William Humphrey
North Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I listened intently to all the contributions in the debate, and I have to say that there was a fair degree of hypocrisy in some of the things that I listened to.”
“On this Commonwealth Day, I commend the Minister, in her absence, for her programme. Earlier today, we planted a tree to mark Her Majesty's platinum jubilee close to Lord Craigavon's tomb. Are there plans for the jubilee celebrations across our education sector to be extended to uniformed organisations?”
“I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I thank her for her candour to the House today in setting out clearly and very explicitly the dangers that this bad, and badly drafted, Bill will have for education in Northern Ireland and the ramifications for our young people.”
“Thank you very much. Only last night, I had a conversation with the chair of a board of governors. I have also met school teachers and principals. Quite frankly, I am rather perturbed by what the Member is saying.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. He and other Members have made the point that the Bill will lead to discrimination. Does the Member agree that there is no such thing as positive discrimination?”
“The Member makes a very valid point. Earlier today, we debated the Climate Change (No. 2) Bill. A number of people who opposed the Minister's Bill made the point that it took so long — over two years — to get to today, yet they want to rush this Bill through. The same parties that made those points have accepted that this Bill is flawed.”
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“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I listened intently to all the contributions in the debate, and I have to say that there was a fair degree of hypocrisy in some of the things that I listened to. I will not get involved in the comments about the civil servant and whatever, but Members across the Chamber from us on these Benches have complained about Members calling people names, yet Mr Wells and Mr Allister were called Statler and Waldorf, and another Member referred to them as muppets. Ironically, that Member has raised a point of order. I think that that inconsistency is exposed to the House.”
“On this Commonwealth Day, I commend the Minister, in her absence, for her programme. Earlier today, we planted a tree to mark Her Majesty's platinum jubilee close to Lord Craigavon's tomb. Are there plans for the jubilee celebrations across our education sector to be extended to uniformed organisations?”
“I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I thank her for her candour to the House today in setting out clearly and very explicitly the dangers that this bad, and badly drafted, Bill will have for education in Northern Ireland and the ramifications for our young people. I hope that Members have listened, because they will have to defend their position when people challenge them on it, as they undoubtedly will. The Minister has made a compelling case for Members to go through that Lobby and vote against the Bill. She has also made a very compelling case to me, to those of us sitting on these Benches and to the former leader of the Ulster Unionist Party as to why his party should be in a position — indeed, every party in this House should be in a position — to sign a petition of concern, and there is no shame in doing so.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. He and other Members have made the point that the Bill will lead to discrimination. Does the Member agree that there is no such thing as positive discrimination? If Members vote for this, clearly we will have learned nothing from the mess and shambles that unfolded from so-called positive discrimination in policing.”
“They have all said that this Bill is flawed and that there are aspects with which they cannot live and that need to be changed, but they want to rush it through.”
“The Member makes a very valid point. Earlier today, we debated the Climate Change (No. 2) Bill. A number of people who opposed the Minister's Bill made the point that it took so long — over two years — to get to today, yet they want to rush this Bill through. The same parties that made those points have accepted that this Bill is flawed.”
“Thank you very much. Only last night, I had a conversation with the chair of a board of governors. I have also met school teachers and principals. Quite frankly, I am rather perturbed by what the Member is saying. Is he seriously suggesting to the House that those school principals, teachers, governors, chairs of boards of governors and many parents who have concerns and who have written to me cannot follow the passage of the Bill through the House and are not up to speed? Is that what he is saying?”
“It is interesting that the Member for South Belfast raised that point, because it is a salient issue that is being discussed in Belfast City Council. Street preachers and evangelists in the city centre, particularly in Cornmarket, are being harassed by people who are opposed to their religious views. Indeed, an old gentleman who had been giving out literature in St George's Market for years was refused the right to do that. I took up his case, and that decision was reversed. Those are the sorts of religious freedoms that this country should want to see in its capital city. That was an appalling remark from the Member for South Belfast.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. She makes an important point. Not only has the Chief Constable recently talked about budget pressures and the effects that those will have on his resources but we have not had the number of police that were promised to be delivered under NDNA. When you talk to the police, as I do as a Belfast representative, they will tell you that they are already hugely overstretched in policing the city centre, where there are huge problems with drugs and solvent abuse and so on.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. I accept entirely that you cannot ask all 6,000 people to come to the Committee. However, the clergy and laypeople represent thousands of people in Northern Ireland, so why did the Committee think that it was not a good idea to hear from them?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement to the House. Are households that are on contribution-based employment and support allowance (ESA) included in the scheme?”
“I also thank the Boys' Model School for allowing us to host the launch of the report there.”
“All Departments should step up to that. We will push that to the head of the Civil Service when she returns to the Committee in the near future.”
“As Members will know, that is close to all our hearts. It was a follow-up to the 'A Fair Start' report. That was produced after Peter Weir, when he was Education Minister, instigated work on closing the gap in educational attainment in working-class areas. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to Dr Noel Purdy and his team: Jackie Redpath, Mary Montgomery, Joyce Logue and Kathleen O'Hare. They did a fantastic job, and our Committee, in its report 'Closing the Gap', wants to build on that. We want to see government across Northern Ireland and across the Executive providing the resource to deliver for those young people. It is hugely important. There are files — cases of files — on this issue in Northern Ireland over the years. Sadly, there has never been a resolution. We need to see the gap being closed and government investing in our young people.”
“The Committee found that the Driver and Vehicle Agency (DVA) had not correctly projected the lifespan of crucial equipment and that the scissor lifts, which were used to enable inspection of the underside of vehicles, did not have a phased programme for replacement. That led to a significant disruption of services that affected many homes in Northern Ireland as the lifts failed. Moreover, DVA used equipment that far exceeded the usual lifespan. It was a high-risk strategy that did not put health and safety first and placed workforce lives at risk. <BR /> <BR />As I am running out of time, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will now make a few points as a DUP member of the Committee. I draw attention to a report that we have just concluded, although we were unable to have the MOR for today: 'Closing the Gap'.”
“Improving capacity and capability across the board is of huge strategic importance and will have a direct bearing on many of the issues that the Committee explores in specific areas of government. In the Committee's view, more needs to be done to strengthen the powers and role of the head of the Civil Service. Sadly, that was not taken up. We want the head of the Civil Service in Northern Ireland to have a role and powers that are similar to those of her opposite number in Scotland. <BR /> <BR />I move on to the report on the 'Driver and Vehicle Agency 2019-20', which follows two reviews commissioned by the Minister for Infrastructure. One was carried out by independent engineers; the other by the Northern Ireland Civil Service's internal audit and fraud investigation service.”
“The PAC identified the gap between where the NICS is and where it needs to be. It requires radical transformation. The Committee recommended that the head of the Northern Ireland Civil Service be pivotal in driving fundamental transformation. Strong and decisive leadership from the top needs to drive the change, and it must include total commitment throughout the Senior Civil Service. Other recommendations included the fundamental revision of recruitment and selection, injecting independent, non-executive representation into the Northern Ireland Civil Service Board and delivering a Northern Ireland Civil Service that is wider in its representation of our workforce in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />The Department accepted the vast bulk of the report's recommendations.”
“The PAC made 12 recommendations that it believes must be acted on in order to ensure that the Northern Ireland Civil Service, which employs some 22,000 staff, is fit to deliver the necessary public services to the people of Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />As a Committee, we were deeply appreciative of the exceptional work done by many civil servants across all Departments, particularly in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. At the same time, however, we were utterly shocked by the failure to ensure that the right number of people with the required skills, knowledge and expertise were in post.”
“<BR /> <BR />Although there is much to do to increase confidence in SEN provision, the Committee cannot and will not overlook the excellent work of those — indeed, we congratulate them — who deliver SEN services to children on a daily basis. The dedication of front-line staff is exemplary, and we applaud the fact that the educational attainment gap between children with and without SEN is closing. We recognise that commitment as steps are taken to embed reform; it is invaluable and deeply appreciated. <BR /> <BR />I will move on to the report on 'Capacity and Capability in the Northern Ireland Civil Service'. The report concentrated its investigation on the fundamental issues in the Northern Ireland Civil Service workforce: succession planning, recruitment and performance management.”
“In the absence of such data, it was impossible to gauge the real demand for services and to identify the gaps in provision. <BR /> <BR />The PAC made seven recommendations, including on the need for independent reviews of the effectiveness of Education Authority and SEN processes. All the recommendations were accepted by the Department and should be taken forward to address dysfunctionality in the authority and to ensure that SEN processes are fit for purpose. That would help to build the confidence of the public and of families who rely on SEN provision for their children. As part of the external review, we would like to see an evaluation of all the types of SEN support that are provided. That should include benchmarking and data collection to demonstrate the progress that children make.”
“was conducted in order to ensure that the "best possible outcomes" were delivered. The Department spent over £3·6 billion on reviewing its practices in more than 13 years, with the Audit Office noting that unacceptable issues persisted. <BR /> <BR />We were disappointed to find a culture in the Education Authority that allowed it to deliver a substandard service continually for far too long. That is particularly clear in the operation of the statutory assessment process for SEN. The weaknesses failed families and, in particular, our children with special educational needs. That is intolerable and plainly wrong. <BR /> <BR />The Education Authority did not know how many children were seeking to access SEN support or why SEN was more prevalent in Northern Ireland than in any other jurisdiction in the UK.”
“<BR /> <BR />The next of our reports on which I will focus is on special educational needs (SEN). No inquiry that the Committee conducted in the past two years was more important than that one on investing in our young people. The report examines the way in which the Department of Education and the Education Authority (EA) support children with special educational needs, including those in mainstream schools. It looked at the period from 2015 to 2020, during which the Department and the authority spent more than £1·3 billion on supporting children with special educational needs, with costs rising each year. <BR /> <BR />An Audit Office report reviewed SEN practices in 2017. A follow-up in September 2020 found that none of the recommendations in 2017 had been fully implemented. The 2017 report noted:”
“The PAC is still concerned, however, that all Executive Department contracts must provide value for money for the consumer and the public purse. It is vital that Departments take immediate steps to guarantee that contracts are managed effectively, including by ensuring that staff have appropriate contract management and commercial skills and awareness. All projects must employ the necessary skills and experience to ensure that projects have staff continuity — staff were continually moved, resulting in loss of knowledge and experience — and, where that is not possible, training and access to new knowledge and transfer of skills should compensate for it. If local people are to have confidence that public moneys are being allocated and spent with consideration for value for money, the recommendations in the report must be implemented.”
“The PAC made 11 recommendations in the report, and the Finance Minister accepted them all in full or in part. They included the need for a "deep culture audit" of contract management and related skills, robust monitoring of contract management and continuity and training of staff on the projects.”
“In the case of nidirect, the Department misunderstood the terms of the contract and was forced to extend it for three years as a result of failing to put alternative delivery mechanisms in place. <BR /> <BR />A new tender for LandWeb will not come into force until later this year, meaning that the contract will have been in place for 25 years, eight years beyond the original time frame. The result of the contract extensions means that the Executive have had to increase their payment to BT by over £120 million. The overall costs incurred are more than double the original contracted values.”
“<BR /> <BR />Our report on digital transformation and the LandWeb project focused on a project designed to deliver a digital transformation to the Northern Ireland Civil Service, as well as LandWeb, which was a project to provide online access to Northern Ireland's Land Registry, Registry of Deeds and Statutory Charges Register. The Committee examined the two projects, both awarded to British Telecom (BT), to look at the way that each project was awarded and managed and at whether they provided value for money. The Committee took evidence from the permanent secretary and other officials in the Department of Finance, and, frankly, we were shocked at the inadequate negotiation and management of those two contracts. One thing that really stood out was the number of times that the contracts were rolled over to the benefit of BT.”
“Central overview is critical to improving project delivery. The Committee's report strongly recommends that Northern Ireland should have the same kind of oversight body that other jurisdictions have. The Department accepted in principle a further recommendation for independent non-executive members with a commercial background to be added to the Northern Ireland Civil Service (NICS) board. In all, the PAC made 15 recommendations in the report, many of which have been accepted in full or in part by the Department. The recommendations will drive a large part of the reform agenda in that area.”
“In short, not only was the system for commissioning and delivering major capital projects overcomplicated but it was clear that many of the senior staff did not have the relevant experience or expertise to allow them to deliver the projects within the agreed timescales and budgets. <BR /> <BR />One of the major recommendations coming out of the report was for senior staff to have the correct skill sets and experience to deliver major capital projects. We are pleased that that recommendation has been accepted by the Department. The Department has also accepted the recommendation for action to strengthen accountability and transparency for major projects. The Committee was disturbed to find that there was no single oversight body whose function is to ensure that projects are being delivered properly.”
“<BR /> <BR />Each of the major capital projects suffered from time delays and cost overruns against the total timescales and budgets to a total value of £700 million. The Committee was shocked by the delays and cost overruns, including those associated with securing planning permission and the scale of judicial reviews. The Committee notes the importance of genuine concerns being addressed by judicial reviews but wondered whether a new balance could be struck to avoid vexatious challenges. The Committee notes that the £700 million of cost overruns could have been better invested in our schools, hospitals, roads and, of course, transport network.”
“The work of our successor Committee in the new mandate will continue to be crucial to promoting accountability, transparency and commitment to good governance in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I will start with the 'Major Capital Projects' report. The focus is on the 11 high-profile, high-value infrastructure projects, including the A5, the A6, Casement Park, as part of the regional stadia programme, and the subregional stadia programme for football. Over an eight-year period from 1 April 2011 to 31 March 2019, almost £10·6 billion was spent on infrastructure projects. It was estimated that, by the end of March 2021, more than £14·8 billion would have been spent on those projects.”
“I also take this opportunity to thank the Deputy Chair, Mr Beggs, and my other colleagues on the Committee. I do not think that we had a single vote in the past two years and more, so thank you very much to my colleagues. <BR /> <BR />In total, the PAC will have completed 14 reports by the end of the mandate. Seven of the reports being debated today have been published with memorandums of reply (MORs). That allows me to provide the House with a more complete sense of the response made to the Committee's recommendations in those areas. At the end of my speech, I will summarise the issues that have been cross-cutting across all the reports, identifying the thematic issues and monitoring the progress within and across the Departments to improve the functioning of government, which will be critical in the longer term.”
“<BR /> <BR />Before I open the discussion, it is important that I give thanks, on behalf of the Committee, to the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr Kieran Donnelly CB, and his team at the Northern Ireland Audit Office (NIAO). The support that they have provided to the Committee has been invaluable. I also thank those who provided evidence to the Committee to inform our work. That is crucial to the Committee's effective carrying out of its functions.”
“As Chair of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), I welcome the opportunity to provide the House with an overview in this take-note debate of the PAC's seven published reports so far. In doing so, I will provide the House with an overview of the important issues that the Committee has grappled with in a variety of different areas of government and pull together some of the key themes emerging from our work. That will be important to Members and our successor Committee in the new mandate. The Committee has sought to complete as much work as is possible to identify the areas to be taken forward in the next mandate. I emphasise the constructive contribution that the Committee has sought to make to the review and reform of public services and to the delivery of value for money and principles throughout government here in Northern Ireland.”
“I fully endorse the 'A Fair Start' report, which was launched by my colleague Peter Weir and delivered under this Minister. The Minister may be aware that the 'Closing the Gap' report was launched recently at Belfast Boys' Model School, and Dr Purdy and his team attended the launch. I made it clear at that launch — I say it to the House again and made the point to the Finance Minister yesterday as well — that 'Closing the Gap' and 'A Fair Start' can be implemented in their fullest way and bring the maximum benefit only if they get resource and funding from across government. Would the Minister agree?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. On the point of education, I listened to Mr Lyttle's contribution. In relation to the 'Report on "Closing the Gap"' that the Public Accounts Committee produced and that he will know, will the Minister agree and assure the House that, whilst it is the responsibility primarily of the Education Department, that report clearly sets out, as does the Northern Ireland Audit Office report, that the goals and targets of 'A Fair Start', produced by Dr Purdy and his team, can be met only if there is a joined-up approach across government in terms of finance and resource?”
“My deepest sympathy and heartfelt condolences go to his mummy, Karen; his stepfather, Eric; his siblings Angela, Erica and Glen; the love of his life and his rock, Laura; and their beautiful children Trinity, Oliver, Cameron and Abigail. <BR /> <BR />A bright light has gone from this place, and our world is the poorer for Christopher's passing. May the grace of God give the Stalford family and those privileged to be Christopher's friends the strength and courage to face the days ahead. God bless, and goodbye, my friend.”
“I spoke with Christopher at 11.30 on Friday night, and I was in touch with him again early on Saturday afternoon. Yesterday, I received the awful news that, to be honest, I am struggling to come to terms with, as we all are. It is a loss from which I will never recover. I have lost a friend. He was like a wee brother to me, and we on these Benches have lost a very valued and able colleague. We are mindful this day of the frailty of life. Unionism has lost a great advocate, South Belfast has lost an exceptional representative, and Northern Ireland has lost a proud and visionary son. <BR /> <BR />Of course, our loss is nothing to the loss of his dear family. Yesterday, my colleague from Strangford Michelle McIlveen and I visited his family. They are distraught and devastated — shocked at a life taken too soon.”
“<BR /> <BR />He loved history, reading, satire, classical music and, of course, tweed jackets. He also enjoyed the occasional wee glass of wine and whisky. More recently, he began to enjoy his garden with his children, whom he loved dearly. He was a character; he was unique; he was great craic. He was not always the conservative and formally dressed parliamentarian that we saw in the corridors and in the Chamber, in which he excelled so very well. "Tory boy" had a great sense of humour. I remember on a boys' trip to Tenerife that we went to a karaoke club. He said to me, "I'm going to do a wee Frank Sinatra turn", and I said, "Seriously — you?". He got up, and he did Frank Sinatra, and he did Frank Sinatra every night that week at the karaoke club.”
“I thank those colleagues from across the political divide who contacted me yesterday and this morning. I also thank the SDLP for postponing its conference. Those of us on these Benches deeply appreciated that gesture, and I sent a message to the deputy leader of the SDLP yesterday to thank her. <BR /> <BR />Christopher loved the thrust of debate and was a natural performer and parliamentarian. When he was elected to the House in 2016, he rang me the night before and said, "Can we sign in together?". The pinnacle of his career — something of which he was hugely proud — was his election as Principal Deputy Speaker of the House. He loved his native South Belfast and its people. It was the community from whence he came, and he was immensely proud to represent it here at Stormont.”
“Christopher came to me and asked me not to do that, because he was going to be our candidate for deputy lord mayor. He then asked me to propose him at the AGM, and I was privileged to do just that. <BR /> <BR />"Lord Stalford" and I remained good friends throughout our past two decades, even though we were regularly the butt of each other's jokes and comments. Only last Monday morning in our group room, he was my sparring partner. Christopher was highly intelligent and extremely funny. He had a sharp wit and an infectious laugh.”
“With our party phasing out double-jobbing in the spring of 2013, I indicated that I was going to resign my seat and leave City Hall.”
“He was a man of faith and, growing up, was a member of Ballymacarrett Presbyterian Church, and I know that he set a great deal of store by that and that a great influence on his life was the late Reverend Victor Ryan, who passed away in recent weeks. <BR /> <BR />Christopher lost his father at the age of seven, and that clearly left a mark on young Christopher. He came from a loving family, and I pay tribute to his mother, Karen, for the way she reared her children. <BR /> <BR />Christopher, Ian Crozier and I formed a strong bond and relationship at City Hall, often chewing the cud until the wee hours. Christopher called us the "Three Amigos". When he was appointed high sheriff in 2010, I was privileged to speak at his installation.”
“This is the speech that I absolutely did not want to make. <BR /> <BR />Christopher Stalford was born in 1983, a proud, working-class lad from south Belfast. He attended Wellington College and was immensely proud of that. He was a political activist from a very young age — I suspect probably since he was in a pram. He was a committed unionist and was DUP through and through; in fact, he told me, "If you cut me in half, it would say 'DUP'". We were elected at the same time in the same intake in the Belfast City Council local government elections in 2005. He loved debating, and, even more, he loved winning debates.”
“I take the opportunity to commend Mark McBride and his team at youth services in North Belfast. <BR /> <BR />Special educational needs is a hugely important issue. The Minister knows that the Public Accounts Committee unanimously agreed to hold an inquiry into the issue. Can the Minister provide details of the statutory and voluntary sector funding provided to groups across the four Belfast constituencies?”
“We all know that, as governors of schools — I declare an interest as a governor of two schools and a former member of the Committee. You will be aware of those pressures, and you will add to them.”
“I thought that I had heard you say that. <BR /> <BR />Legal advice is subjective. You and the House should consider that you are almost throwing out an opportunity to look at other wording. If you are not comfortable with "may" but are happy to look at other wording, now is the time to accept that there are concerns, probably across the House, on the wording. Your consideration of legal opinion will be different from that of others, and a different legal opinion will come from another solicitor or barrister. You need to be mindful of that, of the implication and compulsion that "must" will have for the Department, as was said by my colleague from Upper Bann, and of the huge financial pressures that the Department is already under.”
“I return to the point that Mr Stalford made. To be fair, you have made reference on a number of occasions to the must/may issue. "Must" is compelling. I think that I heard you right in saying that the legal advice that the Committee received —”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Earlier in her contribution she talked about the legal advice that was given to the Committee, and she asked who was she to go against it. Does she agree with me that that is how the said solicitor will interpret the law? Again, it is a matter of interpretation. <BR /> <BR />Also, when she responded to an intervention earlier, she was going to expand more on diversity. I ask the Member to expand on what she means by "diversity" and address the issue that some of us have concerns about: the lack of diversity that has been mentioned so far in the Bill.”
“As a former member of the Committee, I am sure that the statement cannot have come as a surprise to the House. It is clear that the GTCNI is dysfunctional, deeply divided and not capable of giving leadership. The Minister said in her statement that Baker Tilly Mooney Moore carried out a board-effectiveness survey and that the feedback on working relationships in the council was the "worst" that it had ever surveyed. Is the Minister in a position to share further information about the survey with the House?”
“I thank the Minister for that detailed answer. Given that he has mentioned impact on a number of occasions, what would be the impact and ramifications for businesses and Northern Ireland plc from what he has just set out?”