Martin McGuinness
Mid Ulster · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“It was noted that full sectoral audits had been carried out by Departments of the Executive and the Irish Government to identify impacts, risks, opportunities and contingencies that may arise following the UK's intended withdrawal from the EU.”
“<BR /> <BR />We welcome the establishment by Minister Heather Humphreys and Minister Chris Hazzard of an Ulster canal advisory forum, which met for the first time on 23 September 2016.”
“That is something that has never been previously asked. It is interesting that the Member has chosen to call for that. From our perspective, we will have a discussion.”
“We also have 220 people now employed at that centre. They are people of the highest specialisms imaginable in medicine. The dedication that they have to that centre is absolutely amazing.”
“The big decision that was taken by both Administrations at the North/South Ministerial Council meeting — by the Executive Office, the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Foreign Affairs — was to put a high-level working group of civil servants in place to deal with the challenges that clearly lie ahead.”
“<BR /> <BR />The oversight board led by Dick Spring and the interdepartmental group set up in both jurisdictions have worked hard to get us to this stage, and I can give assurances that our Executive will continue to give their support to ensure that we deliver the best bid possible.”
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“All those matters will be considered as we go forward in the second phase. In the aftermath of that, we will have a further conversation about how we take the whole process forward. I am satisfied that the public are content thus far. I have not heard that criticism from anybody in the group of 810 who made submissions. I am quite willing to listen to what they have to say. In the time ahead, there will be opportunities for people to have their say on these matters.”
“The public have declared themselves totally satisfied, in the main, with our approach in relation to the outcome of the first consultation, which drew in something like 810 submissions.”
“It left the Executive, and, of course, the SDLP, which was part of the process of deciding on this way forward, without any objection, decided in the aftermath of the election that it would chicken out of the Executive also.”
“The parties to the Fresh Start Agreement last autumn agreed that a Programme for Government framework adopting an outcomes-based approach would be developed. All of the parties on the previous Executive were involved in a detailed process to develop the draft framework, and the parties continued to engage actively throughout the development phase until the framework was concluded after the election. None of those involved in the process expressed reservations during the engagement period, so the parties that are now expressing opposition to the draft Programme for Government framework are either being opportunistic or did not understand the process in which they were engaged. It was significant that the Ulster Unionist Party chickened out of membership of the Executive.”
“Of course, that is something that we are tremendously interested in, not just us here but, obviously, the Government in the South. I suppose the Member will be aware that planning applications have been made North and South and are under consideration. We await the outcome of that with considerable interest.”
“Work will continue, led by senior officials in relevant Departments, to identify key stakeholders and partners and to further refine the delivery plans to help to ensure that we put in place the collaborative partnership and actions needed to deliver against the desired outcomes. The Executive will also shortly consult on an economic strategy, an investment strategy and a social strategy, and further development of each of those will be coordinated with the Programme for Government and the Budget process.”
“The extensive consultation that took place in the first stage will now continue during the next phase, and we are heartened by the interest and the support that there is in relation to how we move all of this forward. As I have clearly indicated, there is now a further public consultation on the full Programme for Government. That is under way and will run until 23 December. The First Minister's and my aim is to have a final version approved by the Executive and endorsed by the Assembly after we have had the opportunity to consider the funding position around the end of the year. To that end, we will engage with as many groups and individuals as possible on the Programme for Government framework over the course of the consultation. <BR /> <BR />As with the consultation process, we want as many people as possible to have their say.”
“<BR /> <BR />The programme agreed by the Executive is highly cross-cutting and collaborative, with joined-up working across departmental boundaries and with dynamic partnerships being formed with local government, the community and voluntary sector and the private sector. It is a new way of doing government, and the Executive are committed to ensuring that it translates into better services and better outcomes for all. We want this to be a Programme for Government in which everyone plays a part. People can do that right now by engaging in the consultation and by telling us about the things that matter most to them and how we can make them better.”
“The consultation on the draft Programme for Government was launched on 20 October and will run for eight weeks until 23 December. It is clear, even at this early stage, that there continues to be strong support for the use of an outcome-based methodology and developing the programme and the opportunities that it affords for collaborative working and helping to make people's lives better. It is clear that people and organisations are on board with our approach, and we are greatly encouraged by the levels of engagement from every sector. Over 800 responses were received to the earlier consultation conducted on the draft Programme for Government framework, with almost all indicating support for the approach being taken.”
“With your permission, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, junior Minister Fearon will answer the question.”
“The current arrangements have, thus far, found favour with the Assembly, but we are absolutely open to further discussion about that.”
“Section 30 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 provides for a motion for a resolution of the Assembly that a Minister or junior Minister no longer enjoys its confidence due to a failure to observe the terms of the ministerial pledge of office. As I said, that mechanism can be triggered with the support of at least 30 Members and can result in the exclusion of a Minister from office for a period of time, a reduction in their remuneration or censure in the Chamber.”
“More importantly, the Assembly has decided that they are fit for purpose. The First Minister and I are in agreement that the current mechanisms relating to how alleged breaches of the ministerial code are dealt with, as provided for in the Northern Ireland Act 1998, are fit for purpose. They provide the appropriate level of safeguarding that, when an allegation is made that a Minister had breached an element of the ministerial code, such an allegation will be dealt with appropriately, robustly and fairly. <BR /> <BR />Members will be aware that the Assembly, rather than the First Minister and I, ultimately has the authority to adjudicate on alleged breaches of the ministerial code.”
“I do not think that that is an appropriate question in the context of the question that has been asked by Steven Agnew. I note that there is an opportunity for a Member of the Ulster Unionist Party to ask a question during topical questions. If that person chooses to ask that question at that time, I will answer it.”
“My answer today is quite clearly on behalf of the First Minister and me; we have agreed to meet the Member. There have obviously been previous discussions in the Assembly about extending the role of the commissioner but that did not find favour with the Assembly. If there is a complaint against a Minister, the Assembly has the power to gather signatures from 30 people. The matter can then be brought to the Assembly and it will be for the Assembly to decide what action needs to be taken. <BR /> <BR />The important thing is that I conceded during the previous Question Time that it was an issue for the Member and that we were willing to discuss it. We have agreed to have the meeting. If any others in the House feel as strongly as the Member, we are very willing to include them in that meeting if that is acceptable to the Member.”
“The Member will be aware that a meeting between us has now been arranged. I look forward to hearing his views on how alleged breaches of the ministerial code should be investigated.”
“I would have been very surprised if West Tyrone had not been mentioned in that supplementary question. Obviously, a collaborative approach is very important. We have often said that, even against the backdrop of our phenomenal success at a time of world economic downturn, when we have managed to bring in more foreign direct investment, mainly from the United States of America, than at any other time in the history of the state, the backbone of our economy is our indigenous businesses all around the North, including those in West Tyrone, Fermanagh and South Tyrone and Mid Ulster. I absolutely appreciate the massive contribution that they have made. They are very appreciative of the consultative process and the outcomes-based process that we have engaged in, and I am sure that their voices will be heard loud and clear at the end of that.”
“I hear some sniggering from those who are totally at odds with where the vast bulk of our community is. The stakeholders — the business community, educational establishments, the community and voluntary sector, the farming organisations — all appreciate the fact that they have been consulted not once but twice and will be able to have their say in the formation of the Programme for Government. In my opinion, it is going very well, and that appears to be much to the annoyance of some people in the opposition parties.”
“Things are going very well. We have been through the first phase of the consultation.”
“They are stakeholders in our peace process through the massive investments in INTERREG programmes, infrastructural projects, Peace funds and so forth. All that has contributed, along with all the other initiatives, to the transformation that has taken place over the last almost 20 years. People in Europe are under no illusions about the special nature of the problems that we have to deal with.”
“The Member knows that I spent last Tuesday at the European Parliament engaged in 14 meetings, including meetings with some of the key negotiators on behalf of the European Parliament when the negotiations begin. I have to say that there was a very hard-line position towards the British Government from almost everybody I met. That does not mean to say that it will be a hard-line position when it comes to triggering article 50 of the Lisbon treaty. All of us who have been through negotiations know how all of this works. <BR /> <BR />At the moment, the important thing from our perspective is that there is an appreciation among the powers that be in Europe of the fantastic achievements that we have had here through Peace and so forth in which they have made a major contribution.”
“The prospect of the Brexit negotiations impacting on the political, social and economic life of the people of the North is so profound that we have a duty to work together to ensure that the interests of the people we represent are protected. The best way forward in this — I do not know whether it is possible to do it — and the strongest hand that we can play in any negotiation will be if we can come to an agreement between ourselves and with the Irish Government on what the ask is from our perspective. We will get the first indication of where all this is going when the First Minister and I attend the meeting of the Joint Ministerial Committee, which will be chaired by the Prime Minister on Monday next week.”
“It is quite obvious that, in the upcoming discussions, we will make the case that, effectively, we are a special case. That is identified by the fact that the First Minister and I have written jointly to the British Prime Minister outlining quite a number of areas of concern, including our concern at the prospect that there might be a border of any description. It is also worth noting that, last week on RTÉ, Jeffrey Donaldson on two occasions made it clear that he thinks that the island of Ireland needs to be treated as a special case. He repeated that in Brussels 24 hours later. <BR /> <BR />We are a special case.”
“I have no doubt that there are people in paramilitary organisations involved in that type of activity. I am also conscious of the so-called dissident groups in west Belfast who, day and daily, extort money from the business community in that area, as they have done in other parts of the North of Ireland. It should come as no surprise to anybody — it comes as no surprise to me — that there are still people who are active in the UDA and dissident groups who prey on society. The question is whether the people who are involved in the implementation of the SIF programme in east Belfast are doing so in a way that ensures that every penny of that money goes towards the cause that they have taken up in that area. In this instance, 300 people will be given work placements with a real prospect of getting a full-time job afterwards.”
“It is at the expense of local communities.”
“They have seized on the name of one person who was convicted in the past, but that raises a wider question: if we were to disbar people who were convicted of incidents that occurred during the conflict from contributing to society, we would be running against the recommendations of the three-person panel, which dealt with that issue of reintegrating people into society. It was also about asking the First Minister and me to write to the US authorities so that people who were being denied a visa could visit the United States. In many ways, this represents a cheap, point-scoring exercise, mainly at the expense of the —”
“We have extensively covered that question in the proceedings today. I am disappointed that the Member thinks that the question was not answered, but, in my opinion, it was answered adequately. We put in place a SIF programme that has been of immense benefit to people all over the North of Ireland. The Member's party, from the outset, was opposed to it, describing it as a slush fund for paramilitaries, which does a massive disservice to all the good people throughout the North of Ireland who, day and daily, make a contribution to making life better for the people in their communities. <BR /> <BR />They have seized on one issue in east Belfast. Nobody is questioning the bona fides of the Charter group, which is charged with taking forward that aspect of the SIF programme in east Belfast. Nobody has questioned their bona fides whatsoever.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, junior Minister Fearon will answer that question.”
“Unfortunately, that was absent from the recent Tory party conference, which, ironically, was held at the part-EU-funded Birmingham International Convention Centre.”
“The EU referendum result has, unfortunately, resulted in significant uncertainty and worry amongst migrant communities regarding their legal status, rights and entitlements. It has also heightened fears of racism and hate crime. Of course, there is a duty on all of us in politics to show positive leadership.”
“You should not speak when I am speaking; I am trying to finish the answer. The visit to Brussels, for example, which was led by the leader of the Member's party, saw at least half the delegation made up of people who voted for Brexit. I listened to the leader's interview afterwards, where he outlined the need for huge funds to be poured into infrastructure projects, yet one infrastructure project the Ulster Unionist Party had control over during the last Administration and that it had no intention of ever delivering was the A5. We are now going to deliver it.”
“It is common knowledge that a number of issues were not achieved during the last Administration for various reasons. The Member mentioned the situation at Maze/Long Kesh. His party played a leading role in scuttling that project, because a key element of it was the removal of the Royal Ulster Agricultural Society from the King's Hall to Maze/Long Kesh alongside the establishment of a peace-building and conflict resolution centre, which was opposed by the Member's party. It was not the only party to oppose it; other interest groups outside also opposed it.”
“My understanding is that the Programme for Government had success of something like 80-odd per cent.”
“The key point, as the Member well knows, is this: we had a situation in the run-in to the referendum whereby the two Executive parties were on different sides of the debate. The Member can shake his head all he likes, but that is the reality. Even if the document had been completed and offered up to the First Minister and me, if there was no agreement about the publication of that document, I was not going to leak it because it was to my advantage, even though it would have been to our advantage. That is the way we work, and I understand there are other parties here that have seized on this issue, that were part of the Administration and that, when they were part of the Administration, were leaking right, left and centre.”
“I think I referred to that earlier when it was addressed by Stephen Farry. With the new Administration, that has been in place since May of this year, there is a duty and a responsibility to respond as quickly as possible. You should not read anything into the fact that the paper was produced as a result of the freedom of information request after the referendum date, because the key point is —”
“Simply because, as I have said, the report was commissioned by the head of the Civil Service and was being compiled by the European policy and co-ordination unit, but it was never completed. Officials prepare a range of papers on a regular basis, many of which are working papers and do not form submissions sent to Ministers, and certainly never before they are completed.”
“It was not completed because, as I said, a number of Departments that had been requested to contribute to it did not respond to the request. Therefore, because they did not respond, the document was not considered by the head of the Civil Service to be complete.”
“We are not talking about a completed document. We are talking about a document that was initially put forward by the head of the Civil Service. There is an awful lot of misinformation being propagated about this document.”
“<BR /> <BR />The important point is that it was not something that was rigidly adhered to in the context of the last Administration, which was a five-party coalition, because in that coalition there were countless occasions when at least two out of the three parties that did not take up seats in this Executive were leaking right, left and centre. That is not the way we do business. If a report is put forward for our consideration and if we get into a scenario where we are leaking against one another because the outcome of that report advantages one particular political party, then all confidence is lost within the Administration. <BR /> <BR />This was a paper that was not even completed, for the simple reason that a number of Departments that had been requested to contribute their analysis to the paper had not actually done so.”
“I do not think I ever claimed that I had sight of the paper. It was quite obvious in the answers that have been given since that neither the First Minister and myself were involved in seeing the outcome. The report was compiled by the European policy and co-ordination unit. Officials prepare a range of papers on a regular basis, many of which are working papers and do not form submissions sent to Ministers. Of course, in the absence of an agreed position, the report could not have been disclosed to the Executive, the Committee for the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister or the Assembly.”
“I do not know that that question is even remotely relevant to the first question.”
“This analysis paper was not sent to Ministers or their special advisers. Following a freedom of information request to the Department we became aware of this work. The document was released on two occasions following freedom of information requests.”
“Worse still is the pretence that there is an IRA when, quite clearly, the IRA has long-since left the stage and handed over the responsibility for the politics of the North of Ireland to the 108 Members in the House. We have loads of credibility, and it was tested at the election just a few short months ago, along with the Member's credibility. He was returned by himself; I was returned with 28 Members, and the DUP with many more.”
“When we agreed to establish a three-person panel to put in place a strategy to bear down on criminality in all areas, including areas of disadvantage, it was in the sure knowledge that those on the group — and I think that Lord Alderdice, John McBurney and Monica McWilliams did wonderful work — clearly identified in their work the issues that the Member referred to. We are dealing with it in a much more comprehensive fashion through trying to implement the findings of the three-person panel.”
“These are all matters that we will deal with in the time ahead. Consideration has been given, at every stage, to how we will deal with that. In the past, sanctions did not work. The only real sanction, when dealing with groups still committed to criminality and violence, is the will of the community, working with the Government, the PSNI and the gardaí in the South. We need to ensure that the ultimate sanction is one that puts us in the driving seat as opposed to those who are still involved in these activities. I have considerable confidence that the implementation of the strategy on tackling paramilitarism and criminality can work through the collaborative approach. That is the ultimate sanction.”
“We are absolutely determined to continue with this work in the belief that, ultimately, those who are in favour of peaceful and democratic processes will prevail over those who, through their criminality, try to undermine the potential of our society to deliver for themselves.”
“The fact that we dealt with this in the Fresh Start Agreement and came to an agreement on how we need to move forward, with the support of the Irish and British Governments and, of course, the PSNI and the Garda Síochána, means that it is clear that we accepted that more needed to be done. I laid before the Assembly today exactly what plans we have put in place: the establishment of a four-person independent reporting commission. We will contribute two names to that; the Irish and British Governments will contribute two names. That is a determined effort by us, as a Government, to work collaboratively with everybody who agrees with us that paramilitarism, criminality and criminal gangs are a scourge on our society.”
“In July 2016, the Executive published an action plan, 'Tackling Paramilitary Activity, Criminality, and Organised Crime', which set out the measures that we will take to implement the panel's recommendations. Work is under way to take forward a number of measures this year and to develop detailed costs of programmes to be put in place from 2017-18 onwards.”
“As far as I am concerned, that is a valuable programme. If people are contributing to that in a positive way, alongside other representatives from the community, that is to be welcomed. If we were to employ a rule of thumb that everybody who was involved in conflict in the past has no role to play in the future, I am afraid that there would be no future for any of us.”
“I have no doubt whatsoever about the First Minister's commitment to the disbandment of paramilitary organisations — none whatsoever — and I do not think that she has any doubt whatsoever about my commitment to stand against them. Anybody who is involved in a paramilitary organisation or criminal gang is working against the interests of the people whom we in the Assembly represent. Yes, there are people out there who are still dedicated and committed to trying to bring these institutions down and plunge us back to the past. I saw how, rather pathetically, an attempt was made to portray what was happening in east Belfast as something other than putting in place a work programme that was about giving employment opportunities to people previously unemployed, giving them a real opportunity to go on to full-time employment.”