Michael Fitzmaurice
Roscommon-Galway · Independent Ireland · Ireland
“Basically, there was no Exchequer money at that time but we were still able to keep the bus service going. Unfortunately, there have been reviews, public consultations and various documents since then.”
“I thank the Tánaiste for that. The number was 120,000 in 2018. Think back, however, and you will see that it was 135,000 or 140,000 in the eighties. That was the base figure at a time when Ireland was awash with money.”
“A few weeks ago, I brought to the attention of the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, a problem regarding apprenticeships. In fairness, she rang me last Sunday evening. Over the past few weeks, she has resolved this issue, which had given rise to problems for many apprentices. I thank her for resolving it.”
“I handed that list to the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan, and he sent it on to the relevant Department. You can go from Boyle to Taghmaconnell in Roscommon, right through Fuerty, Athleague and other areas all the way into Galway and you will encounter the same problem. We can give out about what is happening, but we need to solve it.”
“They picked up students and brought them to national schools and secondary schools. Those buses were owned by the State. Ireland had, on average, a population of 3.5 million during the eighties. At that time, we were transporting between 135,000 and 140,000 children to school.”
“An awful lot of the children I am talking about have had concessionary tickets for the past two years. When the contracts are being drawn up, I just do not know why they to not reference 23- , 33- or 50-seaters. If this is done and if the population increases, all involved would under the procurement rules, be able to adapt.”
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“The Taoiseach's new legislation - and I wish him well on it - has nothing to do with this. How are we going to get these people to do their jobs efficiently, properly and fairly for the people of this country?”
“These are two agencies set up by different Governments - not the current Government but different Governments. These are two agencies that are failing people in this country.”
“"The system," he said, is "f" and it ended with "d". I would use the word "broken". That is the word of a person who is creating jobs in this country. That is An Bord Pleanála, ABP. The State is also responsible for the EPA. A few months ago, I saw George Lee talking about peat being extracted illegally. A person went through one county and we will have a report next week to show that with regard to everything on one county, misinformation was given out. At the moment the EPA is talking about farmers. At the moment, outside every water treatment plant, where the water is exiting, there are enough videos done by ordinary people right around this country to show what is coming out at the exit. Why are there not analytics or basic information they can put there to know the flow and the type of stuff coming out?”
“The EPA. An Bord Pleanála was set up by the State. I got a message the other day from a guy I know in the west who employs 200 people. Howya Fitz? Eighteen months now and we are still waiting for planning. €3 million spent before that. €3 million to spend. Someone else called last week from An Bord Pleanála to have another walk around. Business doesn't wait, Fitz. We have worked in specialised manufacturing, in pharmaceuticals and in microchips. We are now in Denmark, Sweden and Norway. 200 people employed, 40 more jobs to be created. I am fed up of State agencies. Denmark want us to move production with a building straight away, no objections. They appreciate business. Sad to say, but we have always tried to make sure we create jobs in Ireland. It's a sad thing to say, Fitz, that we may have to move.”
“I wish the Taoiseach well with the new legislation he is bringing forward in relation to infrastructure. If it is not emergency legislation, we will be caught again down the road with regard to housing, motorways, roads, waterways and sewerage. How would the Taoiseach like to get this message? I welcome the new legislation but this is another part. The Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, was set up by the State.”
“The number of turbines they are putting up around the country is phenomenal. In parts of Roscommon, I see some of the crowds that put them up. It is like turning money. They put it up, roll it going for a few years and sell it on. How many of our turbines and wind farms are owned by foreigners at the moment? That is the one thing we need to look at. To people tonight who are looking in, I support the Bill. I ask the Deputy to put it to a vote. Amendments do not wash. The fight will have to go on. The commitment is not there to resolve this issue.”
“We are supposed to be here to listen to the people and to support them but instead of that, we will kick the ball down the road another bit and sure look it, something else will crop up then and we will kick it another bit. It is nearly like that game they play in Kerry where they throw the ball down around bends and sure, we will never find it. Then we have another situation that has developed and is happening in parts of Roscommon. People gave up their bogs to Bord na Móna years ago. Bord na Móna was set up for proper reasons and I have no problem with that. They are going in now and digging up massive areas of bog and are putting up turbines. They do not even want to be talking about how they once used to be at turf or the bog or anything. They are the clean, green company now.”
“For four years, those DMAPs were left there and never done. That is the first part of the jigsaw in getting it going. The sad reality is - and let people out there looking in tonight understand - there is only one way you can do it. You have to, as a community, get together, which is a sad thing for a politician to have to say. Unite as a group in your area. You have to put in objections and do you know what? With the way An Bord Pleanála is granting these turbines or wind farms, as they are called, the only solution people have, which is a sad reality, is try to raise money together and try to fight it in the courts. That is some statement coming from people who are supposed to be legislators.”
“Let nobody tell me that the Bill that Deputy Brian Stanley put in - I do not know how many years ago it was when he put it in - could not have been looked at since then in order that we would know the types of guidelines, regulations or whatever we are going to do. What we will do now again is say we will have another look at it. The facts are - and people should understand them out there - that the commitment is not in this Dáil to make sure that wind turbines are far enough away from people's houses. I believe in turbines offshore - 100%. There is a huge opportunity but, of course, that opportunity was where the designated maritime area plans, DMAPs, for the west coast were not done, so we cannot kick off the whole process. The former Minister, Eamon Ryan, who was supposed to be a Green Minister, was over it at the time.”
“I see it in Clonbern and all parts of County Roscommon, where there are 11 different applications in at the moment. We get calls from all over the country. There is a corridor, you could say, from above Tuam and Belclare right down Lavally, Clonbern, heading to Glenamaddy and heading on. What is it doing? Communities that worked together, put football pitches together and helped elderly people together are being split down the middle. Those are the facts of what is going on in every community around this country. I am here since the end of 2014. I have listened to people say wind guidelines are going to come and come.”
“First, I welcome the Bill and I support it. What we heard from the Government side is just the usual palaver. I remember Sinn Féin bringing a Bill forward on the Shannon, to have one body over it. It was kicked down the road for nine months and we never saw it to this day. That is the reality of what is going on here and I think the people out there should understand this. We are after listening to Deputies speak about places right around this country, in Laois or wherever, where people are in trouble with wind turbines. The facts are that unfortunately, when what I call vultures come to an area, some people will make money because they will offer €30,000 or €40,000 for the turbine. Undoubtedly, people will accept it but the consequences of what it is doing to communities around this country are unforgivable.”
“If the Government wanted to do something, it would give a rebate on the likes of HVO. We need to look at the way lorry drivers, hauliers and people who own lorries are being treated in this country. Also, auto-enrolment is coming in January, and while it is one of these things that has to be done for workers, it will cause a problem for small two- and three-person businesses. Let us be honest about it. I have talked to a number of people who say this will be a problem in the industry. I will ask one thing. How come, when we go to London or France with a truck, we are screwed in each place by the €10 or €20 that has be paid ahead of that truck? Eastern bloc lorry drivers or lorry owners are coming across here, cutting the daylights out of it and they are not hit like our guys are hit when they go out of the country.”
“People are coming in from eastern bloc countries and are cutting the daylights out of it. They have a different rate for their drivers, tyres, insurance and every part of the truck you have to do. They are cutting the daylights out of our hauliers here. If you try to get someone to even drive a lorry, it costs between €5,000 and €7,000 for them to get their test, do their certificate of professional competence, CPC, and go right through the whole lot. We are driving youngsters away from going near trucking. On the environment, I acknowledge a rebate is there at the moment, but for HVO, which would cut emissions by 90%, although it is dearer fuel, there is no rebate. People talk about COP30, COP40 or whatever they want to talk about, but in actual fact they are not interested.”
“-----the road. The facts are that two more swipes are catching the mirrors of the buses going to school, plus the trucks. That is the reality of it. The quality of roads is a problem. The reality for truck drivers at the moment is they buy a truck and pay €46,000 in VAT. They pay 23% VAT for every drop of diesel they have and 19 cent of every litre is carbon tax, which is another tax. If they need a trailer, there is a tax. There is VAT on tyres and another tax to get rid of tyres. I have covered carbon tax. Looking at the amount of tax, and they talk about "keep her lit" and "keep on trucking", I will tell you one thing: I do not know how the exhaust is even going with the amount of money that has to be paid on one lorry in tax. There is another problem we have allowed in this country.”
“I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate. People need to realise that about 165 million tonnes of goods are hauled around this country every year and 13.6 billion miles are done by hauliers. I have a truck licence and I drove trucks a lot of my life. Anyone who knows it will see the council go along and take two swipes of the road, but the third and fourth swipes are needed where there is a mirror of a bus, lorry or anything that is going along. Let no one tell me that a bird has a nest on the side of-----”
“If it does not do that, it will not be tomorrow or next year or the year after that we will see the results. It will be in nine and ten years' time that the farmers of Ireland will suffer for this.”
“As has been brought up - I welcome this point as well - the poultry sector in Ireland will be decimated by this deal. There is also the issue of traceability and hormones. We all know what is going on. They built a road through the rainforest for COP30 and these are the people who will be saving the world. The Minister and the Government have to make a decision. Last year, they assured the Irish people, not alone during the summer but before the election as well. Plenty of politicians who are elected here met the farming organisations right around their constituencies and guaranteed them that there was no way they would let this deal through. Sadly, tonight I am a bit hoarser than I was a year ago. Some of us have stood by this. This Government needs to stand up for the Irish farming sector and be counted.”
“I welcome Ciaran Mullooly and the rest of the MEPs such as Michael McNamara, who have gone to the courts to try to do something. I am not a believer in the European Court of Justice, ECJ, because I think it is a kangaroo court and I do not think we will get what we deserve out of that. Our MEPs need to build relationships, our Government needs to build relationships and we on the agriculture committee will build relationships that are as good as possible. However, at the end of the day, this will be sorted in the Council of Ministers. If the Government has the liarthróidí, do not be afraid to be on the other side of the fence. Do not be afraid to say you do not agree with what the EU is doing and you are opposing it, and let others stand up with you. The simple reason is that there will be 7 million more cattle from now to 2033 in Brazil.”
“In the last couple of weeks, we heard the Commissioner talk. The Commissioner was in Ireland and stated very clearly, in committee room two, that if cattle or beef prices dropped 6%, 7%, 8% or 9% per year, the handbrake would not come on. During the week you would not know if it is the cable that is gone in the handbrake with the way it is now. They will not give a yes-no answer because they are muddying the water and leaving farmers not knowing what the terms and conditions are. The fact is that if prices do not drop by more than 10%, farmers are in trouble. That has not changed. This is a grubby deal for the simple reason that it has been split in Europe so that there will be no vote in this Parliament here. We can blame someone else and say they did that abroad in Europe.”
“Do not give a promise a year ago that the Government will do something if it is not going to deliver it. Do not fool the people around this country and in the agricultural sector if it will not deliver what it said it would. Tonight, Deputy Martin Kenny and all of the representatives in agriculture had a meeting with the Polish committee on agriculture. They are fully opposed to Mercosur. They will work with us. In the committee, we are trying to build relationships. We are going to talk to the French, the Austrians and the Italians. This work on the Mercosur deal should have been done by our Minister already to build relationships everywhere. The Polish are completely opposed to it, so we have allies if we want to use them, or do we have the towel thrown in, with the secret deal done behind the scenes?”
“I welcome the farming organisations. I welcome this motion. In the summer of 2024, when the political machines were flying around this country, the promises to all of the farming organisations, farmers and voters that Mercosur would be opposed were plenty. In November, it was said again. I was looking at the programme for Government again this evening. It stated that the Government would "work with like-minded EU countries to stand up for Irish farmers and defend our interests in opposing the current Mercosur trade deal." What I have heard tonight is like a fella sitting on the fence and a fella who is going to fall into Ursula von der Leyen's side of the field, not into the side of farmers right around the country. It was astonishing to hear a Minister for agriculture basically say we will look at this, that and the other.”
“In fairness to the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, he stood up and now it is way better than what was going on before. It is despicable that somebody who has been in the country for six years has not been processed. This is not acceptable either to the person who comes in or to the State's system. It is not working, to put it simply. I ask the Government to be fair to everyone but the one thing it has to do is when it makes a decision, it makes a decision. A lot of people are chancing their arm coming into this country; let no one say there is not. People are sick of what is going on. I also ask the Minister of State about the courts system and whether a new system has to be set up. I know this takes resources and it takes more money-----”
“It is not a thing where we would be able to stop people coming into the country via Northern Ireland and southern Ireland, but the bottom line is that we should have a process whereby within the first six weeks, a decision should be made on whether the person can stay. We should have a section in the courts so if the person wanted to go to the courts, he or she can deal with the courts and go through the different process. The whole process should be finished inside six months. When that is done and once that decision is made, if a person is staying they are staying if a decision is made that way. However, if a person is to be deported it should not be a case of "Rock on and whenever you get chance, head off". We need to tighten that system up whether we like it or not.”
“We need workers in this country from different countries. We need to simplify the process, under the enterprise system, for those coming through. A lot of businesses are looking for and need workers, including hospitals and hospitality. We need doctors, nurses, and nursing home workers. There is not one person in the country who disputes that. No one could condone what we witnessed the other night in Drogheda, or any gardaí getting hurt. It was despicable. I want to be very clear on that. There is a fact, however, that I also want to talk about. It is not acceptable if somebody comes into the country and basically gets rid of their paperwork, to put it very simply.”
“Under the farm to fork strategy, beef prices are good at the moment. Dairy might have slipped a bit but it is still not too bad. However, there is a major problem arising in the pig industry where prices have dropped 30 cent a kilogram. Has the Government engaged, or will it engage, with the farming sector to see how it can help a sector that is starting to struggle at the moment?”
“Accommodation-wise, we will not be able to sort it and, on top of that, as a country, we will not be able to afford the cost of it.”
“I have had a few conversations with the Minister for justice and I acknowledge that he is trying to make changes. The reality, however, is that it is neither good for the person looking for asylum or good for the State if something is dragging on for six years. Those are the facts of the matter. Two years ago, I chased up on the question of how somebody is identified and we were told by the Garda at the time that the process was fool-proof. It has since been proved not to be fool-proof. We need to make sure, in relation to identification, that we know who is coming into the country. I welcome what the Taoiseach has said. We need a debate here. We need to tighten up and bring in new legislation in order that this does not drag on for four, five or six years.”
“We, as representatives of people right around the country, have to say what we are hearing on the ground. Will the Taoiseach do the things I ask?”
“In the whole immigration process, the Government said it would process an applicant within six months. That has not happened. It is going on for four, five and six years. When will that be resolved? Our system is broken at the moment. The Government has admitted that we have an influx of youngsters and accommodation is very scarce. In Poland, Donald Tusk has decided, because the country has had an influx and could not cope with it, to get a suspension, with the blessing of Europe, under the migration pact. With the pressure on our system at the moment, will the Taoiseach consider that? Will he consider having a full debate in the House without people being put into corners, whether they are right-wing, left-wing or whatever? That needs to happen. The fear of talking about this has to be done away with.”
“If somebody, regardless of who that person is, is six years in the country, a deportation order was issued six months ago and the State is still paying for their accommodation, there is something seriously wrong. Unfortunately, over the last year or 18 months, we have seen a huge upsurge in knife crime in this country and a huge upsurge in weapons being wielded that we have never seen in this country. We have seen some cultures treating women as second-class citizens, which is not acceptable.”
“I think everyone recognises that we need people coming into this country through the visa system. We need doctors, nurses, people in hospitality and all different types of workers. They are welcome in this country. However, from what we have read last night, we need to have a conversation about illegal immigration. Most politicians are afraid at the moment, as are ordinary people. When you go around the country and talk to people, be it an elderly person or a couple here and there, one to one, they outline the problems they see but they all ask what they can say because they will be called a racist if they open their mouths. Last night, or this morning, what we read in the newspaper is horrendous. I will not go into that in detail. The one question I ask is this.”
“As I said earlier, affordable housing was not mentioned in the budget speech. That is an awful reflection. It is not all about social housing. It should be 50:50 in my opinion because the nurses, gardaí, front-line workers and people who are working in factories or any industry are the ones who pay the bills to run the country, on top of the bigger companies.”
“There is no point in saying they are not. They are earning €40,000, €50,000 or €60,000 and those people will pay the extra part. As I said in the tillage debate earlier, I welcome the money the then Minister, Deputy McConalogue, gave last year and the few quid with it. We need to make sure we look after the tillage sector. In regard to education, I have taken a few phone calls tonight about SNAs. While I appreciate there is more in the budget for SNAs, and that is great, there are schools that at this minute are having trouble getting SNAs and we need to make sure we address that. We are where we are and I know we have to watch for stormy waters coming. I know there are some bodies that say we are going a bit beyond our means. I understand all of that. We have to make sure the people who are bringing in the taxes are looked after as well.”
“While there is public transport and Local Links here and there, people going to Galway city from the Minister of State's, Deputy Grealish's, area or from my neck of the woods have to drive as there is no public transport there and there is no point in saying there is. People come home at different times or go to work at different times. They may have a youngster going to college. I find it hard to understand how someone can say that when they pay more, we have looked after them. Going to college will cost €500 more this year than it did last year. I know that was an emergency measure, but I would have gone to the extra €46 million. I think the whole thing cost €92 million altogether last year. Bear in mind, the people who are paying the fees are the people who are out working every morning. That is it.”
“I know between the Leas-Cathaoirleach's constituency and Galway there were problems with flooding and the likes of that need to be sorted out. The most difficult part I have found in this budget relates to the people who, as a former Taoiseach, Mr. Varadkar, said, get up early in the morning and go to work. I saw a figure in the newspaper that a lot of them are €70 per week worse off to go to work. That is a damnable situation and, in my opinion, they are even worse off than that for this simple reason. For people living in rural Ireland who have two cars, they will be hit with the carbon tax of €170 to €200 extra per year, between heating their house and driving two cars.”
“It will do some work but if we are trying to build the numbers of houses we are talking about, if we do not have the roads, sewers and water needed we are going nowhere. That budget is spendable and Irish Water needs more upfront for a few years to try to catch up enough to make sure people are left in a situation where houses can be built, because that is a major problem. On the infrastructure side of things, I note the N5 is in the budget again. This is the third budget it has been in and there is also a road in Cork. I want to see the likes of the M20 done. The road from Milltown heading to Sligo and Donegal needs to be done. The road from Kells heading to Monaghan needs to be sorted. I welcome moneys for rail infrastructure and all of that. Many Deputies have spoken about the western rail corridor. Problems need to be sorted out.”
“If someone is working and earning €35,000 or €40,000 and multiplies that by four there is not a hope of them being able to buy a house in a lot of areas and we have to look at that. I do welcome the budget for housing, and I know there is a Bill going through the House at the moment to try to make a roadmap to get through the planning issues, because the problem is that although there might be money, it is harder to spend it because of the blocks that are put in place. We have to drive them out of the way - we have to doze them out of the way, to be honest - because what is happening cannot go on, with judicial reviews and all of this craic constantly blocking progress. Irish Water's overall budget is €1.4 billion.”
“Yes, there is money for TB and it is needed but, other than that, there will be what the then Minister, Deputy McConalogue, gave for tillage last year and a small bit more, but none of the schemes are getting any increases. I question where the €300 per cow we heard about in the programme for Government has gone. Is the cow gone or what has happened? That was badly needed. There is a lot of money there for housing, in fairness. When one reads the document, the sad part of that budget is that affordable housing was never mentioned. We all represent different areas. I know in Roscommon if someone earns more than €35,000 they are not eligible for social housing, but what about affordable housing?”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the budget. I welcome the increases for pensioners and people with disabilities. They probably need more, to be frank, but I have to at least acknowledge it. I welcome the increase in the carer's supports thresholds. The ideal scenario is that if someone packs up a job to mind another person, regardless of what their partner earns or has, it saves the State a lot of money. The amount of work that is done throughout this country needs to be acknowledged. The new thresholds of €1,000 and €2,000 are a step in the right direction. There are many people who help out their fathers, mothers and loved ones and basically give up their lives to look after them and that needs to be recognised. It is a disappointing budget for agriculture.”
“It is no good for any of us to make promises during an election campaign and then not deliver what we say we will. We need to make sure those people are helped out as much as possible.”
“It is not that a huge amount of tillage is done in the west, but we get that product and if people listen to the figures, what is it worth? The people who grow distillers grain and so forth need to be looked after as well. I call on the drinks companies to step up to the mark on that because if we keep beating at people they will get out of the sector after a while and it is very hard to get people back to a thing. This year, tillage farmers will get the same or a small bit more than what the then Minister, Deputy McConalogue announced last year. That is not new money. They had the same feel for that money last year, but no new money is coming down the road for them. If we want to help those people, we have to set it out. If it will be in the next budget, the Minister should say what it will do.”
“It is those in that most vulnerable sector, which will be under pressure. That is who will lose out. We in the Parliament and the Government have to decide whether we will save that sector and increase its productivity. Let us look at the climate targets we dream about and what we will achieve by 2030 in all the different sectors. We aim to increase tillage, as if everyone were going to pull out a plough tomorrow. That will not happen, but the reality is if we do not give incentives, we will not have the sector. We have to decide whether we want it. It is ferociously important as a sector. Even in the Minister's area, it is huge. West of Ireland trucks go up to bring down the straw every year. It is ferociously important for the west.”
“The other countries are able to genetically modify and use all that craic and Europe will take in their grain, whereas in Europe farmers cannot do that, and rightly so. Farmers have to grow their product but they are at a disadvantage and we should reward people for doing things right. The figures will stand up and the Government TDs have given them. We have lost 40% in 40 years. The fact is that if we do not listen to the tillage sector and if we do not sort it out, it will end up getting smaller and smaller because the Minister and everyone else here knows that the pressure on land if people are renting it, be it from the dairy man or some other person who wants it for other uses, is ferocious at the moment. No more land was made lately as far as I know, so the pressure is on. Who will lose out?”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on this. Whether people come from an area that engaged in tillage, it is awfully important. Whether people are in sucklers, sheep, dairy or whatever, the people who grow the tillage to get the straw are ferociously important. We have a decision to make. Let us look at the prices this year. What is being given under the protein aid scheme is a good subsidy, but in fairness to the people who are growing barley, wheat or oats, it is a totally different game. They are taking a bad price. Let us look at the playing field. This is the big question that has to be addressed. We have decided to sign up to deals with third countries that have different terms and conditions for growing their product. It is as simple as that. We should give a level playing field to everyone.”
“We need to do it rapidly, get it going, move on and facilitate this as quickly as possible because it is a step in the right direction.”
“There is a shortage of local GPs, with new patients looking for them. In many parts of Ireland at the moment, if someone wants to see a doctor, they may have to wait a week or two. We need to do something like we did whereby people can now go to a level 2 hospital and urgent care centre rather than having to go to the likes of an accident and emergency department. If we can do the same with pharmacies for the more simplified cases rather than making people go to the doctor, that would be a great idea. It might get people seen more quickly for certain cases. It will also help doctors see more urgent cases quicker. I support the agreement. As previous speakers said, there is no point in us announcing something or saying that an agreement will be this, that or other.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on this. I agree with the agreement. It is a step forward. Pharmacists are highly qualified people. Doctors around the country are under pressure. An awful lot of people, especially those who do not have medical cards, cannot get an appointment for weeks. If a person has a chest infection or something simple that can be diagnosed quickly, they still have to go to a doctor first, get the prescription and go to the pharmacy. We need to eliminate a lot of that where possible. I am not saying it is for everything. Doctors are needed for their job as well. A person might have a sore ear or a bit of flu. There is an awful lot of stuff that we can trust pharmacists with. We should be moving forward and doing that. It will take pressure off doctors, who are under ferocious pressure.”
“In Connacht, from Donegal down, we need a centre of excellence and, on top of that, a place for sports and to bring the west and north west together to host events. The airport in Galway would be a perfect site. It is near the motorway. That would help to facilitate it and give equal participation to all parts of the country.”
“Sports capital grants have done great things in small communities right around the country. I remember playing football and togging out in places they would not tog out in nowadays. It is incredible what it has done. With the population increasing and different sports coming into play, more money should be put in to attract young people to get more of them involved in sport. The budgets must be available to help small clubs. The Government should put aside a budget for a loan scheme. Some clubs struggle to match the money. They would pay the loan back for the piece they have to pay themselves along with the sports capital grant. That should be looked at to help those small clubs. In Munster, there is Thurles, Limerick and Cork stadiums where concerts and different things go on as well as sports. In Leinster, there is the same.”
“When we see someone from Al-Qaeda at that conference addressing something even though they are outlaws, we must ask where is world order and where is respect. Where are people coming together to work to bring peace to the world? The world is in disarray at the moment.”