Adrian Cochrane-Watson
South Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Member, my colleague on the Committee, for his intervention. You are quite right: strategically, we have failed, but the Ulster businessman has delivered, as you highlighted. The Ulster businessman has continued to deliver. <BR /> <BR />I will finish now. It has been an experience. I wish the renewables sector every success.”
“He has always been very friendly to me, and he has probably been let down by Amber Rudd moving the goalposts in Westminster and by the communication of different information. In June, the Minister made commitments based on the relevant information. However, what we have now is a renewables shambles.”
“Mr Speaker, in case I forget, I wish you every success. I believe that you will be back here on 9 May, but we will certainly miss you on the election trail in South Antrim. I wish you personally every success. <BR /> <BR />I came into the Chamber on 28 June.”
“I am sure that the officials will make it up as they go along, because they have been making it up since June. <BR /> <BR />I am sorry that I was an optimist. I am not an expert in renewables. Some people understand it, such as my colleague Paul.”
“A matter of weeks ago, we failed them on renewable heat incentives. We failed them when we gave commitments. In November, we failed them when we gave an understanding — I will not put it more strongly than that, although some might say that we "suggested" it — that the scheme would stay open to 31 March.”
“I also commend the Minister for her work since taking over the role. In discussions with representatives of Belfast International, they say to me that the biggest inhibitor to growth is not transport links but air passenger duty. Have there been any discussions between you and ministerial colleagues on APD?”
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“I thank the Member, my colleague on the Committee, for his intervention. You are quite right: strategically, we have failed, but the Ulster businessman has delivered, as you highlighted. The Ulster businessman has continued to deliver. <BR /> <BR />I will finish now. It has been an experience. I wish the renewables sector every success. I hope, genuinely, that whoever is here in the next mandate — I may or may not be here — will not abandon the sector. At this minute in time, there is a lot of frustration, and there is a lot of support, which is needed, to continue our investment in renewables and to move away, as others have said, from fossil fuels and dependence upon them. <BR /> <BR />Mr Speaker, I have wished you every success. I thank you for giving me the opportunity to make what may be my final contribution in this mandate.”
“I want to be here, to be optimistic, to deliver and to offer vision for the local economy. I believe that the Minister does as well, but we have failed, no matter how we dress it up.”
“I am sure that the officials will make it up as they go along, because they have been making it up since June. <BR /> <BR />I am sorry that I was an optimist. I am not an expert in renewables. Some people understand it, such as my colleague Paul. He has left the Committee, but I used to enjoy asking Paul, "What's this all about?", but he has moved on. Maybe I do not understand it fully yet, but I know this: we have failed. The Northern Ireland Executive have failed and will dress it up with all the achievements and targets that they have hit, but we have failed. For almost eight or nine months, I have sat in a Committee, and it has been like 'Jackanory'. I share Members' frustration. I missed the Chairman tonight, but I am sure that he aired his frustration, which I share.”
“A matter of weeks ago, we failed them on renewable heat incentives. We failed them when we gave commitments. In November, we failed them when we gave an understanding — I will not put it more strongly than that, although some might say that we "suggested" it — that the scheme would stay open to 31 March. We are failing them again tonight with the closure of the scheme to large-scale projects. There is to be some type of phoney consultation on small-scale inshore wind projects. It will be interesting to learn what we will consult about.”
“He has always been very friendly to me, and he has probably been let down by Amber Rudd moving the goalposts in Westminster and by the communication of different information. In June, the Minister made commitments based on the relevant information. However, what we have now is a renewables shambles. I believe that DETI officials make up the rules on their way over here: "What will we tell these boys today?". We hear differing stories and differing information. When we question them, we do not get a straight answer. I come from the world of business, and, if I were to transfer some of these experiences to my former family business, I would be bankrupt in three months. It would not be tolerated in the private sector. Decisions need to be made and honoured. <BR /> <BR />We have failed the renewables sector.”
“Mr Speaker, in case I forget, I wish you every success. I believe that you will be back here on 9 May, but we will certainly miss you on the election trail in South Antrim. I wish you personally every success. <BR /> <BR />I came into the Chamber on 28 June. I was honoured to replace Danny Kinahan and delighted to be given the challenge of sitting on the ETI Committee. I take this opportunity to thank the Chairman for the welcome and support that he gave me as a new member who probably did not appreciate the work and the scrutiny role of the Committee; indeed, I extend those thanks to all members of the Committee. <BR /> <BR />At my very first Committee meeting on, I think, 29 June, the issue of renewables and the NIRO was brought up. In a way, I feel sorry for the Minister.”
“I also commend the Minister for her work since taking over the role. In discussions with representatives of Belfast International, they say to me that the biggest inhibitor to growth is not transport links but air passenger duty. Have there been any discussions between you and ministerial colleagues on APD?”
“I welcome the fact that the Minister made reference to this summer. <BR /> <BR />Last week at Question Time, my party colleague raised with the Minister the issue of whether she will ensure that the position in England and Wales is monitored so that, in the event of any enhancements in the future, parity may remain. Hopefully, the Minister may be able to give us an assurance that this will be the case. I acknowledge that there will be a financial implication with this Bill, but it is a matter of fairness. Hopefully, this will leave those affected feeling more valued and less like the poor relations in the United Kingdom. I am glad that we are able to deliver some positive news through this Bill, and we will be supporting the Bill.”
“I thank the Minister for outlining the contents of the Bill. Clearly, it is required and is important for those affected by compulsory land acquisition. They now know that they will receive the same levels of compensation as their counterparts elsewhere in the United Kingdom in England and Wales. It is unfortunate that the anomaly means that the 10% top-up payment available in England and Wales does not yet apply. I welcome the initiative shown by my party colleague during his term as Minister for Regional Development in initiating the proposal to bring parity and the fact that the current Minister is continuing to progress the Bill. Major roadwork projects will commence, not least after last week's announcement on the A6, so it is important that we close the gap before that work gets under way.”
“I thank the Minister, first, for giving an overview of her decision to seek accelerated passage and, secondly, for how accessible she has made her office to date on any issue regarding the motion. I also welcome the comments that the Minister has made. She said that she would not seek accelerated passage unnecessarily and would seek it only if it was vital to many in the community. As she said, many in our community will benefit from what we will be talking about today in respect of the proposals for the A5 and A6 in particular. <BR /> <BR />My party has in the past been uncomfortable with accelerated passage, but today the Ulster Unionist Party will support the Minister. Hopefully, the benefits that are already available in England in Wales will be got by all in our community.”
“I thank the Minister for his answers so far. Minister, do you have any plans to meet, or have you met, the Prison Officers' Association on these issues?”
“On a point of order, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker.”
“I am passionate about that. Could you do that, Minister? Secondly, the question, Minister —”
“Do not let it drop because, in three or four years, when, hopefully, economic conditions will be a lot better, these young people will come out of these programmes highly qualified and highly skilled —”
“Minister, there are some issues in your statement that I very much welcome. First, I highlight the priorities set by Manufacturing NI: the cost of energy, which you have addressed, and the manufacturing strategy being at the heart of the economic strategy moving forward in the new Programme for Government. That is very welcome. <BR /> <BR />I have two questions for you, Minister. Following on from the previous question on the apprenticeship programme, I used to accredit the apprenticeship programme for Bombardier at both Interpoint and Queens Island, and I strongly urge you, if there is any influence on Michael Ryan and senior management, to re-establish that programme.”
“Minister, I agree with you about the commitment of the staff, leadership and senior management team of the trust. One of the concerns raised by senior staff and doctors at the ED was about what they termed the back end of the service, where people were being bed-blocked and care packages were not being put in place. They were looking at the availability of beds. As they highlighted, people were waiting on trolleys, but they were being treated; drugs were being administered and there were MRI scans and X-rays. However, there was still the wait time, which was all down to the back end, as they termed it, of the service.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does the Member agree with me that it is totally unacceptable that he is talking about job redundancies in businesses in south Down but that there will be no job redundancies in DETI? No one in DETI will be held to account through this investigation. The senior civil servants who have been mismanaged by the Minister will get off the hook.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The Department informed the Committee last week that it had had no consultation with the sector and did not know how many jobs and businesses were at risk. The Department does not have a clue about the sector. Does the Minister agree that that is totally unacceptable and shows a lack of leadership and vision in the Department?”
“In the longer term, we also need to give some clarity and certainty to the whole area of renewable energy. Does he have a plan to replace RHI and the NIRO, or is the fledging renewables sector in Northern Ireland going to be allowed to go to the wall? How are we going to meet the 2020 renewables target of 10%? Will the Minister recognise that DETI has made a mess of this issue? DETI has been shown to be incompetent and ignorant of business in Northern Ireland, and you, Minister, need to take responsibility because the buck stops with you. Minister, will you do the decent thing and consider your position?”
“If he is saying that the scheme was wide open to fraudulent activity, is that what we are now going to be told? The Ulster Unionist Party will not support the statutory rule; the situation has arisen because of incompetence and ignorance of this sector. If government sets the rules on something, the public expect those rules to be adhered to, not changed at the drop of a ministerial hat. <BR /> <BR />The Minister needs to take responsibility and sort it out. The original 31 March deadline for the sector should be reinstated and honoured. He needs to agree, through consultation with the industry groups such as the Federation of Master Builders, a phased winding-down period, which will allow businesses the opportunity to plan for the change in their revenue stream.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Minister also said last week that:”
“However, detail included in the autumn statement also indicated that the original allocated £860 million was to increase to £1·15 billion, but there have been no details as yet as to how that scheme would be reformed and a consultation is expected soon. So, will the Minister please explain why he is blaming Westminster, or is he just doing what the DUP's partner in Government, Sinn Féin, does so well, which is to blame the Brits? <BR /> <BR />A Fermanagh firm that I have been talking to, and which plans to install biomass boilers, is saying that it is currently struggling to compete with other UK-based manufacturers. They are receiving up to 5·6p per kilowatt RHI payment on similar boilers, yet the RHI tariff for Northern Ireland is 1·5p per kilowatt, which is less than a third, and the scheme is still open in GB.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention, and I agree with him. Of course, we knew that there would be a predicted spike on those applications that were trying to beat the change in tariff. Among the questions that the Minister must answer today are these: when did he first become aware that the scheme was massively oversubscribed and the money was running out? How did he and his Department get the figures so wrong? Did the scheme initially involve too many incentives? Why did he announce the sudden closure in a press release after 6.00 pm on a Friday evening? Last Tuesday, at Question Time, yet again he blamed someone else; it was the Chancellor of the Exchequer's fault for moving the goalposts. Again, in November, we heard nothing; but, last Tuesday, he stated:”
“At 6.02 pm on 5 February, a press release was issued in Minister Bell's name stating that the scheme had become massively oversubscribed and had to close almost immediately. Nothing happened between the middle of November, when the spike happened, and that Friday evening in February.”
“Minister Foster announced the extension of RHI to domestic customers on 3 October. That is the background. <BR /> <BR />Minister Bell took up office in May 2015. On 17 November last year, the Minister brought to the House an amendment to the regulations introducing a second tier of lower payments for small and medium biomass systems. The targets were clearly set for a period beginning on 18 November and ending on 31 March. That was a clear commitment to this sector. This led to a predictable and significant increase in applications in the run-up to the date of the new targets being introduced, which locked DETI into a commitment over many years. However, we heard nothing until the Friday before last.”
“What we have in front of us today is a story of failure, incompetence and ignorance within devolved Government for which there must be consequences. I agree entirely with the Committee Chair, Mr Patsy McGlone, who very clearly took us through the detail of the embarrassment we witnessed last Tuesday. <BR /> <BR />It is worth reflecting on how we got to where we are today. RHI is a UK Government scheme set up to encourage the uptake of renewable heat technologies through financial incentives. The UK Government expect RHI to contribute 12% by 2020. Our devolved Government, through the Programme for Government, set a target of 10%. The scheme was launched on 1 November through the non-domestic sector. In October 2012, the then Enterprise, Trade and Investment Minister Foster, introducing RHI through the non-domestic sector, said:”
“DETI's enterprise policy states that its focus is on:”
“Thank you for your answer to date, Minister. Have you got a commitment or an understanding in the financial programme that you have that the money to promote and highlight road safety and to educate the community will be ring-fenced so that that work can be carried on by the new Department?”
“Minister, thank you for your answers to date. Unfortunately, there is a long history of fish kill and pollution incidents in South Antrim, particularly in the Sixmilewater, and industrial sites have allegedly been the culprits. Have there been prosecutions, and has investment in the infrastructure, particularly in the industrial sites in the Mallusk area, been encouraged, supported and overseen by the Department?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer to the initial question. Does he believe that, as changes to apprenticeships alter the image of apprenticeship opportunities, that will then engage parents in the belief that apprenticeships are a positive means of getting their sons and daughters into the job market?”
“I thank the Minister for her response. However, many farmers will be sorely disappointed that there has been an abject failure by the Department to reduce its own administration costs. Previous targets, such as those contained in the 2007-2011 Programme for Government have now been abandoned. Does the Minister feel that it is acceptable that the total DARD administration bill is now over £45 million centrally in this financial year, as supplied by DFP, compared to a reduction of £5 million five years ago?”
“I apologise, Mr Deputy Speaker. I have been away all morning at a hospital appointment. I do not have a question.”
“Is this a topical question? Question number 2, Mr Deputy Speaker.”
“Will the deputy First Minister comment on that? It seems to me that it is now retaining delivery functions. Initially, the new Executive Office was to have more of a coordinating role. Why has that move taken place?”
“It is clear that the functions of the Executive Office have moved radically since they were first announced last March. It seems to me that it will now retain delivery functions and has moved away from the more coordinating role that was first envisaged.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Like others, I attended the joint Committee, and I fully endorse and support the work of InterTradeIreland and would be very supportive of any efforts to maintain and enhance its budget. <BR /> <BR />As outlined in the statement today, the establishment of the retail forum comes on the back of extensive surveying and research by NIIRTA and its partners. One of the main issues raised through that was the impact of rates and the instability that excessive rates bills can add to microbusinesses, particularly those in our town centres. Will the Minister work with his Finance and Personnel colleague to look at opportunities, through rates relief perhaps, to support SMEs or small businesses, particularly those in the retail sector in our town centres?”
“I appreciate that the volume of travellers is probably not there, but it would be a huge benefit to Belfast International if the volume was there and we could do that at Belfast before travel.”
“I welcome the Minister back from the United States. I welcome the statement. I am keen that the 2023 World Cup is brought to Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Tourism from sport is attractive to us all. <BR /> <BR />There is a huge imbalance between Dublin Airport and Belfast International, in my constituency, particularly in north Atlantic travel. It could be as much as 12:1, United being the only north Atlantic carrier out of the International. Is there any way that Tourism Ireland could promote the benefits of Belfast International and help you and others in attracting more inward travel? One aspect attractive to the traveller is that entry and customs can be cleared at Dublin Airport.”
“Back in 2011, my party stood on a manifesto of not introducing water charges. The previous Minister ensured that that did not take place. With its passing this evening, the Bill will make that a continued reality for the many households in Northern Ireland that would be fearful of additional costs being brought into the family home. The Minister has described these measures as necessary and sensible. I fully agree with those comments. As such, my party will be very supportive of the legislation. <BR /> <BR />I would like to finish by saying that I also believe that, moving forward, the Bill puts Northern Ireland Water on a sounder footing of good governance and openness. Maybe we have been critical of some of those aspects over the past number of years. I think that the legislation will help in moving forward with that.”
“I thank all of the stakeholders who came before the Committee and put forward very good arguments. As the Deputy Chair said, many of their views were taken on board. <BR /> <BR />Soft SuDS, in particular, has been described at length this evening. I share the support for that. I accompanied other Members in going to Wales. It was something that I knew very little about, but the trip highlighted to me how effective it can be in an urban, built-up area, as we witnessed.”
“My deputy Chief Whip just told me that I am allowed to speak for as long as I want on this, as it is legislation, but I thought that I had only three minutes. I will try to keep to less than three minutes, you will be pleased to hear. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Members who have spoken in the debate. The scrutiny of this piece of legislation, which enters its final hearing tonight, is the first that I have been involved in since entering the Assembly. The involvement and scrutiny of the Committee has been refreshing. At Consideration Stage, we brought forward amendments. The Minister was very open to those. They were debated and are included in what we see this evening. It has been a real example of how a scrutiny Committee should work. It has certainly been an example of effective scrutiny.”
“Can the Minister update the House on when he last met the Prison Officers' Association (POA) about staffing at Maghaberry? Does the Minister consider that Maghaberry provides a safe working environment for staff?”
“I thank the Minister for his response. He has made great play of reusing school premises, such as the old Lisnaskea High School site. Has his Department an equality-proofed policy? Can he assure the House that in the case of the Lisanelly Strule project the proceeds accruing from the sale of the sites of the schools moving to the Strule campus will be treated equally and that the taxpayer will be protected?”
“Thank you, Minister, for your responses to date. Are you convinced that the new proposed Department for the Economy will recognise the benefits of, and utilise, the skills barometer?”
“An awful lot of the good work that the service did was in education and raising awareness, and it did that through the media of television and radio and, on many occasions, when officers gave their own time to go into schools and meet community groups on a one-to-one basis. Sadly, an awful lot of that work has, due to operational needs, now been cut back. <BR /> <BR />I support the motion tabled by my colleague and the amendment tabled by the SDLP. I urge all those who were so pleased to welcome the fire officers in the Great Hall and get their photograph taken with them to support the men and women who are here today.”
“In my constituency, Ballyclare was in breach, and Carryduff, which, I believe, serves the Minister's constituency, was in breach at 9.12 am. I could go on. Is it acceptable, when we are looking at further cuts, that 19 local fire stations breached operational safety this morning? I inform the House that that is a good day. Gartan has shown me when 30 stations have breached. That is unacceptable. <BR /> <BR />I will also highlight some statistics brought to us today by the Fire Brigades Union, and let us not argue with them. Its injuries are up by 43 to 559, which is the highest in five years; rescues are up by 29 to 208; and, very sadly, fatalities are up by 15 to 46.”
“Something not touched on is that the reduction in training for these fine men and women could lead to a risk of corporate manslaughter. That is what we face through further possible cuts to the service. <BR /> <BR />When I joined the Fire and Rescue Service board, one of the most important tools for senior management was the Gartan system, which looks at operational availability. Is the House happy that 19 fire stations breached safe operational availability this morning? The DUP Member who moved the amendment rightly praised the men and women of Northland and Crescent Link fire stations: is he comfortable with the fact that, at 9.12 am today, those two stations were in breach, meaning that they did not have enough operational strength to meet the needs of his community?”
“In my early years, I was brought up by my grandfather, a retained firefighter for 30 years. I know the sacrifice that the men and women in the service make and the sacrifice that their families make, and I am humbled by them every day. I was honoured when, 18 months ago, former Minister Jim Wells made me a member of the Fire and Rescue Service board. I was part of the board that implemented some of the cuts — reluctantly. We went to the Department — the Chief Fire Officer then was Chris Kerr — and we said, "That is it. Enough is enough. Operationally, you are now going to be unsafe". Do not listen to my words; listen to the words of the current Interim Chief Fire Officer, Dale Ashford, who talked of the "devastating impact" and "unacceptable risk levels".”
“I thank the junior Minister for her response, but, given that Sir Anthony Hart has now stated that he is in favour of redress for victims of institutional abuse, does the First Minister not accept that that makes it untenable not to introduce similar provision via the HIA inquiry for victims of non-institutional abuse who fall outside the remit of the current process?”
“I join others in wishing the First Minister well.”