David Honeyford
Lagan Valley · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Ten years ago, the UK voted to leave the EU, and Northern Ireland was removed from the EU against its will. People will have voted for many reasons, but people were lied to.”
“Many families have spent the past decade worse off, and the loudest supporters of Brexit have punished them, while we have the likes of Farage appearing to be prospering personally. <BR /> <BR />Ten years on, the question is not whether Brexit was right or wrong, because the evidence is clear for everyone to see.”
“<BR /> <BR />The biggest cost of Brexit has been instability, which scares off investment. Since the Brexit referendum, the UK has had seven Prime Ministers, and we have had the Assembly collapse twice. Political uncertainty has become normal. However, when politics becomes unstable, ordinary people pay the price.”
“We need to see more happening, because east-west collaboration is already happening. We need more collaboration to grow our economy further, but talk is cheap. People say such lines on the news but then come to the Chamber and vote against collaboration.”
“Two and a half years into the term of this Executive, much of that remains missing. The same applies to waste water infrastructure and planning reform, with delays continuing to block growth and investment. We should do much more to collaborate North/South, as we do east-west, to improve people's lives.”
“The Executive are failing to provide certainty and follow-up on their commitments. My colleague Andrew Muir having had his green growth strategy blocked for over a year is just one example.”
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“I stress again that we need action to help, and we need to start allowing our businesses to trade, grow and flourish. Our hospitality businesses need that now. They expect the Minister and the Assembly to help. They need it now. That help can and should be delivered. <BR /> <BR />We can do that now in rates relief. The Alliance Party has continually called for the delivery of a small business rates review that will look at enabling a progressive rating system that is fair for all businesses, a system that is not a blunt instrument and that looks at a band with a progressive percentage rate that is fair for everyone. That would help to invigorate our high streets as the community assets that they are and to balance the burden of tax across our community. Our hospitality businesses need help now.”
“I am happy to support the motion, but we need to get real. Our hospitality businesses do not need photo opportunities, Facebook posts or tokenistic, populist calls and talk in here: they need help and action. They need the reduction in the tax burden that they have been calling for for a long time. Everyone agrees, but we need to see the action lived out into our businesses. We do not need more talk: we need delivery. <BR /> <BR />Businesses do not care what you call the tax. What affects them is the gross amount that they pay in tax, whether you call it "VAT", "rates" or "corporation tax". Whatever form it takes, it is the bottom line between profit and loss. It does not matter what you call that tax. We need to look at that. The elephant in the room is where the motion calls for Ministers to meet and discuss.”
“A week later, we debate a motion in which the Ulster Unionist Party asks for all-island alignment on taxation. I just do not get how that view can change in such a short time. That brings cynicism to politics in Northern Ireland that is not helpful.”
“I find it absolutely baffling that, last week, when we debated a motion on a shared island and discussed working together as an island to improve local public services, such as those in health, and our economy, the Ulster Unionist Party voted against it.”
“<BR /> <BR />However, that demographic means that the burden of taxation, whether in VAT, rates or corporation tax, falls heavily on our local hospitality businesses. They do not have either the buffer of the economies of scale of the larger chains in GB or the lower costs that come from their greater purchasing power. Importantly, post COVID, they have had neither the three years of 75% reduction in rates that businesses across the water have enjoyed nor the 50% reduction this year, which has not been replicated. <BR /> <BR />I find it frustrating when we talk about stuff and all agree but no action ever follows.”
“Most of our operators are local, and the national chains do not trade here, so most of our businesses are small in terms of turnover and jobs. That can be viewed as a risk for the industry, but it should be seen as a real positive and a strength for us, as each business offers a unique experience that is an expression of the community around it. We do not have repeats of the default chain offering in each of our towns and villages, but we have cracking local businesses. We have cracking pubs that produce high-quality food and drinks and that are part of the community in which they trade. It is local people about whom we are talking and supporting. We should thank those businesses and celebrate what they have achieved.”
“I have spoken on this issue before, and I have raised it a couple of times. The motion lays out the importance of hospitality and the stats on it, so I will not repeat them. As the economy spokesperson for Alliance, I regularly meet the industry. Only a matter of weeks ago, Colin Neill of Hospitality Ulster and I chatted through some of the issues. I listened again so that I could understand the concerns about the problems that the increase in employers' National Insurance contributions in the new financial year will cause to the industry. Ideally, this would be about the work that we can do to help. <BR /> <BR />It has been recognised that, compared with GB, we have a unique demographic of hospitality businesses.”
“I know that the question was about land, but I am more interested in Invest NI developing jobs and economic growth in the area. Minister, surely with dual market access, where we are selling products, we should be focused on expanding the manufacturing industry and providing the land to enable that. You have highlighted the regional property programme. However, to highlight my constituency of Lagan Valley, we are on the Belfast-Dublin economic corridor, yet we have next to no Invest NI land left. What can the Minister do to address that and help to bring jobs and investment, not just to Belfast but outside Belfast?”
“What is happening in the Department that will allow staff in our schools to be trained in that area in order to keep them up to date with the latest jobs so that they are able to give the best advice to pupils?”
“I was going to say half-jokingly that the sixth form at Laurelhill has never been the same since the Minister was there. I agree with him on quite a bit of what he said about pathways, but we are talking about pathways for a child and how the focus should be on the child and what they are going to do. Our teaching staff do an incredible job, and I am not in any way saying that they do not, but how do the teaching staff in a school keep up to date with the latest jobs in the economy and the shaping of that economy?”
“We need to focus on an all-island economy that exports to GB and has dual-market access and exports to the EU and world markets. We do not have manufacturing or dual-market access strategies, however. A lot of the manufacturing in the South is outside Dublin, so this would all feed into creating regional balance. <BR /> <BR />I started with reconciliation and I will end on it: what will reconciliation look like moving forward?”
“Thank you. <BR /> <BR />Yes, absolutely. I totally agree. Recently, the Economy Committee looked at creating a north-west hub on the Magee campus. That is an example of collaboration. We could work with the Letterkenny campus to deliver a university there for young people on both sides of the border and enable them to access the highest level of education. <BR /> <BR />As regards our economy, we need to sell this island as one. Just as we do with tourism, we need to use relationships North and South to allow our businesses to scale, grow and export. Invest NI should work in collaboration with IDA Ireland, not try to compete with it. We are nowhere close to the economic figures of the South, and we are only 78% of the average UK gross value added (GVA).”
“In education, let us look at giving our young people opportunities to study throughout the island, as well as to go across to England, Scotland and Wales. We need to remove the barriers to that. One of my kids went to university in England, and I have one in Dublin. In 1998, 10% of Trinity College students were Northern students, but, today, that figure is less than 1%.”
“Organising healthcare throughout the island would yield massive benefits. Children's cancer services are an example of that. A constituent of mine has a young girl who had to travel to Manchester for treatment. At her lowest and most vulnerable point, she had to go on a commercial flight, with all the potential to pick up bugs and infections, rather than there being a solution on the island that she could have availed herself of.”
“<BR /> <BR />I was asked last week, or the week before last, to give the top three issues in Northern Ireland. My answer was health, education and the economy, and you can flip them around depending on the day, but all three require a shared island approach if we are to deliver solutions for people and to deliver better. Health should be fundamentally based on getting the best possible care: an all-island solution to deliver better, reduce waiting lists and provide better care as quickly as possible, with easy access for treatment.”
“I also wish the Minister well in his new role. <BR /> <BR />I have been at, I think, every Shared Island event and meeting that has happened in the South. Part of it comes from what reconciliation is and what it looks like in 2025. We are 27 years on from the Good Friday Agreement, so what does reconciliation look like in the next five, 10 or 15 years? For Alliance, reconciliation is a core value of our party. We work for a shared future. We sit outside the two ideologies of constitution — unionism and nationalism — but we give an inclusive alternative base for sharing and reconciliation. We do not form policy based on or filtered through the two uniteds — whether you want a United Kingdom or a united Ireland. We simply base our policy on evidence and research and the simple value of delivering better for everyone.”
“I welcome the new Minister and wish her all the best. <BR /> <BR />To follow on from what Philip said, there has been talk of compensation schemes from NIE and the telecommunications companies, but it is vital that the compensation comes out of the profits of the companies, not out of the pockets of the householders affected. Will the Minister give an update on any work that is being done on that to make sure that people do not pay to compensate themselves?”
“I thank the Minister for her detailed answer. I am thinking a little bit ahead. Earlier, the Minister talked about the cost of doing business research that is being carried out by the university. Could that research look at a banded rating system as a potential opportunity to help our small businesses in the long term?”
“Will the Minister give an update on the strategic review of rates? When can businesses expect to see changes to the non-domestic rates coming through?”
“Recently, the Great British Energy Bill was in front of the Economy Committee. We are looking through the outworkings of it. Will the Minister tell us what advantage that Bill will bring us? Will there be an uplift in investment here? What difference will it make to energy security here?”
“That meeting happened in October. Has the Minister met the UK Government since then to discuss the funding that Treasury might make available? If that meeting has happened, will he give us an update on it?”
“No. The next part of the sentence was that they expected that businesses would invest. He has been misquoted twice, and I just want to put that on the record. That was not what he said.”
“The CEO of Invest NI did not say those words. What he said to our Committee was that, up to this point, no businesses had invested on that basis, but he expected —”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I tried to come in on this point earlier when the one-man pantomime was going on.”
“The Minister says that the answer is to use public transport, and I absolutely agree with that. The difficulty is that the evidence that we get from constituents is that they cannot get onto public transport. There is a train service that comes from my area that is already over capacity. Three-carriage trains are used at peak times, which causes delays. Why was the capacity of our public transport system, including our trains, not increased alongside the plans for Grand Central station? When will that be resolved?”
“I completely agree. I was trying to question whether this is all about fare costs. It is not about public transport; it is about the cost of fares. Where is the money coming from? Maybe the SDLP's idea is to align that to get more money. That is all. I totally agree with what you are saying.”
“Can I get a word in? Can I finish? Another two and a half years. I have been good all year. It is all I ask for for Christmas.”
“I have been good all year, and it is Christmas, so I ask, please, that motions from the Opposition include ideas and solutions — constructive stuff — rather than there being two and a half more years —”
“I get it that you are from Newry, and that there is a local issue there — I totally understand that — but the wider piece about integration is not coming through. <BR /> <BR />Around the world, we see ticketing options whereby you jump on one mode of public transport, tapping on and off with a bank card, and that automatically integrates with every other form of public transport. We do not see that here. There may well be discussions about that and plans for that to happen, and the Minister can address that. If we were to address that North and South, it would boost the tourism industry. It would help us here, whenever anybody comes to the North. There are lots of solutions that we could drive forward. <BR /> <BR />I have a got a cold and feel grumpy”
“I have given way three times. <BR /> <BR />Given the disparity in economic growth between the North and the South, surely the price of a ticket on a route only scratches the surface of the economic disparity and the disparity in investment across our island. Surely the debate and action should be focused on our economy and the massive growth in the South, yet we are arguing over the price of a train ticket. <BR /> <BR />We should look at public transport as a whole. We should look at connecting all our services. Whether it is me getting the train to Dublin and jumping on the Luas or somebody from Dublin coming to Belfast and jumping on the Glider or a bus, there has to be a serious wider discussion about the integration of our transport. Ticketing integration needs to happen across the island. None of that is in the motion.”
“I absolutely agree with the point about the unified approach, and I will go further.”
“I get that. I totally understand about the price, and I agree about it. However, if you are asking for that on the one hand, are you saying that, on the other hand, you do not want 60-year-olds with free bus passes here to get free travel on the same route and we should have the age at 66, as in the South? That is what the motion says.”
“No, I said that you are talking about a train line that is really busy at the minute, so I do not get that argument. <BR /> <BR />The motion refers to a unified fare structure: I agree with that, but maybe the SDLP is talking about free transport for pensioners. The age for ours is 60; in the South it is 66. Are you calling for that to be realigned? Is there a saving to be made there that you will use to reduce the ticket price? Is that what we are discussing? I will give way again, if you want to clarify that.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is strange to use a train service between Dublin and Belfast that is booming as the example of a restriction of usage. I agree about the pricing, but the question of who pays for the subsidy to reduce the ticket price is not answered or addressed in the motion. We need greater investment to increase the number of trains and to improve interconnection with and integration between all forms of public transport.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to bring up a couple of other issues, because the motion is so narrow and lacks any ideas to bring change. First, it has to be acknowledged that there has been major investment in our transport network. We have seen that with the new Grand Central station in Belfast, which has allowed the service between Belfast and Dublin to become an hourly one. The other side of that has brought a few problems to our constituencies, whether it is overcrowding on trains that do not have enough carriages or the station's lack of drop-off points or connections to taxis or even to the Glider. There is an issue of reliability and of needing greater investment in our train rolling stock to provide greater capacity on the network so that people can avail themselves of the station.”
“My daughter is studying in Dublin and quickly learned to get a single ticket down at the start of term and purchase return tickets from there in order to avail herself of the price difference. The differences are much wider than just the cost of the Belfast-Dublin train, however. Linking to the Luas is cheaper, with a daily cap to encourage more use of public transport. The bus route between Belfast and Dublin has a similar cost whether you travel from the North or the South. The motion focuses simply on the cost of train tickets, and I get the particular issue of it costing less to travel to Belfast from Dundalk than from Newry. I understand that, and I agree that a rate should be applied across the island so that we pay the same price.”
“The Minister has included a large section of my Lagan Valley constituency in the Belfast area, while his focus remains on subregional balance. However, Lisburn has next to no Invest NI land left to provide job opportunities for my constituents. What are the Minister and his Department doing to address that? Given our strategic location on the Belfast-Dublin economic corridor, surely we are in the ideal location to help attract inward investment.”
“Every year, we pay for reduced air passenger duty. Will the Minister provide an assessment of how imminent long-haul flights from Belfast might be and what DFI is doing to assist in that?”
“Minister, you talked about the success of Go Succeed. Will you give your assessment of its success when you have benchmarked it against similar schemes in GB or the South?”
“Thank you for giving way. I appreciate that developers want to get the final surface on and be done with it, but, in the Ayrshire development in Lisburn, the developer has been allowed to build multiple phases without the sewers even having been agreed for approval, which then causes exactly those problems. Do you agree that there should be a limit on how far developments should be allowed to go and on developers moving to other places without looking after those who have purchased first?”
“I welcome the Minister's statement. Alliance welcomes the specific work of InterTradeIreland on energy innovation and technology towards decarbonisation. If we can solve that crisis, we can open up a different world of opportunities here, as we all acknowledge. The Minister spoke a minute ago about resource. Is the Minister content that sufficient ambition and resource is being given to InterTradeIreland to fully realise the potential?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. This is a debate on RHI, which is really serious, and we have had very serious contributions from the DUP, from the Ulster Unionists, from me, from Sinn Féin and from People Before Profit about this debate, yet the SDLP — the official Opposition — has chosen to attack Alliance consistently on it. You have had three rants on it, so can I ask when and how and if it is possible for the SDLP to actually scrutinise and actually be the Opposition?”
“We should look after those who were caught up in the scheme and implement the Audit Office proposals quickly in order to give people confidence and to grow confidence in the Assembly and in any future renewable scheme that is introduced.”
“<BR /> <BR />All Departments should work together to help decarbonise the region and give us a cleaner environment in which to live, which was the scheme's original purpose. We should look after and protect our environment. The energy sector need to see growth, which has stagnated, and our public need to have energy security. We need to expand quickly if we are to meet our renewables target of 80% by 2030, and we do not have time to waste or for there to be more drama and delay. Rather, we need to move on and learn from the past. <BR /> <BR />Let us therefore keep our focus on the prize that brings about reform and that leaves the past in the past.”
“Actually, on RHI, there is a case that the Department needs to go even further and be absolutely transparent about the issues that we are dealing with and bring full transparency to the Committee and the Assembly so that there is no doubt that all the information is in front of us so that we can make a clear judgement that is based on evidence. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate that there is a bit of political drama when it comes to the three letters "RHI", and that is what you get in this place, but let us not forget — I want to emphasise this — that people are suffering because of that scheme; they went into it legitimately and are now left with the consequences. Our goal should be to learn from this, to see the reform coming through the Assembly and to look after those people as we move towards closure of the scheme.”
“<BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, the debate a couple of weeks ago on RHI highlighted that the Department for the Economy has further to go on this to bring confidence to our Committee, the Assembly and the public as a whole. The PAC report on the lack of progress in the Department of Finance also highlights that. I said in the debate a couple of weeks ago that I want to support the Minister and want to deliver better for people, but there must be transparency from the Departments to build that confidence and to give us confidence.”
“We need to be able to close down RHI while respecting and looking after those who legitimately went into that scheme in good faith. I met some of those owners in the past number of weeks. At the same time as learning from the past, we need to make sure that those people are looked after as we go forward and learn the lessons from the 2020 inquiry. <BR /> <BR />The Audit Office report indicates that 62% of the inquiry recommendations have now been implemented compared with 43%. Diane Forsythe named a couple of those, and I absolutely agree with her that some of them are necessary and fundamental requirements. However, we need to get on with this, implement the remaining recommendations from the report and move forward.”
“If you read Hansard, I think that you will find that that was what was said. <BR /> <BR />Change happens when we work together. The public and our future renewables sector need to be given the confidence that the Departments here are over the detail of what went wrong to allow us to learn lessons and provide assurance for the wider investor that, as we move into new renewable schemes, those schemes are protected. While it is easy to have a dig at the SDLP or at the DUP for creating RHI in the first place, the public need to have the assurance that we, as a collective Assembly, are grown-up enough to work to sort out the issues and move forward while building confidence in the Assembly rather than just having a go.”
“Thank you for the extra minute. <BR /> <BR />We are the party of reform, and we have been talking about it for a long time. The leader of the Opposition stood up a second ago and said that the Opposition have not been working well and that he hopes that they will start now. I think that the rest of us agree with that.”
“It is not just about looking at the past; it is about learning from the past. Equally, it is about looking to the future and providing confidence. We can stand up and rant like the leader of the Opposition has just done, but we are achieving nothing. We are failing to deliver the change that we require and that the public deserve.”