Richard O'Donoghue
Limerick County · Independent Ireland · Ireland
“The crucial point is that the HSE environmental health service examined the matter, visited the community and requested a public health investigation into the complaints. The public health section denied it. One part of the health service was looking for an investigation but the Department's public health section denied it.”
“I have a copy of that investigation. The Tánaiste and I met CEPA a number of years ago and we discussed these complaints. The Taoiseach is on the record 13 years ago saying that there are health implications to wind farms. There is something that I want the Tánaiste and all other Members sitting around the House today to do.”
“I thank the Tánaiste. The issue here is the inconsistency. In the Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown area, all noise complaints received by the local authority are investigated by the HSE.”
“Today, I am raising the issue of wind farms and their health implications. A number of weeks ago, I was copied into a serious letter from the Communities and Environmental Protection Alliance, CEPA, to the Minister of Health. I am informed that there has been no response, not even an acknowledgement.”
“I would also like to have the Minister for Health there to meet these people and to see if we can relieve concerns and meet young people and their families' entitlement to a night's sleep. This cannot go on for more years. We have been talking about this for years. We must think of the health implications and how we can help.”
“It has been proven without doubt that there are health implications to wind turbines in certain areas. I am not against wind turbines in areas where they do not have health implications, but this one does. So, when the Tánaiste is giving his reply, I want him to think of the children and families this is affecting.”
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“I welcome biodiversity but I also welcome biodiversity in the right areas and places. I also welcome safety on roads. On biodiversity, the laws that have been passed in this country never took into account people travelling. This is where I have a major issue with some of the laws on wildlife and biodiversity: as regards safety of lives. Roads where two vehicles could once travel are now closing in because of laws made by the local authorities. When they go to do a road, they cut 2 m high and 1 m in. They close the road and do not allow for buses, trucks or people walking who cannot step in when there is a vehicle coming. We need joined-up thinking on biodiversity so we can also have road safety. Now we have vehicles travelling in the middle of the road. They cannot travel on the side because of all the hedgerows growing in together.”
“The maximum age for Bus Éireann bus drivers is 70. At the moment, our children cannot get to school because private operators with contracts with Bus Éireann cannot take them to school if their drivers are over 70. However, these drivers, even if they are over 70, can be called by the school to take children to a tour of the Dáil. The same bus driver who cannot take our children to school can take them anywhere in the country, but Bus Éireann will not allow that driver take those children to school under its contract.”
“In 2013 there was a system whereby people got €5,000 to upgrade their septic tanks. They registered their tanks and if they qualified for the grant due to their tanks being defunct, they received the grant. The problem was that nobody qualified for the grant because the tank had to be tested first and only a small number of people got them tested. Now the grant is up to €12,000. There is a mapping system now, and three quarters of people do not qualify for that grant either. There are grants available for defunct tanks but people cannot get the grants. I ask the Taoiseach to look at the mapping system that has been introduced by the EPA. I am asking about equal opportunities for towns and villages. I am offering to help the Government. I am not going to criticise; I am offering to help.”
“In the first part of his remarks, the Taoiseach said he had met with representatives of Irish Water. Maybe he needs to bring me with him to teach them a bit of common sense and give them some ideas and solutions. The Taoiseach mentioned the EPA and septic tanks. Yes, there are grants but the problem with the grant system for septic tanks is that in 2013 the Taoiseach brought in a system where people got €5,000.”
“Uisce Éireann is not listening to an engineering solution to help to build more houses with the same systems we have at the moment by just separating the storm water from the sewage. That is what I am asking for.”
“This means that all the rivers and streams, and all the sewerage heads all around the country, are untreated because we do not have the proper people dealing with it. Uisce Éireann, to me, is a runaway train. It is not giving value for money. It is not listening to anyone. There are solutions for our systems in this country to give us clean water by putting in different systems in order to deal with the equipment we have at the moment. Then we can upgrade as we can afford to do so. Uisce Éireann is not listening to common sense or to other engineers who say the technology is there to do what we need to do. What we have to do is very simple, but Uisce Éireann tells us that this system is broken and that system is broken.”
“In all towns, villages and cities, when they are piped from the houses out to the main street they all go into the one pipe. We gave Uisce Éireann the idea of putting in separators for water. At the moment, our treatment systems are working at their best during the summer because they are not dealing with water and are way below capacity. Some 25% to 30% of our sewerage systems are working perfectly during the summer. During the winter, what we are now treating is approximately 70% water. When the sewage comes in with the water and comes to a certain level in the treatment system, nothing gets treated because it goes out over the baffle wall and straight into the waterways around Ireland.”
“Every day we come to the House, we are hear about housing, housing, housing. During the week, the EPA released a report on the inspections of septic tanks by local authorities. Areas were targeted where septic tanks were near rivers. The councils completed 1,390 inspections of tanks and found that 82% of the tanks were inadequate. We are talking about meeting housing targets here. What the EPA has not done is look at the treatment systems going straight into rivers, which we have been looking to have upgraded for decades. I have been working in construction all of my life and I still am. We have given ideas to the likes of Uisce Éireann about how they could have more sewerage capacity in towns or villages on the same systems they have already if they separated the storm water from the sewage.”
“We need to ensure the next generation can see that if they want to be a carer and do good, they can also have a life and will not be penalised for trying to help somebody.”
“We need to protect that as well and allow for it. If we fund carers properly, we will have people who want to do that work. Recognition and support for young carers is vital as they are the next generation. They see what people are doing. They see the care provided for their parents, grandparents and people who have disabilities and want to be cared for within their own home. They see that at first hand; they are getting the experience of watching other people do it. What they are actually watching is carers being penalised. They see there is no career choice for them to be carers and to help if they also want to have a life themselves and support a family. If they wish to go into the care sector, we have to make sure it is possible and that it covers all generations.”
“This is what we are looking at. On one side the health service is top-heavy with money in and on the other side the Government is penalising those who care for people well within their own home. People are going above and beyond to care for people in their own homes, and the Government is penalising them. Why can we not have something streamlined that allows us to look after the people who want to help? Carers are taking pay cuts to care for people. They are travelling across this country for an hour here and an hour there. They may be travelling 30 or 40 miles to care for people. They do not go to just one house. They go to people and they help them. In addition, what has been brought into the care system is a regulation that is stopping people who really want to help somebody they know needs extra help within the household.”
“If we look at the cost of agency staff, they come to hospitals for a day here and a day there, which does not fix the problem. We should have full-time nurses in hospitals. To me, there should be very few agency staff. There should be full-time staff, not agency staff, because to make somebody better the nurse has to have a relationship with the person. Agency staff should only be brought in as a stop-gap, to fill in if there is no other option. At the moment, however, our health service is top heavy with agency staff who should actually be staff. If we look at the cost of employing an agency staff nurse and the cost of providing a carer in a person's own home, and we look at the difference in what that costs the State, it is absolutely bizarre. For the cost of an agency staff nurse, the Government could possibly employ three carers.”
“We have to ensure that carers also get a break. We get a break from the Dáil. Everyone else gets a break from their working life. No matter what sector people are working in, they have a guarantee of breaks. The problem is that sometimes carers feel that if they take their break, there will be no one left to care for the person they are caring for. We have to allow for this through respite. This motion also calls for improvements to home support services, including ensuring adequate funding for home support hours and addressing workforce shortages. I do not believe there is anyone in this House who values what carers can do. I mentioned the National Children’s Hospital and the overspending on hospitals. If there is a shortage of nurses in a hospital, where does the hospital get people to fill in? It uses agency staff.”
“How many people do we know have given up their jobs because they cannot get carers in their area? My own family members are doing the same. My nieces and nephews have given up their own time and jobs to make sure that a loved one is cared for. They also have their own families, including young children whom they care for. By not providing a proper payment system for carers, we are actually creating a double impact because this affects the families’ ability to care for their own families, if they have young families. As to the minimum respite guarantee, this motion proposes a legal entitlement to a minimum number of weeks of respite care each year for all carers, acknowledging the importance of breaks for carers. If you go to some place where a carer working 24-7 gets no break, what do they hit? They hit burnout.”
“Independent Ireland brought this motion before the House in order for the Government to see common sense. Independent Ireland recently received the chairmanship of the Committee on Budgetary Oversight. The first thing the committee will look at is the cost of healthcare in this country and the value it gives for money, including the overspends. We will not discuss the National Children's Hospital because it is an open book, and a waste of funding. We look at the carers in this country and the fact that the Government wants to means-test them. This motion advocates for the removal of the means test for carers allowance, ensuring that a full-time carer is supported financially and not penalised by their partner's income. That is common sense. They are providing care.”
“Some 73% of what Uisce Éireann is now treating is water; the rest is sewage because they are both mixed. I have been at this for six or seven years, namely trying to bring about common sense and value for money when it comes to infrastructure. People in high-paid jobs are making decisions but we are getting nothing in return. Let us build the infrastructure we need and get accountability for the money invested in it.”
“Imagine if I told somebody they would have to wait two weeks to check capacity of something that could be done at the click of a finger. We need accountability in respect of Uisce Éireann and the funding put into it and the lack of funding put into local authorities when they were in charge of water under Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. They could have delivered a lot of the stuff we need today in terms of infrastructure. Askeaton has been 49 years without a sewerage system. Raw sewage is flowing into the Shannon, water the Government wants to pipe up here to Dublin to service the city's water needs. That is what we are looking at. Raw sewage is going into the Shannon and the Government wants to treat the water from the river and use it to service Dublin's needs.”
“The Minister of State and I sat on the housing committee together. It is like déjà vu . I am delighted to be the chairman of the budget and oversight committee, which will have a big role to play in ensuring accountability in respect of the money that is being spent. I sent a letter to Uisce Éireann about Pallaskenry, County Limerick. Three weeks on, I am waiting for a letter back to say there is capacity in Pallaskenry. I know there is capacity because nothing has been built there since the new plant went in, but I was told that it is going to take another two weeks to check whether there is capacity in the tank and system that are there. We already know it is there. That is two weeks to use a computer in order to check for capacity. That is where we are lacking accountability. I have been self-employed all my life.”
“We need to make sure that education is covered off, that we listen to the people who are the next generation of educators and that we build for the future.”
“The transport network is not in place to make sure that they can go to and from colleges. That is because the education and transport systems do not match up. If we learn anything from this, it is that we need to make sure there is proper accommodation for students who want to go to third level. I have been saying for the past ten years that we need to invest in apprenticeships. Equally, we need to make sure that where apprenticeships are being offered, we have the proper accommodation for the people who take them up. They have to be able travel to different counties and be involved in providing the infrastructure for the next generation of people who want to go to third level. These apprentices will eventually be able to build that infrastructure, plumb it and deal with the electrical side of things.”
“I wish the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, and the Minister, Deputy Lawless, the best of luck in their positions. What has education taught us about people who want to have a right to education? It has taught us for decades that we do not have the accommodation for people who want to go to third level, either on or off campus. We have a housing crisis but we have known this for years. I have a son who is in third level education. The biggest worry he has is that we cannot get him accommodation in Galway. I have asked all the Deputies in Galway if they can help us. They say that it would be easier for me to build a house there than it would be to get him accommodation. The same is happening in Limerick. All around the country, we are finding that people who want to go to third level education are stressed about accommodation.”
“Common sense means allowing local authorities to have responsibility for deciding the speed limits that should apply on local roads. This would mean that we would have a tiered system. The Road Safety Authority has to do its job, but local roads should be dealt with on the basis of local information. The Government is overtaxing people who are already on the breadline and who cannot put food on the table. I am seeking pay parity for everyone. Remember, these are working people we are talking about.”
“They did not have a part to play previously. I have asked that they should make decisions on the speed limits that should apply on roads are safe and those that are not safe. Some 89% of the vehicles in this country use either petrol or diesel. How many of those over there drive petrol or diesel cars? Be honest. Some 89% of the vehicles in Ireland use either petrol or diesel, which means that 89% of those who are being overtaxed are the working people the Government talks about in the context of the minimum wage. They are already being overtaxed, but the Government is now putting another liability on them in the form of local road tax. The Government is taxing the same people it is trying to help. I am asking for common sense.”
“It is not saving lives. The Minister is stating that putting a speed limit of 60 km/h on roads that are not safe is saving lives. Does she realise what 6 m is? It is only the distance from where I am standing to where the Tánaiste is sitting. That is the width of the roads I am talking about. The Government has imposed a blanket speed limit on local roads across the country. I ask that we reduce speed limits on roads that are unsafe and impose appropriate speed limits on roads that are safe. The Government has just done it across the board.”
“It is fourth or fifth gear in a seven-speed car and fourth gear in a car with a five- or six-speed gearbox. That means more fuel being burnt and more emissions, and the Government is increasing carbon tax.”
“Even if we reduced that by 50%, which is 1.5 million, those vehicles will use 17 extra gallons of fuel on the basis of the mileage they would do. It would be 24,000 miles in a diesel car and 17,000 in a petrol vehicle, and they would burn 17 extra gallons of fuel. At the same time, we are increasing the carbon tax. In the context of Europe, Ireland is going to have to pay fines for not meeting our carbon emissions targets. We are taxing people more by reducing the speed limits in areas where they can actually drive at decent speeds. People travelling across the country in their cars are doing so in fourth gear. I have checked the averages of all the cars across the country, and people are travelling in fourth gear along the 81,293 km of road to which I refer. These are five- and six-speed cars, and even automatic seven-speed vehicles.”
“On International Workers' Day, I will talk about speed limits. I will give a few figures because I like figures. There are 3.2 million vehicles in this country. There are 5,413 km of national roads; 2,696 km of national secondary roads; 13,122 km of regional roads; and 81,293 km of local roads. The Government has reduced the speed limit on local roads to 60 km/h. Some of these roads are 6 m wide. Rather than allow local authorities to reduce speed limits on roads that are unsafe or, for example, only 3 m wide, the Government implemented a blanket ban across all local roads. There are 81,293 km of road to which the 60 km/h speed limit applies. How do we break this down into brass tacks? I have worked out the average. There are 3.2 million vehicles that use local roads.”
“I look forward to that. This week I have seen permits that came through and the visas came to us within two days of those. However, others go back two and three months. I am looking forward to this new system to see if it will work in tandem. Many companies are waiting for permits at the moment. Many people who have been working in companies here for a couple of years and want their families to come here are having problems getting visas for their families. I know of one person who has been working here for four years. His wife is a chemist and she cannot get in here for some unknown reason. Many chefs and other people with skills are working in the hospitality sector. They want their families to come here. They have the accommodation, but they cannot bring them here. We should do whatever we can to fast-track it.”
“They need to be in tandem to make sure that the people who want to come into this country legitimately can get here with their permits to get into employment and they also have the visas at the same time.”
“I thank the Minister of State for his reply. I am delighted that the new portal is finally up and running. We have a bigger problem with this. The processing of permits is starting to work but there is not much point having a permit if people cannot get the visa with it and the Department is not speaking. Many people who are getting permits are not getting the visas. It is as if one Department is not talking to the other. While the Minister has excelled on the permit side the Department on the other side is not getting the visas through. We have had a lot of cases this week alone, the same as the cases that have been going on over the last three or four months, waiting for the visas. I compliment the Minister on the permit side, but we need to make sure the permits are followed with visas.”
“However, if somebody wants to build a house in the county, they are told they need half an acre. With the new guidelines, people can build a second house of up to 400 sq. ft or 40 sq. m on the same property if somebody wants to downsize, for example. If somebody in a family wants to downsize, 400 sq. ft means only 20 ft each side of a square. We should be allowed to build something a little bit bigger on a half-acre site, especially if we can build 15 or 16 houses in the same area in a town, city or village. In the county, the Government says we can only build one but that we might be able to put in another building of 400 sq. ft afterwards. We need to make sure we can invite our people to come home. If they want to build their own houses and put a roof over their own heads, that comes at no cost to the State.”
“It has expired but Uisce Éireann just needs to change the date on it and send it back. This is holding up 42 houses. How are we going to build houses for people if we have this type of delay? It is the same thing in Croom. Infrastructure is key if you want to build houses. Some 60 houses in Croom were held up for six months due to Uisce Éireann. It was not all its fault. When the local authorities handed stuff over to Uisce Éireann, they delayed because they did not realise they had given commitments to people building houses before the handover. There was a lack of communication. On people building one-off houses, everyone should have the right to live where they grew up. If there is adequate land, road frontage, visibility and percolation, people should be allowed to build. In a town, you can put 15 houses into half an acre.”
“I acknowledge Richie Herlihy and his friend Paul Lenihan who are in the Gallery. I welcome them to the Dáil. We can do all the frameworks we like with all the best of intentions but unless you have the infrastructure, you can build nothing. I will provide the Minister of State with an example of an application that is with Uisce Éireann at the moment. There are 42 houses to be built in Pallaskenry. I will ask for the Minister of State's help with this. All that is needed is an A4 page stating that there is capacity in the sewerage system. This is delaying the building of 42 houses in Pallaskenry. I have been on to Uisce Éireann and our local county council. The executive met with Uisce Éireann, which said it would be looked into. It has taken a month for Uisce Éireann to look into an A4 page. I sent it the last one it issued.”
“Small businesses going into insolvency as a result of Revenue interest and penalties should be looked at to see if they can be saved. Small businesses have inflation costs, employment costs and running costs. They will not have ways and means of getting funding from their banks to keep them going because the banks look at them as only small entities or as non-viable. These small businesses are very important to their communities, however. I will not oppose the motion. This amendment is needed to make sure that insolvency is updated for all the European Union member states. We need to have provisions in place at home to deal with rogue operators that go into insolvency two or three times or more.”
“I will not oppose this amending regulation. It ensures the importance of the establishment of civil justice between European states. With regard to insolvency in this country, we have to look at how many businesses were forced into insolvency as a result of inflation or Revenue interest and penalties? We are talking about small businesses as well as large businesses. How many companies entered insolvency once, twice, three times, four times or five times and reopened each time under another name? How many had a sister company into which they moved the assets before going through insolvency and starting all over again? Protections need to be put in place to ensure the directorships of such companies leave a trail across showing the same people in the same companies coming back. We need to make sure regulation in is place to deal with that.”
“Representatives of the national Meals on Wheels programme are across the way in Buswell's Hotel. They are looking for more funding. Some 2.8 million meals were provided in 2024. There were 228,000 users of the service. When the service provides a meal and delivers it to someone, the cost of the meal is €7, and the service charges the person €7. The service does not have funding for the running cost of its vehicles. If anyone goes to any restaurant anywhere, even to get a sandwich, it costs a serious amount. We have people delivering a valuable service, meeting people in their own homes twice a week every week and giving them good nourishing meals, but they are underfunded. We need something to enable them to get extra funding, deliver more services and not do it at a loss.”
“I guarantee there are loads of buggies of the correct size that could be repurposed and reused in these warehouses around the country where the HSE is storing this stuff. I would like an audit of all of the stuff the HSE gives out and of the stuff it never gets back because people do not hand it back when they are finished with it. This could be repurposed, reconditioned and given back out to people while we wait for things for them.”
“In certain places, there are warehouses full of stuff that has come back after being used and which has not been repurposed. It could be checked over and modified. It is the same as buying a second-hand car. If someone is waiting for something, this could keep them going in the interim. It is about using what we have to hand. I am looking for a small bit of common sense. Yesterday, I spoke about a woman who had a buggy for her ten-year-old child who is non-verbal and does not walk. She has a buggy suitable for a child up to eight years of age but her son is ten. She has to go to the emergency department and put him into a buggy sized for someone two years younger than him.”
“I know the issue of special needs is close to the Minister of State's heart. We see delays in assessments for children. If we cannot get assessments on time, why can we not put in place a reimbursement scheme for people who can get them? We have done it for hips and knees. In the interim and until we get the assessments done, why can we not have a reimbursement scheme for those who are able to get an assessment somewhere else? That could speed up the process. We could get the children assessed and looked after faster. On equipment for children with special needs, we need to audit the sector. Equipment is being put into warehouses when people are finished with it. This could be repurposed, reused, recycled and brought back out again for somebody else. I am talking about buggies, wheelchairs and other things.”
“The real mistake is not fixing the situation and things going on for years. People do not fix what they have done. The family is not fixed. There is no protection for the next cohort of people who have the same type of surgery and face the same mistakes. That is what we are here for. We are not perfect.”
“The issue is that the people who are carrying out the investigation know the person who carries out operations and then asks what they can do. There has been cover-up after cover-up. That puts the heat back on the Minister in terms of trying to do the right thing when she does not have the full information in front of her to diagnose the problem. We are now at a point where people say this should never have happened. How many people have gone through the same thing over many years, where there was cover-up after cover-up? I said that the Minister has come into office with a new lease of life in her Ministry. I asked her to come to UHL unannounced and she did so. No matter who makes a mistake in a hospital in this country, I ask that they put up their hands and fix the mistake.”
“I have mentioned UHL and other hospitals where if somebody does something wrong, we should not fight that. Those involved should put their hands up and say they got it wrong. Why are we fighting legal battles for five, ten or 15 years when wrong has been done? We should instead say there was a learning, we got it wrong, we do not want it to happen to the next child or person in hospital and we want to get it right. Not everyone is perfect, but if people own up to their mistakes at the start we can then put measures in place so that people can be helped. I have spoken on numerous occasions about the case of Jessica Sheedy - I have permission to speak about her - who died in Limerick hospital. The case has gone on for years, something of which the Minister is aware. There has been investigation after investigation.”
“I am again speaking with the Minister. I thanked her for visiting UHL. Everyone has spoken about the surgeons who have made mistakes and all the rest of it. It is not always the surgeons. I can speak about a personal issue. My son had kyphosis. He underwent an operation. He had 136 staples and two rods inserted in his back. Some 12 or 14 months later, the rods snapped. That was not the fault of the surgeons, but rather the materials used. It is not always about the surgeons. I cannot thank the surgeons enough for what they did for my son at that time. He had to undergo the operation a second time during his leaving certificate, but he got through it. Thankfully, he is okay. What happened was the result of the rods that were put in his spine snapping.”
“I ask for the Minister's personal help on this. I will give her the details. I again thank her for fulfilling her commitment.”
“Every time she looks for something she is told that she does not qualify because she is working. If she gave up work, she could not care for the children herself because of their age. As she is working, she is being told that she qualifies for nothing. She has asked for a buggy for one of her children. The child, who is in a buggy for an eight-year-old, is now aged 11. If she has to go to UHL through accident and emergency, she has to put that 11-year-old child into a buggy meant for an eight-year-old. She is asking for help. As I said, she has worked all her life and is giving full-time care to her children. She does all the care herself at weekends, but to get them the care, help and all the resources they need, she is working. She is being told at every turn that she qualifies for nothing.”
“The Minister is a person of her word. I am glad she came to UHL unannounced. It was great to see that she went there. I heard from staff and management that they were delighted to see her come unannounced because it gives her first-hand knowledge. She made that commitment to me. I told her I would work with her to help UHL. She has done the first part for which I thank her. There is something else I will ask for the Minister's help on. A woman contacted me today who has three children aged between ten and 12 who have special needs. She has been separated for nine years and has worked all her life. She has very little support from her ex-partner. She works full time to try to cater for her three children, two of whom have special needs and are non-verbal. She qualifies for nothing.”
“However, we have a massive problem on the wastage of money and the unaccountability of wasted money in the public sector from the point of view of the Government and Departments. That is our problem. The tariffs we have coming down on top at the moment are going to put this country in major trouble.”
“They come out then and pay taxes on every single thing they buy. If a person never works a day in this country and gets to a ripe old age and needs to go to a nursing home, he or she automatically qualifies for everything in the fair deal scheme. However, if someone works in this country and has any few bob in savings and wants to leave it to the grandchildren, he or she has to pay if it is over a certain amount. This is what the tariffs are going to mean for this country. We are already exhausted trying to keep going and put food on the table for the people who are here working and the vulnerable people we are trying to cater for, and not one person in Ireland who works has any problem with looking after the vulnerable.”
“There is a full breakdown of what it costs, from the lid all the way to the wages and the whole way along, to show what it means to survive in this country. We are facing tariffs in this country. We are also facing the amount of money this country has made in taxes and the lack of value for money for what we have done. The Irish Times reported on the mistake that was made in the last economic crisis in this country - the lack of putting in infrastructure. If we put in infrastructure, it brings down the price of housing because it is in. If we put in infrastructure, it brings down the price of travelling across this country. In this country at the moment, however, for every euro people spend on fuel to go to work, they are paying 50 cent in tax on diesel and 43 cent on petrol. People go to work and then they pay tax on their wages.”
“As it stands, this country cannot withstand tariffs from the US. It cannot, because of its size and nature, withstand world economic uncertainty. It cannot withstand it because of regulations applied to our agri- and business sectors that mean we probably have some of the highest taxes in Europe to try to survive. I went across the road yesterday to try to support a local business and Deputy O'Flynn was with me. We went in to get a cup of coffee and up on the wall it showed the breakdown for a cup of coffee in this country. If you look down through it, 50 cent of it is VAT on a cup of coffee. That is for something small that somebody might want. That person straight across the road from Leinster House is probably the cheapest person in Dublin to go to for a cup of coffee.”