Louise O'Reilly
Dublin Fingal West · Sinn Féin · Ireland
“I welcome this debate this afternoon and am happy to be able to make a small contribution to it. I grew up in a Border town. I ended up in that town because my father was a trade union organiser who represented workers on both sides of the Border for a long number of years and, in fact, went on to be based in the North for a long time.”
“I am fortunate enough to represent a constituency that is very firmly in the Dublin–Belfast economic corridor. Before partition, as we know, Belfast was a thriving industrial powerhouse. Partition put a lid on the potential of that city to grow and flourish.”
“When we talk about Irish unity, we should frame that discussion as one about potential for growth, the potential for all-Ireland working and all-Ireland business. Between Belfast and Dublin, there are five universities, numerous colleges of further education and training, and businesses that are ready to scale up.”
“As the debate on Irish unity advances, and it is advancing despite what some of the people opposite would like to happen, we need to frame that discussion in a positive way. We need to look clearly for those opportunities while acknowledging the challenges. We are not blind to the challenges.”
“If her letter does not have any impact - let us be honest; it has not had any impact - the Minister of State might outline what he will do that might go a bit further than writing a letter. We know that devices are essential. We know that parents want their kids to be able to participate.”
“I thank the Deputies for bringing forward this motion. I was chatting to my dad as I was coming in and told him I would be debating this motion in relation to supports for parents this morning. He reminded me, of course, that it was the Labour Party in government that cut those very supports.”
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“As the debate on Irish unity advances, and it is advancing despite what some of the people opposite would like to happen, we need to frame that discussion in a positive way. We need to look clearly for those opportunities while acknowledging the challenges. We are not blind to the challenges. We know there are challenges but we also know that every single one of them represents a reason to end partition.”
“When we talk about Irish unity, we should frame that discussion as one about potential for growth, the potential for all-Ireland working and all-Ireland business. Between Belfast and Dublin, there are five universities, numerous colleges of further education and training, and businesses that are ready to scale up. The Dublin–Belfast economic corridor is 100 miles long and home to one third of the island's population. While there is a lot happening in terms of cross-Border working, there could be a lot more done. The implications of increasing this activity are absolutely positive. Growth, jobs, research and innovation all can and should be achieved within one jurisdiction.”
“I am fortunate enough to represent a constituency that is very firmly in the Dublin–Belfast economic corridor. Before partition, as we know, Belfast was a thriving industrial powerhouse. Partition put a lid on the potential of that city to grow and flourish. That potential needs to be unlocked even further for the benefit of our whole island. Likewise, cities like Derry must be allowed to reach their full potential, unhindered by the constraints of partition. The Border is expensive. London does not care much for the North. When we hear the new Prime Minister talk about devolution, he very rarely, if ever, mentions the North because the North and the people in it have always been little more than an afterthought to the London establishment.”
“I welcome this debate this afternoon and am happy to be able to make a small contribution to it. I grew up in a Border town. I ended up in that town because my father was a trade union organiser who represented workers on both sides of the Border for a long number of years and, in fact, went on to be based in the North for a long time. At that time, we knew, and it is very apparent now, that the Border was a barrier to workers becoming organised. Partition has always served, and will always serve, the interests of elites and never ordinary people because it is ordinary people who have always had to pay the price of partition. When we talk about the fiscal implications, we need to see the advantages and discuss the advantages of ending partition.”
“There is no sign of those costs being reduced. There are plenty of things outlined in the motion - they have been outlined in great detail by Sinn Féin time and again - that the Government could do to support parents in the here and now.”
“If her letter does not have any impact - let us be honest; it has not had any impact - the Minister of State might outline what he will do that might go a bit further than writing a letter. We know that devices are essential. We know that parents want their kids to be able to participate. Let us say that a school has ignored the, I am sure, very strongly worded letter from the Minister. Parents want their kids to be able to participate. For many of them, however, that means getting into debt, going without and, in some instances, cutting back on food. In the middle of a cost-of-living crisis, the Government reintroduced exam fees. The very least it could do is not make matters worse for parents. Parents in this State pay the highest rents in Europe. They pay some of the highest energy costs. They pay the highest childcare costs.”
“She also asked the schools to ensure that no student will be disadvantaged because of his or her circumstances. I do not know why we are having this debate at all if the Minister has written a letter. What precisely happened as a direct result of her writing that letter? I refer to the outworkings of Government policy in the survey Barnardos undertook. One third of parents are getting into debt in order to just pay for the basics. Over 50% of them are very concerned about meeting the back-to-school costs. Some 20% of parents surveyed by Barnardos cut back on food in order to pay their bills. I would say they are very relieved that the Minister wrote a letter. My God - a letter.”
“I thank the Deputies for bringing forward this motion. I was chatting to my dad as I was coming in and told him I would be debating this motion in relation to supports for parents this morning. He reminded me, of course, that it was the Labour Party in government that cut those very supports. Then again, those in that party do have all their best ideas in opposition, as we both remarked, and not for the first time I need not tell you. The Minister indicated that she is very conscious that parents can feel under pressure when some schools seek the use of digital devices for learning. She said that is why she wrote directly to all schools on 25 May and made it very clear that there is no requirement for students to have their own personal devices.”
“There are areas in which the Government delivers services where profit has absolutely no place, home help being one of them and school meals provision being another. The profit motive does not lend itself well to the delivery of public services, but childcare is an area on which we could agree. There is definitely a need for it and there is definitely the appetite in SERI for it.”
“The Minister of State asked me what the community childcare committee in Fingal is doing. I will tell him that it is battling against the privatisation of childcare day in, day out. In our community centres, the vast majority - over 70% - are occupied by for-profit childcare providers. It is an area in which SERI has done fantastic work and has a lot to offer in this space. Unfortunately, when Mr. John Logue reached out to the Minister of State's colleague, the Minister, Deputy Foley, she did not come back to him. He wants to engage. I am absolutely delighted that the Minister of State is meeting with him next week and I hope he gets to discuss the issue of childcare because it is essential. There is so much more that can be done in the social enterprise space.”
“The Government does not seem to be getting any closer to delivering the €200 per week childcare it promised. The way to do it is to engage with social enterprises.”
“Well, just design a programme that will do that because there is a really serious and pressing need for it. I will give the Minister of State an example. In the area known as Fingal, where my constituency is located, there are 63,000 children. Of those, 15,000 are living in poverty or are at risk of it. There are 800 community childcare places. I know from talking to the people on the community childcare committees that they are not hung up on any particular way to fund this. I am continuously struck by the capacity that exists within the social enterprise sector to do that really valuable work. The CSO statistics released in the last fortnight show that unemployment among women aged 35 to 44 has doubled. The rate is still low but it is increasing. There is a real need for affordable childcare.”
“As is always the case with my questions, this question is very straightforward. I ask the Minister of State to concentrate his remarks on the delivery of community childcare. I am interested in knowing what plans there are to scale up the delivery of essential services through the use of social enterprises.”
“It will never be as good and it will never replace the arts, but now is the time for the Government to act, listen to the arts community and move to protect that which we all agree we value immeasurably.”
“We all acknowledged it and we acknowledged in here how important it was when we could not speak to one another that people involved in the creative arts were making it happen in almost impossible situations. We owe them an immense debt of gratitude. This morning, I was honoured to host Disabled Artists, Disabled Academics, DADA, in the audiovisual room. They spoke about the challenges. They stressed that they were not whinging or looking for a pat on the back or for anyone to tell them they were inspirational. They are men and women doing a job. It is really tough but added to that, as well as all of the other challenges they face, which are many, they face the challenge of big tech companies scraping their work and regurgitating it.”
“I thank Deputy Ó Snodaigh for tabling this motion and for all of the work he does in this area with respect to the arts and artists. Right now, we are justifiably and rightly proud of our Irish artists. We have a flourishing creative scene despite all of the barriers - class barriers, the rising cost of living, and dwindling and ever-more scarce support. It is now all the more important that we protect artists and the craft itself. It cannot be a pursuit only for the wealthy or a career where suffering and poverty are the price of entry. We want our artists to flourish. When I was coming over, I was remembering during Covid that arts and creative arts kept us all sane.”
“It is not fair to ask them or any other person to have to choose between waiting 11 or 12 years on a housing list or taking up a job opportunity or an educational opportunity. I think the legislation means that the Government could get working on that very quickly.”
“All the issues the Minister of State has identified - the operational issues, the technological challenges and the concerns about the lack of standardisation - the Minister will be empowered then to deal with, and then we can make a real change. The length of time people spend waiting for social housing, which I fear will get longer because the Government keeps missing its targets, which are already too low, is quite scandalous. I am sure the Minister of State will agree with that. Life happens while you are waiting, and that makes it very complicated for people. The Minister of State has acknowledged that victims and survivors of domestic abuse are a separate and discrete category.”
“There will be one at some point in the future but there is not one now. It would not be appropriate for this woman to go to a refuge in any event because she has somewhere to live now. She is very close to being housed. On the timed amendment, I recognise that in some instances there are genuine issues that have to be worked out but none of those issues prevent this legislation passing here this evening. Any issues with the legislation can, of course, be dealt with on Committee Stage as the Minister of State knows but there is nothing in the legislation that mandates it to happen immediately. The legislation gives the Minister the power to do it.”
“I did go to my constituent on 7 or 8 February after the Tánaiste gave me that commitment and I told her that I thought she would be okay and she would be able to take her time with her and I genuinely hope that she will. The other problem this woman has, through no fault of her own, is that the vast majority of the emergency accommodation is in Dublin city. If people approach staff of the Dublin Region Homeless Executive, they cannot necessarily tell them where they are going to be housed because they are dealing with a constant emergency. Without a guarantee for where she is going to be housed, she has a genuine concern about having to leave the place she is in now. She also has a notice to quit. There is no refuge in north county Dublin, in case the Minister of State thinks that might be a solution.”
“There is nothing in the operational and technological issues the Minister of State has outlined or in the concerns he has about standardisation that should prevent this legislation from going to the next Stage. As my colleague said, any issues with the legislation can be outlined on Committee Stage and can be dealt with then. The legislation does not mandate the Government to provide the passport immediately. It gives the Minister the power to do it. I do not understand why any Minister would not want that power unless he or she was not interested in resolving the issue. I am sure that is not the case but the Minister of State can clarify that in his concluding remarks. This is an issue I have raised previously. I was very taken by this individual case and for that reason I have raised it seven times or more in this House.”
“If people move to another place beyond one list because they simply cannot get anywhere else to live, in that time they could have children, get a job, put down roots, join a club and be a really active member of the community along with their kids being active members of the community and then have to move or be faced with a choice of losing all that time. That is time invested. These are not people who do not work. Most of them work very hard but they do not earn the kind of money that means they can buy a house which is the only way they will get that security. They want that security for their family and to be able to raise their kids knowing where they are going to live this time next year. That is not outrageous or unreasonable.”
“The legislation does not say that the HAP passport, as we have called it, or whatever way the Government wants to put it, has to be introduced immediately. It actually provides for time for that. It gives the Minister the power to do it. The Minister of State is right that there are issues around standardisation but there is not a local authority in the State where a person would wait for less than 11 years. The Minister of State might know. People would be lucky if they were housed in some places after 11 years. People are setting up their whole lives because of this.”
“I have letters, which the Minister has as well because I have sent them to him, from An Garda Síochána saying she cannot go back because that man potentially will still do her, and her children, harm. Her notice to quit expires on 20 July. I am hoping there is something in the piece of paper the Minister of State has that is going to give me some comfort that this woman will be safe. The timed amendment is not often used. It is a facility open to the Government and I understand that sometimes it is necessary. I have brought forward legislation and timed amendments have been moved to them. I get how it works – I have been here and seen it done but I do not see the purpose of it in this instance.”
“Nobody should have to wait the time that people have to wait to be housed in this State. Nobody gets a free house. We know people pay their differential rent. She now finds herself in a situation whereby as a HAP tenant, she might not be covered by that protocol. I just cannot understand that when she spent all those years on the list. She works damn hard in north county Dublin in a job that the Minister of State or I would not fancy doing, but she does it and she has raised her kids in north county Dublin. It is not that she will not move because it is awkward for to get the kids out to school or anything like that; it is that she cannot go back.”
“Nobody explained to her when she fled domestic abuse and a man who was trying to kill her and her kids and she went to north county Dublin. The local authority continued to write to her to check that her circumstances had not changed and she had not somehow fallen out of eligibility. She had not. She has been 14 years on the list and now she is number two on the list for the area where he lives. She has a notice to quit. She is due out of her home on 20 July. Because she is a HAP tenant, she is not covered by that circular. When he Tánaiste told me it would be done and rectified, I told her that. I told her the Tánaiste, the deputy Head of Government, the deputy boss man, said it would be rectified because it is an anomaly. The Minister of State knows that; we all do. It has been created by the housing crisis.”
“Sometimes it seems like people might not acknowledge the work that has gone into a proposal that is being made. It is four or five years since I raised the issue and I raised it in relation to a constituent of mine. I have used various names for her because I will not her name out of fear for what could happen to her. This woman lives in north county Dublin. She was almost murdered by her partner. He served time in prison and the Minister of State will know that people do not go to prison in this State unless they have done something very serious. He nearly killed her and he went to prison. He has done his time; that is how long the housing list is. He is out and he lives in the area where she was originally on the housing list.”
“He said: While I am on my feet, I also want to say the Deputy raised an issue with me before in the House in relation to victims and survivors of domestic abuse, when they are moving from one local authority list to another, and the time they were on the previous list not being recognised. It is an important issue. I acknowledge and thank the Deputy for raising it. On foot of that, the Minister for housing has said he will issue a direction to all local authorities to make sure that issue is rectified. He did not see any of those problems the Minister of State outlined; he just said it would be done and rectified. Those were his words and he is the Minister of State’s boss. I just wonder sometimes when there is confusion like that coming from the Government.”
“I am sure the Minister of State is aware but we are really only having this debate because of the housing crisis being created by his Government and its policies. Notwithstanding that, there are many consequences of its housing crisis and this is one. It does not affect an awful lot of people but for those it does, the impact on them is absolutely huge. The Minister of State cited all the difficulties, including the operational issues, the technological challenges and his concerns about the lack of standardisation. On 5 February, I raised a question on Questions on Promised Legislation on a matter that was unrelated to this. The Tánaiste, the Minister of State’s boss, took the chance to update me.”
“People in my constituency wait on the housing list for over 14 years. These people have been on the list for ten years, meaning they are half a decade away from being housed. They have to go to private rented accommodation, and when they cannot do that, they have to go to emergency accommodation which is both grim and expensive.”
“However, the Government has money to keep them in emergency accommodation, which as the Minister of State and I both know is grim. It is not where he would want to raise his family, certainly not where I would want to raise mine and definitely not where they want to be. I fully appreciate that the Minister of State read out the script on behalf of the senior Minister and, in many ways, I do not envy him having to do that. The family have done everything and they still ended up in emergency accommodation. I ask the Minister of State to please bring this message back to the senior Minister. They ended up in emergency accommodation, which will have to be paid for. Grim and all as it is, it is expensive. The reason they ended up there is that there is not sufficient funding for the acquisition programme. That is what they need.”
“I sometimes wonder if the Minister of State must be embarrassed reading such a script. He said that tenant in situ will never be the sole or even the primary option. I have outlined to him how it was not. When this family got their notice to quit, they sent out hundreds of emails. They replied to hundreds. They registered with estate agents. They tramped the roads. They did everything they possibly could. Their very last resort was to contact a local politician which, as we all know, people do not do easily or lightly, but they do because they have to. So, it was not the only resort. The council was willing to buy the property but it lacked the funding. It had exactly what the Minister of State outlined in his script. No extensive refurbishments were required - happy days; tick that box. What it did not have was money.”
“I am sure I do not need to tell the Minister of State this because he is probably aware of it. Emergency accommodation is very expensive as well as being grim. It is somewhere that he would not want to live and I certainly would not want to live in it either. It is also very expensive. Investing in somewhere permanent for this family to live actually makes sense and there is a good value for money argument to be made in that regard.”
“I certainly would not like my daughter or grandson to live in it. I do not think the Minister of State would like to live in it and I do not think he would like his family to live in it either. However, unless there is investment in the tenant in situ scheme, that is where that family are heading. The mam works in north County Dublin. She has she has a good job and she works hard. The dad is receiving chemotherapy at the moment and he is absolutely frantic about what going into emergency accommodation will mean for his treatment. This landlord was willing to sell to the council under the tenant in situ scheme. We contacted the council and we were told it did not have the funds to be able to purchase it. This family will now join that other family in emergency accommodation.”
“I wrote to the council again on their behalf. The landlord contacted the council. This was a sale that was being done as a result of a bankruptcy, so they were dealing with an agent. The agent was very happy to sell to Fingal County Council. They got the same reply. Their house has now been sold. It has been sold to another landlord and that landlord would like them out quicker than their notice to quit will allow, but they are going to stick where they are. To date, they have sent out nearly 300 requests following advertisements they have seen and, indeed, places where they thought they might get somewhere to live. They, too, fear that they will be heading to emergency accommodation. I am not sure if the Minister of State is aware of what emergency accommodation is like. I am, and I would not like to live in it.”
“They received a notice to quit and their landlord was amenable to selling that property to the council. They contacted the council and got a response, which I have here on my phone. Obviously, I made a representation for them. The response stated that the council responded to the landlord explaining that it is not in a position to accept new expressions of interest in the tenant in situ scheme due to lack of funding and would notify the tenant accordingly. Of course, the tenant knew already. Their notice to quit expired and they are now living in emergency accommodation. Mam, dad and two children are all living in one room, in this heat, with no air conditioning. As the Minister of State can imagine, they are in quite a desperate situation. The second case concerns a family whose notice to quit expires in September.”
“My Topical Issue relates to the tenant in situ scheme and the resulting impact on homelessness in Dublin Fingal West. I submitted this Topical Issue because I gave a commitment to two families in my constituency that if the opportunity presented itself, I would advise somebody in the Government of it. As I said to them, I could not guarantee who it would be given the nature of Topical Issue debates but I would advise somebody in the Government of what is happening. They genuinely feel that perhaps if the Government knew or was aware of the impacts of the policies it decides in this House and puts through with its majority, things would change and it would have some compassion because they are in quite desperate situations. One case involves a family of four - mam, dad and two children - who were living in Rush.”
“As Teachta Cullinane advised, it is a great thing to be able to care for someone. People do, however, fear that element of ageing. I think the Government should reflect on this aspect. It knows what people want. They want to be able to age where they are and to be able to stay at home, and we still do not have a statutory home care scheme. It has been promised and the Minister of State's party has been in government for 15 years. That is long enough to do it, review it, do it better and do it again but it has not been delivered. If the Minister is listening, she will put a rush on doing this.”
“To move from collecting information to delivering services is where the Government should be focusing. I lost my own mam last September. People said to me that she had died very suddenly. At the time, people told me I was lucky that I did not have a long drawn-out illness to deal with. Part of the reason people fear conditions like dementia is because they know what it is like. They know it means that their families will have to fight for every single service. They know it is a constant battle. They know that the likelihood is that they will not have their wishes fulfilled if they want to stay at home and age where they are comfortable. They know that they will be let down and have to become what, effectively, feels like a burden to their family, I am sure, although it is not.”
“I welcome all those people in the Public Gallery watching this debate, particularly Cian and Jordan. I echo what has been said. Their mam would be incredibly proud because they have raised awareness and sparked that conversation. It is so important. The Minister of State alluded to this himself. Awareness is extremely important. To be fair, however, this is a part of a much bigger jigsaw because awareness does not bring with it supports, home care or what people actually need. The Minister of State referred in his script to the statistics available from the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI. I think it is fair to say that we have a very clear understanding of the scale of support needed. We do not need any more reviews and we do not want any more information.”
“I asked her how she felt about this campaign. She said that from the day after she was told of her daughter's diagnosis, the thought that has kept her up and awake at night, every night, is "What is going to happen to her when I am gone?" People say there is no point in worrying about the things that you cannot control, but this is a relentless worry, every night. Along with all the worries that every other parent has, and, believe me, that never stops, she worries about who will look after her daughter when she is gone. She has no faith in this Government. The Minister says in her script that she is aiming for the right support in the right place at the right time. Speaking on behalf of the people I have spoken to, there is no support in any place at any time, and the Minister needs to do better.”
“I join my colleague in thanking the Deputies for bringing forward this motion. I also commend the work of the Before We Die campaign. I had the honour of chairing the petitions committee when its members presented to us a couple of weeks ago. It was a very powerful meeting. I also pay tribute to Nora Roban and the Remember Us group in Balbriggan. Whether the Government works with them or against them, they are going to build their plan of Homes for Us because they are very determined and it is very needed. I urge the Minister to talk to her colleagues and revise her definition of what does and does not constitute a congregated setting. Nobody is talking about going back to the high-walled institutions of the past. Last night, I spoke to a person I know very well about her daughter, who has an intellectual disability.”
“The Taoiseach should withdraw his opposition and work with us and all of the other parties in this House to get the job done.”
“The Taoiseach's fellow countyman said it better than I could. He said that if you fail to prepare, then you may prepare to fail. I was 24 when I voted for the Good Friday Agreement. I brought my daughter in with me. She toddled along and held my hand. My daughter is now a mother. I am a granny and we are yet to see the fulfilment of the promise of the Good Friday Agreement. I will not stand here, nod and say it is okay that the Taoiseach stands in the way of that work. He should reflect on his words but he should also consider the content of our legislation. It is positive, proactive and about discussion. It is about preparation and about making sure we deliver a republic that is worthy of its name by working together and by ensuring we deliver the republic and the promise of the Good Friday Agreement together.”
“In the Taoiseach's script, he tells us that he is worried that this legislation would district from the urgent work being done. I put it to him that this legislation is the urgent work. This is the work that we should be about in this Chamber, representing the views of the majority of people on this island. I grew up in a Border town. I spent from the age of five to the age of 16 living along the Border. I know what that Border did. I know what it did to my community and my country. Of course, I want it gone, and the Taoiseach says that he does as well. I also know that it is not that simple. It will not happen because we want to wish it away. We must work for it. We must prepare for it. We must plan for it, and we must get it right. Unity will not happen by accident. It will only happen when we work for it.”
“Will the Minister of State take back to the Minister a request that engagement starts now to ensure there is additional capacity through the NTA, or whoever it is that has to provide it, to ensure that people can get to and from Flavours of Fingal using public transport? Effectively, and contrary to what the Government has told us about its climate action targets, people will be forced into their cars, which is regrettable.”
“My concern is that there will be traffic congestion, in the first instance, and a reduction in numbers. I have had contact from quite a number of people who told me they look forward to going to Flavours of Fingal and they and their kids travel on the shuttle bus because it is convenient and means they do not have to worry about parking. It is disappointing that the attitude of the Minister is that people can pay €40 for parking and other major events are on, which are more important. I am sure his constituents would like to feel like they were something of a priority for him. They will get that message loud and clear.”
“I thank the Minister of State for the reply. He will forgive me for saying it is an incredibly disappointing reply. Donabate is in the constituency of the Minister, Deputy O'Brien. I am sure his constituents will be very interested to hear that the NTA has other priorities, including Croke Park, Lansdowne Road stadium and Marlay Park, none of which is in Fingal. I appreciate that the Minister of State is taking this on behalf of the Minister. The Minister told us about Nitelink but he should know that Flavours of Fingal is over long before the Nitelink buses start running. In any event, it would have been of absolutely no use to people going to Donabate for what is one of the biggest events of the summer, attended by between 65,000 and 75,000 people.”
“The Taoiseach told her, "I will talk to people to see what can be done there.” He also said, “I will talk to the Minister and see what can be done.” Perhaps the Minister of State has a message from the Taoiseach for us.”
“As a result, they will find themselves in a situation where they have to travel by other means. Added to this is the eye-watering cost of parking a car, which is €40. That is a lot. If someone is bringing a couple of kids, they will want to have a few bob to buy them an ice cream and to fully experience all the delights of the show, but they cannot add €40 on top of that. It is a real ask for families. We really want the Flavours of Fingal to continue to be the success story that it is, but without the shuttle buses, there is going to be traffic chaos. I do not want our big summer festival getting a name as a place that people do not want to go to because of traffic congestion. I am not sure what can be done at this late stage. This matter raised previously in the Dáil by my colleague Deputy Ann Graves.”