Ian McCrea
Mid Ulster · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I am not surprised by the Minister's answer, but, surely, given that he has announced that he will not take on the job of Justice Minister after the election — that is dependent on the electorate, of course, but nonetheless — surely he will have to accept that there have been questions that may not have come under his direct responsibilit…”
“Given that the Secretary of State has said that Northern Ireland farmers would no doubt benefit from being outside the European Union, I am not so sure that it is necessarily a bad thing.”
“I commend the First Minister for all the work she has done on corporation tax. When she goes to the United States, will she take the opportunity to invite businesses and people there to come to Northern Ireland so that they can see exactly the product we have here and, indeed, our people?”
“We have heard the deputy First Minister's words of condemnation — rightly, I believe — but will the deputy First Minister condemn outright those who took part in this disgraceful, murderous attack on people in my constituency?”
“With respect to the Committee and the work that it did, as I have said at other times, the Chair has gone through the detail of the how the Committee scrutinised this. Once again, I want to put on record the good work that was done and the good working relationship that the Committee and the Department had.”
“I thank the junior Minister for her intervention and the clarity around that. That is why I make no apology for supporting the investment fund and supporting the delivery of this large amount of money into areas across Northern Ireland. When that is delivered, it will provide a big difference for our communities.”
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“I am not surprised by the Minister's answer, but, surely, given that he has announced that he will not take on the job of Justice Minister after the election — that is dependent on the electorate, of course, but nonetheless — surely he will have to accept that there have been questions that may not have come under his direct responsibility that he could have answered in respect of policing matters or other aspects of justice instead of passing the buck. Surely he has to accept that there have been occasions when he has done that. Will he, at least, admit to that and maybe answer some that he has passed the buck on in the past?”
“Given that the Secretary of State has said that Northern Ireland farmers would no doubt benefit from being outside the European Union, I am not so sure that it is necessarily a bad thing. The Member who asked the question talked about European funding, so will the Minister give us some detail of the Peace IV programme and the areas it is targeted at?”
“I commend the First Minister for all the work she has done on corporation tax. When she goes to the United States, will she take the opportunity to invite businesses and people there to come to Northern Ireland so that they can see exactly the product we have here and, indeed, our people?”
“We have heard the deputy First Minister's words of condemnation — rightly, I believe — but will the deputy First Minister condemn outright those who took part in this disgraceful, murderous attack on people in my constituency? What steps will he take to ensure that, long after this event — 24 years ago on 17 January — those responsible are brought to justice?”
“It ill behoves any Member or, indeed, any party to sit in the House and speak against the Budget — some may even vote against the Budget — when they will go out and take the credit for the delivery of many things in it. The people will need to remember that when they look at the parties' manifestos or local literature coming through the door. If they are voting against the Budget, they are voting against the things in the Budget.”
“I thank the junior Minister for her intervention and the clarity around that. That is why I make no apology for supporting the investment fund and supporting the delivery of this large amount of money into areas across Northern Ireland. When that is delivered, it will provide a big difference for our communities. I for one will not apologise for it, and I for one will support the delivery of it and encourage all the people in the Departments, whether it is the Finance Minister, who has the money in the centre, or, indeed, the Ministers in OFMDFM or the agencies that deliver the projects, to do it as quickly as possible. <BR /> <BR />This Budget is a good Budget, and I encourage the Minister to respond in detail to Mr Attwood; I know that he is sitting there with bated breath awaiting those answers.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention; I could not have put it better myself. That is one of the problems that I have with Members who, in this place and in the public forum, consistently speak out against the social investment fund. I for one am a strong supporter of it. Yes, it would have been better to have had a lot more money spent, but I understand the difficulties around that. I see that the junior Minister has arrived in her place, and she will know as much as anyone how much I have questioned around ensuring that the £1·4 million that was allocated to the Mid Ulster constituency was paid out and that the projects were delivered.”
“I thank you for your guidance, Mr Deputy Speaker.”
“Well, he may refer to humility needed from me, but I am not so sure that we could not say the same for him. <BR /> <BR />I have said in this place that I do not believe that the money has been spent as well as it should have been, but I will not allow any Member, including him, to come into the House or indeed go into the public forum and condemn a fund that was set up to help local communities. Yes, it may have spent only a small amount of money, but, as has been said time and time again, there have been commitments, and I believe that they will be delivered on.”
“I will give way in a second. <BR /> <BR />I have raised this time and time again in this place. Maybe only a small amount of money has been spent, but a large amount has been allocated in the sense of having been committed to projects. I for one will not speak out against the £1·4 million allocated to my constituency.”
“Maybe that is where they have found money to pay for some of the things that they think should happen. <BR /> <BR />All in all, the process that we went through and the debates we had in respect of the Budget were generally productive. I have said it before, and I will say it again: I am disappointed that the Ulster Unionist Party has consistently attacked the social investment fund and the use of that money.”
“I am glad that, as a result of many months' work — the Minister, although in another post at the time, will know better than most how much time it took — the welfare reform matter was dealt with. <BR /> <BR />In respect of Mr Attwood, the millions of pounds that we lost in Northern Ireland as a result of welfare penalties certainly would not have helped us to get a balanced Budget if the agreements and what not had not been reached. I will give slight credit to Mr Attwood because, until now, when SDLP speakers have contributed to this debate, all we have heard is complaints about how bad the Budget is. Whilst he was true to form in that sense, at least he showed a glimmer of hope around the £13·2 million that he believes the Finance Minister will have at his disposal later in the financial year.”
“I recall when we were considering the welfare reform penalties, and, in a previous debate, the Member said that he welcomed those penalties and believed that we should be paying them, because the welfare reforms went too far.”
“With respect to the Committee and the work that it did, as I have said at other times, the Chair has gone through the detail of the how the Committee scrutinised this. Once again, I want to put on record the good work that was done and the good working relationship that the Committee and the Department had. I noticed that, when he came back in after he had left the Chamber, he had a bit of a smirk on his face. I think that that was more because he was able to miss most of Mr Attwood's speech, unlike the rest of us who sat through it. Whilst I had intended to deal with some of the matters that Mr Attwood raised, a lot of his questions were to the Minister so, on this occasion, I will leave it to the Minister to respond. <BR /> <BR />One aspect that Mr Attwood referred to was when he queried the issues around the balanced Budget.”
“If the information I have received is correct, which is that the prices have still not bottomed out, and given that the Minister and people in the industry have made a commitment to write to Europe, will she go to Europe — I appreciate that the weeks are running out in the time before the election — to put that plea to the European Commissioner to ensure that something is done before farmers who are currently struggling go out of business?”
“That is certainly welcome news, and it will no doubt be more than welcome news for the business fraternity. Whilst the Minister has said that that is the case, can he give a 100% assurance — it is maybe difficult to do that — that there will be no changes to industrial derating and that, as this party is a low-tax party, as I have said, that assurance will go forward into the new Assembly term?”
“<BR /> <BR />I do not want to repeat things, but I liked what Alban Maginness said in a previous debate about this being a local Bill with a local tailor-made solution for dealing with legal complaints in Northern Ireland. That is an important aspect of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />All in all, I have no doubt that, when the Bill is enacted, it will make a major difference to the way in which legal complaints are dealt with in Northern Ireland. I hope that it passes Final Stage.”
“Like the Chair, I will be brief, if not briefer than him, perhaps because I have less to say, given that it is his function, as Chair, to go through the details. I will resist doing that, but it is important to say that, in joining the Chair in his comments, I have no doubt that the scrutiny of the Bill — this has been the case, certainly as long as I have been in the Assembly — is evidence of the good relationship between the Department and the Committee and of the work to ensure that any concerns that the Committee and the stakeholders that came before it had were listened to and addressed by the Department. It is important that we put that on record to show how the Committee and the Department can work together to deliver good legislation.”
“The Secretary of State recently made a speech about the role of paramilitary groups during the Troubles. Does the First Minister agree with the sentiments expressed by the Secretary of State and that it is time that paramilitary organisations went out of business once and for all?”
“I welcome the opening of the new social farming support service in Cookstown and hope that what the Minister outlined, certainly for young people associated with the industry, actually happens. <BR /> <BR />Paragraph 4 of the Minister's statement refers to the discussion on the recent floods and the steps being taken in both jurisdictions. Will she outline whether the Executive have considered a compensation payment to businesses and farmers. If so, has the amount been agreed?”
“Nonetheless, it is a good news story for Northern Ireland. As APS to the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, I know full well the efforts that have been put into delivering corporation tax and the debates on trying to get a date and set the rate. Many are calling it a game-changer, but what we have in reality are the levers for Invest NI to travel across the world selling Northern Ireland as a place that is open for business. <BR /> <BR />Those who oppose the Budget will, no doubt, take credit for being part of an Executive that have delivered those financial levers. I, for one, make no apology for supporting the Budget. The Minister has done an excellent job in the short time that he has been in post to bring forward the Budget — as did his predecessor. This is a good Budget and something that the House should support.”
“I had the Chair of the Education Committee in my constituency recently to see some of the needs. I hope that more capital money is put into the education budget. <BR /> <BR />With corporation tax, it is great to see that the Chair of the Finance and Personnel Committee is now coming over to this way of thinking and referring to the fair deal. I said to one of my colleagues that he could change his name back to David and maybe join, but we will maybe not go that far.”
“I certainly will not take the negativity from Mr Nesbitt about the social investment fund, and I have no apology to make for ensuring that, when it was being discussed, I made representations to the First Minister. I am glad that the Executive have agreed to widen it. This is a good news story not just for my constituency but for the whole of Northern Ireland. Those who continually snipe from the sidelines should remember the impact that it will have on our communities. <BR /> <BR />The Department of Education's minor works project has been a good scheme to allow schools to benefit from minor capital works funding. In my constituency, a number of schools have benefited, so I hope that that funding will continue. Mind you, I have a list of schools that probably need new builds.”
“<BR /> <BR />Yesterday, the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party continued on his hobby horse of attacking the social investment fund. I was delighted that the Minister was able to outline that £58 million had been committed for social investment fund projects. A total of £1·4 million of that is in my constituency, and has been committed, and I have spoken to those who are working through the process and are trying, at this stage, to get contractors put in place. Anyone whom I have spoken to about this has said that this is a good news story and that they are certainly glad to see it coming.”
“That project is long overdue. Whilst there are some difficulties with land — and I know that work is ongoing in dealing with the landowners — it is, all in all, a long overdue project, and hopefully it will deal with the large volume of traffic that travels that way on a daily basis, especially in the morning. For many years, the residents who live along that road have had difficulties. Whilst other Members and colleagues of mine will demand that the rest of the road up to Dungiven is delivered, I think that the announcement made is very good and very welcome. That is on top of the around £35 million that was allocated previously for the Magherafelt bypass, the work on which is ongoing. These are certainly good news stories for my constituency.”
“I am saying that it is fair enough for the SDLP to believe and state that that is why it believes that this is a bad Budget. No one is even suggesting that not having a longer period to scrutinise Budgets is the best way forward. The reality is that we are debating the Budget today, and there is no point in a party, just because it wants to be seen to be opposing the Budget, whining that it has not had the opportunity to properly scrutinise it. It really is time for the SDLP to either put up or shut up on those matters. <BR /> <BR />I have a number of issues from a constituency perspective. Whilst I have mentioned some of them in previous debates, it is important to again put on record the £130 million that the Budget provides for the Minister for Regional Development to deliver the Randalstown to Castledawson dualling.”
“The reality is that it is still a party that is in the Government. It is time that it acts responsibly as a party in the Government or does the honourable thing. I will give way.”
“Given that we have had quite a few debates on the Budget, we will probably hear a lot of repetition of what people either like or dislike about it. Indeed, some will maybe take credit for things that they oppose in the Budget and, when writing their manifestos, they will try to take credit for them. Nonetheless, time will tell. <BR /> <BR />So far, we have heard from the SDLP, which has expressed nothing other than negativity about the Budget. We have heard that the party is against it because of the lack of scrutiny. That is fair enough. My colleague said that he is perplexed, and we are all perplexed, that, so far, we have not heard any real alternatives as to how the SDLP would do the Budget any better. All we hear are sound bites. I believe that it is time that the SDLP, which reminds us —”
“Is the Minister therefore content that everything is going according to schedule and that there will not be any slippages? I had a conversation with her regarding Gas to the West. Has the Department or the construction company had any contact with either DETI or the people involved with the Gas to the West project to ensure that the heating system is up to standard when gas passes that way?”
“This legislation will bring even more benefits than that strategy. For example, with empty shops, if there is some form of advertising on the windows and the owners receive the 50% rate relief, it will help. All in all, I commend the Minister for bringing the Bill through the House. He had little to do with it in its early stages, but he certainly had plenty to do with it as it went through. It is good legislation, and people will see the benefits as soon as it is introduced.”
“<BR /> <BR />The provisions on window displays and the 50% rate relief is a good news story that the Assembly will send out today. I think that Claire Hanna said in a previous debate that we should not want this type of measure and that we should be trying to ensure that our shops are filled and we do not need to provide this rate relief for empty shops. However, it is trying to show the business community, which has struggled over the last number of years, that the Assembly is listening and will do what it can, where possible, under the constraints that it has financially, to help that community. It is certainly something that will be welcomed across our town centres. <BR /> <BR />For a number of years, I was on Cookstown District Council, which successfully marketed our town with the "Cookstown, Looking Good, Looking Great" slogan.”
“I learned that pigeons are used as a means of dealing with gang culture in America. If that is the case, whilst we maybe do not have the gang culture that they have in some parts of America, who knows what this will do for the future of pigeon racing in Northern Ireland and the benefits that it will have in combating criminal gangs and whatnot? Maybe we will see them all going out of business. Maybe they should have introduced this some time ago and we would not have had the struggle in Northern Ireland over the last 40 years. Nonetheless, maybe we will see a pilot scheme happening at some stage soon in Northern Ireland. Hopefully, it will deal with the culture of crime and whatnot that we have. In respect of the community amateur sports side of things, it is to be welcomed.”
“In respect of the Bill and the work of the Committee, alongside that of the Minister and his officials, if nothing else, it has certainly been evidenced that, where people are of a similar mind, we can get business done and deliver something of benefit to our community. A lot of debate and discussion has happened around amateur sports clubs with the sector and officials and whatnot in the Committee. Whilst the Chair does not believe it to be a fair deal, when it is realised and put into practice, the benefits that the community amateur sports clubs will see as a result of the change in legislation will be welcomed. <BR /> <BR />Carrying on from the Member's final remarks, I think we got a lesson yesterday on pigeon racing; I learned things that I never knew.”
“Obviously, the £1·4 million investment from the social investment fund into my constituency is something that I welcome. I take it from the deputy First Minister's answer that he does not want to get into the, "He said, she said" aspect of those who were for and against it. Does the deputy First Minister believe that those who would oppose such a measure, or who intend or propose an alternative use for it, are, in essence, saying that they do not believe that these projects are good projects and that the Executive should re-prioritise their Budget?”
“<BR /> <BR />However, as the Minister outlined the last time we debated the Bill, his door is open for a conversation with Mr Swann. Mr Swann has flown off to America, which may be why we have not had the consultation. Who knows what might happen between now and the end? We are content to support the amendment from Mr McKay, but unfortunately we cannot support the amendment from the Ulster Unionist Party.”
“In that sense, it is a wee bit unfortunate that, in respect of the amendment from the Ulster Unionist Party, consultation has not really happened with the Minister. We had an issue with Mr McKay's amendment last week because consultation had not taken place. However, it now has, and we are therefore able to support it. Unfortunately, that consultation with the Minister has not happened with the Ulster Unionist amendment, and there are still some questions around pigeon racing. I have nothing against it; I have some such clubs in my constituency, although, as far I am aware, they do not have premises that would benefit from this rate relief. I am not saying that I do not sympathise with them, but we do not have enough information to be able to support the amendment from the Ulster Unionist Party.”
“My comments will be very short, as we have discussed and debated this a number of times over the last couple of weeks. The Member, to be fair, as I have said before and will say again, has been to the fore of trying to promote this issue. It was unfortunate that we had to go down the route of bringing it forward in the Minister's name and not his, but we are where we are. The Member brought forward his amendment last week, which, unfortunately, did not go through. We had a quick chat about it. In respect of my conversation with the Minister, the fact that the Member took up the offer to consult with the Minister and figure out a way forward on this gives a wee bit of assurance that, when these things happen, things can move forward.”
“The Minister's statement refers to the Peace IV programme that was adopted by the European Commission on 30 November 2015. Will he give us an update on the current position of the development of that programme?”
“I join with the previous Member in encouraging the Minister to deal with the skills gap to ensure that the devolution of corporation tax can be covered in that sense. He mentioned the Northern Ireland corporation tax regime; will he outline how much that work will cost, including any ongoing administrative costs?”
“Given that other countries across Europe ensure that, if a person is in that country and does not have the language of that country as their first language, they have to pay for the provision of an interpreter and, indeed, bring one with them, does the Minister have a view on whether that should be considered for Northern Ireland? Should people who require an interpreter pay to provide one?”
“Thank you, and I thank the Minister for his update. If the Minister gets the necessary approvals from the Health Minister, will he outline a timeline for this process? Whilst I am not asking him to look into a crystal ball, can he foresee any possible difficulties?”
“I understand the Member's desire to have the matter dealt with. However, given the concerns that the hospitality sector raised with us during the short time that we had to scrutinise the Bill, it should be left as it is, therefore we will be opposing the amendment.”
“In a sense, it is their right to do that, but it is right that they pay rates for the part of their premises that has a bar. That is the sole reason why we will oppose the amendment. <BR /> <BR />Whilst the majority of the Bill deals with the very issue the Member is talking about, namely, allowing clubs to reinvest in their facilities, teams and whatever else they do, a bar area brings in money that a club can reinvest. I have not bought into the argument that we need to accept the Member's amendment. He is passionate about the issue. However, it is not the right thing to do. We are going down the right route with 100% rate relief for those without a bar and 80% for those with one. Those with a bar do not lose anything as they already receive 80% rate relief. <BR /> <BR />The best way to take the Bill forward is to leave it as is.”
“What we thought was going to happen with the amendment has happened. I thought that we had got past this part of the debate, but we seem to be getting a touch of revisionism and trying to go back over old ground. <BR /> <BR />As the proposer of the amendment said, a long debate on this is not necessary. However, it is important that we look at the amendment. Its proposer wishes to give 100% rate relief to all community amateur sports clubs, whether they have a bar or not. He has not taken into consideration the arguments that the hospitality sector brought before the Committee, including their concern that some larger clubs host events that could be held in local hotels. The fact that clubs are able to do that means that money is taken away from hoteliers.”
“Without wanting to be repetitive, the Minister said that there are difficulties and challenges ahead. Anyone who knows anything of the fishing industry knows that, as the previous Member said, it has faced nothing but challenges and difficulties, given the regulations that Europe has very vociferously handed down. Will the Minister not at least concede that, whether or not she trusts the Tories and believes that they will give any subsidies to the fishing industry, there would be benefits from not having regulations coming from Europe and, in that sense, a Brexit might not be a bad thing?”
“I cannot disagree with you; it is an incredible figure. Again, if we look at the voluntary exit scheme, we see that £183 million was borrowed against it, but £160 million has been saved, and that will continue year-on-year. Is that a bad thing? I do not believe that it is. <BR /> <BR />Whilst I do not expect that we will get support from the whole way around the Chamber — it seems that that will be the case — I hope that we will consider Mr Nesbitt's getting it wrong in respect of the Budget: there was no additional borrowing in the Fresh Start Agreement that was not already built into the Stormont House Agreement. Again, maybe he will apologise for that like he apologised for the singing of our national anthem.”
“I thank the Member for that information. However, anyone who believes that borrowing is a bad thing either is a fool or is kidding themselves. Borrowing is not a bad thing as long as you service the debt. It is important that people service the debt, and that is every bit the same for people in their home as it is for the Executive. It is shameful —”
“I do not have the figures in front of me. I am happy to give way to the Member if he wants to give us that information.”
“I see that Mr Nesbitt is in his place. It would be wrong of me not to mention how wrong he was in making a sweeping statement prior to the Fresh Start Agreement in which he said that the deal would include half a billion pounds of borrowing and would "mortgage our children's future". Unless I have missed something, mortgages are not a bad thing.”
“It has been long enough on the books to have been built twice or three times. How and ever, it is good that the Executive have committed to ensuring that something will be built on this site, and I look forward to see that happening, as no doubt will the others who represent that constituency. <BR /> <BR />It is unfortunate that there are Members who are making very little of these flagship projects, and I am truly surprised by that when I look at some of the other projects that are on the list. It includes the mother and children's hospital, Belfast rapid transport and the Belfast transport hub. Millions and millions of pounds have been allocated to deliver these projects, but that seems to be worthless, and no thinking has gone into this whatsoever.”