Sorcha Eastwood
Lagan Valley · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his response. I am really encouraged by it. I am sure that he is aware of the fantastic campaign that Alma White and her son, Caleb, have been undertaking over the past number of months to raise awareness of post-19 provision for young adults with SEN.”
“The Climate Change Committee has outlined just how difficult that is going to be. For example, by 2030, for homes that are off the gas grid, all new heating appliance installations should be zero carbon. For homes that are on the gas grid, it is 2033.”
“<BR /> <BR />I fully accept that achieving a transition to renewable energy and reaching net zero will take a huge amount of investment, but we simply cannot afford not to do it.”
“I echo what my colleague David Honeyford said so well and what many Members right across the House have said during the course of the debate: we find ourselves at a moment in time when the goal of net zero is, unfortunately, being undermined by some. However, I am proud to have put my name to this motion, especially now.”
“So many Members have mentioned their constituents who are struggling in homes that are inadequate at the moment. I am thinking of the people who are going in to the likes of B&M and constantly buying wee dehumidifiers and wee things to sit on their windowsill because they have water or condensation running through the inside of their home…”
“For example, we need to understand what reforms to our education sector will take place in light of the 14-19 strategy, the independent review of education and the research into our FE delivery, which, as Ms McLaughlin mentioned, plays a crucial role.”
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“But the main thing is that, if we constantly collapse the place, we will never accomplish anything. That is the bottom line, and that is why we need to move to reform as a matter of priority. <BR /> <BR />When we talk about opportunities for all, it is important that we are inclusive, but we also need to look at where we are. The stark reality in Northern Ireland is that we have the biggest number of disabled people who want to work but are not able to. In fact, I think that we have the highest number of disabled people with a third-level qualification who cannot find work because they are not adequately supported by the system. That needs to change. <BR /> <BR />There is talk about good jobs, and that makes my teeth itch a wee bit. You are getting it all today.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is another thing about the postcode lottery. David and I are very privileged to be in Lagan Valley, which is one of the wealthiest areas in the North. It is probably one of the greatest super-output areas that has the fewest areas of deprivation, but there are pockets of deprivation there, just like everywhere in Northern Ireland. Someone said to me, "I could take a child, and, given their postcode, I could plot out their educational pathway." That pertains to this day. Unless we get a grip on the importance of Education and Economy working together, we will never crack this nut. <BR /> <BR />We have had a wee bit of politics across the Floor, with "You held Economy for this" and "You held it for that". Grand; love it; here for it.”
“For a lot of the people in that cohort, that is genuine, and they absolutely need to be supported. However, we will not be able to take the other people within that who want to work and say, "Right, you have now moved from that register, and you are in a tech job". We will not be able to do that because we have not spent the time getting them to a place where they can be conversant with the technology and be confident in themselves. I went to school on the Falls Road, and I am telling you that there were people I met from schools in that area a few years ago who said that they could not get their kids to get the bus into a different part of the town, because they were anxious and did not feel confident enough to do so. That is really what we are talking about at the bare bones of the issue. We need to speak to that social inequality.”
“Alliance will support the motion and the amendment. You would be hard-pressed to find anybody who would stand up and say that they do not support more job creation. I echo some of what Sinéad McLaughlin, the Member for Foyle, said about the earlier debate on education and poverty when she was moving her amendment. Do you know what? That is the most important thing we can take away from this. We can talk about job creation all we want, and we can talk about skills, but unless we get it right downstream and make sure that the workers are there, we will never get to the place where we can support ourselves and have a thriving economy in the North. <BR /> <BR />I could pluck another figure from the air, as we all seem to be doing today, and say that we have a really high number of people who are economically inactive.”
“I thank the Minister for his response. The substantive point is that the review of the FE delivery model has stopped and started over the years, so what does his Department intend to do to bring it to a conclusion?”
“No, Minister. It is to do with the potential redundancy scheme and potential campus closures before the review of the FE delivery model has been fully completed.”
“Thank you. I am all for debate, but I will tell you what it is: we are not going to sit here today, after this place has been down for a lock of years, and turn round at the first opportunity, after people have made the best impression about Northern Ireland in the US in trying to get jobs, trying to get trade, trying to make sure that we increase the people we have here in work, making sure that we tackle the absolutely awful problems that we have with our health service — I look forward to the day when we make sure that we discuss those things with the exact same vim and energy.”
“Frankly, I do not have the appetite for it, and there are much more important, pressing and urgent things for us to be getting on with.”
“We do not want to spend time arguing about the past, but it is not just all one way. I want us to spend the rest of the mandate delivering for everybody in the North and making decisions in a way that is best for business and best for people, not through a purely ideological lens. <BR /> <BR />We have an opportunity to make the most of what we have at hand. To be honest, my comments will be limited because we need to move on with the task at hand and continue operating together as an Executive. As I said, we have been at this for only a few weeks. The public were delighted to see us back. We have opportunities, and we can get together on the world stage. Let us not do this every single time that we have something coming forward, because the public do not have the appetite for it.”
“I thank the Member for her intervention. You know, I would take it a step further and say, "Let us have MEPs". Let us go the full hog here. Let us not be behind the door in coming forward. We are all up for engaging with the EU. We will take soundings from anybody, any time, anywhere, because we are not coming at this from an ideological perspective. <BR /> <BR />By the way, it is not a one-way street. We never hear about the fact that we have so many skills shortages and gaps in our economy because of people moving away after Brexit. We never hear of the damaging effect of UK immigration policy — from a UK Government who were responsible for driving through this hardest of hard Brexits. It is not a one-way street. Yes, we have a unique position in the North, and I will make sure that we make the most of that.”
“That is a good thing, and the danger of always automatically equating something that emanates from the EU with something that is bad is that it is wrong. Likewise, neither should we take the position that anything that emanates from the UK is automatically bad. The people of this place want us to go in and do the job at hand in a fair, cool, calm and collected way.”
“We could: we all have our arguments ready, and we know what they are. However, to be honest, I would much rather get on with the job of work that is at hand. <BR /> <BR />The legislation offers protections to businesses in Northern Ireland. We already know that, often, the ask and the offer of tourism and our economy are intertwined.”
“Apologies, my voice is a little weak today — a bit like the DUP position on dual market access. A few short weeks ago, we welcomed the return of the institutions. The public were maybe not delighted but certainly relieved that we had people in this place making laws that would help to make their life better. However, here we are, a few short weeks later, discussing again what appear to be internal DUP wranglings. <BR /> <BR />Just last week — Philip is right — we had delegations in the US talking about the benefits of dual market access to the North and celebrating the unique economic position of Northern Ireland. That is exactly what we should be doing in this place at this time. This is a compressed mandate, so we have short enough time as it is. I do not want to spend the next two and a half to three years relitigating Brexit.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will she agree that the nature of stop-start politics and the collapse of our institutions over the past seven-odd years has impacted severely on our ability to legislate effectively for workers' rights?”
“— in protecting workers. We look forward to working with the Economy Minister to do that in the months ahead.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. Obviously, the issue of zero-hours contracts impacts on us all. Indeed, we note that the use of zero-hours contracts is predominant in areas with a lack of gender equality, such as health and social care, hospitality and other areas of employment. We want to make sure that the use and exploitation of zero-hours contracts come to an end. We do not hesitate to tell the Member that we intend to make sure that those exploitative forms of working come to an end. We are delighted to make sure that we have the best forms of employment for workers in the North. <BR /> <BR />We want to make sure that Alliance plays its full part —”
“Therefore, we want to make sure that, when we are going out of our way to strengthen workers' rights, we monitor and do that in a way that reflects our economy.”
“<BR /> <BR />Something that is not referenced in the motion is gender pay gap reporting, which Mr Brett, as Chair of the Economy Committee, referenced. We need to recognise that there are powers already there to at least partly address it. If the First Minister and deputy First Minister were willing to use them, they could bring section 19 of the Employment Act 2016 into force. The Act provides for the making of gender pay gap reporting regulations, which should have been in place by 2017. However, given the delay in implementing these, the gender pay gap reporting regulations should go further and, as in the South, apply to employers with 50 or more employees, not just to those with over 250 employees. I mention that because, as others have referenced, Northern Ireland is predominantly an SME economy.”
“For example, the lack of workplace rights for carers drives many from the workplace and leads to burnout and financial struggles. We support Carers NI and its lobbying for a change in the law, and we note that one in three people with caring roles are leaving work, so we need to act urgently. <BR /> <BR />Public interest disclosure legislation is an area that needs to be updated. Rights and responsibilities in relation to public interest disclosures are contained in the Public Interest Disclosure (Northern Ireland) Order 1998. I encourage the Economy Minister to consider lessons that could be learnt from the Government consultation on the GB whistle-blowing framework and the additional requirements through the EU whistle-blowing directive.”
“For example, I look at the most recent developments in GB and see a new duty on employers to take reasonable steps to prevent the sexual harassment of employees in the course of their employment; new rights to carers' leave and neonatal leave, which others mentioned; an extension of protection for employees in health and safety cases; changes in the calculation of compensation for discrimination awards; collective redundancy consultation changes; a day-1 right to a written statement of terms and conditions for all workers; the introduction of new flexible working rights; the extension of redundancy protections to pregnant women; and a new statutory right to request predictable working patterns from employers. The lack of those workers' rights has serious real-world consequences for workers and their families in Northern Ireland.”
“We support people who are working in the likes of Carers NI, TinyLife, Legal Island, the Equality Commission NI, the Human Rights Commission and others, who are seeking to make sure that workers have the same protections in law as they do elsewhere. <BR /> <BR />I look to the Equality Act 2010 that was made in GB, and I look at some of the different pieces of legislation that we derive in seeking to protect workers in the North. There is definitely a lot more that can be done to tidy up the legislation that we use here to protect workers.”
“I also pay tribute to my colleague Dr Stephen Farry, the former Minister for Employment and Learning, who ensured that Northern Ireland was protected from the worst elements of some of the draconian laws brought in under the Tory Administration. Indeed, I have most recently asked the Minister for the Economy whether he has any intention of introducing, for example, the minimum service level laws. He said that he does not, which I welcome. <BR /> <BR />Mr Declan Kearney, who moved the motion, talked about the precariat; indeed, that speaks to the main body of the motion. We have seen massive changes in our economy over the past 10 years, and that has spoken to the people who are in those forms of unsafe, often casual working that are both exploitative and damaging to our economy. We support laws that seek to protect workers.”
“I support the motion and the amendment and thank the Members who tabled them. I declare that I previously worked in HR and employment law and was a member of the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers (USDAW). <BR /> <BR />Obviously, employment law is devolved in Northern Ireland, but, to be brutally honest, over the past seven-odd years, Northern Ireland has fallen well behind on workers' rights and the protections provided to workers in comparison with both GB and south of the border. It is important that the Minister introduces legislation urgently, as we cannot wait for workers in Northern Ireland to have the same rights as those in the rest of the UK or in the South.”
“<BR /> <BR />This is about highlighting awareness of stem cell donation, but it is also about asking for more, asking for more to be done to ensure that there are better public information campaigns about blood cancer and stem cell donation to support families and those who want to donate. It also leads me to think that, although certain types of blood cancer are rare subtypes, blood cancer itself is most certainly not rare. <BR /> <BR />We need to do much more to support patients, their families and those who care for them. We must see that reflected in our public health campaigns. Today, I call on the Health Minister to make the awareness of blood cancer and stem cell donation a priority.”
“That, however, leaves me with the question about awareness, not only of blood cancer but the issue of highlighting the need for stem cell donation. I think of families like that of Bobby Browne from Camlough, Daniel Greer from Newry and countless others — far too many for me to name. I also think of Sean Smyth, the father of Eimear Smyth, who said to me, "I think back now, and I think of the amount of time we spent out tramping the streets, organising swab drives and stem cell donation events, trying to get donations for Eimear. I think back and I think to myself, 'That was time we should have had with her': it was precious time that we lost with her". He was absolutely right.”
“I want to take a moment today to highlight the issue of stem cell donation. Yet another family has been impacted by blood cancer and is calling on the public for help. Tracy McKenna is a mum of two from Omagh who has acute myeloid leukaemia. Whilst a lot of research has been done into certain types of lymphomas and leukaemias, far too many of them remain hard to treat and have few treatment options. Faced with a relapse, Tracy needs a stem cell transplant to have a second chance at life. <BR /> <BR />Registration drives to join the stem cell donation register are being held on 15 and 16 March in Belfast, at City Hall and Royal Avenue. If you cannot attend, you can sign up to DKMS or Anthony Nolan online. <BR /> <BR />Three people a day are diagnosed with blood cancer in the North, and it remains the UK's third-biggest killer.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I do not mean or intend to interject an awful lot, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, but I just want to say that the Member is absolutely right. There are learnings that we can take from the South. We need to adopt more of an all-island approach when it comes to how we shape our economy and where the potentials are from our dual market access going forward. Does the Member agree with that contention?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I agree with her analysis that we must not adopt a scattergun approach per se just for the sake of numbers and that targets need to reflect where the gaps are. Does she agree that we need to ensure that we meet our goals on the climate crisis and our challenges in the Health and Social Care workforce and that that should be reflected in how we go about this?”
“As they say, what gets measured gets done. We also want to see changing demographics, with more women undertaking apprenticeships, more people from disadvantaged backgrounds moving up through them, and all-age apprenticeships. We therefore support the amendment and commend the motion to the House.”
“In this country, we tend to think that learning stops at 16, 18 or 21. That mindset needs to change. I know that the Minister shares that view of the world and has made strides to frame that conversation. Instead of benefiting from a dedicated skills fund, our larger businesses currently have to pay an apprenticeship levy to the UK Treasury of circa £80 million without seeing any direct benefit. Although it is a reserved matter, we need to continue to make the case that it does not work for our local organisations. <BR /> <BR />We want to see a growing number of apprenticeship frameworks and opportunities, as long as they are well designed, well considered and properly supported. We want the number of people starting and, most importantly, completing apprenticeships to increase. We believe that ambitious targets should be set around both.”
“Absolutely. I thank the Member for his point. I share that concern, not just on the specific campus that but on what he raised in general. We are right to pause in that regard. <BR /> <BR />We need a strategic vision for FE, and we need to provide clear delineation of the role and functions of universities, colleges and schools. The recommendations included in the independent review of education should be considered. Our amendment refers to a dedicated skills fund. That was a recommendation of the OECD skills strategy for Northern Ireland and is a request of many businesses. It will be essential to making real progress on developing apprenticeships and supporting more people to start them. Establishing it would also send a signal that the Department is making lifelong learning and skills a priority.”
“I feel that it was important to put that on record, as I feel, particularly at this time, that our colleges, and the lecturers and students within them, need champions right now. The FE sector was, rightly, at the heart of the skills strategy. The reality, however, comprises ongoing industrial relations issues, lack of pay parity with schoolteachers, a voluntary redundancy scheme costing millions, and the potential of campus closures, all while we have been told that a project is under way to consider the future structure of the FE system. That transformation project needs to be brought forward urgently and discussed openly before the voluntary redundancy scheme goes ahead and before any decisions on campus closures are taken. Otherwise, we are simply jumping the shark.”
“We need to ensure that SMEs, like bigger organisations, are empowered and supported to take on apprentices. That requires supporting them through advice and training, but it also means further developing our managerial capacity. Again and again, we hear about the need for interventions to develop more managerial talent across all sectors. That needs to be carried out as part of a twin-track approach with apprenticeship development, as good managers will ensure that apprentices are motivated and get the most out of the training. <BR /> <BR />Our amendment makes specific reference to the role of further education. That is incredibly important at this time. I echo the sentiments of the Committee Chair.”
“England has had apprenticeships in nursing since September 2017, and, although the Royal College of Nursing (RCN) says that there is a place for them, it has noticed, in the course of their execution, a shortage of training capacity, a lack of funding, and constraints caused by the apprenticeship levy. Healthcare apprenticeships need to be part of a strategic workforce plan, and that requires close cross-departmental working. In my short time here, I have already raised issues around the health workforce challenge with the Health Minister and the Economy Minister on the Floor of the House. We know that that will not be down to one Department; it will be a cross-departmental job of work. <BR /> <BR />There needs to be acceptance that Northern Ireland is made up of SMEs; we are predominantly an SME economy.”
“Absolutely. I agree with the Member: I am thinking of her constituency of Mid Ulster and of the incredible work that Manufacturing and Engineering Growth and Advancement (MEGA) does to bring young people to the workplace. As the Member said, it is crucial that this is led by industry, which has the innate ability to understand where our economy is going and can give our young people the chance to progress through that. <BR /> <BR />Developing the sorts of frameworks and sectoral partnerships that we have talked about does not, alone, equal success.”
“There are not just opportunities to reduce fuel poverty, but opportunities for local businesses and technologies to develop and thrive. Those growing and future sectors need a strong pipeline of emerging talent. Northern Ireland Electricity Networks and other companies have clubbed together to form a utilities apprenticeship, which will be absolutely key for us.”
“It also means having ongoing conversations about the routes that young people can take — I think of excellent organisations, such as Young Enterprise, that do brilliant work on that across Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />The motion speaks of increasing the apprenticeship offer, and I agree with that. For example, the development of a nursing higher level apprenticeship framework is welcome news. As the Committee Chair touched on, there is definitely potential for other frameworks to be developed, particularly in social care. <BR /> <BR />We mentioned the climate challenge and the potential for green growth. Indeed, just last week, the Economy Committee heard about the transformational opportunities of moving towards net zero.”
“The lingering societal bias is changing, but we need to speed up that change. That is, in part, why I am so passionate about reforming careers advice — something that the Chair of the Economy Committee already mentioned — especially in schools. Young people need to be aware of every opportunity and path that is available to them, including apprenticeships, and they need to be empowered and supported to follow the route that they want to follow. That means delivering the long-delayed careers portal, having earlier interventions, making it easier for young people to experience the world of work at first hand and ensuring that that happens more than once throughout their school career.”
“In fact, without those people, our daily life would grind to a halt.”
“Progress needs to be made, and I will touch on a number of areas. The first is the tone with which we discuss apprenticeships and vocational training in society. There remains a perception among many that the academic route is somehow inherently better. I have nothing against universities — I even went to one, later in life — or people who choose the academic route. However, we need to make it clear that university is not inherently better or worse than vocational pathways; there should be absolute parity between the two. That lingering perception does not exist to the same extent in the likes of Switzerland or Germany, because they simply look at the facts. Technical and vocational pathways such as apprenticeships produce highly skilled and sought-after individuals who are desperately needed in our society.”
“<BR /> <BR />A lot more work can be done around apprenticeships, although that has been made significantly harder with us having lost crucial EU funding following our exit from the EU and the difficult financial position of our Departments.”
“When was the last time you tried to get a tradesperson? They are like hen's teeth. They can call their price, and fair play to them. Apprenticeships can also ensure that people emerge from education with hugely valuable skills and without the level of debt that can be experienced through other paths. <BR /> <BR />In 2021-22, we had 7,608 apprenticeship starts from level 2 through to level 7. Across the board, we have seen the trend of people undertaking apprenticeships increasing, but slowly. Our apprenticeship participation rate per 1,000 remains the lowest in the UK, while the latest employer skills survey showed that there were nearly 40,000 vacancies in the North, nearly 14,000 of which were deemed skills-shortage vacancies.”
“I really welcome today's motion. I echo the comments of the Chair of the Economy Committee; somebody whom I have really enjoyed working with in the past few weeks. I know that we are on the same page when it comes to social inclusion in terms of skills and education. Our amendment is a friendly one. It is intended to support the motion, build on it and reiterate the important elements of apprenticeship policy that I will touch on. <BR /> <BR />I strongly believe that apprenticeships are a transformational educational route for people of all ages; indeed, education and skills provide people with a passport for the rest of their life. Apprenticeships can help our society to fill skill gaps and provide accessible routes into excellent careers such as manufacturing, healthcare, technology, business, hospitality and trades.”
“I agree entirely with the Minister. The issue of speeding outside schools in the North needs to be prioritised. I promised my young constituents at Harmony Hill Primary School, Lisburn — Liam, Rory, Maria, Lyla and Hannah — that I would ask the Minister on the Floor of the House whether he would consider installing one of those school safety zones outside their school. I will follow up with the Minister in writing.”
“I ask the Minister for an update on the implementation of the recommendations of the Northern Ireland Audit Office report on public procurement in Northern Ireland, with particular reference to the reforms that were made to the Procurement Board in 2020.”
“The fishing industry deserves wide-ranging support, and I am heartened to hear the various contributions from across the House on that. One of the things that we can be really proud of in Northern Ireland is that food heritage, and the provenance of our seafood is peerless; indeed, we often say about Northern Ireland, "Our Food. Power of Good". I stand here ready, with every Member, especially the Minister, to play my part in helping the fishing industry.”
“The increase of the minimum salary, as Ms Forsythe pointed out, is unworkable in Northern Ireland, as is the shameful proposal not to allow care workers to bring their families here. <BR /> <BR />Although it is a reserved matter, we urgently need to have more say on migration policy in order to ensure that it adequately reflects the needs of our society and economy and to further protect workers who come to work here. I know that the Minister is writing to the Home Office in that regard.”
“A consultation for a five-year proposal on financial support for the fishing industry was carried out in late 2022, and it has wide-ranging proposals, including around training, which would be hugely beneficial were it to be delivered. However, that will require adequate funding. <BR /> <BR />While we speak about the need to support people into the industry, as many Members have mentioned, migration also plays a crucial role for our fishing industry, as it does for health and social care and many other areas of our society. However, the current Conservative Government are pursuing an extreme ideological policy that, clearly, does not have the best interests of Northern Ireland or the wider UK at heart.”
“I urge the Economy Minister to work in collaboration with the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs to give young people the opportunity to have numerous routes into the fishing industry. I agree with Ms Ennis about apprenticeships: she knows that I am very passionate about that. When those apprenticeships come along, they can lead to a job for life for many people, providing stability and a wage. It also provides them with a crucial link to their community where they can be part of their heritage and feel that they are playing a key role. <BR /> <BR />We also need to enable people currently with jobs in the fishing industry to have the opportunity to upskill, diversify and specialise. My colleague, Kellie Armstrong, has already mentioned the cross-seeding of various transferable skills that exist.”
“<BR /> <BR />I commend the Minister for meeting the Northern Ireland Fishery Harbour Authority, and I know that the Department has a range of actions in the pipeline to support the fishing industry. As with other major policy areas, however, there is huge scope for cross-departmental working, as other Members have mentioned. For example, the Department for the Economy has responsibility, with delivery partners including DFI, for the energy strategy. Enabling businesses, including those in processing, to invest in renewables is crucial, and that relies on things such as upgrading the grid and business support schemes. <BR /> <BR />DFE, as Ms Ennis mentioned, has responsibility for skills development.”