Phillip Logan
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Was the Member in when Simon Hamilton outlined the plan? I see this as a way forward. This is positive. There was a problem, and we have addressed it. That is what the people of Northern Ireland want. Elections will not fix this or make it right, but we have put in place steps to do that.”
“Thank you. I thank the Member for his contribution. He is absolutely right. It really should not be an expectation to ask for those things. It should just be part and parcel of life and human decency. <BR /> <BR />I think that we were making progress. It was slow and laboured; nonetheless, I think that we are making progress.”
“We were making real progress, but no more. <BR /> <BR />To be honest, I have no idea what lies ahead after an election. I have no doubt that there will be talks, as the motion indicates, whether it is about building on what we have already attempted to achieve or maybe on a new way forward.”
“To be fair, in the Chamber, as we have discussed this, there is consensus that we all want the best for Northern Ireland. We make that claim. As an optimist, I assume that most of us mean it.”
“I was nine years of age when the Good Friday Agreement was signed and, to me, it feels like a long time ago. I remember reading the Good Friday Agreement and its outworkings at Cullybackey High School and googling a lot of its attributes. Some of it was quite amazing, and I can understand why people struggle to understand a lot of it.”
“Some of the issues that are cited under equality are being used as pawns. Let us talk about them and not polarise people with different opinions. I want to focus on all the people of Northern Ireland.”
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“Some of the issues that are cited under equality are being used as pawns. Let us talk about them and not polarise people with different opinions. I want to focus on all the people of Northern Ireland. I may sound frustrated, and I have said it before, but let me repeat it: I am frustrated because I want to protect the interests of the people of Northern Ireland, those who elected me and those who are in need of help. We need to come in after the election and move forward, not go back to the past. We will certainly have no attempts to rewrite the past.”
“Was the Member in when Simon Hamilton outlined the plan? I see this as a way forward. This is positive. There was a problem, and we have addressed it. That is what the people of Northern Ireland want. Elections will not fix this or make it right, but we have put in place steps to do that. <BR /> <BR />Sinn Féin has used the Irish language, a united Ireland and equality. Those are some of the things cited as factors in this election. It is no secret that we will not give an inch on some of the issues that Sinn Féin would like us to. I believe in equality. Let me make that clear. But, I do not believe in Sinn Féin's definition of equality in the form, as I said last week, of a Trojan Horse. A united Ireland is decided by the people. Everyone, including Sinn Féin, knows well that there is absolutely no appetite for a united Ireland.”
“We heard in Mr Kelly's contributions that it was the Irish language, a united Ireland and equality.”
“We were making real progress, but no more. <BR /> <BR />To be honest, I have no idea what lies ahead after an election. I have no doubt that there will be talks, as the motion indicates, whether it is about building on what we have already attempted to achieve or maybe on a new way forward. There will need to be genuine effort made on all sides. One side cannot throw in the towel if it decides that it is not getting quite enough. It has to be talks and negotiations, and they have to be fair. We need to work on finding a way on things that we do not agree with and on things that are not mutually exclusive or contentious. We have already begun to comprehensively and conclusively address the RHI issue. However, as I said last week in the House, RHI is not the real reason why Sinn Féin has pulled the institutions down.”
“Thank you. I thank the Member for his contribution. He is absolutely right. It really should not be an expectation to ask for those things. It should just be part and parcel of life and human decency. <BR /> <BR />I think that we were making progress. It was slow and laboured; nonetheless, I think that we are making progress. I had hoped, when I entered politics and for the last number of years, that we were able to discuss positive policies rather than engage in political point-scoring. However, our counterpart in government decided that it was not getting enough out of the deal. It started to get selfish and lost sight of the greater good, something that the former deputy First Minister Mr McGuinness had formerly embraced. He worked with Ian Paisley, Peter Robinson and, more recently, Arlene Foster for a short time.”
“I am sure that people can understand our difficulty. Mr Maskey is right to say that he understands how difficult that is. I appreciate that. We have always taken steps to try to move Northern Ireland forward. I think that we were making —”
“To be fair, in the Chamber, as we have discussed this, there is consensus that we all want the best for Northern Ireland. We make that claim. As an optimist, I assume that most of us mean it. The problem starts, as has been said, in that we all differ in what we think and, by extension, what our electorate think is best for Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />The Good Friday Agreement was, understandably, an attempt to move Northern Ireland forward regardless of those political differences. This party, over the last 10 years, has made a huge effort to move Northern Ireland forward in the right direction, even though it is very difficult to do business with a party that we do not want to do business with and, as one of our party members quite rightly said, when sometimes we have to hold our noses to do that business.”
“I was nine years of age when the Good Friday Agreement was signed and, to me, it feels like a long time ago. I remember reading the Good Friday Agreement and its outworkings at Cullybackey High School and googling a lot of its attributes. Some of it was quite amazing, and I can understand why people struggle to understand a lot of it. When you google the names of those who were let out of prison and read their histories, it is very difficult to understand. That is from someone who was not really around in those times and certainly was not able to understand such things at the time.”
“I ran in 2016 to help people and to make their life better. Sinn Féin has made that so much more difficult.”
“He goes on, but I do not have the time. <BR /> <BR />Just last week, I met school principals in the Ballymena area. These leaders of education brought me real issues that we need to address. I congratulate the Minister, Peter Weir, on the progress that he has made — so did those principals — but there is still much, much more to do. Further to this, I am disappointed that we have a generation of young people watching this and watching Sinn Féin's actions. They will look at this situation and learn a lesson that, when you do not get things your own way and when you get things tough, you throw in the towel and abandon ship. That is an absolutely shocking example. It is not something that this party will do. I am gravely concerned and absolutely exasperated. I want to help people: that is why I got into politics.”
“I have already given way, and I really need to get through this. <BR /> <BR />Mr Sterling continued:”
“He said that this is how we will break the — and we all know what Gerry Adams said. <BR /> <BR />The real devastating consequences of Sinn Féin's self-interested moves are the many services that will be affected, either due to a lack of a Budget or a lack of a Government to help set direction. This situation has destroyed any hope of agreeing a Budget for the next financial year. Without a Budget or Ministers, civil servants will take control of the purse strings, and that would limit what they can spend. David Sterling the permanent secretary said:”
“The mask slipped. There is the evidence. Read Martin McGuinness's resignation letter. The evidence is there. This is masked behind RHI. <BR /> <BR />We on these Benches do not dance to the tune of Sinn Féin. It is regrettable that some unionists did fall for the trap and demanded that Arlene Foster step aside without a shred of evidence against her. They jumped on the "Get Foster" campaign very quickly. Of course, these are the same unionists who apologised to Sinn Féin for the national anthem, so we on these Benches are certainly not surprised. Sinn Féin talks about equality, and we know what equality means. Gerry Adams gave us his definition of equality when he said that equality is:”
“Again, a united Ireland is further away than ever. Sinn Féin has tried to mask the issue behind RHI, and they are no strangers to masks. The mask has slipped many times since last Monday. On Monday last week, Barry McElduff the Member for West Tyrone summed up Sinn Féin's actions. This paints a picture of the situation that we are in. The tweet said:”
“I think that the Member does not understand the difference between arrogance and strength. This party is strong. We have shown that for years, and, as a result, we are stronger within the union today than we have been for a long time. We will not apologise for that. <BR /> <BR />Yes, this situation is regrettable and it is not of our making. Sinn Féin pulled the plug because it was unhappy in May and unhappy because of the European referendum result. This is just an attempt to backtrack on those things. <BR /> <BR />The republican agenda has failed. As we heard earlier, they failed when they ran a terrorist campaign in Northern Ireland in search of a united Ireland. They then entered politics after realising that had failed, giving up the battle with guns and bombs to enter a political battle.”
“No, if you listen, it will help you to understand. <BR /> <BR />In May 2016, the nationalist vote fell to the lowest level in 20 years. What we have here is Sinn Féin attempting a rerun of May. That reduced vote backs up what we have been saying: unionism is strong. This party has been saying that for a long time. With the DUP at the helm, unionism is strong and our relationship within the United Kingdom is strong and secure.”
“No, let me remind you and let me remind all in the House why Sinn Féin has pulled the plug.”
“I am absolutely committed to and sure that we need an Executive. As Christopher Stalford rightly set out, we need devolution in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Be in no doubt that this situation has impact. It has impact for the communities that we represent, including the people, the businesses and the organisations. Those are the very same people who we are here to support and protect. This is a very regrettable situation, but, of course, this is not a situation of our making. Be very clear on that. Let me remind you —”
“Like my colleague Pam Cameron, I find this to be a situation of deep regret, and it is with deep regret that I need to address the motion. Just eight months ago, shortly after being elected, I gave my maiden speech in the Chamber. I talked about the Programme for Government. In that speech, I focused on delivery: my commitment to delivery, my party's commitment to delivery, my focus on my constituents and my passion for delivering for them, and my party's commitment to Northern Ireland. My commitment to my people in North Antrim remains, and I am as passionate about that today as I was then.”
“I thank the Minister for the answer. Is that something you want to review, to bring it more into line with the rest of the United Kingdom?”
“I thank the Minister for the answer. I am sure the Minister will appreciate that it is important for not only those residents but those who commute up and down to Belfast, and for tourism. Will the Minister outline a time schedule for work progressing on that?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Given that, on 6 January this year, on that stretch of road alone, six accidents occurred, will the Minister consider reviewing the safety of that road itself?”
“In conclusion, it is simply not good enough to bury our head. If the Minister buries his head, it will be totally irresponsible for the long-term delivery of the education system in this part of the United Kingdom.”
“We need to put up ideas and alternatives.”
“Let me make it clear though that it is an Education Authority proposal. It is out for consultation and that consultation will end on 6 February. I put this to Members and stakeholders: respond to that consultation with alternatives. Most parties in the Chamber have political representation on the Education Authority board. I ask them to lobby those people and ask them to find alternatives, because we need to put up suggestions.”
“I accept the Member's point on that and also agree with my colleague Mervyn Storey's points on the future savings that this will bring, but I do not believe that they are there, and I do not think that the Education Authority has proved those potential savings to be there in the long run. <BR /> <BR />As I was saying, I do not get excited about getting out of my bed in the morning to talk about potential closures. No one would run to come to the House for that. I do not envy the Minister's position at all. He asks the Education Authority to live within its budget, and, when it makes proposals to do that and to reduce its costs, we ask him to go back and say, "Actually, we do not want you to do that at all". I understand that, but I ask him to intervene on this, because I think that people will be greatly affected by those decisions.”
“Do not try to hide it behind a mask that it is supposedly meant to be best for our young people, because we have heard very clearly that it will affect young people directly. In reality, the Education Authority has a responsibility to live within its budget, and we have to accept — the Member who brought the debate has to, as a Member from an Executive party — that we are living in changing times and that we have tough decisions to make. <BR /> <BR />We have an education system, as the Education Authority said, that is built on historic structures. For example, we are funding an Irish-medium sector that, in primary alone, has 895 empty desks. We, as a party in government, will have tough choices and tough decisions to make, and discussing closures is not something that I get —”
“<BR /> <BR />The other point that I want to make is to highlight the failure of the Education Authority to be straight about these proposed closures. We spoke extensively to the Education Authority in a Committee meeting and were told directly that this decision was not financial but is the best for our young people and is all about delivering a better service for them. While I do not doubt the Education Authority's goal and mission of delivering a sustainable and viable service that benefits all young people, I find it strange that the centres that are earmarked for proposed closure are the ones with the highest maintenance bill. It seems to be an attempt to save money, hidden behind a disguised message. If the Education Authority is aiming to save money with these closures, be upfront and tell us about that.”
“I have spoken directly to people affected by that, including schools that make use of the services. The other day, I received — I am sure that other Members did, too — a letter from the Scripture Union, which praised these services and said that it will be directly impacted by any potential closures. It is my belief, and research shows, that a large amount of what a young person learns happens outside the classroom, mainly, I believe, at home. Parents have a huge responsibility for a child's education through being their chief educator, but these outdoor education centres play a huge part in the education of our young people and contribute to the social aspect of their education and, of course, to their physical well-being.”
“I thank the Member for bringing this debate to the Chamber today. It is a great opportunity to discuss the outdoor education centre at Bushmills and all the benefits that it brings to young people. Let me echo what has been said already in the Chamber. I fully agree with those words. <BR /> <BR />Let me say two things at the outset. First, these closures are a disappointment for me, not only the one at Bushmills but the other outdoor education centres. I attended the debate last week on the others. I have spoken directly to people affected by the proposals, including staff and the schools. I apologise that I was not able to make the event that was organised. I had other constituency-related matters that day that I could not change, but I am happy enough to visit at another time, of course.”
“Thanks to the Minister for his answer. Will the views of Supporting People providers, such as the Lighthouse in my constituency, be considered prior to the implementation of any review recommendations?”
“I am going to finish up. I do not ask those in power in those countries to simply talk about human rights; I call them to action so that future generations can have a better start in life.”
“I spoke just last week with a man, a former bus driver, who was targeted by the IRA. That man has lived in fear for many years, and his family, to this day, are massively affected by what happened to him years ago. I often think of families robbed of a loved one at the hands of terrorism here in Northern Ireland. What an absolute violation of their human rights and those victims' right to life. <BR /> <BR />I oppose the motion. It calls for Departments and public bodies to introduce action plans. Yes, of course, that is the answer: more bureaucracy. No, this international Human Rights Day, I ask the people of Northern Ireland and the House to remember those who are not afforded the same human rights as we are.”
“That is right, and I commend Lord Morrow for his work on that. We are leading the way in human rights on that and a lot of different issues. I welcome the Member's contribution to that. I agree with the portion of the motion on remembering people who have not been afforded the same rights as us. <BR /> <BR />Some of us in the Chamber also have a job to do on human rights. There are some in the Chamber who appear to champion human rights on one hand, but, on the other hand, are quite happy to deny the right of life to a child. Let me put on record that this party and I will never be found wanting in standing up for the unborn child. What I find particularly unpalatable today is that here we have Sinn Féin tabling a motion on human rights when some in that party have denied the very right of life to many over the years.”
“I still think about that girl and that child and the start that that child had in life. Not a very good start at all. <BR /> <BR />I believe that everyone should have a safe place to sleep and that everyone should have access to clean water and food. As a result, I agree with a portion of the motion, and that is to acknowledge Human Rights Day. Quite a few things have been set out already with regard to human rights. A day set aside to remember those who —”
“I welcome the opportunity to discuss human rights. I believe in human rights; I think that we all in this Chamber believe in human rights. I, for one, am thankful for what we have been afforded in this part of the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />I have had the opportunity over the years to travel to many countries through mission teams to see at first hand where people are not afforded the same basic human rights that we have been. One memory that sticks out was in Mexico City . I travelled there with the One Mission Society (OMS) and remember people sleeping beside water pipes just to survive the night. I remember one young girl whom I met in a park. She slept in the park, and she had a child. She had no shoes and had glass in her foot, but, because of the healthcare system there, she had absolutely no opportunity to get it seen to.”
“Will the Commission consider moving resources from areas within the Assembly which may be over-resourced to try to deal with private Members' Bills?”
“Last week the Executive announced over £30 million of new funding streams for victims. Can the junior Minister outline what these are and when the applications open?”
“I thank the First Minister for her statement. Was it made clear to the other BIC members what the key priorities are for Northern Ireland in the exit negotiations?”
“We want the very best for the people of Northern Ireland and ALBs help us to achieve that through their various functions. What the motion is asking for today is simply a review. If a reduction in cost, administration, bureaucracy or duplication can be achieved, that would be beneficial for everyone. I commend the motion to the House.”
“The glowing reports from its most recent inspection highlight its effective service. <BR /> <BR />When individuals in my constituency contact me about work-related issues, the Labour Relations Agency is exemplary in the support, information and advice it provides to my team and to the individuals concerned. So, praise where praise is due. <BR /> <BR />However, there is room for a review of arm's-length bodies to see where there are inefficiencies. As the motion indicates, where the number of arm's-length bodies can be reduced, that is the most preferable option; but the review should be allowed to examine all options to maximise service delivery and reduce administration overheads. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, the Executive are committed to delivery.”
“<BR /> <BR />Sometimes we get caught up in framing all arm's-length bodies as a waste of money or as unnecessary extras but some of them do fantastic work and contribute well to Northern Ireland. For example, on Friday I met with a business in my constituency of North Antrim. It ships pharmaceutical products all over the world and made clear that it was delighted with the support it gets from Invest NI. <BR /> <BR />Invest NI, for example, is an organisation that exceeds targets to help the Northern Ireland economy. In 2015-16, the agency once again exceeded its targets, promoting over 5,500 jobs across Northern Ireland against a target of 4,000. There is an organisation that is delivering. <BR /> <BR />I recently spoke in the Chamber about the Middletown Centre for Autism and the fantastic service it provides.”
“The use of shared services has delivered significant savings across government. For example, IT Assist has reduced the cost of IT provision per user by more than 30% over three years and saved over £29 million. Utilisation of existing government shared services such as IT Assist, Account NI and HR Connect must be considered as opposed to each arm's-length body delivering its own IT and HR services internally. <BR /> <BR />This is a challenging discussion. We talk about reviewing arm's-length bodies abstractly and in general terms. It all sounds simple, but no doubt each stakeholder involved in the organisations is passionate about what they do and what they contribute. If an arm's-length body delivers, we need to recognise that and give praise.”
“The Member makes a great point and backs up the reason for having the debate today. <BR /> <BR />There should not be a reduction in the number of arm's-length bodies just to save money at the expense of sacrificing useful services. Good government requires that the public bodies supporting it are efficient and effective. This is not a case of overhauling the most expensive arm's-length bodies but of looking at each organisation's functions, including at why those need to be done by an arm's-length body as opposed to in-house and at how efficiently they are done by any other organisation and how much they contribute to society. <BR /> <BR />This is not a straightforward process — at times it will be difficult to compare organisations — but we have seen instances where even sharing services has made a significant difference.”
“I asked them how they justified not only separate buildings and support staff but the split thinking that comes along with them.”
“<BR /> <BR />Progress is being made, but this party believes that a fundamental review is required of future delivery of the work carried out by arm's-length bodies. The Department for Communities alone has 21 ALBs — excluding the Northern Ireland Housing Executive — which collectively have a combined budget of £78 million. The main drivers included in the review should be as follows: reducing budgets; sharing services and accommodation; more collaboration; different accountability and governance models; and reducing the number of ALBs. On Wednesday past, I asked staff from the Equality Commission, in Committee, what England and Wales lose by having a combined Equality and Human Rights Commission. They did not know.”
“The Democratic Unionist Party has tried to make streamlining government and its associated arm's-length bodies a key ambition. In the previous mandate, the Executive made huge strides in streamlining Departments and their arm's-length bodies and made provision to reduce the number of MLAs from the year 2021. In the 2011 mandate, the Executive delivered a reduction in the number of Departments from 12 to nine; a reduction in the number of special advisers; a reduction in the number of MLAs per constituency by one from 2021; and a reduction in the number of councils from 26 to 11. As of 31 March 2015, the number of public bodies stood at 103. Even then, that figure was collated after the creation of the Education Authority in place of the five separate education and library boards.”
“I move the motion in my name and that of my party colleagues. First, I wish to state that arm's-length bodies (ALBs) are necessary for the proper functioning of government; they perform an important role in helping Departments to fulfil their obligations. The review is not intended to eradicate all arm's-length bodies but aims to improve the public's, and even the Assembly's, understanding of arm's-length bodies. The review is intended to produce better scrutiny and stronger accountability and to ensure that arm's-length bodies are carrying out their functions as intended, meeting their aims, and achieving value for money. <BR /> <BR />In 2010, the Assembly debated a motion that called on the Executive to review the roles and functions of quangos and arm's-length bodies to ensure that there was accountability and value for money.”
“Will the Minister detail for the House the average annual salary of a teacher in Northern Ireland?”
“— is a sensible approach to the schools estate that puts pupils first, with an acceptance that isolated areas cannot be abandoned. <BR /> <BR />In closing, I also believe there needs to be choice for parents.”