Dolores Kelly
Upper Bann · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“The legislation is only as good as its enforcement. It will be enabled by the sentences that judges and others may hand down, by cultural shifts and by changes in behaviour because of the penalties in place as a consequence. <BR /> <BR />We need to do much more with cybercrime units. We need proper resources for them.”
“It also covers the background to the Good Friday Agreement and the creation of this Assembly, as well as subsequent political negotiations over the years. The major figures and events over the past 100 years have been reflected in a way that ensures that all political perspectives of the Assembly are reflected.”
“I thank the Member for his question. An update on the current COVID-19 health and safety measures was issued to all users of Parliament Buildings on 1 March 2022. The update set out the current arrangements for ensuring the continuing safety of everyone in the Building.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am pleased to inform him that the review of the display of artefacts is at a very advanced stage. The Member may have seen the letter that the Speaker issued on behalf of the Assembly Commission earlier today.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a member of the Policing Board, I receive updates on a regular basis from the National Crime Agency (NCA), which has determined that between 16,000 and 23,000 children and young people are at risk from sexual offences and grooming online. Those are horrendous figures, and that must be a nightmare scenario for any family.”
“Thank you for your answer, Minister. You rightly outlined a lot of medical and therapeutic interventions, but many children are suffering post-traumatic stress-type symptoms or, indeed, social isolation as a consequence of COVID.”
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“As other Members have said, the safeguarding of children and young people is our priority. On reflection, are we paying the staff who are tasked to work in the care homes well enough, and have they the right skills, talents and attributes to look after our most vulnerable, given that there is, I am sure, a disparity between the pay scales of the third sector — the voluntary and community sector or charity sector; whatever you want to call it — and trusts?”
“I thank the Member for drawing that to our attention. I am acutely aware of that. As the Member will know, the Commission continuously reviews the guidance and does not second-guess the Executive. However, if there are issues with the provision of particular services, we want to hear about them. We will reassess that situation, make a recommendation and come back to the Member.”
“The Member is right to urge a cautious approach because we know that the infection continues to be rife throughout the community, although, thankfully, the consequences are not as fatal as they were a year ago or even a few months ago. However, while the Commission staff can issue instructions to other staff, it is for the party Whips and leaders to encourage the representatives of the political parties to pursue a cautionary approach and follow the guidelines.”
“Naturally, the use of hand sanitiser remains in place, as do the protective screens that have been in place for some time. The Assembly Commission is acutely aware that, in the absence of regulations, much of the response to the risk of COVID-19 infection is centred on personal responsibility. In that regard, the Assembly Commission commends the responsible approach adopted by Building users and encourages that to continue.”
“I thank the Member for his question. An update on the current COVID-19 health and safety measures was issued to all users of Parliament Buildings on 1 March 2022. The update set out the current arrangements for ensuring the continuing safety of everyone in the Building. The update noted that all coronavirus regulations have ended, but it also advised that the Assembly Commission will seek to follow the public health guidance that remains in place. That is entirely in line with the responsible and effective approach that has been adopted up to this point. <BR /> <BR />The current measures to ensure everyone’s safety include encouraging the wearing of face coverings in areas of the Building that can become congested and suggesting that a distance of 1 metre be maintained throughout Parliament Buildings.”
“It is not my understanding at this point that former Prime Ministers will be on permanent display, but I will ascertain the facts of that and write to the Member accordingly.”
“A number of figures will be on display. Obviously, there will be feedback required by the new Assembly in the new mandate on the success or otherwise of that. Given the number of artefacts that we have, however, that does not at this stage suggest —”
“Absolutely. That was very much at the forefront of the Assembly Commission's mind and of the instructions given to the officials. We relied heavily on Dr Eamon Phoenix and others to ensure that we had as diverse a range as possible. Obviously, it would have been much more reflective if politics in the past had reflected the diverse community that we reside in, particularly with women, but I think that we have done that.”
“The Commission believes that the exhibition will be a positive addition to the Building. This has been a significant project involving a lot of work for officials, and, on behalf of the Assembly Commission, I thank them for their hard work.”
“It also covers the background to the Good Friday Agreement and the creation of this Assembly, as well as subsequent political negotiations over the years. The major figures and events over the past 100 years have been reflected in a way that ensures that all political perspectives of the Assembly are reflected. It will see a number of portraits and photographs displayed in the corridors for the first time. It will also mean that a number of the Assembly Commission’s artefacts will be taken out of storage or moved from locations where they were not accessible to the public. <BR /> <BR />I highlight the fact that the Assembly Commission believes that the new range of items on display will be a major addition to the experience of visitors to the Building, and it seeks to provide visitors with a context to our current politics.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am pleased to inform him that the review of the display of artefacts is at a very advanced stage. The Member may have seen the letter that the Speaker issued on behalf of the Assembly Commission earlier today. <BR /> <BR />The review was undertaken by a working group comprised of officials and Dr Eamon Phoenix. It was conducted in line with a set of principles agreed by the Assembly Commission. While it is challenging, Members have been invited to a launch of the new display on Wednesday 23 March. I do not want to pre-empt the launch, but I will give Members an overview. The new display reflects the history of the parliamentary and political institutions connected to this Building. That includes the period from the original Parliament in 1921.”
“Thank you for your answer, Minister. You rightly outlined a lot of medical and therapeutic interventions, but many children are suffering post-traumatic stress-type symptoms or, indeed, social isolation as a consequence of COVID. At the weekend, I watched a programme in which children were being helped by a charity in partnership with a riding school. It was the same type of therapeutic intervention as happens with pets. Minister, will there be enough flexibility for and financial support to trusts to allow for that imaginative type of partnership to deal with that specific type of impact of long COVID in children?”
“<BR /> <BR />A huge cultural shift is therefore needed, and the legislation goes a long way to recognising the challenges that are present in modern society. As others have said, we cannot be complacent. We must be prepared, at short notice, to put in resources and to bring forward legislation to deal with whatever other offences and measures perpetrators might use to harm women and children in particular.”
“The legislation is only as good as its enforcement. It will be enabled by the sentences that judges and others may hand down, by cultural shifts and by changes in behaviour because of the penalties in place as a consequence. <BR /> <BR />We need to do much more with cybercrime units. We need proper resources for them. Perpetrators of crime are often a step ahead of the law. I hope that, in any forthcoming mandate, when we get an Executive up and running again, the parties that have praised the Bill put resources into its implementation, both to deter and prevent crime, through bringing charges and bringing numbers of people before the courts and through having education programmes and building positive relationships, thus creating a cultural shift. Some of the TV programmes that many of used to watch would be far from acceptable today.”
“<BR /> <BR />If I may say so, Mr Deputy Speaker, the BBC Northern Ireland 'Crime NI' programme tonight will outline and put out a fresh police appeal for witnesses in the murder of a young woman in my constituency, Laura Marshall. She was a 31-year-old dental nurse who was seriously assaulted and murdered in her apartment in Lurgan in April 2016. I hope that anyone watching today who might have the vital piece of information will step forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a member of the Policing Board, I receive updates on a regular basis from the National Crime Agency (NCA), which has determined that between 16,000 and 23,000 children and young people are at risk from sexual offences and grooming online. Those are horrendous figures, and that must be a nightmare scenario for any family. The legislation is welcome, but we need resources behind the legislation. As I am sure you will agree, Minister, there are concerns about progress on the backlog of Public Prosecution Service (PPS) cases and about how alleged offenders seek to manipulate the justice system by creating many delays. I hope that that will be rectified.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Bill at Final Stage. I recall elements of it being discussed in 2015, so it has been a long time coming and could have been on the statute book much earlier in the mandate, had we not had a suspension of three years. Nonetheless, I welcome the addition of offences, as outlined by Members, including that of upskirting, which follows a campaign by teachers who were the victims of it early in 2020. Mr Weir is right about having to be fleet of foot in the context of the changing dynamics and the threats faced by our children and young people and by women in particular.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will she join me in thanking the officers who, in trying to protect some of the most vulnerable, have to sit through pictures of very harrowing scenes? Does she agree that we owe them a debt of gratitude?”
“I know of the Minister's very strong commitment to having the infrastructure commission in place and having powers available to it. Unfortunately, with the latest collapse of the Executive, there will undoubtedly be repercussions for it. What assessment has the Minister made of those? More importantly, what assessment has she made of the lost opportunities and potential for the economy here to grow?”
“There are some that we want to hear about further that we may end up opposing, but we will make that decision as the debate continues.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also want to make the point, Mrs Dodds, that, unfortunately, the location of housing in which people live is dictating who goes to the local schools. When Margaret Ritchie was housing Minister, she piloted some shared housing, and we will hopefully see an awful lot more of that. I know that people value their schools as the hub of their communities. <BR /> <BR />I have accepted the Bill sponsor's commitment, and we have examined it ourselves, both in our scrutiny in Committee and in our discussions with the sectors. We do not buy into the myth that the Bill will create an uneven playing field that gives an advantage to the integrated sector over the maintained, or Catholic, sector. There are therefore a number of amendments that we will be supporting at this stage.”
“I spent some time last week with your colleague Carla Lockhart MP and Mr O'Dowd at Carrick Primary School in Lurgan, which is a controlled-sector school with over 500 pupils and, I think, 50:50 in its demographics. Some of our amendments address the issue of shared education and how successful it has been as a result of the sharing and pooling of resources. I for one, who was educated in the Catholic maintained sector and by the Sisters of Mercy at grammar school, would argue robustly against any charges that I learned sectarianism in school. That certainly was not the case. We talk about resources, and we are experiencing very tight financial constraints yet again, so I hope that the independent review of education will deal with the cost of education in a divided society.”
“All the research states that parents want, first, of course, a good education for their children. They want for them the best education, as well as the best pastoral care, which is increasingly important for children and young people when they come to choosing their school. In what is reflective of our changing society, a majority of people want our children to be educated together. If the review deals with —”
“There is another matter that I want to address. Bear with me, Mr Speaker, while I find my place. Given the way in which the amendments go, I am moving from one place to another. <BR /> <BR />Reluctantly, I concur with some Members that, unfortunately, the Bill has had to have a substantive amount of work done to it. I think that that has been to do with the rush towards the end of this mandate. I know that the Bill was scrutinised at Committee Stage, but the number of amendments tabled since causes me some level of concern. The SDLP has worked in good faith with the Bill sponsor, and she has accepted our good faith about the integrated sector. It is disingenuous of some on the opposite Benches to continue with the myth that the Bill is giving the integrated sector a leg-up.”
“We remain unconvinced of the proposer of amendment No 12's argument about replacing "must" with "may". We want to hear more about that. I do not know why amendment No 13 exists, given that all public bodies and Departments have a section 75 legislative duty already. It seems that that would just clutter up the Bill with an unnecessary amendment. I would like to hear a rationale for that amendment from the proposer.”
“One of the biggest difficulties with education is that the sector overall is under-resourced and underfunded. I hope that, in the next mandate, the Executive will acknowledge that education lifts people out of poverty and gives them the best opportunity in life. I hope that any future Education Minister gets the support of the whole Executive and receives a greater share of the resources that are available for education. <BR /> <BR />A number of the amendments are technical in nature. We support all of the technical amendments. We support amendment Nos 5 and 6. My colleague Justin McNulty will speak further to our amendment No 11, but I ask the House to support it. Having spoken to the Bill sponsor this morning, we are minded not to move, I think, amendment Nos 19 and 20.”
“I advise the Member that, having spoken to the Bill sponsor and received clarification this morning, we will not move amendment No 20.”
“Thank you, Mr Lyttle, for giving way. It is my understanding, despite the misinformation that seems to be in the public domain, that the Bill will, by putting integrated education on a more level playing field with the controlled and maintained sectors, give that sector a leg-up rather than giving it an advantage over any other sector. Can the Member confirm that?”
“It therefore has a sound legal basis. Similarly, we appreciate that amendment No 4 is a tidying-up amendment that adds to the Bill.”
“I wonder about the rationale behind that, and whether it has any implications for financial commitments that may bring a nugatory benefit. <BR /> <BR />We are not really sure what amendment No 2 is about. We would be keen to hear what legal authority that amendment is based on and the difference between the wording, and whether "and if required" is stronger than "or". <BR /> <BR />We absolutely support the fact that amendment No 3 is a tidying-up amendment, and contextualises clause 5 more appropriately by ensuring that it is applied in the context of Northern Ireland legislation. I understand that it follows advice that was provided to the Member by the OLC.”
“<BR /> <BR />The SDLP is striving to build an education system that not only promotes the highest academic standards, but enables every child to reach the limits of their potential so that they may become caring and contributing members of society, and an education system that is reflective of a much more diverse society than ever before. <BR /> <BR />I want to raise some issues with the amendments, and hopefully the Member will address them in her concluding remarks on the group. There are concerns that the word "must" that is inserted by amendment No 1 with regard to consultation will relate to any function, and about whether that would place too onerous a duty on the Department of Education to consult. I hope that I have got that right: it is amendment No 1 to clause 3, page 2, line 15, if that helps.”
“I welcome the fact that the Bill has reached this stage, even at this late stage of the mandate. The SDLP is, and has always been, committed to all our children having the opportunity to be educated in a truly world-class education system, and is fully supportive of the Executive's decision, as part of the New Decade, New Approach agreement, to commission an independent review of the education system. We look forward to the report that the review will produce, and recognise that it may make recommendations that will require legislative change, even to some matters that are as recent as the Bill that we are considering.”
“I have been caught in the wrong spot altogether. On the recommendations for the Budget, the Department of Justice is saying that the Prison Service and, more particularly, the Police Service deal with vulnerable people, as you know and as I said before. What representations and recommendations have you had from the Fiscal Council about dealing with people with vulnerabilities across the piece?”
“It caused such concern, anxiety and depression that the young man subsequently took his life. Will the legislation allow you, Minister, through Interpol or whatever, to follow through and arrest the perpetrator, or have the likes of the European arrest warrant and the Brexit shambles had any impact in being able to pursue such offenders internationally?”
“I accept what he said about the correlation between legislation here and the legislation on communications which, of course, is not a devolved matter. I hope that you might further explain how we can ensure that those who use the Dark Web for their evil acts eventually pay the price. <BR /> <BR />Forgive me, because I do not serve on the Justice Committee, but the other amendment I want to talk about is amendment No 5 in relation to offences against the person and the definition of someone who resides in or is a national of Northern Ireland. Minister, some people have exploited young people through online grooming. In one case, it led to the suicide of one of the young people, because he was threatened that the pictures he had sent to the other person would be published.”
“Like Mr Frew, I have not had the opportunity to speak on this Bill on domestic and sexual abuse. I was pleased to have been involved in previous passages of such legislation. I am very pleased to see it here today, albeit a few years too late because of our suspension. I commend the Minister and the Committee for their hard work and their deliberations over the past two years. My colleague Sinéad Bradley explained very well the good relationship between the Minister and the Committee in wanting to put the needs of victims first in the work that they have been doing and the effort that they have made. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you will have heard my comments to Mr Storey in relation to amendment No 19.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He may recall from when he was a member of the Policing Board having received a presentation from the National Crime Agency (NCA) about the Dark Web and the strangulation offence. Perpetrators were giving online classes on the Dark Web on how to control their partners. In his view, does the amendment go far enough to include those who would teach others, via the Dark Web, some of those evil habits?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. Will she agree that, often, it is the victim who is on trial in such circumstances and that this would provide some degree of comfort to the many victims of sexual and domestic violence who have not come forward for fear of how their personal details and lives would be trailed across social media and public forums?”
“Does the Minister share the bemusement of many that Jacob Rees-Mogg will now have to work for a living and actually deliver something in his new portfolio as the Brexit Opportunities Minister?”
“Minister, will you update us on the pay award claim from PSNI officers?”
“The Department for Infrastructure has continually been starved by the Executive and, in particular, the Finance Minister, who, over the past year, failed to fund even inescapable pressures in Northern Ireland Water and other arms of Infrastructure. If there is to be blame, there is plenty of it to go around.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Infrastructure gets all the blame for planning delays in infrastructure, but challenges by vested interests in the judicial review system hold up the legal system and cases from being heard. Vested interests can front up via community groups from time to time. I speak to my local planning service about delays, which I am very unhappy about, but the service tells me that the voluntary exit scheme had a hugely detrimental impact on it because many experienced planners left and it has been difficult to recruit planners ever since.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He makes valid points in linking investment in infrastructure — public transport in particular — with climate change. The issues can be collaborated on well, if the political will is there to do so. Does the Member agree that such collaboration would not only help investment in public transport to meet some of the climate change targets but act as a key economic driver for recovery?”
“In amendment No 51, new clause 16J(2)(d) would require Departments to consult the climate adviser on those policies and proposals. We also support amendment No 80 to expand the definition of sector or sectors.”
“The amendment that we propose in the group, No 51, identifies the desirability of coordinating proposals and policies with those elsewhere, and we ask Members for their support. It also requires Departments to engage in existing mechanisms of the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC), the British-Irish Council (BIC) and other bodies to cooperate on meeting the challenges of the climate emergency. <BR /> <BR />We have also identified the need for consideration of policies and proposals beyond those directly linked to carbon budgets, in particular, policies and proposals in pursuit of wider and longer-term Executive commitments on climate action.”
“I make these comments on behalf of my colleague Patsy McGlone, who has business in his constituency but will join the debate later today. <BR /> <BR />If the legislation is to be effective, it will have a huge and long-lasting impact on our society and economy. We share the concerns of others about gaps in the Bill in regard to the development of policies and proposals. We believe that the legislation should identify better ways to coordinate those policies across government and in collaboration with the rest of this island and with our neighbours in England, Scotland and Wales. <BR /> <BR />We will support amendment Nos 18 and 19 and amendment Nos 21 through to 28 on the development and publication of sectoral plans.”
“As a former rehabilitation day-care services manager, I know that the centres provided much more than respite. There was also intervention post illness or for disability. Will there be additional resources for allied health professionals to go in to rehabilitation centres to enable clients to maximise their opportunities?”
“I agree that people's health is a priority for, I am sure, every party here, but how is it defined across all Departments? Health has impacts for housing and education outcomes, in our prisons and in the calls that are made to police. When it is said that the money will be put towards health, how is that defined and what collaboration is there across the Executive?”
“I declare an interest, Minister, as I belong to a community group that has benefited from the rural community pollinator scheme. We hope to have something for you to look at in a few months' time when the community garden opens. <BR /> <BR />Minister, on the health and well-being piece, as a volunteer in community organisations, I find that, whilst there is money to deliver programmes, which the health service assists with, there is very little help with staffing costs and the provision of some expertise for the programmes. As we come out of COVID, how do you envisage moving forward on the demand for volunteers, and will there be support for management and supervision?”
“No, I want to ask a supplementary. I have not asked it yet.”