Michael Copeland
East Belfast · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“There are massive flaws, not least the fact that the male to female ratio of claimants is 7:3, with the vast majority of claims being from unemployed people under 25 — the easiest demographic to separate.”
“The Minister needs to bring forward the Bill and let the Chamber do its legislative job, which is to decide on it. It is wrong to assume that Northern Ireland is getting away in the smoke, because, to be frank, some of the reforms across the water have been shambolic. Universal credit was expected to be rolled out by the end of 2017.”
“Stop barracking, Sammy. I cannot remember a single thing that was given by the Minister. It had to be forced or drawn; it was protracted. That takes little cognisance of the people listening to this.”
“Thank you for the chance to contribute to the debate, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I stand here with the two great power blocs to my left and right: the land of "This must be done" and the land of "This will never be done". The truth is that, until we see that which is to be done, it is hard to make up your mind.”
“No, Sammy. <BR /> <BR />Fighting a DLA appeal on behalf of someone who took their life because you were not available on the day that they needed you to go to an appeal is a very heavy burden. I am sure that there are others in the Room who bear it. <BR /> <BR />Essentially, this is a row between the DUP and Sinn Féin.”
“The word "money" has repeatedly raised its head. I understand that the organising committee derives public funds and that it spends them engaging that particular group, which is based in the Irish Republic. I presume that that group did not travel here for free; the group will have received public money.”
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“— efficiently done. Thank you for reminding me that my time has run out.”
“A debate of this nature a few days before it serves no purpose except to add further concern for those who are afraid of change, whether that change be good or bad. Looking at the mainland, we can see that this has not been well done. It has not been —”
“Stop barracking, Sammy. I cannot remember a single thing that was given by the Minister. It had to be forced or drawn; it was protracted. That takes little cognisance of the people listening to this. The demographic that will be the most seriously affected is not the scroungers, even though they do not really exist, or the unemployed; it is low-paid working families with children. On the day that I sat on this seat and listened to a debate about how this was about making work pay, there were 67,253 people in receipt of unemployment benefit and 4,700 available jobs. It does not take you to be a mathematician to work out the odds on that. <BR /> <BR />If this must be done, bring it forward and do it. The proper place for legislation is in this Chamber.”
“No. We hear lots about packages. I cannot remember a single —”
“Bring it here. We hear lots of talk about the packages.”
“No, Sammy. <BR /> <BR />Fighting a DLA appeal on behalf of someone who took their life because you were not available on the day that they needed you to go to an appeal is a very heavy burden. I am sure that there are others in the Room who bear it. <BR /> <BR />Essentially, this is a row between the DUP and Sinn Féin. It is down in the castle. Sort it out. Bring us the legislation, and, when you do, we will tell you what we think.”
“There are massive flaws, not least the fact that the male to female ratio of claimants is 7:3, with the vast majority of claims being from unemployed people under 25 — the easiest demographic to separate. Considering that universal credit is estimated to cost the taxpayer £12·8 billion, if progress is not made soon, the cost of this will be over £1·1 million for every person currently claiming it. <BR /> <BR />Welfare needs to be reformed to make the system better and to make it work for people who need it. I have buried people — I am sure that many of us have — from my constituency who took their own life because of the outworkings of the previous system and the current system. I see little in the proposals thus far that indicates that we have taken any cognisance of the sheer and utter desperation of a vast demographic.”
“The Minister needs to bring forward the Bill and let the Chamber do its legislative job, which is to decide on it. It is wrong to assume that Northern Ireland is getting away in the smoke, because, to be frank, some of the reforms across the water have been shambolic. Universal credit was expected to be rolled out by the end of 2017. As of last month, 11,070 households were receiving universal credit. The policy in GB is clearly failing, and I see nothing to reinforce the view that it will do anything other than fail here. DWP is 986,740 short of the original target of moving one million people to universal credit by April. In fact, Iain Duncan Smith also missed his own revised and much downgraded target of 184,000. Given that there are currently 11,000 claimants, welfare reform is not working well there either.”
“Thank you for the chance to contribute to the debate, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I stand here with the two great power blocs to my left and right: the land of "This must be done" and the land of "This will never be done". The truth is that, until we see that which is to be done, it is hard to make up your mind. This legislation has been bogged down, I think, since 2012. At that stage, the Minister brought it forward, seemingly trying to implement it in its totality, including clauses that applied discounting as income compensation paid as a result of the London bombings. That was a slap in the face for many people here who were victims of bombings in the past. <BR /> <BR />We will not support the motion or the amendment.”
“I will follow on from Mr Allister's question: can you confirm whether, at any stage, the findings of your Department, and particularly the DFP internal inquiry, will be made public?”
“The word "money" has repeatedly raised its head. I understand that the organising committee derives public funds and that it spends them engaging that particular group, which is based in the Irish Republic. I presume that that group did not travel here for free; the group will have received public money. Can we have an assurance or an examination so that, despite what they have done, any public money they received is taxed either in Northern Ireland or in the South? Or was it money paid in a brown paper bag? We do not know.”
“<BR /> <BR />We are teetering on the edge of turning the principles of democracy on their head in this place, and the people outside do not get the opportunity to rig a jury. They do not get the opportunity to ignore the findings of a judge, except in some cases. I really believe that the issues and the ramifications of this affair will spread far and wide.”
“No. It is a useful warning to us to understand the mechanism that the petition of concern was originally designed to be. The petition of concern itself could, if used by the two greater parties, put any brake on any progress that we could ever make on behalf of the people in this Chamber. The relationship between the Executive and this legislative House is worthy of examination. The power may reside somewhere else, but the authority — the moral authority and the democratic authority — resides in this Chamber. When a Committee comes up with a finding that other Members may disagree with, it is a dangerous notion to put out that some Ministers — particularly those of both of the larger parties, given their numbers — could be, essentially, untouchable.”
“I rise with little joy. It is probably obvious to most in this Chamber that I did not benefit from a university education, and I would not describe myself as the sharpest tool in the box, but I can read, I can write, I can understand and I can form judgements. Contrary to what anyone else in the Chamber thinks or thought, I listened to the evidence as presented, and I was — regretfully, perhaps, by some — driven to the inescapable conclusion that the Minister was guilty as charged. <BR /> <BR />Every Committee of the Assembly that I have served on has, in its membership, particularly the Public Accounts Committee, set aside party allegiances and done what was right by the people who sent us there. This affair, for want of a better word, has descended into a ping-pong match of petition of concern and petition of concern across the Chamber.”