Jim O'Callaghan
Dublin Bay South · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“This relates to section 69 of the Bill as passed by Dáil Éireann, which amends Schedule 5 to the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 to add the Courts Service to the Schedule.”
“The first four amendments in this group are minor drafting corrections. They corrected the wording in four places so that the Bill reads consistently. It is changing the word "references" to "a reference". They make no change to the substance or effect of the Bill.”
“The ARP scheme was introduced in July 2022 to recognise the generosity of members of the public who opened their houses, whether in their entirety or through the provision of a room, at their own expense to provide shelter to people displaced by the Ukraine war. The Department of Social Protection administers the scheme on my behalf.”
“I have no doubt it will be challenged, and I have to be able to convince a court, if it is being challenged, that this legislation weighs up conflicting interests and recognises there is a mechanism for somebody who has reformed himself to get off the register.”
“The scheme has been a lifeline for people from Ukraine displaced by the conflict, given high rental market rates and scarcity of rental accommodation.”
“I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle in the first instance for presiding over these Stages of the legislation. I am very pleased that this legislation has been enacted. I want to thank a few people very briefly. I thank Deputy McAuliffe for introducing me to Jason Poole. I thank Senator O'Loughlin for her work on this issue in the Seanad.”
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“They do not have same resources that we have in this country on a per capita basis, so there is no real reason it has not been introduced to date. In the next number of months, I intend to put out for public tender the contract to provide tags that can be used within the prison system and our criminal justice system. The benefit of that will be that we will not have to remand as many people in custody prior to their trial because, if they are electronically tagged, we can avoid any difficulty in respect of them absconding. It is a sanction that also can be imposed in respect of those who are convicted to supervise them after they either finish their term of imprisonment or indeed on a term of imprisonment. There are other solutions that are needed as well.”
“I am not going to hide the fact we have an overcrowding problem within our prisons. It is my responsibility to try to fix it. As Senator Gallagher identified, one of the mechanisms by which it can be fixed is through electronic tagging. When one thinks about it, we introduced the capacity for electronic tagging on our Statute Book back as long ago as 1997 in the Bail Act. We also refer to it in the Criminal Justice Act 2006. The Sex Offenders (Amendment) Act 2023 provides for electronic monitoring in certain circumstances. If we have these statutory provisions that state that electronic monitoring can be used, it is pretty surprising we do not have it available to us at this stage. Our neighbouring jurisdiction, Northern Ireland, has tagging.”
“I welcome those from Ranelagh Multi-Denominational School who are in the Gallery. They are a great school and it is great to see them in the Houses of the Oireachtas. Senator Gallagher raises an important issue. It is one of the most pressing issues that is facing me as the Minister for Justice. It relates to what is the overcrowding issue in our prisons. Since I have been made Minister for Justice, I have visited three prisons already. I have been to Cork Prison and Cloverhill Prison. I was in Shelton Abbey open prison on Monday past. As Senator Ryan knows, I am going to Limerick Prison on Monday. It is extremely important that, as Minister, I see what is actually happening in our prisons. Very many of the prisons are dominated by people who are excellent members of staff who are doing their best under difficult circumstances.”
“We are doing them a disservice unless we try to divert them and, regrettably, a custodial sanction is necessary on some occasions.”
“It is important that the Judiciary is aware of the options available under section 98 of the Children Act 2001. There are more options available other than simply a custodial sentence. I agree with the Senator that, on occasion, a custodial sentence is appropriate but the imposition of a sanction on the parent or guardian, or the imposition of an order requiring the parent or a guardian to be bound over, can also have an impact. These are sanctions that need to be given consideration. I am aware of the issues that are of concern to the Senator and An Garda Síochána. I will continue to engage with the Minister, Deputy Foley, in respect of Oberstown. There is limited space there and, as the population increases, we are regrettably finding ourselves having to deal with more delinquent children.”
“However, we need to focus more on the interests of the community and individuals who are the victims of that criminal behaviour. It is not much comfort to them to know that the offender is under 18 years of age. I am looking at Oberstown. I have discussed it with the Minister, Deputy Foley. We need to provide more spaces. Since our population is increasing, we are inevitably going to need more spaces in prison and youth detention centres. That is incompatible with another ambition and policy I have, that being, to try to make community sanctions available for the purpose of a penalty being imposed.”
“If a child is involved in criminal behaviour at the age of 15, 16 or 17 years, then there is a strong likelihood that, by the time he or she gets to 18, that individual will be continuing with that behaviour and finally find himself or herself in prison immediately. There is a responsibility on us to try to divert children. That is why the youth diversion programme is useful. As the Senator will know, the youth diversion programme operates in Laois. We have 93 youth diversion programmes, with two operating in Laois. They are the Acorn project, which is operated by Youth Work Ireland Midlands, and LOOP which is operated by Foróige. It is a complicated issue, as the Senator will appreciate, to know what to do with children who break criminal law.”
“She will reflect on that to see what can be done. Obviously, some individuals can be released from Oberstown, thereby providing spaces. However, I am fully aware that unless there is the prospect of a custodial sanction being imposed, in the infrequent occasion that it is necessary, then the courts and the Garda can find themselves in a situation with juvenile delinquents where there appears to be no sanction in respect of it. There are other options available to try to stop children continuing on the pathway of criminality. We are doing a disservice to children unless we try to correct their behaviour at that stage.”
“That is something that the courts need to look at more. You can find yourself in a situation, however, where a child is just not amenable to any sanction from a court or, indeed, his or her parents and where it is regrettably appropriate for the child to be detained. The Senator is correct in what she said about Oberstown but it is not completely full. Five or six spaces are kept available for girl offenders as opposed to boy offenders. An indication of the difference between offending between sexes is that the spaces for girl offenders generally are not occupied. The boy offender sections are full. I am extremely concerned about this matter and, because of that, I had a meeting last week with the Minister for children, Deputy Foley. We discussed what could be done to increase capacity at Oberstown.”
“I thank Senator McCormack for raising this matter. It is a great honour for me to be back in the Seanad and I hope to be here frequently. I wish to advise that, within my Department, I am delegating responsibility for youth crime to the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins. Notwithstanding that, it is an extremely important issue and I welcome the opportunity to respond to what the Senator has to say. In terms of the judge's comments, it is important that people are fully aware of the penalties that can be imposed on children who are convicted of offences before the court. The Senator is correct in noting that the ultimate sanction is detention. However, under section 98 of the Children Act, other options are available to the courts, in particular sanctions that can be imposed upon parents or guardians.”
“I was very sorry to hear about the issues of concern Deputy Gannon raised and very pleased to hear the Department was of assistance to him. I want all Deputies to know the Department will always be of assistance in dealing with any issues like that. It is there to facilitate not just Deputies but the public.”
“We talk a lot about people coming down from Northern Ireland and claiming asylum in the Republic, but similarity people in Britain complain about the fact that many people arrive in Dublin, move up to Belfast and get into Britain that way.”
“It is my view, allowing for an oral hearing during the appeal process when there has already been an oral hearing at the first stage is unnecessary. People will have an entitlement to an oral hearing at appeal stage if there is no transcript of what they said in the first instance and if there is no recording of what they said in the first instance. The person determining the appeal will be able to hear and read what was said in the first instance. Deputy Tóibín mentioned having an Irish sea border. If he can achieve that, I will commend him. I do not think that is going to be achievable in the short term. What is useful is the continued co-operation between Ireland and Britain. We can see migration into Ireland, in terms of asylum applications, is very much affected by what is happening in Britain and the United Kingdom.”
“They will be asked questions about it and they can provide evidence in respect of it. I disagree with what Deputy Gannon said about oral hearings. There will still be oral hearings. However, they will take place at the first instance process. For the first instance hearing, an applicant will have a full oral hearing. What is going to change is there will not be automatic entitlement to have an oral hearing at the appeal stage. That is a change I have to implement. I am conscious as well that we will be able to have full engagement on this when the legislation comes before the justice committee, of which the Deputy is a member. There will be pre-legislative scrutiny and it will come before the Dáil.”
“That has changed the dynamic of the international protection accommodation issue. Deputy Tóibín referred to the number of applications that were rejected. The way to deal with this matter is to speed up the process. Speeding up the process leads to a fairer situation. Deputy Gannon mentioned he thought rushing the process would result in an unfairness. I am not suggesting it will be rushed at all, but the process has to be sped up. Setting a timeline in which a person has a hearing and an appeal within three months is reasonable. We need to recognise what is involved in the application for international protection. You arrive, set out your narrative as to why you are being persecuted and why you are entitled to asylum. That does not have to be an exceptionally complicated process. People have to set out that narrative.”
“Deputy Carthy also said he thought it would be a better idea for the Department to inform people in the locality when there were discussions in respect of an IPAS centre. I do not think that is a good idea. However, I take into account what Deputies Carthy and Tóibín said. There is a situation where if somebody sees an application under section 5 for an exemption for international emergency accommodation, they assume there is going to be an IPAS centre there. That is not the case. In the vast majority of circumstances an IPAS centre will not be going in there. There needs to be a recognition that the situation has changed since this time last year. The State was the entity in pursuit of sites then and now it is the case that sites are in pursuit of the State.”
“I thank the Deputies for their contributions. Deputy Carthy raised the issue of when temporary protection would be up. That is not an issue I can answer. What is apparent from the statistics is that after the war about 117,000 people from Ukraine came to Ireland and received temporary protection. The figure for Ukrainians in Ireland now is around 74,000 or 75,000, so clearly it is the case that many Ukrainians want to go back home. We all want to see an end to the war. We all want to see Ukraine survive as an independent country with its borders restored and intact. If the war ends, people will want to go back to Ukraine, which is their homeland. They fled because they were forced to by the illegal invasion.”
“If we adopt a more effective, expedient and efficient system for the assessment of international protection applications, we will reduce the number arriving in Ireland claiming international protection and there will be a consequent saving on the cost of accommodation.”
“The Vote I put before the House this evening is very much a technical one. Notwithstanding the technicality, when one looks at the purpose behind it, one can see it makes a lot of sense that the whole area of accommodation for international protection applicants and persons who have the benefit of temporary protection should be dealt with by the same Department that deals with international protection assessments. It is a worthwhile transfer of functions. We need to recognise there is a big challenge in the budget for international protection accommodation. I want to see that budget reduced. An eye-watering amount of money has been spent on the fulfilment of our international obligations.”
“The ARP was introduced to recognise the generosity of people who have opened their homes to provide accommodation to those fleeing Ukraine, and the House will be aware of the reduction. I wish to make people aware - I am sure Deputy Carthy is aware of this already from the previous resolution - that the reduction will take effect from 1 June but in reality will be noted by the recipients of those ARP payments only when they receive their payment in July. The Department of integration also delivered the first phase of ten sites of the rapid build homes project, with 2,312 residents having moved into their new homes. Works are nearing completion at the final development at a HSE-owned site in Haywood, Clonmel, which will provide a final 82 units to accommodate 328 Ukrainian people who are the beneficiaries of temporary protection.”
“Once again, the Irish people deserve to be commended on their generosity not just in respect of their response to people coming from Ukraine, but their response to all people coming to Ireland, whether they are seeking international protection or whether they are entitled to temporary protection. That is something that, as politicians, we should always acknowledge. We know, however, that when it comes to temporary protection, since February 2022 more than 89,600 beneficiaries were provided with accommodation by the Department of integration. More than 24,000 of those are currently in State-supported accommodation, with a further 38,600 hosted in accommodation supported by the accommodation recognition payment, ARP. Colleagues debated the reduction in that payment a few moments ago from €800 to €600.”
“Placing responsibility for international protection, including the accommodation of applicants and integration policy, under one Minister and Department creates a cohesiveness to the management of all aspects of international protection and builds on what was, up to 1 May, a close working relationship between officials in international protection in my Department and those with responsibility for accommodation then located within the Department of Children. I welcome all those civil servants back into the Department of Justice. We are also dealing in this resolution with accommodation being provided for beneficiaries of temporary protection. In that context, we are talking about people from Ukraine who have come to Ireland seeking protection as a result of the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia.”
“As regards accommodation itself, it is Government policy to increase the proportion of State-owned beds and reduce the degree of reliance on commercially-provided accommodation. That is part of this reform. Deputies will be aware that I recently brought before the Government the general scheme of an international protection Bill, which was approved. It is in the process of being drafted. That legislation must be in place by June of next year and we intend to ensure that it is in place. That legislation will strengthen border security and it will provide an EU approach to asylum and streamline asylum procedures. The legislation will provide for faster processing, including having all decisions and appeals concluded within three months for certain categories of applicant.”
“I am unambiguous about the fact that I want to reduce the numbers of people coming here seeking international protection. I need to do that to ensure the system operates efficiently and effectively. I also need to do it to ensure we can get the growing budget associated with international protection accommodation reduced. However, I am justified in doing it as well, as I have said before because according to the numbers of persons who have had their applications processed for international protection this year, more than 80% have been refused or determined to be inadmissible. We need to recognise that to reduce the amount of accommodation we need and the cost of the accommodation and we need to take the legitimate steps of trying to expedite the international protection process and to reduce the numbers correspondingly.”
“As Deputies will know, back in 2024, the number of people seeking international protection in Ireland was 18,500. That is a very significant increase on previous years. As a result of that, there was very considerable pressure and a very significant increase in the budget in order to deal with international accommodation as required by it. Ireland and other EU member states have responded to a very significant increase in the number of people seeking international protection. As a result, the number of people being accommodated has increased significantly. Back in 2022, we were accommodating approximately 7,000 people. At present, we are accommodating more than 32,000 people. The Government is taking further steps to try to speed up the process.”
“The Revised Estimate as approved by this House on 1 April is unchanged other than to provide for the transfer into the Justice Vote of funding relating to international protection and Ukraine accommodation and associated services. The budget allocated for international protection accommodation in 2025 is €1.2 billion. That is an eye-watering amount. It is driven by the number of individuals coming to Ireland seeking international protection. We need to recognise that the drivers of the IPAS budget is the numbers of individuals arriving into Ireland seeking international protection. It is therefore appropriate that the accommodation service is linked again within the Department of Justice, which has responsibility for the appraisal of applications for international protection.”
“This is the largest transfer of functions in the programme for Government. It involves transferring approximately 330 staff and 150 contractors and a budget allocation of more than €2 billion. The sum of €2.59 billion mentioned in the resolution reflects the addition of €2 billion from the Department of children Vote to the existing 2025 allocation in the Department of Justice Vote. Deputies will recall that the Revised Estimate for the Department of Justice was approved by this House on 1 April, in advance of the commencement of the Policing, Security and Community Safety Act 2024 and the establishment of the Votes for two new statutory agencies, the Policing and Community Safety Authority and Fiosrú and, therefore, I seek the approval of the House this evening to a Further Revised Estimate for the Justice Vote.”
“The main body associated with the transfer was the International Protection Accommodation Services, IPAS, which offers accommodation and related services to persons seeking international protection. The co-ordination of Government policy relating to anti-racism and migrant integration, the operation and implementation of integration programmes for migrants, and the provision of access to suitable accommodation for persons enjoying temporary protection were also transferred. Those are the individuals who emanate from Ukraine and who are beneficiaries of temporary protection. We also transferred the management of the resettlement in the State of refugees admitted as part of the UN resettlement programme. The final part we transferred was development and provision of policy advice to the Government on those related matters.”
“I move the following Further Revised Estimate: Vote 24 - Department of Justice (Further Revised Estimate) That a sum not exceeding €2,590,495,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st Day of December, 2025, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Justice, Probation Service staff and of certain other services including payments under cash-limited schemes administered by that Office, and payment of certain grants. As Deputies will be aware, the programme for Government commits to the transfer of certain functions between Departments. On 1 May, following approval by the Government, a number of functions were transferred to the Department of Justice from the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth.”
“I commend the House on its consideration of the legislation. We have got through Committee Stage promptly. I will now go off to consider it with officials and we will remain in contact with Senator O'Loughlin.”
“As Senator O'Loughlin will be aware, clearly we need to ensure we have protection in place or will put protection in place for individuals who are the subject of this fairly odious behaviour. I do not want to take up too much or of Senators' time; they have heard enough of me in this House for one day.”
“When departmental officials look at it, they need to consider if it is replicating existing legislation and what the effect of it will be. Obviously, neither Senator O'Loughlin nor anyone else in the House wants to see any unintended consequences. We greatly appreciate her agreement to allow the Department to take some time to assess it and consider it carefully. I am sure she does not want us to enact something very fast which has the unintended consequence of something we are not aware of at present. As Senator Boyhan said, I have excellent officials in the Department of Justice. They will give the Bill very thorough consideration. We need some time to assess it and consider it.”
“We have the non-fatal offences against the person legislation that deals with harassment. We have theft and fraud offences legislation that deals with fraud. However, we do not have anything specific governing the issue Senator O'Loughlin wants to regulate and outlaw. Further work needs to be done in respect of this to ensure we are protecting people from this fraudulent and harassing activity. As Senator Boyhan stated, I have great support within the Department. When legislation comes in, the view of politicians is to instinctively say we support it or we do not support it. From Senator O'Loughlin's point of view, it is important that she has the support of Senator Nicole Ryan and everyone else here in the House in respect of the legislation.”
“Some of the negative consequences are related to fraud and harassment. Senator O'Loughlin will agree with me that at the heart of catfishing there is a fraud and an element of harassment. I take on board what Senator Comyn said about some people being not sure what catfishing means. It might be worthwhile if, when we are discussing it, we indicate the mischief behind it and what we are trying to regulate and, more importantly, outlaw. There are a number of victims involved. There is the individual victim who is deceived into an emotional or financial relationship. As Senator Clifford-Lee indicated happened in her case, there is the person whose identity is appropriated. There are two individuals who are affected by this and are victims of it. We should consider the other legislation we have.”
“I commend and thank Senator O'Loughlin for bringing forward Committee Stage of this important legislation. Like her, I also recognise the work of former Senator Lisa Chambers who played a significant role in initiating the legislation and bringing it through Second Stage in this House. When we consider what has happened in our society over the past 20 years, the real change has been the establishment of the digital sphere. If we were looking at this back in the eighties or nineties, we would not really know what we are talking about here. It has had a transformative impact on all our lives. Much of the online activity has been positive, with the access to information and the ability to communicate with people so quickly. Unquestionably, something that is so dramatic has also had negative consequences.”
“There is a broad recognition on the part of the Government and policymakers that the purpose of our legislation and policy decisions when it comes to gardaí is to ensure that we get them out on the streets. That is where people want to see them. We are in a lucky position whereby there is no place that gardaí cannot go. In fact, what people want is to see more of them in their communities. I again thank the Senator for raising this matter.”
“I thank the Senator. Immigration registration functions were performed by members of An Garda Síochána and we changed that earlier this year. Those functions have been transferred to civilians or members of staff within my Department. We need to keep trying to identify the type of work gardaí are doing at present that can be done by civilians within An Garda Síochána or, as is the case of immigration registration functions, within my Department. I am very committed to the contents of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland report. It has come up with some excellent ideas. The legislation that was suggested in the report has already been enacted, and I commenced it a number of weeks ago.”
“Ultimately it is a matter for An Garda Síochána but I have listened very carefully to what the Senator has had to say and it is part of my policy agenda to ensure we get gardaí out onto the streets where the public want to see them.”
“We need to try to introduce that into all criminal courts as well. However, it is also important that we ensure there is sufficient security within the courts. If gardaí are in courts, it should be for the purpose of giving evidence where it is essential for them to give that evidence. Alternatively, it may be the case that the Garda authorities believe there is a specific security threat and they are required in the court because of that. As the Senator Ryan, I will be in Limerick next Monday. When I get the opportunity to meet members of An Garda Síochána there and commend them on the excellent work they do, I will certainly raise this issue and asking whether it could be resolved through ensuring that we did not have as many members of An Garda Síochána at Mulgrave Street courthouse.”
“I would like to see private security firms doing the type of security work that the Senator Ryan says is being done by members of An Garda Síochána in Limerick but, similarly, we need to change the law to ensure that there is an awareness on the part of the Judiciary that we should not have members of An Garda Síochána present in courtrooms when it is not necessary for them to be there. If we can do those hearings remotely, that should be done. However, it may be the case that there is occasion when the Garda authorities require there to be gardaí in a courthouse. One of the things that An Garda Síochána do is provide a jury minding service. That is something we should take away from An Garda Síochána as well. In civil actions in Dublin there is a Courts Service official who is a jury minder.”
“I note the Senator mentioned there being 16 members of An Garda Síochána in the courthouse. That gives me some cause for concern. I had been informed that the number of full-time members of the Garda allocated was ten. However, whether it is ten or 16, that is far too many. I do not direct operational matters from the point of view of An Garda Síochána. It is not appropriate for a Minister for Justice to say, "I want to see the garda over in a different part of Limerick," I leave that to the Commissioner and the chief superintendents in Limerick. However, it is important that I try, as the Minister for Justice, to ensure we are putting in place principles that will provide guidance to An Garda Síochána.”
“She does not want to see members of An Garda Síochána doing work that could be done by other persons; whether it is civilian members of An Garda Síochána or by private security firms, as she identified is happening in Dublin. The report of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland is something that I want to see implemented. I have included a provision in the general scheme of the Criminal Law and Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2025, which I published two week ago, that seeks to ensure that we have more remote hearings for criminal charges, particularly remand hearings. I hope that will result in fewer members of An Garda Síochána having to turn up in court, whether it is Limerick courthouse in Mulgrave Street or any other courthouse around the country.”
“I thank the Senator for tabling this important Commencement matter. I know the reason she is raising this is, like virtually every other Member of the Oireachtas, she wants to see more members of An Garda Síochána on the streets in their constituencies. I want to see that happen as well. We are in a very fortunate position in this country where most of the public and virtually all Members of the Oireachtas want to see more members of An Garda Síochána in their communities. The reason they want that is to ensure that there is a sense of safety around. It gives people a great sense of confidence if they see members of An Garda Síochána in the area. The Senator mentioned an important point.”
“I will ask Deputies to consider to the regulations when they see them in the near future. I am sure we will have an opportunity to discuss them again.”
“I thank the Deputies. In fairness, the 2024 Act was just commenced last month. Under section 114 of that Act, there is an obligation on me to make regulations in respect of the establishment of local community safety partnerships. I assure Deputies that officials in my Department are finalising those regulations. I will use a term I used previously; I believe I will be able to sign them very shortly. I certainly believe they will be signed and in place before we next have questions to the Minister for Justice. I also think they will be very effective in seeking to achieve what is set out in the legislation, namely to have a broader representation within the partnerships so the issues affecting local communities, not just in respect of policing but also in community safety, can be dealt with in one forum within the local authority.”
“I recognise the importance of elected representatives and we must ensure they remain central to the new partnerships. However, there is broader and different experience that will be included. When the regulations are signed by me, which will be done very shortly, I think the Deputy will be pleased with them. If he is not, I have no doubt I will hear from him.”
“The Deputy makes a very valid point. The whole logic behind establishing the LCSPs was to ensure we broadened it out so that it was not just a member of An Garda Síochána who was having to answer questions related to the HSE or other statutory agencies. As any member of a local authority will know, when it comes to responding to issues that arise in our community, it is very seldom the case there is just one statutory entity of which we can say it has responsibility and it will deal with it. In the area of criminal justice, we know from the many examples we have all received that it can be the Garda in the first instance, but there may also be an issue in respect of housing, the HSE or Tusla. The whole purpose behind the new statutory scheme for local community safety partnerships is so it is broadened out to include them.”
“In advance of the commencement of the Act and in order to be well prepared, my Department has invited local authorities to select suitable chairs through an expression of interest process. I am committed to ensuring the local community safety partnerships are effective and robust from the outset. Over the course of preparing the necessary regulations to establish the partnerships, it became clear they would have to elect a chair from within their membership. I will set out more detail about that in due course, but it is an important part of the accountability of local government.”
“I hope to sign regulations providing for the rules and mechanisms for these community safety partnerships in the very near future. I do not want to give the Deputy a specific date. I am hoping to do it very soon, but it will be done in the very near future. I have also signed into law the order required for the purpose of establishing the steering group that will be necessary to evaluate these new community partnerships. They will be an invaluable addition. They will enable individuals who are local representatives of the community to talk to gardaí and agencies like the HSE, Tusla and Cuan in order to ensure there is a proper discussion of the important information that needs to be communicated in respect of a local community. As for the chair, the role is pivotal to the partnerships achieving their full potential.”
“I thank the Deputy. If he will permit me, I will return briefly to something Deputies Carthy and Gannon raised. They talked about exit interviews from An Garda Síochána. What I should have mentioned in my answer was that exit interviews were done in 2024 and the main reason gardaí left was referred to as "family circumstances", namely, gardaí found it difficult to maintain their careers as Garda members while also managing family life. I thank Deputy Ó Murchú for his question about community safety partnerships. As a former member of a local authority, he will know JPCs were an invaluable way for elected representatives to get information from An Garda Síochána. The purpose of the new scheme of community safety partnerships is to ensure that continues, but that it is broadened with the presence of other statutory agencies.”