Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
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“I thank the Committee for its work and the Chairman for his comments. I can assure him that, after two years in this job, I have learnt how to say "mesothelioma" as well as "pneumoconiosis" and "semiquincentennial". That is something for others who take this job after me to look forward to. The Member has set out quite clearly the impact of the changes that we are going to make and the reasons for them, so I ask the House to support them today.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. The regulations are part of the annual uprating package. They increase the lump sum compensation that is payable by the scheme under the Mesothelioma, etc., Act (Northern Ireland) 2008. <BR /> <BR />As with the previous motions, we do this every year. It has the same benefits as the uprating order. The benefits have been increased in line with the rate of inflation — by 3·8% for the year 2026-27 — mirroring the percentage increase to the industrial injuries benefit in the main uprating order. I do not intend to go into the detail and history of the scheme; I have done that before. If anyone is interested in that, they can read the Hansard reports from previous years. <BR /> <BR />I ask that Members support the motion.”
“The uprating of our benefits in line with the consumer price index is something simple that we do every year, so I do not intend to detain the House for too long. We understand what the statutory rules do, why they are necessary, and why it is necessary for us to stay in line with the rest of the UK and ensure parity. Importantly, as a result of the uprating package, approximately £425·7 million more will be paid out by my Department to people in Northern Ireland on social security benefits and pensions. I am sure that that will be welcomed. We would not want to stay out of line with what people elsewhere in the country get. I therefore ask the Assembly to support the regulations.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to be clear that the Bill is good legislation that will benefit charities across Northern Ireland, but I fully respect and value the importance of Committee scrutiny. If we can improve the Bill, let us do that. I am happy to work with others. <BR /> <BR />I hope that I have dealt with the issues that have been raised by Members today. If there is anything that I have not picked up, l commit to writing to individual Members, and I will copy the Committee into that as well. I look forward to seeing the legislation move through the legislative process.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people. We need to have accountability, but, at the same time, we cannot have burdensome regulations on people that make it more difficult for them to do what they are doing. I certainly do not want to be in a position where we are putting people off. What we have in the legislation and in the regulations that we are bringing forward will be a massive help for people who are under a certain threshold in deciding whether to register at all. If they do register and want the benefits of being registered, there will be far fewer reporting requirements on them. Audit is another stage further, but I understand the concerns that have been raised around that.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill, I believe, strikes that balance. It strengthens oversight where needed, while reducing unnecessary burdens, particularly for smaller organisations. That is worth noting. Often, we think that what we do in this place just adds more bureaucracy, more form-filling and more regulation and makes it more difficult for charities to do what they want to do. However, today, we are reducing that administrative burden, which does not happen often. It has to be balanced with accountability, but it is very positive and will be welcomed by many charities.”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then. I will be happy to ensure that, before the Committee Stage begins, we provide that information to the Committee and that that is clarified. Apologies if anything from our end caused a misunderstanding on that point. <BR /> <BR />Lots of issues have been raised, but I am aware that this is the Second Stage. It is about the general principles. As we progress to the next stage, there is clear agreement across the Chamber on the importance of a strong, trusted charity sector and the need for regulation that protects the public and supports charities to do their work.”
“It is an additional step, but we are right to take our time to consider it and make sure that it is proportionate. <BR /> <BR />I confirm to the Member that the regulations that he talked about on accounting and reports will not be subject to the draft affirmative procedure. They will be subject to negative resolution, as they are technical in nature, but if he wants to explore that further during the Committee process, I will be happy to do that.”
“The Member also spoke about the official warning. I am more than happy for the Committee to properly examine and investigate what that would look like. However, we have the benefit of seeing what that is like and what it has done already in England and Wales. Over the course of a year, they have to issue around 40 such letters. That is 40 letters for in the region of 180,000 charities. We have about 7,500 charities in Northern Ireland, so you would expect to issue a very small number of letters. Oftentimes, as or before those are issued, some of the issues that caused those letters to be issued get tackled and sorted out. This is about giving us another step before you go to that full-on next phase of an inquiry or whatever else might come after it.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits. However, repeal of section 167 will mean that such institutions can continue to operate in or from Northern Ireland as they currently do, but they may choose to separately constitute as a Northern Ireland charity, should they judge that to be beneficial for them. It was very clear from the consultation responses that we received that that was the right way forward. <BR /> <BR />I also agree with what Andy Allen said about ensuring that we are appropriate and proportionate in the actions that we take. There is a battle, if you like, between flexibility and accountability, and it is right and proper that we do the work around that. I am happy to assist the Committee in that.”
“However, we will come back on some of the other ones. <BR /> <BR />There was a question about section 167. I simply make the point that that was never enacted in the first place. From many of our consultee responses, there was an understanding that, if section 167 was ever brought in, it would be ambiguous legally and create duplication, and it was strongly opposed. People felt that it would require major new infrastructure in return for a relatively insignificant benefit and that it could not deliver some of the perceived tax or funding benefits. Repeal was considered to be preferable, but, of course, those charities can continue operating as they do now, because the section in the legislation was never enacted. They can therefore continue to do what they are doing now.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to try to bring in some form of additional accountability". It will level that up with what is being done for trustees. Again, that is something that can be discussed further through the proper Committee process. <BR /> <BR />The Member talked about a reference in the legislation to removing "for Communities". This is to tidy up the 2008 Act. It already refers to Communities, so it is essentially a tidying-up action. Hopefully, that has addressed most of the points that she made.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker; that is much appreciated. I will address some of her other points. She raised concern about removal from employment. That is provided for in the 2008 Act, which enables that action to be taken. I draw Members' attention to the amendment that we propose to make at clause 4 on page 3:”
“That gives us enough flexibility to look at the provisions. I have no doubt, however, that, as an assiduous member of the Committee, Ms Armstrong will raise the issues at Committee Stage as well.”
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions. <BR /> <BR />I move on to Kellie Armstrong's contribution. As I said, this is about the general principles of the Bill. What does Kellie Armstrong do? She takes us straight to clause 3, and paragraph 4 of a proposed new section of the Charities Act to raise an issue about whether information will be provided by post. I assure the Member that all those issues will be properly addressed at Committee Stage, but I draw to her attention the fact that the legislation states that the information "may" be given by post rather than that it shall be given by post.”
“I agree with the Chairman's comments, and I assure him and the Committee that I will engage in good faith to ensure that we have the answers that we need to those questions. <BR /> <BR />I will respond to a few other queries that were raised. Mr Durkan asked a couple of questions, the first of which was about the processes around registration thresholds. I assure him that those matters are being taken forward and that we will have the regulations after the summer recess. They will come in two parts that we hope to put in place so that those who do not have to avail themselves of registration can apply for that from autumn 2026 and that we have deregistration from April 2027. The independent review made 93 recommendations of which, as Mr Durkan rightly points out, 18 are taken forward in the Bill.”
“A number of changes made by the legislation will help improve the regulatory framework for our charities in Northern Ireland, but it is right that the Committee takes time to examine them properly, and I welcome scrutiny of the issues, including how the Committee and the Assembly will oversee some of the issues that will arise from the legislative changes that we hope to make; how we can ensure that the legislation, especially the secondary legislation, is enacted in the right and proper way; and how we can make sure that the legislation does what we want it to do, which means making sure that there is no unnecessary duplication and that it is implemented in a clear and easily understandable way.”
“On those, it seems, we have clear agreement or at least enough agreement to get it to the next stage so that it can go into Committee. I assure him that I agree with many of the comments that have been made. I certainly welcome and want to see scrutiny.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank Members for their contributions to today's debate and for the constructive tone in which it has been conducted. I look forward to seeing the Bill progress. We have set a high bar, though. The legislation that the House passed most recently was the Sign Language Bill. After we passed that, there was unbridled joy in the Great Hall and great celebration. I do not know whether the Charities (Amendment) Bill will generate the same interest and levels of excitement out there, but let us try, anyway, to work together to make sure that we get the best legislation that we can. <BR /> <BR />I will address Members' comments. Mr Gildernew, as Chair of the Committee, was right to say that the debate is about the general principles of the Bill.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation. <BR /> <BR />Finally, the Bill removes provisions that have been found to be unworkable, providing clarity and certainty for organisations that are operating across borders and avoiding unnecessary duplication of regulation. This is a modest Bill in size, but a significant one in impact. It will reinforce public trust, modernise our regulatory framework and support a vibrant, confident and effective charity sector — a sector that will continue to deliver enormous social value across Northern Ireland. The Bill is something that we should all support, and I commend it to the Assembly.”
“Charities, particularly smaller, volunteer-led organisations, often operate with limited administrative capacity. Where we can simplify requirements without compromising transparency or accountability, it is right that we do so. That will allow organisations to focus their time, energy and resources on what matters most: delivering services and supporting communities. <BR /> <BR />The measures in the Bill are therefore practical and targeted. They will enhance the Charity Commission's ability to share information and intervene appropriately, including through proportionate tools such as official warnings. The measures close gaps that currently allow individuals to evade accountability, and they strengthen protections for charities and their beneficiaries.”
“The Bill will implement a focused package of its recommendations, alongside addressing practical issues that have arisen in operation. <BR /> <BR />At its core, the Bill has three clear aims. The first is to strengthen the Charity Commission's regulatory powers to ensure that it can act effectively and proportionately where concerns arise. The second is to enable the simplification and modernisation of accounting and reporting requirements, particularly for smaller charities. The third is to provide clarity in areas of legislative uncertainty, including on the position of organisations that operate across jurisdictions. In doing so, the Bill reflects the broader principle that regulations should support and protect the public interest without placing unnecessary burdens on the sector.”
“The Charities Act (Northern Ireland) 2008 established the foundations for that confidence. It created the Charity Commission for Northern Ireland as the independent regulator, set out a registration framework and provided powers to protect charitable assets and ensure accountability. As with any legislative framework, however, it must evolve in order to remain effective. The Bill is about ensuring that our regulatory system is robust, proportionate and fit for purpose in a modern context. It takes forward key recommendations from the independent review of charity regulation, the report of which was published in January 2022 and identified a number of areas in which the legislation could be strengthened, clarified and modernised.”
“That reach is profound, but so too is the responsibility that we carry to ensure that the environment in which charities operate enables them to thrive. Public trust and confidence are essential to that. Without that public trust and confidence, charitable giving is reduced, participation declines and the sector's ability to deliver vital services is undermined.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. Charities are vital to our communities. They provide essential support, strengthen social bonds and enrich daily life for thousands of people across Northern Ireland. Throughout periods of uncertainty and challenge, the community and voluntary sector has stepped forward consistently and compassionately to support those who are most in need. Across the Chamber, many of us will have direct experience of that contribution, be it through volunteering, governance or simply witnessing the difference that charities make to people's lives. Many more of us and those whom we represent are beneficiaries of their work, be it support for health, children and young people, animal welfare, sport, human rights, environmental protection or much more.”
“I recognise that the Member recognises that this is a good news story, that it is a start and that is part of the overall package that I am bringing in to make sure that we do what we can with what we have to deal with the housing crisis that we face in Northern Ireland.”
“I hope that that is welcome. <BR /> <BR />I understand the Member's concerns about a genuine 20% reduction. We will use a number of measures to ensure that we have an accurate forecast of the market rent in those areas. Further details on that can be found as part of the policy development process on the Department's website. I am sure that that can be sent directly to the Member so that he can see. <BR /> <BR />I want to make sure that the scheme is fair and that there is a genuine 20% discount for those who need it. Additionally, that is why there will be a limit on increases to a cap of the consumer prices index (CPI) plus 1% up to a maximum of 5%. That should be welcomed.”
“My present to you is 20 affordable homes on the Niblock Road in Antrim.”
“First of all, on behalf of the whole House, I am sure, I wish you a very happy birthday, Mr Deputy Speaker.”
“That is something new that is being tried for the scheme and will be welcome, as it will not serve as a barrier to those who would like to access the scheme but for whom a deposit might be a concern. It gives them a few months to build up a deposit, and that should be welcomed.”
“I am grateful to the Member. I can confirm to her that there will be 20 new homes in her constituency on the Niblock Road in Antrim. They will be five-person, three-bedroom homes, which will help families there that are struggling. <BR /> <BR />The Member raises an important point about deposits. They can be out of reach for many people who cannot access the private rental sector for that reason, especially with average rents now being over £1,000 per month in Northern Ireland. If someone is asked for a deposit of one, two or three months, that could be a substantial amount. That is why, under the scheme, there will be a deposit builder in place so that, over a period of months, families can contribute to the required deposit.”
“I am not just sitting here asking for more money. Yes, I would love that, but I have also taken the initiative to think how we can make the money that we have go further. That is why we are looking at the housing association grant. That has been changed so that housing associations can stretch that and do a little more, and, by doing so, we can build more homes. That is why we are also looking at the design guides. How can we make it more effective for us to build homes? How can we make it cheaper for us to build homes, while still at a high standard, by taking out anything that is unnecessary. This is one part of the overall puzzle as we seek to improve housing supply. I hope that the Member recognises the steps that have been taken and welcomes the fact that we have got more homes for Newry.”
“I am still making that case to Executive colleagues. I hope that that can be achieved, because housing is one of the most foundational and fundamental things, and that is why I put in that bid.”
“We are going to ramp it up and achieve things that will be of benefit to the people in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />We also need to do what I outlined in my statement: make sure that we have more social homes. That is why I want to see a Budget in place that allows us to proceed and meet the targets that have been set in the Programme for Government.”
“First, I would have thought that he might have liked to welcome the fact that, in the first phase, we will be delivering an additional 18 homes in his Newry and Armagh constituency. That will help 18 families or individuals who are hard pressed, cannot get to the right position on the social housing waiting list or cannot afford homes in the private rental market. This helps; it makes a difference. They are small numbers — yes — but we want to ramp it up. It is important that we acknowledge that this has never been tried before. I came into office and said, "I want to push this forward". We now have homes being built, and, within a few weeks, applications will be made for homes that have already been constructed. Let us celebrate that and say, "We've tried something new. It's working. It's making a difference".”
“I want to make sure that this programme will also be available to low-income households that need support.”
“I know that this is becoming a common theme: there are areas that have been successful in this round and others that have not. However, I want to make it clear that I am determined that this will be available everywhere in Northern Ireland. I wanted to get it out as quickly as we could, and we found the available sites. I commit to him that we will do everything that we can to make sure that the Causeway Coast and Glens area is included in the next tranches, as we expand the programme. I am well aware of, and have been working on, the issues that are specific to his constituency. We are aware of the impact that holiday homes are having, and work on that is ongoing through the housing supply strategy. I know about the housing need in his constituency. That is why we will continue to build more social homes.”
“Yes, absolutely. Housing associations are unable to be involved in this sort of work, because current private tenancy legislation excludes housing associations from owning properties that are let as any form of private rental. Therefore, we are limited in how we can use financial transactions capital. This is a new and different way to use it, and one that will be able to deliver results. I have significantly ramped up the amount of FTC that the Department is using, particularly across housing. Changes to how FTC can be used are coming, and I want to explore the use of FTC across all areas of the Department. I want to get as much grant money as I can. I want to make sure that it goes as far as it can. I want to look at where else we can use FTC. This is one way in which we can use it, and that is why we are using it in this way.”
“I want to see it ramped up, and, yes, I want to see more homes in Fermanagh as well.”
“Unfortunately, not as part of the 300 homes. I do not think that we are going to be in a position to do that. Apologies, again, to Deborah on that one. I do not think that I have ever had questions on a statement where nearly every Member from Fermanagh and South Tyrone has asked me a question. It is unlikely, at this stage, that Fermanagh will be included in the current 300. However, as I have made very clear — I hope that the message has gone out very simply today — I want to see this programme ramped up. This is new and innovative. We are doing something different. It does not come at any cost to the social housing development programme or the Northern Ireland Executive Budget. We underutilise financial transactions capital, and this is an example of how we can use tens of millions of pounds more.”
“That is progressing, and I hope to have an update towards September so that we can make sure that we progress with that and make it easier and more straightforward to build social homes.”
“Absolutely. These homes will be constructed to the design guide plus, if you like. They will be the same as social homes, however, they will have a turnkey finish. I know that that will be very welcome so that people can move straight in. They are being finished to a very high standard because I understand that we want to target the homes towards people who will be struggling a little. Perhaps they will be struggling to pay full market rent, and we want to make sure that the houses are ready for them to move into. That will be the condition of the stock, and the standard to which they will be built will align with the design guide. <BR /> <BR />I think that there are changes that can be made to the design guide. Housing associations are very keen that we look at that.”
“At the same time, we are going to be looking at the policy to make sure that this can be ramped up and we can have even more in the construction pipeline after that.”
“I am grateful for the Member's question, and we will certainly do everything that we can to get as many homes as possible in new areas that have not been mentioned yet, as I said in response to Cheryl Brownlee. <BR /> <BR />On the question of when the homes will be available, as I said, homes in Dungannon are going to be ready within the next few weeks. In the other phases, homes in Craigavon will be ready in autumn 2026, then Newry and Lisburn in the spring of next year. There will be further allocations in 2027 in Londonderry, Craigavon and Antrim. We are seeing houses being built already, and they will soon be allocated. These are not homes that are in the pipeline and will be available somewhere down the line. Some of them will be available very shortly, and others are in construction.”
“Yes, absolutely. I want to make sure that this is expanded and that we have substantial numbers. I believe that this is innovative and can make a real difference. Although the 300 homes will be very welcome to those who are going to get them, we need to see many, many more. I want this to become a sizable proportion of our housing offering in Northern Ireland, so my team will be doing everything that it can to ramp this up. I look forward to many, many of these homes being made available in East Antrim as well.”
“We are doing everything that we can to make progress. I hope that more homes in the Member's constituency and my constituency will be announced in further rounds.”
“I tasked the former chief executive of the Housing Executive, who has now left her post and is in another role, with making sure that, if and when those powers are made available, the Housing Executive is ready. There is a significant investment need in current Housing Executive properties. That is to where some of the borrowing powers will go. <BR /> <BR />I also want to make sure that we build more homes. Yes, we need to make sure that we improve the standard of our existing stock, but we need to start building more homes as well. Overall, we have been trying to increase the number of houses in Northern Ireland. We are looking at the grant rate and the design guide so that we can make our current housing grant go further. It is also why we are looking at land, instead of just grant, and at intermediate rent.”
“I hope that I can give the Member some comfort today. Although we do not have any announcements for her constituency today — I share her frustration in that regard for my constituency — we are looking to develop and ramp up the scheme. I have given very clear instructions about my wanting to see that happen. By next March, we will have a plan for how we can significantly ramp up the scheme. It is part of the housing supply strategy action plan, which is now with the Executive. I hope that Executive colleagues will support me with that. <BR /> <BR />We have made more progress on Housing Executive borrowing than we ever have done before, and I believe that we can make a breakthrough. While we are waiting for that, however, I have asked for work to continue so that, when we access those borrowing powers, we are in a position to start.”
“There will be some for whom social housing is the best option, while there will be others for whom the private market is still best. We are trying to target those in the middle who are struggling to access either. I think that that will come to fruition as the programme is rolled out.”
“Compared with the local open market rent in that area, rates will initially be set at a discount of 20% . The Member is right to ask how we can ensure that those homes are protected. That is why, for the programme, the increase is subject to a cap of CPI plus 1%, up to a maximum of 5%. The intention is to ensure that tenants are not exposed to the financial shock of a larger rent increase and also to ensure that their landlords secure the revenue necessary to maintain the homes to the very high standards to which they will be constructed. I hope that that provides the Member with some reassurance. <BR /> <BR />We want to make sure that the programme is used by those who need it most. It is not a scheme for everybody.”