Pam Gosal
Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party · Scotland
“I am pleased to deliver one of the final members’ business debates of this parliamentary session on a very important subject. Before I start, I would like to say a few words about my time in the Parliament over the past five years. I hope to return in May.”
“For someone who did not come from a political background or even have any friends or family in politics, it has been the absolute honour of my life to serve the country in which I was born and brought up. Here’s to not writing me off just yet. I hope to be back after 7 May. I will now turn to the subject of the debate.”
“Special thanks go out to Sam Rice from Smartphone Free Childhood and Kids for Now, to Nova Eden from One Collective Power, which provided presentations to the round-table meeting, and to the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills, who attended as well.”
“Businesses in my West Scotland region are under immense pressure thanks to increased employer national insurance contributions from the UK Labour Government, the failure of the Scottish National Party Government to fully pass down rates relief, and ever-increasing retail crime.”
“I declare an interest as a former trading standards officer. We are all devastated by the fire that took place on 8 March on Union Street in Glasgow, yet it turns out that the shop where the fire began was not listed on the mandatory register, as is required for a business to sell nicotine products, and was thus selling vapes illegally.”
“Ivan McKee: As I indicated, it is the responsibility of local authorities to take forward enforcement measures, and it is also their responsibility to provide the resources to do that.”
The complete record
Every one of 318 lines we hold for Pam Gosal, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 3 of 7.
“I have brought up the issue of grooming gangs several times in the chamber, but, instead of taking real action, the SNP Government has chosen to bury its head in the sand, all in the name of political correctness. Let me give it a news flash. Grooming gangs are a real problem, and not just in England and Wales—they are present in every part of Scotland. Why is the minister afraid of calling for an inquiry? Natalie Don-Innes: I think that the way in which people are trying to politicise this issue is awful. The matter that we are discussing is extremely serious.”
“Unfortunately, the bill is not up to the standards of the Parliament. We cannot be complacent here, especially when some might try to hijack the bill to bring in dangerous ideologies that open the back door to a political agenda that erodes parental rights. I would like to make it very clear that, for the reasons that I have stated in my speech, I will not support the bill. 15:29”
“Angela O’Hagan from the Scottish Human Rights Commission said that we are “looking at yet another add-on, with another legislative instrument added as a sticking plaster to patch up legislation whose proposals have not been well defined in the first instance.” At the same time, Fraser Sutherland from the Humanist Society Scotland said: “the bill documentation and pre-bill consultation clearly show that the Government does not fully understand what is happening.”—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 30 September 2025; c 48, 30.] If the Government’s legislation is flawed and only a short-term fix, what was the point of introducing it in the first place? We are tasked with creating good legislation, and the committee has a duty to scrutinise it.”
“In the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, we heard from several witnesses who said that they were worried that the bill is a temporary and short-term solution that does not address underlying issues.”
“The last thing that they need is the administrative burden of determining whether children can override their parents when it comes to religious education and observance. The bill also risks isolating children. Allowing teachers to make a choice on this issue would lead to a lot of inconsistency, and the emotional impact on children should be recognised. In its written submission, the Catholic Headteachers Association of Primary Schools said: “there is a very real risk that the proposed changes to the Bill could result in primary-aged children being isolated from their school community.” The children’s rights legislative landscape in Scotland is already complicated and the approach in the bill adds even more complexity.”
“The bill also risks repeating the Scottish National Party’s so-called named person scheme fiasco, which John Swinney, the then Cabinet Secretary for Education, had to walk back shamefully. There are also extreme worries when it comes to determining whether a child is mature enough to override their parents. Who is to tell whether one child is capable of forming a view but another is not? That puts teachers in a very difficult place, because it potentially creates conflicts between pupils, teachers and parents. Teachers in our schools already face excessive burdens, including but not limited to excessive workload, challenging pupil behaviour and ever-increasing numbers of violent incidents.”
“We might be talking about religious education and observance now, but what comes tomorrow? For example, will a child be able to override their parents when it comes to education on controversial issues such as LGBT or gender ideology? Many primary schools, including in my area of East Dunbartonshire, already work with controversial organisations such as LGBT Youth Scotland, which is not an organisation that is geared towards children of primary school age. I have been contacted by many concerned parents who have asked me for help because they believe that such organisations should not have any involvement with their children. Therefore, a bill that would let children override their parents risks opening a new can of worms by bringing in by the back door dangerous ideologies that serve a political agenda and go against parents’ rights.”
“I recognise that children have rights, but we also need to understand where the parents fit in. They are their legal guardians and carers. We need to listen to parents because, as I will set out later, the fear is that precedents will be set. I hope that the member understands that, although I understand that children and parents both have rights, there has to be a balance. Let me explain some things about the bill. First, it risks stripping parents of their rights. Although it is important that children’s voices are heard, we must remember that parents are their primary guardians. Children under the age of 18 are not old enough to purchase and consume alcohol, be liable for council tax, get a credit card and more. But hold on—they are old enough to override their parents. Another issue of concern is the precedent that the bill sets.”
“Although I recognise the cabinet secretary’s good intentions in introducing the bill, I would like to lay out my concerns. The issues that I am concerned about include the conflict that the bill creates between the rights of parents and the views of children; the impact on families and teachers; and the reality that children develop at different stages. Let me explain some things about the bill. Alex Cole-Hamilton: Will the member give way? Pam Gosal: I have just started, but on you go. Alex Cole-Hamilton: I am interested in Pam Gosal’s choice of language about the conflict that she sees as existing between the rights of parents and the views of children. Does she recognise that children have rights as well? The Deputy Presiding Officer: I will give you the time back, Ms Gosal. Pam Gosal: Absolutely.”
“I thank the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee for producing its stage 1 report on the Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill, as well as all the witnesses who provided evidence to the committee. I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives in this very important debate and as a member of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. The bill will require schools to inform a child if their parents ask them to be withdrawn from religious education and/or observance. The bill will also give the child the chance to express their views and, in cases where the child’s views are different from those of their parents, the school will have to follow the child’s wishes.”
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“I conclude by saying that that relationship, that expertise and that presence in our communities is absolutely central to the Government’s aims of eradicating child poverty and providing warm, safe and affordable homes as a foundational part of that. Meeting closed at 18:24. This is the final edition of the Official Report for this meeting. It is part of the Scottish Parliament Official Report archive and has been sent for legal deposit.”
“The third point—I will conclude on this—is the one that people with lived experience of homelessness raise most often with me, which is the importance of relationships that can help them to go from the period of crisis that they are in to a period in which they can move on with their lives. I think that that speaks, perhaps most of all, to the value of an organisation such as CHAP. As well as its exceptional expertise, it ultimately provides a human face, a kindness and a presence on the ground in our communities, standing shoulder to shoulder with people who need support, building relationships with them and, in doing so, building a bridge to the support that they need.”
“Increasingly, we are seeking to move away from that arrangement and, through measures such as the fairer funding pilot work, we are trying to institute multiyear funding more often, because we understand the benefits that it offers in terms of planning and delivery. I am conscious that I am over time, but I was just reflecting on the fact that people who have lived experience of homelessness raise three key points with me, the first of which is multiple issues going wrong. The second point is another that Mr Gibson reflected on, which is the energy that it takes to bring oneself out of a period of difficulty.”
“Would it not be much more cost effective for the Scottish Government to ensure that, instead of organisations having to spend so much time chasing small amounts of money, there is solid core funding that enables them to consolidate the work that they do, thereby ultimately saving the Government money and people a lot of the pain that they have to go through if they do not have organisations such as CHAP to rely on? Màiri McAllan: Absolutely. I know that Mr Gibson has a keen understanding of those issues, owing to his time and position on the Finance and Public Administration Committee. He will understand that the Government itself has been bound by annualised budgets, which has had a knock-on effect on the third sector and others that we fund.”
“We are determined to work together to make sure that, for example, what the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice is doing in her portfolio and what I am doing in housing can be facilitated by what the transport team is working on. Kenneth Gibson: The core issue for organisations such as CHAP is the insecurity of funding. Much of their resources has to go into chasing project funding—£10,000 here, £20,000 there—and it is extremely difficult for them to maintain a strong service, particularly when they have to be involved in all sorts of multifactorial issues that face individuals.”
“Pam Gosal: As the cabinet secretary said, many components are important to people’s lives, including jobs, housing and good connectivity. It would be good to hear a little about connectivity, because CHAP brought up that issue. It is great that there is multiyear funding coming into the area, but I would like to hear a bit more about connectivity, which is important to the many small towns that we have in Ayrshire in enabling people to access not only jobs but the services that are provided by CHAP. Màiri McAllan: I quite understand the demographic that Pam Gosal highlights, because it is reminiscent of my constituency, where there is no single major centre of population and there are lots of towns and villages. I am very seized of the issue that she mentions, and I know that the transport team in Government is, too.”
“Supported by key local third sector organisations, it is tailored to local areas and co-designed with the community and is now working in 16 areas across Scotland, including North, East and South Ayrshire. It is important that we turn that best practice and groundbreaking work into business as usual. I also want to mention the importance of that work to my housing portfolio. I spend a lot of time working with people who have lived experience of homelessness, and they often reflect three key points. First, as Kenneth Gibson alluded to, they tell me that, although most people can withstand one issue going wrong in their lives and many will be able to deal with two, most people who end up with two, three or four cumulative problems in their lives will find themselves unable to cope. That often leads to homelessness.”
“We will continue to advocate for the UK Government to change that policy, and I make that call again today. I want to put on record how important a role support services play in contributing to the Government’s central aim of eradicating child poverty in Scotland and, ultimately, freeing children from the harm, pain and limitations of poverty. Members will know that we are due to publish by the end of March next year our third child poverty delivery plan, which will set out the actions that we intend to take in pursuit of our targets. I can be clear today that the third sector will be an important part of that. We are also working with local authorities to deliver the fairer futures partnership programme.”
“In that regard, Kenny Gibson recognised the funding that the Scottish Government has offered to CHAP this year to help to sustain its debt service while it explores sustainable funding solutions. That is vital support for the local community, given that there is an absence of other advice services in the area. Christine Grahame: The cabinet secretary will be aware that many in the voluntary sector are suffering from the national insurance increase for employers, which is impacting on many charities. Should the United Kingdom Treasury look again at the impact that that has had on the charitable sector? Màiri McAllan: Yes, I whole-heartedly agree with that. Every third sector organisation or charity that I meet, virtually without exception, will mention to me the strain that the national insurance contribution change has placed on them.”
“Of course, volunteering benefits the volunteer as well, building skills, enhancing employability and supporting physical and mental wellbeing. Our rich and vibrant third sector continues to make Scotland a better place. Although we invest heavily to support those organisations, I recognise the real pressures that they face, given the financial context. In light of that, we are committed to doing all that we can to improve their sustainability. In that respect, we are delivering on our commitment to develop a fairer funding approach by providing more multiyear funding to third sector organisations that are delivering front-line services, providing the opportunity for the long- term planning and development that we know is so important.”
“Their determination and commitment will undoubtedly have changed thousands of lives across Ayrshire. The Scottish Government recognises the skills, kindness and commitment of volunteers, and I put on the record, on behalf of the Scottish ministers, our thanks to them all. Volunteers are the backbone of our third sector. They are the invisible threads that bind communities together. Hundreds of volunteers step forward and give their time freely. They make an extraordinary contribution to other people’s lives and support the wellbeing of our communities the length and breadth of the country. They are people who make vital contributions without fanfare and without reward, simply because they believe in a better society.”
“I also thank him for providing the opportunity for me, on behalf of the Government, to reflect on the truly life-changing work that is delivered by the third sector across our country, including, of course, by CHAP, which complements and contributes to the Scottish Government’s priorities. I have listened carefully to contributions during the debate, and I am heartened that members across the chamber so value the work of community-based organisations such as CHAP, which we all know are often a lifeline for struggling households. I have also heard their concerns about the fragility of the third sector, and I want to cover that in my remarks. First, however, I am delighted to acknowledge the inspirational volunteers who founded CHAP and those who have carried its mission forward over 25 years.”
“Connectivity and access to good public transport are important, both socially and economically, for towns such as Ardrossan, especially as the rate of unemployment in North Ayrshire is above the Scottish average. Good transport links help people to join the job market and make their everyday lives easier. I hope the cabinet secretary, in her closing remarks, will join me and other members in congratulating CHAP on its great work and its 25th anniversary and will outline how the Scottish Government will address some of the challenges that I have mentioned. 18:14 The Cabinet Secretary for Housing (Màiri McAllan): I thank Mr Gibson for his motion and for his on-going support and advocacy for the Community Housing and Advocacy Project, which is clearly a valued support for many in his constituency.”
“That is of particular interest to me as, a couple of years ago, I put forward a policy that would involve teaching children such basic life skills. However, in order for CHAP and other organisations to be able to conduct those important lessons, they need to be properly funded. Right now, CHAP is the only independent organisation in Ayrshire that is delivering such work in schools and the community. Inadequate funding, which leads to instability, could prevent that work and other important projects from happening. Another greatly challenging issue that CHAP highlighted to me was the lack of connectivity and public transport in Ardrossan and the surrounding areas. I heard at first hand from one of the employees that she relies solely on car travel from Dalry to Ardrossan—a privilege that not everybody has.”
“That includes lessons on how households work and managing finances at home, including gas and electricity bills, mortgage payments, car payments and budgeting. We all know how important it is to equip our youngsters in school with the right skills. Those skills will not only benefit them in the long term but assist them to help their parents. Those preventative measures will help not just individual households but, in the long term, the Government, as people will be less reliant on public services, which will—we would hope—result in less pressure on the public purse. After all, according to the Sutton Trust, “96% of teachers think life skills are as or more important than formal academic qualifications in determining how well young people do in adulthood”.”
“I, too, thank my colleague Kenneth Gibson for bringing this important members’ business debate to Parliament. I congratulate the Community Housing Advocacy Project, commonly known as CHAP, on its 25th anniversary and thank it for the great work that it does. CHAP offers free housing advocacy, professional advice, support on welfare rights, debt management and education services on homelessness awareness. On Friday, I was fortunate enough to visit CHAP in Ardrossan and meet the team members Laura, Liz, Andrea, Christine and Joyce. During that visit, I got to hear at first hand about all the excellent work that CHAP does for the community and in local schools. I was very pleased to hear that one of the areas that CHAP is working on is providing vital life skills to secondary school children.”
“It has received the support of survivors and third sector organisations and I hope that the Scottish Government and members from all parties will also back it. It is incumbent on the Scottish Government not only to provide survivors with support but to ensure that domestic abuse does not happen in the first place. 15:15”
“It is shocking that legal aid is not given to those who really need it most. It is little wonder that many survivors do not want to come forward when they do not trust the current system. Survivors of domestic abuse deserve better and should not pay the price for the Government’s delays and failure to support them. In closing, I think that it is becoming increasingly clear that those fleeing abusive relationships do not have the support that they deserve. Helping the survivors of domestic abuse to get back on their feet is one thing, but we must also ensure that domestic abuse is eradicated. That is why my Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill, which is currently at the committee stage, is so important.”
“The depletion of legal aid lawyers is so severe that it was even highlighted in the United Nations “Concluding observations on the eighth periodic report of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”. The Scottish Government clearly needs to do better. The current legal aid system in Scotland does not account for situations in which survivors of domestic abuse do not have access to their own household funds. Financial and domestic abuse often go hand in hand with abusive partners having complete control of financial resources. Therefore, even though a survivor’s household income might be way higher than the legal aid threshold, she will have no access to those funds. In the committee, we heard of situations in which survivors had no idea what their household income was, as their abusive partner hid that information.”
“We often hear the term “legal aid deserts”, meaning geographical areas and areas of law in which there is a significant shortage of available practitioners. That is especially true in rural areas, where solicitors who are willing to take up legal aid cases are scarce. The Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee heard examples of survivors of domestic abuse having to contact 30 to 60 solicitors. In one shocking case, 116 solicitors were asked to take up the case. We heard examples of individuals having to travel 150 miles to access a solicitor. Those are horrific real-life experiences, and let us not forget that behind every call is a real person desperately needing help to escape domestic abuse.”
“Before I begin, I thank the Social Justice and Social Security Committee for securing the debate, all the clerks who put together the report, and all the organisations and individuals who provided evidence to the committee. Evidence taken by the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, as well as by the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, of which I am a member, has made one thing clear: the current legal aid model for those who leave abusive relationships is simply not working and is in dire need of reform. The state of legal aid in Scotland has been poor for a while. I clearly remember Marsha Scott from Scottish Women’s Aid telling the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee that she was raising the same issue that she had raised in 2017—nothing had changed.”
“At the end of the day, all I want to do is maximise our resources, our will and our opportunities to detect, deter and disrupt such heinous behaviour. This week, we have seen success in our criminal justice system that has brought people to justice. Decision Time 21:49”
“At the beginning of 2025, I stood in this chamber and called on the Scottish Government to take action against grooming gangs. It is almost 2026, but we have yet to see any progress from the Government. SNP ministers refuse to even say the words “grooming gangs”. [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Let us hear Ms Gosal. Pam Gosal: I would like a yes or no answer— does the cabinet secretary agree that Scotland faces a grooming gangs problem? Angela Constance: I wonder whether Ms Gosal will answer yes or no to whether she has listened to any of the answers that I have given to other members of the Parliament at this hour. I have always accepted that there are people in this country who seek to harm children and vulnerable adults.”
“The First Minister: Pam Gosal raised an issue that was covered in my statement, which is the impact of gender-based violence against women and girls. Whether such violence takes place in Malawi, Zambia or Scotland, it is completely and utterly reprehensible and unacceptable. I represent a Government that takes that view, which underpins the approach that it takes to public policy in”
“The First Minister likes to preach about gender equality and the rights of women and girls when he is abroad. However, women and girls here in Scotland will not forget how they were treated by the First Minister’s Government. The SNP Scottish Government has chosen to embrace gender self- identification that threatens single-sex spaces— [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Let us hear the member. Pam Gosal: —while ignoring the ruling of the Supreme Court on the definition of the word “woman”. When will the First Minister finally listen to the voices of women and girls from his own country, who demand that he protects women’s rights in Scotland? The Presiding Officer: Answer with reference to any comment in the statement, First Minister.”
“I am speaking on behalf of my community. I have knocked on thousands of doors in West Scotland. It might be a newsflash for the SNP that one of the top priorities that people ask about is what we are going to do about illegal immigration. Poll after poll has shown us that, but SNP ministers have chosen to bury their heads in the sand. They are not living in reality, and they are ignoring the public’s concerns. The Deputy Presiding Officer: You need to conclude. Pam Gosal: We cannot ignore or turn a blind eye to illegal immigration. The duty falls on us all. The SNP must wake up, see what is happening and take the necessary steps. The Deputy Presiding Officer: We have no time in hand, so members will need to stick to their speaking time allocations. 15:23”
“Taxpayers are spending £250 million a year to house asylum seekers in Scotland, which amounts to around £41,000 per person. Hard- working Scots want to know where that money is going, given that Scotland is facing a housing emergency. It is shameful that the SNP’s decision to suspend local connection rules to homelessness provision has contributed to attracting asylum seekers at an unprecedented level. It is not only about costs. We all know that migrants bring different cultural backgrounds. Some embrace British values with ease, but let us not be naive—some cling on to their so-called values, which too often include appalling attitudes towards women. As a lifelong advocate for women and girls, I will never accept that. Every time I stand in the chamber, I will raise my voice to defend the rights and safety of women and girls.”
“I point out to the SNP that there is a world of difference between legal and illegal immigration. No matter what the SNP might think, illegal immigration is wrong. Our country is not a hotel. That is not a fringe belief—I am speaking on behalf of my community. I would like to provide members with some facts. Almost 89,000 asylum applications for more than 111,000 people have been made in the past year, and 50 per cent of those arrived by irregular routes such as small boat crossings, in lorries and even in shipping containers. Glasgow City Council alone houses more asylum seekers than any other local authority in the UK. What surprises me is that the majority of those arriving on our shores are adult males. That does not come without a cost to the public purse.”
“I put it on record that I am pleased that the Scottish Conservatives managed to secure a debate on the important issue of illegal immigration. Immigration has brought many benefits to Scotland. Many of our doctors, nurses, teachers, police officers and firefighters are immigrants or come from immigrant backgrounds. The fabric of our society has been made with the help of diverse communities. I am the proud daughter of immigrants. My parents moved to the United Kingdom from India with hopes of securing a better future. They embraced British values and loved the new country that was now their home. They worked hard and asked for nothing in return. My late father taught me the importance of developing a strong work ethic and paying into the system.”
“However, the Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2025, which was passed in May and which the member and the Conservatives did not support, will remove restrictions preventing charities, law centres and citizens advice bodies from directly employing solicitors to provide certain types of legal aid to some of the country’s most vulnerable citizens. In addition, the legislation will ensure that third sector organisations can directly employ legal professionals to undertake reserved legal services, such as those in cases involving domestic abuse.”
“Evidence heard by the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee has painted a shocking picture of the inability of survivors of domestic abuse to access legal aid. We have heard of survivors being denied legal aid because they were unable to provide figures for their household income, but how would someone know their household income when their abusive partner has complete control over their finances? What action is being taken to ensure that survivors have access to legal aid when they have no access to their own finances? Siobhian Brown: As the member is probably aware, domestic abuse organisations are not allowed by law or regulation to hire lawyers to support women and children.”
“Amendment agreed to. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S6M-19124.1, in the name of Sharon Dowey, which seeks to amend motion S6M-19124, in the name of Katy Clark, on protecting Scotland’s fire service, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.”
“For Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) [Proxy vote cast by Willie Rennie] Abstentions Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S6M-19124.2, in the name of Siobhian Brown, is: For 55, Against 52, Abstentions 3.”
“Motion, as amended, agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that mobile phones should be banned for learners in school classrooms, and acknowledges that the Scottish Government's Guidance on Mobile Phones in Scotland's Schools makes clear that headteachers are empowered to implement full bans, should their professional judgment see fit to do so. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S6M-19124.2, in the name of Siobhian Brown, which seeks to amend motion S6M-19124, in the name of Katy Clark, on protecting Scotland’s fire service, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I do not think that my vote went through. I would have voted yes. The Presiding Officer: I can confirm that your vote was recorded, Ms Gosal. For Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) [Proxy vote cast by Willie Rennie] The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S6M-19123, in the name of Pam Duncan-Glancy, on mobile phones in schools, as amended, is: For 85, Against 26, Abstentions 0.”
“To ask the Scottish Government who it consulted before producing the “Supporting Transgender Pupils in Schools: Guidance for education authorities and schools”, which it published yesterday.”
“Yet the failure to implement what has been set out so clearly by the Supreme Court and by the Equality and Human Rights Commission will lead to more legal challenges. Just last weekend, it was confirmed that there will be another legal challenge from For Women Scotland over flawed trans guidance for schools and prisons. It is becoming clear that our voices as women do not matter for the law or the SNP Scottish Government. Women and girls deserve answers, so I have a very simple question for the Minister for Equalities: will the Supreme Court judgment be implemented immediately by the Scottish Government? I am happy to give way to the minister.”
“I ask members to imagine what would have happened if the shoe had been on the other foot, and the Supreme Court had ruled in favour of the Scottish Government: we would not have heard the end of it. However, because the SNP did not get its way, it is dragging its heels. A recent report from the Ethical Standards Commissioner, “State of the Nation: Diversity in Public Appointments in Scotland”, highlighted “a tendency of policy-makers to seek to apply their own policies rather than following national law”, resulting “in ... legal cases”. In fact, the Government has spent hundreds and thousands of pounds on legal costs, with taxpayers footing the bill. It has already lost two major court battles, and I am hopeful that justice will prevail in Sandie Peggie’s fight against the national health service, too.”
“However, actions speak louder than words. The SNP Government has wasted more than £20 million in taxpayers’ money to fund gender extremist organisations that are desperate to strip women and girls of their rights. That includes more than £3.6 million to the Equality Network and Scottish Trans; more than £2 million to LGBT Youth Scotland; and more than £0.25 million to Stonewall Scotland. On the subject of wasting taxpayers’ money, we should not forget taxpayer-funded institutions such as the National Library of Scotland, which initially caved in to the woke mob by refusing to include gender-critical books such as “The Women Who Wouldn’t Wheesht” as part of its exhibition. That decision was reversed, after the Scottish Conservatives called it out.”