Ruairí Ó Murchú
Louth · Sinn Féin · Ireland
“It was hardly a shock to me and many others that he decided that the simplicity that was asked for by Sinn Féin last week, such that we would consider preparations for Irish unity, was not acceptable. Most people would see this as a possibility, even those who do not necessarily like the idea.”
“I welcome that. I have spoken previously to the Minister about the necessity of providing Mr. Delaney's report on the incident to Natasha and the wider family.”
“We will all be very interested to see what the new circular is. The Minister of State said it will be announced in September. A needs-based system is what we need. I would like to think the young boy I talked about would be able to avail of this. I will use him as an example. The correct assessments were carried out.”
“We just need to make sure that the circular is fit for purpose and that the young primary school child to whom I refer will be given the supports he requires. I will just finish reading from the communication to which I referred earlier.”
“We need to ensure that the engagement with Lebanon is ongoing. Are we happy with the interaction with the UN? There had been some issues relating to the coroner's court. Everyone needs to do everything that can be done to ensure truth and justice for the family of Private Seán Rooney.”
“I thank the Ceann Comhairle for all the flexibility she allows in this Chamber, and hopefully that will continue as we speak. I welcome an awful lot of what Deputy Devlin said.”
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“We have a number of issues like that, including dealing with the common travel area and the impact on workers who cannot just travel from North to South at this point in time. We need to deal with those sorts of issues. However, we must be clear. Reference was made to the difference between Professor John FitzGerald's research and Professor John Doyle's. Obviously, we come down far more in favour of Professor Doyle's. In fairness, he dealt with the issue of pensions, which the Deputy spoke of. However, the fact is that we need to ensure this State does preparatory work on making these comparisons. Only the State can do it.”
“It was hardly a shock to me and many others that he decided that the simplicity that was asked for by Sinn Féin last week, such that we would consider preparations for Irish unity, was not acceptable. Most people would see this as a possibility, even those who do not necessarily like the idea. Most politicians would say there is sense to planning. That is all we were looking for. I welcome the debate to consider the fiscal realities and the implications of Irish unity. I was at an IBEC meeting earlier and one of the first things stated, following a question from Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh, related to an issue I have raised here many times, namely the implications for those working remotely cross-Border and the fact that, because of the tax systems that need to be created, it just does not work for employers or employees.”
“I thank the Ceann Comhairle for all the flexibility she allows in this Chamber, and hopefully that will continue as we speak. I welcome an awful lot of what Deputy Devlin said. I have often come in here and welcomed the work of the shared island unit, whether we were talking about the Narrow Water bridge or research on educational attainment and differentiation. That is all worthwhile. Every time I come in and have an interaction here, it is generally with Deputy Devlin's leader, the Taoiseach, Deputy Micheál Martin. He states explicitly that the shared island unit will not go anywhere next nor near questions on research or anything else as regards constitutional change on the island.”
“We need to ensure that the engagement with Lebanon is ongoing. Are we happy with the interaction with the UN? There had been some issues relating to the coroner's court. Everyone needs to do everything that can be done to ensure truth and justice for the family of Private Seán Rooney. Does the Minister have any idea of the timeline for the family to see Mr. Delaney's report? I am working on the basis that it will be provided to a number of stakeholders beyond them but will not be published. I take this opportunity to thank the Ceann Comhairle, the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and the staff of Leinster House for those occasional periods when we actually get things done for people. More of it should happen. At this time, I usually also make apologies for any nuisance that I have caused.”
“I welcome that. I have spoken previously to the Minister about the necessity of providing Mr. Delaney's report on the incident to Natasha and the wider family. Whatever part of it can be published should be because it is all about learnings to ensure the safety of our peacekeepers when they operate abroad, while also providing necessary information to the family and others as regards the tragic death of Seán Rooney. We all understand that Lebanon is going through a nightmare. The madness of the American regime and genocidal Israel needs to be called out and we need to take whatever action we can. Hopefully, we can see some movement from European partners, but we have to maintain that contact and ensure that the Lebanese authorities do not step away from the necessity of providing justice to the family of Seán Rooney.”
“Has there been any progress in relation to the investigations into the death of Private Seán Rooney? He is still missed in Dundalk and Donegal by family, friends and comrades. I know the Minister's legal representative in Lebanon has engaged with the military tribunal. My question is also about Mr. Michael Delaney's post-incident inquiry, whether all the due diligence has been done on that, whether we can see its publication, and if it can be provided to the family.”
“Assistive technology would be of real benefit. We also know that it must be authorised by the Department in order that it can be availed of for exams and all the rest of it. At this point, he would require that to avail of the curriculum, which is what the assistive technology grant scheme is there for. The Minister of State says the scheme is being updated. Could he outline the level of funding that will be in it?”
“We just need to make sure that the circular is fit for purpose and that the young primary school child to whom I refer will be given the supports he requires. I will just finish reading from the communication to which I referred earlier. It states: [His] attainments and cognitive profile do not confer eligibility for an application for an Assistive Technology grant. However, he would benefit from availing of a laptop or device in school or indeed at home. [He] should be encouraged to develop his typing skills as this will be of huge support to him when he transitions to secondary school in a few years' time. He should also be encourage to use the 'dictate' function in Word, and this will also be useful for him when completing school projects. That is the reality of the assistive technology fund.”
“I would say the Minister of State would agree. It is about ensuring that we have a more fit-for-purpose grant scheme and that the likes of this boy will be sorted by it.”
“We will all be very interested to see what the new circular is. The Minister of State said it will be announced in September. A needs-based system is what we need. I would like to think the young boy I talked about would be able to avail of this. I will use him as an example. The correct assessments were carried out. The Wechsler abbreviated scale of intelligence stated that his verbal comprehension was very low, perceptual reasoning was low average and full-scale IQ was very low. The Wechsler individual assessment test ranked his word reading as extremely low. It stated that he was presented with a list of words to read, he should be commended on his hard work and that this task was very difficult for him. His word reading skills were in the extremely low range for his age. This does not make a lot of sense to me.”
“In relation to grants for assistive technology for students, are there plans to increase the funding for the scheme or to update or change its criteria? The Minister is aware of what brought this to my attention. It is a ten-year-old boy from north County Louth with dyslexia. Following assessment, it was found he would benefit from a computer and assistive technology but who is not eligible for the grant. I have discussed this with the Minister. We need to find a solution and to look at the overall criteria. There are wider issues as regards AAC also.”
“I have often spoken about the need for multi-agency action to be taken in relation to dealing with the issues of security, safety, antisocial behaviour and criminal activity in real terms, whether in Dublin, Dundalk or anywhere else. I agree with what Deputy Moynihan said. We were all taken by Grace Lynch's parents in relation to the issue scramblers. We heard from the Garda Commissioner about the fact An Garda Síochána would need a framework to operate in, even if it had the training, the drones and all the other pieces. A particular issue needs to be dealt with. Grace's mother, Siobhán, spoke about the fact threats had been made to her on TikTok. She spoke about the need for a greater reaction from An Garda Síochána. It is a particular issue that would need to be brought up with the social media companies.”
“It has been quite a good week for Pedro Sánchez and Spain. Regarding his interactions with the Spanish Prime Minister and others, the Taoiseach mentioned discussions on the EU-Israel Association Agreement. I think we can all agree that the European Union has been disgraceful in facilitating this beneficial deal for Israel at a time when it is engaged in increased illegal settlements, ensuring there is no possibility of a two-state solution. That is before dealing with the genocidal mania over the last number of years. Do we see this as viable? Has there has been enough interaction, enough of a lobby across Europe, to see movement from those that have given far too much support to the Israelis in recent time? I ask the Taoiseach to give an update on that.”
“He replied that he expected that we would be there in our brown boots and Stetsons. I said I would do my best. That is the reality we are dealing with. We have to ensure that State agencies and semi-State companies do not continue to use artificial intelligence to produce what should be done by artists and is actually stolen from artists. I commend Deputy Ó Snodaigh on an obair uilig atá déanta aige fá choinne ealaíontóirí agus na healaíne. Caithfimid cuid mhór oibre a dhéanamh. The Minister of State has made promises here. They need to be delivered upon – it is as simple as that. We need to look after artists.”
“It is an incredibly worrying time for artists. They are watching as their painstakingly produced works are used without permission to train generative AI that is then directly competing with them. No permission is sought, no payment is made and it is a huge infringement of copyright. It is downright piracy. Not only that, but these AI programmes can produce content in a fraction of the time and with a fraction of the effort. I listened earlier to Danny O’Donoghue from The Script speaking about this on RTÉ. He summed it up well when he said it was intellectual property theft on an industrial scale. I told him that my wife and I expected a huge performance at Slane, which I have no doubt he will provide.”
“The Minister of State would probably say she was a very sensible woman. It was a very difficult situation for my father but St. Oliver Plunkett nursing home was the right place for her to be. It is about providing supports but also about doing the work as regards research. If we can help to save people like Cian and Jordan from the likes of FTD, we need to do so.”
“I commend the staff there. She was a strong and formidable woman. She might have been glad to see me as a TD, although it is fair to say she probably would not have been glad to see me as a TD for Sinn Féin. She was more similar to the Minister of State in that sense.”
“An awful lot of people have told me that we get an awful lot of material that is not good on our feeds: disinformation, misinformation and downright bad stuff. For a period, over those 33 days and beyond, we saw the best of us and the best of Cian and Jordan. I thank them very much for that. Getting down to the business end, dementia impacts 69,000 people in Ireland and possibly up to 150,000. We know that there are failings as regards our national dementia strategy. We need a framework covering home care and nursing homes. It should also cover brain health, which the Minister of State mentioned, therapies and respite. It is about putting it all together. Many others here have been thinking about their relatives. I think of my granny, Maryanne Murphy. She got great support and help in St. Oliver Plunkett nursing home in Dundalk.”
“Cian and Jordan have shown a huge level of courage and bravery in what they have done, raising money and highlighting the issue as they ran 33 marathons in 33 days. That is where bravery and courage meet absolute madness. As much as I am commending them now, when I ran with them in Dundalk, I thought they were absolutely fabulous in the beginning but when I got to Ballymac and started to trail them, I was not too impressed with them when they suddenly spurted on. I forgave them at the very end. In fairness, they were really commendable in how they dealt with people, including young people. They engaged and took photographs and everything. It became a brilliant family affair. They also make great use of social media.”
“I also commend the Alzheimer Society of Ireland on the work it has done. I thank its members for being here in the Gallery. Like everyone else, I commend Cian and Jordan Adams on the spectacular work they have done in shining a light on dementia, particularly frontotemporal dementia. Early onset dementia has a huge impact on families. It had a huge impact on Cian and Jordan's family when they lost their much-loved mother, Geraldine, at 52. I cannot imagine the impact that had. I was very taken with something Cian said. He said they were delighted when their sister, Kennedy, discovered that unlike Cian and Jordan she did not have the gene that leads to FTD. I do not know how the rest of us here would deal with all of that.”
“I have spoken to many across Government parties who are open to this conversation and who dislike the position that was taken. I listened to the Tánaiste who spoke about working across this House in relation to delivering on Irish unity. I want to know what that looks like. I welcome the fact that Fine Gael is working on a blueprint, but we need to do the preparatory work. The other thing is the British Government is not going to offer up a date on a referendum if an Irish government is not willing to have a conversation.”
“The conversation on Irish unity is well under way, but there is no point saying this was not a disappointing week for those who have an interest in furthering that conversation and making sure the preparatory work is done. A considerable number of people in the North felt let down. We are talking about sensible preparations, a Green Paper and a citizens' assembly - a forum instructed by that Green Paper as a means to have the conversation on what a united Ireland would look like. At the end of the day, a united Ireland is about Irish freedom, self-determination and delivering on the promise of 1916. It is also about delivering sensible all-Ireland solutions on health, housing and every other issue that impacts on us. I cannot understand the position of the Taoiseach, Deputy Micheál Martin, and his implacable opposition to this.”
“I have no doubt the Minister of State himself is disappointed by the move that has been taken by the Government and particularly by the Taoiseach. The Tánaiste seemed more open to a dialogue across the House on coming up with a solution for making those preparations, which are absolutely necessary. We are only talking about starting a journey, which should have started a long time ago, to deliver on Irish unity.”
“We have seen that Benjamin Netanyahu is absolutely committed to ensuring there is no two-state solution. We have to stand by the Palestinians in the way we can. I echo what a number of my colleagues have said. It has been a disappointing week for us as regards what we saw as very sensible initial moves on preparation for Irish unity. I do believe the framework within Europe provides us with a facility to deliver this. There is an absolute need for us to engage with European partners on the supports that will be available from Europe if a united Ireland is to happen. I have no doubt that if Irish unity is to happen, it is in Europe's interests that it is as seamless as possible.”
“We must follow what Mary Manning and those very brave women did when, as Dunnes Stores workers, they decided not to handle South African goods. I have said this before. It was a very small act in one way but it turned out to be part of a much bigger boycott project, which became a major part of the anti-apartheid struggle. Sometimes you have to take a first step yourself. We will only see movement when we, alongside others, force the issue, and when the regular Israeli is made to feel like a pariah, when the American allies feel that there is too much heat even for them, and when capital interests in Israel feel they are not able to trade as they were previously. It is unfortunate that this is the road the world has to go down but we have been witnessing a brutal, genocidal action.”
“We have all had discussions in this Chamber about the genocidal action of Israel with the backing of the United States and the absolute madness of where we have found ourselves. It is particularly painful for those in Lebanon and Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. When we do have the Presidency, it is a means of moving on as much as we can in respect of the EU-Israel Association Agreement and, if we can, getting movement. I have heard from the Minister of State, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, and the Taoiseach and Tánaiste about that. It is a matter of us seeing progress, ensuring that we can deal with the trade element. The occupied territories Bill is as it is. We would much prefer if it covered services, but we have to use the absolute maximum that we have as regards leverage on Israel.”
“I heard Bernard Gloster, the previous chief of the HSE, say that the local authorities, from his point of view, should provide the housing and that disability services should be provided on top of that. If done in a completely planned and organised way, with the correct planning and funding, it is cheaper and better. An awful lot of parents are quite happy to look after their children. They just want to know there is a proper plan in place for the future. I find it hard to believe that we are still talking about this issue at this stage. The number of people who do not have a plan is through the roof. I commend the work of Before We Die.”
“If somebody cannot cope and that child ends up in an emergency department or somebody does die and there is nobody to look after that child, the State will then kick in. It will not have the preparatory work done beforehand but it will kick in, and then who is ready to jump in? It is the for-profit operators. There will be disputes about how much this costs, but let us assume on the basis of them being for-profit operators that they will charge more, because that is why they are in business. What happens? We end up in the position that the only people who can operate are those who cost the State and the taxpayer more. They may have a house which could be three counties over. The perfect situation is one where there is a proper conversation between the local authority, the HSE and all the disability services.”
“We know the 101 issues that exist in relation to schooling and education for those with disabilities. We are not at the races in any way, shape or form. I also commend, in my constituency, the work done by the recently stood-down Inclusion Louth, which was previously Dundalk Parents and Friends of the Intellectually Disabled. I think of Eoghan Bailey, Mary Darcy, Mary Connolly and many others. They are a group of parents who came together because they needed to make sure there was a future for their children who had disabilities. It is hard to believe that I can talk about the work they were doing 30 years ago, or further back, and consider that we are still no further on. What is the big issue that has been brought to us? It is that parents are worried that there is no plan in place for their child.”
“I thank Deputy Quaide and the Social Democrats for tabling this motion. I commend the Before We Die campaign, particularly Tony Murray, his wife Susan and their daughter, Aoife. Before We Die is aptly named. At the disability committee, many people have spoken about the fact that many parents feel frustrated and are incredibly worried about what will happen to their adult children with an intellectual disability. They are not sure what the future holds and some even say they feel incredibly guilty because they think that maybe their children will die before them, which would deal with that issue. Imagine having to feel like that. It is obviously utterly scandalous. I do not know how many times recently we have discussed the issues that exist and the failure to deliver decent disability, respite and residential services.”
“I requested that there would be a site visit, but beyond that, there are many questions to be answered. We need to ensure we have the correct protocols for dealing with issues of assaults and ensure there are sufficient staff and protection for those working there and that we ensure safety in Oberstown. I ask the Minister of State to bring this back to the Minister.”
“I ask that maximum effort be put into finding a solution to this and ensuring that we have a safe level of staffing and that we have the correct protocols for dealing with issues where there may be the possibility of violence and that we have the correct protections. We all know that on some level it is a societal failure when we are looking at children being detained in the first place. We all know that we have to put an awful lot more work into those early interventions and help for children and their families that could avoid if not all, then at least some of this. However, we need to ensure that we protect those who are working in what are very difficult circumstances. If they are not safe, it will be impossible for the children in their care to be safe. I have brought up this issue with the children's committee.”
“I ask that the Minister of State go to the Minister, Deputy Foley, and reiterate the point that this issue, first of all, should not have got here. This is abject failure. We all accept that it would be a difficult place to work and there would be very difficult situations. We are talking about children whom a determination has been made to detain. It frightens me when we hear about assaults on staff and insufficient safety for those who work there and the children detained there. This is not working. The only the only piece of positive news - and that is a bit of a stretch - is the fact that local engagement is scheduled for this coming Monday, in an effort to find a way forward.”
“What frightens me is that the industrial action continues and the issues have not been addressed. We can all talk about going through the correct protocols and procedures but we know there is the possibility of having conversations. If the underlying issues that caused the industrial action were dealt with, we would not be in this set of circumstances. I have to hand figures for legal fees and associated State Claims Agency payments in recent years. The figure was €132,806 in 2020, €901,590 in 2021, €482,454 in 2022, €845,645 in 2023, €826,541 in 2024 and €861,807 in 2024. That points to the serious issues that need to be addressed. This is not good enough. I hope the Minister of State can provide a helpful answer.”
“A union official has said: "Members have previously reported serious incidents at the facility, including assaults on staff and injuries requiring hospital treatment, in circumstances where staffing levels were stretched and operational demands intensified." That is the situation with which we are dealing. I am sure the Minister of State will talk about the State's industrial relations infrastructure and framework. However, the underlying issue at Oberstown arises from the problems with staffing capacity and the safety of those who work there. We have all heard about assaults that have happened previously. Like many others, I have heard from people working in the facility that there are huge issues that were not being addressed. It was no shock whatsoever to me that we got into a set of circumstances whereby we now have industrial action.”
“A union official has stated that the proposals put forward by management were "not grounded in operational reality" and did not adequately address the ongoing impact of staffing pressures on employees. It is all about safe delivery of services, including ensuring there is capacity and ensuring the safety of the people who work there and the young people detained there. Fórsa has stated: Members have repeatedly raised concerns that staffing shortfalls are placing unsustainable pressure on services and increasing risks in a challenging custodial environment for children and staff alike. If it isn't safe for staff, it cannot be safe for the young people in their care. That really is the crux of the matter.”
“I raise the issue of the industrial action being taken by staff at Oberstown Children Detention Campus. The facility looks after some of our most vulnerable children who have found themselves in a particular set of circumstances. Care is provided by social care workers and supervising officers both day and night. At maximum capacity, the centre can hold 42 boys and four girls. Since Thursday, 25 June, Fórsa members have been operating a work-to-rule measure after a ballot for industrial action received 91% support. The easiest way I can explain the circumstances and situations that have led to the industrial action is to refer to statements from Fórsa.”
“I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 39 and the name of the Member in each case: Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú - To discuss the ongoing industrial action at Oberstown. Deputy Tom Brabazon - To discuss consolidation of leases from the Department of Agriculture, Food and Marine to Howth Yacht Club. Deputy Ruth Coppinger - To discuss the sudden closure of an English language school in Limerick. Deputy Malcolm Byrne - To discuss the development of Bunclody Community College, County Wexford. Deputy Louise O'Reilly - To discuss the need for the provision of bus transport to the Flavours of Fingal show. The matters raised by Deputies Louise O'Reilly, Tom Brabazon, Ruairí Ó Murchú and Ruth Coppinger have been selected for discussion.”
“We must ensure we see that flexibility on backland development and rural rightsizing. We must also consider the wider idea of economic need and include the likes of teaching as a service, rather than simply those who work directly in agriculture. We all need to see that because we have seen the difficulty those who want to live in the area where they were born have in this regard. In the context of infrastructure, there are huge issues with Uisce Éireann. I am looking a follow-up meeting with Uisce Éireann in respect of my constituency. I would welcome if the Minister of State would add his voice to that. I am seeking to ensure that we have sustainable planning. There is currently a big planning application in Louth around Cú Chulainn’s Castle. I would like to think all necessary stakeholders have put in their observations.”
“We have worries that we could be looking at a circumstance where this could mean fewer homes being built for Irish speakers within Gaeltacht areas. That needs to be addressed. We have seen a bit more flexibility when it comes to one-off rural houses. I do not think there are too many in this House who come from rural backgrounds or who have huge rural areas in their constituencies who have not had to deal and have conversations with planners about what constitutes backland and ribbon development. We always look for that level of flexibility, while accepting that health and safety issues, particularly sight lines, are sacrosanct. At times, we have seen planners in different areas and those operating in the same areas come down differently on particular issues.”
“Those issues and fears came from a perspective to the effect that what we were doing was simply creating, on some level, a large piece of legislation that would be taken apart in court cases. Unfortunately, we still do not have a fit-for-purpose system to deliver sensible and sustainable planning, while also allowing for all the necessary inputs. At some level, we welcome the fact that we have seen something in respect of rural and Gaeltacht housing. We have all been waiting for guidelines on one-off houses in rural areas for a long time. We need to deal with the issue of the Gaeltacht. We must facilitate people from the Gaeltacht to live there. We must also take into account the rights of Irish speakers. I am not entirely sure that is going to happen, however.”
“Deputy Ó Broin spoke about how the Planning and Development Act 2024 was meant to be the be all and end all and that there would be no need for all these updates. That is not the position we find ourselves, however. I echo the complaints made by Deputy Ó Broin and others about this legislation being rushed. While we can accept that there are technicalities that need to be dealt with, this is just not the way to do it, particularly in circumstances where Committee Stage amendments needed to be submitted prior to Second Stage commencing. I recall talking to some planners about the Planning and Development Act. They spoke about the issues they had with and fears about the initial iterations of that legislation.”
“However, we need to see an occupied territories Bill that is as strong as possible and that we take as many people as possible from across Europe and beyond with us. I want an update on where the Minster sees the EU-Israel Association Agreement, which is a blemish on the European Union as we take up the Council Presidency. It is vital that there be movement there and that we play our part in maximising the chances of dealing with it, even if it is only with the trade element.”
“What we are looking for is quite simple, namely, that the occupied territories Bill be as strong as it can, which obviously includes services. Given what Israel has done and continues to do, be it in Palestine or Lebanon - those who want a greater Israel seem to be at the forefront of politics there at this point in time - we can all see that it is a matter of us ensuring that we play our part. It is good to see that others who should have moved faster are now moving or considering moving. That is what we have always spoken about. We talk about apartheid and Mary Manning, and we all accept that what was technically a small move by not handling South African goods and forcing it on Dunnes Stores and then others changed things because it was part of a wider movement.”
“Will we be able to deal with the trade element of the EU-Israel Association Agreement, which is beneficial to Israel and utterly disgraceful at this point in time? I accept that the Government has been forcing this issue, but we need to see action.”
“I have to agree with Deputy O'Gorman. Everyone in this House accepts the fact that Israel has been involved in genocidal and criminal actions that are unforgivable, whether we are talking about Gaza or the continuation of huge settlements that will break any possibility of a future Palestinian state. I have stated it many times that this is obviously what Benjamin Netanyahu wants to do, Sometimes, there can be an over-focus on Smotrich and Ben-Gvir. They are who they are and what they are, but he is the guy who put them in government. The fact is that it is hard to see not including services in the occupied territories Bill, OTB, as being anything other than a sop to some of the pressure from America. We have to follow it further. In relation to the EU-Israel Association Agreement, will there be a vote at the Foreign Affairs Council?”
“The fact is that we need a huge level of support, including early family supports to deal with the underlying issues in some of these cases.”
“We all welcome the action that was taken after the death of Veronica Guerin. It is a pity it took that. I do not think there is anyone who has not welcomed the action taken against the Kinahans. We need to see more of it - quicker, better and faster. It is as simple as that. I have seen many instances of the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, taking houses or vehicles off people. Unfortunately, that is just the cost of doing business and they are back in operation the next day. As much as we are not going to police our way out of this situation, we need to deal with those serious criminals who are involved in violence and using vulnerable and younger people to clean their money. It is vital we get the message out there. There will have to be action against those who are doing this.”
“We need to make sure we have the capacity to deal with everything from businesses to small operations that can build into big operations, where people were taking control of people's bank accounts, putting huge money through them and leaving them open to prosecution and whatever else.”
“The Minister is right. It is about getting the message out there that as much as somebody might stupidly fall into this, the ramifications for their future life can be serious, as they should be. It is not only kids who are involved in this. We are talking about some highly sophisticated operations. There is huge money in the drugs business. We know the huge impact it has on individuals and communities. The impact on communities is the reason the Committee on Drugs Use came up with the recommendations that it has. We know what is happening at the minute is insufficient and is not dealing with the issue. That is the reality, no matter what the Minister's view is on decriminalisation. We have to get serious.”