Malcolm Byrne
Wicklow-Wexford · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“I appreciate the Minister of State is responding on behalf of the Minister but the response provides nothing new. It is almost a carbon copy of the response I received when I raised this issue in January last.”
“Free and fair trade right throughout history is the greatest example of providing people with employment opportunities and lifting people out of poverty. One of the best examples of this is our being able to trade with Canada.”
“I am sure the Ceann Comhairle will remember being approached by the then principal, staff and others. Pressure has been applied. When capital decisions were being made by the Department of education I asked why this school was not included and what criteria were used.”
“To say that the school, and indeed, the wider area are deeply frustrated by the lack of progress is an understatement. This is an excellent school, but when it comes to its physical infrastructure, the school is in dire straits.”
“As we are moving towards the recess, I thank the Ceann Comhairle, and indeed, the officials in her office and all of the staff across the House for all of their work during the year that has made this place run so smoothly. I wish to raise the question of Bunclody Community College. I have had to do it on a number of occasions.”
“I am conscious the Minister of State referred to additional capital investment in 2027. I fully expect and will continue to campaign to ensure this school is included in the 2027 capital list because it deserved to be addressed before now.”
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“I am conscious the Minister of State referred to additional capital investment in 2027. I fully expect and will continue to campaign to ensure this school is included in the 2027 capital list because it deserved to be addressed before now. I ask the Minister of State to bring back to the Minister, Deputy Naughton, a request that she meet the WWETB, as the patron body, the principal and me to talk about outstanding issues, if any. As the Minister of State said, all of the necessary information has long been provided by the WWETB to the Department. I have outlined the conditions and the Department is aware of them. The Minister of State is right that in times of adversity, it is often the staff and school community that fight better, but these kids and this school deserve a hell of a lot better.”
“I appreciate the Minister of State is responding on behalf of the Minister but the response provides nothing new. It is almost a carbon copy of the response I received when I raised this issue in January last. We talk about the NDP allocation, and the Department's response refers to "a strong emphasis on provision for children with special educational needs" and those who are disadvantaged. This is a DEIS school with a large Traveller population. The school made clear, including in a meeting with the Minister of State with responsibility for special education, Deputy Michael Moynihan, that while it has a number of SEN classes already, there is also a possibility of developing a special school on a site adjoining the school. This school has a superb record of supporting disadvantaged students, yet it seems to be placed at a disadvantage.”
“In Catholic philosophy, purgatory is that period of purification so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. I hope the Minister of State will be able to provide some of the joy of heaven for Bunclody Community College in her response today.”
“I am sure the Ceann Comhairle will remember being approached by the then principal, staff and others. Pressure has been applied. When capital decisions were being made by the Department of education I asked why this school was not included and what criteria were used. I was able to say it is a disadvantaged school, a DEIS school, and one of the top schools in the country for championing support for Traveller education. It is deeply committed to inclusive education for those with disabilities or indeed with exceptional abilities and all students are supported and challenged to thrive. I outlined the physical challenges it faces. I am sure the Minister of State will read out the Department's response telling us the project is at stage 2b. I have regularly referred to stage 2B in the Department of education as "purgatory".”
“It is a split campus, so students have to walk 500 m from one campus in one area of the school to another campus, crossing a busy regional road. That is fine in weather like this, although I know the school is not open at the moment, but the Minister of State, as a teacher, can imagine the pressure that places on students and parents in winter, such as in the winter we just had. When I submitted a parliamentary question to the Department of education on the number of schools in the country operating on split campuses, I found it unusual that this school was one of the schools included in the reply, even though that fact is a critical part of its application for work to be done. The process of redeveloping this expanding and very inclusive school started in 2014.”
“To say that the school, and indeed, the wider area are deeply frustrated by the lack of progress is an understatement. This is an excellent school, but when it comes to its physical infrastructure, the school is in dire straits. Of all the schools in the constituency in terms of physical infrastructure that I deal with, it is the worst that I have encountered. There are few anywhere else in the country that I have come across that are more deserving of the necessary work that has to happen. That is not an exaggeration. I challenge the Minister of State, or indeed, any Deputy to name any other second level school in the country where all but three of the mainstream classrooms are in prefabs. Almost all of the mainstream provision of the school operates out of prefabs. Some of those prefabs are over 20 years old.”
“As we are moving towards the recess, I thank the Ceann Comhairle, and indeed, the officials in her office and all of the staff across the House for all of their work during the year that has made this place run so smoothly. I wish to raise the question of Bunclody Community College. I have had to do it on a number of occasions. This is an excellent and very inclusive school in Bunclody, County Wexford on the Wexford-Carlow border. It has 310 students. It has had a 42% increase in enrolments since 2019. It has an incredibly dedicated principal, staff and board of management, but it also has great supports from the wider Bunclody community. The local councillor there, Barbara-Anne Murphy, has regularly raised this as one of most critical issues around the long-term development of the Bunclody community.”
“Free and fair trade right throughout history is the greatest example of providing people with employment opportunities and lifting people out of poverty. One of the best examples of this is our being able to trade with Canada. We know the success of this relationship here in the South but Canada is Northern Ireland's fourth largest global export market after Ireland, the US and Germany in engineering, manufacturing, financial services and insurance. A message going out that is saying we are not going to support trade deals with Canada is not in the best interest of the young people of Northern Ireland. I welcome this debate but it has to be grounded in realism. The difference is that we have to set out that the vision we have will be at the centre of the European Union and that it will be one of a trading nation working together.”
“While I appreciate that she is not present, please bear in mind that, as recently as 2021, Mary Lou McDonald was sharing a platform with Nigel Farage about their vision for the European Union. In terms of our economic opportunities, we have to be right at the heart of the European Union. I noticed that Deputy Bennett quoted Parnell. I was glad, as he would be a constituent of mine if he was alive today. One thing that needs to be remembered about Parnell is that he was pro business and pro trade. Parnell owned quarries near Arklow, he had sawmills and he was involved in gold prospecting. He saw the economic potential of this island. The other message we need to send out if we are to grow this economy is that we are pro-trade.”
“I have always been very proud of, and the parties on this side of the House have been consistent in our support of, the European Union and the opportunities it has presented for this island but the greatest advocate for how the European Union has been able to change this island was John Hume, who saw the potential of the EU not just to allow the island to grow economically, but also socially. The SDLP and the Alliance Party have been consistent in their support for the EU, but Sinn Féin needs to be much more clear. It needs to move away from that Eurocritical position it had. Sinn Féin was the only party that put up posters after the Brexit referendum.”
“When we talk about economics, it is about the economic vision we need to present in this country. For me and for young people on both sides of the Border, the vision has to be one of investing in education and research, continuing to be a pro-trade island, which is essential for the island, and being at the centre of the European Union. We need to talk about that far more. Brexit robbed people, not just in the North, but particularly young people, of so many opportunities.”
“Critical to the development of any economy is human capital and I am very proud about the fact that, in the South, we have one of the highest rates of participation in further and higher education. I commend the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, on her leadership in expanding the apprenticeship offerings. However, the way in which the Executive in the North operates sees an inhibitory cap on the number of university places, which contributes to a brain drain from the North. We have long seen a tradition, particularly among those from unionist communities, of going to university, particularly in Scotland, and not returning. We have to look at how we invest in human capital well into the future. That is why some of the research initiatives under the shared island unit have been important.”
“I agree with Deputy Farrell when she says that what we have to consider is how this is about workers, young people and the opportunities we will present to them. There are good examples of work that is being done. I cite Tourism Ireland, for example, for its work to market the island of Ireland quite successfully. In terms of practical measures, we could increase its budget to allow it to do more of that. When tourists come, they travel all over the island and do not tend to see the Border. There is a lot of good work being done in the shared island unit. I agree with Deputy Gibney when she talked about some of the cultural co-operation that was needed.”
“According to the evidence, the cost of unifying both sides since 1990 is estimated to have been about €2 trillion, yet we still have a situation where GDP per capita in east Germany is just 66% of that in the west. As I said, I do not want to concentrate too much on the figures, and the critical issues that were there as that economy grew and emerged were around social cohesion, cultural recognition and acceptance of institutional legitimacy. Those debates also have to be part of the discussion around the economy. There are crucial differences in our economies. For instance, 15% of the entire workforce here in the South is employed in the public sector while the figure in the North is 30%. That is a quite different economic model and it is something we need to look at.”
“A lot of what we have been talking about here are the issues of fiscal transfers and the sums of money involved, but we need to have broader discussions. There are different economic models operating on both sides of the Border. I am particularly glad to be hearing some members of the Opposition praising so strongly the strength of the economy here in the South, which we do not always hear. When we talk about the approach to the economy that will operate in future on this island, particularly in terms of young people who are looking at what the constitutional arrangements will be, the economic model we will offer will be critical. I said last week that German reunification was quite different because, at that time, there was much more of a desire among everybody in Germany to reunify.”
“I welcome this debate. As I indicated during the discussions on Irish unity last week, we should always be open to discussing any possibilities for new constitutional arrangements or co-operation on this island or between these islands. At all stages, it is critical that the discussion be evidence based, fully transparent and honest. It cannot just be a discussion purely about the economy. It has to be about society more generally. As the Tánaiste indicated at the start, what is important at all times during our discussion on these issues is that we look to uphold the principles of the Good Friday Agreement, arguably the real sign that politics does work. There is always the challenge that, when romantic idealism meets economic realism, there can be quite a shock.”
“The Taoiseach is right that the bilateral relationship between Ireland and Spain is very important, as is our partnership in the EU. Following on from that point, my sister lives in Seville and every summer she travels back. She takes the ferry from Bilbao to Rosslare with my two young nieces. The challenge is because of heat. It is becoming increasingly difficult to live in parts of Spain where temperatures regularly exceed 40°C during the summer months. I fully expect that more tourists will come to Ireland to escape continental heat. While it is very pleasant here, the impact of climate change has to remain at the top of the EU's agenda. I would like the Taoiseach's assurances that that will be the case.”
“While we have a very strong economy and, in overall terms, full employment, I am concerned about the fact that youth unemployment has now hit a rate of 10.8%. That is in the region of 37,000 young people. We are also seeing a situation now where graduate unemployment is higher than the national unemployment rate. Some of this is obviously because there is reduced hiring in consumer-facing sectors. There is a concern about ensuring that work pays, but we are living in a time where we are seeing more access to education and training than before. It is a concern that if young people feel they are alienated from society because they do not have employment opportunities, it could have long-term repercussions. What approach is the Government taking to tackling this issue?”
“Some incredible work has been done by, for example, the clinical research centre in UCD but I am quite certain that if we knew we could share our data in an anonymised way to inform research into dementia or other conditions, we would be happy to do so. We need a greater emphasis on clinical research.”
“One of the most joyous days I remember from a number of years ago was the opening of the day care centre in Riverchapel by the ASI. It just involved chatting to people and their families. On that day, somebody told me it is a place where they are understood. We should invest in more of those kinds of supports around the country. The final thing I will mention is clinical research, which is critically important. As a society, we must continue to invest in research into dementia. We are about to embark on one of the biggest transformative projects ever undertaken in healthcare in this country - the digitalisation of health records. I have always been of the view that if we could use that data in an anonymised fashion to inform clinical research, that has the potential to be transformative.”
“Growing up, she hated when people used bad language and now she swears like a trooper. It is about understanding those changes. These are wonderful people and they deserve dignity and support. As colleagues have said, it is not just the diagnosis for the person. It is also about how to support the family, loved ones and those around the person. We also need to look in a greater way - I was conscious of this and Deputy Jen Cummins mentioned it - of how we talk to children and young people so they can understand the condition and how to engage. Specific measures in that regard are important. Providing the support of the dementia advisory service is critical because different people will have different needs. As Deputy Troy said, some need support at home and others may need to be placed in care.”
“Like colleagues, including Deputy Troy, I also praise the Minister of State's predecessor, Deputy Butler, who put this issue on the political agenda. I know the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, will continue with that. It is important that we have a cross-party group in the House. My colleagues, Deputy Devlin and Senator O'Loughlin, have done huge work on it. It is an issue on which we should co-operate, in as far as possible, to be able to better understand among ourselves the impact of dementia and what we need to do. As I and everyone have said, every family is impacted and in different ways. I recall my grandmother. I would have great chats with her and then a few minutes later I would have to repeat the same story. My aunt currently has dementia.”
“Like others, I welcome Jordan and Cian Adams who are here. I had the privilege of meeting them with Deputy Carrigy earlier. I thank them for all their work in raising awareness of frontotemporal dementia, FTD. They are the FTD Brothers. It was an incredible achievement to run 33 marathons in 33 days, not just for the money they raised for the Alzheimer society and their foundation, but for the awareness raising. People from my running club joined them. As someone who has a bit of experience of running, I know that running 33 marathons in 33 days is not easy. I think they made a mistake in picking Wicklow town to finish in, given the hills there. It is an incredible achievement and I commend them on being able to tell their story in such a way.”
“I am sure the Minister of State will be struck that while often in these Houses when we have debates there is disagreement, this is an issue about which there is cross-party agreement and even unity. It has had an impact on every family and every community. The Minister of State is personally deeply committed to working in this area. Having these kinds of debates or discussions shows there is a lot more that unites us around particular issues. The suggestions coming from all sides of the House are about how to come up with solutions. As Deputy Troy mentioned, I hope the Minister of State will meet the Alzheimer Society of Ireland. I think he will have the support of everyone in seeking to look at ways in which we can support those with dementia and invest in research to be able to better understand and tackle the condition.”
“The Minister is right that there are broader issues in respect of education and guaranteed stable incomes, which are challenges for agriculture more generally. However, to attract young people to stay in or come into the career, these measures are critical.”
“I welcome that commitment. I certainly agree with the Minister. It is interesting that the European Commission's proposal aims for 24% of farmers to be new or young farmers by 2040. That is very ambitious. With regard to the strategies, we need to ensure that agriculture is sustainable. That is the kind of goal we need. I praise the work of Macra na Feirme. The Minister will be aware of how Macra operates in his own county. From regular engagements with Macra in Wicklow and Wexford, I know it is very active in this space. We need a succession scheme that supports young farmers and older farmers as that managerial role transitions from one generation to the next. There are some measures in place to do that. We need certainty and legally binding ring-fencing of funding for young farmers under the next CAP to support generational renewal.”
“Will we see a significant package dedicated to succession and generational renewal developed as part of the next CAP and, most importantly, here domestically?”
“I welcome the Minister's personal commitment to succession and generational renewal. He is right to say it is not just an Irish issue. He will know about the commission on generational renewal. He has been very strong on its recommendations. Some of them apply to the next round of CAP. The Minister will have to work with his fellow Ministers and with Commissioner Hansen to achieve some of those goals. Others are domestic, however. The Minister is correct about access to land and finance. These are key measures to support succession. Commissioner Hansen has spoken about guaranteeing that all member states invest at least 6% of their agricultural spending on measures to promote generational renewal. The Commission's report talks about 8%.”
“Given that one of the greatest challenges for Irish farming continues to be the ageing demographic and the low percentage of young people who are involved, will the Minister provide an update on measures to support farm succession and generational renewal?”
“We should think about the achievements it could have if it were able to have access to some of this data in partnership with other clinical research centres.”
“I welcome that commitment. It will be transformational. It is my own view, and I do not think it is underestimating it to say, that our records not being digitalised is probably costing our health service up to a billion euro a year in terms of delays and in the failure to be able to use some of that data towards clinical research. We need to start to talk about a campaign for when we move to that situation to encourage citizens to agree to this data being used in an anonymised form to inform clinical research, which will result in further efficiencies. I am worried that we are not moving quickly enough on some of this. Along with the digitalisation process we also need an information campaign to explain to citizens the benefit of what we are actually achieving. There have been 20 years of the Clinical Research Centre at UCD.”
“Will the Minister give assurances that, with citizens' consent, there is the possibility that anonymised health records can also be used for clinical research? That would make a lot of sense in terms of how that informs our health service. I would be grateful if the Minister could provide us with an update.”
“I welcome in particular the moves towards the digitalisation of life events. I commend the work of the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer on everything that is being done there. It is also very important not just to have the business case but that there is also the technological know-how around what it is we are hoping to achieve. One of the most critical things the Minister's Department will be overseeing is the digitalisation of health records, obviously in conjunction with the Department of Health. It is deeply frustrating to me how long it is taking. I would like assurances and perhaps the Minister will outline where we are with the plan for awarding of contracts on that.”
“I ask the Minister for Public Expenditure; Infrastructure; Public Service Reform and Digitalisation the criteria applied in assessing projects under the digital public service transformation fund, including the way in which service improvement, efficiency gains and potential for wider roll-out are considered.”
“I appreciate the guidelines for the responsible use of AI are very important and we do need to have human oversight but at different levels of Government this is moving at different speeds and it varies from Department to Department.”
“I welcome and support the views expressed by Deputy Boland and I welcome the Minister's commentary. The experience has been that across Departments, the level of engagement with AI differs. Specifically when we are talking here about public sector procurement, which was mentioned, we need to explore the use of agentic AI. I want to be clear there should always be human oversight in this space but I mean the use of agentic AI in, for instance, how we can map vendor capabilities to Government needs, in terms of tender design, and particularly in terms of intelligent bids and contract monitoring. I often say that if we were able to use agentic AI in the case of the national children's hospital, for instance, where so many variables were being addressed it could be done more efficiently.”
“I commend the work of the shared island unit, but I will outline a concern I have. Around the time of the Good Friday Agreement and soon after it, some 20 or 25 years ago, there were far more cross-Border exchanges going on than there are now among community, youth, sporting and cultural groups. There were far more east-west exchanges happening at the time as well. Those exchanges are not happening to the same extent. I also find it bizarre meeting young people in my constituency who have travelled all over Europe and the world, but have never been to the North. We need to explore to a far greater extent how we can exchange and get groups of people on this island and these islands working closer together. This is a welcome debate.”
“If there is agreement, we should be moving towards something where there is a general consensus that exists on this island. As somebody who campaigned on both sides of the Border for the Good Friday Agreement as a student, one of things that inspired me about that was listening to people from all communities who spoke about hope, and how they were able to feel that they were part of this new arrangement. Yes, there were challenges and the Good Friday Agreement asked many very awkward questions but key to, and underlining that, was hope. As part of this discussion, what we have got to ensure is that for all sectors of our communities, there is that hope and a sense of building that shared identity and, I believe, a common home in Europe. The role of the European Union should not be understated.”
“It will mean, for those of us in the South, facing up to some very uncomfortable questions but it is important that we do that. I share Deputy Currie's concern about very strict timelines. There will be some people who will be able to move much more quickly than others. There will be others for whom it will take time to present but the lesson we have learned from any time there has been a referendum held on these islands, either here in the South or with Brexit or Scotland, is that if we do not know all the facts and if all issues are not explored in great detail, then there will naturally be a conservatism and a fear among our people. I do not want to wait to see when in the opinion of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland a majority may exist.”
“In many ways, for the new nation I believe we will be building, we will need to look at the South African experience, where we will be bringing together people with very diverse views and backgrounds but shaping a new nation and seeking ways in which a common identity can be built. Whatever happens in the context of the 8 million or so people living on this island, there will be 1 million who will still be very strong in their British identity, in some way, and there will be about 750,000 who are neither green nor orange and who have come from outside of these islands to make this their home. It is critically important that we ensure every individual and citizen who lives on these islands feels part of whatever new arrangement we intend to build. That means that everything needs to be on the table.”
“I, too, welcome this debate. It is an important discussion to have in this House around what possible future constitutional arrangements we can have on this island. It is important that we set out the vision for all of the people on this island and the opportunities that may present. I sometimes think this debate can be couched in very simplistic language. A new Irish arrangement is not simply going to be a case of people marching up to Stormont and planting a tricolour in front of that building. Indeed, the unity we may see on this island will not be similar to what we saw in Germany in 1990.”
“I agree with Deputy Geoghegan on that question. I appreciate the point the Minister of State made in response to my amendment but it is important to clarify what the role will be of the AI office when something falls between the designated competent authorities. I am conscious that the clock is running down, and my next point speaks to the fact that we did not get to talk to a lot of the other amendments, but I did get to raise, once again, that the Civil Service seems to have chosen to discriminate against county councillors being employed by this body. That is very unfair.”
“It should be able to help all of us as citizens and all enterprises around the country to know how best to responsibly, ethically and safely use AI to deliver better services for our citizens or our customers.”
“I know where Deputy Murphy is coming from on conflicts of interest and I think that could happen. However, I believe it will inhibit innovation if there are essentially two layers of regulation. That is something we certainly want to avoid. A lot of Deputy Gibney's amendments are well intentioned. I support the idea of including ethical and responsible in what we need to do. It is a culture we need to embed. I am one of those who sees the enormous potential of AI but it all depends on how we use it. Having an ethical and responsible framework is critical and we need to embed that in enterprise as much as in healthcare, education and other spaces. I think this speaks to all of the amendments. This office should be an enabling office.”
“What it has to do is ensure that if you are an enterprise developing an AI product or service, you know you have an existing regulator that you deal with and are responsible to it. The role of this office, which is why I proposed this amendment, is that where the gaps may fall with those existing authorities, it will be in a position to identify the gaps and make the decisions. Part of how I see its role is that if an SME wants to look at deploying AI to deliver its goods or services more effectively or efficiently, this office will support and enable it in being able to do it. It will be able to have guided it through the process. It will make sure that the regulators are doing their jobs. It speaks to our vision as to where the office is. I see it as having more of a promotional and enabling role.”
“I am proposing amendment No. 6 but it speaks to the broader set of amendments. It is about what the purpose of the artificial intelligence office is. I might thread the contentions of Deputy Murphy and Deputy Geoghegan. I agree somewhat with Deputy Murphy that if the role of this office and the ecosystem we are creating is a distributive regulatory model, our critical point is about ensuring that the existing regulators are strong enough to manage their own sectors and that this body is a co-ordinating and enabling body. I would be worried if this starts to become a “thou shalt not” regulator because if it does, it will not support that agility in respect of Deputy Geoghegan's point about how we can help support business and enterprise.”
“I agree that we should not be overly prescriptive. In her response, the Minister of State might come back to the youth advisory panel issue as well.”
“I appreciate that the Minister of State's signature is the final signature that goes on that and she does not have a role in picking the individual, but Deputy Gibney and others have made the point that whoever takes that role, because they are going to be there for the first five years, will be shaping the direction of the office. In the context of this legislation, it would be useful for the Minister of State to give us a clear indication of when the name of that individual will be known and the CEO-designate will be appointed. Again, I agree with the overall context of not being overly prescriptive, as time goes on, when we are recruiting for board members. The Minister of State might outline when that recruitment process is going to start on the basis of this legislation. I accept the Minister of State's bona fides.”
“It is unfair to say that the Minister of State has not been listening because I think she has. What I would say to Deputy Gibney is that the legislation provides for the formal appointment by the Minister following a process, which is pretty standard. In fairness, I recall this role being advertised on publicjobs.ie . LinkedIn actually recommended it to me at one stage. The closing date for this was at the end of March. It would be useful to assure the House, particularly if we are looking at this office being up and running within a month - the Minister of State said that the process is coming toward a conclusion - when we will actually know who the CEO-designate is going to be. The closing date for the process was three months ago. The Minister of State is expecting it to go through publicjobs.ie .”
“The Minister of State and I were quite influential during the online safety legislation debate, as was Deputy Carrigy, on ensuring we had a youth advisory panel to work with the online safety commissioner in Coimisiún na Meán. We see it in the Office of the Ombudsman for Children and in other areas. This is critical, particularly for children and young people, who are one of many vulnerable groups, to ensure their voice has input in this. I would like to hear in the Minister of State's response a commitment to establish a youth advisory panel and an update on the CAO process, and get a clear understanding of what, if this is the board being appointed, the purpose of this organisation is and how those filling it will meet that purpose.”