Carla Lockhart
Upper Bann · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“You tell Brownlow that the Executive have failed them and that I have failed them. I do not believe that that is right. Tell the people in Upper Bann who have waited for years to have a Minister of Education who had a heart for the Dickson plan that the Executive have failed them.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak in this debate. I certainly had not planned to, and I do not have anything prepared, but I felt that it was necessary to get up as an elected representative for the Upper Bann constituency.”
“I thank the Minister for her answers thus far. I have to say, Minister, that this has been a very worrying time for the people of Portadown, particularly those who are sick and very vulnerable at this time.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I am not saying that we have a perfect world out there. I am not saying that we have adequate resources to service the needs of everyone. I am saying that this was a workable solution, and we thought that it would, over five years, certainly make a change.”
“You can laugh and scorn, but, to be honest, I do not mind: laugh away. I am here to represent my people. I have a heart for Upper Bann, and I do not want the institutions to fall, because I believe that they deliver for people on the ground. That is what I am prepared to do; that is what I am elected to do.”
“Believe it or not, the needs of their electorate are exactly the same as those of my electorate. That is the harsh reality. As we sit here today, the electorate needs good healthcare, good education and a functioning Executive who deliver for them. Unfortunately, some took the decision to walk away.”
The complete record
Every one of 132 lines we hold for Carla Lockhart, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 1 of 3.
“Has the Department previously received money for housing through the Barnett consequentials, and, if so, how has the money been allocated?”
“I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. Will he confirm to the House what the legislation is around this particular issue?”
“Certainly. All I can say is that we, as a party, have sought to deliver for the people whom we represent, and, when we go out to our constituents, we will sell that delivery, because that is what has happened.”
“I thank the Member for her intervention. I commend her because I believe that she is a passionate politician, and I can see that. <BR /> <BR />I believe that no party or person is above doing something wrong or making a mistake. We all stand here as elected representatives —”
“Believe it or not, the needs of their electorate are exactly the same as those of my electorate. That is the harsh reality. As we sit here today, the electorate needs good healthcare, good education and a functioning Executive who deliver for them. Unfortunately, some took the decision to walk away. I trust that people will scratch the surface, look beneath the surface and realise that those who have walked away are to blame for this mess.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I am not saying that we have a perfect world out there. I am not saying that we have adequate resources to service the needs of everyone. I am saying that this was a workable solution, and we thought that it would, over five years, certainly make a change. Unfortunately, there are those who have walked away, and it is they who should answer your question. I am prepared to stand in the House and fight for more social housing. I am prepared to stand and ensure that the number of people on the housing list goes down. That is what I am here to do. That is what I am elected to do, as are you, Mr Allen, and I do not take that away from anyone. <BR /> <BR />It is a stark day when a party walks away from the electorate.”
“You can laugh and scorn, but, to be honest, I do not mind: laugh away. I am here to represent my people. I have a heart for Upper Bann, and I do not want the institutions to fall, because I believe that they deliver for people on the ground. That is what I am prepared to do; that is what I am elected to do. I can assure you that, going forward, that is what I will stand on. I believe that, as an elected representative, I am their voice and their listening ear. It is vital that I get up every day of the week and represent the people whom I have been elected to represent.”
“You tell Brownlow that the Executive have failed them and that I have failed them. I do not believe that that is right. Tell the people in Upper Bann who have waited for years to have a Minister of Education who had a heart for the Dickson plan that the Executive have failed them. We had a Minister who listened to the people of Upper Bann and was willing to go out and say, "Do you know what? There is a system that works. Why break it? Why tear it down?". You tell those people that the Executive did not work and that I have failed them. I do not believe that we have. <BR /> <BR />I can go through a litany of things that I have delivered, such as Millennium Way, new road infrastructure in Lurgan. We waited 40 years for that — 40 years — and this Executive delivered it. I welcome that.”
“If those Members were to take a step back, they would realise that they are there to do that and fight for their constituency. <BR /> <BR />You tell me and my constituents about failure and the likes of Brownlow, which has been able to achieve over £40,000 or £50,000 in grant funding towards promoting shared education in Lurgan, which has been one of the most polarised towns in this country.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak in this debate. I certainly had not planned to, and I do not have anything prepared, but I felt that it was necessary to get up as an elected representative for the Upper Bann constituency. It is a great pleasure to stand here today and to continue to represent the people who put me here. <BR /> <BR />It is a very sad day for Northern Ireland and a very grave day for Northern Ireland. I sat and listened to the Members in this Chamber echoing and howling and growling about the failures of the Assembly, and I have to say that I believe that that is a reflection on them. Since I was elected, I have, in over 250 days, sought to fight and to deliver for the people of Upper Bann, and that is what I am here to do.”
“I thank the Minister for her answers thus far. I have to say, Minister, that this has been a very worrying time for the people of Portadown, particularly those who are sick and very vulnerable at this time. We have sick children, and I know a lady of 102 who is very ill at this time, and this is causing undue distress for her and her family. <BR /> <BR />I believe that there was irresponsible politicking around stating that a contractor had been found when we all knew that there was difficulty and that it was not at an advanced stage. I call on you, Minister, to give assurances to the people of Portadown today that they will be looked after and that the level of care that they require will be provided by the contractors that you have put in place in this short-term period.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will he join me in commending the PSNI for its excellent campaign at Christmas? One night, I was stopped and breathalysed on two occasions. Thankfully, the breathalyser returned readings of zero. I do not know who would have been more shocked had it demonstrated anything different. That highlights that that type of enforcement works. The PSNI needs to be commended for its hard work and expertise this Christmas.”
“Thank you. As someone who sat on the southern zone, will the Member agree that his colleague Colin McCusker sat on that board, scrutinised everything and was very, very content with the projects that went forward from the southern zone?”
“I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. The Minister will be aware that a very successful white ribbon event was held last week in this Building, hosted by Women's Aid, and I am sure that he will demonstrate his commitment to it. How much funding from his Department goes to Women's Aid?”
“I am conscious of my time. <BR /> <BR />I think that the EA has been disingenuous around the figure of £1·3 million, because it has said that that will be reinvested into peripatetics. I question that, and I think that the EA has a lot of questions to answer. We all have representatives on the EA board, and it is vital that the political representatives on the EA board question the EA on its rationale for bringing this consultation forward. I ask everyone in the House to make their comments known to the Minister and make them known to the EA, because it is the EA that, I believe, has serious questions to answer in all of this.”
“That does not mean that I am an advocate of them closing. It means that I am an advocate of the EA actually sitting down and telling us the facts and the truths around whether, if centres are to close, there is the capacity in the ones that remain open to deal with the numbers of young people that will be going to them. I also think that the EA has been slightly disingenuous with its comments —”
“I will certainly not take any lectures from the Member across the way, because, when she was Minister, the unfortunate thing is that the education and library boards did not tackle the problem and the under usage. I will not take any lectures from her. <BR /> <BR />Our Minister is compassionate about our young people, and I have no doubt that he will do everything in his power to ensure that young people get the very best education and outdoor experience during his term in office. I do go back to the fact that we are in changing times. There is not a bottomless pit of money, and it would be wrong of us as a party of government to say that things will not have to change. I understand that things will have to change and that there does have to be a rationalisation and a looking at the entire estate.”
“There is no doubt that they have a positive impact on their communication skills, their leadership skills, their teamworking skills and their ability to experience the real outdoors. For many who are from a town setting, it often is potentially the only time that they will have access to that real outdoor experience. I commend the many workers who, throughout the years, have had that impact on children and young people who have used this service. <BR /> <BR />When we received the briefing from the EA at the Education Committee, I was somewhat shocked at some of the revelations that the EA came forward with. As my colleague William Humphrey pointed out, this is an EA consultation, and it is an EA recommendation. I think that we have to be aware that the EA has arrived at this consultation stage.”
“I thank the Member for bringing this debate to the Floor of the Chamber. I commend the large number of people who have turned out in force, obviously demonstrating to us the depth of feeling that there is amongst the community on this very important issue. I also thank the Minister for taking time to come and listen to the debate. Obviously, he will make his comments in due course. <BR /> <BR />At the outset, I want to talk about the invaluable service that these outdoor centres have given to our society, our constituents and our young people. I can think back to my time at school when I attended some of the centres, and that is not that terribly long ago, although it maybe feels a little bit longer than what it is. They are fantastic facilities, and they do give a real added benefit to a child's overall growth and social skills.”
“I thank the First Minister for her answers thus far. Does she agree that the most important relationship is not with the EU but with the United Kingdom?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. I welcome her very positive remarks about the north-west, but I encourage her today to take note of the issues that are unfolding in the Portadown area. I know that I may be stretching this, but I really feel that it is imperative that you as Minister recognise the great need there and that that is addressed within the overall health reform.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. The public, I believe, do not mind who does the work as long it gets done. As an MLA for a constituency with many small towns and villages, such as Dollingstown, Waringstown, Seapatrick and Scarva, can I ask the Minister how his Department will determine which small settlements will benefit from public realm schemes?”
“I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. It is disappointing that, at a time when, I believe, staff morale is low, we have this question before the House in such a manner. I thank the Minister for his efforts in assisting teachers in this role. Will the Minister explain to the House and dispel the myth that teachers on the mainland are better off than those in Northern Ireland?”
“I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. I am sure that he will extend his congratulations to Sure Start on its extension in the Mourneview ward in the Lurgan area. <BR /> <BR />Why should we focus on early years and its importance in the overall educational offering in Northern Ireland?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Given the Member's long history in teaching, would she not agree that the pupil:teacher ratio is quite important in budgeting and that, if we were to address that and reduce it, it would leave more money for extracurricular activities and tackling educational attainment?”
“— it is vital that we work together to ensure the best possible outcomes for Northern Ireland.”
“The Member makes a point about who supported it. That has given us a basis to work from. There must be community consultation with parents, because we are a party that is fundamentally wedded to ensuring that parental choice is adhered to. I firmly believe that, with a change in strategic leadership and a Minister committed to parental choice, there is an opportunity to ensure that our estate is fit for purpose in the 21st century. It may in some instances cause pain and anguish, but for the long-term sustainability —”
“I know that in my constituency there is a very clear model of how not to bring forward an area plan, and I have only to think back to the mess that was made around the Dickson plan, when a plan was brought forward that was not transparent and on which there was no consultation with communities.”
“I thank the Member for her intervention. Yes, figures do need to be looked at, but I also draw the Member's attention to a meeting that we sat in just a number of hours ago in one of the Committee rooms when we were told by principals that there is a major problem with funding, that empty school desks and spaces are at the heart of that and that it needs to be addressed. The Member has to take responsibility whenever she brings forward motions like this and should not use our schools and our children as a political football, which is what is happening in this place today. <BR /> <BR />We are all aware that it is the responsibility of the Education Authority to liaise with the sectoral representatives, and I believe that will be a vital component of a comprehensive plan that meets the needs of the specific area.”
“We must shape a new school estate that meets the needs of the area in which it operates, ensures that the children whom it serves achieve improved educational equality and improves the experience for all its users. I welcome the Programme for Government's commitment to our children, and, to that end, I am utterly confident the Minister will ensure there is an improvement in educational outcomes, a reduction in educational inequality and an improvement in the quality of education provided. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that empty school places and the surplus capacity are having a detrimental impact on our overall budget for schools, and therefore it is imperative that a rationalisation of the school estate happens. We are all too aware that —”
“<BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that problems exist in smaller schools, sometimes with the lack of breadth in their offering, be it curriculum, the formal offering or the extended offering. They sometimes have difficulty attracting and retaining staff to leadership positions, and existing staff having to fulfil several roles sometimes deters them from developing specialisms in particular areas. So, yes, whilst we have to look at the overall picture, it is important that we do not do so through rose-tinted glasses and that we say, "It is the children and their education we are putting first". <BR /> <BR />We are all responsible politicians — well, most of us — and therefore we all know from our life experience that not everything can stay the same.”
“<BR /> <BR />I stand in the House today to commend the systematic and empathetic way the Minister has approached this matter to date, and I have no doubt that, going forward, whilst he will not shirk his overall responsibility, he will do what is best by the school estate and ensure that children have a sustainable and high-quality education service. There is no doubt that a rural school education is unique within a small school setting. The educational and pastoral care are exemplary, and I personally have benefited from those offerings. However, with its benefits also come some disadvantages and challenges for the children and the dedicated teaching staff.”
“Having been educated in a smaller-school setting in rural Tyrone just along the border area, I know all too well the importance of rural proofing and the need to protect and invest in services that, for many years, suffered as a result of the Troubles. My primary school was particularly small, with my class of seven being one of the biggest. I moved on to a post-primary school that was also small, so I know all too well the needs of rural areas and the need for area-based planning to take into account the specifics of an area and not just to look at the cold, hard figures.”
“I am grateful to be able to participate in the debate. As a party, we want to provide sustainable, high-quality education for all children and young people in Northern Ireland regardless of background, social mobility or location and to see a fair and equitable offering that gives children the very best start in life and enables them to fulfil their potential.”
“I thank the Minister for that answer. Will the Minister assure the House that he will continue to prioritise the skills that manufacturing businesses require? It is evident when I am out there that they want us as a Government to look at the skills set that they require.”
“Yes. Obviously, Sinn Féin agreed to it. I think that it would be remiss of me not to mention that our colleague Jim Allister agreed with the Government. We certainly welcome that. It is a historic move.”
“I think that is very true; I do not think nurture is a silver bullet to deal with all the problems that can occur in a young person's life, but I believe it has its place and is very cost-effective. <BR /> <BR />Rosemary Barton outlined how she wants to see the best start in life for children. She wants nurture groups to be rolled out in all areas throughout the country, in all schools, and to look towards post-primary. I certainly take Mrs Barton's comments on board, but we have to look at the sustainability and viability of it. I think that the Minister made the point with regard to the amount of funding that it would take to have it in every school. <BR /> <BR />Catherine Seeley, in her contribution to the debate, said that it did help in the development of positive relationships.”
“You also noted the academic achievements and said that further research is needed into those. The Minister broadly agreed that he would look at that situation. <BR /> <BR />My colleague Phillip Logan said there are clear indicators within the report that intervention works and that there is a wider school impact. When schools as a whole benefit from these nurture groups, they say it has a ripple effect — like a stone in a pond — on other classes. He commended the Minister for his commitment to further investment. He said it was likely to pay for itself in two years, which, again, demonstrates its viability and sustainability. <BR /> <BR />Barry McElduff spoke as Chair of the Education Committee. He said that nurture sits well with other early interventions.”
“You also noted — through the Chair — that early intervention is important and that social, emotional and behavioural skills are developed in nurture units. You noted that it cost £70,000 per school and were keen to see some further research. You said you would support amendment No 2 and vote against amendment No 1. <BR /> <BR />Chris Dickson said there was a 57% reduction in behavioural problems as a result of nurture units. He said that — Chris Lyttle: apologies. This is my first time giving a winding-up speech in a debate, so please bear with me. One in five showed improvements having been in a nurture unit, which, I think, is a good statistic to quote. The costs for families and social services etc can be addressed and mitigated by nurture units and can actually be reduced.”
“<BR /> <BR />In her comments, Jennifer McCann talked about the units having a very similar environment to the home. Again, there was widespread support for the fact that these children are getting very basic skills. Fortunately, quite a few of us in the House probably never experienced that situation because we were brought up in a relatively stable environment. I think that was well noted. She also noted the need to make sure that places are provided to families who have got caught in the trap of deprivation. That point has been well made. <BR /> <BR />Sandra Overend noted that, throughout the UK, there are quite a number of nurture units and said that there was maybe something we could learn from them and share.”
“You quite rightly said it was important to get the foundations right. You noted the reality that there are limited resources. We acknowledge that. I think it has to be said that there is not a bottomless pit of money, but, again, there has been a commitment. I also note that you quoted the £1/£9 scenario, and, again, that demonstrates that, if we invest early, it will have a positive impact. <BR /> <BR />I note that Colin McGrath, moving the second amendment, said that he welcomed the Queen's University report. I know that, with his background, he is very interested in the long-term impact of nurture units on youth provision. He said he wants to see them widened, as well as a sustainable funding model, which was the train of thought of most people throughout the House.”
“<BR /> <BR />Steven Agnew moved amendment No 1 and commended Peter Martin, one of my colleagues, who has done a lot of work on this.”
“Apologies — it was Harryville; we commend them. <BR /> <BR />I will move to Members' contributions. Lord Morrow led on this and very eloquently outlined the DUP's position. He has always championed the need to ensure that children who are on the margins of society have adequate provision. He said that a stitch in time saves public funds and gives hope for families, and I think that the message that has been woven throughout today's debate is that early intervention and the money spent on nurture units will have a positive effect in the future. He noted that there was funding from a variety of sources and that there is no doubt that the Minister is committed to trying to mainstream that and to move it forward from within the education budget so that each nurture unit has some security in its long-term provision.”
“There was mention of the Marjorie Boxall award for nurture provision, and Rathcoole was, I think, the latest unit to receive that award.”
“I thank the Member for his contribution; maybe that is the one that I will visit, if you are willing to be accommodating. <BR /> <BR />From my perspective, it is important that these children and young people experience this in a safe environment, and I believe that there is probably nowhere safer than a school setting. Whilst things may be falling apart around them in their life, as children and as individuals, it is important that there is some structure in the school setting. <BR /> <BR />There has been reference to the Queen's University report, and I will quote the director of the centre for evidence and innovation, Paul Connolly:”
“Quite often, these young people, as we heard, are some of the most vulnerable in society —”
“I thank the Members who participated in the debate. It has been a momentous occasion for the House in the level of agreement. I want to start by commending the Minister for all his work on and commitment to nurture units and for the commitment that he gave throughout his speech on their sustainability and on looking at new ways of doing this. I trust that, when I ask him for one in Upper Bann, he will be so obliging. <BR /> <BR />It has been a good debate. We have been very clearly educated about nurture units. I have only entered the Assembly and taken up my role on the Education Committee, and I have not had the privilege of visiting a nurture unit; I will make a point of doing that. There is no question that nurture units help to develop children and young people who avail themselves of them.”
“I thank the Minister for his answers. He has already touched on this, but will he outline how the Department of Education will ensure that Fresh Start Agreement funding is fully maximised?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that children often find themselves in nurture units because the family unit has broken down in some way or they are not getting adequate provision outside the school setting and that, to all intents and purposes, the school setting is one of the better places to give security to those children?”
“— and I know that the Minister will continue to work to this end.”