Sarah Boyack
Scottish Labour · Scotland
“It must ensure that people get support to make their homes warm and energy efficient; support on solar, heat pumps and heat networks; affordable and accessible buses that they can rely on, with links to our railways; investment in our land to restore our peatlands; and a joined-up approach to food production and biodiversity.”
“Referring to what Ariane Burgess said, I have also been campaigning on the need to urgently address our climate and nature emergencies and to create decent jobs and empower local communities at the same time. For me, being in here is about delivering change that will benefit my constituents.”
“That taught me that constructive hard work and using the powers of our Parliament could deliver real change. For me, it was about investing in our railways—Airdrie to Bathgate, Larkhall to Milngavie and Stirling to Alloa, and supporting work on the Borders railway—as well as new CalMac ferries, improving island airports and tackling potho…”
“I hope that it is okay that I borrow a minute from my colleague. In the run-up to the 2016 election, I worked on a member’s bill to introduce a transient visitor levy.”
“In the climate change plan, we also set out greater detail on our methodology in order to provide greater transparency on the key assumptions and dependencies. However, Sarah Boyack is absolutely right, and that is where constructive criticism comes in— constructive criticism that recognises all the things in the plan that we need to do.”
“We need an urgent focus on implementation. Does the cabinet secretary agree that a key message from those who gave evidence to the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee and other parliamentary committees was that it is all about delivery and that the draft plan did not go far enough?”
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“The Parliament’s cross-party group on international development had positive feedback about the transformative impact that the Scottish Government’s international development fund delivers on issues such as employment and education for women and climate-resilient food production. However, our report recommended that the Government should provide greater clarity and transparency on such funding, to improve accountability so that we can monitor its impact and the benefits for local communities. Will the Scottish Government now do that? The First Minister: I am very supportive of such an approach, because it is important that public confidence about the effectiveness of the programmes is maximised. The suggestion that Sarah Boyack puts to me is strong.”
“The Deputy Presiding Officer: No, there is no time. Sarah Boyack: We will not vote against the carbon targets tonight; we will abstain, because we urgently need to see the detail from the Scottish Government, as well as its long-delayed energy strategy, for which we have been waiting for more than two years. 18:00”
“People across the country need public transport and the infrastructure that lets them use their electric vehicles and makes it affordable for freight and logistics businesses to decarbonise. More needs to be done to enable land use to help reduce emissions, with the right support for our agricultural communities, because climate change and extreme weather create not only new challenges but opportunities to deliver Scottish- produced food and to enable our natural environments, such as peatlands, to make a significant contribution to our goals. However, we have discussed these issues for years. As we debate the SSI, it is deeply disappointing that we do not have a plan. If we had a plan that we could debate at the same time, we could target the areas where we need more action. Kate Forbes: Will the member take an intervention?”
“Every local authority now has a heat network strategy, as requested by the Scottish Government, but the Scottish Government needs to step up and have a plan. In my region, we have massive opportunities. For example, in the Shawfair development, Midlothian Council’s publicly owned heat network has powered 3,500 new homes with energy from waste. We could have such projects across the region. The Berwick bank offshore wind project will come online soon but, without a joined-up approach, the Government will pay the developers to turn off the turbines when we have too much electricity. Why not link it with other networks now and support our local authorities? It is good that the Cabinet Secretary for Transport is here.”
“The cabinet secretary always says that budgets are tight, but this year the Scottish Government got an additional £5.2 billion from the UK Government. It is not only the cabinet secretary who has responsibility for doing what needs to be done, because every part of the Scottish Government needs to invest in climate adaptation to support local supply chains, create jobs, reduce people’s bills and cut our emissions. Last week, when I was at the Labour conference, I attended a raft of meetings focusing on the positive impacts of investment in community solar projects, the work to make people’s homes more energy efficient—which, again, is a win-win—and investment in local communities. We need a retrofit revolution in Scotland now, but we are not seeing it yet. The missed opportunities in relation to homes and buildings are massive.”
“Of course, we will need not only a plan but robust sector-specific strategies. I will focus mostly on housing, because there is much more that we could do and must do in that area. The UK Committee on Climate Change says that, by 2035, the majority of homes should be heated using low-carbon electrical heat networks. Although we have standards to reduce emissions in new buildings and the requirement for some form of renewables to be used, we urgently need to see more support for existing households to decarbonise in a way that is affordable. I have regularly pushed the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Action and Energy on the issue of the end of support for home owners to install solar panels before they install a heat pump.”
“This week, the Scottish Environment Protection Agency issued water scarcity warnings across key parts of Scotland while, at the same time, during storm Amy, communities were cut off from electricity and suffered flooding. We are going to get more and more extreme weather hitting communities and businesses, so we urgently need action and a plan from the Scottish Government. We need an acceleration in emissions reductions, investment in adaptation to protect communities and businesses, and a focus on the highest emissions, on targeting, on mitigation and on the adaptation of our homes, buildings, transport, land and industry. However, when we discussed that at the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee, it was striking that there was no detail about the implementation of the plan, and that is critical.”
“This debate is crucial. We all know that we are here because the Scottish Government did not meet its annual climate targets in nine out of 13 years, even though the targets were capable of being met. Without a comprehensive and specified plan, there is no way that we will meet the purported targets on our way to net zero. The United Kingdom Climate Change Committee is clear that the 75 per cent emissions target for 2030—five years away— will not be met until 2036. To be clear: we support the principle of legally binding carbon targets. However, we urgently need a plan to deliver on them, and we do not have that. We are in a climate emergency. We are seeing wildfires and flooding not only in southern Europe and east Asia but in Scotland.”
“If things improve in relation to our settlement from the United Kingdom Government, I will be able to take measures such as the ones that Sarah Boyack has outlined. Public Body Officials 7.”
“Given the huge potential of heat pumps, will the Scottish Government consider reintroducing financial support for householders to install solar panels as a first step to installing heat pumps? Our constituents are now cancelling their plans to install heat pumps, which is bad news for our climate, for their homes and for the companies that make heat pumps in Scotland. Gillian Martin: With the fiscal constraints at the moment, we have had to make some choices about where we put support. I would love to be in a position to extend the support available into other technologies such as the ones that Sarah Boyack mentions, but we have to look at where, with the funding that we have got, we can make the biggest difference to decarbonisation and have some effect on fuel poverty.”
“Will the minister take an intervention? Siobhian Brown: I would like to make some progress. Continuing to keep everything the same for decades would not be efficient or effective and would not ensure that taxpayers’ money was invested in the right way. There is a wide disparity between the numbers of incidents that fire stations respond to, which is why the SFRS is looking to adjust the resources that are present in some locations. I emphasise that the driver for the changes that the SFRS proposes is to better align resources to current risks; it is not about saving money.”
“If stakeholder support is heavily caveated, as was shown throughout the consultation on the bill, it will not truly meet the aims for students and learners, now or in the future. Those are the questions that the Parliament should be asking, and the bill does not come anywhere close to allowing us to do that. That is why Scottish Labour cannot support the bill. 16:06”
“Without those questions being answered, we cannot ask the bigger, better questions such as how the bill will enable our young people to thrive or support Scotland’s long-suffering further and higher education workforce. A more responsive and coherent funding system for post-school education and training is an aim that we share across the chamber, and it is one that the sector has long called for, but the bill does not convincingly deliver that aim, and it potentially risks making matters worse for learners and providers. If we are to have successful apprenticeships, it is vital that the expertise of trade unions and businesses is drawn on in delivering those apprenticeships. A bill that has such an important aim must be backed up with strong stakeholder support.”
“Sarah Boyack: No, thank you. The concerns heard by the committee from Unite, the PCS union and UNISON that their members are being left in the dark about the ramifications of the bill are another damning indictment. We still have no clear answers about which workers, or even how many, would transfer between Skills Development Scotland and the Scottish Funding Council. I acknowledge the difficulties that have been presented by Skills Development Scotland’s unwillingness to produce figures. How can we honestly be expected to back a bill that fails to provide those basic and fundamental facts? Without answering simple questions such as how many workers the bill will affect, the Scottish Government cannot seriously expect us to support the bill.”
“Not only does the bill fail to deliver for young people but, at a time when further and higher education institutions are under so much pressure, the bill entirely fails to deliver the sustainability supports that the sector is crying out for. Stephen Kerr: The Government talks a lot about so-called positive destinations. The member referred earlier to the statistics about those aged 16 and 17. Does she believe that further work needs to be done to convince the Government that there is an issue with where young people are spending their lives and their time? Sarah Boyack: Absolutely. In my portfolio of climate and net zero, there are missed opportunities in retrofitting homes, which young people from every single community in Scotland could be leading on. That is not being addressed. Ben Macpherson: Will the member take an intervention?”
“The Government has yet again proposed legislation—as it has with the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill—that fails to address the systemic issues that children and young people face in this country. It is absolutely shocking that one in 10 of our 16 to 24- year-olds are currently not in employment, education or training, according to the Government’s figures. This bill was decried by unions as “fraught with risk” for apprenticeships, and running those risks does nothing for the young people who are being failed by a system that does not work for them. Creating a much larger Scottish Funding Council without adequate assurances about its ability to continue functioning properly does nothing for those young people.”
“I welcome Ben Macpherson to his new post and thank the committee and all those involved in the scrutiny of the bill for their hard work. The bill is critical, because Scotland urgently needs an adequately funded and responsive system for post-school education and training. Our further education sector is at crisis point and, in some cases, far beyond it. Although the aims of the bill are laudable, it is unfortunately yet another example of the Government failing to do the heavy lifting to create a bill that answers the big questions about our further education system. We—and, most importantly, our young people— need those questions answered.”
“To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its progress on the development and expansion of heat networks across Scotland, including any plans it has to accelerate deployment to meet heat network decarbonisation targets. (S6O-04992)”
“It specifies that, in preparing the guidance, Government ministers should consult local authorities, organisations that provide support to care-experienced young people and others whom the ministers think appropriate, and such views must be represented. Amendment 308 follows amendment 307 by seeking to ensure consistency across the support that is provided. Inconsistency is well recognised by stakeholders, and both amendments are supported by Who Cares? Scotland and the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland, which I thank for engaging with me on the issues.”
“At stage 2, the cabinet secretary said that the homelessness system in Scotland is based on whether someone is homeless or threatened with homelessness, not on their circumstances. She also noted that legislation recognises the specific needs of particular groups through regulations and guidance. However, it is clear from the evidence that care-experienced young people are still falling through the gaps, and amendment 307 could help to address that. Amendment 308, which is also in my name, seeks to place a duty on the Scottish ministers to prepare guidance for local authorities on throughcare and aftercare support that could be offered to care-experienced young people.”
“The Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland noted that some care leavers are unaware that support exists and that there are examples of them not receiving that entitlement when a situation of potential homelessness arises. Recently, Claire Burns from CELCIS told the Education, Children and Young People Committee that we have to look at aftercare because “there was too much feedback about its not working”.— [Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 10 September 2025; c 94.] Fraser McKinlay of The Promise Scotland told the committee that only 48 per cent of people access the aftercare and support that they need. For those reasons, having opportunities to refer on to other organisations is not just helpful but could address gaps in statutory services and provide the additional support that is needed.”
“In cases where a homeless applicant is a care leaver, amendment 307 would put a duty on local authorities to offer them a referral to organisations that provide throughcare and aftercare support services. Care leavers are defined as those who are under the age of 26 and still entitled to throughcare and aftercare services from their local social work department. When I lodged my stage 2 amendment, I noted that, despite the fact that care leavers are entitled to those services, in practice, when someone who is care experienced is made homeless or threatened with homelessness, we see a disconnect between housing providers and other areas of state support.”
“The amendment would strengthen the law and would ensure that local authorities put families and individuals in accommodation that meets their needs, rather than just dumping them wherever they can find somewhere for them. Pam Duncan-Glancy: At stage 2, I lodged amendments that were the same as amendments 307 and 308 with the support of many care leavers and of the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland. The issue is of great concern to a number of people who are in the care system or leaving it and who feel that people are failed at the point at which they leave the system, when they do not get the support that they need to access housing.”
“Again, I lodged the same amendment at stage 2 and I had a helpful discussion with the cabinet secretary on the issue during the summer. I do not want to prejudge what she will say, but I think that she will say that this is another thing that is already in legislation and is not required. I gently point out to her that I have on numerous occasions been contacted, particularly by disabled constituents but also by those who have many people in their family, who have been offered accommodation that clearly is not suitable. Local authorities are not approaching the issue in a way that is fair to families. Too often, disabled people are put in accommodation that is clearly not suitable for them.”
“If they do it once, they do not want to have to do it again. My fear is that, unless we can work this out properly, we will find that data sharing issues are an excuse that is used by those who do not want to take part in the scheme. 20:15 Amendment 108 is a probing amendment and I do not intend to move it. However, I am concerned that the bill has lots of carrots but not many sticks. The presumption of the cabinet secretary and the Government is that everybody will play nicely and do what they are meant to do. Perhaps I am just old and cynical, but my experience is that that is not the reality. I worry that there are not enough sticks to encourage those who are not playing as the cabinet secretary would want them to. Amendment 106 relates to the suitability of accommodation.”
“That is why it is important that the next Scottish Government, whatever its colour, should bring forward a report that the whole Parliament—and certain committees in particular—can scrutinise in detail. Amendment 107 is a similar amendment to that of Sarah Boyack with regard to data sharing. I know that all of us MSPs can get frustrated by the number of forms that we have to get our constituents to fill in before we can get information from a local authority or a health board. Across the piece, the excuse that is often made by the national health service, local councils or other public bodies is, “We can’t tell you this because of data protection.” The scheme will not work unless organisations are willing to share appropriate information with one another. People do not want to come forward and share information again and again.”
“I agree with the comments that Sarah Boyack made. I think that she has perhaps gone slightly too far with some of the organisations, but Social Security Scotland is undoubtedly one that should be there. On amendment 119, the reason why I raise this matter again is that, in many ways, we are being asked to take a leap into the dark with the bill. We are being asked to accept that things will be followed up on through regulations once these pilot programmes have worked their way through. These programmes have not started yet, and we have very little detail as to how they will work in practice and what information they will give. It would seem irresponsible for this Parliament to make such decisions for the next Parliament, unless the pilot projects can be fully debated and the lessons learned, both positive and negative, can be worked out.”
“Those organisations are important because they could save the public sector a huge amount of money at local authority level—and because they could keep people well and safe and prevent them from becoming homeless. I move amendment 306. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I call Jeremy Balfour to speak to amendment 106 and other amendments in the group. Jeremy Balfour: I agree with Sarah Boyack’s opening remarks. This part of the bill is vital for the whole of Scotland but, in many ways, particularly for those of us who represent Edinburgh and Lothian, which is facing a major issue with homelessness and the lack of housing. I thank the many third sector charities that I have engaged with—both as an individual and with the committee—for bringing things forward. I will not add too much about amendment 109 with regard to Social Security Scotland.”
“CPPs are potentially the natural forum to spot systemic risks—for example, local employment changes, transport disruption, service design—and would close the loop so that we have practical referrals, not plans. I know that Elena Whitham has also lodged an amendment that aims to add community planning partnerships, so I hope that there is a degree of support for that key issue across the chamber. The Deputy Presiding Officer: As briefly as possible, Ms Boyack. Sarah Boyack: My last four amendments relate to a range of public sector organisations, including Highlands and Islands Enterprise, national park authorities, and regional transport partnerships. I also highlight Social Security Scotland in particular.”
“It is absolutely not about taking over the roles of our councils; it is about helping them. I have a series of seven amendments that name key organisations. Amendment 318 names the colleges of further education, the British Waterways Board and the Crofting Commission, which are bodies that potentially see risk early. Colleges support students who face family or financial shocks. The British Waterways Board and the Crofting Commission have access to rural households, whose housing security can be fragile. Therefore, a simple duty to ask and act would help to prevent crises before they reach the council. Amendment 319 relates to community planning partnerships under the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015 and would enable co- ordinated and place-based prevention.”
“I know that ministers might say that guidance could deliver that, but we have a bill in front of us that would give a legal basis and enable us to get into the detail, which ministers could consult on in detail with the Information Commissioner’s Office and stakeholders, and then come back to Parliament on. We need to share only what is necessary, no more, and only to stop a crisis before it happens. That is what amendment 316 aims to do. I have included a raft of organisations in my next set of amendments, because an ask-and-act duty must exist whereby people who are aware of those risks then do something about it, because that is not happening at the moment. Naming bodies would also avoid buck passing and give consistency. The duty is proportionate: it is to ask, signpost, and make a referral as appropriate.”
“The provisions in amendment 313 would give clear, early legal information sharing with an opt-out, so that people do not have to tell their story again and again before they get help. At the cross-party group on housing, we published a report on student homelessness, and it was incredibly moving to speak to students, given the huge pressures that they are facing. We should think about how that impacts on their lives and about the situation of young people who are stuck in temporary accommodation. Amendment 313 would give us the opportunity to provide a legal basis for action.”
“Amendment 306 gives us the opportunity to get exact information on the scale of the housing need through a deliberative and preventative framework, and that has to be seen as an opportunity. Having a high degree of accuracy on the number of homeless households and on where they are will help us to prioritise and to determine where we need to focus in building and planning for the exact types of homes that are needed urgently to address homelessness. Amendment 313 would create a clear statutory gateway for proportionate information sharing when a relevant body believes that someone is homeless or is threatened with homelessness. Prevention fails when our health systems, justice systems and education systems know that there is a risk, but people do not ask for the help that they need and then slip through the net.”
“The Parliament would set the framework through the legislation, and ministers would be able to provide detailed safeguards for scrutiny and to design the detail, learning from discussions that I know will have been held over a number of months with our new Cabinet Secretary for Housing. If we were to accept amendment 306, we would ensure that organisations were able to work together to allocate suitable housing, which would streamline the resources that are required for a household that has applied to be homeless in multiple local authority areas. The amendment also gives more detailed information about the depth and breadth of the housing issues that Scotland faces. It is critical to understand the scale of the issue in order to identify how many new homes are needed, and exactly where.”
“We cannot plan for what we do not measure, and data is currently fragmented across our councils. If we had more effective planning and a register, it would help us to understand the scale of the national housing emergency. We currently do not have sufficiently detailed data on those who are threatened with homelessness or those who are currently experiencing it. We had a long debate about the matter several months ago with the then Minister for Housing, and we discussed the issue of data protection. I think that amendment 306 addresses both data protection and cost concerns. The detail sits in affirmative regulations after consultation by the Scottish Government. The information would constitute a minimal data set, and it would be subject to role-based access and audit.”
“I first draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests and my previous work with the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations. This aspect of the bill is critical, because it is about tackling homelessness and, crucially, preventing homelessness. That is not a current priority and the current measures are not working at the moment, as thousands of families and people are becoming homeless and are getting stuck in temporary accommodation for too long. That is a huge cost to them as individuals, and it is a huge cost to our local authorities. Prioritising the prevention of homelessness is the purpose of my amendments in this group. I will shortly move amendment 306, which will establish a national register of homeless households.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted no. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Ms Boyack. Your vote will be recorded.”
“The key to delivering a circular economy locally and to creating jobs is to set targets for reuse. Spain, Portugal, France and Belgium are making progress on it, so will the Scottish Government set a reuse target and support local authorities with advice and finance to deliver on it? Ivan McKee: As I have indicated, our recycling improvement fund has allocated more than £66 million to 48 projects and 27 local authorities in order to deliver more frequent recycling collections and boost Scotland’s capacity to recycle problematic materials such as plastic film. We are also the first Government in the UK to commit to action on single-use vapes—from 1 June 2025, they can no longer be stocked or supplied in Scotland. We are taking measures to make a difference, and the numbers demonstrate that we are making progress.”
“Amendment 137 agreed to. Amendment 63 moved—[Màiri McAllan]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 63 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Abstentions Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 103, Against 0, Abstentions 7.”
“Amendment 62 agreed to. Amendment 137 moved—[Màiri McAllan]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 137 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members indicated agreement. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The Parliament is agreed— Maggie Chapman: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There was a late no there. I ask members to try to follow the process as we do it, or perhaps to speak more loudly, because I did not hear the member say that. There will be a division.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 78, Against 32, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment 136 disagreed to. 16:30 Amendment 62 moved—[Màiri McAllan]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 62 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed. Sarah Boyack: On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I refreshed the app, and it would not let me vote. I would have voted yes. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Ms Boyack. Your vote will be recorded.”
“For Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 8, Against 101, Abstentions 0.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I tried to vote no, but it went as a yes. I just want to check that my vote is recorded properly. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Ms Boyack, what I can say is that the record will show how you voted. Sarah Boyack: Can I clarify? I initially voted yes, then I double-checked and did vote no, and it would not let me go from yes to no within the time of the vote. I think that it is important to log that. I did try to vote no. The Deputy Presiding Officer: All that I can say at this point, Ms Boyack, is that the vote is recorded as a yes. That is the process.”
“I advise members that we have a bit of time in hand, so I imagine that members will be able to get the time back for any interventions. I call Maggie Chapman to speak on behalf of the SPCB. 15:39”
“We need to avoid duplication—that was an issue that I looked at in my bill and spoke to the Auditor General about. Clarity of roles is key, and a memorandum of understanding is a good way to avoid overlap—there is work that we could do in that regard. I urge the Parliament to agree to our Scottish Labour amendment and to proceed with the recommendations on the pilot oversight committee in the next session, with clear metrics for that committee and the resources that are necessary to make it a success. Let us seize the moment, not only to tidy up structures but to make institutions and decision making fit for the future, transparent, effective and trusted. I move amendment S6M-18936.1, to leave out from “, and agrees” to end. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Ms Boyack.”
“It is critical that the Parliament hears the voices of service users, children, young people, marginalised individuals and those who are most affected by failures of oversight but who are not regularly enabled to be consulted. The pilot needs to be geographically inclusive, too. In the criteria for establishing new bodies, making the most efficient use of resources is key. That is why I support the hub-and-spoke model and using existing public sector office space to make sure that we get the effectiveness that is needed. That aligns well with the work that I have been doing on my member’s bill on wellbeing and sustainable development. The report makes an important and timely contribution to on-going efforts to make sure that our public sector operates with greater coherence, transparency and long-term accountability.”
“The report makes an important recommendation that “a parliamentary committee is given the specific responsibility for the accountability and scrutiny of SPCB supported bodies for a fixed period as a pilot exercise” in session 7. That will be an additional commitment in the already overstretched capacity of the SPCB and parliamentary committees, but it is clear that this is an on-going issue that is not going away. Delivering parliamentary accountability is critical to the effectiveness of how we work as a democracy. The pilot scheme that is referenced in the motion must have clear metrics. What does accountability mean? How will we judge the effectiveness of scrutiny? What timescale will there be for feedback to the Parliament and for public reporting?”
“Although the report notes some overlap between them, the evidence was that “each of the existing SPCB supported bodies provides a unique and necessary contribution.” John Mason: Will the member give way? Sarah Boyack: I will not because I am very tight for time—perhaps, if I have time later, I will. The recommendations on induction and training in the next session of the Parliament are important because all the new MSPs and their staff will need to be aware of the work and remits of existing SPCB-supported bodies. Maybe we should send today’s Official Report to all our current colleagues too, because we have to get them interested in this.”