Trevor Clarke
South Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“For recruitment to the current Youth Assembly and on the basis of research on the youth demographic in Northern Ireland, a minimum of 10 young people with disabilities were sought in order to be representative of the data. Of the 90 young people appointed to the Youth Assembly, 18 have a disability.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Youth Assembly regularly uses social media to promote its work, and, when preparing for a new mandate, targeted multimedia recruitment campaigns are used to engage young people and encourage participation.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Assembly Commission also has an apprenticeship and placement framework that provides the opportunity for people with a disability to avail themselves of short-term supported placements.”
“In 2025, 770 tours were delivered and the number of events hosted in Parliament Buildings almost doubled to 583. <BR /> <BR />Our Education Service promotes its programmes to schools and colleges through an annual September mail-out, outlining provision for the relevant Key Stages, including a focus on inclusive engagement for children wi…”
“Mr Speaker, I may require an extra minute to answer the question. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Member for her question. The Assembly Commission's school work experience programme is facilitated through a partnership between our internal education services team and an organisation called Futures For All, a social mobility charity.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, with your permission, I may need an extra minute to answer the question, and I thank the Member for it. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly Commission's public engagement strategy 2025-27 aims to increase awareness, improve understanding and enable participation in the work of the Assembly.”
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“I thank the Member for her question. I am only here to give the opinion of the Commission and cannot speak in my personal capacity. However, when I look at examples of answers to questions that may have been asked today, there is nothing that covers that. However, it is reasonable to assume that, given that the dignity at work policy covers staff, it is something that the Commission should reflect on. Representatives present will be listening to that, and it is something that can be raised at a future meeting.”
“The wearing of distinctive clothing or sportswear could be deemed offensive by others and is, therefore, generally not permitted. The dignity at work policy covers Assembly Commission staff, agency workers and inward secondees. The policy does not cover Members, their support staff or other Building pass-holders who are not Assembly Commission staff or visitors.”
“I thank the Member for her question. References to wearing sporting paraphernalia are in a number of Assembly Commission policies in order to take account of the different categories of users of Parliament Buildings. The Assembly Commission's staff handbook contains a dignity at work policy, which aims to make Assembly Commission staff aware of the types of behaviour that may cause offence. It also highlights the sources of information and assistance that are available and the procedures for dealing with unwanted and unreasonable offensive behaviours. <BR /> <BR />The dignity at work policy details some of the common forms of unwanted, unreasonable and offensive conduct that it deals with, and it provides specific examples of such conduct.”
“There was consideration given at the Assembly Commission to doing the whole Building. Consensus was reached on doing the east and west ends. The Building is not in such disrepair that it is causing much negativity other than among Members like yourself and others. However, doing the rest of the Building is under consideration for the future.”
“All decorative features, metalwork and windows etc are to be protected throughout all cleaning processes. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly Commission has agreed that the east and west ends of the Building will be cleaned in the current financial year, subject to receipt of listed building consent.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Assembly Commission takes its responsibility to maintain this historic Building extremely seriously. <BR /> <BR />As Parliament Buildings is a grade A listed building, there are strict guidelines governing how cleaning, repairs and other maintenance works are carried out. The first step in the process is to seek and receive listed building consent for proposed works. A proprietary application was made in September 2024 in relation to the specialist cleaning and repointing of the Building. The Building's age and listed building status mean that all cleaning and the repointing of joints will be agreed with a conservation architect and will conform to the British Standard code of practice on the cleaning of buildings and surface repair of buildings.”
“I appreciate what the Minister has said about value for money. Given that she has overall responsibility for the Budget in the Assembly, does her Department scrutinise those schemes to find out the net benefit for Northern Ireland as a whole, or are they just seen as some sort of environmental scheme that that Minister wants to push to the detriment of our farmers?”
“I thank the Minister for her response on ring-fencing budget for struggling farmers. She is minded to do that, and I welcome that.”
“I thank the Minister for outlining that it is not Mrs Dodds's fault how he has turned out. It is important to have that on the record. <BR /> <BR />The Minister referred to some of the issues discussed. Did the topic of school twinning across the rest of the UK come up, or was it discussed?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement and congratulate him for bringing forward the scheme. I have listened to some of the questions and heard some of those who will receive the payment coming up with all sorts of ideas because they do not want it. Of course, they are in the privileged position of not requiring it, but many people do require it. Is there a danger that some of the ideas from some of those in the Chamber who may receive the payment would lead to some of the money being used to implement the scheme instead of going to pensioners? There would be a cost to changing the scheme. Surely, Minister, that is why you made the decision to have a quick roll-out. Some may criticise that, but their MPs were happy to support it at Westminster. Your approach is the best option.”
“Minister, in your statement, you clearly commend the work of NIEA. However, is bringing in an independent agency not a duplication and does it not increase bureaucracy? Were you listening last night to the farmers' views of your environmental statistics so far?”
“Like most others, I welcome the statement. Our offices are extremely busy dealing with people who are struggling. In his statement, the Minister talked about making sure that support gets to the right people at the right time, and he referenced Christians Against Poverty. I take it from the comment in which he singled out that organisation that he puts value on the work that it has been doing in the past, prior to this funding becoming available, and that the fund will enhance the work that it has been doing across all of our communities.”
“I take it that the Minister supports that guide and has not taken any cognisance of others who may be offended by some of the new terminology. I am sure that colleagues to my left and right would much prefer to be addressed by their proper titles, as opposed to being addressed by some manufactured title that has been created by the Civil Service. Minister, do you support that document and its outworkings in the Civil Service?”
“Many people get the opportunity to overcome and heal from such events, but the Government have continued to make Mr Black suffer to this very day, because he has not got the answers. Until the ombudsman gives those answers, his healing cannot start. The day that he was here, there were also families: young people who had not been born who lost relatives and never got to meet them. The problem is passed down in generations, and, until we are able to help the whole family, no healing will take place. <BR /> <BR />I thank Members for taking part, and I am pleased to hear that we have universal support. I hope that the ombudsman's office is listening today, that it has a heart — I doubt it, but I hope that it does — and that it releases the report soon.”
“His living room and the space between his chair and his mantelpiece are not big. There is a picture on his mantelpiece of him and a cross. The cross is at Kingsmills. As someone said today, he gets up and thinks about those men every day. It is like a 48-year continuing attack on Mr Black. As the only survivor, he lives it every day. He sits in his chair, from where he can nearly reach his mantelpiece, and the picture sits there as a constant reminder to Mr Black. I think that it was his son who talked to him about taking the picture away. He said, "No. I owe it to those men" — his colleagues. That is the life that that man has lived. <BR /> <BR />Many people have been traumatised by the events in their life.”
“I think of all the atrocities in Northern Ireland through the years as I was growing up and of successive Secretaries of State, successive senior police officers and successive senior politicians going in front of the media to talk about what they would do to bring justice and find the perpetrators. I am not sure who was Secretary of State or who the senior policeman was 48 years ago, but I would love to meet them today and say, "Forty-eight years later, sir, where are the truth and justice for Mr Black, the McConvilles and all the other innocent victims in that van?". <BR /> <BR />Why is our current Secretary of State not pushing the ombudsman to release the report to give Mr Black, in the time that he has left — I hope it is long, but it could be short — the answers that he deserves? I recall sitting in his house that day.”
“Members, I tell you now that we gave him an assurance on behalf of our party from the four colleagues who met him at the inquest and the two of us who met him in his home that day that, if the report is not on the table before he passes, we will continue that fight for him. He deserves answers; the McConville family deserves answers; all the other people who are innocent victims of any other crime deserve answers; and we will continue to fight and get justice for them. <BR /> <BR />The ombudsman's report that has been referenced today was started in 2013. Reference has been made to 2020, and, indeed, Mr Black was told more recently — this year — that he would have the report. We got a lesson on our ages from Nuala today. I might be slightly older than Nuala, but I was a very young boy 48 years ago.”
“State agents were involved, state agents were protected, and our British Government and the Irish Government are guilty of both those things. <BR /> <BR />Joanne and I met Mr Black in his home a few weeks ago, with his solicitor. His solicitor recounted Mr Black's failing health — Mr Butler talked about Mr Black coming here a few weeks ago — and anybody could see that, as he stood in the Great Hall, at 81 years of age, on a rollator, on oxygen. Mr Black was not expected to survive his most recent time in hospital this year. He told his son and the rest of his family that he wants them to continue to fight.”
“It was horrid, as an outsider, to sit through that, hearing about the harrowing events and what those people went through that night. I came away from my second attendance at an inquest with a clear view that our Government know more than they have said. Maybe that is why the ombudsman is slow in coming forward. The protection, the missed opportunities, the witnesses who were not allowed to be interviewed because of Special Branch: all those things were read into the record that day. It was scary, to be honest. I came out of it that day and thought, "Déjà vu: I have heard this all before". It was about the protection and — I think it was Gerry Carroll who talked about it — state agents. That is 100% right.”
“The sooner that those people come to the table and give up the truth, instead of hiding behind some other code, the better. Linda went on to talk about historical investigations and how some of those are still outstanding. None of those investigations should be held back. All these people, regardless of where they are from, deserve truth and honesty. <BR /> <BR />I commend my party colleague for proposing the motion. Listening to the way in which Joanne relived the event today, you nearly felt as if you were standing there at the time. <BR /> <BR />In April this year, I attended an inquest for the second time. The first was many years ago, and I never thought I would find myself at another. I sat there for hours with my party colleagues Joanne Bunting, William Irwin and Jonathan Buckley. I would not wish it on anyone.”
“<BR /> <BR />Robbie Butler talked about the "dark days" and reminded us that this event was one of the worst of its time. That is so true. He talked about the failures of the Irish Government. Again, certainly, on these Benches, no one will disagree with those comments. It is clear to us who sat at the inquest that day that there were failings from the Irish Government. There were also failings from our Government. Those things need to be addressed. There are unanswered questions. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate Linda Dillon's comments about people being entitled to the truth. Everyone is entitled to the truth. Of course, I could say that people in the organisation that her party is connected to have held back on the truth.”
“He is also right that all the people who were murdered deserve justice. That is key for us. It is key for Mr Black. It is key for the McConville family. It is key for all innocent victims of violence. <BR /> <BR />Justin McNulty talked about the "bloodbath" at Kingsmills and about other crimes in south Armagh. None of those crimes was justified. Of course, we all agree with Mr McNulty's comments on that. It was the same theme from Members, time and time again. Nuala McAllister talked about the sectarian nature of the Kingsmills attack and, indeed, other attacks. We are not trying to distance ourselves from those: they were all wrong. She also talked about our dark past and how the victims, including Mr Black and his colleagues' families, require support. We can all agree with that.”
“I want to put the record straight on my party colleague's comments. Of course, I agree with Mr Gaston that all the murders, whether they were loyalist or republican murders, were equally wrong. Like him, I can say that those murders were wrong. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how others can say what they have said about that, and not so very long ago. I also agree with his comments about the actions of Mr McElduff. <BR /> <BR />It seems strange for me to stand here and agree with Gerry Carroll. It must be the start of a trend, because it is, I think, the second time today that our party has agreed with Mr Carroll or he has agreed with us. What he said about all sectarian murders being wrong is fair. Most of us in the Chamber would agree with that, and I appreciate his comments.”
“I thank all those who have participated in the debate. It is heartening to find that we have universal support for the motion. <BR /> <BR />I want to comment on and try to paraphrase what some Members have said. I will start with my colleague from North Antrim Mr Gaston. He criticised the wording of the motion. Of course, if Mr Gaston had been in his place, he would have heard my party colleague the Member for East Belfast Joanne Bunting being very clear in citing who the perpetrators were. She spent hours sitting through the inquest listening to who the perpetrators were — that was very clear from the inquest. My colleague has put on record today the actions of the IRA. The weapons that were traced back to the IRA and the other atrocities that they were used for were also cited at the inquest.”
“I hear what you say, Minister. Your first example about farmers not transferring their land in a timely manner is probably less of a case. <BR /> <BR />In your answer to the Mid Ulster representative, you mentioned 75%, which is higher than the estimate that Rachel Reeves gave at Westminster last week. Can your Department do more scoping out of the impact of the change? We, on this side of the Chamber, fear — I am sure that others fear the same — that it will decimate farming in Northern Ireland. It is not a case of paying inheritance tax — the change will decimate farms. There will not be farms in Northern Ireland. Is this another way to get rid of farmers?”
“Minister, you will accept, like many of us here, that the polluter pays. That is a good mantra to come out with. Of course, that does not seem to extend to NI Water when it infringes the regulations. Indeed, in your answer to Andy Allen, you cited that six of the cases involved NI Water. At what stage are your Department and the Government going to get serious when a government agency is causing the pollution?”
“I thank the Minister for that answer. Minister, I appreciate that you have a family-centred approach to the roll-out of the programme: how many families have benefited from it?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. I am sure that he will appreciate that, beyond all the ecological stuff, there are businesses that, in order to survive, need to access Lough Neagh, whether it be for sand dredging, fishing or even leisure on the Sixmilewater river. Will the Minister update the House on his Department's role in the assent for dredging, which expired earlier this year? What stage is your Department at with preventing DFI from carrying out dredging in those areas?”
“I think that we can all agree that some of those buildings are a scourge on our communities. Given the issues with identifying owners, is any consideration being given to the financial difficulties that those who own the buildings may face in trying to bring them back into use? Will you make any finance available to those individuals for bringing those buildings back into use?”
“To prescribe medication to keep them in a comatose state rather than working with them is a form of abuse. All of those things happened when, if my memory serves me correctly, Dr Milliken was the said doctor. <BR /> <BR />I can only hope, as the inquiry concludes, that others will give evidence to disprove the evidence given by Dr Milliken and other senior clinicians and that, whatever went on in that hospital, we come to a good conclusion, there is a just outcome for the patients who were mistreated and they and their families will get satisfaction.”
“We were told that the young lad had capacity. We then met the young lad, got his signature, made a further submission, and, again, we were denied. Let us just say that they were very obstructive, but eventually we got that information, which proved that that young fella was on medication that was keeping him in a state that the parents had witnessed, a state that was unnecessary and could only be described as a form of abuse. <BR /> <BR />To say that I was shocked last week, when I read the newspaper article on Dr Milliken's recollection, would be an understatement. Dr Milliken should have been very aware, because many of the patients under his care were abused. To keep persons dressed in inappropriate clothes is, in my book, a form of abuse.”
“When the family came to visit him, however, he was wearing clothes that would probably have suited someone about 5' tall. Quite often, the family would have been in contact to try to speak to their loved one in the hospital but were told that he was sleeping. On a number of occasions, we questioned the young fella's medication. With a lot of work, we contacted the hospital via his mother, who was his next of kin, but we were denied any information on the patient under Dr Milliken's care.”
“I want to talk about the ongoing inquiry into Muckamore Abbey Hospital, which many of us are aware of. Last week, I was shocked to read that the inquiry heard that a former consultant psychiatrist and clinical director at Muckamore Abbey Hospital was "absolutely horrified" by allegations of the abuse of patients. Dr Colin Milliken described his "shock, anger and despair" at the revelations, but he said that he had never been aware of poor treatment of some patients. <BR /> <BR />If my memory serves me correctly, I represented a constituent who is a resident of that establishment and was under that same doctor's care. That patient, whom I can only describe without his parents' permission, is about 6' 4" in height and was regularly brought new clothes by his family.”
“Given that they have set an exploratory date, I presume that you will welcome it with open arms. Do you know what work the council of the nations and regions will do, what format it will take, what interests it will have or what will be on the table for discussion?”
“First Minister, in your answers to other Members, you talked about the work that you and the deputy First Minister are doing and about looking at options. Have you any firm options on the table, about which you can tell the House? Indeed, will you ensure that all the options include considering the whole community?”
“It is an awful situation when the Chief Constable has to call for mutual aid from Scotland to help, as he did a few weeks ago, to give officers some time to recharge their batteries and get back out there. <BR /> <BR />One thing that we always forget when we see police officers under so much pressure is that they all have families at home who are worried when they are doing a normal job. However, when those people are working round the clock on long shifts, day after day, we are burning them out. The only way to address that is to get adequate funding. For those reasons and those reasons alone, I will never apologise for supporting the Chief Constable in his efforts to make sure that policing is adequately supported. I look forward to seeing who supports the motion today.”
“I can see you shaking your heads, but ours was the only party that said that. We wanted more than we got, and many of you said, "No, let us get back in there. We can fight from the inside, and we will get sustainable government from there". Clearly, that did not work, and I make no apology for reminding the Member of that. <BR /> <BR />The debate has been good hearted. The crux of the matter, and I have heard this across the Chamber, is that we will support the calls for the Chief Constable to get the support that he requires. The Member for Upper Bann Mr Beattie referred to the number of active police officers being as low as 4,500. Many of them are working under real pressures, with so many colleagues off sick or sustaining injuries on duty.”
“I make no apology for coming straight back at you. It was this party and this party alone that made the call to the British Government for additional funding. Many of you wanted to come back here much sooner with no additional resources.”
“It has also concentrated minds on whether he or others have missed an opportunity in how they have approached the issue. Now, at least, they have taken the opportunity.”
“He referred to his children and told us all about their interests. Maybe some of them should consider being a toolmaker because it seems to be the matter of the day in the Labour Party, and the Prime Minister reminds us of that quite frequently. <BR /> <BR />I was very disappointed by the Member for Upper Bann. He was nearly giving us all a lecture on how public finances work. We are all very aware of the public finances, but dire circumstances do not require dire responses. No one underestimates what your Minister has done to try to address the underfunding in policing, but, clearly, within the constrained finances that the Executive have, it has not worked. I thank the current Chief Constable for making that call because it has brought the debate on the matter to the place where it is today.”
“As you said earlier, those were private meetings, so I do not want to say too much. You are right about how the Policing Board has approached that, but maybe a letter about the business case would have been more prudent than rebuking the Chief Constable for his letter in which he took the opportunity to use his offices. Not only did he write to the Prime Minister, he publicly met the Prime Minister. <BR /> <BR />I commend my colleague from North Down for his maiden speech. I also thank his mother and father: I am very glad that they did not give him that other name as I could not pronounce it.”
“We have all been aware of these issues for 12 months, and it is interesting that it is only because it has got to this stage that we are now getting a plan together to try to address the funding issue. It is concerning that it has taken so long.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Member for North Belfast and my colleague on the Policing Board was defensive of the Minister and reminded us of our obligations. Of course, the letter reminded Mr Boutcher of his obligations, and that is what got us here. Sometimes, we need to be careful about language, about how we rebuke people and about how we explain things. We all have an appreciation of the difficulties of policing, but, sometimes, the language that we choose to use can cause difficulties. <BR /> <BR />Joanne Bunting, my colleague from East Belfast, talked about unsustainable cuts. No one disagrees with that, bar one Member in the corner, although the less said about that, the better. The Chief Constable's approach has been different, but he has been in position for almost 12 months now.”
“I accept that the Minister has made her calls at the Executive. I take that at face value and respect it. However, there are occasions when people know other people, and we should never waste that opportunity in trying to bring these things to a conclusion. <BR /> <BR />The Member for East Antrim Mr Dickson was, dare I say, very defensive of the Minister, as usual, and I will park that one there. He was followed by my other colleague from East Antrim, and she was the first to mention the importance and significance of today for the emergency services. Indeed, the Minister acknowledged that in her contribution as well. Sometimes, we forget the role that all the emergency services play and what they do in serving our communities.”
“Indeed, the conversation about numbers continued right up to New Decade, New Approach, but, of course, many people rushed back here without our being adequately funded directly after New Decade, New Approach. Whilst the two Governments of the time decided on the number of police that we should have, they, of course, did not adequately fund that. Many people were mad to get back here and saw ways of fixing that, but nothing has changed. <BR /> <BR />The Member for North Belfast followed, and he reminded us again of the numbers and the need to consider how we address that. He referred to how many of us saw the attempt from the Department to gag the Chief Constable. Referenced already today were the contacts that the Chief Constable has and how he will use them. I think that that is useful.”
“Today's debate, however, has been useful in enabling us to thrash that out and keep in people's minds the importance and necessity of having a properly funded police service. I appreciate what the Minister said about having tried to do that and not always getting the support, but, for us, it is about how it looks for the Department of Justice to rebuke the Chief Constable for sending the letter. <BR /> <BR />Mr Buchanan was followed by the Member for Foyle, who also understood the need for a fairer and more balanced budget. Again, no one would disagree with that. The Member for North Down Mr Chambers reminded us about Patten and the numbers that were envisaged back then.”
“Thank you very much, Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank everyone who took part in the debate today. I think that everyone's contributions — almost everyone's — have been well mannered and reasonable. I will give a summary of what some Members said, and I think that there has been a general theme. <BR /> <BR />My party colleague from Mid Ulster kicked off the debate. He talked about the concerns in policing and the necessity for a fair and equitable budget. No one, including the Minister, will disagree with that, but the thrust of the motion is about how we got here. When Jon Boutcher wrote the said letter, he probably did not realise that it would get as much attention as this.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Sometimes, there is a spat between the parties in the four-party Executive. This may be against protocol, and I would not want you to be rebuked for it, but maybe there is an opportunity for you, as the sister party of Labour, to raise the issue of finances separately.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The Member is the second member of her party to reference the "leaked letter". Is the Member not aware that the letter went to more people than the Chief Constable? Indeed, it went to the chair of the board, which means that it was shared with every independent and political member of the board. It is like one of those letters that went to Uncle Tom Cobley. There is nothing about a leaked letter, and it is wrong to put that into the public domain, given that the letter went to more people than the Chief Constable.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer and the Minister of Justice for making the bids for additional finances. Given that all the Executive parties made a commitment in 2020, when they signed up to the New Decade, New Approach agreement, to resource the police to an adequate level, at what stage are you, Minister, going to get serious about funding the PSNI sufficiently in order to allow the Justice Minister to bring policing numbers back up to where they should be?”