Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“It falls to us all to be worthy of that sacrifice. We must stand firm for peace, defend democracy and ensure that, even in the darkest of times, we never forget the cost paid for the world, the peace and the freedom that we so often take for granted.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future. It is about ensuring that the sacrifice of those young men who gave everything that they had and that they might have become was not in vain. Their legacy lives on in the freedoms that we enjoy, the values that we uphold and the choices that we make as a society.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war. Another was Robert Hillen, who, aged just 20, lost his life on the first day of the Somme. He was my great-grandmother Margaret's brother. The 36th (Ulster) Division and so many others suffered so many thousands of casualties on that first day. <BR /> <BR />At a time when the world remains uncertain and when freedom cannot be taken for granted, we are reminded that the security that we enjoy today was secured through the dedication and bravery of others.”
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country. They have stood against tyranny, defended democracy, provided humanitarian aid in times of crisis and represented the very best of this place. Many of the men — the boys — who fought at the Somme were ordinary sons, fathers, brothers and friends: tens of thousands of ordinary men and boys who lived through a truly extraordinary thing. They fought for our freedoms. They fought against aggression. They fought, and many, many died, in the defence of others. Such courage and sacrifice deserve not only our gratitude but our enduring support.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage. I engaged with the Prime Minister this morning to ensure full commitment to full and urgent cooperation with the Home Office to see the status of that individual and, indeed, what information it may hold about him. <BR /> <BR />My message is simple: there can be no excuses and no tolerance of such violence. I know that emotions are running high, and I know that there is anger and concern across the community, but I urge everyone to remain calm, to allow the police to carry out their investigation and for people to establish the full facts.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister. I made it clear that, at a time when people are understandably anxious and concerned and are understandably demanding answers, we must have very clear communication with the public. There must be the giving of as much information as possible. Clear, timely and transparent communication is essential to establish the facts but also to address any misinformation or rumour. We also need to be very clear that, no matter how potentially uncomfortable it is for some, the full truth must be made public.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack. Today, our thoughts, prayers and deepest concerns are with that victim and his loved ones, but they are also with the local community and those who witnessed what happened at first hand. I have no doubt that they are deeply shaken today. I pay tribute to the bravery of those who stepped forward to intervene in particularly difficult and dangerous circumstances. <BR /> <BR />What happened last night was not simply a criminal act; it was an assault on the very values that bind us together as a society.”
“There are many different elements, and I feel incredibly passionate about the issue. <BR /> <BR />I did not go to a grammar school; I went to an excellent non-grammar school, Markethill High School. I want every child, regardless of the school they go to —grammar or non-grammar — to achieve, get their qualifications and change their lives for the better. Economic inactivity does not do that. You are absolutely right: they are big issues that will not be resolved by simply one aspect. All of the Departments must work together.”
“Unfortunately, economic inactivity goes well beyond stop-start government. It is a community issue. It can be a family issue. There can be long-term transgenerational unemployment and economic inactivity. It can be to do with poverty, lack of ambition and educational underachievement.”
“First, we have to recognise that the Northern Ireland economy is an economy transformed. There is no doubt about that. Even when I graduated from Queen's University as a young lawyer in the early 2000s, your options were somewhat limited. To get into some of the bigger companies, you would have had to go to London. Today, we have Citigroup. I recently had a meeting with Bank of America. It is going to create up to 350 jobs here in Northern Ireland by the end of the year. Given the advancements in back-office services, professional services, cybersecurity, research and innovation and advanced manufacturing, we have really transformed our economy. <BR /> <BR />The Member is absolutely right: economic inactivity and productivity are two significant issues that we need to tackle.”
“It is about trying to work on an agreed Programme for Government (PFG) for the betterment of the people whom we serve. As I have said, I look to the future. It is really sad that some people are looking to the past. With an election coming up, this is all about landing blows and bringing people down, when what we really need to do is to work together for everyone in Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for her question. We all know that we want this place to work, and we want it to work better. The DUP has, of course, set out its stall on a number of areas where, we believe, that should and could be the case. Real partnership working comes from relationships. As I stand here, I am a little bit disappointed and sad about what I have just witnessed across the Chamber, because that is not partnership working. When I stood in the Chamber on the very first day that I took up this post, I said that it is about recognising that we have differences, that we are from different backgrounds and that we have different aspirations. However, you can only force partnership working to some extent. Partnership working must be based on genuine respect.”
“— and getting Northern Ireland going. <BR /> <BR />I condemn all terrorism. I have said that very clearly. It is all about distraction and deflection, and everybody can see through it.”
“I wish that you could; I wish that your party leader could; I wish that your colleagues could. I will say this: it is shameful that, as I stand here, people watching today see this display, which is a really blatant attempt to attack me and to bring me down. I look to the future. I look to the positivity of the future. I look to working in partnership and driving forward our Programme for Government, because what matters to people is health, education, building our economy —”
“Again, that is absolutely pathetic. A blind man on a galloping horse can see what Sinn Féin is all about. In past weeks, it has been all about repeatedly attacking me. I have put on the record my determination to move forward, to look to the future, to champion Northern Ireland and to support people from all communities. It is really sad that you have decided to come to the Chamber and try to drag this down into what is, very clearly, a personal attack on me. <BR /> <BR />Let me repeat: all terrorism was wrong. Your terrorism was wrong. Your colleagues' terrorism was wrong. Terrorism, be it from the loyalist side, the republican side or wherever, was wrong. There was never any justification. There was always an alternative. I can say that clearly.”
“I have always been absolutely clear about where I stand on terrorism, paramilitarism and thuggery. I say it without reservation and can do so openly and honestly, because I believe in the future of this place. While Members on the other side of the House want to look back, I believe in building a better Northern Ireland for everyone in Northern Ireland, regardless of the community that they come from. I will work with people who have a past to try to build a future for them, provided that they can say, honestly and with hand on heart, "What happened in the past was wrong. There was always an alternative", and we will then move forward together. Shame on you. One person here let themselves down; it was not me.”
“Here we have, once again, personal attacks being directed at me. Would the Member call out her children and the children of her colleagues? To the Member, who was convicted of IRA criminal activity, I say this: I hope that when you look at your colleagues to your left and right on your side of the House — people who were members of the IRA, an organisation that killed people, carried out punishment beatings on children, killed women, planted bombs that killed innocent civilians and shot people in the back from the darkness of the night — you call them out. Calling out someone for the alleged actions of their father, which you have done before, despite your own actions, is disgraceful. <BR /> <BR />To the people who are watching us, I say that I stand on my own two feet.”
“I will reiterate what I said earlier. What we hear from Sinn Féin when it comes to budgetary issues is, "Blame it on the Brits", but, when it comes to everything else, we hear, "Blame it on the DUP; blame it on Emma Little-Pengelly". We have all heard it. Over past weeks, we have seen coordinated posts from Sinn Féin, trying to elbow my name into every criticism that it puts across. Do you know what? I have absolutely no reservation about this and will say it again, because there is no ambiguity about it: I stand against thuggery; I stand against intimidation; I stand against sectarianism and racism; and I stand against terrorism. I say this to the Member: if all the members of your party could do the same, we would be in a much better position.”
“That is absolutely pathetic point-scoring. In reality, I have been clear on every occasion that, without reservation, I stand against thuggery; I stand against sectarianism; I stand against racism; I stand against paramilitarism; and I stand against terrorism. Unfortunately, you do not have to look very far around you to find others who cannot be as clear as I am being. I say this to the House: I will take no criticism that I have been, in any way, ambiguous. I condemn, without reservation, any criminality, any thuggery and any intimidation. Ask your colleagues whether they can do the same.”
“<BR /> <BR />Shame on you to use that volatile situation to politically point-score when elected representatives from the DUP were there, on the ground, trying to ensure that the protest remained peaceful. The DUP has always been more than clear: we stand against thuggery, we stand against paramilitarism, we stand against terrorism and we stand for the rule of law. It was not easy for the public representatives to be there in very difficult circumstances, but violence was avoided, and I say well done to those who worked hard to ensure that that was the outcome.”
“It is shameful that you stand in this place and spin a narrative on the basis of a handful of photographs when people are telling you what happened on the ground. The protest was happening. The situation was volatile. Elected representatives from the DUP, the Ulster Unionist Party and the TUV were on the ground, including Carla Lockhart, Diane Forsythe and Jonathan Buckley. They were there to de-escalate the situation. That is why I asked you to listen to the Member's statement. The photographs that you are referring to show Carla Lockhart standing, not on her own but with a line of public representatives, holding the line, calming things down, so it is very easy for you to criticise.”
“The situation in Scarva was an incredibly challenging one. Elected representatives, including from the DUP, and the MP for Upper Bann, Carla Lockhart, were in Scarva and stepped up, trying to de-escalate the situation and liaising with the PSNI to resolve issues before they gave rise to violence. That is leadership. That is not easy, and it is, of course, much easier for people to sit on the sidelines and criticise, based on a handful of photographs. If he was not there and did not see what happened, I suggest that the Member listens to the Member's statement that my colleague from South Down Diane Forsythe made this morning about the situation on the ground. The public representatives from the DUP were there to de-escalate the situation and support a peaceful resolution at a peaceful protest.”
“We're going to do everything that we can." However, we need to build credibility with the UK Government and the Treasury in order to ask them for the much-needed support because, if we set a Budget and try to make up that shortfall, public services will be utterly devastated in this financial year, and that is not something that I am prepared to do at this stage.”
“The shortfall in the Budget this year is at least £1 billion, and you can try to find that in only two ways — by slashing public services or raising £1 billion in revenue in this financial year. Each of those options would be devastating to the people whom we serve. That is why, as I have often said, I do not subscribe to begging-bowl politics. This is about a partnership with the Treasury and the UK Government, wherein we meet them halfway, saying, "We are going to be proper custodians of public funds. We're going to drive inefficiency and waste out of our system.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Member's point goes much wider than just that issue; it goes to everything that we do. I have said at the Executive many times that every Department should be doing a line-by-line assessment of its budget and making sure that the money that we have is being used in the best possible way. We do not have the luxury of having waste, inefficiency and duplication. We must get it right. It is not just about how much money we receive but how we use that money.”
“The Executive Office takes seriously the cost of segregation. I have been a special adviser or a Minister in this Department for almost 20 years. In that time, one of the policy areas that I have worked on is Together: Building a United Community (T:BUC). It is not just about taking down the physical structures of division — for example, we had a signature project relating to the so-called peace walls — but about breaking down the barriers in people's minds and hearts. There have been hugely successful projects, including our Urban Villages initiative and T:BUC camps. Well in excess of 20,000 young people have been through those camps. They bring people together. Of course, it is not just a single approach. We need to address the issue across the piece, and I am fully committed to doing so.”
“I do not want to be in a situation where we can spend only 45%, for example, of the allocation until July, but every Member needs to be aware of what would happen if a Budget were set with £1 billion-plus missing from what is required and assessed to be required to run our public services.”
“Thank you. Again, it is an exceptionally difficult issue. I do not think that anyone around the Executive table does not want to have an agreed Budget. However, we have to weigh up the implications of agreeing a Budget that would be woefully inadequate to support front-line services. The moment such a Budget was agreed, accounting officers in Health, Education, Justice — every Department — would be telling Ministers that they could not spend what is required on vital public services. The impact of that on ordinary working families would be catastrophic, and it is not something that I am prepared to stand over. Of course, the current system is also inadequate.”
“I will continue to lobby the UK Government to provide more support and help to our hard-working families, but, of course, again, our Departments must do everything that they can to use the money that they get in the best possible way to support those families.”
“There is no doubt that that proposal has been welcomed by many people, but it goes only a small way towards supporting hard-pressed families. This is the reality that we face: the median income is lower in Northern Ireland than it is anywhere else across the UK. That means that our families, including working families, are most impacted by a rise in energy costs, for example, or any increase in bills. We must recognise that. <BR /> <BR />I will always have the backs of hard-working families. We recognise the pressures that they are under. The increases in childcare costs, energy bills and the cost of the petrol or diesel that they need to put into their cars to get to the places that they need to go are hitting families hard, hard, hard, and we need to be there to support them.”
“We believe that the current allocation does not reflect our service pressures. Our focus remains on securing a fair, sustainable settlement while considering ongoing cost-of-living pressures.”
“We have written to the Prime Minister outlining the scale of the pressures on public finances and the implications for service delivery. The Secretary of State responded on 28 April on the Prime Minister’s behalf, reaffirming his view that funding is sufficient overall. However, our view is that the current fiscal position is unsustainable and that more should and could be done. We have sought a meeting with the Secretary of State to discuss the issues further, and, of course, we have asked for an urgent meeting with the Prime Minister as well. <BR /> <BR />The Finance Minister continues to engage with the UK Government to underline the scale of the Executive’s financial challenges and to seek additional support to help to stabilise public finances. The Executive are united on this.”
“We felt that that was not far enough back, so we went back to 2011, and we have been advised objectively by officials that that is the date on which a legitimate expectation could first have been raised. That is further back than any other jurisdiction, as far as I am aware. While it is, of course, a difficult issue, we have tried to be as generous as we can while prioritising, undoubtedly, those who have needs right now and ensuring that they get the most support possible.”
“First, I thank all of the victims and survivors who have campaigned so hard for the inquiry and the redress scheme. Many of those people, as the Member has highlighted, are no longer with us and will not get the benefit of the scheme. Those who are will, and that is why the scheme is set up in the way that it is. It does not deal entirely with posthumous claims. It is too late for those who, sadly, have passed away to get payments in acknowledgement for what they suffered. Some of their family members will be able to apply for that acknowledgement payment. <BR /> <BR />We carefully considered the issue in the Executive Office. We were advised about what happened in other jurisdictions. In the Republic of Ireland, for example, the posthumous date is 2021.”
“If you go through a GP to get that support, you are likely to be waiting for a sustained period, sadly, unless you are at absolute crisis point. That is why victims and survivors' groups are seeing a significant increase in demand. From talking to some of the groups, I know that demand has increased by as much as 30% to 40% from people applying to some of those schemes. <BR /> <BR />There is a need there. We have always fought hard to protect the budget for victims and survivors from reductions or cuts elsewhere, but the reality is that, with rising costs, that budget is getting more and more squeezed. That is why I have been having a series of discussions to see what we can do, not just to work with the Health Department but, being realistic, how we can get additional resource to victims and survivors' groups.”
“I absolutely recognise that it is challenging for our mainstream health service to pick that up. At the moment, the services are not fit for purpose to get people the help and support that they need when they need it. The waiting lists are too long. I know that the Health Minister is looking particularly at that issue. It is part of the challenge that we face. If somebody is going through an application process in which they have to go through their experience again, that can be deeply re-traumatising, understandably so. That is even more the case when, often, they are trying to articulate the impact of that event on the mental health trauma and post-traumatic stress that they are going through. When they are at that point, they need that help almost immediately.”
“If you were a member of a paramilitary organisation or if you have justified the behaviour of paramilitary organisations or unlawful behaviour, wherever that comes from, that is simply wrong. People should step forward and try to give that help, support, truth and justice to the victims who have suffered the most.”
“I have always made it clear that, no matter what the circumstance, I will always stand on the side of victims. Victims and survivors across Northern Ireland, including those whom the Member has referenced, have been denied justice for much too long. I speak to many victims and survivors, including many victims of terrorist organisations across Northern Ireland, who have never had justice. The hurt that they felt at the time of their loved one's murder is just as acute today. The continued denial of truth and justice to those victims continues to cause that pain. <BR /> <BR />The Member referenced the state, but I would say more than that: everybody has a responsibility to step forward.”
“I am acutely aware that, when we created the historical institutional abuse inquiry mechanisms and structures, there was support for people going through that. It was a trauma-informed approach. There was mental health and counselling support throughout that process. However, we do not have that for many of the issues in relation to the legacy of the Troubles. That needs to be addressed, because that pressure is now being put on victims and survivors' groups. I commit to doing everything that I can to see whether we can get that much-needed additional resource to those groups. I recognise that they are looking at unprecedented demand and pressure because of this really important issue.”
“I thank the Member for Mid Ulster for that important question. He is a great advocate for the victims and survivors' sector, particularly on this issue. There is not a week that goes by in which he does not raise the issue with me. He recognises the huge demand that there is on victims and survivors' groups, particularly in relation to mental health and support. More than that, I know that he cares deeply about what victims and survivors are going through at the moment. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that key initiatives such as the pension for severely injured victims, what is happening in the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery (ICRIR) and the very public conversation about legacy legislation are all having a huge impact on victims and survivors, particularly in relation to their mental health.”
“Whilst the draft Budget is still to be formally agreed, we have asked officials to explore options to enable the provision of further support.”
“The provision of funding for victims and survivors' groups remains a key element of the Executive strategy for victims and survivors. We are committed to ensuring that victims and survivors receive the support that they need. We also recognise and greatly value the vital role that those groups play in delivering essential support in our communities. Through the Victims and Survivors Service, the Department funds 38 groups across all programme areas, ensuring that services are delivered where they are most needed. In the previous financial year, a total of £12 million was awarded to those groups. However, we are aware of the pressure that those groups are under and that they are seeking additional funding in the current year due to an increase in demand.”
“She can introduce a trade union Bill if she wishes, but do not use important issues such as neonatal care to manipulate anybody.”
“It is also clear that there is not a single business in Northern Ireland that supports the Minister's proposals. <BR /> <BR />There are many questions that the Minister cannot answer. She says that everything will go into a code of conduct. That code of conduct has not even been started, never mind being available for us to look at. I advise the Member to look at some of the detailed proposals, and I say this to the Minister for the Economy: if you want to introduce clauses on neonatal care, do so. Put them in a separate piece of legislation, and I promise the House today that I will clear it by urgent procedure so that it can come to the Chamber and get going. The Minister knows that there is no consensus on some of the clauses.”
“Since receiving the Bill, I have taken time to go through it, line by line and clause by clause. Last week, I had a useful meeting on it with officials from the Department for the Economy. It is absolutely clear that Members across the House support a number of things in the Bill, such as neonatal parental leave. However, it is absolutely wrong for some in Sinn Féin and on the Benches opposite to use the issues on which, they know, there is consensus to try to bully and bounce the DUP, and me in particular, into supporting other ideas in the Bill that are, frankly, half-baked. For example, the clauses on trade union access are the most aggressive and expansionist not just across the UK, Ireland and the European Union but across the globe. The Minister had to go to New Zealand to find such a regime to put forward.”
“We must step up to the plate, step forward, do what we can and be responsible. We cannot simply just blame it on the Brits.”
“Absolutely. That is such an important issue and goes to the heart of the fact that we in Northern Ireland are the custodians of each Department. I have often said that it is not just about how much money we get; it is about what we do with it. People out there are really frustrated when they see some political parties and Ministers constantly blaming problems on the Brits, the Brits, the Brits. They want us to step up and take some responsibility. That means driving efficiency and effectiveness in all Departments. It also means driving down waste where it occurs. There is still too much waste in our system. We do not have the finances or resources available to facilitate any waste or inefficiency in our system. The Member is absolutely correct. I know that she feels strongly about the issue.”
“Members can be assured of our commitment to making devolution work. We have an agreed Programme for Government and have committed over £230 million pounds over the next five years to a range of innovative projects to support and drive transformation across our public services. It will make a real difference, but much more needs to be done. The reality is that the current funding package for Northern Ireland does not match the scale of the challenges facing our public services. Our firm view is that the current fiscal position is unsustainable and that Westminster can and should do more. We have presented a case directly to the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister and will continue to make the strongest possible case for a funding settlement that reflects local needs and supports the sustainable delivery of public services.”
“I am always happy to welcome the Finance Minister to Lisburn, for example, where there are great opportunities to put more public-sector jobs in the city centre to support it. <BR /> <BR />We have to be realistic, however. People's behaviour and the way that they shop have changed, and our high street needs to change to keep pace with that. It has not done so thus far, but support from government, Departments and elected representatives will be critical in making sure that we can create the new, re-envisaged and fit-for-purpose high streets of the future.”
“The Member is absolutely right, but it is important that we do not punish success. The towns and villages that are doing well have put in a huge amount of effort, but there is no doubt that they still require additional support. The way that we shop is changing — we are all guilty of it — and that is having an impact. Businesses on the high street are often disadvantaged because they pay for rent, rates, electricity and everything else, while online businesses do not have those overheads. <BR /> <BR />It is really important that we start to look at what the high streets of the future will look like. That is about much more integration. For example, I would like to see the Department of Finance looking at public-sector estates to see what support it can give to our towns.”