Malcolm Offord
Reform UK · Scotland
“Furthermore, will he ensure that information materials that are published by activist organisations and are contrary to the letter and spirit of Lady Ross’s ruling are withdrawn from all public organisations and institutions and that cessation of their production and distribution becomes a condition of any further public funding for those…”
“Does the First Minister welcome the recent landmark legal ruling by Lady Ross on the case brought by that excellent organisation For Women Scotland? Will he ensure that it is implemented in full, in letter and in spirit as soon as possible?”
“Finally, as well as a wealthy Scotland, we want a healthy Scotland—a society where our local communities feel valued and prioritised; where we will always welcome newcomers, so long as they contribute economically, respect our values and do not jump the queue for public services; and where a kinder Scotland is not defined by allowing men…”
“Instead, our vision of a prosperous Scotland is one where our citizens are incentivised to work, by allowing them to keep more of their own money through lower taxes; where welfare will always be available to those in need, but we put maximum effort into helping half a million Scots back into the workplace to allow them dignity and pride…”
“If we truly want a growing economy to provide prosperity for everyone, which is the only sustainable way to combat rising costs of living, we need to get back to properly educating our young people.”
“That is mainly because the SNP still cannot answer basic questions on currency, pensions, borders and defence, and how on earth Scotland would ever join the European Union with a structural annual deficit of £30 billion versus a Maastricht maximum requirement of £10 billion.”
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“Furthermore, will he ensure that information materials that are published by activist organisations and are contrary to the letter and spirit of Lady Ross’s ruling are withdrawn from all public organisations and institutions and that cessation of their production and distribution becomes a condition of any further public funding for those activist groups? Finally, does he share my relief that Isla Bryson—who is apparently known in prison as Isla Man—will now be detained in a male jail and, upon release, should not be allowed access to women’s toilets, whether here in Holyrood or anywhere in Scotland?”
“Does the First Minister welcome the recent landmark legal ruling by Lady Ross on the case brought by that excellent organisation For Women Scotland? Will he ensure that it is implemented in full, in letter and in spirit as soon as possible? Will he further ensure that the principles of that ruling are rolled out across the entire public sector, including the national health service, immediately, which would avoid the need for any further waste of taxpayers’ money on defending the indefensible in court?”
“I move, That the Parliament believes that strong and sustained economic growth is the foundation of a successful nation, where everyone can feel hope that effort will be rewarded, with opportunities and high-quality services for all; recognises that the Scottish Government’s policy choices are constraining economic growth, including Scotland becoming the highest-taxed part of the UK, which risks disincentivising work and investment and undermining confidence in the economy; further recognises that high quality jobs and opportunities provide more than just tax for the Government, as the loss of purpose experienced through unemployment or not being able to use their skills in work is a major factor behind the reported rising mental health crisis; further recognises that economic growth depends on a diverse range of pathways into employment, not solely through university, and calls for greater emphasis on apprenticeships that provide real skills and faster entry into the workforce, alongside a broader subject offer in schools, including targeted action to be directed at core literacy due to one in four primary school aged children still not reaching expected levels of literacy; acknowledges that net zero will come to describe the level of economic growth should current environmental policy continue on its current trajectory; considers that economic growth also relies on secure, affordable and reliable energy, and that increasing North Sea production is essential for price stability and security of supply as part of a broad, market-driven energy mix; believes that too many net zero policies such as low emission zones are a regressive tax for those on lower incomes, which only further harms individual opportunities and economic growth; further believes that sustainable economic growth requires public policy that commands broad confidence and is grounded in evidence, and notes concerns that recent policy approaches, including on gender, have alienated a majority of people, and failed some of those they were intended to benefit; considers that Lady Ross’s landmark legal ruling on transgender prison guidance is a condemnation of the deviation from evidence backed policy and must be swiftly complied with; recognises that population policy and migration must support economic sustainability and public services, and calls, therefore, for the use of devolved powers to reduce incentives for illegal migration, such as through not allowing non-citizens access to social housing or Scottish welfare, and to ensure that limited public resources are focused on supporting economic participation and long-term growth.”
“The chamber should be chastened by the fact that, on May 7, 2 million Scots chose not to vote— a record low turnout, which proves that this chamber has lost its relevance to the Scottish people. When we come back in September, I ask that we have no more groupthink, please. Why? It is because, to paraphrase what General Patton once said, when everyone is thinking the same thing, no one is thinking. Reform Scotland is so ambitious for Scotland, and the status quo will not cut it. Our 17 MSPs will do the thinking, even if other members do not, and that is why Scotland needs Reform.”
“Finally, as well as a wealthy Scotland, we want a healthy Scotland—a society where our local communities feel valued and prioritised; where we will always welcome newcomers, so long as they contribute economically, respect our values and do not jump the queue for public services; and where a kinder Scotland is not defined by allowing men into women’s spaces, and our children are allowed to grow up as normal girls and boys. Those are the topics and policies that Reform Scotland’s 17 newly elected MSPs have debated, in the first six weeks of the new session of Parliament, without fear or favour, but with knowledge, common sense and passion. Our group has real-life experience as well as significant technical expertise in all areas of policy, and we will be a strong voice for the silent majority.”
“If we truly want a growing economy to provide prosperity for everyone, which is the only sustainable way to combat rising costs of living, we need to get back to properly educating our young people. In the past 20 years, the SNP has presided over the collapse of our once gold-standard education from outstanding to average, but it does not call a debate on that subject—how cowardly. Reform Scotland would make education an urgent priority, to ensure that our young people can get real jobs in the real economy, with technical jobs that will not be taken away by artificial intelligence, for which skills and training are provided through tertiary colleges and apprenticeships, and universities that are focused on degree courses that will lead to high-value employment.”
“Meanwhile, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has quietly dropped those two emotive words from its lexicon because of the science. Reform Scotland is clear that ideological net zero policies are causing disproportionate harm to the United Kingdom, given that the UK accounts for less than 1 per cent of global emissions, and that the fastest way to get our energy prices down is to pump our own North Sea gas onshore for domestic use only. There will be a complementary role for renewables, but only if they are commercially viable instead of relying on 50 years of subsidies, which has been the biggest transfer of money, from poor people to rich people, since Robin Hood.”
“Instead, our vision of a prosperous Scotland is one where our citizens are incentivised to work, by allowing them to keep more of their own money through lower taxes; where welfare will always be available to those in need, but we put maximum effort into helping half a million Scots back into the workplace to allow them dignity and pride and the means to look after their families; and where we reduce state spending by cutting duplication and waste. We know that, after excessive taxation, the second reason that is causing low growth in our economy is that we have the most expensive energy in the developed world. However, in yesterday’s debate on energy, this place was literally an echo chamber, with all parties regurgitating the same old tropes of climate crisis and climate emergency.”
“Meanwhile, the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland has confirmed that Scottish taxes are too high and the six bands act as a barrier to productivity, the Scottish Fiscal Commission has warned of a £5 billion black hole because welfare spending is out of control and the new Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform has stated that his plans do not envisage any cuts. Reform Scotland rejects that la-la land.”
“We then heard several statements on the economy, where the SNP got into competition with the Greens about how many public services can be given away for free, as if that is the correct basis to judge any strong economy. Scots are too canny to be fooled by that. Nothing is for free. If it is not paid for by you, it is paid for by somebody else. With 1 per cent of Scots already paying 30 per cent of income tax and 10 per cent paying 50 per cent, it is pretty clear that we need more high earners to pay for all the freebies, so why on earth impose wealth taxes that drive away the highest earners? It is bonkers.”
“That is mainly because the SNP still cannot answer basic questions on currency, pensions, borders and defence, and how on earth Scotland would ever join the European Union with a structural annual deficit of £30 billion versus a Maastricht maximum requirement of £10 billion. If the SNP were serious about independence, it would have spent the past 12 years since the independence referendum in 2014 preparing Scotland for separation, so that debate was purely performative. Reform Scotland is firmly of the view that, unless and until the SNP is able to answer the big questions of separation, the issue should be put firmly on the back burner and all our focus should be on making Scotland the most prosperous part of the UK.”
“We have had six weeks of debates on a variety of topics on which the Scottish National Party, as the largest party in the chamber, has set out its vision for Scotland for the next five years. The purpose of this debate is to state clearly that Reform Scotland does not share the SNP’s vision of mediocrity and to make clear that Reform Scotland is far more ambitious for Scotland than has been set out by the SNP in the past six weeks. The first debate in the new session of Parliament was a very half-hearted attempt by the SNP to put independence back on the table, even though the constitution is a matter that is reserved to Westminster and despite the fact that there is no appetite for separation in Scotland.”
“So, I say, “Yes please,” to having more tax powers in”
“Hannah Mary Goodlad: We have a commitment to review the income tax bands within this session of Parliament and I know that we are committed to looking at simplifying the six bands that we have. Regarding tax revenue, Scotland raises an extra £1.8 billion because of the progressive approach that we have taken. There is a wider point, and I say again that we are playing the game with two hands tied behind our back. I would like more tax-raising powers to be devolved to Scotland. North-west of the islands that I come from, the tiny Faroe Islands has a population of 50,000. Its economy is based only on fish and aquaculture—it does not have energy, oil, whisky or tourism as we do—but the people there are thriving because they take decisions where they matter and they live with those decisions.”
“Will the minister review the complicated and burdensome six-band income tax regime in Scotland, in light of the fact that the Scottish Fiscal Commission says that the system is collecting less money than was forecast and collected £850 million less last year? Forecasting for next year is running at a lower rate and we are raising less money per capita than the UK. I draw the minister’s attention to a recent report by the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland, which said that a perhaps unintended consequence of the regime is that it is hurting productivity. If the idea is to collect more tax revenue, that should be the most important thing, so, if the regime is actually collecting less tax revenue, can we please review it?”
“Surely the First Minister must agree that it is unfair for local Scots on the long waiting list for permanent accommodation to be shunted to the back of the queue in order to instead give temporary accommodation to new arrivals. Does the First Minister not recognise that that is fundamentally a matter of fairness and that Scottish hospitality is being abused by queue jumping?”
“I begin by congratulating Steve Clarke and the Scotland men’s team on our great victory against Haiti and I wish them all the best against Morocco. Last week, I asked the First Minister about a major problem with social housing in Scotland—a loophole, whereby thousands of new arrivals from outside Scotland are able to present as homeless and must be found temporary accommodation by councils, which are then forced to place them ahead of local Scots who are already on the waiting list for permanent accommodation. In his answer last week, the First Minister did not seem to recognise that there is any loophole at all. However, the fact remains that there has been a surge in demand for temporary accommodation in Scotland and, in Glasgow alone, 64 per cent of those in temporary accommodation came to the United Kingdom as asylum seekers.”
“I move amendment S7M-00309.4, to leave out from “welcomes” to end and insert: “believes that public money is limited, whereas demand is infinite; further believes that meaningful reform starts in its chamber by using the time available to reach meaningful and defined decisions; believes that using parliamentary time to debate a motion that lacks any substantive action, and therefore leads to no definitive change, undermines the Parliament’s expressed desire for reform; recognises that emphasis on public service provision should be focused on outcomes and not inputs; believes that the recipients of public services are the most important people in this process and must be the focus of the Parliament’s attention; looks forward to co-operation with staff and legitimate representative groups to raise standards and improve provision, and calls on the Scottish Government to publish a programme of concrete action.” 15:40”
“We need more people in the chamber who have worked in business. He will know that any business can save 5 per cent of its costs without directly impacting its top line: 5 per cent of £72 billion is £3.5 billion. That would go a long way to fixing his budget, and he would be commended by the Scottish people for that.”
“In particular, we need to do a lot more to help people who have fallen out of the way of work to get back into work. I want to hear a lot more about the effort that we put into helping our colleagues and fellow citizens back into work. The issue with welfare is that, over the past 10 years, the choices made by the SNP Government—particularly under Nicola Sturgeon, when she created a welfare economy—meant that 15 per cent, which was the biggest spend, was allocated to welfare, versus 3 per cent to education. The welfare budget is out of control. We are heading towards having a million Scots of working age who are not working, which is a national disaster for us all. That is the third area to which I would point Ivan McKee. At the end of the day, the cabinet secretary has been in business, which is a good thing.”
“Secondly, we know that energy is reserved to Westminster, so why does the Scottish Government spend £5 billion on net zero? Again, we cannot find that line. We cannot push a button in the public accounts of Scotland and get that number to spit out. We have to do a lot of work and go through many places, but we find that, in the current 2026-27 financial year, the Scottish budget commits more than £5 billion, which is described as record investment, to climate action and net zero measures. In the context of the £72 billion budget, that is approaching 8 per cent. I direct the cabinet secretary to that area as well. The third area to which I would direct him is welfare. We all in the chamber believe in the welfare state to help people, as a safety net, as they move through life.”
“To come to Willie Rennie’s point, I saw that at first hand when I was a minister in the Department for Business and Trade and I was given the brief of trying to deal with the compensation for Post Office workers. What I saw over the past 20 years, when I unravelled it, was a complete disconnect in the lines of authority between ministers and an arm’s- length body that behaved on its own account and did its own thing. The result was that the postmistresses and masters could not get accountability. There was no point in firing the minister, Ed Davey, because he was not in control of it in the first place. Quite apart from the money, can we please bring services back into our control under Ivan McKee, so that he can see the value for money, and so that when he pulls a lever, he can see where the money comes from?”
“That is how any department should be running; it should be running to maximise its efficiency on any budget. That should not be considered groundbreaking or revolutionary. I encourage the cabinet secretary to start looking immediately at where we are wasting money, where there is duplication of money and where we are not getting value for money. I will give three quick examples of that. As referred to by Michael Marra, we have the 132 quangos, which are spending £6 billion. We can talk about the money all day long, but what is interesting is the democratic deficit in how the country is run, with ministers not being able to control spending because it is at arm’s length.”
“There has not been a shortage of money but a shortage of value for money for the taxpayer. Ivan McKee can intervene on that point. Ivan McKee: The New Zealand example is instructive. The big difference is that, as a country of 5 million people, New Zealand is a normal independent country. It does not have many tens of billions of notional spend allocated to its accounts that are actually spent in Whitehall. Malcolm Offord: Of course, the response to that is that Scotland spends £117 billion but raises £87 billion in taxes, so there is a £30 billion structural deficit that is paid for by the UK Treasury. We can take that comparison either way. I suggest to the cabinet secretary that what he has outlined on artificial intelligence, digital improvement and so on should be considered the ordinary course of business.”
“Malcolm Offord: I will be delighted to cover that, because there are some insights that I was able to glean when I was a minister in the UK Government. Those are part of the reason why I left the Conservative Party, so I will come to that issue directly. The £117 billion spent in Scotland is 55 per cent of GDP. In the UK, total spending is 44 per cent, going to 45 per cent, of GDP, so Scotland is spending considerably more per capita than England. The exam question is, are we getting better public services? Are our schools better? Are our hospitals better? Are our roads better? Is our policing better? New Zealand, which has the same population as Scotland—5.5 million people—spends 42 per cent of GDP versus our 55 per cent, yet its GDP per capita is 10 per cent higher. That tells me that this is not about money.”
“In 1999, that figure was £35 billion, which means that, over 25 years, we have had compound annual growth in spending of 5 per cent. By any measure, that cannot be described as austerity. It is year-on-year growth of 5 per cent— in effect, organic growth—in spend in Scotland. The issue is not the amount of money but how we spend that money and what choices are being made for that £117 billion, and, in particular, the £72 billion spent here in Holyrood. It is worth making some comparisons. Willie Rennie: What Malcom Offord says is interesting. From his extensive experience as a Conservative minister in the UK Government, what can he teach members about reform of public services across the UK, particularly in his portfolio?”
“I congratulate Ivan McKee on his appointment. His role could be the most interesting in the Parliament in the next five years; if he delivers on the targets and beyond, he could make a significant contribution to the welfare of Scotland. Public sector reform is the subject of the debate. The clue is in the name—Reform UK absolutely believes in reform in every area of public life. We would start by looking at the headline numbers that have been running in Scotland since devolution began. We have just had the 25th anniversary of devolution, which is always a good time to review what has happened—the good, the bad and the ugly. The total spending for Scotland across Westminster and Holyrood in 2025 was £117 billion. Of that, £72 billion was spent on Holyrood, which controls 60 per cent of the total budget for Scotland.”
“Thousands of the immigrants who arrive illegally in the United Kingdom come, when they are granted leave to remain, specifically to Scotland and present as homeless, because local authorities here have less discretion than those in England have about how they allocate accommodation. As a result, councils across Scotland are being forced to indefinitely pause the allocation of permanent accommodation to local Scots who have been on social housing waiting lists—in some cases, for years—in order to provide temporary accommodation to the new arrivals instead. My question for the First Minister is whether he will now restore to Scottish local authorities the powers to put local Scots first.”
“I start by adding my best wishes and sending the best of luck to the Scotland team in America. Let us hope that they get to the last 16 for the first time since 1974. At First Minister’s question time, Reform Scotland will continue to focus on the issues that matter most to voters in Scotland, which are that energy costs are too high, taxes are too high and immigration is too high. Therefore, at this, my third FMQs, I wish to focus on immigration. [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: I remind you that immigration is a reserved matter and does not come under the First Minister’s remit. Malcolm Offord: There is a specific Scottish matter that I want to raise in relation to immigration, which I will explain now.”
“In Scotland, we have 750,000 people of working age who are not in meaningful employment, and that figure is forecast to increase to 1 million in the next decade. That is out of a population of 5.5 million. Meanwhile, we are short of nurses, care workers, welders and chefs; yet, in her first speech in this chamber yesterday, the new minister Alison Thewliss declared, in a halo of self-righteousness, that those jobs could be done only by immigrants. Is Alison Thewliss really ready to write off the talent and ambition of our own workers so easily?”
“That is no wonder after the country reacted in horror to the iniquity of the two-tier policing that we saw in Southampton this week. However, for me, the most significant contribution has come from Alan Milburn, the former health secretary, who stated that too much welfare is actually destroying lives. Wow. How right he is that the welfare state, which was set up to be a safety net, has now become a lifestyle choice. It is damaging the life prospects of our less productive citizens, especially our young people. Let me again state the bleeding obvious: work should always pay more than welfare, and the best form of welfare is a good job. Craig Hoy: Will the member take an intervention? Malcolm Offord: No. I am going to crack on for now.”
“Yet, some progressive voices are pushing back on all that dogma. How ironic that it is the founding members of the new Labour project, the Blairites— the very champions of the progressive new society—who are the forerunners now pushing back. Tony Blair has written his 4,000-word essay. His central message is that, if we want a fairer society, we need to create jobs and wealth and not only provide welfare. His first clarion call is to abandon net zero and drill, Mili, drill, because no country can build prosperity for its citizens without access to affordable energy. Meanwhile, this week, former Home Secretary Jack Straw has come out to challenge DEI policies and the police, saying that the anti-racism guidelines have gone “too far”.”
“In this world, “nothing can be said to be certain except death and taxes.” We, at Reform Scotland, do not disagree with Benjamin Franklin’s premise, but we certainly believe that we have a duty to minimise the impact of both for as long as possible. It is the progressive left that loves taxes, just as it loves net zero, diversity, equity and inclusion, immigration and welfare. I salute Pat McFadden for his honesty when he said that Labour MPs are only really interested in finding new ways to raise taxes to pay out more in benefits. I am afraid to state the bleeding obvious, but the SNP shares that doctrine on steroids. Sure enough, three weeks into the new parliamentary session, it is already rolling the pitch to introduce new taxes on private jets and big houses—how predictable.”
“The internationally respected Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland has just stated that Scotland’s income tax is overly complex and is making our economy less competitive. That mirrors Reform Scotland’s policy position as set out in our recent manifesto. Will the First Minister now graciously accept that we have won the argument on tax?”
“Amendment disagreed to.\ The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S7M-00228.2, in the name of Maggie Chapman, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00228, in the name of Angela Constance, on investing, protecting and renewing Scotland’s NHS, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be division. The vote is closed.”
“For Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Bannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD) Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chou Turvey, Yi-pei (North East Scotland) (LD) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh North Western) (LD) Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Dijkstra-Downie, Sanne (Edinburgh Northern) (LD) Dunlop, Duncan (South Scotland) (LD) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fagan, Joe (South Scotland) (Lab) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Con) Green, David (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) Griffin, Mark (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harley, Adam (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (LD) Hoy, Craig (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform) Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform) Langan, Jamie (South Scotland) (Reform) Lindsay, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Long, Joe (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacCallum, Morven-May (Highlands and Islands) (LD) MacDougall, Julie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) MacKinnon, Donald (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Massey, Duncan (North East Scotland) (Reform) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McDade, Helen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Offord, Malcolm (West Scotland) (Reform) Rennie, Willie (Fife North East) (LD) Ross, Angela (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Reform) Sangster, Katherine (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Simpson, Mark (North East Scotland) (Reform) Smith, David (West Scotland) (Reform) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Young, Jenny (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP) Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North) (SNP) Black, Dawn (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Bonnar, Steven (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Bouse, Gary (Falkirk West) (SNP) Brown, Alan (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Campbell, Kate (Edinburgh Eastern, Musselburgh and Tranent) (SNP) Campbell, Michelle (Renfrewshire North and Cardonald) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Day, Martyn (Falkirk East and Linlithgow) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Kelvin and Maryhill) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Flynn, Stephen (Aberdeen Deeside and North Kincardine) (SNP) Gethins, Stephen (Dundee City East) (SNP) Ghani, Zen (Glasgow Cathcart and Pollok) (SNP) Gibson, Patricia (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Goodlad, Hannah Mary (Shetland Islands) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie) (SNP) Hagmann, Katie (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen and Cambuslang) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Kerr, Alex (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) Kerr, Calum (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Kumar, Simita (Edinburgh South Western) (SNP) Linden, David (Glasgow Baillieston and Shettleston) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh North Eastern and Leith) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Easterhouse and Springburn) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian Coast and Lammermuirs) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Melville, Lloyd (Angus South) (SNP) Middleton, Jack (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mitchell, Laura (Moray) (SNP) Oswald, Kirsten (Eastwood) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Smith, Alyn (Stirling) (SNP) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stafford, Pauline (Bathgate) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thewliss, Alison (Glasgow Central) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Abstentions Bruce, Holly (Glasgow Southside) (Green) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Duane, Iris (Glasgow) (Green) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Kinross-O’Neill, Kayleigh (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Leask, Kristopher (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Green) Manivannan, Q (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) McKee, Cara (West Scotland) (Green) Moodie, Laura (South Scotland) (Green) Nevens, Kate (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Edinburgh Central) (Green) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S7M-00228.4, in the name of Jackie Baillie, is: For 54, Against 55, Abstentions 15.”
“Amendment disagreed to. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S7M-00228.4, in the name of Jackie Baillie, which seeks to amend motion S7M- 00228, in the name of Angela Constance, on investing, protecting and renewing Scotland’s NHS, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer, I could not access the voting app. I would have voted for the motion. The Presiding Officer: Your vote has been recorded. For Bannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform) Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform) Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform) Langan, Jamie (South Scotland) (Reform) Lindsay, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDougall, Julie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) Massey, Duncan (North East Scotland) (Reform) McDade, Helen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) Offord, Malcolm (West Scotland) (Reform) Ross, Angela (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Reform) Simpson, Graham (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Simpson, Mark (North East Scotland) (Reform) Smith, David (West Scotland) (Reform) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Black, Dawn (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Bonnar, Steven (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Bouse, Gary (Falkirk West) (SNP) Brown, Alan (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Bruce, Holly (Glasgow Southside) (Green) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Campbell, Kate (Edinburgh Eastern, Musselburgh and Tranent) (SNP) Campbell, Michelle (Renfrewshire North and Cardonald) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Chou Turvey, Yi-pei (North East Scotland) (LD) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh North Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Day, Martyn (Falkirk East and Linlithgow) (SNP) Dijkstra-Downie, Sanne (Edinburgh Northern) (LD) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Kelvin and Maryhill) (SNP) Duane, Iris (Glasgow) (Green) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Dunlop, Duncan (South Scotland) (LD) Fagan, Joe (South Scotland) (Lab) Flynn, Stephen (Aberdeen Deeside and North Kincardine) (SNP) Gethins, Stephen (Dundee City East) (SNP) Ghani, Zen (Glasgow Cathcart and Pollok) (SNP) Gibson, Patricia (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Goodlad, Hannah Mary (Shetland Islands) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie) (SNP) Green, David (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) Hagmann, Katie (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Harley, Adam (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (LD) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen and Cambuslang) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kerr, Alex (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) Kerr, Calum (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Kinross-O’Neill, Kayleigh (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Kumar, Simita (Edinburgh South Western) (SNP) Leask, Kristopher (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Linden, David (Glasgow Baillieston and Shettleston) (SNP) Long, Joe (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) MacCallum, Morven-May (Highlands and Islands) (LD) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Green) MacKinnon, Donald (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh North Eastern and Leith) (SNP) Manivannan, Q (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Cara (West Scotland) (Green) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Easterhouse and Springburn) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian Coast and Lammermuirs) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Melville, Lloyd (Angus South) (SNP) Merrick, Colm (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Middleton, Jack (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mitchell, Laura (Moray) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Moodie, Laura (South Scotland) (Green) Nevens, Kate (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Oswald, Kirsten (Eastwood) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (Fife North East) (LD) Roddick, Emma (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Sangster, Katherine (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Smith, Alyn (Stirling) (SNP) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stafford, Pauline (Bathgate) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thewliss, Alison (Glasgow Central) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Young, Jenny (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S7M-00228.1, in the name of Helen McDade, is: For 27, Against 98, Abstentions 0.”
“Writing net zero into law in 70 minutes in a Commons debate with no vote, and imposing the energy profits levy, which the last budget from Jeremy Hunt maintained, demonstrates that the Conservative Party cannot be trusted on energy, to be frank. The impact of net zero policies is that, as Mr Massey discussed, we have had terrible deindustrialisation in Scotland, which has blighted our communities and towns.”
“I welcome Mr Gethins to his place on the front bench. It is nice to see another refugee from Westminster. We can all agree that we have got ourselves in a mess on energy. My colleague Duncan Massey gave an eloquent description of that. We have the highest energy prices in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, with less than 1 per cent of global emissions. Net zero was conceived by Labour in 2008 and has been doubled down on by Ed Miliband since 2024, but the real damage was done to us by the Conservative Party. We had 14 years of mismanagement of the energy system, which is one of the two main reasons why I left the Conservative Party.”
“Today, we are importing 70 per cent of our gas from Norwegian gas fields in the North Sea, over the fence from our own gas fields that we are shutting down. Even the Norwegian energy minister thinks that that is daft. Will the First Minister state categorically that the Scottish Government will support the licensing of our own North Sea gas?”
“The question is, what is the SNP’s position? It has become increasingly clear that the SNP’s position on independence is that it does not actually want it. If it did, it would have spent the past 12 years actually preparing Scotland to become independent. It would have spent the past 12 years answering the questions that it could not answer in 2014, such as what our currency would be, how to borrow money without a credit card— that is pretty basic—and how to join the EU when its members are allowed only a 4 per cent deficit and Scotland has a 12 per cent deficit.”
“A hundred years ago, speaking in the House of Commons in 1932, John Buchan said that every Scot “should be a Scottish Nationalist.” He went on to say: “If it could be proved that a separate Scottish Parliament were desirable, that is to say that the merits were greater than the disadvantages and dangers”, Scots “should support it.”—[Official Report, House of Commons, 24 November 1932; Vol 272, c 261.] My view is that John Buchan was not advocating Scottish independence, as we are discussing today, but was a unionist nationalist. That is how I would align myself—strongly Scottish in identity and culture, but committed to the United Kingdom, which is the best place for us to build our prosperity. He argued for preserving Scotland’s national character within the union rather than dissolving the union. That is my position.”
“In this chamber, he promised the smack of firm opposition, so why is there no Reform amendment to the woeful SNP motion? Malcolm Offord: The answer to that is that we do not believe that we should be debating this matter. Craig Hoy: You are! Malcolm Offord: We do not believe— Craig Hoy: Vote Reform to sit it out. Malcolm Offord: Can I continue? The constitution is a matter reserved to Westminster. We should not even be discussing it today, hence there is no Reform amendment— [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Okay—members have made their point. Malcolm Offord: The Tories like to call me some sort of closet nationalist—I accept that—and they say that Reform UK has members in it who previously supported independence. To clarify, I would align myself with John Buchan, who was a Conservative MP.”
“Malcolm Offord: I will address that in my next point—I will give the exact numbers on that, because it is a key point that we will come to in the discussion. Even in 2016, after the EU Brexit vote, the leader of the Tories, Ruth Davidson, said that it was unconstitutional to say that there will never, ever be another referendum. We cannot sit in this chamber and say that there will never ever be another referendum, but we can say that, right now, there is no appetite from the Scottish people to have such a thing. We should be saying to ourselves that, for at least 10 years, we should not be talking about this, because this Parliament should focus right now on devolved matters in order to make Scotland the most successful part of the UK. Craig Hoy: I thank Lord Offord for giving way.”
“That is why 2 million Scots did not vote. There is no point, because nothing changes. All we get is managed decline and mid-table mediocrity—they are scunnered by the SNP. Things are never its fault—it is always the victim. Let us turn to the motion on indyref 2. The First Minister asked a question: is the UK a voluntary union? There has never been any doubt that it is a voluntary union. Margaret Thatcher made it very clear to Alex Salmond that the UK was a voluntary union; she said to him that she did not want the UK to break up, but that if he delivered a democratic mandate from the Scottish people to leave the UK, they could leave the UK. The Tories have got themselves in a mess on this, because all they ever say is no—it is always no—to another referendum. Neil Gray: What is the democratic mandate?”
“So, why does the SNP indulge itself by continually debating matters that are reserved to Westminster? We all know why. It is a deflection strategy, because the SNP does not want to focus on the track record of what it has done in the day job: the fact that our economy is anaemic and promotes welfare over work; the fact that our taxes are too high and provide a disincentive to productivity; the fact that our planning is so bad that small and medium-sized enterprises are shutting down; the fact that 93 per cent of Scots say that healthcare needs reform; and the fact that, in education, our schools have gone from outstanding to average, and the attainment gap is widening; the fact that in jobs and skills, we have three quarters of a million adult Scots not working, yet we bring in 300 welders from the Philippines to work in our shipyards; and the fact that community cohesion is breaking down in our most vulnerable communities.”
“So, here we go again—welcome back to groundhog day. Doesn’t the SNP just love debating matters that are reserved to Westminster instead of doing the day job? Is it any wonder that 2 million Scots did not vote— Members: We cannot hear—turn the microphone round. Malcolm Offord: I will start again. Is it any wonder that 2 million Scots did not vote in the election on 7 May? Holyrood controls 60 per cent of the spending in Scotland. Moreover, with control over devolved matters in this chamber, it controls 80 per cent of daily life in Scotland: our schools, hospitals, roads, policing and communities. That is what hard- working Scots want this Parliament to focus on— how to build prosperity for families and communities, not endless debates on the neverendum question.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I had no connection. I would have voted yes. The Presiding Officer: Your vote will be recorded.”
“How can Scotland be led by a First Minister from the SNP whose share of the vote fell by another 10 per cent? We should consider the decline in votes for the separatist parties, combined: from 1.6 million in 2014 to 1.3 million in 2021 and to 1 million this year. How can that ever be considered a mandate for separation? Furthermore, how could Scotland be led by a First Minister from Scottish Labour, whose steady decline can be traced from 56 MSPs in 1999 to 17 today, and whose vote share has halved from 32 per cent to 16 per cent? No—Scotland deserves a First Minister who wishes to build opportunity and prosperity for every Scot. The only party in the chamber with that agenda is Reform UK. 14:20”