Pat Catney
Lagan Valley · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I am delighted that he will get his own private Member's Bill through, which will bring equality, again, within teaching. He had to do a huge piece of work on the back of that. <BR /> <BR />It makes me proud to be part of this Assembly.”
“I am excited for the future. I will go back to the Minister. I have done so twice and will do it again. I do not know how the relationships required by the Bill's cross-cutting nature will go or which Department will hold the powers that the Bill provides to ensure that period products are available as widely as possible.”
“I have done that with every single Member whom I have met out there and talked to. I thank Members across the Chamber for their kind words to me personally today. This is not electioneering, folks, but I will tell you this. As we walk out and face the general public, no one knows what way they are going to go.”
“When I started out, I did not know the whole process of where or how it goes, but I know the process now, and I know that there is a lot of work, including from the civil servants. Mr Deputy Speaker, I will go back to tell you about when I had the little pub next door to Churchill House.”
“I will not be much longer, folks. I want to say that, as I was coming down this morning, I had the radio on, and I heard about an art project that is going on in Belfast. This may well be my last opportunity to speak about the ring of steel.”
“There was a bit of toing and froing, and I did not know which Department was going to lift the Bill and take up the chalice, which some people may have thought was a poisoned chalice. I thank the Minister, Deirdre, for taking that chalice. It was brave and correct to do that.”
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“People have dedicated their lives to campaigning for this, and we are passing legislation that will make a tangible difference to many. I hope that you can all join in that support. I will not leave the Floor without going back to our Minister. I thank you, Deirdre. You have stated that you are from a working-class area of south Belfast, and I had a little bar that was close to it. I say that, if this is my last day and my last word in the Chamber, the support from all the parties — all of us together — gives me hope for the future. That is what we need and what is in short supply. We can do it when we work together.”
“I have done that with every single Member whom I have met out there and talked to. I thank Members across the Chamber for their kind words to me personally today. This is not electioneering, folks, but I will tell you this. As we walk out and face the general public, no one knows what way they are going to go. I do not even want to give you Winston Churchill's quote after the electorate had spoken in 1945. Winston said, "The electorate have spoken", and he then used a bad word that started with b, but I will not say it. <BR /> <BR />We are going out there, and I thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for the way that you have conducted this debate. This has been one of the great experiences for me as an MLA who came here quite late in life. I was over 60 when I was elected here. This is a day when we are working on important issues.”
“When I started out, I did not know the whole process of where or how it goes, but I know the process now, and I know that there is a lot of work, including from the civil servants. Mr Deputy Speaker, I will go back to tell you about when I had the little pub next door to Churchill House. I saw the civil servants going home at 5.00 pm, and I thought, "God, that would be a great job. I am still having to work until one or two o'clock in the morning". I am glad that I did not go into the Civil Service, I can tell you, because I see how hard they work. <BR /> <BR />I thank Dolores Kelly, Nichola Mallon, Sinead McLaughlin, Sinéad Bradley and my room-mate, young Cara Hunter, for all that help. What a team of Members. I have sat with them and talked about every aspect of this Bill, its impact and the change that it will make.”
“It must be absolutely terrible to wake up in the morning and find that you are going out to school and you do not have access to the products that you need for a natural bodily function. I hope that this changes it for every little girl, every person, every woman and everything that goes on from here. I am delighted to welcome the fact that we are able collectively to change this. <BR /> <BR />As I said, we should have got rid of that stigma years ago. My colleagues here have supported me throughout all of this, including a lot of the women from the UUP, the DUP, Sinn Féin, the SDLP and the Greens. I am sure that I have had your heads turned, because I had to ask questions. I was on a journey, and I was asking questions, and all those questions were answered and all that help was given.”
“I am delighted that he will get his own private Member's Bill through, which will bring equality, again, within teaching. He had to do a huge piece of work on the back of that. <BR /> <BR />It makes me proud to be part of this Assembly. I am not going to apologise: I left school at 15, and I do not have any O levels or qualifications, but I will tell you what I do have: I have a grounding in Belfast and seeing the best in people, because I left Moira to come into Belfast. We live in a great place, and we have seen that, when we work here, we can deliver. This is a positive message. <BR /> <BR />We should have got rid of the stigma of period poverty and the stigma of talking about periods years ago. I am a son, a brother, a father of three girls and a grandfather of three little girls, and, as the Minister said, this changes it for them.”
“I thank all the Members who contributed to the debate. I thank Ciara Ferguson and Diane Dodds. I am going to call Diane "the Baroness". Diane looked at the Bill and went through the scrutiny of it. I have to commend her, and I commend everyone who does that, so I am giving her her full title. From an Irish nationalist to the Baroness, I thank you. <BR /> <BR />The impact on those who cannot get access to period products is huge. Giving that to pupils, workers and all people will improve access to education and work and will allow them the level of dignity that they all deserve. <BR /> <BR />I thank Chris Lyttle. It has been great to see how Chris works, how he does his politics and how he engages, how he was the Chair of that Committee and how things were pushed upon him.”
“I was not too sure at the start whether I was going to wind or whether it would be the Minister. <BR /> <BR />Before I start, I thank you, Emma, for your act of kindness before we met on the steps of Stormont. It had a huge impact on me, as it did on a lot of MLAs. I have heard great words spoken. I am a big, strong, burly man, but, at times, I get a little bit emotional. I am delighted to be part of this Assembly, working with some great people. In fact, I am delighted to be working with everyone. I believe that every single one of us is here because we want to do better for where we come from and enrich our home place.”
“To finish, I welcome the Bill and commend it to the House. I trust and hope that it passes through the Assembly.”
“I thank the Member from Armagh for his intervention. I can only agree with him. I may well have been one of those men who was a little bit frightened about speaking about the issue. However, I share offices with and am next door to some of the great women in the SDLP. I can tell you that they pushed me and made sure that I stood up to the mark. That is change. We need change, and the Bill will bring change.”
“I am excited for the future. I will go back to the Minister. I have done so twice and will do it again. I do not know how the relationships required by the Bill's cross-cutting nature will go or which Department will hold the powers that the Bill provides to ensure that period products are available as widely as possible. The provision of funding must follow. Whether or not I am re-elected, I will make sure that funding is allocated for period products in the next Budget. That is a promise, and I will be watching to see whether it goes through. <BR /> <BR />The Bill is a first step — a momentous one, no doubt, but a first step nonetheless. We must now ensure that, backed by the legislation, products are made available as soon as practicably possible so that all citizens can live their lives with dignity. <BR /> <BR />To finish —”
“I will not be much longer, folks. I want to say that, as I was coming down this morning, I had the radio on, and I heard about an art project that is going on in Belfast. This may well be my last opportunity to speak about the ring of steel. I operated behind that ring of steel, and the project in Belfast marks its being built 50 years ago. I will be only a second, Mr Deputy Speaker; this is important and relevant, and I will keep moving on it. Sometimes, we forget where we have come from and the harshness of the place that we call home. It is a fantastic to be here today to make this change. <BR /> <BR />For each person who has filled me full of hope for the future, there are so many more for this fight. I hope that, now, with the backing of legislation, the aspirations of all those young people will be met soon.”
“They have not given us an easy ride. Every single one of them went through the Bill with a fine-tooth comb and questioned me on every clause, timescale and duty. However, they have always been supportive and keen to work it through. <BR /> <BR />Am I time-limited on this?”
“They are the people who drove me on and helped me every single moment. When I needed a question answered, they were there. They were the ones who went out on to the streets and delivered period products to the people out there who need them. They go out day and night. I was delighted to have them on the steps here today, because, while the Bill may have my name on it, it belongs to the campaigners and activists who have pushed us all to get here.”
“I ran out of time this morning. I meant to buy the little round doughnuts that are a bit a tradition in the Bill team. They will come; I will get them down next week, eventually. <BR /> <BR />I also thank the Speaker and all those in his office and the Business Office for the quick approval and turnaround of the Bill. I thank Alex and give him my best wishes for his retirement. Knowing Alex, I know that he will be working and doing something. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I thank each and every campaigner who pushed for the free provision of period products. I had a great time with some of them this morning. I thank Katrina, Ele, Grace and Alexa in particular, and I thank all the young students from the universities and schools who made it out on to the steps at the front of the Building this morning.”
“I can tell you that Diane went over every detail, but that is great. That is what we are here for. We are here for scrutiny, and we try to make legislation better. I thank her and all members of the Education Committee. <BR /> <BR />I thank Aoibhinn Treanor and Frank Geddis. I give a big "Thank you" to them for all the help that they gave in explaining things to me, as did the Bill Office, and for their support and patience throughout all our work together.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Deputy Speaker, I will take a moment to wish Chris Lyttle MLA all the best as he moves forward, as I know that he will not run for the next mandate. He will be missed. I am honoured, as an older man, to call Chris a friend; I have made a great friendship with him. <BR /> <BR />Some of the scrutiny was tough; in fact, if I am lucky enough to introduce another private Member's Bill, my list of consultees may be extended to include statutory interested parties. Top of that list would be Diane Dodds from the DUP.”
“There was a bit of toing and froing, and I did not know which Department was going to lift the Bill and take up the chalice, which some people may have thought was a poisoned chalice. I thank the Minister, Deirdre, for taking that chalice. It was brave and correct to do that. You know that it was the right thing to do, Minister, and I am delighted that you came on board. <BR /> <BR />Thanks must be given to all the political parties for their support and to some key Members across the political spectrum who helped the Bill to move at pace in order to make sure that it passed before the end of the mandate. I give thanks to the Chair of the Education Committee, Chris Lyttle, for his unwavering support, and to the members of the Education Committee for their diligent and clear scrutiny of the Bill.”
“Some of the departmental amendments were changes from the way in which the Scottish legislation is worded to how we word it in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I thank Caroline Perry and Denise Morgan. I feel like I should table a final amendment to give those two people and, in fact, most of those who worked with me in the Bill Office a pay rise. They have been at the end of the phone and have taken time at all hours of the day and night. They have been so patient in explaining the process, explaining amendments and in helping me with all the changes to the Bill. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister for Communities and the team from her Department: Gerry, Martina, Beverley and Dianne. The amendments that they developed will make the Bill more workable and improve the programmes that come from it.”
“<BR /> <BR />Thanks must be given to those from my team who have worked on the Bill for coming on two years: to Ally for her work at the start, as the Bill was coming about, and to Johnny in my office, who has given me unrelenting support and the time that was required. I thank Emma and Frank for guiding the Bill skilfully through each legislative stage and for keeping me on the level throughout the process. Thanks to those across the Assembly who helped. Thanks to James and Gerry and to BDB Pitmans LLP for the skilful drafting of the Bill. I had a lot of back and forth with them, and I am thankful that they helped to get the Bill to where it is today. <BR /> <BR />As I stated earlier, some of the Bill has drafting from Scotland. Later, I will thank the Minister for Communities.”
“I have so many people to thank. It is right that I mention Monica Lennon, Member of the Scottish Parliament, who has been very helpful to me. She came up with the legislative framework to allow for the provision of free products. I am so grateful for her guidance and support. If we pass the Bill today, we will become the second jurisdiction in the world to allow for universal free provision of period products. <BR /> <BR />When I was elected five years ago, some of my greatest strength and support came from my wife, Rosemary, and my three daughters, Katherine, Sarah and Emma, not to forget my son, Patrick Jr. My daughters encouraged me to take on this fight, and their support has meant the world to me.”
“It is a great day for me. It is very fitting that my last speech of the mandate is to introduce the Final Stage of my private Member's Bill. <BR /> <BR />Passing the Bill sends a strong message that, as my friends in Homeless Period Belfast state, "Menstruation matters". Those are powerful words, and they should ring out as we try to pass the legislation. Menstruation matters to us all — to all girls and women. It tells people that no one should feel ashamed or embarrassed by their period. It makes it clear that menstruation is normal and that access to period products should be universal.”
“and cross-cutting nature of the Bill. Indeed, it addresses the point made by the Member opposite. Amendment No 7 is important for giving overall scrutiny to the Assembly. The other amendments are technical. <BR /> <BR />Again, I thank the team from the Department, and I thank the Office of the Legislative Counsel for its oversight. These amendments lead to better legislation and will result in better schemes being developed when the duties come into operation. <BR /> <BR />I do have more to say, but I will reserve my remarks.”
“<BR /> <BR />By allowing the Departments to take forward the regulations, the amendments relating to persons in the premises help to address some concerns that Departments raised about the operation of clause 2. They are also a more elegant solution than looking at ambiguous definitions of legitimate causes to be in public buildings. I want to legitimise the cause for people to be in those buildings. The amendments fit with the ethos of the Bill to create a framework to allow for the free provision of period products in line with the requirements in clause 3. They will lead to a better-functioning scheme under clause 2. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 4, which allows Departments to make regulations jointly with two or more others, makes sense due to the”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I agree with what he said. As the Bill sponsor, it is a bit above my pay grade to know exactly where it sits in the Executive, but, as we know, the Minister for Communities has taken it on board. In fact, at the outset, I thought that the Bill would have sat better with the Health Department, but we are where we are. It is cross-cutting across all Departments. I believe that there will be agreement, so that no one Department will face the costs of it. The costs are not as great as we might have thought, but I will not speak on the costs today. I will do that at the next stage, as I did at the previous stage. I thank the Member for making that very valid point, and I am in complete agreement with what he said.”
“On the more substantive amendments, I thank the Minister for tabling amendment Nos 1 and 2.”
“They have made themselves available at any time for any discussions that were needed in order to move forward. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister stated, most of the amendments are technical in nature, so they do not require a lot of discussion. They have served as a good way for me to get more acquainted with the Interpretation Act (Northern Ireland) 1954. There is maybe one Member here who is more senior than me, and I am sure that he will know that piece of legislation from cover to cover. I recommend it to all Members, particularly any who suffer from insomnia”
“I thank everyone right across the House for their support, engagement and help. I thank Minister Deirdre Hargey for helping to bring the Bill through the Assembly. I know that there were difficulties with it. We have spoken about them. I spoke about them with the Chair of the Education Committee. I also got help from Pat Sheehan, and I pay tribute to him. I pay tribute to every single person who has helped to shape the Bill and to get it to where it is today. <BR /> <BR />I thank officials from the Department for Communities who gave up their time to work on the Bill. I especially thank Beverley, Dianne, Martina and Gerard. We have had a number of meetings over the past few weeks, and there were frank and open discussions about the amendments.”
“The motion to suspend Standing Order 42(1) is purely to do with scheduling. The Standing Order requires there to be five days between legislative stages. That means that, following its Consideration Stage last week, ordinarily, the earliest that my Bill could be brought forward for Further Consideration Stage would be tomorrow, 16 March. However, given the huge amount of business that we are required to get through before the end of the mandate, the Business Committee felt that there would be more time for the Further Consideration Stage to be taken today. The motion will require cross-community support, and I ask that it be approved.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. My point of order is the same as that of the Member for North Belfast. Can you advise whether or not it was in order for Mr Wells, a signatory to the motion, to impugn the motives of a serving civil servant who cannot be here to address that? It is something similar, but I think that it needs to be answered.”
“At that Committee meeting, the official stated that it was within her capacity to spend that money. I say that to reinforce what the Member for North Belfast stated. I thank her for giving way. I wanted to clarify that point.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I was at the same Finance Committee meeting. Does he agree with me that, while the witness herself may have referred to 18 people, there was no correspondence from her to the Committee on how many people wanted that? She tried to explain that that money was spent on forward planning, and not just on Irish language but to update that which was written in English.”
“I thank the Member for Upper Bann for giving way. As you know, I have a private Member's Bill going through the House. It has taken me about 18 months of work to get it here. For the first three years of my being here, I was not allowed to come to the House and fulfil my role as an MLA for Lagan Valley. At the end, I have found it difficult as well, because of the removal of our First Minister. Does the Member agree that, because of the time that there was to introduce a private Member's Bill — 18 months or two years — there was always going to be congestion? I support the Member who has brought this proposal for this Bill today. I hope that you agree with me.”
“I will behave myself. <BR /> <BR />It is not the lottery that I want to do but next week's Queen Mother Champion Chase at Cheltenham.”
“That is what is at stake, and I hope that I can continue to count on your support.”
“This is an example of what happens when Members in this place work together, as we saw last night with Pam Cameron's Autism (Amendment) Bill. I applaud her for the work that was done on that Bill. I am grateful for the support that I have received from across the House. I am hopeful that we can set that tone for the future and put people first. <BR /> <BR />I started the Second Stage debate by saying that the Bill is about:”
“That is to give time for consultation for Departments, guidance to be produced for the named bodies and for the named bodies to produce their statement as to how they will comply with the duty in 2(3), before 2(3) commences under clause 9(2) within two years. <BR /> <BR />I am working with Members and Departments on any other changes that are required to get this proposal across the line. I hope that I have shown a willingness to listen to Members' views in the spirit of working with all parties on this.”
“I have been clear that, if a form of words can be found that includes "women" and "girls", and allows products to be provided to all who need them, I would have no issue with including it in the Bill. I believe that amendment No 15 achieves that. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 16 is clarification of the definition of the "Health and Social Care Trust", which was asked for by the Department of Health. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 17, though not technically required, adds clarity to the definition of a public service body that was required by the Departments. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 18 aims to clarify the commencement of the different clauses of the Bill. Clause 2(1) states that Departments must name public service bodies that will fall under the duty in clause 2(3) within one year.”
“It is important to note that this is not about creating overbearing mechanisms, but about front-loading openness and transparency to allow Departments to run the scheme in the most effective ways. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 13 is a technical change, asked for by the Department of Education, to allow Departments to issue guidance with one or more Departments. <BR /> <BR />I listened to the comments made by various Members in the Second Stage debate. I have also taken the time to speak to many of the campaigners and other groups with regard to the language used in the Bill. I have always said that the impact that the Bill will have on women and girls is undeniable.”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment No 11 clarifies that public service bodies must provide products to persons on their premises. The Department of Education asked for that clarification so that schools would not be required to provide products for the general public, as that would cause an obvious safeguarding issue. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 12 is a new clause requiring the Executive to report on the operation of the duties in the Bill. The report would include the number of public bodies that have been specified by each Department and would also provide an opportunity for a complete review of the costs and the efficiency and effectiveness of the universal and the public body schemes.”
“We must be conscious of the need to reduce waste in our use of natural resources. Though this is allowed for, under the definition in clause 7(b), it is right to restate it throughout. <BR /> <BR />I move to my own amendments. Amendment No 2 removes "Health and Social Care Boards" from the requirement in clause 2. That was at the request of the Department of Health, as the boards are not public-facing and are due to finish. <BR /> <BR />Amendment Nos 3 and 6 are technical amendments to regularise the use of the phrase "public service bodies". Amendment No 7 is a requirement for Departments to review the list of public bodies that fall under the requirement in clause 2(1). That will allow new public service bodies to be added, if required.”
“I urge the Executive Office and the Minister to take ownership and responsibility for the delivery of the schemes and outcomes of the Bill for reasons outlined. I support amendment No 1 and look forward to engaging with the Ministers and the Executive Office to see the benefits of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Committee for Education for bringing forward its amendments. They highlight two very important areas of concern for people in this day and age. There is no doubt that the Assembly should grasp every opportunity to protect the privacy and confidentiality of our citizens. My Bill should be no different. The Committee's amendments will complement the protection of dignity already in the Bill. The same can be said for the need for the explicit reference to the use of "reusable" products.”
“A lot of the inspiration came from Monica, who carried out a lot of the work. The Aberdeen pilot that my costs are based on managed to average 9p per product for just over 1,000 participants. I would be extremely disappointed in our procurement process if we managed to average a significantly higher cost than that for 100 times the number of users. <BR /> <BR />Specifically regarding placing the universal duty with the Executive Office, I have had numerous discussions with the Chair of the Education Committee about cross-cutting schemes that fall between the cracks of departmental responsibility. I know that Deirdre will do her best and I thank the Minister for it, and we will push in order to get it to work. I have no fears for the Bill in that regard if amendment No 1 is passed.”
“Exactly the same could be said about menstrual health, yet the Department does not want to get involved. <BR /> <BR />I understand that the Department of Health has concerns about the financial impact of the Bill. In its evidence to the Committee, the Department of Health predicted that the cost would be anywhere between 4p and 49p per product. I argue that that seems an unacceptably wide range to use as the basis of any financial considerations. The Department went on to say that the range is not linked to the type of product but is based entirely on the procurement procedure and the cost savings in buying the products in large amounts. However, consider the Aberdeen pilot. I have to pause here and thank Monica Lennon, who took forward the Bill's equivalent in Scotland.”
“I cannot accept that a scheme to provide free period products would overburden a Department that provides free condoms to those who need them, particularly as I have in no way tied the Department's hands on how it should provide the products. I have simply said that it should provide them. I note that the South Eastern Trust website, in linking to the condom card scheme, states:”
“<BR /> <BR />As Homeless Period Belfast said — I thank especially young Katrina McDonnell, whom I met on Saturday at the International Women's Day event in Belfast — it is about making products available just like toilet paper. That, for me, is a health issue. Even if you do not agree that it is more about health than poverty, you must agree that not providing products to those who cannot access them certainly leads to outcomes that are health issues. <BR /> <BR />I do not deny that the issue is linked to poverty in the same way as cancer, obesity, heart disease, smoking and poor mental health are linked to poverty. Are those no longer health issues?”
“That is why it is heartening to have had the support of all parties. Too often, we focus on what divides us, so it has been nice, grand and great to see us all come together on this important issue. <BR /> <BR />On the amendments to be considered, I understand why Robbie Butler tabled amendment No 1. I do not deny the cross-cutting nature of the Bill; you only need to look at the fact that although the Committee for Education scrutinised the Bill, the Minister for Communities is leading the response to it. If the Bill was just about period poverty, I would be inclined to say that it leans towards being a poverty issue more than a health issue. However, the Bill goes beyond period poverty. It is about menstruation as a whole and about making products available to all who need them.”
“I particularly thank the campaigners who contributed. I have to thank Chris Lyttle MLA, who will be making way. You will be sadly missed — I know that you are not coming back — but it was an absolute privilege to see how you guided and chaired the Committee and worked the Bill through. I thank the campaigners who gave evidence at Committee Stage, particularly the young people who spoke about the impact of the Bill. I thank Chris again for his unwavering dedication to the issue. I thank the Committee members — a lot of them are present — who supported and scrutinised the Bill in order to make sure that it works in the best way possible. <BR /> <BR />The Bill will improve the lives of so many across Northern Ireland by providing period products to those who really need them.”
“I begin by thanking the staff in the Bill Office and the Committee staff, who have provided invaluable help and assistance throughout the process. I can say for sure that I would not have got to this stage without their help and guidance. I also thank the Business Office, the Speaker's Office and, indeed, you, Mr Speaker, for progressing the Bill to this stage, particularly when time in the Assembly has become so valuable. <BR /> <BR />As an ally, I feel privileged to be standing here to speak on International Women's Day. I am an ally. I am the brother of four sisters, the father of three daughters and the grandfather of three little girls, so I hope that whatever little change we make can help to make this world a better place. <BR /> <BR />A number of excellent and vital contributions were made at Committee Stage.”
“<BR /> <BR />I worked for years, and when I wrote out my cheque at the end of the year, it was to Her Majesty's Inspector of Taxes. I want that money to be distributed as fairly and equally as possible.”
“I do not know what way the electorate in Lagan Valley will vote or how the election will work out. I am, however, genuinely shocked. I look over to the party to my left, and, I have to say, I am really disappointed that we do not have an Executive so that we can collectively do our best. <BR /> <BR />When I was first elected, I went for three years without a chance to speak in the House. If we want to make this place better, there is £43 billion to be spent over a three-year Budget, which we are unable to implement. A golden opportunity has been missed. We need to do better, folks. I hope that we do come back and that Members catch hold of their senses and see the opportunities that we can give when we try collectively, all of us together, because that is the only way we will get those opportunities.”