Jim O'Callaghan
Dublin Bay South · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“This relates to section 69 of the Bill as passed by Dáil Éireann, which amends Schedule 5 to the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 to add the Courts Service to the Schedule.”
“The first four amendments in this group are minor drafting corrections. They corrected the wording in four places so that the Bill reads consistently. It is changing the word "references" to "a reference". They make no change to the substance or effect of the Bill.”
“The ARP scheme was introduced in July 2022 to recognise the generosity of members of the public who opened their houses, whether in their entirety or through the provision of a room, at their own expense to provide shelter to people displaced by the Ukraine war. The Department of Social Protection administers the scheme on my behalf.”
“I have no doubt it will be challenged, and I have to be able to convince a court, if it is being challenged, that this legislation weighs up conflicting interests and recognises there is a mechanism for somebody who has reformed himself to get off the register.”
“The scheme has been a lifeline for people from Ukraine displaced by the conflict, given high rental market rates and scarcity of rental accommodation.”
“I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle in the first instance for presiding over these Stages of the legislation. I am very pleased that this legislation has been enacted. I want to thank a few people very briefly. I thank Deputy McAuliffe for introducing me to Jason Poole. I thank Senator O'Loughlin for her work on this issue in the Seanad.”
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“I am not saying that is so in this particular case but if there is an issue in respect of quantum, that is when, as the Deputy suggested, a mediator could be put in place to try to see if a mediated settlement could be facilitated.”
“I will make inquiries in respect of the case that is ongoing at present. If it is the case that there is clearly liability on the part of the State, I would like to see that case resolved in a mediated fashion. I will speak to the Attorney General in respect of that case. Obviously, the Deputy is correct that it puts many burdens on people to sue the State, but a couple of years ago the Attorney General published a protocol for how the State should deal with persons who were suing it. If it is the case that there is liability on the part of the State, I would like to see that liability acknowledged by the State. However, sometimes the difficulty in resolving a court case can be in respect of the quantum.”
“On the basis of the information we have at present, however, in circumstances where there are only two allegations, it would be difficult for me to recommend or propose some form of a redress scheme when the numbers are so limited. I note what the Deputy says, that there may be other people out there who are hesitant about coming forward, but I would be interested to hear his proposals as to how we could encourage them to do so.”
“I thank the Deputy. He put that very sensitively and appropriately. I am aware of the allegations made against Scouting Ireland. I recall the "RTÉ Investigates" programme and, indeed, I very much recall the very powerful work done by Joe Duffy on his programme in interviewing people who had been subject of abuse while they were in the scouts. On the Probation Service, there was a slight overlap, certainly in the case of one individual concerned, between the Probation Service and the scouts. Of course, the vast majority of work done by the Probation Service was done in respect of people who were not children but, notwithstanding that, it is an issue that has to be closely watched.”
“Deputy McAuliffe raised the issue of whether or not the Department considered the introduction of a redress scheme. As I said, there is a case currently being dealt with by the State Claims Agency, my Department is aware of one other case and no other victims have come forward. In all the circumstances, it would seem more appropriate to allow that case that is currently in the system to be concluded rather than starting a new process at this stage.”
“The matter is currently the subject of a legal claim which is being managed by the State Claims Agency on behalf of my Department. Since the most recent allegation referred to above, the victims' unit of the Probation Service has put out several communications to encourage any relevant victims to contact it. I have been advised that no further victims have come forward. The Probation Service has confirmed that it has no current allegations on hand. Like Deputy McAuliffe, I would encourage anyone who has been a victim of any kind of sexual assault to reach out for help and support and to report the matter to An Garda Síochána. There is also a range of victim support services available. These are listed on the victims' charter website.”
“I thank Deputy McAuliffe for raising this question. I acknowledge his long-standing interest in this issue and his persistent raising of the matter, which is of significant importance. I have confirmed with my officials that there have been two historic allegations of child sexual abuse made in relation to staff of the Probation Service. Both relate to alleged incidents in the 1970s by a former staff member who is now deceased. When the first allegation came to the attention of the Probation Service in 2000, An Garda Síochána and relevant services were notified and a criminal investigation was initiated. In recent years, the Probation Service became aware of a second allegation against the same former staff member, who by that time was deceased.”
“The purpose of paying more fees to lawyers is to ensure that the women the Deputy talks about, the individuals who want to access and vindicate their rights before the courts, are able to do that. They cannot do that unless they get access to legal advice. I accept that there is an issue and that the fees will have to increase to try to attract more solicitors to do this private work.”
“I accept there is an issue in terms of solicitors being available to do this very important work. Part of the problem is that because the Irish economy is doing so well, it is attractive for solicitors to get work elsewhere, other than in the areas the Deputy is discussing here or other areas such as criminal legal aid under the criminal legal aid scheme. We need to ensure the fees that are payable are heightened to ensure we get solicitors who are prepared to do this valuable work. We need to recognise, and I welcome that the Deputy has acknowledged this, that there is a difference between the story that we are just getting more fees for lawyers and looking at the purpose of it.”
“We need to ensure they have access to appropriate legal advice in order to facilitate them in vindicating their rights under the Constitution and under statute. It is progressing, the reports are completed and my Department is working on them. I hope to put in place a proposal in the near future for the Government.”
“Yes, it will be addressed. When a very detailed report comes in - or indeed two reports; I have no objection to receiving majority and minority reports - it must be carefully considered. There is no point in me announcing I will implement the report and then people asking when this will be done and how that implementation will take place. As the Deputy will be aware, civil legal aid is provided by the legal aid board, primarily through a network of law centres and solicitors employed by the board. There are times when the board will engage private solicitors to supplement the services provided by board solicitors in certain areas of law on a case-by-case basis. I am aware of issues arising in respect of family law and predominantly women who must go before the courts because they are in a family law predicament.”
“In order to navigate the law, the reality is we need legal advice and assistance. I propose in the short term to put the reports out for public consultation. While that is happening, I want the Deputy to know I will ask my Department to work on how we can give effect to some of the recommendations contained in the reports. There will be a consequence to increasing thresholds and making civil legal aid more accessible to people. This is something I want to achieve but the consequence is that more work will have to be done. I need to ensure there are resources on the ground for private practitioners and solicitors working within the legal aid board offices around the country to facilitate them in providing for this greater level of work.”
“I thank Deputy Carthy for that. As he stated, the civil legal aid review group completed its reports recently. In April, I received a majority report from the group and a minority report from former Chief Justice Frank Clarke. I had the opportunity to read both and am discussing within my Department how I will progress them. I am satisfied with the need to increase the thresholds available to those seeking access to the civil legal aid scheme. Sometimes people confuse more money for the civil legal aid scheme as being more money for lawyers. It is not about lawyers; it is about ensuring citizens have access to the means by which they can vindicate their constitutional or statutory rights. Law is extremely complex. We keep producing vast amounts of it in this House and we also have European law on top of that.”
“I will continue to resource CAB, which wants to extend its powers. This will happen through legislation I will introduce shortly into the House.”
“I agree with Deputy McGreehan. One of the reasons many serious criminals from Ireland have left and gone further afield is the threat they were exposed to from CAB. That is a positive development. I want the Deputy to know there is no part of the country that is free from CAB's supervision or surveillance. In all communities around the country, CAB has initiated proceedings against individuals where it is believed they have assets which are the proceeds of crime and I want that to continue. I am sure it is happening in the Border region as well as other regions. It is not simply an organisation that concentrates its attention on Dublin or Cork or the main cities. It is absolutely national in its reach and international when it comes to its co-operation with other agencies. Again, I agree with Deputy McGreehan.”
“I want Deputy McGreehan to know that the Government will continue to support the growth and expansion of CAB to recover assets for the State. It is extremely important for criminals to know that if they stay in Ireland, their assets will be seized if it is not the case that they will be convicted and brought before the courts.”
“I have had the honour of going to Walter Scott House to meet Superintendent Gubbins, who heads up CAB. I am very impressed by the work it is doing. Although Walter Scott House is a fine new building, I am aware that the work of CAB is expanding and I am conscious that the expansion of its numbers will require further facilities. My Department has submitted a proposal as part of the review of the national development plan for funding for CAB accommodation. CAB is currently liaising with the OPW to find new accommodation. As any Minister will tell you, negotiations in respect of the national development plan are ongoing. I cannot guarantee it will happen - it is simply part of a proposal submitted - but it is something I am anxious to see occur.”
“The key reform under this legislation is the reduction of the waiting period for asset disposal from seven years to two, significantly accelerating access to seized assets. There is a whole series of other matters in the Bill which I will return to at a future date in the House. As regards Deputy McGreehan's question about the budget and resourcing of CAB, I am pleased to tell her that the CAB budget for 2025 is €12.75 million, which is an increase of 13% since 2023. Between 2018 and 2024, authorised staff resources in CAB increased steadily from 90 to 101. There are also further details of CAB plans which are available in its strategic plan, which is published on the Department website. It is important to know that we will continue to resource CAB as it is an essential tool in our fight against crime.”
“It is also instructive to note that when I am at European meetings - I know this is the same with the Ministers of State, Deputies Brophy and Collins - many of our colleagues from other European countries are very interested to hear that Ireland has a system in place to seize the assets of criminals and that it is a system based not on the criminal law but on the civil law and the civil standard of proof. Since that legislation was introduced nearly 30 years ago, it has been cutting-edge legislation that is now being followed by the rest of Europe and, I am sure, further afield. It is also a timely question from Deputy McGreehan because yesterday I received from the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel a stamped copy of the proceeds of crime Bill that I intend to introduce as soon as possible.”
“I thank Deputy McGreehan for this timely question. The reason I say it is timely is that, as she is aware, last week marked the anniversary of the murder of Veronica Guerin, which, as the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach, Deputy Maxwell, will be aware as well, had a transformative effect on the policing of Irish criminals. One of the consequences of her murder was that laws were changed whereby we could go after criminals in the civil courts. The proceeds of crime legislation and the Criminal Assets Bureau legislation were direct consequences of that.”
“That is not a sign that we are turning into a lock-them-up society, but it is an indication that when there is a greater population, we are going to need greater prison spaces.”
“I want the House to be aware that there are some very fine prisons in Ireland. We talked about Cork Prison. The new Cork Prison, which I have visited, is an excellent prison. Similarly, I have visited both the men's and women's prisons in Limerick. Huge investment went into them. The Irish Prison Service deserve to be commended on getting these prisons built on time and on budget. When we do prisons, we do them well. Our population has increased significantly. However, our prison capacity has not similarly increased. If we go back to 2011, we had a prison capacity of approximately 4,600. Today, we still have a prison capacity of 4,600. We need to recognise that with the increasing population, there has to be an increase in capacity for prisons.”
“That is an area that I am going to change by amending the community services legislation to allow judges to now consider the imposition of community sanctions in respect of a person on whom a sentence of up to two years in prison is to be imposed. There are options other than fining or incarcerating somebody.”
“This is one area of the criminal justice system where there are capacity issues that need to be addressed fundamentally and rapidly. We invest huge resources in An Garda Síochána and the courts to ensure we get cases on for hearing in the criminal courts as quickly as possible. The whole system will not operate effectively if, at the end of those processes when a person has received a significant custodial sentence, there is an issue arising in respect of capacity for that person to serve their sentence. As the Deputy will appreciate, it is also the case that we need to look at alternatives to imprisonment. There are a lot of people in prison. I have visited five of the prisons to date. There are a lot of people in prison who have serious health and addiction issues. There are also people in prison who could be doing community service.”
“That is the public spending code. This will enable accelerated delivery with timelines reduced by 12 months to 18 months. Overall, there are plans in place to deliver extra spaces. It has to be done rapidly. I am doing it as fast as I can, but I understand the capacity issues.”
“This increase is to fund measures to address overcrowding, including a capital budget of €53 million, which is €22.5 million more than the original 2024 allocation. The Irish Prison Service also aims to recruit up to 300 prison officers in 2025, in addition to the 271 prison officers recruited in 2024. The future prison capacity working group was established back in 2024 to further consider future prison capacity needs and to make recommendations on the numbers and types of prison capacity needed out to 2035. I brought the report of this working group to Cabinet recently and it will be published shortly. I also recently brought to Cabinet a proposal to accelerate the delivery of 960 additional prison spaces by utilising an exemption from the initial approval stages of the infrastructure guidelines for these projects.”
“I thank Deputy Brabazon for the question. I am very aware of the capacity issues that exist in our prisons, and challenges faced by those who work and live in our prisons as a result. The current programme for Government commits to increasing the capacity of our prisons by an additional 1,500 spaces, and the Irish Prison Service has already begun work to achieve this. Since January 2022, capacity across the prison estate has been increased by more than 300 new spaces, with 126 delivered in 2024 and 40 delivered to date in 2025, with plans to deliver a further 101 additional spaces by the end this year. Budget 2025 increased overall funding to the Irish Prison Service by €79 million, or 18%, when compared to 2024, bringing the total allocated to nearly €525 million.”
“One of the tricky things about this, which the Bill Deputy Ó Snodaigh introduced recognises, is that there is a distinction between persons who were convicted for homosexual activity between consenting males - everyone recognises that if there was not consensual activity and if the individual was of a young age-----”
“My view is that since the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration has been working on a particular Bill up to now, and I have asked the officials to expedite this matter to see if we can get it into the miscellaneous provisions Bill, that is probably the speedier method of getting it done. There is an advantage to being in government from the point of view of trying to get legislation through the House. I commend Opposition colleagues who bring in detailed Bills, such as the one presented here last Tuesday, but Deputy Ward knows himself that they require the use of Private Members' time. I would not oppose this Bill on Second Stage but I do think it will be quicker if it is done through the criminal law (miscellaneous provisions) Bill that I will be introducing later this year.”
“Although many of the 64 men will be alive, there are men from before that and a majority of the 940 who probably are deceased. We need to ensure there is an opportunity for the living and for representatives of the recently deceased to bring an application in respect of this.”
“I thank the Deputy. Just to add to the statistics, because it is important we know the extent of what we are potentially talking about, it is hard to be definitive but research indicates that between 1950 and 1993, when homosexuality was decriminalised, approximately 940 men received convictions under the Offences Against the Person Act or the Criminal Law (Amendment) Act 1885. The Deputy is absolutely correct. A number of these men will still be alive and will still have convictions over their name for something that we now regard as something that should not have been criminalised in the past. I do not want a scheme that is going to be too complicated or onerous. I want a scheme whereby individuals will have to apply, and also an opportunity for representatives of a deceased person to apply.”
“It is a very fine piece of professional drafting. I will certainly take it into consideration and officials in my Department will take it into account when working on the legislative heads I have outlined. My priority is to try to get legislation enacted as quickly as possible. Whether that is done through my miscellaneous provisions Bill, which I think is probably the speedier way of doing it, or through the Opposition Private Members' Bill, I am agnostic in respect of that. The important thing is that we try to put in place a speedy statutory scheme to facilitate these men whom Deputy Ward spoke about.”
“I would like him to know that I asked my officials to examine whether the draft heads for the disregard scheme could be produced in a streamlined form that would facilitate their inclusion in the miscellaneous provisions Bill which is currently with the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel for drafting. I believe this is achievable and offers a speedier route to enactment than a dedicated disregard Bill. Drafting of legislative heads on these lines is now at an advanced stage and I hope to bring the heads to Government for approval shortly, with a view to their being added to the miscellaneous provisions Bill. I commend Deputy Ó Snodaigh and the other members of the Opposition who last Tuesday introduced the Disregard of Historic Offences for Consensual Sexual Activity Between Men Bill 2025. I have had an opportunity to look at the Bill.”
“I thank Deputy Ward for asking this question. He will recall that about six weeks ago, during the last round of oral questions to the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration, his colleague Deputy Ó Snodaigh raised a similar question. During the course of an exchange between me and Deputy Ó Snodaigh, I stated that we should look to see if there is some mechanism of expediting this process of bringing forward legislation. Deputy Ward will be aware that a working group produced a report in 2023 which set out a very detailed yet slightly complicated statutory proposal as to how the scheme would operate. When I was discussing the matter with Deputy Ó Snodaigh on the last occasion, I said I would go back to the Department and see if there was any way it could be expedited.”
“There is mandatory training for trainees in Templemore, as I outlined in my answer. Second, I have instructed officials in my Department to prepare the heads of Bill amending the Domestic Violence Act to ensure that, with respect to persons convicted of serious offences on indictment, the detail will be published in court judgments. This will entail a decision by the judges hearing the case. Efforts are being made and, as the Deputy knows, I have permission from the Government to draft an amendment to the counselling notes. This is being drafted at present and it will be contained within the criminal law (miscellaneous provisions) Bill. There are also other legislative provisions, including on sex for rent and the register, that I have brought forward.”
“However, I believe the attitude of society, politics and people in this House to domestic violence has changed remarkably. There is strong resistance to tolerating it any further. The Garda is doing a good job in respect of it.”
“This is a societal problem. However, my own assessment of it is that there is a growing recognition of the extent of this problem and there is a greater sense of confidence and capacity on the part of women to no longer tolerate this and therefore, to report it. There is a debate as to whether the increased numbers are due to an increase in violence against women or a greater sense of confidence and security in coming forward. It is probably an alignment of both, I regret to say. The increase in violence against women seems to be driven from the completely malign and repulsive presentation on social media to young men and boys as to how relationships should develop. We need to keep an eye on what is happening with boys and young men owing to what they are being exposed to online.”
“Trainees in Templemore receive an online presentation on the basics of domestic violence investigation, where the importance of positive first contact with victims is highlighted. It is also the case that trainees attend an in-person workshop on the Domestic Violence Act 2018 and An Garda Síochána policy on domestic abuse intervention. At the nine-week operational stage, trainee gardaí assume an observational role attached to Garda stations. There is training but there certainly needs to be greater improvement.”
“My own assessment and the advice I have received from within An Garda Síochána and, indeed, from people who are victims of domestic violence is that, once the victim gets engaged with the experts within An Garda Síochána who are extensively trained in dealing with domestic violence, they have a very positive outcome. That is apparent when one considers the response from people outside court where there has been a successful conviction. Obviously, it is imperative that we ensure there is adequate and sufficient training for gardaí in the whole area of domestic violence and coercive control. I want Deputy Connolly to know that, in phase 1 of training at Templemore, trainee gardaí complete 34 hours of instruction on domestic and sexual crime investigation, with dedicated classes on domestic abuse investigation in phases 2 and 3.”
“I thank Deputy Connolly for her question. As she knows, the Women's Aid report was published last week. I had the privilege and responsibility of launching it. The statistics within it are very concerning. There were 32,144 contacts made with Women's Aid services last year. That was a 12% increase on the previous year. I was also aware of the statistic contained within it that 44% of women were not satisfied with the response they got in the first instance from An Garda Síochána. Notwithstanding the fact that the majority were satisfied, it indicates there is an issue in ensuring gardaí are suitably and adequately qualified in responding to the scourge of domestic violence.”
“Historically, there was a delay turning expressions of interest into trainees on the ground. That is changing and I am pleased to see it is speeding up.”
“On the intakes this year, there will be four. There was one in June, there will be another in August and there will be another before the end of the year. There will be approximately four intakes this year. Some years, there can be five but it is dependent upon each year and how the schedule operates. On the proposal to increase the training allowance, that is something I will certainly look at. It is something we have indicated in the programme of Government. At present, it is €354 per week during training. I am confident about the immediate future. It is significant that 6,700 people expressed interest during the recruitment campaign. It is also noteworthy that, of those 6,700 who expressed interest in February, some of them were already starting in the Garda College. Certainly, many of them will be starting in the next intake.”
“When I was on the backbenches, I suggested proposals such as increasing the age that someone could join to above 35 and extending the retirement age. I am open to Deputy Carthy's ideas.”
“The programme for Government commitment is that we will recruit 5,000 gardaí during the five-year term of the Government. I am not too worried about whether we get to 1,000 each year and if they are evenly spread over the five years. The priority is to get to 5,000. We need to increase the numbers within the force. On the retention crisis, the number of resignations from An Garda Síochána is pretty small. In 2024, approximately only 1% of attested members of An Garda Síochána resigned from the force. That is a pretty low number when compared to the PSNI or other police forces in the UK. On the future, I am trying to recruit as many gardaí this year as possible. I cannot give the Deputy a figure now as to how many but I ask him to give me some ideas.”
“There were a total of 111 gardaí attested in 2022, out of a total of 116 who commenced. In 2023, there were five intakes of 135, 154, 174, 174 and 109 trainees. Of those, there was a total of 707 attested. In 2023, 746 were taken in and 707 attested. In 2024, there were four intakes, with a total of 630 taken in and, to date, 438 trainee gardaí attested from the first three intakes. The individual totals for these three intakes are 169, 149 and 120. The final intake of 2024 is due to attest later this year. Deputy Carthy can see there is a variation in the numbers for each of the three years that he asked about because it is dependent on whether there are four or five intakes.”
“I thank Deputy Carthy for his question. As every Member of the House knows, a visible Garda presence is really essential to ensuring the public feel a sense of safety. It is also essential from the Government's perspective and from the objective within the programme for Government to build safe and secure communities for the public to enjoy. In February, there was the first Garda recruitment campaign of 2025. I am pleased to say this competition was particularly successful and more than 6,700 applications were received in response to it. This demonstrates the continued interest that exists in a career in An Garda Síochána. I want to answer the specifics of Deputy Carthy's questions. In 2022, there were only two intakes of gardaí into Templemore. These were intakes of 24 and 92 trainees, with 25 and 86 gardaí attested from those intakes.”
“We will have to watch the progression of the partnerships carefully. There were benefits to the joint policing committees, of which the Senator and I were members. They have now come to an end. We want something more than the joint policing committees. From my experience, sometimes the committees could just be a box-ticking exercise. We want people responsible for important services in the area so they can engage on policing and on community safety. That requires more than just An Garda Síochána, which has a huge amount on its desk. I thank the Senator for raising the issue. We will engage further on it in the future.”
“The Senator is correct about councillors. Like her, I started my political career as a councillor, as did many Members of this and the Lower House. There is a huge benefit in being elected to a local authority by the local community. I do not think it is possible to get elected to a local authority unless one is well aware of the issues in the community. That is why it is so important the seven members of the partnerships are elected members of the local authority. Chairperson of a partnership will be an important role. Councillors are eminently qualified for it. In drafting the regulations, I wanted to ensure councillors and anybody else would have an opportunity to put themselves forward to a partnership. In the first instance, it would be preferable if councillors put themselves forward.”
“The Act also provides for a national office for community safety to be established in my Department. The staff of this office have held a number of information sessions with staff appointed to the partnerships by local authorities. I am engaging with the officials in my Department who are responsible for the office. It will be a very important office and will ensure the partnerships operate effectively throughout the country.”
“There will be five safety partnerships for the five administrative areas within Dublin City Council's area. That is appropriate considering the vastness of the city. There will be two in Fingal as well. Each partnership will be led by a chair supported by a co-ordinator and administrator. These full-time permanent staff posts are resourced by the Department of justice and employed by the relevant local authority. It is important that the Department of justice plays an involved role in the partnerships. There is no point in setting them up and not giving them the support they require. In preparation for the establishment of the partnerships, local authorities have been recruiting these staff and so far 24 co-ordinators and 18 administrators have been appointed across the country.”