Pat Ramsey
Foyle · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“In light of the extensive reporting of the investigation, there is deep worry and concern amongst the families of staff and prisoners. Can the Minister give us an assurance that he is doing everything in his power to ensure the safety of the staff and prisoners in Maghaberry?”
“On her death, Lisa was awarded an ambassador role by the Singapore Government because of the level of donations she was able to give. Around 50 people got some form of donated organs from Lisa as a result of her untimely death.”
“I hope that, if the Bill passes, the number of transplants will seriously increase, as Jo-Anne Dobson outlined, and I have no doubt that it will. Lives will be saved. <BR /> <BR />I will take personal and political pleasure in supporting the Bill's passage to the Committee.”
“I say to the Member again that there is an opportunity for DUP members of the Health Committee to pose questions and to challenge. If they have concerns, they can raise those concerns. Like other Members, I would like to see an opportunity for the Bill, and I believe that it is a good Bill.”
“The increased awareness and discussion coming out of this is very helpful, as it will encourage and stimulate debate among the medical fraternity and clinicians. Alastair, you have been in some of the meetings where we had senior clinicians voicing their clear support in Northern Ireland for the Bill.”
“I am delighted to be able to talk in the debate today. I declare my membership of the all-party group on organ donation. <BR /> <BR />I have watched with interest over the years the political role that Jo-Anne Dobson has played in, and the passion that she has had for, elevating and promoting organ donation.”
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“I congratulate the Minister and wish her well in her new appointment. You referred in an earlier answer to inferior materials being used on the road: can you assure the House that that was resolved at no additional cost to the public purse?”
“In light of the extensive reporting of the investigation, there is deep worry and concern amongst the families of staff and prisoners. Can the Minister give us an assurance that he is doing everything in his power to ensure the safety of the staff and prisoners in Maghaberry?”
“I hope that, if the Bill passes, the number of transplants will seriously increase, as Jo-Anne Dobson outlined, and I have no doubt that it will. Lives will be saved. <BR /> <BR />I will take personal and political pleasure in supporting the Bill's passage to the Committee. I say to Members across the way that they should give it a chance. Nothing will happen. It will go through Committee, and there may be areas of it that the DUP wants to amend or feels should be changed. Have any of you met Jo-Anne Dobson to personally go through it to see what areas, doubts or concerns there are? That is the challenge. I encourage you to talk to Jo-Anne Dobson and her advisers, get an insight into where she is coming from, and maybe we can progress things a lot better. I certainly support the Bill.”
“The increased awareness and discussion coming out of this is very helpful, as it will encourage and stimulate debate among the medical fraternity and clinicians. Alastair, you have been in some of the meetings where we had senior clinicians voicing their clear support in Northern Ireland for the Bill. <BR /> <BR />The family safeguards in the Bill will ensure that families are more involved in organ transplantation, unless the person himself or herself has expressly chosen to opt out. Locally, under the current system, 30% of the population are registered, despite the fact that UK-wide surveys have shown that 90% of individuals are willing to donate organs. At the end of September this year, there were 162 patients in Northern Ireland on the transplant list.”
“I say to the Member again that there is an opportunity for DUP members of the Health Committee to pose questions and to challenge. If they have concerns, they can raise those concerns. Like other Members, I would like to see an opportunity for the Bill, and I believe that it is a good Bill. As Jo-Anne Dobson outlined very clearly and admirably, it will save lives. The Member persists in shaking his head, but anyway. <BR /> <BR />For many families, it is difficult to discuss an untimely death, even with those who are very close to it. I referred to Sharon and Dennis Orsi: they took pride, at their daughter's death, in the fact that she was able to invigorate and give life back to so many people in Singapore. I see the same happening here if the Bill progresses.”
“The Member has certainly been very articulate about his reasons. He has justifiable reasons, some of them, may I add, very fundamental. I do not accept that —”
“I did not identify you as being negative, but you have certainly been very challenging. Those challenges can play a part in the process during the Committee's scrutiny of the Bill in those areas of evidence. Let the Committee scrutinise; let it find out where there is evidence and where there is lack of evidence. The important thing is that there is a Bill here that people want to amend. If people want to look at different areas, then let us hear their ideas. <BR /> <BR />We have heard that 83% of the respondents that took part in that consultation were supportive. That is a big majority of that figure of 1,300 people. The Member is still shaking his head. I hope, Alastair, that —”
“People can question the validity of this or that aspect of the Bill, but the whole purpose of this Second Stage is to enable it to go to the Committee for effective and appropriate scrutiny. Those Members who have been negative have not just been negative during this debate. I have seen them having the same negativity at the organ donation group meetings, and not being clear on it. I think that there is an opportunity —”
“On her death, Lisa was awarded an ambassador role by the Singapore Government because of the level of donations she was able to give. Around 50 people got some form of donated organs from Lisa as a result of her untimely death. It was a heartache and a serious trauma for the family, but they took great solace and comfort from, and were proud of, the fact that Lisa was able to give a quality of life back to so many people in Singapore. That is the basis — a very personal basis — that I am coming from: knowing the effect and the desired outcome that it will have, not just in saving lives but clearly, in other cases, in improving the quality of life for many people. <BR /> <BR />In advance of the Bill being brought forward, a comprehensive consultation process was undertaken — almost 1,300 responses. We cannot ignore that.”
“<BR /> <BR />I welcome the additional duties in the Bill that will ensure that the Department of Health will actively promote and increase awareness of transplantation. It will also ensure that the Department provides information about transplantation, deemed consent and the role of family and friends. <BR /> <BR />During the debate, I have been reflecting on the very untimely death, a few months back, of one of my constituents, Lisa Orsi. Lisa was a young student, 22 years of age, who had graduated and was working as a physiotherapist in a hospital in Singapore. She went trekking with a number of her friends and died after taking altitude sickness. I know the family — Dennis, her father and Sharon, her mother — would like me to reflect on their case.”
“I am aware of her hard work, determination and commitment in pushing through this legislation on organ donation. <BR /> <BR />I have heard other Members talking about it, and I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that this Bill will change lives. The Bill aims to change organ donation laws, moving from an opt-in to an opt-out system. I am grateful for the safeguards that the Bill will put in place, with appropriate family safeguards, a requirement for express consent in certain cases and the ability for people to nominate advocates to affirm wishes upon their deaths. A key provision set out in clause 2 of the Bill is that transplantation activities are lawful only if there is consent.”
“I am delighted to be able to talk in the debate today. I declare my membership of the all-party group on organ donation. <BR /> <BR />I have watched with interest over the years the political role that Jo-Anne Dobson has played in, and the passion that she has had for, elevating and promoting organ donation. Clearly, she has a huge personal interest in it. I have also noticed the compassion of a mother coming through, as she has tried to ensure that other families in a similar position reach the desired outcome of a transplant that can save the life of their loved one. <BR /> <BR />The SDLP supported what Jo-Anne Dobson is proposing in her Bill in our manifesto. It is an important piece of legislation, and I commend Mrs Dobson for bringing it to the House.”
“I thank the Minister for his response. I have heard you in the media on the issue, but it is still concerns many parents that in the early years their children are not getting the appropriate, holistic and individually tailored plans that are necessary for a child's progression. Can you outline the steps the Department is taking to bring forward a more strategic approach to ensure that a child's development at an early stage is being progressed consistently?”
“I thank the Minister for her response. Clearly, many people across Northern Ireland look to the creative industries and what they can provide for the future. I know that the Committee has had a huge interest in that. Will the Minister outline the investment made by the Department or the Executive in the creative industries over the past four years?”
“There is a major crisis in social housing across Northern Ireland, and every Member would agree with me that we need many more housing developments of a social nature. Will the Minister ensure that she has that conversation with the Minister for Social Development to see how the Department of Finance could help to progress capital moneys to housing associations?”
“I thank the Minister for her response. She indicated in it that she hopes to have 100 officials relocated to Ballykelly in the north-west by 2017. Will the Minister outline to the House how many staff will ultimately be working for DARD in the north-west area once the plan is complete?”
“The Committee was aware of the number of options that you had in going forward to try to get a resolution between Stranmillis and St Mary's. Can the Minister assure the House that he will compromise on his position to get a consensual way forward to ensure that the ethos and management of both colleges remain intact?”
“Will he ensure that the widening participation strategy is a key part of the Big Conversation that he is going to have?”
“I thank the Minister for the statement. He is never short of a few words when it comes to it, and he has not disappointed us today. The big conversation in Northern Ireland at the moment is about the loss of jobs, capacity and courses and particularly the downward trend in student numbers. Following on from Bronwyn McGahan's question, the major concern is that the big impact in cities across Northern Ireland will be that young people will not go across to England. The widening participation strategy, which was highly complimented in the universities and by the Minister and the Committee for Employment and Learning, will fail drastically because our young people will now have nowhere to go. They will leave education and become part of the NEET bracket.”
“I thank the Minister for his very detailed response. Clearly, the subject is getting some traction in the Department. Given the concerns, particularly in new build, from disabled people, older people and groups representing them, I think that it is time that the Department took affirmative action. Of the most recent scheme in my constituency, almost 130 houses are not yet completed, and we have just one bungalow. That does not meet the needs of the community and the constituency that I represent. In the absence of Mervyn Storey, can I ask for a meeting with those representing disabled and older people to discuss the subject matter?”
“The Minister's response is most welcome. I think that he would acknowledge the significant contribution that the community and voluntary sector makes across Northern Ireland in working with people with disabilities, those with chronic ill health problems and those who act as carers in those organisations. Will he outline to the House any discussions that he has had with NICVA on behalf of the community and voluntary sector to get its buy-in for the new programme that he intends to bring forward?”
“Like Bronwyn, I want to see how we are going to help those furthest away who have not achieved in post-primary, either because they have been unable to achieve it or because they have a learning difficulty or disability.”
“I warmly welcome the statement from the Minister and commend the Department's staff as well for taking on board a lot of Members' comments. I warmly welcome the robust data collection and information gathering, which is necessary to prepare for the future. However, I am concerned that this statement is mainly about those who are achievers and who are going into level 2. <BR /> <BR />I am more deeply worried — the Committee has always been more challenged on this — about those who are furthest away from the market and who are on the same ESF programme that you talked about. Large numbers of young people are not able to achieve level 1 and will not be able to progress to this new youth training programme.”
“Following on from your response to Mrs Overend, it is important that the point be made clearly that, over the summer, you would want to reflect on the concerns that Sandra and other Members have, particularly on that issue, and meet those who have those concerns to try to get some reconciliation.”
“I thank the Minister for his very warm response to the question. To advance it a bit further, I think that it is important that the focus be not just on tourism. There is an economic value and an infrastructural and social benefit as well. Can the Minister speak about the possibility of visiting some of the areas, including Aberdeen, Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow, to see on the ground the effect that the initiative is having there and the lift that it is giving to local communities?”
“I want to follow on from my colleague in Foyle and press the Minister on acknowledging that we have the highest level of unemployment in the north-west — in Derry and Strabane — and the highest level of economic inactivity. Given that the First Minister and deputy First Minister have acknowledged the importance of ensuring that there is regional balance when it comes to economic opportunities and access to employment, will the Minister outline when the priorities of the ministerial subgroup will be looking at these regional imbalances?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In light of the temperatures that we will have over the next few days, would you be minded to relax the dress code for Members in the Chamber, particularly those male folk who may want to take off their jacket?”
“We now await our directorate's review of security in the House. Under no circumstances can he, or should he be permitted to, say that this is something that is being dismissed by the Assembly Commission, because that is not accurate.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He knows fine well, with his career in law, that in any investigation, the police have the principal call in determining who is responsible. We are respecting that. <BR /> <BR />There are no circumstances where the Assembly Commission as a whole, or the directorate, wants to sweep this under the carpet as he implies. As I outlined to a number of Members, the Assembly Commission has taken this quite seriously. There is that police investigation, and, to date, they have interviewed all those employees who had access to the roof on that date. The Assembly directorate's team has clearly carried out its own internal audit of the circumstances leading up to the incident. I made it clear to the Member who spoke previously that the contractor fully complied and cooperated with the investigation.”
“I assure the Member that the contractor has cooperated fully with the investigation internally. As for laying blame, which most people want to do, as well as to find out who was responsible for this incident, it is the case that we are awaiting the outcome of the police investigation. <BR /> <BR />We are fully content that the contractor fully supported the police investigation as well, so we are awaiting the outcome of that before we can make a definitive statement about whether someone is liable or is to be prosecuted as a result of this.”
“We have an imperative to ensure that safety is uppermost in our thoughts. <BR /> <BR />As I said, we are discussing this issue tomorrow at the Assembly Commission. We will be reviewing, as we constantly do, ongoing security and the threat to it. We look forward not only to the police investigation and assessment of the security risk but to our internal review of security.”
“I think that, because there was a breach of security to the Building and of access to it, it is imperative for the Assembly Commission to take appropriate action to try to ensure that it does not happen again. It is not a matter of the seriousness of whether it was a flag; it could have been a bomb. <BR /> <BR />It is important that the Assembly Commission takes appropriate steps, whether that means the police investigation that is under way to determine who was at fault and whether they can lay blame or prefer charges. I am sure that the Member would also agree that it is important and imperative for the Assembly Commission to ensure the safety of not just Members and staff but the high volume of visitors. Look at the Public Gallery this afternoon and the number of children who were here.”
“It certainly was not a breach of the contract. On the question of who had responsibility for the roof, let me say that the contractor has full responsibility for the upkeep of and access to the roof. That is the case in any project that is undertaken, particularly one of this significant nature. As the Member will be aware, there is a police investigation under way into the incident on the roof, and because of that, the Assembly Commission is not in a position to lay blame until it ultimately finds out the outcome of that investigation.”
“The Assembly Commission's internal staff are, coincidentally, due to bring a report to tomorrow's Assembly Commission meeting. As a result of that report, we will then consider whether it is appropriate to seek an internal independent assessment on security risk as well.”
“I thank the Member for the question. He raised the point of health and safety. I can assure him that there was never any concern about health and safety. During the completion of the project, which is very close at hand, there were two minor incidents separate to the flag incident which were well under control and where there was no health and safety risk as we understand it. They were completely under control by the contractor. <BR /> <BR />With regard to going forward on the point on which the Member reflects, security is always a question. It is always something that the Assembly Commission reviews on a constant basis. The police are presently undertaking a further security risk assessment on Parliament Buildings. We are due to receive that report soon.”
“Members will have also noted that the Speaker wrote to all Members on 8 June providing a report on the Commission's consideration of this incident.”
“First, the flag-raising mechanisms on the flagpoles were temporarily decommissioned to prevent flags being raised on the flagpoles. Secondly, access to that particular area of the roof was restricted. This was achieved by the addition of one locking mechanism and the replacement of another on the two access doors that lead to that area of the roof. Finally, CCTV cameras were installed in the vicinity of the flagpoles. Images from these cameras are seen directly in the control room. <BR /> <BR />Further to this, the Assembly's operational procedures relating to workmen's security clearance and the issue of contractors' passes will also now be subject to review as part of the wide-ranging review of security arrangements in Parliament Buildings to be undertaken by the Commission.”
“I propose to take questions 4 and 5 together. I thank the Members for their questions. <BR /> <BR />The Members will be aware that in order to facilitate the roof project, which is nearing completion, the fourth floor and all of the roofs of Parliament Buildings are presently in the possession of the main contractor for the works. As required under the contract, temporary barriers and signage are in place to deter unwarranted access to the contractor's site, although there is a requirement to maintain access and egress for the contractor's workmen in the event of fire evacuation. <BR /> <BR />Following the incident in question, the Commission, in conjunction with the contractor, took the following steps immediately to minimise the risk of any further recurrence.”
“Why is there limited cross-border engagement when considering areas that are so close to the border that that level of cooperation would clearly make sense?”
“The grim reality of the situation is that, at the same time as we are trying to introduce welfare reforms, we are reducing the number of skilled operators who are there to provide a service to those whom we expect to be taken off benefits and put into work. We are removing them and making them redundant; we are forcing them out of work. <BR /> <BR />I say this genuinely and in good faith to the Minister: the Budget should put investment, in reasonable balance, towards infrastructure and changing the psyche about access to employment opportunities. Unfortunately, my constituency has been failed.”
“I am finishing, Mr Speaker, but I want to acknowledge the serious contribution of the blue light services across Northern Ireland — the Fire and Rescue Service and the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service — and the work that they do for us all at the most important times in saving lives. I will include Foyle Search and Rescue, even though it is not officially a blue light service, which is at breaking point. I see the crews and speak to some of the people, and I promised that I would raise its situation. <BR /> <BR />The Minister for Employment and Learning is not here, although he was present for most of the debate. There was a major protest outside one of our jobs and benefits offices in Derry today.”
“They do not see the ball bouncing their way at all. I think it is the role of the Finance Minister to ensure that, when funding decisions and the Budget comes around, consideration must be given to those who are already adversely affected are not further marginalised and pushed further away from the centre. <BR /> <BR />People talk about the welfare reforms. People would not mind the welfare reforms being implemented if there were opportunities for work. I could stand here and defend the position of welfare reform if young people, and not so young people, had access to work, but, in Derry, how many times less likely are you to secure a job than in some other constituencies? Some constituencies have 2% unemployment compared with almost 8% in Foyle.”
“However, unfortunately, when the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (NISRA) team came to give the figures to the Employment and Learning Committee in November of that year, we learned that unemployment rose by 2% in that period. We need to focus our efforts. I do not have the figures here, but I was going over them this afternoon. Derry has almost 8% unemployment. Compared with other parliamentary constituencies, unemployment in the Foyle constituency is twice or three times more or 3%, 4% or 5% higher than in other constituencies. There is something wrong with those figures, and those were for May. <BR /> <BR />While great efforts are being made to turn things around in a period of recession, unfortunately, the people who I represent do not see them turning around in their context.”
“<BR /> <BR />I appreciate the immediate difficulties in the finances but we must consider, too, the positive impacts that greater investment in transport links will bring to the city of Derry and the north-west of Ireland in general. Despite continuous hard work carried out over a number of years in the One Plan, the Derry and north-west public still await delivery. <BR /> <BR />I do not want to sound as though I am whingeing. A lot of good things have happened in the city. The City of Culture year brought a tremendous feeling of self-worth and a greater sense of pride. Everybody was expecting the true legacy of the City of Culture to be a higher level of employment opportunities.”
“<BR /> <BR />We will not be able to attract appropriate investment or stimulate growth until we have better infrastructure in the north-west. The deputy First Minister, in response to my question last week, said that the key elements of the discussions at the North/South Ministerial Council and with the ministerial subgroup were the A5 and A6. As the Minister, who did a fine job as Enterprise Minister, knows fine well, when you are trying to companies to Northern Ireland, the first thing that they look for is adequate infrastructure, but we do not have it. That is the regional imbalance that needs to be resolved once and for all. It is a legacy of so many years of unfairness and wrong decisions taken against the wishes of the people of my area.”
“It is hugely disappointing to learn that it is now not able to proceed with the purchase of land on the old Foyle and Londonderry site on Northland Road. We all endeavoured, through unity of purpose in the city, to ensure that St Mary's College was facilitated on the old Templemore site. Foyle and Londonderry College was facilitated by a new school in the Waterside. The third part of that tripod was the development and retention of land on Northland Road, the old Foyle and Londonderry site, for future generations in the city. Minister, you may want to examine working collaboratively with the university to find a creative way of ensuring that that land is saved, not for this generation or even the next but for future generations of young people and the economic betterment of not just Derry but the north-west.”
“The only way that difference can be made is through economic development, infrastructural changes and increases in third-level education places. An economic package is required in the city. <BR /> <BR />I name Magee as one example. Here we have the most important economic development project that could ever take place in the north-west. It is not just for Derry; it is for the north-west, and the benefit would be for the student population in Northern Ireland. But, with each passing semester, we are losing our young people and their skills and talents to another region or country further afield. This further contributes to our unemployment deficit in Derry and the north-west and the high number of our young people who leave to seek work in the east of the Province. <BR /> <BR />Ulster University made announcements this week.”
“I hope that it recognises the level of regional inequality in access to education, transport and work. The present Finance Minister is well aware of the high levels of unemployment and the especially high levels of economic inactivity in the north-west. She has endeavoured to work with the Employment and Learning Minister to try to come to a stage of looking at very innovative and creative ways of trying to make a difference to the quality of life for people who find themselves in those unfortunate positions. <BR /> <BR />Sammy Wilson talked about apathy. The level of apathy and disillusionment among people in my constituency is very strong, and there are justifiable reasons for it. It was announced last week that the north-west gateway initiative is being reinvigorated in trying to make a difference to the quality of people's lives.”
“It is a worrying trend, particularly for parents, when they are trying to create an environment of independence for their son or daughter who may have those difficulties. I urge the Minister today once more to continue to provide that vital service for those with learning disabilities throughout all our higher education institutions and colleges and to consider how to best support them in the current period of financial uncertainty. <BR /> <BR />I will now speak about the role of the Budget in exacerbating regional imbalance. I welcome the creation of the ministerial subgroup aimed at tackling regional inequalities in the economy here. Initially, we were told, it will focus on the north-west, and there is good reason for doing so. I hope that it can create positive outcomes, not just for my constituency of Derry.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will also make a point as chair of the all-party group on learning disability. Earlier this year, the House debated the Special Educational Needs and Disability Bill. I raised specific concerns relating to the funding for those with special needs who are pursuing further education. I welcome the fact that the Minister has decided to retain the higher education support that the Department currently provides for those with learning disabilities, and the fact that he is not cutting the disability employment programme. It is important in all this to say that young people who leave school with a learning disability are four times less likely to secure employment than even those in the NEET category that I talked about.”