Jenny Palmer
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will the Member agree with me that, in trying to address the fuel poverty situation for our families in their homes, a project was put before the Department from the Housing Executive to fit photovoltaic panelling, which would have allowed our homes to have been heated at a lesser cost, and that would ha…”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I share your concerns around the issue of the motion that came before the House in the name of Jim Allister and the fact that Sinn Féin, at the time, did not support it.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree that competing priorities and the lack of funding to address the issue of cavity wall insulation are factors? The cost to the public purse would be around £140 million, which does not seem to be money that is readily available in the current circumstances.”
“Does the Member agree that civil servants have an obligation to act in a non-partisan, non-political fashion and that the public, because of all the scandals that SpAds have been involved in — Red Sky, NAMA and all the others — believes that the culture in the Civil Service is that officials are overruled by SpAds and that they do not tak…”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree with me that, on building the electorate's trust in the Assembly, issues like no risk registers being identified, due diligence and good governance were all failures of the Assembly and the Executive in terms of the RHI scheme?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that in the interest of good governance it is important to ascertain who made the determinations not to open the risk registers in DETI and in DFP? Was it because Westminster was picking up the tab?”
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“I thank the Member for giving way. I share your concerns around the issue of the motion that came before the House in the name of Jim Allister and the fact that Sinn Féin, at the time, did not support it. The U-turn today is because it now impacts on their communities and it is a selfish and an arrogant statement that I have made today in pointing the finger at Sinn Féin for not taking the responsibility 18 months ago.”
“Will the Minister outline what discussions he has had with senior members of staff of the Northern Ireland Housing Executive on the future of the Northern Ireland Housing Executive, and where that is?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will the Member agree with me that, in trying to address the fuel poverty situation for our families in their homes, a project was put before the Department from the Housing Executive to fit photovoltaic panelling, which would have allowed our homes to have been heated at a lesser cost, and that would have gone a long way towards eradicating fuel poverty, but, unfortunately, the Department kicked it out?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree that competing priorities and the lack of funding to address the issue of cavity wall insulation are factors? The cost to the public purse would be around £140 million, which does not seem to be money that is readily available in the current circumstances.”
“Does the Member agree that civil servants have an obligation to act in a non-partisan, non-political fashion and that the public, because of all the scandals that SpAds have been involved in — Red Sky, NAMA and all the others — believes that the culture in the Civil Service is that officials are overruled by SpAds and that they do not take their codes of conduct, codes of recruitment and ethical codes with any great seriousness, which means that the two main political parties have the biggest say in what happens in the Departments? Mr Allister brought before the Assembly an opportunity to curb the role of SpAds, and Sinn Féin blocked it, after saying initially that they would support it. There are serious issues to clean up in this House, and not just on the role of the SpAds but on giving back correct procedures to civil servants.”
“If the Member will give way, I would be delighted to contribute to the debate.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree with me that, on building the electorate's trust in the Assembly, issues like no risk registers being identified, due diligence and good governance were all failures of the Assembly and the Executive in terms of the RHI scheme?”
“What action is the Minister taking, in conjunction with the PSNI and the Justice Minister, to address the constant delays on the North/South corridor at Lurgan due to security alerts?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that in the interest of good governance it is important to ascertain who made the determinations not to open the risk registers in DETI and in DFP? Was it because Westminster was picking up the tab? Does he also agree with the concerns raised today that the permanent secretary did not move to mitigate?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Do you agree that, because this is partly funded by Europe, the European Union will have a veto on, or a say in, the regulations before us today?”
“No, I am afraid that I for one, having been through purgatory because of the DUP, certainly will not allow them to conceal the truth behind opaque Assembly mechanisms. <BR /> <BR />Arlene Foster is too closely tied to the scandal. Her party has a miserable history of protecting itself from any meaningful scrutiny by this Assembly. For that reason, she absolutely must stand aside while a genuinely independent investigation is done.”
“Why would anyone doubt for a moment that, if the report produced by the PAC was unpalatable to DUP Members, they would attempt to water it down or block it? They have done it before. They did it to me. Even if a report is issued independently — one that rightly points to the odious incompetence at the heart of the DUP — without the proper Assembly powers, why would we doubt that they would misuse the petitions of concern and other mechanisms to insulate their party from justice?”
“A report was issued in 2014 in which I was vindicated and a certain gentleman sitting on the DUP Back Benches, as well as the special adviser who conveniently retired from politics shortly before this mess was exposed, were found wanting. That report, which was produced by the Assembly's Social Development Committee after exhaustive evidence sessions and research, contained the truth of the matter. How did the First Minister's party react to the truth being shown? They tried to silence it. They tried to put forward their own spin in the form of a minority report. They tried to use the petition of concern to defend the party and the Minister from the truth coming out. They treated the Assembly, the Committee and me with contempt. <BR /> <BR />Why on earth should we ever trust that party to accept the truth?”
“No, I will not. <BR /> <BR />How foolish does she think the people of Northern Ireland are that they would trust her to be impartial and allow a report to be published — and its recommendations enacted — that will damn her and her party? Does she honestly expect the House and the people of Northern Ireland to have such short memories? Does the First Minister expect the way in which I was treated to be forgotten and the slate wiped clean? I am sorry, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, but it seems that she apparently has forgotten what happened the last time a DUP Minister was investigated for loathsome practice and the disdain with which the DUP treats Committee reports.”
“Why would businesses look to come here when our First Minister has made such a catastrophic policy decision? She was the First Minister; she was responsible. What must the United Kingdom Treasury think of us and our apparent inability to manage public funds? Will this impact on our future ask for additional block grant funding? What will the head of the Civil Service do about the possible negligence issues amongst senior staff? The DUP, particularly its leadership, is central to this, and the First Minister stepping aside will help to fix some of the harm that has been done to our business reputation. <BR /> <BR />The second reason for the First Minister to step aside is this: no one can trust her to do the right thing. How on earth can the First Minister expect anyone to put their faith in her while this issue is being investigated?”
“There are two principal reasons why the First Minister must take responsibility for the mess and stand aside. First, her ineptitude has dealt a devastating blow to our international business reputation. For a Minister who prided herself on the levels of FDI that she attracted and boasted of how attractive she would make Northern Ireland for investment, she has brought disdain on these institutions, which are now held up to public ridicule. <BR /> <BR />I agree that we ought to fight to limit the damage done to our public purse. We need to stop the bleed as best we can. The First Minister is not a safe pair of hands on Northern Ireland's public finances. She is clearly not across the detail, despite her public utterances that "detail is important".”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Will he ask Tourism Ireland to support the promotion of our excellent airports, as opposed to just Dublin Airport?”
“I thank the Minister for his responses so far. Will he confirm whether, in light of the Finance Minister's comments, the decision not to devolve the powers was an Executive decision or a solo run?”
“I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. What engagement has his Department had with the Health Minister and her officials to assess whether the Supporting People programme, as outlined in the Northern Ireland Housing Executive's housing related support strategy, has met the Bamford review-related targets?”
“Can I ask the Minister to give a time frame for introducing legislation that mirrors Clare's Law in England to address the disclosure of domestic violence and sexual offences?”
“I thank the Minister for her response thus far. Last month, Rabbi David Singer indicated that he believed that there had been an increase in anti-Semitism in Northern Ireland. The Minister touched on that. How do the Executive intend to collect data during this mandate to monitor the levels of anti-Semitism in our society?”
“Will the Minister give a commitment to meet the Lagan Navigation Trust to explore the unique opportunities that exist in linking the greenways network with Lagan valley regional park and the blueways network to allow for the greatest possible benefit to the network?”
“Sadly, however — this is key — Resurgam appears to be the silver lining in a very grey cloud. <BR /> <BR />In closing, the Executive need to get serious about eliminating poverty, and the first step is taking ownership of the problem. We need a strategy and a long-term plan. It has to be detailed and effective to reduce poverty and deprivation and tackle social exclusion, and, most of all, it has to deliver.”
“No, I will not. I am busy. <BR /> <BR />First, they could not give £80 million away. Then, when they managed to spend some of it, it turned out that they were handing millions of pounds of public money to people who have attracted almost daily negative publicity. There has clearly been a major failing over the lack of transparency and openness in terms of which groups could apply for funding. Some groups and organisations that have the skills and capacity to deliver were excluded. There has also been a major failing in terms of how costs such as management fees were paid out. <BR /> <BR />In my constituency — I know that the Minister is waiting for this — the Resurgam Trust is living proof that the strategic investment fund can do great work. From my own experience, I cannot speak highly enough of the work that it has done.”
“Instead, the supposed flagship is the social investment fund. It was to be the silver bullet; their big idea to tackle poverty and deprivation. As the last few days have shown, it has fallen far short of those aims. In terms of governance —”
“Even the High Court ruled that they had breached a legal duty by failing to adopt an identifiable strategy setting out how they proposed to tackle poverty, social exclusion and patterns of deprivation based on objective need. We need an integrated strategy to protect the vulnerable; one that looks at welfare, education, housing, health, justice, training and employment, plus the arts, leisure and culture. We must put people at the heart of the intervention strategy. I believe that we could learn some lessons from the Dutch model, which targets government spending at those most in need and seeks to move them out of poverty. We need to end the current reality in which families find themselves in a revolving door of poverty. <BR /> <BR />The most vulnerable need a voice in this debate. There has to be a genuine will to achieve real change.”
“One day they will blame the EU for interfering, and the next day they will blame the impact of uncertainty over Brexit. The only thing that they do not accept is any responsibility themselves. The DUP and Sinn Féin are in government as a partnership; they are two sides of the same coin. They need to learn the lesson that with power comes responsibility. They have had the power for nine years; it is surely time that they took some responsibility. Sooner or later, the realisation will dawn on them that there really is nobody else to blame. <BR /> <BR />What have they delivered in the decade in which they have been in charge? Look at the most deprived areas of Northern Ireland. Time and time again, the same names appear. For how long will we tolerate those names standing on the most-deprived lists?”
“We on the official Opposition Benches take no pleasure in bringing this motion before the House. The facts are incredible: 376,000 people in Northern Ireland, which is a staggering 21% of us, live in relative poverty. That figure is larger than any settlement in Northern Ireland bar Belfast; it is nearly five Bangors, around seven Omaghs and more than triple Lisburn. <BR /> <BR />The two parties in the Executive have been lead parties of government for almost 10 years. They may try to pass the buck, as we have already heard from the two Members who spoke previously. They can and do try to blame others for their failings. They will blame the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP. They will blame the Conservative Government at Westminster. They will blame the Dublin Government for poaching our jobs and investment.”
“I welcome the Minister's statement. What a difference a month makes in policy and direction. Can he give assurances that, when he meets the Chancellor on Brexit implications, the York Street interchange will be at the top of his priorities?”
“Does the Minister agree that safety is a paramount consideration and planning decisions must be made on material planning grounds? Will he encourage his colleague the Minister for Infrastructure to take his decision on Casement on a completely non-political basis?”
“Thank you very much for giving way. There has been a lot of talk in this debate around massive sporting events. Do you agree with me that more needs to be given to the Women's Rugby World Cup next year and the European Women's Under-19 Football Championships next year? Women are certainly at —”
“I also thank the Minister for his answers thus far. Will the Minister give an assessment of the impact a reopened Ulster canal would have on income derived from tourism to the area in comparison with the regeneration and maintenance costs?”
“<BR /> <BR />With regard to the call for on-street parking time limits to be extended in rural towns and villages, as I have already stated, nobody likes to pay for parking but, by the same token, people want to be able to access parking at locations where they want to do business. Extending time limits could cause congestion, causing greater inconvenience for people who want to park but are unable to find a space. We must be aware of the law of unintended consequences. <BR /> <BR />Finally, we agree with the call on the Minister for Infrastructure to review urgently the contract for on-street parking, which is also reflected in the amendment.”
“Thank you. It leads us to look for a comprehensive set of measures, which could include looking at reducing business rates in small towns and villages. We are certainly open to the review of parking charges and measures as to how we can support town centres. There is certainly merit in exploring the impact which a comprehensive strategy would have. However, that is wider than what the motion before us calls for. We should also remember that most of the car parks were transferred to local government and are now run by councils, so they would obviously have to be consulted for their views of any overhaul. Indeed, devolving parking to councils is something that must be considered seriously.”
“Nobody likes to pay for parking but, by the same token, people also want to access parking at locations convenient to where they want to shop or do business.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. The 50% discount is offered to ensure prompt payment, and it seems to me to be exactly what the proposers of the motion are calling for in terms of the charge being reduced significantly. <BR /> <BR />For some reason, this appears to be a DUP acting-alone motion, away from its coalition partners who control the Department responsible. One might reasonably have expected the DUP to run the motion past Sinn Féin before tabling it. Instead, we have a Sinn Féin amendment before us, which also takes a sensible approach. As you would say, it is probably not joined-up government. <BR /> <BR />Obviously, it would be great if we could free up parking everywhere, 24 hours a day.”
“In any case, we should point out that, whilst the charge is indeed £90, if payment is received within 14 days of receiving a penalty charge notice, or within 15 days by letter, a 50% discount applies. You have to pay £45. That has been outlined in the debate thus far. The discount is offered to ensure prompt payment, and the 50% reduction seems to me to be exactly what the —”
“There is some merit in the motion and in the amendment. All of us should be seeking to ensure smooth traffic flow in our towns and cities and that people can access parking spaces so that they can do business. It is essential that we support local traders and ensure that our town centres remain vibrant. However, we have to strike a balance because every car in a parking space means that that is one parking space that cannot be used by another motorist or shopper. It is important that we have proper regulation to ensure turnover and not have a large number of motorists driving around town centres searching for parking spaces because people are not moving from them. <BR /> <BR />I have a number of points to make. I ask the proposers of the motion to state what would be a more appropriate figure than £90.”
“Thank you for the response, Minister. In view of the significant economic impact that has been highlighted by all stakeholders, including many manufacturing and logistics companies in my constituency, will the Minister seek to engage with the Minister of Finance to look at alternative funding mechanisms directly with the Chancellor, thereby bypassing the extremely short-sighted perspective of the Infrastructure Minister?”
“We were told a year ago that, under the Fresh Start Agreement between the Minister's party and Sinn Féin, there would be £125 million for the Social Security Agency to tackle fraud and error. I am concerned because, at his previous Question Time, the Minister said:”
“I thank the Minister for his update on the rapid transit system. Given that Belfast was found to be the United Kingdom's third most congested city yesterday, is the Minister content that enough is being done to address the problem, in particular through the York Street interchange, which would be transformative for dealing with congestion?”
“I hear what you say. The Northern Ireland Housing Executive has a stock of 88,000 and, as one of the biggest commercial small business portfolios, would have the capacity to borrow on the strength of that if the shackles were removed to allow it to become an independent housing association as a charity, just like all the other housing associations. It is all in the detail, and it is for the Minister to solve that detail and to try to deliver far better housing for Northern Ireland. I welcome the motion today.”
“I bet you any money that social housing would be built at a far better price. I am happy to give way.”
“I will in a second. Unfortunately, at the very beginning, the Housing Executive was funded fully from the public purse, and the decision was taken that the Housing Executive would not be able to avail itself of full housing funding. There is an opportunity here to split the Housing Executive into two entities. One would become one of the largest housing associations, de-shackled, along with the housing associations, as we move forward. I believe that the Office for National Statistics is setting the scene for where the housing association movement will be. Why not de-shackle the Housing Executive as well and allow it to bid like anyone else for the new build programme and reduce the housing association grant and make it more competitive for all developers to challenge to build new and affordable social housing.”
“I admire it that a man who has the disability that he suffers from champions disability and social and affordable housing in his constituency. <BR /> <BR />I remind Mr Bell of the figures that are being debated in the Chamber. The period 2007-2011 was a four-year term, and 2011-16 is a five-year term. You can work it all out, but I do not want to get fixated on figures; I just want to have a sensible debate here today about how we move forward and about the importance of delivering new solutions for housing in Northern Ireland. The Minister said that the Northern Ireland Housing Executive had the right and the power to build, but, unfortunately, at the time of the existence of the Housing Executive —”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank Alex Attwood, who certainly put to bed the nonsense about statistics and damned statistics across the Chamber. All Members had statistics to suit themselves, but the statistics here are as Alex Attwood stated. Yes, we can all play games around statistics. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to my colleague Andy Allen, who took some abuse from my left. It was pretty hot at times, but he held his own in determining that he works solidly on social housing in his constituency.”
“I thank you for that intervention. <BR /> <BR />Forgive me, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, for being a little bit parochial for one moment, as the Minister was. I would like to talk to the Minister as a fellow Lagan Valley representative. Minister, in our constituency there are 988 people in housing stress. There are 159 social houses being built in Lagan Valley. We must build more for the sake of those 829 people, and the many more across the Province. Fra McCann gave us the figure of 22,654 households being in housing stress. That just shows how important housing is. <BR /> <BR />Minister, housing is a plural, and you have the opportunity to give a massive boost if you are bold and brave enough to embrace new solutions that support people and offer them a home.”
“Perhaps the Minister can update the House on the progress of the long-awaited review of the Housing Executive.”
“It can be the catalyst to support inward investment in construction, infrastructure and employment and to build communities. Now is the time to look at the potential of pension schemes to finance housing programmes. <BR /> <BR />Nichola Mallon highlighted the cry from some DUP Members about there being financial constraints. There was certainly no difficulty in squandering over £1 billion on the renewable heat incentive. Just imagine how many homes that might have built.”
“Once again, it seems as though the Bank of Mum and Dad must rescue young families hoping to buy their home or pay rent. That is not an acceptable position. When we consider the prevalence of one-year tenancy agreements, it is hardly surprising that so many feel that their house is not their home. <BR /> <BR />There is a need for innovation in housing supply. We need more one-bedroom flats for older people and more two-bedroom houses with expandability. Again, the inflexible needs analysis needs to be modernised. Why can Northern Ireland not lead the way in exploring smart home technology that reduces crime, delivers energy-efficient outcomes and adapts to the needs of families and the disabled? <BR /> <BR />Housing should be backbone of local regeneration.”