Robin Swann
North Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his detailed statement. I know how passionate he is about the subject and how many times he has brought it to the Executive.”
“It has been reported that today will potentially be the warmest day of the year. As we move into the summer and our summer holidays, I want to raise public awareness of wildfires across Northern Ireland, which have been detrimental to farmland and our environment over the past number of years.”
“Wildfires are still having a detrimental impact on our environment and, occasionally, on livestock, but that reduction shows the impact of the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service's proactive approach to educating the general public and engaging with rural communities and schools on its fire safety message, which is to stay alert, not…”
“There has been a lot of talk of sport in this place over the past few days, with everybody concentrating on UEFA. One sport that is going on across Northern Ireland at the minute is cross-community and goes across all age groups without fear, favour or distinction: pigeon racing.”
“I want to put on record that, since this place passed the amendment that recognised pigeon racing as a sport under the 2016 Act, over the past five years, pigeon racing clubs across Northern Ireland have been able to obtain £113,000 of rates rebates through the sports and recreation rate relief, allowing many of those clubs to continue ra…”
“There was much coverage on social media over the weekend of an incident in Staines in England, in which a police car rammed a young calf to bring it under control. It has restarted the conversation about animal cruelty. <BR /> <BR />I am dealing with a specific case in my constituency.”
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“I thank the Minister for his detailed statement. I know how passionate he is about the subject and how many times he has brought it to the Executive. <BR /> <BR />With regard to fines and penalties, the Supreme Court has just ruled that water companies can be sued for nuisance and trespass for dumping sewage, even if there has been no negligence or deliberate misconduct by the company. Will the Minister study that ruling by the Supreme Court and see how applicable it is to Northern Ireland, especially with regard to Northern Ireland Water and the Department of Infrastructure?”
“Wildfires are still having a detrimental impact on our environment and, occasionally, on livestock, but that reduction shows the impact of the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service's proactive approach to educating the general public and engaging with rural communities and schools on its fire safety message, which is to stay alert, not to use open fires and not to be careless with materials, such as barbecues or any other open flame, that generate fire. To those who enjoy the Northern Ireland countryside, especially in the summer, I put on record this message: be fire-aware and fire-safe and support the work of the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service.”
“It has been reported that today will potentially be the warmest day of the year. As we move into the summer and our summer holidays, I want to raise public awareness of wildfires across Northern Ireland, which have been detrimental to farmland and our environment over the past number of years. I commend the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service for its work on not just tackling those fires but promoting the "Stay safe" message to people who use the countryside for recreation and work. <BR /> <BR />To put things in context, in 2020-21, there were 1,948 wildfires reported and tackled in Northern Ireland. That figure came down dramatically in 2023-24 to 925, which is a reduction of almost 50%.”
“I want to put on record that, since this place passed the amendment that recognised pigeon racing as a sport under the 2016 Act, over the past five years, pigeon racing clubs across Northern Ireland have been able to obtain £113,000 of rates rebates through the sports and recreation rate relief, allowing many of those clubs to continue racing and operating. They get no support from any other Department or from most councils. I express my thanks and, I think, those of the Chamber, to the volunteers across Northern Ireland who keep the pigeon clubs going on a daily and weekly basis.”
“There has been a lot of talk of sport in this place over the past few days, with everybody concentrating on UEFA. One sport that is going on across Northern Ireland at the minute is cross-community and goes across all age groups without fear, favour or distinction: pigeon racing. It is not often spoken about in the Chamber, nor are the benefits that it brings to the individuals who are involved, from the mental health aspect to the social aspect and the sense of camaraderie that is brought about by pigeon clubs and pigeon racers who, as I said, are of all ages and from all communities. Back in 2016, as some Members will remember, it was good to see this place recognising pigeon racing as a sport under the Rates (Amendment) Act (Northern Ireland) 2016. That has not been done in other jurisdictions, but it brought a benefit to those clubs.”
“Does the Member agree that the Department and the Minister should take that into consideration? The situation is putting off new, younger farmers from entering the industry, because they see the structure that they are about to step into. Having been to our agricultural colleges, where the younger farmers train in the best facilities, they then come home and are held back by the same Department from being able to progress into the updated facilities that they learned about and trained in.”
“I ask that our Minister for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs proactively engage, rather than wait for proof to be provided to him that having a register has succeeded elsewhere. I ask him to be a leader in challenging animal cruelty.”
“The establishment of one was called for and supported by councils across Northern Ireland: Belfast City Council; Armagh City, Banbridge and Craigavon Borough Council; Ards and North Down Borough Council; Newry, Mourne and Down District Council; Mid Ulster District Council; Fermanagh and Omagh District Council; and Derry City and Strabane District Council. All supported having an animal cruelty register and asked the Department to establish one. <BR /> <BR />I got back this answer from the Minister:”
“It seems that, for some, animal welfare is an issue only for social media and not for physical delivery. <BR /> <BR />Over the past five years, there have been only 18 convictions under the Welfare of Animals Act (Northern Ireland) 2011, despite 240 cases having been commenced. That represents a 7·5% rate of success from the point at which those cases were commenced to the point of being delivered. It poses the question of why the Department and the Minister will not revisit calls to establish an animal cruelty register across these islands.”
“There was much coverage on social media over the weekend of an incident in Staines in England, in which a police car rammed a young calf to bring it under control. It has restarted the conversation about animal cruelty. <BR /> <BR />I am dealing with a specific case in my constituency. Only recently was I made aware, through investigation and dealing with the council, that our Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs has withdrawn from our 11 councils the funding to provide animal welfare services, while insisting that the same councils deliver the services under the regulations that require them. The Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs now seems to be placing the onus on councils to provide such services without any financial support from it.”
“Northern Ireland will lead the way on that <BR /> <BR />I congratulate and thank the staff of the Northern Ireland Blood Transfusion Service and those who already donate. I encourage people to consider the real benefit that comes from donating blood and platelets in Northern Ireland.”
“That is also a service that the Northern Ireland Blood Transfusion Service offers. Platelets are needed by patients with leukaemia, those undergoing chemotherapy or bone marrow transplants and those who have undergone serious surgeries such as cardiac surgery. The difference between blood and platelet donations is that platelet donations can be kept for only up to seven days, so there is a constant need to refresh the donations. I encourage people to come forward for that. <BR /> <BR />It is encouraging that our Northern Ireland Blood Transfusion Service recently invested £20 million in a regional blood production and tracking (BPaT) system. Northern Ireland will be the first not just in the UK but in Europe to be able to fully trace a donation through to its end recipient on one electronic system.”
“I arrived home last night to an invitation from the Northern Ireland Blood Transfusion Service to my next donor session. I will take the opportunity to highlight the worthwhile work that it does and encourage everyone in the Chamber and everyone listening to become blood donors. <BR /> <BR />Each donation can support up to three people. Every week in Northern Ireland over 500 people rely on a blood donation that has been received from someone in Northern Ireland. The pints of donations are used within days. There are donation sessions across Northern Ireland at mobile sites and at the headquarters in Belfast City Hospital, so I encourage people to come forward and take those opportunities. <BR /> <BR />As well as encouraging people to donate blood, I ask them to consider donating platelets.”
“The key line in the statement is the call for additional funding this year. That lies within the power of the Assembly. I ask those in the Chamber and the members of the current Executive that, when it comes to the monitoring round later this month, they reflect on the decisions that they took last week. They have the opportunity to correct them when it comes to the monitoring round.”
“Last week, the Assembly passed a Budget. It was warned at that stage that it would have catastrophic impacts on the Health and Social Care (HSC) system across Northern Ireland. Some said that that was scaremongering, while others said that it was untrue. Unusually, the six chairs of our health and social care trusts have come out vocally this morning to warn about the impact that the Budget that was passed last Tuesday will have on the service. I quote from their statement:”
“— by other Ministers. <BR /> <BR />Mr Speaker, on my final day of office, can I just say that it has been an honour of my political life to twice serve as Minister of Health? I am absolutely certain that Mike Nesbitt will serve with similar commitment and pride.”
“I have to say that I did not always see evidence of that during the pandemic. Collective Executive decisions were publicly undermined within hours, and, of course, Executive COVID restrictions and guidelines were blatantly breached —”
“I agree with that, and that is why I will not do so. The ministerial code requires Ministers to:”
“I am trying to make progress. <BR /> <BR />As the chair of the BMA GPs committee said only this morning:”
“I want to make way. <BR /> <BR />It is based on individual Departments identifying inescapable pressures; yet, Departments use different assessments of what constitutes a pressure. I fully believe that an assessment based on the principle of reducing harm would have led to a different Budget outcome. It is my assessment, as Minister of Health, that the Budget, as presently set, will result in serious and potentially irreparable damage to health and care services. Mr Speaker, I do not say that lightly, nor did you in 2014. <BR /> <BR />In voting against the Budget today, I am conscious that I am not complying with the ministerial code. I do not do that easily, but I have a greater responsibility to defend and protect vital services, to stand up for patients and staff and to oppose cuts that will cause real harm.”
“<BR /> <BR />I fully accept that every pound given to the Department of Health is a pound less for somewhere else, but, frankly, not all need or level of risk is equal. That reflects the wider concerns with the budgetary process that I have sought to highlight in my discussions with Executive colleagues. The process is fundamentally flawed.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is little point in demanding maximum action to tackle waiting times and, at the same time, tying the Department of Health's hands behind its back. Likewise, I am sure that some of the very people telling me and the Department to suck it up and accept the Budget will soon be urging the Department of Health to increase spending on a plethora of health issues. In the budget assessment that the Department of Health commissioned following the initial Executive agreement to the Budget last month, it is clear that the remaining £189 million deficit will be resolved only through high and catastrophic impacts to essential services. Again, those are not my words or descriptions but, rather, how our health trusts have described the consequences.”
“It feels as though almost every MLA has either mentioned it or asked me about that over the last number of months. Overall, almost 70,000 people would have benefited. The full details were shared with the Committee a number of weeks ago and were included in the Department of Health's elective care framework document that was published at the end of last week. However, once again, when push came to shove, the only targeted funding for the waiting lists that the Department of Health received was the £34 million that, we already knew, we were getting from the UK Government: not a penny more and not even half of what, I said, I needed to keep up with red-flag and time-critical demand. That is the reality of the Budget.”
“That fact was recognised in the report published by the Fiscal Council only a number of weeks ago. That is the exact opposite of prioritising healthcare. Let me give an illustration: I received an in-year allocation in the last financial year to pay for the uplift in pay: is anyone seriously suggesting that that uplift is taken off our workers this year? Of course it will not be and cannot be, but that is the implication when people talk in such basic terms. <BR /> <BR />I said at the beginning that I could spend a further £135 million on critical activity to tackle hips, knees, cataracts and many other procedures. If funded, I had also planned to reinstate a reimbursement scheme, following the success of the previous cross-border scheme.”
“That is why I and so many patients and health service workers took reassurance from the public statements before and after the restoration of the Executive that the health of our people would be prioritised. Yet, this Budget does not achieve that. <BR /> <BR />Several other Departments, such as Education, Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, Justice and Infrastructure, are all receiving proportionally greater increases to their general allocations than the Department of Health. To those who claim that this is about party politics or elections, I say this: do not judge me by your standards, because this is too important for games. People can debate figures all day long, but the fact is that the Department of Health's budget has been cut by over 2% compared with where it stood a little over a month ago.”
“Those were not my words, Mr Speaker, but yours, when you were Health Minister in 2014. I applaud you for the stand that you took then. You, of course, were correct, but it is worth noting that you were removed as Health Minister a month later. <BR /> <BR />Sadly, funding for health and other public services has continued to be squeezed since then. The repeated stop-start nature of this place, combined with the failure to agree a multi-year Budget for almost a decade, has starved our health and social care system of the certainty and stable leadership that it so badly needs. We all agree, across the Chamber, that Northern Ireland is underfunded. At the same time, there is an onus on us to make the very best use of the resources that we have and to protect the most vulnerable.”
“I speak as a Back-Bench MLA. I begin with a quote from another Member:”
“<BR /> <BR />I commend the motion on the regulations to the Assembly.”
“<BR /> <BR />Before I finish, this may be the last occasion on which I address the Assembly as Health Minister, so I take the opportunity to thank Members for the support that they have given me in the role. I thank both Chairs of the Health Committee who served during my tenure, the officers and officials of the House and the Department officials who have supported me in this role. However, most of all, I thank the members of the healthcare profession, no matter where they worked across Northern Ireland or which role they were in, for the work and dedication that they gave the people of Northern Ireland throughout challenging times during the pandemic and especially in the last few months. Thank you, Deputy Speaker, for allowing me the opportunity to make those few personal comments.”
“I thank the Chair of the Health Committee and its members for their contribution. <BR /> <BR />I firmly believe that the introduction of the legislative provisions will benefit patients, the profession and the wider health service from the perspective that they share a common goal or aim to make it more convenient for all UK patients to get the medicines that they need at the time when and place where they need them. The provisions will reduce the need for appointments with additional health professionals just to receive the medicines needed, which often results in unnecessary delays to the start of treatment. I therefore commend the motion on the regulations to the Assembly.”
“I am pleased to confirm that the Committee was content with the policy intent and agreed to the draft regulations being approved. It is with the Committee's support that I bring the statutory instrument before the wider Assembly and its Members. I commend the motion to the Assembly.”
“They will be able to provide direct care to their patients, freeing up capacity in other parts of the healthcare system by supporting community pharmacy to provide more clinical services. I point out that the role of pharmacy technician is not currently a regulated and registered healthcare profession in Northern Ireland, so these amendments to the HMRs will not enable pharmacy technicians in Northern Ireland to use the patient group directions. However, once pharmacy technicians in Northern Ireland become a regulated and registered healthcare profession, a further amendment to the HMRs may be made to permit that. <BR /> <BR />My officials attended the Health Committee on 2 May to outline the full policy intent of the draft statutory instrument and to respond to any questions that the Committee might have on the proposals.”
“The amendments will also improve the use of a skills mix in health service dentistry to ensure that the full dental team can be utilised to deliver care to patients, which is an important element in improving access to health service dentistry. The job satisfaction of the professionals should also be improved by enabling them to work to the full scope of their practice. <BR /> <BR />The second consultation, on proposals to amend the HMRs to enable the use by pharmacy technicians of patient group directions, received over 2,200 responses, and 84% of respondents agreed with the proposals. The amendments will enable registered pharmacy technicians to use patient group directions across England, Wales and Scotland in any setting, including the health service and the independent and voluntary sectors.”
“They set out a comprehensive regime for the authorisation of products for their manufacture, import, distribution, sale and supply, for their labelling and advertising and for pharmacovigilance. Members will note that the amendments follow the completion of two UK-wide consultations to extend medicine responsibilities to the two regulated health professions. <BR /> <BR />The consultation to enable dental hygienists and dental therapists to supply and administer specific medicines under the exemptions received over 2,700 responses, with 97% of respondents agreeing with the proposals. It was highlighted that the proposals will support dental hygienists and dental therapists in providing the right care to patients to reduce unnecessary delays, where it is safe and appropriate to do so.”
“I seek the Assembly's approval for the making of the draft statutory instrument (SI), which will amend the Human Medicines Regulations 2012 or "HMRs", as they are commonly known, to allow dental hygienists and dental therapists to supply and administer specified prescription-only medicines, pharmacy or general sales list medicines in the practitioner's scope of practice, under exemption, without the use of a patient-specific direction or a patient group direction or without obtaining a prescription. The statutory instrument will also enable registered pharmacy technicians to supply and administer medicines using patient group directions in any setting, including the health service and the independent and voluntary sectors. <BR /> <BR />The HMRs are a set of UK laws that regulate the use of medicinal products for human use.”
“I, for one, am being totally honest about the Budget. It is still, as I have said, not too late for others to join me. As a parent, I sometimes worry about how best to explain the meaning of irony to my children, so I am grateful to Members for providing an excellent example that I can bring to their attention in the future.”
“The Chair of the Committee will know that I have recognised that this job is tough, but being Finance Minister in Northern Ireland at this time is on a comparable footing. I therefore commend her for the work that she is doing. What I do not agree with, however, is the allocation, agreed by the other Executive parties, that has been given to Health. <BR /> <BR />The BMA statement of that date also went on to say that the Northern Ireland Executive need:”
“As the conversations with the BMA are ongoing and have not concluded, I think that there is an opportunity for the Executive to look again at the Budget that has been presented. I recognise the welcome work that the Minister of Finance has completed recently on the fiscal framework and the fact that she is in Westminster today to engage further. I do not know why we would shackle ourselves to a Budget that was previously presented when there is still an opportunity for more money to come forward before we have to take an Executive decision.”
“Yet here we are. The party that tabled the motion and proclaimed to the world how much it supports junior doctors actually supports the Budget. You could not make it up.”
“It is not me who says that; it is the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council, which referred to that in its last report on pay awards and the pressures that they will bring. It is not uncommon for some in the House to brush aside concerns about budget cuts with bland and grand pronouncements about efficiency savings, but the budget that the Executive are handing Health for this year places even more severe limits on what can be done on junior doctors' pay. Do not take my word on that; in a statement issued on Thursday 25 April 2024, the BMA said that the allocation:”
“My argument and my position are that, if funding comes through a settlement in England, it should be allocated to my Department so that we can recognise our junior doctors and implement the funding for them here. I would look for support from the other Executive parties to secure that. Secondly, ahead of national DDRB recommendations for 2024-25, discussions on contract reform and non-pay terms and conditions can still be progressed. That is the route to making real improvements in the working conditions that were recognised and talked about today in what I firmly believe is an out-of-date contract. <BR /> <BR />With respect to Members, I conclude by emphasising that the Budget that the Assembly is poised to endorse next week will make progress on pay much more difficult, not just for junior doctors but for all health service workers.”
“Comparisons with Scotland have been made, but those are complicated by a different income tax rate there. As always, it is not about the headline but about the take-home pay. <BR /> <BR />I will conclude with two points. First, I urge the BMA junior doctors committee to continue to engage, notwithstanding the wholly unacceptable Budget settlement for Health. There are real issues of substance to discuss and make progress on. My Department is clear that implementing the DDRB-recommended package will not bring an end to pay discussions with the BMA. For example, a set moment is ongoing in the junior doctors' dispute in England that could result in further funding becoming available to Northern Ireland through a Barnett consequential. It would, of course, be a matter for the Executive to decide how such funding would be allocated.”
“We have delivered a new contract for our GPs under the GMS, which we talked about during Question Time. It has stepped outside the bounds of what would normally have been done. I firmly believe that, by engaging with our junior doctors committee, my departmental officials can do that again for Northern Ireland to address the other issues that have been raised today. I recognise that the junior doctors committee's mandate is on pay. This morning, I asked the committee whether we could look at a dual-track approach, looking at the contract while continuing the conversations about pay. The vast majority of our doctors work in rotas, which attracts that conversation and that additional payment that was mentioned earlier. That is the construct of the current Northern Ireland contract, and we are willing to engage on it.”
“It is a fact that we moved as quickly as we could once we received it. <BR /> <BR />It is misleading to look solely at basic pay rates when making comparisons with other jurisdictions. Junior doctors in England have a different contract that involves a higher basic pay rate than that in Northern Ireland, but they have lower additional payments, such as banding allowances, which are paid as an additional percentage of basic pay and which vary according to the rota that an individual doctor works. Again, that is why my Department and I are putting so much emphasis on that contract renegotiation with the junior doctors committee in Northern Ireland. It was indicated at the meeting that we had this morning that that would be a first for Northern Ireland.”
“Some of those issues have been raised here today, and real progress has been made since the Executive returned. When the ballot for industrial action was launched, junior doctors, like those in the rest of the health service, had received no pay award for 2023-24. We have put that right, implementing in full the recommendations of the pay review body — the independent DDRB. That award will be paid in the June pay run, landing in pay packets next month. <BR /> <BR />The reason for that timeline is that I had to wait to receive that money from the Department of Finance, which had to wait to receive it from Westminster as part of the restoration package. It was not the case that we, the Department of Finance or, indeed, the Business Services Organisation (BSO), as the paying authority, were sitting on that money and not moving.”
“I advise the House that I have written to the Finance Minister to propose a comprehensive independent review of public-sector pay in Northern Ireland that will look at a range of issues, including comparisons with neighbouring jurisdictions and recruitment and retention considerations. I have asked that that include not just the estimated costs of full pay restoration but the potential cost to public services, if pay erosion is not addressed. Therefore, I fully accept that that is an important issue, but I stress again that the responsibility rests with those whose policies created the situation, namely, the Westminster Government. <BR /> <BR />That is not to say that progress in other areas cannot be made between my Department and the BMA junior doctors committee.”
“<BR /> <BR />I could not turn to nurses, paramedics, social workers and social care workers and say, "Sorry, this special pay uplift is not for you". If we gave that tree another shake, we could maybe dislodge another £1 billion, which Agenda for Change staff would seek to restore their pay levels. Likewise, other Ministers would not relish delivering the same message to teachers, police officers, civil servants, public transport workers and all the other workers in key services. That, in a nutshell, is why pay restoration is not just a cross-cutting issue for the Executive but an issue that they cannot resolve, given their limited fiscal headroom and current acute budgetary pressures. Therefore, we must realise those hard realities. <BR /> <BR />Members have asked about business cases.”
“<BR /> <BR />All our public-sector workers were impacted by pay restraint, so pay restoration spans our entire public sector. I want to set that in context. If we had that mythical, magical money tree to shake and if I were able to commit to the BMA's request for a 32% uplift for our junior doctors, even over a longer term, that would require a further £52 million per annum before any other pay awards were considered. Amending the public-sector pay policy, which was adopted UK wide for all our employed doctors and dentists, would require an additional sum of over £210 million each year before pay awards. I do not believe that the House would want me to make an exception just for junior doctors in that regard.”
“The reality is that, at the heart of what is a national dispute, there is a demand for pay restoration for what would be a landmark pay settlement that reverses the below-inflation increases from over the past decade and more. I am sure that many in the House have sympathy with that cause, but it must be remembered that public-sector pay restraint has been a core element of UK Government policy for 10 years and more. It has been a centrepiece of austerity and, inevitably, has impacted on all public-sector pay awards in Northern Ireland over time. It was reflected in public-sector pay policy, which the Department of Finance actually set and, indeed, in pay awards that were given by previous Northern Ireland Health Ministers, some of whom are still in the House today, and by Ministers in other Departments.”
“<BR /> <BR />Officials from the Department have met the BMA junior doctors committee on a number of occasions and will continue to do so. While the negotiations are, quite properly, led on my Department's side by our workforce negotiating team, I remain across the detail and will continue to do all in my power to facilitate progress. That has been detailed in my letters to the junior doctors committee in which I set out my Department's position and offered independent arbitration in the talks. To date, that offer, which I made again this morning, has not been taken up. <BR /> <BR />What I will not do is make promises that cannot be fulfilled. Populist gestures might be good for headlines and photo opportunities on picket lines or, indeed, in social media videos, but they do not help to resolve the situation.”