Joe Fagan
Scottish Labour · Scotland
“I outlined the range of actions that the Government has taken with partners already and I assure Parliament that I will continue to engage regularly with justice partners and members to progress any action that helps to alleviate the pressure faced by the system.”
“She will be aware that the system in England and Wales is moving to a sentencing model of three parts, in which a third of the sentence is spent in custody, a third of it involves monitoring and a third is spent at liberty. That puts into context the situation that we are looking to set out in the consultation that I have discussed.”
“I know that the cabinet secretary has made an announcement in that regard, but it seems quite small. I think that all parties would like to see a bigger investment. Neil Gray: I hear that and I understand it.”
“In my former life as the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, I often pointed to the fact that 80 per cent of the drivers of poor health are outside the control of the health service. I do not have a similar statistic to quote for the justice system, but the figure will be very similar.”
“The theme of avoidable, preventable failure demand is a common one across our public services, whether we are debating delayed discharge, the housing emergency or the stubborn gap in healthy life expectancies. There has been a chronic implementation gap—a mismatch between the ambitions of Government and the outcomes that we achieve.”
“With the prison population at its current level, that is incredibly challenging. She spoke about capacity, but we cannot just build our way out of this situation. We need to take steps around capacity, but I am also proposing consideration of how we reduce the population.”
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“I am determined to deliver a sustainable approach to the management of Scotland’s prison population and a prison estate that is safe and fit for purpose, with prevention at its heart and a clear focus on reducing offending and reoffending behaviour. That is how we serve justice and create a safer community. I therefore ask members to support us in consulting to bring about change in order to deliver a sustainable prison population, safer communities and a strong justice system.”
“We have the highest levels of custody per head in western Europe, the long-term sentence population has increased by 600 in the past two years—that is equivalent to the size of Kilmarnock prison—and there has been a 37 per cent increase in the average length of sentences in the past decade. One of the greatest drivers of the increase in the prison population has been the increased population of people who have been sentenced for sexual and violent crimes. I make no apology for that; I am pleased to see serious sentences for serious crimes. In the face of those facts, it is simply not credible to suggest that our justice system is anything other than robust in dealing with serious criminality.”
“She was also right to emphasise that we must have prisons to deal with the most serious and dangerous offenders. Fulton MacGregor has significant professional experience, as well as experience that has been gained through membership of the Criminal Justice Committee, and his speech was informed by that experience. He commented on the issue of investing in community versus custodial sentences. I readily understand that point and will, no doubt, engage with Mr MacGregor on it. Mr Simpson suggested in his speech that this Government has somehow been soft on crime. On the basis of what I have set out, I cannot understand what planet that comment comes from.”
“In my former life as the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, I often pointed to the fact that 80 per cent of the drivers of poor health are outside the control of the health service. I do not have a similar statistic to quote for the justice system, but the figure will be very similar. My portfolio and victims across society will be the greatest beneficiaries if we can move to a more preventative system, which is exactly what I am seeking to corral with colleagues in the Government; that is absolutely the focus of this Government. Michelle Campbell referred to the £169 million that has been invested in community justice, her experience working in the health service, the drivers of mental illness, the link between mental illness and the justice system and the impact that we wish to see from the Promise.”
“Its membership was comprised of a range of independent expert professionals: Martyn Evans, the former chair of the Scottish Police Authority; Catherine Dyer, chair of Community Justice Scotland; Cathy Jamieson, who is well known in this parish; Sheriff David Mackie; Dr Hannah Graham, the senior lecturer in criminology at the University of Stirling; and Lynsey Smith, the joint chair of the Social Work Scotland justice standing committee. I commend them for their work and I thank David Linden for raising the fact that their work is the genesis of what I am presenting today. We need the whole Government and the whole of the public, community and voluntary sectors to move towards prevention.”
“However, I again point to the increase in the long-term prisoner cohort, which is up by 600 people in the past two years, while the average sentence length has increased by 37 per cent. Similarly, David Linden was very thoughtful in his speech and he put the scale of our levels of incarceration into context. He also referenced the genesis of what I have set out today, which is the independent sentencing and penal policy commission.”
“That is a legacy of the previous Lord Advocate and previous justice secretaries, which has generated an increased confidence in reporting, which is absolutely fundamental. Carol Mochan’s intervention on Alyn Smith about women in custody was also very important. During my visit to HMP Stirling, which the previous justice secretary invited me on when I was the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, I saw very clearly that many of the women in the justice system are victims themselves, so we have a big job of work to do in that space. Alyn Smith also made good points about older people in jail and moving upstream into prevention. I recognise the point that Katherine Sangster made about the perception of whether sentences fit the crimes.”
“I very much welcome Yi-pei Chou Turvey’s approach and the Liberal Democrat amendment, which we will support. I absolutely want to move to a more preventative approach. I have set out in my response to Pauline McNeill where we want to go and that we want the system to be more proactive than reactive. Alyn Smith was very kind in his contribution. I thought it was a very complimentary and very thoughtful speech from the new convener of the Criminal Justice Committee. I welcome him to that role and congratulate him on his election. He remarked that recorded crime has come down since 1991. Much of the increase in the recording of sexual and violent crime—there was an exchange between Alyn Smith and Stephen Kerr on that point—is due to a significant shift in prosecution.”
“I know that the cabinet secretary has made an announcement in that regard, but it seems quite small. I think that all parties would like to see a bigger investment. Neil Gray: I hear that and I understand it. I heard very clearly the point that was made by my friend and colleague Fulton MacGregor about the comparative investment between community justice and custodial sentences. I understand that. We have increased the budget for community justice to £170 million a year, and it is almost an inevitability that, if we are expanding the use of community justice, we will need to fund the support that goes alongside that. That support needs to be iterative and considered. I believe that, if we are successful in the approach that I am setting out— a more preventive approach—it will become what Pauline McNeill is looking for.”
“I am sure that, based on his opening speech today, he will make a significant contribution to the Parliament. Pauline McNeill: Fulton MacGregor made an important point in his speech. I looked back at the Community Justice (Scotland) Act 2016 that changed how we deal with long-term prisoners, which is covered in the consultation. Fulton MacGregor said—and I agree with this—is that, in the debate on that legislation, there was a bit of a competition about who would be toughest in relation to the justice system. That is a difficult issue for politicians, and it is a big challenge for the Government. One way in which the Government could demonstrate its commitment to balancing the realities in the political scenario around justice issues is by putting serious investment into alternatives.”
“We have seen an increase of more than 600 in the number of long-term prisoners over the past two years, and we have seen an increase of 37 per cent in the average length of sentences. I disagree with those who say that we do not need any additional capacity. To be frank, I believe that we do. Maggie Chapman is right to point to the Netherlands, Estonia and other international examples and to how they have moved forward. I welcome James Adams to the chamber. I congratulate him on arriving in the Scottish Parliament and I offer, through him, my congratulations to Douglas Lumsden on his success. James Adams hails from Fraserburgh and my father is a Torry loon and has links to Aberdeenshire, so I was heartened to hear about James Adams’s family heritage and what drives him in politics.”
“With the prison population at its current level, that is incredibly challenging. She spoke about capacity, but we cannot just build our way out of this situation. We need to take steps around capacity, but I am also proposing consideration of how we reduce the population. Maggie Chapman was absolutely right to set out that crime is not out of control. Indeed, she and Fulton MacGregor pointed to the fact that recorded crime rates are on a downward trend. Howevr, incarceration is up and is higher than the European average. That speaks to the challenge that we must grapple with as well as contradicting another point that has been made today, which is that the system prioritises criminals over victims. We are incarcerating more people per head of population than most of the countries in western Europe.”
“She will be aware that the system in England and Wales is moving to a sentencing model of three parts, in which a third of the sentence is spent in custody, a third of it involves monitoring and a third is spent at liberty. That puts into context the situation that we are looking to set out in the consultation that I have discussed. I also absolutely accept her point and the point raised by Stephen Kerr about deaths in custody. That is something that I will be engaging with. I will take that away, and we will discuss it further. I absolutely recognise what Amanda Bland was saying about the escalation of the prosecution of serious sexual and organised crime. She will know from her background that that provides significant additional complexity for our prison system to manage, not least in the segregation of organised criminal gangs.”
“As I said, I found the debate incredibly constructive. Kate Campbell summed it up incredibly well when she said that we are looking for the same thing—fewer crimes, fewer victims, fewer people in prison, less crowded prisons and less money spent on incarceration. There was a significant reflection on the problem and a refreshing willingness to engage in the proposals that I have set out. I will now turn to some of the other contributions. I very much appreciated Pauline McNeill’s clarity on the challenges that we face. In the opening stages of the debate, she raised a point about public perception and the transparency of sentences. I understand that issue, and it is part of what we need to consult on.”
“I outlined the range of actions that the Government has taken with partners already and I assure Parliament that I will continue to engage regularly with justice partners and members to progress any action that helps to alleviate the pressure faced by the system. I was really pleased with—and pleasantly surprised by—the debate today: there has been a recognition of the scale of the challenge that we face. I am keen that we learn lessons from countries that have had successes in reducing their prison population. I do not ask whether we can spend millions on exporting prisoners from Scotland to Estonia; I ask how Estonia has achieved a two-thirds reduction in its prison population over the past 20 years, and what steps it has taken to achieve 50 per cent capacity in its new jails. I have listened carefully to the speeches this afternoon.”
“I very much welcome that speech from Joe Fagan. Our prison population today stands at 8,459, against a design capacity of 7,800, which speaks to the challenge that we are facing. That increases the risk of reoffending and creates a vicious circle in which the impact is felt across the criminal justice system as a whole. Again, I thank the dedicated front-line staff for their hard work. I hope that that is the level of humility that Stephen Kerr has been looking for from me. I am saying that there is a challenge, I am pointing to the challenge and I will point out the steps that I want to take to address it.”
“The theme of avoidable, preventable failure demand is a common one across our public services, whether we are debating delayed discharge, the housing emergency or the stubborn gap in healthy life expectancies. There has been a chronic implementation gap—a mismatch between the ambitions of Government and the outcomes that we achieve. That is not just my view; it is the view of Audit Scotland. The Government signals progressive intent, secures a mandate for progressive change, but fails to deliver the progressive outcomes that can transform this country. That is what has to change, and that is why this Parliament has to be different from the last. 16:20 Neil Gray: The sustained level of overcrowding in our prisons is posing an unacceptable level of risk and impacts on the ability to deliver rehabilitative work.”
“On that point, I declare an interest as a local councillor, because I want to highlight Scotland’s first alcohol and drug problem-solving court in South Lanarkshire and its promising approach to structured deferred sentencing. That involves a collaboration between Hamilton sheriff court and South Lanarkshire Council that we can build on, especially if the Scottish Government were minded to confirm its continued support for the project going forward. This time, things have to be different. On the dashboard of indicators in front of us that tell us that something is going wrong with our public services, the one for our prison population has been flashing red for far too long.”
“As Katherine Sangster said, we have to build alternatives that can command the confidence of the public and the confidence of the judiciary. Therefore, our message to the Scottish Government is that Scottish Labour is prepared to work across party lines to reduce reoffending and to improve outcomes. On that note, I welcome the Cabinet Secretary for Justice’s announcement of a consultation and his remarks on GPS tracking in relation to bail and home detention curfews. I hope that, in that spirit, he might be able to agree with Labour’s amendment today. I acknowledge Fulton MacGregor’s insightful contribution on community justice. It is not a soft- touch approach. If it is proportionate and well resourced, it is an important part of our justice system.”
“There are criminals who belong in prison—let us be clear about that—but, to build safer communities and make the system more sustainable, more action is needed on remand and more action is needed to break the cycle of reoffending. Repeat offending retraumatises victims, undermines community confidence in the justice system and costs us all. The Scottish Government estimates the total cost of reoffending to the Scottish economy to be somewhere between £3 billion and £4 billion. As Pauline McNeill set out, we simply have not done enough as a nation to strengthen our approach to rehabilitation and community justice and to break that cycle of reoffending. As the chief inspector of prisons has said, the size of the prison population is a barrier to effective rehabilitation.”
“In his foreword to the document setting out the Government’s public service reform strategy, the then Minister for Public Finance acknowledged that the vision of the Christie commission on the shift towards prevention had “not been realised to its full potential.” The Christie commission identified Scotland’s prison population, which at that time had been growing year on year, as a prime example of failure demand. Although it is true that there was a period after the Christie commission’s report when the prison population fell, it is now back at record levels. I contend that that is because we have not sufficiently addressed the underlying factors driving demand in the system. I believe that the Cabinet Secretary for Justice accepted that point in his remarks earlier.”
“She pointed out that “such failures cost money”, and said that overcrowding means that “Prisons stop being places of rehabilitation and become warehouses, holding people who may get very little time out of cell.” That is the stark reality of the invidious and all- pervading evil in our prison systems. It is an evil that we cannot ignore. I say to the Scottish Government that that evil is not new. It is unquestionably the case that the increase in convictions for serious violent and sexual offences is contributing to the growth in the prison population, but policy makers have been grappling with the size of Scotland’s prison population throughout the history of devolution. This is not year zero.”
“She said: “Overcrowding is an invidious and all-pervading evil that affects every aspect of prison life” and that it makes it “more difficult for the prison to comply with core human rights such as access to fresh air.” She said that, because of overcrowding, “Relationships between staff and prisoners can become more strained … Rehabilitation focused activity becomes more compromised” and “Transformational change opportunities are neglected, leaving more risk around the ability of prisoners to reintegrate successfully on release and stay away from crime”.”
“I congratulate James Adams on his spirited first speech. I acknowledge the candour that the Cabinet Secretary for Justice brought to the chamber in his remarks earlier, and I acknowledge the substance of the Government’s motion, which I believe sets out in stark terms the nature of the challenge that is before the country. Stephen Kerr referred to the letter that was sent by HM chief inspector of prisons. I think that that is a good starting point for us.”
“[Applause.] I ask members who are leaving the chamber to do so quietly. Nuclear Power in Scotland”
“Motion agreed to, That the Parliament, noting that the National Security (State Threats) Bill, introduced to the House of Commons on 9 June 2026, makes provision that alters the executive competence of the Scottish Ministers, agrees to give consent to such provision as made by paragraph 5 to the Schedule to the Bill. The Presiding Officer: The final question is, that motion S7M-00463, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on designation of a lead committee, be agreed to. Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Criminal Justice Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the supplementary legislative consent memorandum on the Armed Forces Bill. The Presiding Officer: Before I conclude decision time, I wish all the best to Scotland in their match against Brazil tonight.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My device did not connect. I would have voted yes. The Presiding Officer: Thank you. Your vote is recorded. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Bannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Black, Dawn (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Bonnar, Steven (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Bouse, Gary (Falkirk West) (SNP) Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con) Brown, Alan (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Campbell, Kate (Edinburgh Eastern, Musselburgh and Tranent) (SNP) Campbell, Michelle (Renfrewshire North and Cardonald) (SNP) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chou Turvey, Yi-pei (North East Scotland) (LD) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh North Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Day, Martyn (Falkirk East and Linlithgow) (SNP) Dijkstra-Downie, Sanne (Edinburgh Northern) (LD) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Kelvin and Maryhill) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fagan, Joe (South Scotland) (Lab) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Con) Gethins, Stephen (Dundee City East) (SNP) Ghani, Zen (Glasgow Cathcart and Pollok) (SNP) Gibson, Patricia (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Goodlad, Hannah Mary (Shetland Islands) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie) (SNP) Green, David (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) Griffin, Mark (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) Hagmann, Katie (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harley, Adam (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (LD) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen and Cambuslang) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hoy, Craig (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kerr, Alex (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) Kerr, Calum (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform) Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform) Kumar, Simita (Edinburgh South Western) (SNP) Langan, Jamie (South Scotland) (Reform) Linden, David (Glasgow Baillieston and Shettleston) (SNP) Lindsay, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Long, Joe (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) MacCallum, Morven-May (Highlands and Islands) (LD) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) MacKinnon, Donald (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh North Eastern and Leith) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Massey, Duncan (North East Scotland) (Reform) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McDade, Helen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Easterhouse and Springburn) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian Coast and Lammermuirs) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Melville, Lloyd (Angus South) (SNP) Middleton, Jack (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mitchell, Laura (Moray) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Offord, Malcolm (West Scotland) (Reform) Oswald, Kirsten (Eastwood) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (Fife North East) (LD) Ross, Angela (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Reform) Sangster, Katherine (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Schmulian, Kim (Glasgow) (Reform) Simpson, Graham (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Simpson, Mark (North East Scotland) (Reform) Smith, Alyn (Stirling) (SNP) Smith, David (West Scotland) (Reform) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stafford, Pauline (Bathgate) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thewliss, Alison (Glasgow Central) (SNP) Young, Jenny (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) Against MacDougall, Julie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) Abstentions Bruce, Holly (Glasgow Southside) (Green) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Duane, Iris (Glasgow) (Green) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Kinross-O’Neill, Kayleigh (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Leask, Kristopher (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Green) Manivannan, Q (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) McKee, Cara (West Scotland) (Green) Moodie, Laura (South Scotland) (Green) Nevens, Kate (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Edinburgh Central) (Green) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S7M-00461, in the name of Neil Gray, on the National Security (State Threats) Bill, is: For 102, Against 1, Abstentions 15.”
“Indeed, I met COSLA representatives yesterday to talk about housing and how we can work collectively on child poverty. Mr Fagan mentioned preventative spend, which is an important area in which the Scottish Government and local authorities can work together with third sector partners. That is public service reform in action, ensuring that we have public services that deliver better, more efficiently and more effectively, which is better for the client involved. Mr Fagan gave some examples of that work in relation to debt and welfare advice, and there are many more examples. The issue of preventative spend is why I look forward to working with Ivan McKee on the public service reform agenda, because that will deliver for our constituents.”
“My entry in the register of members’ interests shows that I am a councillor in South Lanarkshire. According to the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, for every pound spent on local authority welfare rights and money advice services, there is a financial gain of £13 to the people who those services support. Given the importance of partnership with local government and the great unrealised potential of a shift to preventative spending, does the cabinet secretary agree that a return to the core funding cuts to councils, as implied by the medium-term financial strategy, should be ruled out? Shirley-Anne Somerville: I do not recognise Mr Fagan’s description of the financial situation of local government at the moment. I recognise that we are all doing our best with the budgets that we have.”
“The first principle of any business is that it must make sure that it remains in the green, not in the red. That is exactly what we have managed to do. When it comes to public sector reform, the Government is absolutely committed to doing that. We must make sure that there are efficient, joined- up and more preventative services. The Scottish Government’s operating cost last year was just under £900 million. That is coming down year on year. Jobs are being frozen and we are making sure that there is a reduction in recruitment towards 2030. Our eye is on the ball when it comes to that. I look forward to working with Mr Fagan on more ideas for how we can further tighten our operating costs in the years to 2030.”
“Does the Government recognise those figures and can it tell us how variance in operating costs contributes to the outturn position? Does it agree that, to make the public finances more sustainable, progressive intent must lead to progressive outcomes, reactive spending must come down and preventative spending must be scaled up? The Scottish Government must work harder to make public money better serve the public interest across Scotland. Hannah Mary Goodlad: I reflect that, only yesterday, we heard from those on the Labour benches that devolution has worked. I would like to see the Parliament go further. We are playing the game of managing our public finances with both hands tied behind our back. That is no normal way to manage a country, a budget and a financial year.”
“I welcome the minister—a fellow newbie—to her position and thank her for her statement. The Auditor General said of last year’s consolidated accounts that short-term measures do not address the £4.7 billion fiscal gap and that “The Scottish Government cannot clearly demonstrate that public spending is delivering the intended outcomes”. What assurances can the Government give to the Parliament and the Auditor General at this provisional outturn stage that things will be different in the next set of consolidated accounts? Last year was not year zero for public service reform. Today, I received figures from the Scottish Parliament information centre that indicated that, accounting for inflation, the Scottish Government’s operating costs have risen by almost 40 per cent in real terms in the five years up to 2024-25.”
“It always has been and always will be the case that a strong economy is the foundation on which to build good public services, and that is especially true under the current fiscal framework. The Scottish Government recognises the fundamental importance of partnership to the delivery of the public service reform strategy, so we are asking it to understand the implications for the third sector, to work with trade unions as social partners in delivering fair work and to observe the European Charter of Local Self-Government, which is already endorsed on a cross-party basis. There is common ground—as there has been in this debate—with the Government and other parties, as well as with the cabinet secretary, whom I will refer to simply as”
“I hope that we can also agree that the workforce across our public services is an informed, experienced resource, and that empowering staff, whether they are front line or back office, is critical to developing a progressive approach to public service reform. Our amendment is not about diminishing the Government motion, but about steering a consensus over what happens next. We believe that our approach to public service reform can align with our approach to community wealth building, densifying local supply chains, fairer procurement, bringing contracts back in-house where it saves taxpayers money and recirculating local wealth. That can all contribute to fairer, more resilient local economies.”
“My entry in the register of members’ interests shows that I am a councillor in South Lanarkshire. I congratulate all those who have made their first speech in the chamber today. I will say that making a first speech is not quite as daunting as the prospect of making a second, because the second time around the Parliament can answer back. With that in mind, I thought that I might start tactfully—and, indeed, tactically—with some points of consensus. Most of us agree that a forward-thinking approach to public service reform is about emphasising the importance of place, breaking down silos to become more community focused, partnership, collaboration and prevention, and the shift towards early intervention.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service board regarding the outcome of the service delivery review that is due to be considered on 22 June. (S7O-00022)”
“At this juncture—the start of this new session, with more newly elected members of the Parliament than at any time since devolution—I challenge all of us to think of what we can achieve together if we choose to elevate our politics now, if we liberate our public services from the burdens of inequality, if we are persistent in connecting progressive intent with progressive outcomes and if we recapture the spirit of new politics and put the Scottish Parliament back to work for the people of Scotland. 15:56”
“Candidly, that is the story of Scotland post- Christie—progressive intent, regressive reality— and, too often, that is the story of the Scottish Parliament, too. The architects of devolution—the noble leaders who came before us—imagined a Parliament that would elevate public life: a new politics of public service, social justice and democratic renewal. I believe that, too often, Parliament falls short of the ideals that shaped it and mirrors what it was defined against. Too often, it has been conceited and trivial when it must be rigorous and self-aware. I welcome the steps taken by the new Presiding Officer to shake up proceedings and his tantalising promise of “devilment” in the session to come, but making this institution better serve the people who elect us is a responsibility for all of us who are elected.”
“The Government promised to eliminate delayed discharge from the NHS but, last year, people spent more than 720,000 clinically unnecessary days in hospital at a cost of £440 million. Record high numbers of people are housed in temporary accommodation while social housing starts have fallen to record lows and local government—the sphere of government that is best able to scale prevention—has lost more than £7 billion in core funding in real terms. We are stuck in a cycle that does not work. Whatever the merits of the Government’s motion, it does not point to a tax and spend framework that breaks the cycle. Social investment, funded fairly and realistically, is essential if a Scottish model of public service reform is to be viable.”
“It said that there had to be a system-wide shift towards preventative spending—a shift from addressing the consequences of inequality to tackling its causes. The failure to implement a progressive reform agenda over a sustained period is the underlying reason why the Scottish Government faces such a wide fiscal gap. There is too much reactive spending because there was too little investment in prevention. In 2008, a ministerial task force committed the Government to narrowing the gap in healthy life expectancy between the most deprived and least deprived people. However, the gap has not reduced—it has grown. Eighteen years ago, the Government set out to reduce the prison population, but today it is at a record high.”
“I am not the first South Lanarkshire Council leader to be elected to the Parliament. I share that privilege with the late Tom McCabe, the first ever MSP elected in 1999. Then, as now, South Lanarkshire was at the forefront of public service reform. The council was a pioneer in community planning. Today, it is working with Public Health Scotland as one of three Marmot place pilots, addressing the social determinants of ill health with the support of the Institute of Health Equity and the inspiring Professor Michael Marmot. That work tells us that it is not only demographic change that drives the service demand but disadvantage, health inequalities and vulnerabilities in our society that we have collectively failed to prevent. That was the Christie commission’s central message 15 years ago.”
“I congratulate the Presiding Officers on their election and the new front-bench members on their appointment. My entry in the register of members’ interests will show that I am a councillor with South Lanarkshire Council. To be elected to the Parliament is a special privilege and I am immensely grateful to all the people who voted across the vast and varied region of South Scotland, from coast to coast, through market towns and mining villages, to my home in East Kilbride. Until last week, I was the leader of South Lanarkshire Council, and, as someone who led a public service speaking in a debate that is about tax for public services, I say that public services are nothing without public servants. I have been fortunate to work with some of the best in the country.”
“I, Joe Fagan, do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm, that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles, his heirs and successors, according to law.”