Roy Beggs
East Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I declare an interest as owner of 25 acres of agricultural land; also, my parents run a small agricultural business. <BR /> <BR />There is a shortage of fertiliser, and the Minister has referred to the present difficulties in Ukraine that are contributing to that. That shortage exists even at the exorbitant cost of £1,000 per ton.”
“of public bodies in Northern Ireland. That is vital in order to reassure the public that money is being spent appropriately. That is to be done independently.”
“There has been a very close working relationship and a close partnership. Where issues needed highlighted and where the Assembly, through its scrutiny mechanisms, needed to dig deeper to get better value and better accountability, that occurred.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also want to reflect on the close working relationship that there has been between the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Northern Ireland Audit Office, which the C&AG oversees and manages, and the Assembly, particularly the Public Accounts Committee.”
“As we consider this motion to nominate a new Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland, it is important that we reflect on the importance that the role has in any democracy. The C&AG in Northern Ireland is the head of the Northern Ireland Audit Office.”
“P&O has brutally cast its workforce aside in a Dickensian fashion. There was no consultation or notice, and the company delivered a live message by video link. Will the Minister clarify whether the P&O redundancy announcement is covered by maritime law, Northern Ireland employment law or GB employment law?”
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“I declare an interest as owner of 25 acres of agricultural land; also, my parents run a small agricultural business. <BR /> <BR />There is a shortage of fertiliser, and the Minister has referred to the present difficulties in Ukraine that are contributing to that. That shortage exists even at the exorbitant cost of £1,000 per ton. I learned this morning that Canada is advising its farmers to plant only 60% of their crop because of the shortage of fertiliser there. What role can government play in ensuring that supermarkets bear a fair proportion of the costs? If the costs are shared, they will not fall solely on the producer while the supermarkets continue to make exorbitant profits.”
“There has been a very close working relationship and a close partnership. Where issues needed highlighted and where the Assembly, through its scrutiny mechanisms, needed to dig deeper to get better value and better accountability, that occurred. <BR /> <BR />It is vital that, going forward, anyone who occupies the post remain entirely independent of government, view the money being spent as the public's money and their own money and ensure that good value for money is achieved and that the money is authorised appropriately and spent well. I hope that anyone who takes up the post will continue to have that close working relationship with the Public Accounts Committee, for the benefit of the Assembly and to have credibility with the public through trying to improve how our money is being spent.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also want to reflect on the close working relationship that there has been between the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Northern Ireland Audit Office, which the C&AG oversees and manages, and the Assembly, particularly the Public Accounts Committee. I have served on a number of Public Accounts Committees, and I have had very close relationships with the Northern Ireland Audit Office and Kieran Donnelly in the period since 2009 in which he has served as C&AG. I was on the Public Accounts Committee from 2007 to 2011 and from 2014 to 2016, and I am on the current Public Accounts Committee. I have the highest regard for the work of our outgoing C&AG, and I hope that anyone who occupies the position in the future will take lessons from what has occurred during his tenure.”
“of public bodies in Northern Ireland. That is vital in order to reassure the public that money is being spent appropriately. That is to be done independently. It is vital that the Audit Office be independent of government so that it can state how things are — warts and all, if necessary — and so that it can independently advise what changes are needed in order to make better use of public funding. <BR /> <BR />The NIAO also has the useful role of providing advice and support to the Assembly. On some occasions, we perhaps do not spend money well, and the Audit Office produces many value-for-money reports for us. A further core function is to build better corporate governance and financial control arrangements. In particular, there is a need to counter the risk of fraud. An audit office therefore plays a vital role in any democracy.”
“When I look at the core functions of the Northern Ireland Audit Office, I see that one is to:”
“As we consider this motion to nominate a new Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland, it is important that we reflect on the importance that the role has in any democracy. The C&AG in Northern Ireland is the head of the Northern Ireland Audit Office. Together, the C&AG and the NIAO carry out the vital role of scrutinising how public money is spent, in order to ensure that those in authority, whether they be Ministers, senior civil servants or those involved in public bodies, spend that money appropriately, with the appropriate authorisation, and that it is being used effectively. We have to remember that, ultimately, this is the public's money. It is money that is being raised in taxes, and it is right that how it is being spent should be independently reviewed.”
“I acknowledge that it is important that there are widespread resurfacing schemes, but it is equally important that potholes are repaired on a timely basis to remove the risk that they present to road safety. Along with that, there is the significant cost of having to repair such a deep gouge in a road and the possible cost of damage to vehicles. What assessment has been made of the overall cost of allowing potholes in rural roads to get to 50 millimetres before they are repaired?”
“P&O has brutally cast its workforce aside in a Dickensian fashion. There was no consultation or notice, and the company delivered a live message by video link. Will the Minister clarify whether the P&O redundancy announcement is covered by maritime law, Northern Ireland employment law or GB employment law? There seems to be a variety of thoughts on that. <BR /> <BR />Regarding disruption to trade, our supply chain is exposed because no replacement crew has been approved to operate that passenger vessel safely. Will the Minister get in touch with Her Majesty's Government so that nothing like that can ever expose Northern Ireland again?”
“I support the Bill in order to protect our drivers and ensure that as many as possible can continue to get to their work and can afford a means of transport to do so.”
“I and my Ulster Unionist colleagues continue to support the Bill as it proceeds through the Assembly and I now at Final Stage. It tries to put right some of the implications of the Vnuk court judgement of 2014. Corresponding legislation is at an advanced stage at Westminster — a private Member's Bill that has been widely supported. Even in Europe, an amending directive was taken forward on 2 December 2021. <BR /> <BR />As others have said, without the legislation the Motor Insurers' Bureau would become liable for a wide range of additional accidents on private land. It is vital that we protect our drivers against that. It could result in an additional £50 on every insurance policy for a private vehicle. As has been said, there are already huge pressures on drivers, given escalating fuel costs.”
“— to the question on legal costs, but there is an additional cost for transport arrangements and bureaucracy across business, with some suppliers not even continuing to supply Northern Ireland. What assessment has there been of the detrimental impact on the Northern Ireland economy and to the public, who cannot even buy some plants in garden centres?”
“I welcome the improvement in broadband services generally. However, I understand that, in GB, 100% of homes will have access to a broadband service of 2 megabits per second or greater. Even after Project Stratum, approximately 2% of homes in Northern Ireland will still have a relatively poor broadband service with such a slow speed. Others, like me, have an unreliable broadband service — I declare an interest — of less than 10 megabits per second. My question is this: what options will exist for people who still have a poor broadband service to enable them to get the high-speed service that the Minister alludes to?”
“I have welcomed the opportunity for the Public Accounts Committee to present to the Assembly some of the key aspects of its work over the past two years. I hope that lessons will be learned for the benefit of the public.”
“Those reports are 'Addiction Services in Northern Ireland'; 'Closing the Gap — Social Deprivation and Links to Educational Attainment'; 'Sports Sustainability Fund', 'The Northern Ireland Budget Process'; 'Broadband Investment in Northern Ireland'; and 'Planning in Northern Ireland'. We will draw that response to the attention of the subsequent Public Accounts Committee so that it can appropriately scrutinise those areas.”
“Those include ensuring that business cases are realistic and have all the required information and ensuring that the skills that are required to manage that area are available; ensuring that there is good governance; and being aware of the need to identify early warning signs of inefficiencies or that projects are starting to veer off course so that rectifying action can be taken at an early stage. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, the Public Accounts Committee legacy report will include seven reports that have received a memorandum of reply. An additional six reports have still to complete their process. We will receive a response back from the Department of Finance on the recommendations.”
“It became apparent from our report on capacity and capability that there was a need for a change at a higher level. I do not recall this happening before, but I was pleased that the Public Accounts Committee engaged with the head of the Civil Service on those issues in order that she was fully aware of some of our areas of concern. A further meeting is scheduled for Tuesday 8 March with Ms Brady at which the Public Accounts Committee will review how she is progressing on the areas that we presented to her as requiring change.”
“There is a danger of all public bodies and civil servants becoming risk-averse. It is important that we bring about change, which involves some risk. The point was well made that we should make that a calculated risk. The Minister also said that he wished that some of his reforms were further ahead but that COVID had contributed to some delays. He was hopeful that, going forward, those delays could be overcome and that he could get back on his intended path. He said that it is important that the Department works well with bodies such as local government — he mentioned city deals as an example of that — and that ethical standards are maintained across the Civil Service. <BR /> <BR />Mr Humphrey mentioned that we had engaged with the head of the Civil Service.”
“He highlighted the need for the PSNI, the PPS and the Courts and Tribunals Service to work more collaboratively to ensure that, collectively, they provide a better service. There can be no doubt about that. It is not just about the cost, which is an important element; we also have to think of the victims who suffer during those delays. He made the very important point that many relevant bodies need to work together in the public interest. Again, the issue of silo working was highlighted in the 'Speeding up the Justice System' report. <BR /> <BR />The Minister of Finance talked about risk and how it was important that we should not be risk-averse but take appropriate risk. We have to embrace change and take some risk. We need to be careful about what we do. That is the clear message that should go out to everyone.”
“That must be becoming clearer to everyone, especially as we have just spent two days talking about climate change and its implications. Going forward, this will be an increasingly important area. He also highlighted the need for awareness across Departments when bringing in new funding, to ensure that all cross-cutting issues are addressed. When we examined that report, we saw how public funding was given to some projects that did not have all the necessary planning or environmental requirements in place. Clearly, there is a need to be more careful in stipulating requirements before funding is approved and handed over. <BR /> <BR />David Hilditch concentrated on delays in Crown Court cases. He said that we were taking twice as long to dispose of such cases as our counterparts in England and Wales, which brought with it an additional cost.”
“Everyone agrees with that, and that urgency is becoming even more apparent to everyone. He highlighted the fact that public inquiries and judicial reviews are also causing delays. He said that it is important to learn from those, and I agree. He said that it is important that there is public access to legal process so that no inappropriate decisions occur. There is a need for balance: how do we ensure that we protect the public interest against not just bad decision-making but undue delays? That will have to be resolved. It is certainly having an impact on large projects, and we need to do things better than they are being done at present. <BR /> <BR />William Irwin focused on the 'Generating Electricity from Renewable Energy' report. He spoke about the importance of renewable energy, particularly in reducing emissions.”
“That meant that other capital investment could not occur because it had been sucked up into some of the large investments. He also said that we needed to look more carefully at the capital spending left at the end of the year. In the past, moneys were returned unspent, and he said that it was almost by accident this year that we managed to balance out and not lose some of that funding. Clearly, there are many challenges going forward. <BR /> <BR />Mr McHugh spoke on the report on 'Major Capital Projects' and highlighted the delays to Casement Park, the A5, the Strule educational site and the regional children's hospital. He focused on a couple of issues that were, he thought, contributing to those delays, particularly the need for planning reform and to speed up planning decisions.”
“We have had an outcome there, and I am delighted about that. It is important that we contribute to change. <BR /> <BR />Andrew Muir spoke about the 'Major Capital Projects' report and the report on 'Capacity and Capability in the Northern Ireland Civil Service'. I agree that there is an overlap between those reports, because it is clear to me, from reading the reports, that the lack of capacity has created some of the difficulties. Often, there was not strong leadership, not the correct skill set to deliver and no experience to deal with the sheer scale of some of the projects. In particular, Ulster University's rebuild project in Belfast was plagued with problems, and the cost was ultimately paid from the public purse.”
“That recommendation was accepted by the Department of Education, and it will be commissioned by DE to address the specific elements and will be delivered in phases. Among the areas covered is an external review of:”
“Mrs Montgomery, the principal of Belfast Boys' Model School, indicated how she had to fight to get autonomy with that budget each year, but she also demonstrated how much better use she had made of that budget by employing additional teachers for some one-to-one learning, small group classes and, indeed, some classroom assistants. I was pleased that that was taken on board by the Public Accounts Committee report, which recommended an:”
“She said that she would much rather have the money to decide so that she could make better use of it for the benefit of those children. Ms O'Hara, the former principal of Hazelwood Integrated College, said:”
“<BR /> <BR />Subsequently, Ms Logue, the principal of Long Tower Primary School, when discussing the 'Closing the Gap' report, said:”
“A constituent had advised me about an issue involving special educational needs and had complained about multiple classroom assistants in post-primary school settings standing at the back of the classroom and not actually engaging. When I raised that during our evidence session, I got a wide range of comments, and a wide range of people agreed with me. The permanent secretary agreed that that does not show value for money. Mr Boyd, the former chief executive of the Education Authority, said, "You are absolutely right" and that it was one of the issues previously highlighted by a 2017 Audit Office report. Dr McMorran, who is a member of the Education Authority, said that I was absolutely right and that what I said was "100% true". He then said that it is a "total disgrace"; that is the language that he used.”
“Mr Humphrey focused on the 'Impact Review of Special Educational Needs' report. He highlighted the cross-cutting issues and, again, the need for collaboration, which is a constant theme in our reports. He later linked that to the report on 'Closing the Gap', where social deprivation and links to educational under-attainment are apparent. That is one of the additional six published reports that have yet to be fully responded to, but that will be done in the fullness of time. Mr Humphrey highlighted the fact that it is vital that we improve the lot of our young people. <BR /> <BR />The evidence sessions on special educational needs demonstrated to me how Committee members can bring their own experience and add to Northern Ireland Audit Office reports through our Committee work and our engagement with witnesses.”
“They included the need for strong and decisive leadership from the top to drive change; the need for the correct skill set and experience to deliver projects, particularly large-scale projects; the need to identify barriers at an earlier stage; and, most importantly, the need for collaboration across Departments and, for that matter, other public bodies.”
“The Committee was inhibited during this Assembly session, in that it has been operating for only the past two years, which included a period when COVID was at its height. Therefore, quite an extensive number of reports were completed. Many have finished the process and have received memorandums of response from Departments. Others still require a response. The PAC shone a light — a further light — on those areas, and it is evident that there is a gap between where the Northern Ireland Civil Service is now and where it needs to be. I noted the Minister's comments, and I hope that many of those gaps will be filled. <BR /> <BR />The Committee came across a range of themes.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank my fellow Public Accounts Committee members for their contributions today and for the way in which we have worked together to bring about improvements in a wide range of areas. It is clear from the Northern Ireland Audit Office reports that things have gone wrong on many occasions. It is important to focus on those mistakes and to contribute constructively to bringing about improvements. That is certainly how I saw our members working. As was said, I do not believe that we divided on any issue. We worked together in the interests of the public. <BR /> <BR />The Chairperson, Mr William Humphrey, began the debate by giving an overview of the seven PAC reports that have been brought before the House.”
“The risk of tidal surge has been mentioned, but there is also the issue of flash flooding. The Minister has a plan for the long term. What short-term action can be taken to mitigate flash flooding so that surges of water do not result in homes being flooded?”
“— so that we can have proper planning, employment of new staff and new arrangements to transform our healthcare and provide a much better service to our public.”
“We had been looking forward to a new Budget with the additional funds that were coming from the increases in National Insurance. I had hoped that those would go largely to our health service. I had also hoped that the health service could benefit from some of the other additional Barnett formula moneys that would have come to the Northern Ireland Executive. It is vital that we address our waiting lists but even more important that there should be a multi-year Budget —”
“I hope that the Minister will be able to assure us that the Vote on Account will enable Northern Ireland Water to avoid such emergency contingency planning in the next financial year. It is vital that we continue to treat sewage and, even more importantly, to provide fresh water to the Northern Ireland public. That is a pressure that any Budget should address. <BR /> <BR />Another area that strikes me as vital is Health. Everybody is aware of the difficulties that the health service has experienced. Elective surgery has had to be slowed down or stopped entirely.”
“<BR /> <BR />Another significant heading that has had changes in the spring Supplementary Estimates is Northern Ireland Water, which has received an additional £15 million from this publication. Northern Ireland Water has experienced particular difficulties. There was COVID, when it received a smaller income as businesses used less water. Recently, the big pressure has been energy costs. Northern Ireland Water is, I understand, Northern Ireland's largest consumer of electricity. As we all know, the cost of electricity has significantly increased. It is perfectly understandable and correct that the Executive should allocate additional money. Just before Christmas, Northern Ireland Water had to go through an exercise rehearsing what it would do if it could not make the January monitoring round.”
“That is a concern and an issue that needs to be addressed. <BR /> <BR />It would be useful to have an explanation for one other figure in the spring Supplementary Estimates. Under the heading of "Depreciation & Impairment Costs", the original figure was £168 million. However, the change in gross provision is £25 million. That is a very significant change under that heading. We are due an explanation of what has happened and what has gone wrong, in order to ensure that we do not make the same mistake again. That is money that was allocated to that heading but did not need to be drawn down, and perhaps it could have been allocated earlier to some other heading.”
“Public transport has been operating with lower passenger levels as a result of hybrid working or people working from home full-time. Alternatively, people may have been using other means of transport. If we wished to ensure that we provided public transport, for example, for NHS workers getting to our hospitals or other facilities or, indeed, just to help the economy, we still had to provide those buses and trains, even though they were not as busy as they otherwise would have been. I agree that that had to be done. It would be helpful if the Minister could indicate what funds might be available in the future to subsidise that area. I do not think that passenger numbers will return to what they were, and we will face difficult choices if there continue to be lower revenues from the transport.”
“My question to the Minister is whether, in the Vote on Account, there will be any funds for DVA for the future. There are unlikely to be any, but, hopefully, it will not need it. We should bear it in mind that, whilst we have allocated money to that area, I am not aware of additional moneys being allocated in the rest of the United Kingdom during that period. Garages continued to operate as normal, and MOT and PSV certificates were provided by the private sector. I am not aware of grants being paid there. <BR /> <BR />I turn to other areas where there are significant increases in funding. Under "Railway Services", there has been an increase of £47·5 million, and, under "Road Passenger Services", there has been an increase of £86 million.”
“I will concentrate my comments on the Department for Infrastructure, which I scrutinise in particular through my membership of the Infrastructure Committee. The spring Supplementary Estimates list a number of significant changes to the original figures, and I should like to go through some of them. <BR /> <BR />An additional £6·3 million has been allocated to the Driver and Vehicle Agency (DVA) in the spring Supplementary Estimates, which is an increase of almost a third. That is understandable, because DVA was operating with a reduced capacity during the COVID period and therefore will have received less income. I am, however, pleased that it is now working at full capacity and, indeed, with considerable overtime although, sadly not enough to meet the demand.”
“During Public Accounts Committee hearings, we discovered that there can be up to four classroom assistants standing at the back of classrooms in some post-primary schools. They are not engaging with pupils; they are there in case they are needed. Yet, some schools have been granted the flexibility to make much better use of that money and are already producing much better outcomes for those pupils. Does the Member agree that we have to maximise the use of resources and give flexibility to our principals so that they can help children who need additional assistance?”
“Will the Minister explain why he stopped the consultation on the draft Budget? Either current Ministers or a new set of Ministers will need to start to consult on the draft Budget. You are elongating any solution and finalisation of the funding that will go to Departments and, ultimately, to different groups, bodies and agencies.”
“He often made interventions to add to the debate, and he was always willing to give way. He was a very capable parliamentarian. His passing is a loss to the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />Christopher has passed on from this world at the young age of 39. My thoughts and prayers are with his wife, Laura, his young family, of whom he spoke often, his mother and the wider family circle, and his many friends, all of whom are grieving for him at this time.”
“I, like everyone, was shocked to learn of the passing of Christopher Stalford, our Principal Deputy Speaker. As a Deputy Speaker, I worked closely with Christopher as we endeavoured to provide a consistent and fair debating Chamber for all perspectives. Christopher had a great wit, and he had a turn of phrase that assisted him in managing all unruly MLAs. He had a great knowledge of procedures and points of order that left us Deputy Speakers often struggling to manage him. <BR /> <BR />I had a great regard for Christopher as an MLA and for his skills in the debating Chamber. He was very able and contributed to a very wide range of debates, making forceful arguments. Despite his young age, he had the presence of a seasoned barrister. He was very capable.”
“I note that clause 1 indicates, unusually, that it will not be applicable to accidents for which claims might come in historically, but I see just reason for that. I urge Members to support the legislation in order to keep costs down for everyone and for the households that already struggle to meet the wide range of increased costs they face as a result of increasing energy bills and other pressures on the economy.”
“Yes, we may pay higher or lower premiums, depending on the risk, but generally they are similar to the policies that exist UK-wide. I have concerns that, if we got to a situation in which there were significantly different risks in Northern Ireland, some policies might not renew in Northern Ireland and there would be less competition. <BR /> <BR />For a wide variety of reasons, I support the Minister in bringing forth this short Bill. As has been indicated, it has two clauses. We have been advised that it replicates the changes that are happening in GB. I view it as there being limited risk, and it is essential that we correct the error that was created some time ago by the unintended consequences of case law.”
“There would be a considerable widening of accidents, all of which would happen on private land. As others have indicated, that could make it much more troublesome to get independent confirmation of what had happened and increase the potential for fraud, as well as increasing our premiums. <BR /> <BR />A private Member's Bill that is going through Westminster is at an advanced stage. It will exempt policyholders in GB from the potential risks and, therefore, keep their premiums down. The question I pose is this: what would happen if Northern Ireland were not to provide that protection? Would we risk our involvement in the Motor Insurers' Bureau? That could be put at risk. In addition, many of our insurance policies are provided UK-wide.”
“That case law would result in additional accidents potentially drawing down funds from the collective payments that we all make — everyone who has private motor insurance contributes to a central pool to pay for accidents where there is no insurance or where the driver who caused the accident cannot be identified. The case law would considerably widen that to encompass many additional accidents on private land. It has been estimated that it will cost the UK as a whole £2 billion and cost individual insurance policyholders an additional £50 per annum for their motor insurance. <BR /> <BR />The accidents that would be covered would include those involving ride-on lawnmowers, motor sports, scramblers, trail bikes, golf buggies, scooters and, potentially — I pose the question — bicycles, if they were powered in some way.”
“Like other Members, I agree that we should all support the legislation. It is important that we do so. <BR /> <BR />Following the legal precedent of the Vnuk case, owners of motorised vehicles on private land, off public roads, are responsible for paying compensation. In the past, there were several routes to compensation from landowners or drivers, and many will have had separate insurance policies. However, the Vnuk case resulted in another route for compensation, the Motor Insurers’ Bureau, which was not established to insure vehicles off-road on private land.”
“Following the Vnuk case, everyone's motor vehicle insurance would have to increase by a further £50 to provide that cover at a time when many people already struggle with the many increases that have occurred. <BR /> <BR />As indicated, a private Member's Bill is proceeding at Westminster, and the Minister said that she had hoped that Northern Ireland would be included by means of a legislative consent motion. That has turned not to be the case. Indeed, Europe is also legislating to make a correction. That leaves Northern Ireland without that correction, and it is essential that we urgently pass the Bill. As I said, if we do not, everyone holding private motor insurance on a vehicle will face a significant increase. For that reason, I support the accelerated passage of the limited proposals that the Minister has placed before us.”