Russell Findlay
Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party · Scotland
“Will Kate Campbell give way? Kate Campbell: I will make progress. Although money for, investment in and a focus on those priorities are very welcome, we need to be realistic about what is driving crime and offending—and the evidence exists.”
“Stephen Kerr: Kate Campbell made a point a moment ago about poverty. Does she agree that the last thing that we should be doing in this Parliament is agreeing to budgets that involve cuts to the college sector, putting higher education into financial difficulty or threatening the number of apprenticeships?”
“Scottish Prison Service statistics show that individuals from “the 10% most deprived areas … accounted for 31% of all arrivals to prison in 2022-23”. That is a massive, disproportionate overrepresentation. We know that people who end up in prison are much more likely to have faced disadvantage, trauma and poverty.”
“I begin by congratulating Douglas Lumsden on his election as MP for Aberdeen South, and I welcome our new MSP colleague, James Adams, to Holyrood. Former members of the Scottish National Party’s audit and finance committee are also here today.”
“On average, families of people in custody spend £180 a month on supporting that person. Only yesterday, we found out that one in five families are left with just £12 a week after outgoings— those are the families living with the highest levels of poverty.”
“That includes using peer mentoring projects, such as the turn your life around project, to help young people who may not have the role models that they need in their lives; restorative justice, which empowers victims and survivors while helping offenders to understand the impact of their crimes on other people; or trauma-informed communit…”
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“When we consider investment in social justice, the Scottish child payment, social housing, mental health services, youth work, keeping the Promise and any other measure that reduces inequality and makes our society fairer, we must also consider that to be tackling the root causes of crime, bringing down our prison population and making our communities safer. Those are the outcomes that we all want to achieve—I hope that we can agree on that. 15:32”
“That includes using peer mentoring projects, such as the turn your life around project, to help young people who may not have the role models that they need in their lives; restorative justice, which empowers victims and survivors while helping offenders to understand the impact of their crimes on other people; or trauma-informed community custody units such as the Bella centre and the Lilias centre, where women on low supervision can rebuild their lives. We also need to take a whole-life, whole-society approach.”
“It keeps families together, keeps people rooted in their communities and makes it much less likely that the person will reoffend—because, at the end of their sentence, they are not ejected back into society without a life to return to. I am glad that, this year, the Scottish Government is investing £169 million in community justice. That is how we break the cycle. A huge part has to be about how we prevent young people from getting caught up in the criminal justice system.”
“On average, families of people in custody spend £180 a month on supporting that person. Only yesterday, we found out that one in five families are left with just £12 a week after outgoings— those are the families living with the highest levels of poverty. Those families are disproportionately more likely to be impacted by incarceration and are also more likely to be unable to afford to visit and support incarcerated family members. We have to break that cycle. Prison still very much has a place. We need our communities to be safe. However, when prison is not necessary, and when a community sentence or home detention can be used instead, the benefits are huge.”
“Stephen Kerr: Kate Campbell made a point a moment ago about poverty. Does she agree that the last thing that we should be doing in this Parliament is agreeing to budgets that involve cuts to the college sector, putting higher education into financial difficulty or threatening the number of apprenticeships? We should be growing all those sectors, because they are the golden tickets that take people out of poverty and prevent the social outcomes that she is describing. Does she agree? Kate Campbell: There are many things that we need to do to tackle poverty and inequality. If Stephen Kerr agrees that poverty is an underlying factor, I hope that he will agree that, for example, the Scottish child payment is transformational. If he listens to the rest of my speech, he will hear about that.”
“Scottish Prison Service statistics show that individuals from “the 10% most deprived areas … accounted for 31% of all arrivals to prison in 2022-23”. That is a massive, disproportionate overrepresentation. We know that people who end up in prison are much more likely to have faced disadvantage, trauma and poverty. If we tackle inequality, we are literally tackling one of the main root causes of crime. What is so sad is that, often, the circumstance of one family member being in prison perpetuates disadvantage for other members of that family. Families Outside estimates that, each year in Scotland, more than 27,000 children and young people experience a parent’s imprisonment. Having a family member in prison creates, sustains and entrenches poverty for the families who are left behind.”
“Will Kate Campbell give way? Kate Campbell: I will make progress. Although money for, investment in and a focus on those priorities are very welcome, we need to be realistic about what is driving crime and offending—and the evidence exists. In the 2024 Scottish prison survey, 42 per cent of respondents stated that “a Social Worker was involved in their lives while they were growing up”. Forty-two per cent—that is a massive overrepresentation compared with the general population. In 2018, the Scottish Government published a paper on childhood trauma links to adult criminal behaviour, and the publication noted that 45 per cent of the “Adult prisoner survey respondents reported that they had been physically abused in their home as a child”. Forty-five per cent—again, that is a massive overrepresentation compared with the general population.”
“I begin by congratulating Douglas Lumsden on his election as MP for Aberdeen South, and I welcome our new MSP colleague, James Adams, to Holyrood. Former members of the Scottish National Party’s audit and finance committee are also here today. At the height of Peter Murrell’s crime spree, Allison Graham and Cynthia Guthrie raised concerns. Nicola Sturgeon ordered them to be quiet and John Swinney assured them that there was no problem. The new Minister for Victims and Community Safety tried to bully those whistleblowers into silence. They back an inquiry because their testimony proves beyond any doubt that John Swinney and others enabled Peter Murrell’s crimes. Will he apologise to them for his central role in the SNP scandal?”
“A new report has revealed massive oil and gas reserves off Shetland—an estimated 4.7 billion barrels’ worth of oil—which is great news. However, our imports are at their highest levels since the 1970s and much of the gas that we use is fracked in the United States, generating four times as much carbon dioxide. The new fields could provide cleaner domestic energy for decades and support thousands of jobs. The University of Aberdeen researchers warn that their paper might serve as an obituary for the industry unless we get drilling. Does John Swinney agree that we should get drilling, or will he oversee the death of Scotland’s oil and gas industry?”
“She said: “Margaret truly believed in the SNP and would have been so upset and so angry. We will never know if Peter Murrell stole her money.” Why is John Swinney so scared of doing the right thing?”
“Before I ask my question, I want to say, come on, Scotland—let us at least get into the next round and out of the group stages. I also on behalf of my party whole-heartedly condemn the ugly scenes that we saw in the streets of my home city of Glasgow. John Swinney has blocked a parliamentary inquiry into the Scottish National Party crime scandal. He does not want to know whether Peter Murrell stole taxpayers’ money, the terms of his plea deal or why Nicola Sturgeon was not prosecuted. A lady called Margaret Killah joined the SNP in the 1950s and donated money to the party for years. When she died, aged 84, she left the SNP £20,000. Peter Murrell told Margaret’s solicitor to deal only with him, not the party treasurer. Margaret’s executor told me this morning that she would have backed an inquiry in Parliament.”
“The SNP’s rank of taxpayer-funded advisers will tell it to brazen it out, but public trust in Scottish politics is in freefall. Just weeks ago, one in two Scots did not exercise their right to vote. Today, we have a collective duty to do the right thing and back a proper inquiry, because if MSPs refuse to do so, Scotland’s MPs surely must. I move amendment S7M-00294.3, to insert at end: “; believes that public trust is undermined when legitimate questions go unanswered; notes the conviction of Peter Murrell following Operation Branchform; believes that scrutiny is essential to democratic accountability, and calls for any independent inquiry to establish what lessons must be learned from this scandal and what reforms are required to restore public confidence in Scottish politics.””
“He reckons that that gives him a free pass: telling the truth does not matter, attacking the police and journalists does not matter and silencing whistleblowers and crime victims does not matter. He preaches transparency, candour and respect, yet he practises secrecy, dishonesty and disrespect. He pontificates about misinformation while his party runs a breathtaking campaign of misinformation about renewable energy. They reckon they will get away with it, because they always do. The Green amendment seeks to help the SNP by muddying the waters and diverting attention. Ross Greer is running to the rescue of John Swinney, who he calls his work dad—the same Mr Greer who thanked Peter Murrell for giving him a hefty pay rise, then deleted the tweet.”
“We saw the same tactics during the Alex Salmond scandal. The SNP used every dirty trick to destroy the man who delivered it an independence referendum. It continues to attack him as he lies in his grave. What of the young victims whose party protected the predatory sex offender Jordan Linden? This week, allegations have resurfaced about a businessman handing Peter Murrell £50,000 to secure a safe Westminster seat for a relative. Now the SNP has been found guilty of contempt of court relating to the Alex Salmond case. The sleaze keeps rising, and the stench gets worse, yet John Swinney sticks his head in the sand. His response to all this, as we heard from Jamie Hepburn there, is to hide behind the election result.”
“Peter Murrell stole at least £400,000 to bankroll his and his wife’s luxury lifestyle. In a plea deal, £60,000-worth of goods were wiped from Murrell’s charge sheet—a plea deal crucially timed for just after the Scottish election. Did Peter Murrell discuss that with Nicola Sturgeon when they met at Easter time? Did the police agree with the Crown Office to prosecute just one person? Those are some of the many questions for an inquiry. Here is another: did Peter Murrell steal taxpayers’ money? We still do not know the answer to that. During this extraordinary SNP scandal, journalists also suffered bully-boy tactics. Hannah Rodger, John Ferguson, Georgia Edkins and others were lied to and smeared. They were told that they were wrong when they were right. Their professional reputations were maliciously denigrated.”
““Nothing to see here,” they were warned by Nicola Sturgeon, and “Everything is fine,” they were assured by John Swinney, but everything was not fine—far from it. For at least 12 years, Peter Murrell was stealing from under their noses; more than 1,000 items were bought with stolen money: jewellery, watches, homeware, toiletries, electronics and Montblanc pens that cost hundreds of pounds, just like the pens that Nicola Sturgeon flaunted right here when she was First Minister. Who on earth spends three grand on a salt and pepper set made out of crystal? Then of course there is the 125-grand camper van that Nicola Sturgeon says she did not see. It is 24 feet long, 10 feet high and weighs 3.5 tonnes, but Nicola Sturgeon did not see it, just as she and John Swinney did not see anything remotely suspicious year after year after year.”
“There is secrecy, dishonesty, intimidation, intolerance and power in the hands of one small group—toe the line or else. There are clear parallels with the culture of the SNP. Jamie Hepburn: The member bemoans the fact that the SNP has dominated political life for the past 20 years. Will he reflect on the fact that that is because we have won five Scottish Parliament elections in a row? His party has lost every single Scottish Parliament election that has ever been contested. Russell Findlay: Arrogance, too— unbelievable. SNP members might not like that characterisation and the comparison with organised crime, but they should listen to senior people on their own side who dared to ask questions, such as the former MP Joanna Cherry or former treasurer Douglas Chapman.”
“I begin by praising Police Scotland and the National Crime Agency, which delivered justice in the face of inappropriate political meddling. I remember when the Scottish National Party chief executive attacked Police Scotland. Peter Murrell’s successor described its inquiry as a “wild goose chase” and a “grotesque circus”, even offering a £5 bet that no charges would be brought. Well, charges were brought and Peter Murrell admitted his guilt and is behind bars, awaiting sentencing. However, this debate is not about one high-profile criminal; it is about public trust in Scottish politics, which has been dominated by one party for decades. As a journalist, I investigated organised crime— organisations that are ruthless towards their rivals and even more ruthless with their own people when they step out of line.”
“Peter Murrell stole at least £400,000 from the Scottish National Party. He simply could not have done so without the protection of his wife, Nicola Sturgeon, and his childhood friend John Swinney. During the crime spree, the SNP was in receipt of more than £10 million of taxpayers’ money. [Interruption.] I do not know whether Stephen Flynn is cheering me on or heckling me—he is probably cheering me on, because he is keeping his eye on the prize. Last week, in the chamber, John Swinney told me that no public money had been stolen, but Mr Swinney also spent years denying the disappearance of ring-fenced independence funds—until yesterday, when he suddenly changed his story. Is John Swinney still 100 per cent sure that Peter Murrell did not get his sticky fingers on any public money?”
“The Peter Murrell scandal is not just about the Scottish National Party’s toxic internal culture; it goes to the heart of Government and Scotland’s justice system. John Swinney and Nicola Sturgeon did not stop Peter Murrell; they enabled him. Sturgeon warned SNP members to stop asking difficult questions and John Swinney assured everyone that the SNP’s finances were sound. Their shield of protection gave Murrell a licence to steal. People want to know why Nicola Sturgeon was not in the dock beside her husband. Will John Swinney back our call for the Lord Advocate to publish all the information that relates to the case?”
“I move amendment S7M-00105.2, to leave out from “welcomes” to end and insert: “believes that its seventh session should be focused exclusively on resolving the issues that matter to most people in Scotland, such as dealing with NHS waiting times, reversing Scotland’s falling educational standards, tackling the growing benefits bill and delivering value-for-money for Scotland’s taxpayers; urges the Scottish Government to drop its demands to hold a second independence referendum, and calls for the Scottish Government to drop its position of a presumption against new oil and gas licences, as outlined in its Draft Energy Strategy published in the last session of the Parliament.” 14:40”
“Here is my challenge to John Swinney today. His party still has a presumption against new oil and gas licences, so let us send a message of support to the oil and gas workers and give a call to action. Let us end the SNP’s opposition, get Britain drilling again and drop the damaging independence obsession.”
“However, the Scottish Conservatives will always stand up to and call out this nonsense. In 2014, the people of Scotland said no, and John Swinney has never respected their vote. He should know that the law is clear that the Parliament does not have the power to hold a referendum. Nicola Sturgeon went to court on that. She spent hundreds of thousands of pounds— taxpayers’ money this time—and she lost. In the most recent Scottish election, more voters backed unionist parties than parties supporting separation. However, none of those facts matters to John Swinney and the SNP. I recently spent time in Aberdeen along with our UK party leader, Kemi Badenoch, and we see the damage that is being inflicted on Scotland’s oil and gas sector, with thousands of jobs being lost. Labour does not care, and it remains against new drilling.”
“Nicola Sturgeon also told those with concerns to stay quiet. When questioned by police, she repeatedly said, “No comment”—the tactics of organised crime. Today of all days, John Swinney reckons that the SNP can be trusted to take full control of an independent Scotland and our nation’s finances. This is the same John Swinney who did not have a clue that his childhood friend, whom he appointed SNP chief executive, was plundering their own party. You would need to have a heart of stone not to laugh at the painful lack of self- awareness on the SNP benches. Does John Swinney not see how this sounds to people who despair at what the Parliament has become? The sad truth is that John Swinney is never, ever going to change—we should not hope for any change at all.”
“For his party, that is too much like hard work. Of course, the SNP will never be honest about the financial cost of independence. If the SNP ever got its way, Scotland would face a funding gap of £26 billion. Scots would face extreme tax rises while public services would be cut to the bone. The timing of today’s debate is comical. Today of all days, John Swinney is banging the independence drum when the news agenda is dominated by his party stealing money from its own members and supporters—money that the SNP promised to ring fence for independence. Here we are just 24 hours after Nicola Sturgeon’s husband, Peter Murrell, admitted using more than £400,000 of stolen money to fund their lavish lifestyle. In 2021, John Swinney went on the BBC and publicly dismissed valid concerns about the SNP’s finances.”
“Here we go again. This is the first debate of the new parliamentary session, but it is not about the NHS, in which patients are stuck waiting for years in misery and agony; it is not about education, where pupils are told to accept mediocrity and classroom violence; it is not about Scots being forced to pay more and more tax to bankroll the Scottish National Party’s out-of-control benefits bill; and nor is it about the betrayal of Scotland’s oil and gas workers by two Governments—SNP and Labour. The debate is not about any of those important issues because, of course, John Swinney believes in only one thing: breaking up the United Kingdom. He is holding Scotland back, stuck in the grip of constitutional paralysis. His party is not actually interested in improving people’s lives or fixing the public services that it broke.”
“People in the north-east know that we are the strongest challengers to the SNP—we came within just over 1,000 votes of beating Stephen Flynn. If pro-UK voters unite behind the Scottish Conservatives in Aberdeen South in a few weeks’ time, we can beat the SNP again. We all have a duty to act in the best interests of the people of Scotland. This Parliament has an opportunity to transform Scotland over the next five years. A more dynamic and prosperous Scotland should be our shared goal—we should be a country of opportunity, with more well-paid jobs, and of lower taxes and less red tape, where hard work and aspiration are rewarded. Let us harness our proud spirit of innovation to get Scotland working again. 14:11”
“On the economy, let us start with Scotland’s world-leading oil and gas sector. The SNP opposes new drilling. John Swinney’s party agrees with Labour that oil and gas should remain under the North Sea. Thousands of jobs are being lost. That position is absurd, especially in today’s volatile world. Our country will need oil and gas for decades, not just for energy but for manufacturing, so I ask John Swinney: does it really make sense for Norway to extract oil and gas from the same basin that his party wants to leave untapped? I think that he knows the answer to that. I make the promise today that the Scottish Conservatives will continue to stand up for the oil and gas sector. We would get Britain drilling again.”
“He has said that he will work with Sinn Féin to break up the UK and that victims of IRA terrorism should “move on”—I wonder whether he understands the hurt that those comments have caused. Will he continue to put constitutional paralysis above good governance? When Scots tell him that a referendum is not a priority, as they did in another poll published today, will he listen? Even without a majority, I fear that he will not listen, because independence will remain the only issue that really matters to him and his party. This is what a sensible and responsible First Minister should focus on: growing the economy; backing business and not attacking it; cutting taxes for those who work hard; and doing the right thing by fixing our national health service, schools and other public services.”
“We know what matters most to the people of Scotland: the ever- rising cost of living, Scotland’s stagnant economy, the NHS being in a near-permanent state of crisis and the impact of immigration on strained public services. What they do not want is a distracting and painful return to the arguments of the past. Thankfully, John Swinney did not get the majority that he said was in the bag, and my party played its part in stopping him. The blue wall stayed blue as we won a hat trick of seats across the south of Scotland. However, I was bitterly disappointed to lose so many valuable and respected colleagues in my party and beyond. This is a very different Parliament from the one that came before. When John Swinney is inevitably elected as First Minister today, he will have some big questions to answer.”
“I can beat that. Congratulations on your election, Presiding Officer. I suspect that today’s proceedings will not be quite as exciting as last week’s, because, of course, this is largely a foregone conclusion. However, I have put my name forward because it gives me the opportunity to put forward my vision for a better Scotland and for a Scottish Parliament that works on behalf of the people who put us here. John Swinney spent the entire election saying that he was going to win—and with a majority. He said that winning a majority would be the trigger for another independence referendum. His relentless obsession with breaking up the United Kingdom is not what people want to hear.”
“I, Russell Findlay, do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles, his heirs and successors, according to law. So help me”
“That leaves Oliver Mundell. Modest, decent and unassuming, Oliver is a quietly effective and astute parliamentarian who serves his constituents with dedication. I thank all of them, and all other departing MSPs, for their contribution and service. 16:33”
“Douglas Ross will be missed by everyone at Holyrood, with the possible exception of the Presiding Officer. [Laughter.] Douglas knows how hard this job is, and I have appreciated his support. Liz Smith has been here since 2007 and is widely respected for her wisdom and decency. She got her Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill passed and has been a ferocious advocate for the victims of a rogue surgeon. Then there is Maurice Golden, who is also known as the dog’s best friend. Like Liz, Maurice has managed to get a member’s bill passed. Tess White has been our superlative voice on equalities. She has been at the forefront of defending women’s rights when those have come under threat. Edward Mountain has been a forensically effective committee convener. As a former military man, Edward is a strong supporter of our veterans.”
“I will single out a trio of MSPs—not Messrs Simpson, Balfour and Greene, but three female opponents, who are all Scottish National Party members, although maybe not for long after being praised by the Tory leader. I will start with Kate Forbes, who is a true conservative. [Laughter.] I regret that that is with a small C, not a capital C— at least, for now. Then there is Audrey Nicoll, who, like me, joined the Parliament five years ago. Audrey was good cop to my bad cop on the Criminal Justice Committee. Michelle Thomson was brave enough to stand up to her own party. I worked with Michelle on amendments to the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill—the gender self-identification bill— to protect victims of sex crimes. Of my many wonderful Conservative colleagues, six are standing down.”
“Thank you, Presiding Officers, in the plural. Unlike at First Minister’s question time today, all you will hear from me just now are warm words in a soothing tone. I begin by thanking you, Presiding Officer, and your colleagues Annabelle Ewing and Liam McArthur. Your job is difficult—indeed, thankless—but essential. When temperatures rise, you are here to cool everyone down. I also thank all the staff who work at Holyrood: my team, security, catering, cleaning, information technology, research and everyone else. I will single out Stephen Imrie and his colleagues on the Criminal Justice Committee, on which I served for three years. The clerking teams make this place run smoothly. I thank all MSPs who are standing down. Whatever your party, you stepped up, put your name on the ballot paper and put your head above the parapet.”
“Some say that the Scottish National Party Government is incompetent. Some say that it is dishonest. Some say that it is sleazy. I say that it is all three. John Swinney has been at the heart of this incompetent, dishonest and sleazy SNP Government for almost two decades. He defended his health secretary for pocketing £11,000 of taxpayers’ money for iPad roaming charges. He defended his next health secretary for taking taxpayer-funded limos to the football. He defended his justice secretary for misrepresenting a grooming gangs expert. He defended his transport secretaries over the corrupt CalMac ferry scandal. He defended himself for deleting his Covid-era messages to Nicola Sturgeon. When will John Swinney start defending the interests of Scotland, not the interests of his sleazy SNP pals?”
“Hard-working Scots are being hammered by the Scottish National Party Government. A new report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies has delivered a damning verdict on the SNP’s income tax system. It says that Scots now pay £1.8 billion more because of SNP tax bands. A Scottish worker who earns £50,000 is £1,500 worse off than a worker elsewhere in the United Kingdom. John Swinney will reach for his script and say that lower earners are better off, but he will not say that they are just £40 better off—that is, £40 a year, or 77p per week. The IFS also says that the SNP Government “lacks a coherent strategy for the devolved tax system”. John Swinney has been finance secretary, Deputy First Minister and First Minister, so who does he blame for bleeding Scottish workers dry?”
“Sir Harry Burns was this country’s chief medical officer from 2005 to 2014, and when he writes about the bill, as he has done this morning to urge MSPs to oppose it, we have to listen carefully to what he says. He said: “We may have no medical cures for their physical illness, but we can and should give them a sense of control over their lives, not a pathway to death.” I do not want to give people a pathway to death. If the bill, and the proceedings around it, have done anything, it is to ensure that not just Parliament in this session but Parliament in the next session and the next Government prioritise palliative and hospice care, so that we can ensure that people live their lives to the fullest opportunity for as long as they can, instead of giving them a pathway to death. 20:08”
“Liam McArthur has said before tonight, and others including Rona Mackay, Patrick Harvie and Alex Cole-Hamilton have said in the chamber this evening, that this bill is the most heavily safeguarded bill of its type anywhere in the world. That sounds really good and very comforting, but I see no way of assessing or judging that statement. I would love it to be true, but I am just not sure that we have the data, or the background, to support such a view. Finally, there is another voice that I thought that we might have heard before in this debate, but we have not. As the enormity of this decision weighs heavily upon us all, I have been listening to experts. This morning, we had an intervention from someone whom I have respected for some time.”
“I, too, fear that the bill cannot prevent coercion. We cannot legislate for human nature and human fallibility. Having changed my mind, and having decided to vote against assisted dying tonight, I wonder whether the member agrees that, if any member at this late stage is still in any doubt, the responsible thing for them to do would be to vote no. Douglas Ross: I understand that members will still be in doubt at this late stage, despite all the debate that we have had, because this is such a difficult decision. However, as Humza Yousaf said in what I thought was an excellent speech, if just one person ends their life as a result of coercion, the bill will have failed. We will have failed as legislators, and this Parliament will have failed. We cannot allow that. I will end by making two brief points.”
“With just a few days until the dissolution of Parliament, the next Parliament must take the necessary action to ensure that unacceptable behaviour at Holyrood is no longer tolerated. 09:36”
“Respondents said that they had experienced and/or witnessed 84 instances of bullying, harassment or sexual harassment since 2021. The report explains the complexity of Parliament as a workplace, with 129 small employers in the form of MSPs alongside Parliament staff and various outside contractors. That creates, in the words of the report, “uneven protections and accountability gaps” and a “perceived two-tier culture.” It is clear that things need to change and that change is in the interests of all parties, all MSPs and all colleagues. The report says that Parliament adopted a zero-tolerance approach many years ago but that there is still uncertainty about what that means in practice.”
“Last night, I read the Parliament’s report on the review conducted about dignity in the workplace. While doing so, I thought back to my time working in newspapers. Workplace cultures were very different to what is typical today, as I am sure many of us can testify. The world of work has changed significantly, and for the better. It is now a given that every employee should feel safe at work and that they should not be subject to bullying, harassment or sexual harassment. The review begins by saying that there is “a strong commitment across the Scottish Parliament to maintaining a workplace founded on dignity, courtesy, and respect.” However, as the Presiding Officer and the First Minister have said, there are causes for concern and grounds for improvement.”
“All four colleagues are legislating in a similar area and I question whether there would not be duplication if we were to support all those amendments. We would look quite silly if we did so. However, I leave colleagues to set out their views. I move amendment 240.”
“They are about setting appropriate regulation-making powers for ministers under section 20A(1). Amendment 66 advises negative procedure; amendment 69 would require affirmative procedure. They are all sensible amendments that update the bill. I will touch briefly on the other amendments in the group. Fulton MacGregor’s amendments 250 and 309 talk about one service in each health board area providing assisted dying. That clearly has financial implications and I am not sure whether those have been adequately considered. Equally, Daniel Johnson’s amendments 292 and 311 talk about creating an office of the assisted dying registrar, Miles Briggs in amendment 293 wants to introduce an assisted dying review panel and Liam McArthur in amendments 72 to 74 makes provision for setting up an assisted dying service.”
“Amendment 111 agreed to. Amendments 238 and 239 not moved. Section 20A—Provision of assistance outwith National Health Service The Presiding Officer: Group 14 is on the administration, regulation and oversight of assisted dying services. Amendment 240, in the name of Jackie Baillie, is grouped with amendments 48, 241, 250, 292, 293, 66, 69, 309, 311 and 72 to 74. Jackie Baillie: I will speak to amendments 240, 241, 48, 66 and 69 in my name and then address others. In the case of amendments 240 and 241, the intention is to provide regulations that specify any settings or services in which assistance must not be provided. Amendment 48 simply updates terminology by replacing the reference to “the Care Inspectorate” with “Social Care and Social Work Improvement Scotland”. Amendments 66 and 69 are also technical amendments.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Ind) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Ind) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Abstentions Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 102, Against 7, Abstentions 12.”
“Amendment 110 agreed to. Amendment 111 moved—[Neil Gray]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 111 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Ind) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Ind) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Abstentions Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 103, Against 7, Abstentions 11.”