Daniel McCrossan
West Tyrone · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Member for giving way. She has raised some points of interest. Aside from the Bill at hand, the Department of Finance currently collects rates from property owners across Northern Ireland. I have found that there can be difficulties with that when properties have been lying vacant for a significant period.”
“That applies in particular to those who have been land-banking over a period of time — that happens everywhere, unfortunately — with the hope that the big cash cow will be coming and, ultimately, they will be relieved of their responsibility to maintain, look after and enhance the landscape in a town or village by spending the necessary f…”
“As is often the case when we speak in the House, it may be that some ratepayers or members of the public will take it as a given that the Bill will be the silver bullet that will resolve the dilapidation issues in towns. Depending on which area you are in, the scale is very different.”
“We need to be creative in how we can put the Bill to task. <BR /> <BR />Certainly, as I have said, it is good policy. I have no question that the Bill is well intended.”
“<BR /> <BR />Addressing dilapidation is not simply a matter for local government in isolation. The responsibility lies with the Executive as a whole. The Executive have had their eyes closed to this matter for too long, and many of our buildings have deteriorated significantly across council areas over a long period.”
“That encourages private investment, and there is natural enhancement from those investors. However, in areas that lag behind because of economic decline, underinvestment and general deprivation, many towns and cities can quickly become the poor cousin.”
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“I thank the Member for giving way. She has raised some points of interest. Aside from the Bill at hand, the Department of Finance currently collects rates from property owners across Northern Ireland. I have found that there can be difficulties with that when properties have been lying vacant for a significant period. Two such properties in my constituency were left to two family members. The houses, which had been very valuable properties, were left in a terrible state. Rates have not been collected on either property for the past 10 years. Surely there could be a mechanism to incentivise action to be taken by the Department of Finance to get people to look after those properties; otherwise, they would be repossessed. Would your party consider a specific increase in the rates burden of people who deliberately let properties lie vacant?”
“It is important that we have some record of and can closely monitor the level of dereliction and dilapidation that exists so that we know the scale of the problem that we face. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to engage and to continue engaging on the issue. The Bill could be positive, but, at the minute, it falls short and more needs to be done. I am happy to support the Minister's amendments, and I ask other Members of the House to consider the SDLP's amendments.”
“I encourage him and his officials to explore further how he can strengthen his Department's role in order to ensure that councils are not left at a cliff edge, where they have a mass of enforcement to do, depending on the state of the buildings — we do not know, because there is no register — and how he can play a stronger role along with his Executive colleagues. <BR /> <BR />It is a priority issue. Dereliction covers more than our town centres; I see it in housing estates etc as well, but we have a more concentrated element of it in our town centres. That must be dealt with. As for previous research, Ulster University carried out a survey some years ago, Minister, that was in line with what we ask for in the amendment. I had it here earlier, but I have misplaced it.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I have said, I have no doubt that the Bill can play a role in addressing dilapidation, but its success will depend on councils having support. That has been well said, and I will continue to advocate on behalf of the councils, as I am sure that others will. Councils will need resources and partnership with the wider Executive, particularly the various Departments that I have mentioned. <BR /> <BR />We are keen to support the amendments tabled by the Minister, because it is clear that he has been listening to the concerns raised by the Committee and the robust process that we followed. I appreciate that. I believe that the Minister ears are open on the issue.”
“We need to be creative in how we can put the Bill to task. <BR /> <BR />Certainly, as I have said, it is good policy. I have no question that the Bill is well intended. We all want to see those issues tackled, but I fear, particularly given the Minister's clarification that those will be discretionary powers, just how this will be rolled out. Will it be rolled out more strongly in some council areas than in others? Will ratepayers be hit harder in some places than in others? Are some councils further behind than other councils because they have been starved of investment for generations and there is a lot of catching up to do? Will there be a huge amount of work to be done by the council to enforce the powers that they will now be given? There is a wide net here that needs to be looked at and looked at proportionately.”
“I thank my colleague for that very helpful intervention. Other Members and I have raised that issue of living above the shop, if you like, in the past. Here is an example of dereliction. In the street on which my office is situated in Strabane, all the buildings, with the exception of mine and the solicitor's office across the road, are derelict. They could be repurposed very quickly for housing. It would actually force footfall into our town centres. We are all guilty of jumping in the car and, for convenience, nearly parking on the shoes of the person at the till to get into a shop. I say that as a rural person because we are forced to do it that way. The Bill could play a key part in the repurposing of town centres. However, it has to be done in conjunction with the other Departments.”
“I thank the Minister for that. He is right to challenge me on that because I am often the person who is criticising him for all those consultations. When it comes to how we can be more imaginative and do something that will actually be beneficial and show a direct outcome and result, the Bill could be a strong starting point, particularly, as I have said, when you tie in all those other Departments and the Executive working collectively.”
“Yes. That is a legitimate concern. Certainly, things change quite quickly. The dereliction of our towns and villages is much worse today than it was 10 years ago. A number of factors that are well beyond the control of any Minister have led to that. It would be helpful if a more up-to-date consultation were carried out to provide us with the most open view as to where things currently sit. <BR /> <BR />Good policy —”
“If they were formerly retail premises, for instance, they may not ever satisfy housing requirements in town centres, but that is where the Department for Communities could play a role because those buildings could help alleviate the housing pressures that it faces. If the Executive were a bit more creative and imaginative about how the Bill could play out, working alongside councils and the various Departments that are listed — your own Department, Minister, the Department of Finance, the Department for the Economy and, of course, the Department for Communities — the Bill has the potential to do good things. However, leaving it simply at the door of councils, in itself, raises questions and concerns, which I know that we will thrash out as we go forward in the process.”
“Absolutely. I thank the Minister for that intervention and clarification. It is healthy and important to thrash out some of those issues, certainly, when it comes to the local authority. As someone who represents Strabane, Omagh and the surrounding towns and villages, I see how dereliction is a blight on the entire area. It absolutely needs to be resolved, and quickly. <BR /> <BR />We probably need to be a wee bit more imaginative about the Government's role in that and how we repurpose some of those structures in town centres, for instance. Could they be brought back into better use than their previous function?”
“I have picked up a concern from councillors, including those from my party, that this is an attempt by the Executive simply to pass the buck to local councils, as opposed to the Executive's taking a more joined-up approach, which, as I indicated earlier, would be much more satisfactory and involve the Department of Finance, the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs and the Department for Communities.”
“Yes. That was well rehearsed at the Committee. All members had similar concerns about how we can ensure that the Bill, which is well intentioned, has some teeth and can therefore deliver for people on the ground without burdening the ratepayer any further, because there is already a very heavy rate burden across council areas. As I said earlier, that issue is raised with me continually. Councils do not have an endless pot of money at their disposal. In fact, they argue very strongly that they are less funded today than they were in previous years but that their money is expected to go much, much further.”
“If notices are being issued, interventions are taking place and public money is being spent, there should be a clear and accessible public record of that activity in order to ensure openness and transparency and good use of resources.”
“They seek to establish a clear baseline for measuring success, to improve public access to information about how and where the powers are being used and to ensure that those powers are used proportionately across council areas.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I do not have much more to say. A lot of the issues have been addressed so far. <BR /> <BR />The SDLP is asking for the House's support for our amendments. They are designed to strengthen transparency, accountability and public confidence in the operation of the legislation, and we believe that they would make the Bill more effective. Transparency is particularly important, because there will rightly be an expectation, as I said earlier, that action will follow once the powers become available. We need to manage the public's expectation of what the legislation will do. Communities should be able to see what action is being taken to address dilapidation in their areas, and that is the reason for some of our amendments.”
“We recognise the constructive engagement that has taken place throughout the scrutiny process, not just from the Minister and departmental officials but from all the witnesses who looked at the issue honestly and said, "Yes, there is a problem here". We just need to ensure that we find the right way to fix it. <BR /> <BR />Concerns have been raised about our amendments and their consequences. Some Members have said that they place an extra burden on councils. We ask Members to consider the amendments; they are designed to strengthen transparency, accountability and public confidence in the operation of the legislation, so that we are clear at all times about the scale of the problem and how we resolve the issues.”
“Heritage bodies were also clear, as were other stakeholders such as Building Control, about the Bill's unintended consequences without its having the necessary the teeth to deliver. <BR /> <BR />It is welcome that the Minister has listened to many of the Committee's concerns. That does not always happen. A number of amendments have been tabled that would strengthen the Bill, but we could go much further. I am sure that, as we continue the process, the Minister will be all ears to hear what else can be done to improve it. As the official Opposition, we will support the Minister's amendments today.”
“That encourages private investment, and there is natural enhancement from those investors. However, in areas that lag behind because of economic decline, underinvestment and general deprivation, many towns and cities can quickly become the poor cousin. <BR /> <BR />The Bill is not perfect; that fact has been well rehearsed and certainly was throughout the AERA Committee's many meetings. However, it is a significant improvement on the current fragmented and outdated framework, which has really not served our communities well. We have to be honest about the Bill's being a starting point. As the Chair of the Committee rightly said, the Committee undertook extensive scrutiny of the Bill and raised a number of legitimate concerns on councils' behalf. We heard those concerns through various evidence sessions.”
“<BR /> <BR />A strong case remains for targeted regeneration schemes and funding programmes to bring problematic properties back into productive use. Indeed, that has happened: we have seen it in Belfast, Derry and elsewhere over the years. Realistically, however, the Executive cannot come on a white horse and restore all derelict buildings and properties across Northern Ireland; that is just not practical, nor should it be the case, as people need to live up to their own responsibilities. As I said, some areas are worse than others. A neglected building is often a symptom of wider issues, such as economic decline, underinvestment and failed regeneration. Some towns and cities in Northern Ireland are thriving: those with much better populated urban centres where there is a hive of activity.”
“For instance, some people might have the great misfortune to inherit a complete wreck of a building, with no means to resolve the problem, and end up in a very difficult situation. That is a concern that I have. There may be those who have an aunt or uncle with no children — I do not — who might leave them an old mill in Strabane, for instance, which could very quickly become a problem under the legislation. <BR /> <BR />Enforcement powers in themselves cannot become a substitute for the necessary investment that is required. More is needed from the Departments that I have listed to complement the legislation and to interpret what the legislation intends to do. Hopefully, after further conversation with the Minister, that will be something that he and his Executive colleagues will be keen to consider.”
“That applies in particular to those who have been land-banking over a period of time — that happens everywhere, unfortunately — with the hope that the big cash cow will be coming and, ultimately, they will be relieved of their responsibility to maintain, look after and enhance the landscape in a town or village by spending the necessary funds to keep the building up to a good standard. I could list significant numbers of properties in many towns and villages that are owned by a few individuals. Those individuals constantly ask my office whether any grants are available for those buildings whilst, at the same time, buying another building down the street. I get that there is a fundamental issue that needs to be resolved. <BR /> <BR />We have to remember that there are a wide variety of circumstances that are unique to individuals.”
“Whilst the Executive and Departments have been quite good at pumping money into regeneration schemes for footpaths, roads and street landscaping, the buildings that sit amongst those wonderful new settings are often eyesores that take away from the significant investment that has been made in those areas. <BR /> <BR />Enforcement powers are absolutely important, and will serve as a reminder to those concerned that they have a responsibility to carry out works.”
“<BR /> <BR />If we are serious about tackling dereliction, vacant properties and neglected sites, then DAERA, the Department for Communities and the Department of Finance all have a role to play. We need to remove silo working, look at our local towns, villages and cities collectively as an Executive and work to find solutions that will breathe new life into those places. There is widespread criticism that our town centres are dying. Members have spoken about that on numerous occasions in the House. A number of constituency colleagues who sit on the AERA Committee and know Omagh and Strabane and their surrounding villages — I am speaking parochially because that is where I know best — often say that not enough has been done to deal with the issues at hand.”
“<BR /> <BR />Addressing dilapidation is not simply a matter for local government in isolation. The responsibility lies with the Executive as a whole. The Executive have had their eyes closed to this matter for too long, and many of our buildings have deteriorated significantly across council areas over a long period. It could be argued that, until now, the Executive have failed to get a handle on the matter, and significant deterioration has been the result. In fairness, however, within the cogs of the Bill, the Minister is pointing to a very clear and obvious problem. In my view, he has good intentions to resolve the issues for councils, but we cannot just fire out the legislation and, as I said, expect ratepayers to pick up the slack, particularly with all the other competing financial demands that exist.”
“As is often the case when we speak in the House, it may be that some ratepayers or members of the public will take it as a given that the Bill will be the silver bullet that will resolve the dilapidation issues in towns. Depending on which area you are in, the scale is very different. For example, I represent Omagh, which shares a council area with Fermanagh, and Strabane, which shares a council area with Derry. Whilst both councils have significant issues across the board with dilapidation, dereliction and dangerous buildings etc, the situation in some areas is worse than in others. I would argue, selfishly, for instance, that Strabane town has particular issues where there are buildings of a significant age, and there is just not the means to restore them, particularly in line with the heritage requirements that are in place.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill gives councils significant new responsibilities. That is to be welcomed, but giving them responsibilities is not sufficient. They also need the necessary funding and resources to ensure effective delivery in order to remedy what is an outstanding and ongoing issue. As I said, questions remain as to whether councils will have the resources to use the powers effectively on the ground and whether all 11 councils will take the same approach consistently. When considering the Bill, we should be careful that we do not create a situation in which the public's expectations are raised but councils are left to carry the financial burden.”
“There is a desperate need for the necessary funding and resources to back it up. <BR /> <BR />One of the strongest themes to emerge during the Committee's scrutiny was the concern about cost recovery and the financial burden that might be placed on local councils. Members have been clear about the genuine concern that the burden will ultimately fall to the ratepayer. We all know that, over recent years, councils have stated firmly on the record that they continue to be under serious financial pressure and that they face increasing expectations and demands on their services with less real-terms funding to meet their responsibilities. We hear daily from ratepayers who are fed up with seeing rising rates but not the investment that they expect to see in our towns, villages and cities.”
“I jest. <BR /> <BR />The Bill is important, as we all know and as was widely discussed at Committee Stage. As the Chair of the Committee and the Minister reiterated in their contributions, dilapidation has a real impact on communities. It undermines regeneration, damages local pride and creates considerable public safety concerns, about which we, as constituency MLAs, hear all too often. For far too long, communities have been forced to live with derelict buildings and neglected sites, while local authorities have lacked the necessary powers to intervene effectively. I get that that is why the Bill is so essential, in that it provides the tools required to remedy that particular issue. Although we support its broad intent, the Bill alone will not solve the problem of dilapidation.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and happy birthday. I am not sure whether it makes you the grandfather of the House or whether you are working towards that title, but, nonetheless, happy birthday.”
“Minister, as part of your Department's ongoing work on the disability and work strategy, which you have just referenced, what engagement have you had with the Minister for Infrastructure regarding measures, including the provision of free travel, to improve access to public transport for people with disabilities?”
“I thank the Minister for that answer. I am sure that you agree, Minister, that it is important that we give our family farms all the reassurance that they need. They are extremely frustrated by the delay in the process of getting storage facilities etc through the system. What are you doing as Minister to deal with that issue and assist farmers in getting the storage that they need, so that they are not left in an impossible and risky situation?”
“Those who were responsible for what we saw last week should face the full consequences of the law and should realise, very painfully, that what they did was unforgivable and is not acceptable.”
“Anyone who dresses it up as being an issue needs to have a good, hard look at themselves or at least go and look at the facts. What we have Northern Ireland is a health service that has been built and is protected and sustained by people from ethnic minorities who care for our citizens daily. Last week's scenes were utterly disgusting. Should anyone want a bit of clarification on how to identify racism, let us remember that 30 women have been murdered in Northern Ireland, often in their own home, by white men. Where was the mass outrage then? Where were the protests in the streets? Where were the attacks on our emergency services? They did not happen. Members, ask yourselves why that was so.”
“We in the House need to be completely united in calling out what happened for what it is. <BR /> <BR />There are legitimate concerns about illegal immigration, where it occurs. This is the forum, to which we are elected, in which to have those conversations, not in the streets, and not by burning public transport or by attacking people because of the colour of their skin. Such scenes have haunted our communities and set them back, and they have traumatised people. They also send a signal to the rest of the world that people cannot visit this place. The cheek of it. The world opened its doors to Irish and British people in very difficult times. They put their arms around us, welcomed us in and gave us opportunities and a life. <BR /> <BR />There is not mass illegal immigration in Northern Ireland.”
“I join colleagues across the House today in calling out the hate-filled, racist and violent scenes that reared their ugly head across Belfast and other parts of Northern Ireland last week. It was absolutely appalling and almost unbelievable that such scenes were happening in our communities. What happened needs to be called out. There is no dressing it up. There is no hiding it, nor can we try to explain it away. It was absolute and utter racism. Those who took to the streets, covered their faces, attacked people's homes, burned people out of their homes, attacked healthcare workers and wore masks to stop cars in our towns, villages and cities to check whether there was anyone from an ethnic minority in the vehicle are cowards and thugs. They are racists, racists, racists. That is what they are.”
“I thank my colleague and others for tabling amendment No 90. It, too, is a very important amendment and has my full support. I live in and represent a rural constituency. While I am very aware of e-scooters and the dangers that they pose, we do not see the same concentration of them as some of the urban centres around Belfast and other areas do. However, I see young fellas in particular going out on e-scooters on country roads on which it is dangerous to walk, let alone go on an e-scooter. They are exceptionally speedy; I could not believe it when I witnessed the speed of them. It is important that, more widely, we create greater awareness among our young people about the real need to be conscious of the dangers of our roads. <BR /> <BR />I ask the House to support all three of the amendments in the group.”
“At the Court of Appeal, it was decided that that unduly lenient sentence should be increased. Ultimately, the Dolans felt that their voices were heard. There was public outrage. In order to supplement the important changes in the Justice Bill, the Sentencing Bill will be critical to ensuring that there is an increase in the sentences for those who cause death or serious injury as a result of driving while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. I pay tribute to the Dolan family. They have waited for a long time for legislation such as this. It is positive. When Members work together and go through the necessary processes, life-changing legislation can be created.”
“The family were absolutely furious and rightly made the legitimate point that Enda had not had a choice whereas David Lee Stewart did.”
“<BR /> <BR />That is the human story. That is why the Bill and the amendments are important. That is why the Sentencing Bill introduced by the Justice Minister, Naomi Long, is also important. The legislation will save lives. However, there is wider work that we must do to create greater awareness among our population of the serious consequences of getting into any vehicle when you are not in control. You cannot bring Enda Dolan or Jaidyn Rice back. Countless other families, many in my constituency, have spoken to me about how, they feel, the system failed them. <BR /> <BR />When Enda Dolan's case eventually got to court, the perpetrator was sentenced to seven years: three and a half to be served in jail and three and a half on licence.”
“The family were listened to because they spoke out clearly about how the system had failed them and how a young lad who was starting out on his life, attending university, trying to improve his circumstances and seeking out opportunities had been struck down through no fault of his own. Enda did not have a choice, but the driver of that van did. When he attended the licensed premises that he was in, he made the choice to drink 13 alcoholic beverages — multiple pints, shots and spirits. He made the choice to have a cocktail of drugs in his system, including traces of cocaine, benzodiazepines and cannabis. He made the choice when he got into that van and drove down that road. He may not have intended to hit anybody — he certainly did not intend to take Enda Dolan's life — but those were the consequences of his reckless, selfish action.”
“The Minister kindly mentioned it in the House, as Ciara Ferguson did earlier. It is the case of Enda Dolan. It is a human story. Imagine a young student of 18 years of age from Killyclogher near Omagh, a few weeks into attending university in Belfast, walking up the Malone Road to his student accommodation and probably just off the phone to his parents, checking in. He was struck by a van driven by David Lee Stewart. It turned out that the driver of the van had not only been drinking heavily but had a substantial amount of drugs in his system. He struck Enda and carried that young lad 800 yards on top of his vehicle before braking and pulling his body from the van. <BR /> <BR />Stewart was jailed, and rightly so. The family led a powerful campaign, and the Minister heard it, as did the previous Justice Minister.”
“Some believe that they can get away with drug-driving because it is harder to detect, that it is easier to explain away or that, when somebody is not visibly intoxicated, the risk is somehow lower. Clearly, the House, along with countless families that have suffered the worst possible consequences, has said that it is not. Impairment is impairment. All too often, a family receives a knock on the door — many have — and that family does not ask whether alcohol or drugs caused it, because the outcome is the same: they have lost someone so precious to them. Lives have been changed and families devastated. <BR /> <BR />Before I focus on amendment No 90, it is important that I relate something from my constituency. It is an important case that relates directly to the debate.”
“The key thing is that, if the amendments are made and come into effect and people know that they can be stopped and tested at authorised checkpoints, we will find that that will become a deterrent in itself, and people will think twice before taking that reckless and unnecessary action. <BR /> <BR />Let us be honest about another failing. Dangerous attitudes remain among some that drug-driving is somehow less dangerous than drink-driving. That needs to be challenged at the earliest possible stage. We need to create greater awareness of the dangers of getting behind the wheel of a vehicle while intoxicated. We should be having those conversations with our young people of school age.”
“When that happens behind the wheel of a moving vehicle, the consequences can be and have been catastrophic. I have said many times on the public record that any individual who gets behind the wheel of a car while under the influence of alcohol or intoxicated by drugs needs to appreciate that that car quickly becomes a weapon — a weapon that has claimed countless lives, left others seriously injured and had profound consequences for the person responsible. We cannot continue to rely on hoping that somebody appears to be impaired. The amendments move us away from that, and they are welcome.”
“The amendments move the law towards earlier intervention and a more preventative model, for which the PSNI and, indeed, countless families have campaigned for many years. Such a model identifies risk before harm occurs rather than relying on evidence gathered after a serious incident has occurred. <BR /> <BR />Drug-driving is different, because drug impairment is not always visible; indeed, there is a need for wider education in society generally about picking up on the signs of someone being intoxicated by drugs. Often, depending on the drugs that a person has consumed, they can appear calm, relaxed and normal. They can convince themselves that they are capable of driving, in some instances, but their judgement most certainly can be impaired, their reaction times slowed and their decision-making affected.”
“Rather than leaving testing solely to discretion, it establishes a clear expectation that officers will carry out roadside testing when statutory thresholds are satisfied. That creates greater consistency in enforcement, reduces the risk of missed interventions and helps to ensure that similar cases are treated in similar ways across different areas. Those are important considerations, because they recognise that the current framework has its limitations and the cost is just too great. At present, as I said, much of enforcement relies on observation, often meaning that police need to have pulled in a person whose impairment is visible or about whom they have a reasonable suspicion. There are too many gaps in that, and, unfortunately, too many have fallen between two stools.”
“That represents a significant shift from the current position, where testing is generally tied to suspicion and there is an element of discretion, often based on observation or signs of impairment, which is not always reliable, depending on the resilience of the individual when it comes to intoxication. Under this change to the legislation, authorised operations could proactively screen drivers in designated circumstances, creating more visible and consistent enforcement presence and adding to the necessary awareness of the fact that our Police Service is on the ball on the issue. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 75 goes further and introduces a duty to administer preliminary tests where, of course, the legal conditions are met.”
“For too long, families with whom I have engaged on this important issue have said no. Too often, our laws and our enforcement model operate after the damage — the collision, the serious injury or, unfortunately, in many instances, the death — has been done and a family's world has entirely collapsed. The purpose of the law should not simply be to punish after a tragedy but to protect human life where it can. That is why the amendments deserve strong consideration and support. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 74 introduces powers for "Drugs testing at authorised check-points". That means that, under proper authorisation and safeguards, the police would be able to require motorists who are stopped at checkpoints to cooperate with roadside drugs testing.”
“On behalf of the SDLP, I rise in support of amendment Nos 74, 75 and 90. I agree with Members across the House that we must act in the strongest possible terms to tackle the real issue: the scourge of drunk- and drug-driving in our community. Behind all the numbers, statistics and debates, it is very much a human story, because choices that individuals have made to get behind the wheel of a vehicle while intoxicated under the influence of drugs or alcohol have changed the lives of countless families for ever. That is at the heart of the entire debate. <BR /> <BR />There are some very simple questions. Are we, as an Assembly, doing enough to prevent tragedy? Can we do more? Are we doing enough to deter people from breaking the law and acting so recklessly that they put their lives and others' lives at risk?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it acceptable for a Minister to only get to question 4 in listed questions during Question Time?”