Alex Maskey
West Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“First, I thank the Minister for making an absolute pledge of non-interference by him as the Minister of Finance. I note that he has asked others to do likewise.”
“I think that it has been made very clear that you can legislate, set up institutions and all the rest of it within a particular framework, but, if people chose and choose not to embrace the principles and concepts, it will not work.”
“I appreciate that the Member was not here last February, so she had no role in the last discussions, but she needs to be aware that her party voted against the proposal to close the scheme in February 2016. That is the reality; that is a fact.”
“Over the last number of years, we have all been challenged in the things that we had to do and in the agreements that we had to reach and were challenged to adhere to. Nevertheless, when people have worked in the spirit of partnership and sharing power, this place and this and previous Executives have produced much better work.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I really did not want to interrupt, because I know that he is passionate about the points that he is making. If I remember correctly, the Ulster Unionist Party leader said a couple of months ago that, if the Good Friday Agreement was up for debate now, the party would not support it.”
“A Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle, I also wish you well in the time ahead as a republican activist. <BR /> <BR />It is fairly ironic in its own way that, in the last hours of this Assembly, we are debating the principles and values of the Good Friday Agreement.”
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“The two parties who are making the loudest noise about dysfunctionality are those that were rejected as Government parties because people did not trust them to solve the leaks, the permanent and systemic leaking, from the Haas talks, the Stormont House talks and Executive meetings; leaks which were coming from those parties —”
“<BR /> <BR />As everybody around this table knows, we have had three or four years of significant debate in the public around what was then called the "dysfunctionality" of the Executive; an argument that was put forward by both parties that have proposed amendments this morning. We all discussed that dysfunctionality argument. Part of their problem — and I think that it has been proven — is that, first of all, the public rejected their arguments about where the fault for that lay. Quite clearly, whether people like it or not, Sinn Féin and the DUP have been returned as the two largest parties.”
“I dare say that the vast majority of people right across the North and maybe further afield will also very much welcome the fact that support was given to both the New York flight arrangements and the City of Derry Airport. Those policies are delivering for people. <BR /> <BR />I have to say that, on quite a number of occasions in the last mandate, as a member of the Committee for the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister — Mike Nesbitt, the former Chair of that Committee, will know and, I presume, would concur — I supported him in calls to the First Minister and deputy First Minister to ensure that the Committee was treated respectfully and properly and was given papers on time and proper briefings. I raised that myself within my party.”
“The fact that this Executive and the previous one, which had Ulster Unionist Party and SDLP involvement, have had Executive programmes is hardly a surprise, because it has been the practice since the day and hour that the Assembly was formed in 1998-99. <BR /> <BR />Likewise, Mr Agnew referred to the decisions about support for the New York flight and City of Derry Airport. Mr Agnew is entirely entitled to his opinion on whether to oppose the financial and other support for those initiatives — the airport and the flight. He is entitled to have that opinion, but so, too, the Minister and the Executive are entitled to take some positive action to address those issues.”
“No, you will all have plenty of time. You will have your Opposition days. You will have all sorts of opportunities to ask your questions. I have to try to condense what I have to say in just a few short minutes. <BR /> <BR />What I am saying is that there are issues, whether they be the Bengoa report, decentralisation or Executive funding programmes like SIF. All the Executives, from the initiation of the Assembly in 1998, have had a variation of Executive programme funds, which allowed, in the first instance, the SDLP and the Ulster Unionist Party to establish the Executive funds by which they could cross-fertilise ideas and fund bigger programmes, including support for children's programmes and all the rest.”
“I accept that, in his presentation, Mr Farry was, for the most part, very respectful in his contribution, but I think that it was very wrong to imply at all that the Minister is sitting on the Bengoa report.”
“<BR /> <BR />For example, the decentralisation of her Department by the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development and the means to do that were raised as being somehow inappropriate. The fact of the matter is that it was a commitment given to the electorate and delivered upon. Whilst I accept that there may be arguments against that, there are many very good arguments for it. The fact of the matter is that it was a policy decision that was taken in the interests of the people who were served by the Minister and, I suppose, the Executive as a whole. <BR /> <BR />To also suggest for one second that the current Minister of Health is sitting on the Bengoa report is actually quite disgraceful.”
“I rise on behalf of Sinn Féin to reject the motion and the amendments. I will make a number of points, and maybe we could have a respectful discussion; but that is in the gift of the Speaker, not me. <BR /> <BR />Stephen Farry, on behalf of Alliance, proposed the motion and spoke to it, but it is very interesting that no one, apart from some on the sidelines, said that there has been anything illegal, inappropriate or wrong in the various decisions that have been taken or in the delay or non-production of documentation at any given time. The issues that Stephen Farry raised are really policy matters and manifesto commitments that parties have made, and you either agree with them or you do not.”
“I appreciate the Minister making that commitment. I will come back to him on that with some details. My understanding is that a number of children have applied for preschool special school provision and that has not yet fully been met. I make the point to the Minister that, although I am grateful for his commitment to look into this, if that were the case, we would have to say that it would amount not only to disparity but possibly to discrimination against a very important sector of our community. I will come back to the Minister on that.”
“Will the Minister commit to continuing to work in the time ahead with the Belfast Chamber of Trade and Commerce, which has many laudable objectives and great work behind it, and make sure that the Department's investments are put into the city as a whole, so that communities that heretofore have not really benefited as well as they might will do so and Belfast can become a fairer city as well as a stronger city and economy?”
“— all-party support for our amendment to have a full investigation.”
“— will be limited in its remit, but we call for —”
“— that the law enforcement agencies have. I make the point that our amendment is open-ended in that it does not rule out an Assembly Finance Committee because that is entirely in the gift of the Finance Committee. We would argue that it —”
“If the First Minister and deputy First Minister make such a statement, they make it very clear on behalf of themselves and the Executive that they support all the relevant investigations that are under way, most of which at this time are criminal investigations, whether that is the PSNI and an Garda Síochána on both sides of the border on an all-Ireland basis, the NCA, the American organisations or whatever. <BR /> <BR />I want to say again for the record that we have no difficulty with the Assembly Finance Committee undertaking such an inquiry, but we already know that it will be seriously restricted in how it can conduct its business. We all know that Assembly Committees are limited in what they can do. They do not have the authority to have the type of forensic investigations —”
“No, I want to finish. Thank you. <BR /> <BR />By the same token, in trying to get all-party support in the Chamber for the key principles around all this, we have tabled an amendment that, we believe, is much more inclusive because it not only calls on the First Minister and deputy First Minister to make a statement; it calls on them to make a statement and make clear their support for all the criminal investigations under way — not only their support but the support of the Executive. As far as we are concerned, that is very important.”
“We have called for that and called for an all-Ireland inquiry. Again, it refers to the Assembly Finance Committee. <BR /> <BR />I want to promote the Sinn Féin amendment because it is very inclusive. We have tried to match the very genuine sentiment and intention of the motion and the SDLP's amendment. We support very much the thrust of the amendment and the motion, and we support very much the annoyance and anger felt and expressed by the Members who moved the motion and the amendment.”
“A lot of the people who seem to be associated with all that collapse — big bankers, developers, senior politicians, including Ministers — all seem to have come out of it smelling of roses, whilst the vast majority of citizens are left with negative equity and many have lost their home. People across the Twenty-six Counties have to pay for a GP appointment, and, sometimes, they cannot even get one for some considerable time. The litany of iniquity levelled against ordinary citizens is disgraceful when we look at the scandalous story of NAMA and how all that has unfolded, and it continues to scandalise the vast majority of us. <BR /> <BR />The SDLP amendment is also a bit narrow, in so far as all that it does is to recommend consideration of the creation of a joint investigating team.”
“For the record, we in Sinn Féin broadly support the thrust of the motion, even if we think that it is too narrow and clumsy in that it not only throws in some silly jibes but misses the point in some cases if the Member wants to seek all-party support. <BR /> <BR />Again, for the record, we in Sinn Féin have long been on the record as challenging the establishment of NAMA, the behaviour and activities of NAMA and some of the individuals associated with its business. John O'Dowd made the point well that the entire process around NAMA meant that a huge financial debt was imposed on the vast majority of ordinary Irish citizens. The twenty-six-county state was almost brought to its knees, and I have to say that that has been a recurring theme of annoyance for a lot of people.”
“I have only just started, so I will continue, thanks very much, Mike. As I said, it only really calls for a statement by the joint First Ministers and implies a Finance Committee inquiry. We believe that is far too narrow. For the sake of the debate, I would suggest to Philip Smith that he considers that. While he made quite a number of valid points, which we broadly support, he threw in a number of clumsy, politically inspired jibes, which undermine his own work.”
“I follow on from my colleague John O'Dowd in making a number of points about the motion tabled by the Ulster Unionist Party. First, the motion is simply too narrow because it only calls for a joint statement by the First Minister and deputy First Minister, which is supposed to inspire confidence, but I do not really know what that statement is about, or what it is supposed to do, or how it is going to allay fears and concerns, and inspire confidence. It also implies —”
“Coincidentally, on the back of the last Member's contribution, I thank you, Mr Speaker, for admonishing Mr McCrossan for the manner in which he put his questions to Minister O'Neill. I felt that his tone was hectoring, bordering on bullying, and I do not think that the Member would want that as his reputation. I therefore ask you, Mr Speaker, to review the manner in which those questions were put and to have a conversation with Mr McCrossan to make him understand that Members should address colleagues in a certain manner in the Chamber.”
“I thank the Minister for that very comprehensive response. I wanted to ask whether looked-after children are being engaged with, but, clearly, that is the case. Therefore, in the spirit in which she has already responded comprehensively, will she continue to update the House in future on the success of that engagement with looked-after children?”
“The Minister has already answered the question and said that he has met the Minister for Communities. Given his optimistic projections, will he give the House an assurance that he will continue to engage with the Minister for Communities to make sure that the potential ramifications of the decision are minimised if not reduced altogether?”
“Given the circumstances that we now find ourselves in, is the Minister in any position to confirm whether the rural development programme will run to 2020? Will there be any shortfall in funding made available if there is a reduction from London?”
“I thank the First Minister for that response. Obviously, I did expect that, and I very much appreciate it. However, would the First Minister again appeal to all other parties and representatives to equally make it clear publicly, where they need to do that, that migrant residents here are very welcome?”
“I thank the Minister for her responses so far. She has begun to address some of these matters, but will she outline the very positive impact that SIF programmes have had on local communities?”
“We need to make sure that we provide adequate social housing in urban and rural communities, that those homes are fit for modern living and that all tenants, whether from the Housing Executive, housing associations or the private rented sector, are protected. We also need to make sure that landlords are protected from less-than-scrupulous tenants, because this can cut two ways. <BR /> <BR />On that basis, I commend the motion and thank the Alliance Party for tabling its amendment, which can only help. I urge Members to show their support for the concept of robust regulation, and I ask the Minister to take forward an early and urgent review of the effectiveness of the landlord registration scheme.”
“All of us are keen to make sure that not one citizen is affected by homelessness or has to endure that condition, but it was a brave intervention, because it might not always seem the most popular thing to say. It may even jar with many of us who, when we see people on the street, think that they are, of course, vulnerable. If you listened to the interview with Sandra and Kerry, you know that, given their background, history and work experience, they are very sympathetic to the needs of vulnerable people. More importantly, they are professionals and experts in the field, and they draw attention to the issue in this day and age. <BR /> <BR />As I said on behalf of Sinn Féin, at the start of this mandate, we need to give a clear signal that housing and the well-being of tenants are important to all Members.”
“<BR /> <BR />I take the opportunity to commend this morning what I consider to be a brave intervention by Sandra Moore from the Welcome Organisation and Kerry Anthony from Depaul, who have tried to address the issues of begging in the street and homelessness.”
“Given the sheer volume of houses and homes provided by that sector, it is essential that we start off the mandate with the very clear signalled intention of making sure that there is enough social housing provided for people by the Housing Executive, housing associations and, of course, the private rented sector, and that it is going to pertain long into the future. It is essential that the sector is fully and robustly legislated for and regulated. That will protect both landlords and, of course, tenants, far too many of whom, as I said, are living in unfit accommodation in this day and age.”
“Clearly, it dealt with the whole question of the need to have proper regulation and proper accountability to ensure that landlords and tenants are protected against those among them who are less than professional. The reason why we are more than content to adopt the Alliance Party amendment is that it has included letting agents, which was a concept that was embraced in the HMO legislation. <BR /> <BR />It is also important to recognise that the former Department for Social Development, now the Department of Communities, is taking forward an overall review of the private rented sector.”
“Therefore, we want the Minister to have an urgent review of the effectiveness of the landlord registration scheme to ensure that people are protected if they are living in unfit accommodation. Many of us will understand that there still too many people — there should not be any — who live in accommodation that is unfit in this day and age. Of course, we remind ourselves that the sector is in receipt of somewhere in the region of £300 million-plus. That was the last figure in 2013-14, and it is a huge amount of public money that is paid out by way of housing benefit to a sector that, very often, is not as regulated as it should be. <BR /> <BR />I commend the last Minister, Department and Assembly for passing the HMO legislation, which is, in a way, related.”
“As many Members will know — the Minister will certainly know, and the Department will be well aware of it — the Assembly took forward those two pieces of legislation in an attempt precisely to protect those who live in the private rented sector and, given the essential importance of the private rented sector, to make sure that people will not be at the mercy of some poor landlords. <BR /> <BR />As representatives, most of us will have worked with landlords and tenants over the years and know that the vast majority of landlords are very professional and provide very good accommodation. Of course, as in every walk of life, there are others who are less professional. There are some who are much less scrupulous, and some people are therefore forced to live in housing that is certainly not up to standard.”
“In that context, given the sheer volume of people who are reliant on the private rented sector, it is important to get accurate figures. It would also be interesting if the Minister could, if you like, try to bottom out how many people have not registered over the last 16 months or so — in other words, how many have not complied with the deadline — and, if any landlords have not complied, what action, if any, has been taken. The same obviously also applies to the tenancy deposit scheme.”
“It is therefore estimated, using figures from the 2011 census and the house condition survey, that 98% of private tenancies have registered with the scheme. That would obviously be very good and an important and fairly high figure, but it is important for the Minister to endeavour to get us as up-to-date figures as he can. Clearly, there are some considerable inaccuracies in at least three of those previous questions and the responses to them. <BR /> <BR />The private rented sector obviously leads the way numerically, in volume, in the provision of social rented accommodation over the Housing Executive and housing associations, which, between them, have 135,000 dwellings, including family, sheltered and supported housing.”
“In many cases, it is one or two houses. At the time, the then Minister felt that it was appropriate to have the balance with a light touch. As I said, the effect of that remains to be seen. <BR /> <BR />We have tabled the motion again because, in the last period of time, we have had some conflicting figures. It is important that I remind the House that, in written responses in the last mandate, on 25 February 2015, we were advised that 37,000 landlords had registered providing details of 72,000 tenancies. In another written answer, in March that year, the figures were that 35,000 landlords were registered providing details of 77,000 properties. <BR /> <BR />In February, we had a record that 33,000 landlords had registered, providing details of 70,000 tenancies. We were then given a further report on 1 March 2016, which stated:”
“That was appropriate, and it was good that it happened, but it took a further seven years before the scheme for registration was agreed through legislation by the Assembly, with 25 February 2015 the cut-off date for complete registration. However, many of us will have thought at the time that it was important to have robust legislation in place to underpin the scheme. The Minister at the time, on balance, thought that a light-touch approach would be more appropriate, and time will tell how effective that will be. Of course, many of us argued that we need robust legislation to tackle poor quality of housing standards and the lack of accountability that was very evident in that sector. The balance, of course, was to not impose an overly bureaucratic burden on landlords, many of whom own a very small number of properties.”
“I rise to commend the motion to the Assembly and to accept formally the amendment tabled by the Alliance Party. I apologise on behalf of my colleague Fra McCann, who was to speak on this but is unwell. It is nothing too serious, thankfully. There is nothing to report in that regard, but, nevertheless, he was due to speak today. Most Members will now well understand that Fra McCann has had a singular focus on the provision of housing, particularly social housing, for people right across our society for many, many years. He regrets that he cannot be here to speak to this motion directly. <BR /> <BR />I remind Members that, as far back as 2007, Fra McCann tabled a motion in the House to have a landlord registration scheme introduced, and that was passed with the support of all Members and all parties.”
“I thank the Minister for that comprehensive response. The Finance Minister today referred specifically to allocations for skills and further education. The Minister has addressed the fact that Invest NI, skills and further education are key components in assisting local businesses. Will he give us some assurance that Invest NI, the further education sector and the skills sector will embark on work to ensure that local companies get enough support to attract, in particular, inward investment?”
“I thank the Minister for his response so far and for his commitment, in his new role, to support those who access libraries. The library service received substantial support throughout the previous mandate. The Minister has identified categories of people who are in most need, so I ask him once again to do his best to ensure that those who are most in need — he listed the categories — will continue to be able to access library services.”
“I want to make one final point to residents, many of whom may have thought that the Bill would be a vehicle for restricting the provision of HMOs in any given area. However, that is outside the scope of this legislation, and we look forward to planning how we would restrict the provision of HMOs in a residential area. While HMO accommodation will continue to play an important role, it cannot ruin residential areas, which can be completely undermined by the provision of too much of this type of accommodation.”
“The over-provision of HMOs in residential areas completely skewed the character of those areas and led to difficulties for residents that remain today. We welcome the Bill, as it considerably enhances the health and safety, well-being and overall management of HMOs; it will certainly bring much more accountability to landlords. Although many landlords have been very responsible, some have been much less so, and the Bill enables us to hold them to account. Hopefully, that will be done in a spirit of cooperation; we want to ensure that the sector is well regulated so that it provides much needed accommodation in a healthy environment. <BR /> <BR />On that note, on behalf of Sinn Féin, I thank the Minister and his Department.”
“I thank those stakeholders, particularly residents' organisations and housing rights experts, who gave evidence to the Committee and helped to shape our thinking. I say to the House, without hesitation, that the Committee for Social Development supports the Bill at Final Stage. I will now make a few remarks as an MLA. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of Sinn Féin, I thank the Minister and his Department for bringing this legislation forward. As has been said, it is a lengthy and complex Bill, and there has been a great deal of deliberation on it. The Committee, my party colleagues Fra McCann, Phil Flanagan and myself were struck by the strength and passion of evidence given, particularly from residents of areas such as the Holylands, which have suffered a lot over the last few years from the non-regulation of the sector.”
“Proposals emanating from the review and role of the private rented sector and, particularly, the social housing reform programme, have the potential to reshape housing. Similarly, the report from the housing supply forum made recommendations that will have to be considered in detail but which should inform how we meet housing need across all tenures and, in so doing, contribute to economic growth. In short, housing will be a key issue for the new Department and the new Committee in the next mandate. <BR /> <BR />In closing as Chairperson, I thank my Committee colleagues for their contribution to the scrutiny of the Bill and to departmental and Committee officials who worked collaboratively to ensure that we reached this stage.”
“Of course, we cannot expect changes overnight, and, as noted in the Committee’s report, there are still matters to be worked out with stakeholders, particularly with councils, on how the Bill will be implemented. To that end, I am sure that the Committee for Communities will have a keen interest in any secondary legislation pertinent to the Bill, as well as the accompanying guidance produced by the new Department. <BR /> <BR />A Bill can make no difference unless it is properly enforced, and I welcome the Minister’s commitment at Consideration Stage to ensure that councils are sufficiently resourced to ensure that that happens. As the Minister is aware, the Committee for Social Development took a keen interest in housing issues throughout the mandate.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. On behalf of the Committee for Social Development, I welcome the Final Stage of the Bill. I thank the Minister for bringing the Bill to this point. It was evident throughout the previous stages of the Bill that it has been welcomed by the entire House. That reflects the recognition that its provisions are seen as a good step forward to improve standards in HMOs and, ultimately, to protect and improve the health and safety of tenants in that type of accommodation. It is refreshing, as Chair of the Committee, to note the responsive approach taken by the Minister and his Department to suggestions made by the Committee and stakeholders to enhance the Bill. That shows what can be achieved in a relatively short period, even when a Bill is as long and complex as this one.”
“I had intended to respond briefly, given the inaccuracy —”
“I am pleased that we can stand over that today.”
“I have no doubt that, having demonstrated our ability to do our level best to mitigate thus far the worst cuts coming from London, we will continue to endeavour to do that in the time ahead. Even if there are no further cuts to be imposed over the next three or four years, we will, within three years, formally review the mitigation package to see how effective it has been and what else we may need to do. <BR /> <BR />The people who were involved in the Fresh Start Agreement have delivered a package that, I know — it is not a matter of belief — is, quite clearly, second to none in these islands. That is important to state. We would have loved to be able to do more. I have heard a lot of other commentary, but empty rhetoric makes for empty purses. That agreement puts money into the pockets of the most vulnerable.”
“I am pleased that we managed to secure the mitigations, the money for the independent advice centres, as Mr Douglas reminded us, and the flexibilities that have been built into the system to make things much easier. I look forward to the public awareness programme being rolled out by the Social Security Agency in conjunction with the independent advice sector and others in the very short time ahead. <BR /> <BR />Clearly, as time goes on, we will address, as and when they arise, the further cuts that may well be imposed. Neither I nor anyone else in the Chamber can make any further commitments at this point; we will simply have to see how further cuts are imposed, what their impact may be, who will be worse off and so on.”