Jackie Baillie
Scottish Labour · Scotland
“Is it not the case that the SNP was economical with the truth in its manifesto when it promised all those things, knowing that there was no budget to deliver any of them? Angela Constance: This Government will deliver a new hospital for the Monklands. This is not about ditching; it is about delivering.”
“I congratulate Marie McNair on bringing the motion to the chamber for debate and on her consistent championing of the cause. Asbestos was finally completely banned in 1999, the same year that the Parliament was established.”
“Today, Cape is owned by the construction engineering company Altrad, which operates around the world, and its UK arm alone made a pre-tax profit of £37.3 million in the year to August 2025.”
“Although shipbuilders and tradesmen might be the most affected, their wives and children might also have been exposed to asbestos dust, and, of course, all families are impacted by a loved one’s diagnosis.”
“I thank the cabinet secretary for the advance copy of her statement. First, there is no doubt in my mind that the people of Lanarkshire and the hard-working NHS staff at Monklands hospital will be bitterly disappointed by the cabinet secretary’s announcement. It does not sound like a reset; it sounds like an indefinite halt.”
“In 2024, the Scottish Law Commission recommended, helpfully, that the time bar be removed, but that was not legislated for in the previous parliamentary session. I hope that the Scottish Government will make such legislation an urgent priority in this parliamentary session.”
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“Tony Worthington, the former MP for Clydebank and Milngavie who passed away this year, campaigned tirelessly to bring this issue to the attention of decision makers at Westminster. He also fought for compensation on behalf of countless individual constituents. This year, we also lost David Colraine, who founded the Clydebank Asbestos Group with others in 1992. As a tribute to him noted, David was a man who did not just feel sad or angry about the injustice that he saw; he actually did something about it. We can all be inspired by David and support the work of the group that he helped to found. 17:42”
“In 2024, the Scottish Law Commission recommended, helpfully, that the time bar be removed, but that was not legislated for in the previous parliamentary session. I hope that the Scottish Government will make such legislation an urgent priority in this parliamentary session. There is also the fact that many public buildings might still contain asbestos, which becomes dangerous when it is disturbed. I understand that Scottish Borders Council faces a £2.5 million bill to remove asbestos from its schools. In that context, I wonder whether national support from the Scottish Government could be available to assist councils that are in that position. I echo Marie McNair’s comments and pay my respects to two people.”
“Today, Cape is owned by the construction engineering company Altrad, which operates around the world, and its UK arm alone made a pre-tax profit of £37.3 million in the year to August 2025. Campaigners are calling for Altrad, on behalf of Cape, to donate a mere £10 million for much-needed research on mesothelioma, but, so far, their calls have gone unanswered. The time bar, which Marie McNair was right to mention, means that someone who is diagnosed with an asbestos-related condition has only three years to claim compensation. In practice, that means that somebody who was diagnosed with asymptomatic conditions such as pleural plaques and developed mesothelioma, say, five years later would not be able to claim, even though both conditions were caused by asbestos.”
“Although shipbuilders and tradesmen might be the most affected, their wives and children might also have been exposed to asbestos dust, and, of course, all families are impacted by a loved one’s diagnosis. The members of Clydebank Asbestos Group, some of whom are listening in the chamber, have done incredible work campaigning for the rights of those patients and their families to get compensation. Righting past wrongs is another reason why asbestos-related conditions are very much an issue today. Cape Intermediate Holdings Ltd was one of the largest asbestos companies in the world but, when the dangers of asbestos first became apparent, it downplayed the risks and withheld its own data, putting profits before lives.”
“I congratulate Marie McNair on bringing the motion to the chamber for debate and on her consistent championing of the cause. Asbestos was finally completely banned in 1999, the same year that the Parliament was established. Although it might therefore be tempting to associate it with industries of the past and 20th century buildings, it remains a feature of life. Strikingly, the nature of mesothelioma is such that, because it makes itself known decades after the first interaction with asbestos, we might not even have reached the peak of case numbers. Scotland’s history as a shipbuilding nation means that Scots have suffered disproportionately from asbestos-related illnesses such as mesothelioma. There are around 200 diagnoses in Scotland every year and the figure is not going down.”
“I saw no commitment in the Labour Party’s manifesto to the good people of Lanarkshire in relation to a replacement for the Monklands hospital. I can say, hand on heart, that if I had not intervened at this stage on a project that would have required in excess of £2 billion, Ms Baillie would have been asking me far harder questions than she is asking today.”
“Is it not the case that the SNP was economical with the truth in its manifesto when it promised all those things, knowing that there was no budget to deliver any of them? Angela Constance: This Government will deliver a new hospital for the Monklands. This is not about ditching; it is about delivering. I made a decision that I believe, as I have reported to the Parliament, is in the best interests of the people of Lanarkshire and provides a credible plan to deliver the new hospital that they require. The plan will deliver more than a new acute hospital. It will deliver the transformation of care that we all know is required. Ms Baillie has listened—I assume—to the information about the timetable that I gave in my statement. I assure her that I will keep her duly informed about it. I read every party’s manifesto very carefully.”
“I thank the cabinet secretary for the advance copy of her statement. First, there is no doubt in my mind that the people of Lanarkshire and the hard-working NHS staff at Monklands hospital will be bitterly disappointed by the cabinet secretary’s announcement. It does not sound like a reset; it sounds like an indefinite halt. Can she tell us when a new Monklands hospital will actually be built? Secondly, in the cabinet secretary’s answer to a parliamentary question on replacement general practices, she said that there will be no spades in the ground until 2031. Can she advise whether that timeline is correct? Finally, it has taken a mere seven weeks for the Scottish National Party to ditch its manifesto commitment.”
“Amendment disagreed to. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S7M-00434.5, in the name of Finlay Carson, which seeks to amend motion S7M- 00434, in the name of Gillian Martin, on meeting the challenge of climate change, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My device failed to connect. I would have voted no. The Presiding Officer: Your vote is recorded. For Bruce, Holly (Glasgow Southside) (Green) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Duane, Iris (Glasgow) (Green) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Kinross-O’Neill, Kayleigh (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Leask, Kristopher (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Green) Manivannan, Q (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) McKee, Cara (West Scotland) (Green) Moodie, Laura (South Scotland) (Green) Nevens, Kate (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Bannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North) (SNP) Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Black, Dawn (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Bonnar, Steven (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Bouse, Gary (Falkirk West) (SNP) Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con) Brown, Alan (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Campbell, Kate (Edinburgh Eastern, Musselburgh and Tranent) (SNP) Campbell, Michelle (Renfrewshire North and Cardonald) (SNP) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chou Turvey, Yi-pei (North East Scotland) (LD) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Day, Martyn (Falkirk East and Linlithgow) (SNP) Dijkstra-Downie, Sanne (Edinburgh Northern) (LD) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Kelvin and Maryhill) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Dunlop, Duncan (South Scotland) (LD) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fagan, Joe (South Scotland) (Lab) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Con) Gethins, Stephen (Dundee City East) (SNP) Ghani, Zen (Glasgow Cathcart and Pollok) (SNP) Gibson, Patricia (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Goodlad, Hannah Mary (Shetland Islands) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie) (SNP) Green, David (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) Griffin, Mark (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) Hagmann, Katie (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harley, Adam (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (LD) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen and Cambuslang) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hoy, Craig (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kerr, Alex (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) Kerr, Calum (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform) Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform) Kumar, Simita (Edinburgh South Western) (SNP) Langan, Jamie (South Scotland) (Reform) Linden, David (Glasgow Baillieston and Shettleston) (SNP) Lindsay, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Long, Joe (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) MacCallum, Morven-May (Highlands and Islands) (LD) MacDougall, Julie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) MacKinnon, Donald (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh North Eastern and Leith) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Massey, Duncan (North East Scotland) (Reform) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McDade, Helen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Easterhouse and Springburn) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian Coast and Lammermuirs) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Melville, Lloyd (Angus South) (SNP) Merrick, Colm (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Middleton, Jack (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mitchell, Laura (Moray) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Offord, Malcolm (West Scotland) (Reform) Oswald, Kirsten (Eastwood) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (Fife North East) (LD) Ross, Angela (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Reform) Sangster, Katherine (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Schmulian, Kim (Glasgow) (Reform) Simpson, Graham (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Simpson, Mark (North East Scotland) (Reform) Smith, Alyn (Stirling) (SNP) Smith, David (West Scotland) (Reform) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stafford, Pauline (Bathgate) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thewliss, Alison (Glasgow Central) (SNP) Young, Jenny (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S7M-00434.3, in the name of Mark Ruskell, is: For 15, Against 104, Abstentions 0.”
“However, as with our commitments on the A9 dualling, we recognise the significant disruption that is caused when there are landslips on the A83, and I hope that Parliament will back us through the budgetary process to ensure that that capital investment can be delivered. We are committed to continued engagement. On the specific points regarding alternative approaches, I will ask the cabinet secretary to update the member in writing. Rural Connectivity and Transport (Scottish Borders) 8.”
“I listened carefully to the minister’s response. Although I join in welcoming the temporary lifting of traffic lights, they are due to return in September, causing more disruption for businesses and residents. As the minister has acknowledged, the Rest and Be Thankful campaign group has suggested an alternative solution that would be quicker and cheaper. Will the Scottish Government prioritise that alternative route for investment, and can the minister outline what funding is in place for the Rest and Be Thankful over the lifetime of this Parliament? Tom Arthur: I assure Ms Baillie of the Government’s commitment to that work, but, as she fully appreciates, budgets are ultimately determined through a parliamentary process.”
“Maree Todd: I am more than happy to discuss that issue with Jackie Baillie and other interested representatives. Jackie Baillie will understand that I am new to my role. My understanding is that the initial recommendation was to move to five units, then to three. The change is already under way. In the east of the country, Fife babies already go to Edinburgh to receive that level of care; in the west, Ayrshire babies go to Glasgow. The next phase will take on board the learning from those initial pathways before we move on. I am more than happy to work with local members on that. However, as I understand it—I must be absolutely clear—the recommendation was for three units nationally, and that is about saving babies’ lives.”
“The report “The Best Start—A Five-year Forward Plan for Maternity and Neonatal Care in Scotland” recommended developing three to five neonatal intensive care units, yet the Scottish Government has agreed to reduce the number to three. Aside from the impact at Ninewells, that will result in the downgrading of the award-winning Wishaw neonatal unit. We also know that the lack of capacity in Glasgow means that mums and the very sickest babies may have to travel hundreds of miles to Aberdeen. That simply cannot be right. Will the minister look at that issue again, in the interests of mothers and babies, rethink the downgrade of the Wishaw neonatal unit and consider whether it is possible to have more than three intensive care units?”
“The day shift duty system is not a new concept; it is already being operated in Livingston and at multiple other locations across the United Kingdom. There are challenges with on- call firefighter recruitment and retention that are caused by demographic changes, particularly in rural and island areas. The SFRS has concluded that availability at night and at weekends is much better and that there tend to be particular difficulties during the day, which is because people no longer live and work in the same location. That is why having whole-time firefighters working during the day, which is also when the majority of incidents occur, is a viable and sensible solution. Community Cohesion 3.”
“The proposals for Hawick and Helensburgh fire stations are essentially the same: a move to a day shift duty system while relying on on-call firefighters at night and at weekends. Attendance during on-call shifts drops off dramatically and leads to delays in crews attending incidents, with potentially devastating results. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service does not appear to have published the consultation responses and is carrying on regardless. Will the cabinet secretary insist that the responses be published in full and the board decision be delayed until he has had a chance to speak to the Fire Brigades Union? Neil Gray: I reiterate that those decisions are operational matters for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service.”
“With regard to Wishaw neonatal, if someone has a very sick baby and that wee baby is not being cared for in the hospital closest to them, I well and truly understand the tension and distress that will cause. However, I also understand what we have to do to save young lives. On the basis of clinical advice, and with the support of organisations such as Bliss, we are moving to a model that has safety at its heart. I am happy to discuss that further. The terms of reference have still to be published. We would, of course, not publish the terms of reference before a chair was appointed, as a chair has a crucial role in drafting those, because they are, indeed, independent.”
“Where there are issues, I hope that the chamber and Ms Baillie know that I will always be candid and direct. If I need to lift the lid on something, I will do that. Transparency for families is absolutely crucial. I have been concerned by reports that I have read with respect to serious adverse reviews. At the very heart of those reports are issues around quality and timing. Those reports have to be done timeously, they must involve families and they must be of good quality, because they facilitate learning for the future. On Baird and ANCHOR—Aberdeen and north centre for haematology, oncology and radiotherapy—issues, we want those services to be open as soon as possible. However, they need to be safe before they are open. I think that we have all learned those lessons.”
“There is also the downgrading of the award- winning Wishaw neonatal unit. Consideration of neonatal services appears to have been dropped, and it would be helpful to know whether the cabinet secretary would reconsider that. In my constituency, midwives and expectant mothers are concerned by reports that triage calls that are currently dealt with by their local hospital, the Vale of Leven, could be centralised. What steps will the minister take to ensure that women who are giving birth receive safe, high-quality care, wherever they are in Scotland? Angela Constance: I will do my best to answer those points in turn while also trying to achieve brevity. Jackie Baillie said that Professor McCourt has her work cut out for her. I suggest that we all have our work cut out for us, because time does not stand still for any of us.”
“I welcome the cabinet secretary’s statement, and I welcome the appointment of Professor Christine McCourt. She has her work cut out for her. For example, inspections have revealed the significant delays for women who are waiting to be induced in Glasgow. Others are forced to travel 100 miles to give birth in Caithness, and there are shortages of midwives in Lothian. Parents who have lost babies are frustrated by the lack of transparency. Promises were made previously that parents such as Julie Keegan, who lost her baby boy, and Lori Quate, who lost both his wife and unborn child, would be part of the task force. Why have they not been involved? Only this week, we learned of further delays to the opening of the Baird family hospital, which provides maternity services. It is seven years late.”
“It starts with a parliamentary inquiry—and it is not an inquiry about the internal machinations of the SNP. We have better things to do. I say to SNP members that sunlight is the best disinfectant. If the First Minister and other senior SNP politicians claim that they have nothing to hide, what is there to fear? Let the sunlight in and vote for a parliamentary inquiry. The Presiding Officer: That concludes the debate on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics. Business Motion 17:52”
“However, if that is voted down today, then a joint inquiry or a Westminster- led inquiry is an option that is likely to be taken forward by others. By rejecting scrutiny, the SNP is putting party before country. We have seen this before. Last week, the Court of Session found ministers to be in contempt of court for their refusal to respond to a freedom of information request regarding the Salmond files. Stephen Kerr referenced that in his speech. In the past decade we have seen the appalling way in which relatives who lost loved ones at the Queen Elizabeth university hospital have been treated and in which the staff who whistleblew have been bullied and silenced. It is this culture of secrecy and cover-up that has infected the Government and some of our public institutions. Restoring trust starts with transparency and accountability.”
“The Greens’ amendment is arguably not needed if the Electoral Commission has responsibility for overseeing all political parties. I gently point out to them—as Alex Cole-Hamilton did earlier—that Professor James Mitchell has indicated: “I do NOT support the Green amendment. It is an attempt to evade the very serious issues that require focus on SNP financial mismanagement.” That is a direct quote. As Joanna Cherry, the former SNP MP and KC, said: “The fact that public money may have been stolen makes the requirement for a parliamentary or other independent inquiry all the more necessary.” None of those questions is about the internal workings of the SNP. I know that colleagues in the Scottish Affairs Committee are considering whether to launch their own inquiry. My preference is that the inquiry is done by this Parliament.”
“In 2020, in response to concerns from SNP members that donations for a referendum campaign had been spent on other matters, the SNP treasurer, Colin Beattie, said that “donations are woven through the overall income figures each year.” If donations were not ring fenced, what reassurance can the SNP give that public money was not also woven through the accounts and consequently spent by Murrell? There is, apparently, just one bank account. I also have questions for the Electoral Commission. Its role is to oversee and monitor the operation of political parties. Does it have enough powers? What enforcement action can it take? Were complaints made to the Electoral Commission about the SNP’s finances at the time, and how were they taken forward?”
“Why did it take so long for the Crown Office to decide to prosecute? Pauline McNeill is right: if Murrell indicated that he would plead guilty on 3 March, why was the case postponed until after the election? Why was Murrell granted legal aid when he part owned a villa in Portugal—an asset that was not frozen and that he sold after his application was granted? Why is legal aid not recoverable in Scotland? Did the SNP unwittingly make fraudulent VAT claims on Murrell’s purchases? How much was claimed? The Electoral Commission gave the SNP a policy development grant worth, on average, £175,000 a year—more than £2.4 million over the period of Murrell’s crimes. The House of Commons gave the SNP more than £8 million in Short money over the same period.”
“There was a culture that bullied and intimidated those who raised legitimate questions, a culture of denial and deflection, and a culture of secrecy and cover-up. The shame, the dishonesty and the cover-up speak for themselves. Although I do not believe that the Scottish Greens support such a culture, in coming to the SNP’s aid they are giving it cover. The claim that this is about internal politics is fundamentally wrong. This is about honesty, trust and integrity. This is about ministers knowingly making public statements that are wrong or, at the very least, incompetent. Many questions—from members of the public, SNP members, police officers and those in the legal profession who have contacted me— remain unanswered. Why did it take more than four years, at a cost of £2.7 million, for the police to investigate?”
“Jamie Hepburn: I find it interesting that, although Ms Baillie said that it is not for others to take an interest in the SNP’s internal affairs, she is now talking extensively about the appointment of a KC and the thin nature of our internal governance review. It seems that she is taking an interest. Does that not speak to the very point that that is exactly what an inquiry would do, which is why we should not agree to one? Jackie Baillie: The minister misunderstands and is clearly not listening. The people of Scotland are interested in those wider questions, but that is not what I am suggesting the inquiry should do. I have been very clear on that point. Let me go back to what Robin McAlpine had to say about democracy and culture.”
“Contrary to what John Swinney seems to think, I am clear that it is not for me or this Parliament to consider the internal financial operation of the SNP. It is a matter for the SNP itself. I gently suggest to the First Minister that there is much merit in Alex Neil’s suggestion of asking an independent KC to examine the governance arrangements, both then and now, so that he can satisfy himself that robust arrangements are in place. The First Minister’s so-called governance review was pretty thin. Interestingly, Robin McAlpine noted yesterday that the problem in the SNP was not about rules and procedures but about democracy and culture.”
“If this was just a crime conducted by the most senior officer of the SNP—the governing party in Scotland—that would be bad enough, but, at the time, this was the husband of the former First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, and the childhood friend of the current First Minister, John Swinney, who appointed him to his role. In that context, it is simply not credible for John Swinney to say, “There is nothing to see here. Trust me.” The First Minister says that, because there has been a police investigation, there is no need for a parliamentary inquiry. Let me reassure John Swinney that I have nothing but admiration for the police and have no intention of marking their homework, but the police themselves are not happy. Wider questions arise from this, and I will set them out shortly.”
“The story of Peter Murrell embezzling more than £400,000 from the SNP is, frankly, one of the biggest scandals of the devolution era. SNP speakers’ repeated attempts at deflection today have been embarrassing, because winning an election is not justification for covering up stealing £400,000. This story is fundamentally about power and trust, and it has implications for all of us in this Parliament. Willie Rennie is right: there might well be personal tragedies in all of this, but this is about professional failure. People believe that this is corruption at the highest level.”
“The key and absolute qualification for any First Minister of Scotland is that “that individual must be able to command the trust of the Parliament and the public.”—[Official Report, 28 November 2001; c 4118.] Those are not my words but those of John Swinney and, on that point, we are in complete agreement. However, we have just come out of an election in which only half of Scots voted. I say this to SNP members who say that this debate is simply a distraction and that we should get on with delivery: we need trust and transparency as foundations in this Parliament in order to do exactly that. Trust in politics feels like it is at an all-time low, but the revelations over the past few weeks mean that that trust has been further undermined.”
“I move amendment S7M-00294.1, to leave out from “agrees” to end and insert: “considers the notion of representatives of political parties using a parliamentary committee to inquire into the internal operations of rival political parties to constitute a conflict of interest; believes that it is vital that independent authorities, including Police Scotland and the Crown Office, are free from political interference to fully and properly investigate and prosecute any and all criminal conduct, and urges elected representatives to use their parliamentary time to address matters that will improve the lives of the people of Scotland including tackling the cost of living crisis, improving public services such as the NHS and taking climate action.” 15:46”
“However, the real response is not to conduct an exercise in what, in my view, would inevitably become— whatever its formal terms of reference—a partisan political exercise; it is to ensure that our independent institutions are properly respected, properly insulated from political pressure and properly trusted to complete their work. Let the law do its work, let this Parliament do ours and let us ensure that this Parliament returns to doing what it does best: legislating, scrutinising Government and making the case for a Scotland that works better for the people who live here. I urge Parliament to support the amendment in my name.”
“However, trust in Government, in elected officials and in the democratic institution that we all stood for a little over a month ago is important. When our institutions behave with integrity, when the police investigate without fear or favour, when the Crown Office acts on evidence, when the courts consider matters free from external influence and when this Parliament focuses its energy on the people’s priorities, that is when trust is earned. I do not pretend that trust has not been damaged in recent weeks, months and years, but let none of us pretend—this speaks to the points that were made by Mr Harvie and Mr Greer—that the blame for that can be laid at any single door. Also, let none of us pretend that the damage is not real and that it does not deserve a real response.”
“Not to you. Jamie Hepburn: It is precisely because those things matter—they matter very much to me, Ms Baillie—that it matters that accountability has a proper home. In this instance, transparency has been best served by independent authorities that have the legal compulsion powers to extract it. The trust of the Scottish public, which every member presumably wishes to restore, will not be rebuilt by politicians using the machinery of Parliament to fight battles that belong in court or looking at matters of internal party governance. I will close by speaking directly to the values that underlie this debate. No one in this chamber should be in any doubt that Scotland is not alone in experiencing falling levels of trust. Around the world, trust in Governments, institutions and, indeed, democracy itself is in retreat.”
“We still do not know who told them to say that, or why. Jamie Hepburn: Government ministers are, quite correctly, accountable for their Government ministerial responsibilities, and they will be held to account by the Parliament. That speaks to the very point that I am striving to make. In relation to the point about the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee, it is the role of that committee to ensure that we adhere to the standards that are expected of us as members of the Scottish Parliament. Today, this Parliament is trying to veer into the territory of the internal governance of an individual political party. That would be a bad precedent to set.”
“It was about HMRC. Jamie Hepburn: I think that the question was about Short money, Ms Baillie, and it would be a matter for the Electoral Commission. Alex Cole-Hamilton: Will the minister give way? Jamie Hepburn: I will give way one more time, to Mr Cole-Hamilton. Alex Cole-Hamilton: The minister suggests that it would be inappropriate for a committee of inquiry to investigate the issue, but we have the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee, which regularly investigates matters and is entrusted to do so in an impartial way. I do not see any disparity with that. Does the minister recognise that there are still questions for Government ministers to answer? At the time when it was seized, the camper van was explained away by a senior SNP source as a legitimate campaign room.”
“Jenny Gilruth: I cannot give Ms Baillie a specific date at the current time, as I am awaiting advice on that from my officials, but I am more than happy to correspond with her on the challenge that she has put to me today. However, I hope that she recognises that significant investment is being put in place to support projects such as the one that she has outlined. I am more than happy to write to her with further detail when I receive it. High Streets (Businesses) 9.”
“Decisions on the allocation and timing of funding for subsequent projects, including Dumbarton, will be taken as part of future phases of the infrastructure and investment programme. I do, however, expect to receive further advice on the next stages from my officials during the coming weeks, and I will be happy to provide Jackie Baillie with further updates when they are available. Jackie Baillie: The former Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care visited Dumbarton health centre with me earlier this year and agreed that the Greater Glasgow and Clyde health board would consider it as an equal priority to a health centre in Port Glasgow. Can the cabinet secretary tell me when there will actually be shovels in the ground, because a response to an earlier question suggested that it could be as late as five years from now?”
“To ask the Scottish Government, in light of the 2026 Scottish National Party manifesto commitment of £10 billion in capital spending on health, including community health and care hubs, when it will allocate funding to build a new Dumbarton health centre. (S7O-00036) The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government (Jenny Gilruth): Ten billion pounds-worth of capital investment in health infrastructure is planned for the coming decade. Work is already underway to develop a standardised approach to the planning, design and delivery of projects that were announced as part of the infrastructure delivery pipeline in January 2026. The first tranche of projects is currently being progressed. Dumbarton health centre is recognised as a priority in NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde’s primary care estate.”
“Health and social care partnerships had to make cuts to local care services of more than £500 million, and that figure is expected to be worse this year. The cabinet secretary and her new minister will need to intervene urgently if the present crisis is not to deepen. It has come after five years of our asking for care workers to be paid at least £15 an hour, but I welcome other parties’ new-found commitment to doing so. We cannot expect to recruit and retain social care staff when they could be paid more for stacking supermarket shelves. The minister has rightly thanked NHS staff for their hard work. The NHS and social care would be nothing without dedicated staff, but the reality is that front-line staff feel demoralised and burnt out, and some of them are voting with their feet.”
“Better-resourced GPs will deliver more preventative care, which, in turn, will mean fewer people requiring operations or turning up at A and E. However, reducing pressure on hospitals also means investing in social care. Nearly 2,000 Scots are stuck in limbo due to delayed discharge, which means 2,000 beds that would otherwise have been available to new patients. Meanwhile, Scotland faces a social care crisis. Social care is about much more than just helping the NHS; it is key to people living healthier and happier lives in our communities. I welcome Alison Thewliss to her post as Minister for Community Care; she has many challenges to deal with. For example, at the start of May, 9,572 people were waiting for either a social care assessment or a social care package.”
“Does she also agree that it is right to implement innovation? People who have busy working lives, as I do, need an appointment when we need it, but people such as my mother will indeed want continuity of care. It is not a case of needing one thing or the other; we need different services for different people, at the right time. Jackie Baillie: I absolutely agree that we need innovation and to be able to move forward, and that it is not a case of putting one thing against another. However, we have not thought through how to secure continuity of care and how to make other aspects work better, such as deciding where test results go when they show up—to the GP or to the walk-in clinic. I do not have a GP walk-in clinic in my area; the walk-in clinic is the GP practice, so let us fund that adequately.”
“Patients are still waiting for the facility to book GP appointments on the NHS app, and I look forward to that being rolled out at pace. The cabinet secretary knows that the percentage of the NHS budget that goes to primary care has dropped from 11 per cent to only 6 per cent, that the number of patients per GP has increased and that qualified GPs are out of work because GP practices cannot afford to hire them. Doctors have already made clear their concerns that GP walk-in clinics are not effective and do not provide what I think we all strive for, which is continuity of care. The message is that we should just fund existing GP practices, which should be the walk-in clinics in everybody’s community. Angela Constance: Does Ms Baillie agree that reform is necessary and not optional?”
“The reality is that the SNP has presided over the growth of a two-tier health system in which people who have savings are raiding them to pay for treatment and those who do not are left languishing in pain. If the new cabinet secretary is true to her word and serious about getting waiting lists down, she must use all available theatre capacity. I also recommend that she ensures that money follows the patient instead of their being left at the mercy of health board bureaucracy. Emergency departments are under pressure, too. Each month, thousands of patients are still waiting for more than eight or even 12 hours at A and E. A significant proportion of those patients would not be there at all had they been able to access care earlier, but many people are still struggling to get through to GPs.”
“However, with no timelines and no money, they simply gathered dust. The Scottish Government’s flagship promise last year was the commitment to end, by March 2026, treatment waits of more than a year. I distinctly recall the First Minister making that commitment. It should have been delivered more than three months ago, yet there are still 32,279 treatment waits of more than a year, 3,433 waits of more than two years and, at the last count, more than 750,000 ongoing waits for tests and treatment. Behind those figures are people in pain, who are waiting day after day for the appointment letter that never comes. In the meantime, their lives are on hold. Some become so desperate that they use their savings to get private surgery. We know that the number of Scots who are using private healthcare is the highest ever on record.”
“The situation with A and E remains chaotic, with long waits now almost baked in. Burnt-out NHS staff are voting with their feet, and the social care sector is in crisis. Fixing the NHS will require fresh thinking. The Scottish National Party has been in power for nearly 20 years, and I genuinely believe that, if it had any idea how to turn things around, that would have happened by now. I look forward to what Angela Constance is going to do. However, to quote Samuel Johnson, that is perhaps expecting a “triumph of hope over experience”. Angela Constance’s predecessors were very good at creating NHS plans—in fact, they could probably paper the walls of St Andrew’s house with them—but they were much less effective at delivering them. In many cases, the plans were excellent; they were informed by people who worked in that sector.”
“Thank you, Presiding Officer. [Interruption.] Oh! Did I make that noise with the microphone? I will start the debate on a consensual note. I very much welcome Angela Constance to her new post as Cabinet Secretary for Health and Care. I have considerable respect for her as an individual—I hope that my saying that is not career ending for her—and as a politician, and I wish her well in her portfolio. Our NHS needs her to do well. The cabinet secretary will, of course, expect me to hold her feet to the fire and, on that score, I will not disappoint, because the NHS is our most loved public institution. We care deeply that it remains true to its founding principles and is free at the point of need, but we recognise that it faces huge challenges. Thousands of Scots languish on NHS waiting lists.”
“I wish all Scotland’s athletes and players the very best of luck for this summer. We will all derive great joy from their competition, and I am sure that those sportsmen and women will do us all proud. I move amendment S7M-00208.1, to insert at end: “, and calls on the Scottish Government to publish a plan and timetable for the provision of free swimming lessons for every primary school child.” 15:53”
“That has the support of all parties in the chamber, and many included similar commitments in their manifestos. We want the Government to make progress on that, and I press the minister to say how it will be delivered. In my area, we currently have a waiting list for swimming lessons. That backlog is a hangover from Covid; however, there is also a shortage of swimming teachers and facilities. Only 16 per cent of young people from disadvantaged areas take part in swimming lessons. That is a massive inequality. I am therefore genuinely interested to know what steps the minister will take and whether she can tell us when the commitment is likely to be delivered. We lodged our amendment to try to accelerate progress on that, and get an indication of when the Government will do so.”