Gregory Campbell
East Londonderry · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I begin my contribution by thanking all the staff in this Assembly and in previous Assemblies, whom I found to be extremely courteous, diligent and helpful at all times. <BR /> <BR />I spent yesterday morning in the Senate Chamber at an event for victims, and I sat beside one of our youngest councillors in Northern Ireland.”
“We took the right decisions when it would have been easier to take the wrong ones, and, for that, we make no apology. For our stance, our statements and our comments since then, we make no apology whatsoever — none. <BR /> <BR />Over the last five years, people yearned for delivery, which has begun under the guidance of the DUP.”
“The Minister referred to the £6·7 billion that would be required over 30 years. He, obviously, had an exceptionally difficult task when determining whether an increase would be due in Housing Executive rents.”
“If a large sporting arena is close to a residential development, it is paramount that the organisers of the events liaise closely with residents, if there is a formal residents' structure in the area, to make sure that access to and departure from an event are done promptly and in a manner that does not give rise to concerns among residen…”
“The 9.00 pm threshold, which has been alluded to several times, was the subject of some scrutiny by the Committee, particularly in respect of the games — quite a few games — at the Kingspan Stadium that commence around 7.00 pm or 7.30 pm and therefore run close to the 9.00 pm threshold.”
“I will start where the Chair left off and append my congratulations to Carl Frampton. It was certainly clear on Saturday night that the Ulster boys were making all the noise everywhere they went. We wish him every success for the future.”
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“I am not standing for election with my colleagues, but I am standing on the same ground, with them and beside them, and, together, we will take this country forward to be a much better place.”
“We took the right decisions when it would have been easier to take the wrong ones, and, for that, we make no apology. For our stance, our statements and our comments since then, we make no apology whatsoever — none. <BR /> <BR />Over the last five years, people yearned for delivery, which has begun under the guidance of the DUP. Planning for the future cannot and must not mean forgetting the past. Those who caused our bloody and deceitful past will not be allowed to erase their part in it. However much they try, they will not be allowed to do that. Battles must still be fought. For me, the arena will change and the venue will be different, but that campaign must and will be waged until it is won.”
“I begin my contribution by thanking all the staff in this Assembly and in previous Assemblies, whom I found to be extremely courteous, diligent and helpful at all times. <BR /> <BR />I spent yesterday morning in the Senate Chamber at an event for victims, and I sat beside one of our youngest councillors in Northern Ireland. I asked him his age, and he told me that he was 24. I then pointed out to him that I was first elected to this Chamber in 1982, 10 years before he was even born. In the first 20 years of that time, violence was prolific. Politics was mired in quicksand. An agreement was always essential, but the right basis for getting it eluded parties here. When the right basis was eventually established, it still meant that hard and difficult choices had to be made. The DUP made the right choice and choices.”
“From Westminster, where he would like us to go back to.”
“The Minister referred to the £6·7 billion that would be required over 30 years. He, obviously, had an exceptionally difficult task when determining whether an increase would be due in Housing Executive rents. Will he state how and why he came to that decision, given that there are many vulnerable people who work and pay their full rent and will, I am sure, be well pleased that the rental increase is zero this year?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Despite his lack of confidence or lack of faith in the progress of the Bill, there has been, as he outlined, a very significant degree of consultation and discussion. Would he not agree that, however much people complain in the discussions that we have from time to time about the state of play at Stormont, its capability to reform is exemplified in this discussion today and how far his Bill has progressed?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. On that point, which was raised earlier, does she accept that, although it is essential that Kingspan and Ulster Rugby liaise closely with the residents to minimise any disruption, it would be virtually impossible to enshrine anything like that within a legislative process?”
“Does the Minister agree that the sport of rowing yielded a very considerable haul at the last Olympics through Alan Campbell, who is no relation of mine, and the Chambers brothers, and that the developing sport now means that younger rowers are coming on exceptionally well? Does she also agree that we want to see more gold medals for Britain on the podium at the next Olympics?”
“— Second in command (2IC) in paramilitary history in the history of the world.”
“The deputy First Minister refers to detrimental contributions by paramilitarism. Would he not agree with me that that has always been the case? It does not hold much water when, every time that I and others have indicated to him his past involvement in paramilitary groups, which was equally detrimental, he has denied involvement in or knowledge of every incident mentioned to hime, which leaves people with the conclusion that he was the most overpromoted —”
“The junior Minister referred to work being done in various areas, including Londonderry. Is she able to give the House and the wider community any idea of where she sees the community across Northern Ireland being in, say, five years' time, at the end of the next Assembly mandate, after the Together: Building a United Community programme has had a chance to roll out?”
“If a large sporting arena is close to a residential development, it is paramount that the organisers of the events liaise closely with residents, if there is a formal residents' structure in the area, to make sure that access to and departure from an event are done promptly and in a manner that does not give rise to concerns among residents. A number of issues, although not directly related to the Bill, are, hopefully, being resolved. The Ulster Rugby people, I understand, are busily engaged in a much more comprehensive discussion with residents, and hopefully that will allay any fears. <BR /> <BR />The Member tabled a number of technical amendments. There may be one or two other minor amendments that Members may wish to consider in the next day or two, which I am sure we will reach at Further Consideration Stage next week.”
“The 9.00 pm threshold, which has been alluded to several times, was the subject of some scrutiny by the Committee, particularly in respect of the games — quite a few games — at the Kingspan Stadium that commence around 7.00 pm or 7.30 pm and therefore run close to the 9.00 pm threshold. Certainly, if people want to stay on after the game, the 9.00 pm threshold affects them, particularly if they are families, and quite a few of those attending the games are. Therefore, an issue arises of access to alcohol by those under 18 years of age. <BR /> <BR />The other issue that came up in Committee was residents' concerns, and a number of residents made representations to the Committee.”
“I will start where the Chair left off and append my congratulations to Carl Frampton. It was certainly clear on Saturday night that the Ulster boys were making all the noise everywhere they went. We wish him every success for the future. <BR /> <BR />In acknowledging the progress made thus far with Ms Cochrane's Bill, I will say that the vast majority of the amendments that we are discussing are mainly technical. I do not wish, therefore, to waste time analysing them, as they do not fundamentally or structurally change the Bill.”
“Can she elaborate today or, if not today, subsequently in writing on the timeline for all of her departmental officials to analyse those things to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland?”
“The Minister will be well aware, I am sure, of the considerable time that officials in her Department have to spend when they are facing EU restrictions, bureaucracy, guidelines and the fines issues, which has just been mentioned.”
“This is not a question about the EU, as the people of the United Kingdom, in the next three months, will decide that, but the issue relates to our membership of the EU.”
“As part of the regional opportunities group, will the First Minister endeavour to make sure that Northern Ireland has the best possible mobile phone network across all parts of rural Northern Ireland so that people can communicate by phone, text and other social media outlets, such as Twitter and Facebook, and can do so effectively, safely and without the prospect of running up a huge bill, directly or indirectly?”
“Immediately after those comments were made, I checked the record of the House, which reveals that there were 17 such occasions on which I lobbied the Minister for schools in my constituency. I wrote to him immediately afterwards asking him to correct his inaccurate assertion. I then wrote to him on Thursday and asked him whether he was planning to do that in the House. Can you, Mr Speaker, confirm or otherwise whether the Education Minister has applied to you to rectify what appears to be his politically prejudiced, inaccurate comment to me last week?”
“No, it is a completely separate one. Last week, the Education Minister took a topical question from me in which I raised the issue of rebuilding schools in my constituency. In his reply, he stated:”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He is alluding to the private Member's Bill that he introduced and, of course, there were other private Member's Bills that Members in that corner in particular were able to get, contrary to what we just heard in the rant from Mr Allister. He is now elaborating on some of the further progress that we need to make. Does he agree with me that, whatever about the degree and the rate of progress, we are going in the right direction — when some said that we would never get there?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Is he seriously suggesting that some of us are not concerned about the mechanism by which we arrive at the destination, as long as we arrive there? Is he seriously suggesting that, if the Assembly and Executive arrived at a conclusion via Fresh Start, whatever he thinks about it, about establishing an opposition, then at some point beyond that the Executive parties, large or small, having established an opposition by whatever means, would then row back from that? Surely he is not suggesting that?”
“Does the Minister not agree that talking about nightmare situations in the context of a Brexit position does not help the discussion, which should be a rational discussion of whether the UK and Northern Ireland as part of the UK stay in Europe or leave it? The uncertainty about the financial assistance that may be on offer to our farming communities, which she rightly talked about, exists equally whether we stay in Europe or leave it.”
“Will the Minister outline whether the resources originally envisaged to be allocated to local authorities for the important duties that will be transferred across will be reflected in reality?”
“It is like you to refuse to answer the question.”
“The deputy First Minister indicated that everyone has a role to play, and that is welcome. How does he feel, while trying to show forward thinking and leadership to bring the community together, about the former terrorist who, when questioned by police in the Republic on Friday, followed his lead by declining to give any information about a person, still alive, who had been involved in the Birmingham pub bombs — given that the deputy First Minister took exactly the same stance when he was in the box at the Saville inquiry by refusing to name anyone involved in terrorism with him?”
“The Minister referred to the current revaluation. Will he update the House on its impact on empty retail and commercial premises in our towns and cities?”
“Does the Minister agree that it is one thing for a high-profile escape such as that to occur but another for it to occur on television? That makes things even more difficult for him and the Prison Service. If a high-risk prisoner is going into Londonderry courthouse or any other court in Northern Ireland in future, can the Minister assure the public that they will not be put at risk as a result of that person being able to escape from lawful custody?”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was unaware that I was going to be called. The Minister is not long in office and has been reporting on a meeting at which he was not present. Would he agree with me that the housing stress in West Tyrone that he mentioned is applicable across Northern Ireland and that the housing associations will need to concentrate their minds on that in 2016-17?”
“He never shirked the responsibility that he had for all those years. <BR /> <BR />We wish you well for the future, Peter. We hope that you will not take your retirement too seriously and that you will be available, if called on, for advice. We hope and pray that you and your family will enjoy your retirement. May God richly bless you for the future.”
“I first stood for election in 1977 — 40 years ago next year. In that time, I have known Peter Robinson as a colleague and a friend. We engaged throughout Northern Ireland on a whole series of political meetings and discussions. Those discussions, particularly in the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s, involved conversations about how we could move the country forward. They involved going to places such as the United States of America, South Africa, mainland Europe and elsewhere. Of course, Peter brought to unionism an incisive knowledge and belief that terror had to stop, those who advocate terror had to cease doing so, those who did not recognise the courts had not only to recognise but support them and the rule of law, and, when they did so, anything was possible. That was the nub of the difficulty that we had for so many years.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just before the Christmas recess, each Member received a letter from your office dated 7 December. It was a letter from the deputy First Minister. I will not read the entire letter, but it said that he was writing to correct a reference that he made during Question Time, which was that another Member had not voted in the recent debate on the legislative consent motion for welfare reform, but that a review of the voting records for that item showed that he did vote on that matter. Obviously, it is good that, when an error is made, the Member responsible rectifies it, but did an apology for the incorrect reference accompany the letter and we did not get it, or was no apology given for the incorrect assertion?”
“As long as she is not coming towards you.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. The deputy First Minister referred to good progress being made, and that is true. Does he not agree that better progress would be made if, for example, he tried to shore up whatever credibility he has with his past? On a number of occasions in the Chamber, I have alluded to his possession of a sub-machine gun, as was contained in the Saville report; his involvement, if he had any, in the shooting dead of two policemen three days before Bloody Sunday; the Claudy bomb; and the murder of a prison officer a few years after Bloody Sunday. Those things all happened when the deputy First Minister was the 2IC of the Provisional IRA in Londonderry, yet he denied knowledge or involvement in any of them. So, where does his credibility stand?”
“Further to that point of order, my understanding is that the Member has a declaration in the Register of Members' Interests, which is one thing. However, another issue is that it is requirable, as I understand it, that, whenever a Member's company or an association with a company is on the record and a person is coming before a Committee that that Member serves on, they should declare that interest, whatever the business, at the outset of any discussions. That was not done last week.”
“None was declared. I seek your guidance and advice on how to proceed on this matter.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your advice and guidance on a matter that has come to my attention. Last week, the Finance and Personnel Committee continued to conduct its investigations as part of its inquiry into the National Asset Management Agency (NAMA) sale. My understanding is that, at a previous meeting, a member of the Finance Committee, Mr Máirtín Muilleoir, failed to declare his interest in a company that does financial dealings and financial transactions with a bookmaking firm whose director was in front of the Committee to give evidence. While I know, Mr Speaker, that these matters may well be entered in the Register of Members' Interests, as I understand it, there is a duty and an obligation on Members to register at the outset of any meeting where a person is appearing whether they have such an interest to declare.”
“Would the Minister, then, be content if the support body were to ensure, for the present and the future, that parity of funding in capital and revenue is uppermost in its mind and, hopefully, concentrate the mind of this Minister and future Ministers on that aspect as well?”
“It is early days since the working tax credit money amounting to some £240 million over four years landed on the Executive's desk, but has the Minister had an opportunity to turn his mind to any application for sums from that source to further some of those capital build programmes?”
“Can the Minister reassure the House and the public that sufficient steps will be taken at the careers advisory forum to ensure that the suitability and appropriateness of positions in the public and private sectors will be borne in mind when schools look at the projects?”
“I appreciate that it is some time until the championships next summer and that diaries are not yet filling up. Is it the Minister's intention, diaries permitting, to be in attendance in France at the football championships and to maybe change the habit of a lifetime and actually support Northern Ireland?”
“The Minister will be aware that, a considerable number of years ago, there was a concern because there were too few Protestant employees in the much larger section of the Civil Service than in any of the other sections. Hopefully, she will be able to keep that matter under review and, if required, adopt a policy that other public-sector bodies have had to adopt, which is intervention to ensure that there is equitable treatment across the communities.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. While he is on the subject of the regional disparities seen in various countries — he is right about that — does he agree that, given what the Member who moved the motion said about sectarianism, the people of Donegal, for example, in the Irish Republic were hardly discriminated against on grounds of sectarianism by their Government and yet they constantly complain about not getting jobs there?”
“Can the Minister assure the House that, when the reviewed code of conduct sees the light of day, we will not have a repeat of the current position that at least one councillor in Northern Ireland, in Londonderry and Strabane, has not only been convicted of a criminal offence but has repeatedly not only refused to condemn terrorist incidents but expressed his support for dissident republican activity? I am sure that the Minister is well aware of whom I speak. That person remains an elected representative and is not seen as having breached the current code of conduct.”
“I am glad to hear that work is continuing. Does the junior Minister agree that it is important that the needs of those who were severely physically injured during the Troubles are paramount in the consideration of this issue and that the focus of attention does not become an assuaging of any guilt for what she and the deputy First Minister may have done in the past?”
“The Minister has outlined the EQIA process, but is she aware that, in the Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council area, for example, where the local action group (LAG) delivers rural development programme funding, the councillor make-up is broadly reflective of the political and religious breakdown but the social partners are not, given that 80% of the social partners are from the nationalist community in an area that is probably 75% unionist? Will she ensure that consideration is given to community background when ascertaining in future the composition of local action groups, because delivery of funding flows from those groups?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He said that a public opinion poll showed that about 68% were in favour. Does he agree that that is just a little bit lower than the figure that traditional opinion polls throughout the UK have given for those in favour of the return of capital punishment? Would he go there?”
“I thank the Member for giving way, even if he did it in a rather resigned fashion. He has used the term "on a journey" twice in his contribution. Normally, when most people set out on a journey, they know their ultimate destination. Can he explain the ultimate destination of the journey that he and, he says, we are on?”
“So, I ask — I will furnish the Speaker's Office with both photographs — whether you could investigate that, because, obviously, there was an attempt to project our non-attendance here at some debate by way of a photograph that was taken during a division. The Hansard report and the time on the photograph prove that it was during a division and not a debate, as they erroneously attempted to convey.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Last Tuesday, during proceedings of the Assembly, it would appear that there was some form of breach, and I ask for your guidance. I do not know what can be done about it, but I certainly ask you to investigate it. <BR /> <BR />On an SDLP social media site, there were two photographs of proceedings juxtaposed beside each other that appear to have been taken in Parliament Buildings because of the time stamp on them. One of the pictures shows our Benches during a debate, and another claims to show our Benches during another debate, but the time shows that it was actually during a division, not a debate.”