilitate the raising of the threshold. I want to raise it. This has been on my desk for a couple of months now but I am aware of the urgency because of the fact that the threshold has not been changed since 2006.”