Philip McGuigan
North Antrim · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I concur with the Minister that patient safety is ultimately the top priority, but patient safety is also important, as the Member said, in terms of assessments. If you cannot get assessments, your safety is compromised.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Further to my party colleague's point of order about the DUP's internal investigation, what is the point of doing an investigation if you are telling us that you have nothing to answer for? You were the leader of the DUP at a time when accusations were levelled against Jeffrey Donaldson.”
“Minister, in your previous answers you talked about the pressures and the difficulties. You said that you were looking for a fair funding model, and you spoke of the need for taxpayers here to be treated equitably.”
“Minister, the inquiry found systematic abuse, neglect and serious governance failure at Muckamore Abbey Hospital over many years — failures that were not isolated incidents but reflected systematic issues across leadership, staffing, safeguarding and oversight that resulted in decades of physical and psychological abuse.”
“When I engage with health service sectors as my party's health spokesperson, there is not one that does not talk about workforce pressures and problems with staff recruitment and retention. That is clearly the case with doctors.”
“First Minister, you have spoken previously about the opportunities created as a result of our unique economic and trading position and about the increased potential that comes with all-island cooperation.”
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“As I was listening to everybody else, I was conscious that this is the fifth debate on climate change I have participated in since the Assembly resumed. I am also conscious that it probably took the previous four debates to bring the Minister to the position of bringing this legislation forward. I pay tribute to the activists, particularly the young people, and to the Climate Coalition, which has kept the issue in the headlines and forced the position where we now have two Bills before the House. <BR /> <BR />I was going to interject when you, Minister, and Mark H were having the discussion about the plastic bag levy. The Minister will be aware that I had my own private Member's Bill on single-use plastics.”
“to the North in terms of "reaching Net Zero". You seem to be an expert when it comes to all of the difficulties. Why did you not engage the same kind of expertise to try to produce the benefits economically, societally and environmentally for moving towards net zero?”
“I have quoted what the Minister said in his own document. The CCC also said:”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. His analysis of perceived difficulties, problems and costs with moving towards greenhouse gas reductions is very detailed. Is he equally as expert on the potential benefits? The CCC said that net zero:”
“Is he of the view that that there are plenty of economic opportunities for businesses, agriculture and all sectors across the North?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. He outlined some potential costs of moving towards reductions in greenhouse gases. Is he of the same view as he was in February 2021, when, in the foreword to his discussion document on a climate change Bill, he said that:”
“I have stated that gambling addiction is an illness, so it needs to be treated as such. That requires a public health approach from our Chief Medical Officer (CMO) and our Health Minister. Whatever about the addiction services that the health service provides for alcohol and drug addiction, when it comes to gambling, they are non-existent. I welcome the mandatory levy that will produce a fund to minimise the harm from gambling. That is a good start, but it should not absolve our health services from treating gambling harm with the seriousness that it deserves. I commend the Bill.”
“The report, which gives recommendations on self-exclusion, advertising, affordability checks and much more, is a useful contribution on the subject. <BR /> <BR />I noted the points about credit cards that other Members made. As someone who was able to rack up a substantial debt, using a range of credit cards solely for gambling, with no restriction, I will be extremely disappointed if that issue is not addressed in the Bill. I hope that the Minister can detail whether that is the case in her summing-up. <BR /> <BR />I am coming to the end of my remarks, but I cannot let any discussion on the subject go without expressing my view, which others have also stated, that, in order to tackle gambling-related harm properly, we must go beyond legislation from the Department for Communities.”
“If you are a sports fanatic, as I am, you will realise that such advertising is at saturation point on TV, on online platforms and in print media, as well as, unfortunately, at some sports grounds and on players' shirts. <BR /> <BR />I want to see the issue addressed, but, as we have said time and again, for it to be effective, any legislation on this island and beyond has to be compatible. As I said, we are not going to be able to stop people watching their favourite soccer team, even if it is Spurs, on TV. <BR /> <BR />Among the work that the APG on reducing harm related to gambling has done is to conduct an inquiry. The evidence that we obtained has made for some very useful recommendations. I hope that the Committee and the Minister will find that report helpful in their work and deliberations in this phase and in any future phases.”
“Absolutely. I assure Mark H that, for gambling, as I do with any other policy or legislation, I want to see an all-Ireland approach. The point has been made, however, that this goes much further and wider than the particular island on which we live. <BR /> <BR />The campaign group Gambling with Lives was mentioned earlier. Along with my colleague Robbie Butler from the APG, I look forward to welcoming representatives from Gambling with Lives to the Long Gallery tomorrow to launch its education programme on gambling issues for young people. The group has been to the forefront of the campaign for better legislation across these islands. It has also been to the forefront of the campaign against gambling advertising.”
“As has been pointed out about other things, it would be foolish to try to tackle or ban gambling advertisements, when we can all switch on our TV and watch Sky Sports, or any sports programme, and be inundated with advertising. We cannot do it. There is a certain logic to dealing with this important issue across these islands. That is the point that I am making.”
“<BR /> <BR />Kellie Armstrong said that doing that would be an enormous piece of work. I agree with that. If my experience on the APG on reducing harm related to gambling has taught me anything, it is that not only would it be an enormous piece of work but it would be very complicated legislation to get right. It would be impossible to tackle in the remainder of this mandate. As I said, they have been tackling it for over two years in Westminster. They have been tackling it for a long time in the South. I am not saying that we should copy Westminster, as I would never accept that. We can, however, learn from what it does and share it.”
“It is not what I was going to say, but I note that, in the previous contribution, your party colleague said that we need to look at the legislation of other jurisdictions. That is the point that I am making. This is complicated. I would not argue against any Minister who put forward a rational approach to the way forward with regard to important legislation. The Minister sitting beside me has done that. There are very good reasons for her doing that. Mr Butler and I, who sit together on the APG, have explored some of the issues, and they are very complicated. With online companies, you are dealing with jurisdictions, offshores, regulation and the gathering of information. All of that is very complicated, and there is absolutely no way that it could all be dealt with properly in the remaining time of this mandate.”
“I want to see those things being tackled in the next phase of the legislation, which will be brought forward in the next mandate. Those things are currently being looked at in Westminster, but they are complicated and time is required to get them right. I totally agree with everyone who has laboured on the importance of dealing with the issues that arise from online gambling.”
“I will answer that point later in my contribution. <BR /> <BR />Dealing with online gambling is very complicated. They have been looking at legislation in Westminster since 2019 and have yet to reach a conclusion because of its complications, which is why we need, in the short time that is left in this mandate, to approach this issue in the way in which the Minister proposes. <BR /> <BR />Nicotine is put in cigarettes for a particular reason, and we all know what that reason is. That could also be said about some of the gambling products that are offered by gambling companies, particularly online companies, along with the growth of in-play betting, the speed of online games and betting, introductory offers, free bets, VIP schemes and much more.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention, and I totally concur. I have had the privilege of working with you on the all-party group (APG) on gambling-related harm. That is one of the aspects that we certainly discussed and would like to see in phase 2. <BR /> <BR />I raised the statistic about 83% profit from 2% of customers. If you understand that statistic, you realise that there is little incentive for gambling companies to regulate themselves. That is why legislation is vital. We need to see responsible policy and legislation from government, followed by responsible provision by operators, to allow and assist responsible consumption by customers.”
“Those profits, by and large, come from a small proportion of gamblers. In one instance, a company made 83% of its huge profit from only 2% of its customers.”
“As outlined by the Minister, the second phase is to bring forward a completely new regulatory framework to regulate online gambling, including gaming machines. That will require a longer time frame than we have in this mandate, but it will be a crucial piece of work. <BR /> <BR />My own experience of gambling was not so much of being in bookies' shops or gambling premises, but of sitting at home with a laptop or an iPad, or on the move using my phone. There is open access 24 hours per day and seven days per week, with absolutely no limits and little or no effective restriction, control or regulation. In my experience from my time gambling online, online platforms for gambling were like the Wild West. As a result, they created many casualties. Online gambling companies make huge profits. In some cases, they make obscene profits.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am not a member of the Communities Committee, but I wish it luck in the process of scrutinising the detail of the Bill. I do not think that any of us will disagree with any suggestions that can improve the resulting legislation. We need change. That fact has been endorsed by everybody's contribution. We have waited for 35 years, so it is imperative that we get this legislation through in this mandate. <BR /> <BR />As I said, this legislation has the potential to improve and save people's lives. We need a socially responsible gambling industry and a much better balance between the freedom to gamble and protection from the social and financial risks that gambling entails. This Bill is part of the process. The Minister has already outlined that it is only a part of the process. It is the beginning.”
“I also welcome Minister Hargey's intention to rectify a situation that needs to be rectified. In the debate, I have listened to criticisms of her two-phased approach to modernising the legislation, even though the Minister dealt with many of the issues raised in her opening remarks and will no doubt deal with them in her closing contribution. <BR /> <BR />It is clear that this Bill will tighten up important aspects that need to be tightened up, such as creating the new offence in relation to allowing children to play gaming machines, broadening the definition of cheating to include attempted cheating, establishing a mandatory code of practice for those holding gambling licences and creating powers to impose a statutory levy on gambling operators. Those things need to happen and can happen now.”
“No person or business should have anything to fear from good legislation. Good legislation will have no impact on, nor will it remove the enjoyment from, the many people who can gamble safely. However, it can and will reduce the potential for gambling-related harm. <BR /> <BR />Minister Hargey is bringing forward the first overhaul of gambling legislation in the North for over 30 years. She has been in office for 18 months. Others have pontificated about why the Minister is not doing more or why one thing or another is not included in the Bill and asked what is the cause of the delay. The Minister has been in office for 18 months. Other parties in the Chamber have held this responsibility in some of the preceding 35 years, so I am delighted that it is a Sinn Féin Minister who is bringing forward the legislation.”
“I mention them purely because they are staggering and should be a cause for concern. Another cause for concern is the fact that suicide as a result of gambling addiction is statistically higher than that as a result of any other form of addiction. I have witnessed people struggling with the impact of that addiction until they could not struggle any longer. <BR /> <BR />At this juncture, I need to state, as others have, that I am not anti-gambling. My experiences have not made me anti-gambling, and I was not anti-gambling before I became addicted to gambling. Many in society, including my friends and family, gain fun and enjoyment from betting on sports, on the lottery and so on. We have a problem, however. It is not a problem with gamblers; it is a problem with legislation.”
“Gambling addiction is an illness that does not discriminate between female and male. It does not take into account how much or how little you earn, what job you do, where you live, or how old or young you are. In fact, given the design of modern gambling products, the growth of gambling harm within our young population is increasingly a cause for concern. <BR /> <BR />Even though information gathering on gambling harm is pretty poor in this jurisdiction, it is estimated that 2·3% of the North's population suffers from gambling harm. As the Chair of the Committee for Communities pointed out, that equates to 40,000 individuals, which is four times higher than in England, Scotland or Wales and three times higher than in the South. I know that people have already quoted those statistics.”
“I should declare at the outset, even though it is no secret, that I am a recovering gambling addict and have suffered at the hands of this very serious illness that, unfortunately, affects too many individuals and families across society. Anyone who suffers from any addiction will know that there are many times when it is impossible to believe that there is a way out. So, when I say that I am glad to stand today and speak to this important legislation, I assure you that I really mean it.”
“Minister, given the identified need for change that was outlined in the RHI inquiry report and the capacity and capability review, will you outline the steps that you are taking to improve recruitment in the Civil Service?”
“Given that wildlife is not aware of and does not take note of arbitrary boundaries, what level of cooperation does the NIEA have with its counterparts across the rest of Ireland when conducting wildlife assessments?”
“A move away from full jury trials is a retreat from the principle that every citizen has the right to a fair trial and equal access to justice. <BR /> <BR />We have an opportunity, if we choose, to develop well-informed, balanced and up-to-date legislation that has been informed by a proper analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of defamation law in our neighbouring jurisdictions. The South in particular, as was mentioned, will soon report on its plans to update its defamation law. <BR /> <BR />I conclude by reiterating that the 2013 Act was unsuitable for this jurisdiction in 2013, and it is my belief that it still remains unsuitable. However, although we have reservations, we will not block the vote.”
“Another aspect of the Bill is its attempt to deal with libel tourism. However, as the Committee heard through a research paper and from the Bill sponsor, libel tourism does not seem to be a problem here in the North. The statistics show that the average number of defamation cases a year has decreased since 2013. <BR /> <BR />I am deeply concerned about the clause to move away from jury trials in favour of judge-only trials. I raised that point in Committee and say again that surely the Bill sponsor can appreciate the controversial nature of that clause here in the North. Public confidence in our legal system has at times been at best fragile, to say the least. Full jury trials are an important part of ensuring that public confidence remains high.”
“I remain unconvinced after that session that the Bill will deal effectively with all the issues that have been raised by Members across the House. I remain unconvinced that the Bill will deal effectively with online abuse. I have serious concerns, as others have, about the "serious harm" clause.”
“I welcome the opportunity to contribute briefly to the debate on the Defamation Bill. <BR /> <BR />As my party colleague Maolíosa McHugh pointed out, legislation in the area is desirable, in the sense that the current laws are outdated and there is undoubtedly a case for more modern laws that are fit for purpose. I remain unconvinced, however, that this private Member's Bill is the best vehicle for that. <BR /> <BR />I am a member of the Finance Committee, and I had the opportunity, along with other Committee members, to hear the Bill sponsor answer the Committee's questions.”
“The Minister will be aware that the contract for the Nightingale courts that were used during the pandemic ended on 3 September. Has that contract been renewed? Will those continue to exist?”
“The Minister will be aware that the way in which businesses and consumers carry out transactions is changing and will continue to change. I thank the Minister for his update on the work of the fiscal commission. As part of its wider remit, will the fiscal commission consider an online sales tax to help level the playing field between bricks-and-mortar businesses and those that sell online?”
“At its meeting on 24 June, the Committee considered the advice of the Examiner of Statutory Rules, who drew no specific attention to issues of concern. Therefore, the Committee is content with the proposals from the Department and recommends that the Assembly confirm the statutory rule.”
“The significant financial support that has been provided to the sector by local and national Governments throughout the last 18 months has been welcome, and the regulations will go some way to extending that support. However, the Committee is conscious that the industry still faces stark challenges in price recovery given the phased easement of restrictions in the hospitality and tourism sector and different levels of lockdown across Europe. Therefore, financial support will be required in the short and medium term to stabilise the sector and ensure a viable recovery from the impact of the pandemic. <BR /> <BR />The Committee was content with the merits of the policy at SL1 stage and raised no issues.”
“I welcome the opportunity to outline the views of the Committee. <BR /> <BR />The Committee considered the regulations at SL1 stage on 10 June 2021 and welcomes the introduction of the scheme that extends a compensatory package that was initially introduced in October 2020 in order to support sea fishing vessels in respect of their fixed costs. The regulations will enable two additional vessels to claim compensation in addition to the 49 vessels that have already made successful applications. <BR /> <BR />The Committee is aware of the significant challenges that have been placed on the local sea fishing industry due to COVID-19, which led to a sharp and dramatic fall in the demand for fish and shellfish products, a huge drop in market prices and economic challenges for fishing communities.”
“Will the Minister outline how scoring for the social value policy will be enforced?”
“I welcome the content of the statement. Others have talked about aspects of it such as the living wage and creating jobs in deprived areas. As my party's environment spokesperson, I welcome that the policy delivers environmental benefits and transition towards net zero. On page 5 of the statement, it says:”
“Given my comments about the vagueness of the letter, what lessons will the Department learn from this and previous reviews on how it communicates with patients in instances such as this and, indeed, how it supports patients in instances such as this?”
“I am disappointed, Minister, that I have had to wait until 6.00 pm to ask this question. Indeed, I could go further: perhaps, given the seriousness of the issue, the Minister should have come to the House of his own volition and made a statement to MLAs and, beyond MLAs, to the wider public, rather than having to be asked. <BR /> <BR />Like other MLAs, I presume, I have been contacted today by constituents who have received the letter. In conversation with one lady, she said that it was "a massive shock", especially as, to her, the wording of the letter was very vague and, given her shock, she had to read it a couple of times to comprehend what it contained. <BR /> <BR />This is not the first review. The Department has seen a number of reviews and recalls in the past few years.”
“Was there any discussion, at the meeting, on the health impact of gambling addiction, and, if not, will you commit to raising it at the next meeting?”
“I thank the Minister and all the Members who have wished me well since I have come back. I have put on record — it is important to do so — my thanks for the professionalism, courtesy and good humour of all the staff who I encountered during my stay in hospital. <BR /> <BR />In your statement, Minister, you indicated the ongoing and welcome work on this island in health promotion in areas such as alcohol, drugs, obesity and suicide prevention. You will be aware of the work being carried out in the North by the Communities Minister in trying to bring gambling legislation into the modern era. The current, very serious and growing problem of gambling addiction on this island needs a public health focus, over and above a legislative one, for education, prevention and recovery strategies.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer and for her continued commitment and determination to assist those on low incomes — a commitment clearly demonstrated by the establishment of the discretionary support panel. Will she provide an update on her plans to extend the benefit mitigation package in light of the budget settlement?”
“I congratulate the Member on his use of that intervention. I wholeheartedly agree. We should be passionate about making travel to school safe for our children. I agree with the point about school patrols. I also agree that that is outside this Minister's remit, but there should be a 20 mph limit outside schools. We need to work to ensure that there is active travel provision so that our children can walk and cycle safely to school. I totally agree with what the Member said.”
“Communities in rural areas should be able to access, after 5.00 pm, at the weekend and during the two months over the summer, good sporting and other facilities that are on their doorstep. For example, why not incorporate state-of-the-art facilities in St Killian's and allow the numerous GAA, soccer, rugby, rowing and athletic clubs in the constituency to use them? Those are just a number of things that I would like to see.”
“Some are spending as much as three hours travelling to and from school, perhaps because they are being taken, as it has been described to me, on a tour of East Antrim rather than via the most direct route. Again, Minister, that needs to be reviewed to ensure that those children spend less time travelling and more time at school and at home. <BR /> <BR />This is a general point about all schools, which has been raised by Gordon Lyons and others. I spoke earlier about St Killian's new build. New builds need to take account of more than just the educational needs of our school community, given the lack of sporting and other facilities, particularly in rural parts of the constituency. The Department needs to make provisions to allow schools to have excellent sporting facilities and to open up those facilities to the general public.”
“Given the issues with planning and infrastructure in places like Cushendun, Cushendall, Glenariff etc, young people have to build away from where they were brought up or buy outside the community in which they were reared, and that has an impact on primary school enrolment in those places. While that is not the direct responsibility of the Minister, he needs to help to address that with his Executive colleagues. <BR /> <BR />School transport in the constituency is another issue that has been flagged up to me, particularly for children attending special educational needs schools in Ballymena and Larne. Some of those children are being picked up as early as 8.00 am and are not getting to school until after 9.00 am, and they are not getting home until after 4.30 pm.”
“<BR /> <BR />Parts of East Antrim are particularly rural, and, whilst this is not an issue specific to schools, planning constraints and infrastructure deficits in parts of the glens of Antrim are having a major impact on our rural school estate, and I echo the commentary from John Stewart on rural schools.”
“When my party colleague John O'Dowd announced and committed to a new school building in 2014, no one expected that, by 2021, no sod had yet been dug. I echo and agree with all the commentary from other Members on other schools. St Killian's is in stage 3 of planning with Mid and East Antrim Council and, hopefully, is on track for Christmas 2022. However, more than a whole school generation of pupils has missed out on a modern school environment because of bureaucracy and delay in the process. In a similar situation in another school in my constituency, I recall a member of the board of governors describing the process as trying to wade through treacle. Minister, that needs to be streamlined. We need to ensure the speedier delivery of new school buildings when they are announced.”
“I thank Gordon Lyons for securing the debate. I echo the comments from others in praising the school staff across the constituency of East Antrim for their work and commitment every year, but particularly this year. East Antrim is not my constituency, of course, but it neighbours my constituency of North Antrim. A small number of pupils in parts in the glens of Antrim, for example, attend schools in East Antrim. Therefore, I have a few issues pertaining to the debate that I want to put on record. <BR /> <BR />St Killian's College, on the coast road, is on one of the most picturesque and beautiful sites anywhere on this island. However, it has a building meant for 600 pupils and a current enrolment of 850.”
“Notwithstanding the fact that climate legislation was a commitment in 'New Decade, New Approach' (NDNA), my colleague and Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee, Declan McAleer, tabled a motion calling on you to introduce a climate Bill almost a year ago. The private Member's Bill that is in motion and is supported by the Assembly is a response to your failure to act. Given the important issue at stake and the extremely tight time frame, does the Minister agree that his time would be better spent engaging with the existing Bill, rather than attempting to belatedly bring forward his own?”