← LEADERSHIP TERMINAL

UK PARLIAMENT · FORMER

Liz Smith

Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party · Scotland

IN THEIR OWN WORDS

For many years, I have come to this debate conflicted, well understanding several of the key points raised by those who support assisted dying, partly based on my own family experience, but also understanding the key points in the case against.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-03-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

As a result, I worry about the implications in relation to coercive situations within families, who may put pressure on vulnerable relatives to end their lives, perhaps for financial reasons in increasingly difficult fiscal situations or for reasons that suit their circumstances rather than those of the patient.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-03-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

I wish to say what I said at the start of my stage 1 speech: “Nobody could possibly doubt the far-reaching implications of the most appalling human tragedy at Grenfell tower in 2017, nor the importance of ensuring that nothing like that can ever happen again.” It is absolutely right that measures are put in place to improve building stand…

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-03-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

As the minister knows from stage 2, I have concerns about whether people involved in the conversion of historic buildings will face specific unintended consequences as a result of the imposition of the building safety levy, mainly because projects of that nature are not usually speculative and they tend to be a more expensive way of produ…

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-03-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

That must include the medical profession’s commitment to saving lives. I continue to worry about a situation whereby we hand ultimate power to doctors, with the possibility that voluntary action could lead to involuntary action.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-03-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

It is on occasions such as these, when the matter that is under consideration is so challenged by complex ethical, moral, legal and practical questions, that I have come to know the Scottish Parliament at its best. We saw that last week and I believe that we are seeing it again this evening.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-03-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

The complete record

Every one of 413 lines we hold for Liz Smith, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 7 of 9.

  1. The debate so far has shown that it is important to put the spring statement into some context, particularly with regard to the considerable challenges that the chancellor faces—those that are external rather than self-imposed. They include the considerable uncertainty in the international markets as a result of the very belligerent, protectionist policies that the cabinet secretary spoke about in her statement, which are very much across our newspapers this morning. They make for very grim reading—we should be in no doubt about that. Likewise, there is the considerable uncertainty about US defence policies, which means that we have to prioritise increases in the defence budget, and there are the further increases in world energy prices. The chancellor is right to say that “the world has changed”, but that is only half the story.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-02 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  2. Obviously, those are matters over which the Scottish Parliament and Government have no legislative power, but I assure the member that I am not slow in raising them with energy companies and with the UK Government, because we must get a solution to the issue before

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-01 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  3. I return to the rural issues that were discussed in earlier questions. What action is the Scottish Government taking to ensure that the roll-out of smart meters increases? Frankly, in rural areas, it is pretty appalling. Alasdair Allan: Liz Smith has my sympathy on that point. The Scottish Government is more than disappointed about that, not just because of the slow roll-out in some areas of smart meters, but in relation to radio teleswitch service—RTS—meters. There are more than 140,000 of those in Scotland, as she will be aware, yet we have little idea how they will operate after the proposed ending of the signal to them in June.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-01 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  4. To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the recent NASUWT survey, which recorded that 49 per cent of female teachers in Scotland had reported physical abuse or violence in the past 12 months. (S6T-02457)

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-01 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  5. I do not need to recount to members the current problems in our schools that relate to mental health and anxiety, attendance, attainment and the increasing need for provision for additional support needs, as identified by recent statistics. The evidence that has been provided to the Education, Children and Young People Committee was overwhelmingly positive in showing that residential experiences can do so much to help in that regard.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  6. Those skills not only enrich our lives as individuals but benefit society and the economy. The evidence that illustrates the benefits of residential outdoor education, both at home and abroad, is well documented, and it is so compelling that I do not believe that anyone should miss out on such an opportunity. Indeed, listening to young people whose lives have been changed as a result of residential education has been one of the most rewarding aspects of my entire parliamentary career. I will address the very important question that Willie Rennie asked me in the committee, about why the bill is a priority. First, I believe that, in the post-Covid era, we have to work even harder to build resilience and confidence in our young people, especially those from the most disadvantaged communities.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  7. Everyone should get the chance to do this.” Throughout my 16 years as a secondary school teacher and my subsequent two decades as a parliamentarian, I have been firmly of the view that outdoor education is one of the most valuable and rewarding learning experiences that any young person can have. Residential outdoor education, through which young people experience an environment that is far removed from their everyday situations, is often life changing, as it was for Nevis. Adventurous new experiences in the outdoors allow young people to develop lifelong connections to the natural environment. They build self-esteem, self-reliance, confidence and, most important, resilience. They also help young people to learn leadership skills, the importance of valuing friendship and what it means to be part of a team.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  8. Before I move the motion in my name, I intimate that I will spend my opening speech talking about the principles of the bill and that, throughout the debate and in my summing-up speech, I will deal with the concerns that have been raised by the Education, Children and Young People Committee and by other members. On returning from Lagganlia outdoor centre, Nevis—who has cerebral palsy, is a full-time wheelchair user and needs support with feeding and an adult carer with him at all times—said: “Rock climbing was awesome and I got to sail round an island with my friends in a storm—things I can’t usually do and what you think you will see only in films. I felt so brave.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  9. It is truly a pillar of our regional identity. I also thank all the volunteers at Balhousie castle in Perth, who maintain an excellent establishment to keep the history of this proud regiment alive. I have the immense pleasure of knowing many Black Watch veterans, some of whom are here today. Their unyielding loyalty and dedication to duty and public service are always evident. Reaching 300 years is strong testament to the commitment and tenacity of the exemplary Black Watch individuals who have dedicated their lives to the service of this country. Long may that story continue. 12:56

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  10. During my early days of election campaigning, along with the First Minister at the time, that was a very emotive issue, not least because the regiment was on active duty in Iraq. What has never changed is the exceptionally high regard in which the regiment is held, not just in Britain but across the world. One has only to look across the Atlantic to the Canadian Black Watch, with its own Highland heritage of tartan, bagpipes and a distinct red hackle, to appreciate some of the far-reaching legacy. I will finish by honouring all those who have served and died in this historic Highland regiment, and to pledge our support to the veterans and their families, some of whom are with us today. The Black Watch continues to instil an enormous sense of pride in those of us who live in Perth and Kinross, Fife, Angus and Dundee.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  11. In 1963, the Black Watch pipes and drums and military band toured the USA and were invited to play at the White House. Nine days later, President Kennedy was assassinated and Jacqueline Kennedy requested that the Black Watch pipe major and eight pipers play at the funeral—they led the cortege from the White House to Washington cathedral. Just as they had been active during the rapid expansion of empire, soldiers from the Black Watch were also the last troops to leave the Hong Kong garrison during the handover of 1997, marking the end of the British empire. Many changes and reforms have impacted on the Black Watch over the centuries, including what was at the time the highly controversial merger in 2006 of the distinct Scottish regiments into the Royal Regiment of Scotland.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  12. Among those members of the regiment who were killed was Fergus Bowes-Lyon, the brother of the late Queen Mother. In the second world war, soldiers of the Black Watch were victims of the German blitzkrieg in France, but the regiment rebounded, contributing to the defeat of Erwin Rommel’s forces at the battle of El Alamein—one of the major turning points of the war—and participating in the invasions of Sicily and Normandy, and also of Burma, when Field Marshal Wavell, or Earl Wavell, the most distinguished Black Watch officer, was commander-in-chief and viceroy of India. Throughout the post-war era, the Black Watch largely returned to its original roots as a police force, engaging in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency roles once again, in Kenya, Cyprus, the troubles in Northern Ireland and Iraq.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  13. Further, of course, the Black Watch was in the thick of the fighting during the 1815 battle of Waterloo, which saw the final defeat of Napoleon Bonaparte, paving the way for pax Britannica and Britain’s rise to global dominance. Throughout that period, the Black Watch was active across the globe—in the Crimea, India, Egypt, Sudan and South Africa—and I look forward to other members’ speeches, which may delve deeper into some of the gallantry across the world, which shaped the international reputation of this proud regiment. The Black Watch was, of course, involved in some of our country’s darkest moments. In the first world war, the regiment was seriously depleted, suffering more than 8,000 fatalities in costly battles such as Loos, the Somme and Passchendaele.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  14. In the regiment’s very first engagement, at the battle of Fontenoy in 1745, a French officer described the Black Watch as “Highland Furies who rushed in on us with more violence than ever did the sea driven by tempest”. Despite British defeat, the regiment’s valiant conduct was noticed by the Duke of Cumberland, who was greatly impressed by its Highland style of fighting. Throughout the 18th and 19th centuries, the Black Watch was heavily involved in every major British campaign across the globe, starting with the seven years war, in the North American continent. During the subsequent American war of independence, the Black Watch helped to inflict a crushing defeat on George Washington’s forces at the battle of Long Island in 1776.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  15. King George II authorised the raising of a further four companies, which, together, would form a regiment of the line, first parading in Aberfeldy in 1740. Two years later, the regiment was sent to Flanders to fight the French, leaving much historical speculation as to whether the Jacobite rebellion in 1745—culminating in the final large- scale battle on British soil, the battle of Culloden— could have been possible had the Black Watch remained stationed in the Highlands. The subsequent defeat of Charles Edward Stuart’s forces ended decades of civil unrest in the British Isles, creating stability at home and enabling global colonial expansion. It did not take long for the Black Watch to gain its worldwide reputation for fearlessness in the face of the enemy.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  16. As we all know, Jacobitism—the desire of some clans to return the house of Stuart to the British throne—precipitated several rebellions in the early 18th century and, in 1725, six independent companies, later called the Black Watch, were raised by General George Wade, comprising clans deemed loyal to the Crown, including the Campbells, Grants, Munros and, indeed, the esteemed clan Fraser, who we will no doubt hear from later in the debate. The Highland watches, as they were collectively known, were tasked with policing the Highlands and enforcing the Disarming Act 1715, gaining distinction from regular soldiers as am Freiceadan Dubh, because of their dark tartan kilts, which, of course, remain a staple of the uniform today.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  17. I thank all colleagues who signed the motion, and I also thank the First Minister for his presence—I know that he has deep connections with the Black Watch. I extend a warm welcome to the members of the Black Watch Association, with their famous red hackles, who are in the public gallery. We are, of course, celebrating the tercentenary of the origins of the Black Watch, which is a momentous event that provides us with the opportunity to reflect on the impact of that proud regiment over the course of its long history. We know that that impact was greatly treasured by the late Queen Mother, who was the regiment’s longest-serving colonel in chief. The Black Watch formed in a unique way, during a period of instability in the Scottish Highlands.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  18. That is a point that we are conveying to the UK Government. Net Zero Sector (Economic Contribution) 7.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-26 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  19. Is the Scottish Government, together with its UK partners, giving any consideration to concerns around the misinformation that AI can contribute to, in terms of undermining democracy and elections across the world in particular? Richard Lochhead: Liz Smith raises a very important point, which we—and I personally— have raised time and again with successive UK ministers, including the ministers in the new UK Government. One of the issues of concern to the Scottish Government is that, although the UK has tended to talk about the long-term frontier threats of AI, that has come at the expense of talking about and addressing the short-term risks of misinformation, deepfake images, or other more immediate threats that the public and business community, which want to use AI in a way that can be trusted, are very concerned about.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-26 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  20. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on what action it is taking to reduce the level of wildlife crime. (S6O-04416)

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  21. If that is correct, and the evidence is compelling that outdoor education gives the vast majority of pupils that extra-special educational experience, why on earth would we want to turn that opportunity down? That is why I hope that, in due course, in two weeks’ time, members in the chamber will support my member’s bill at stage 1. 17:33

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-11 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  22. The evidence for the benefits of outdoor education is compelling, especially in respect of enhancing crucial life skills such as confidence and resilience. I do not need to remind members of just how important those skills are, considering recent reports on the Scottish education system regarding disciplinary challenges, behaviour, attendance and attainment. We know that there is an alarming increase in the number of young people who are suffering from mental health issues, particularly in the post-Covid era. Outdoor education will not be the panacea that solves all that, but we know, from the qualitative evidence from pupils and teachers, just how beneficial it can be.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-11 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  23. However, following his experience with the Outward Bound Trust, Oliver said: “I’ve got a much better outlook, indeed, I’m a lot better in general ... I’m a lot fitter, a lot more willing to go and do things, step out of my comfort zone ... I can do things I wasn’t able to do before.” Another young person, Eilidh, said: “People think that people like me can’t do things. In fact, sometimes I think I can’t do things, but being outdoors makes me realise that I can do things”. Those transformational stories of residential outdoor education are just one of the reasons why I think that it is so important that we work much harder to ensure that we deal with those who have complex additional support needs. Additional support teachers believe that the experience of outdoor learning can be transformational not just for the child, but for the family.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-11 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  24. As well as the formal evidence that was presented to the Education, Children and Young People Committee, some of the stories that I have heard from convening the cross-party group on outdoor education show just how transformational the experience can be for those who sometimes feel marginalised. An example is Oliver, who is deaf and suffers from a developmental disorder. The past few years have been difficult; he struggled with anxiety and depression, which affected his ability and confidence to connect with others, leading him to drop out of school. His deteriorating mental health negatively impacted his motivation for a number of years, and he would spend much of the time indoors and disengaged from others. Everyday tasks were difficult.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-11 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  25. It is on that basis—namely, providing the very best education for every child—that I want to contribute to the debate through the lens of residential outdoor education. Through my Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill—on which I initially had a very helpful meeting with the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills—I have sought to ensure that, when providing the very best education for everyone, we do more for those with additional support needs. I pay tribute to Pam Duncan- Glancy for helping in that respect. We have to provide inclusive education, which necessarily includes provision for those with the most challenging physical and mental disabilities to enable them to reap the benefits of the rewarding learning experience that outdoor education provides.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-11 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  26. I very much welcome the members’ business debate that Alexander Stewart has brought to the chamber. In his opening remarks, he was absolutely right to lay out the challenges that are facing pupils with additional support needs across Scotland. Recent evidence is clear about the extent of the increase in the number of ASN pupils, and about the accompanying concerns among parents and teachers. That said, we should not forget—as Alexander Stewart rightly pointed out—that part of the reason for that increase is better diagnosis. That is a good thing, and we should celebrate it. However, we should also be clear about the growing complexities that are facing schools as they seek to provide the very best education for every child, no matter who he or she may be.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-11 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  27. For example, I have said several times in the chamber that I believe that the Scottish Government’s Scottish child payment policy is effective and well received, but there are other aspects in relation to which the evidence on welfare benefits is much less clear and the pressures of the welfare spend are such that they are now way out of reach of the Scottish Government’s budget.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-11 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  28. Labour put that down to the need for a debate about priorities and universalism. That part is right. There is an important debate to be had about the principle of universal benefits, particularly when there will be no fiscal sustainability in the foreseeable future. Indeed, I have been arguing for such a debate for many months. However, if we are to have that debate, the principles that we must apply must have regard to those who are most in need and to a strong evidence base on which policies are the most effective in mitigating poverty and vulnerability. When it comes to Labour’s winter fuel policy, it falls foul on both of those counts. Those criteria of examining vulnerability and substantiating evidence should challenge the Parliament.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-11 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  29. The result is that the annual bill for a household using a typical amount of gas and electricity will go up to £1,849 per year, which is an increase of £111. These are worrying times, and that is even before we come to the politics of it all. I dare say that, for the purposes of the debate, we will have to come to the politics, but I want to look at the bigger picture. The Labour Government is still promising to cut energy bills by £300 by 2030. That statistic has been widely disputed by economic analysts, and it certainly does not fit well with Labour’s decision to remove the winter fuel payment as a universal benefit to all pensioners. The significant cutback of the winter fuel payment meant that just 130,000 older Scots received the payment this winter, with approximately another 900,000 older Scots losing out during the winter.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-11 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  30. The impending tariffs that America has placed on Canada, Mexico and China have already triggered retaliatory responses, and the governor was extremely blunt about the detrimental effects on Britain’s economy should those trade wars escalate further, most especially in terms of new global inflationary pressures and on productivity growth. That is exactly what we do not need at the same time as the on-going cost of living pressures and rising energy bills, which—as we know from our constituency mailbags—are probably still what worry people the most. As the cabinet secretary mentioned, since October the energy price cap has risen three times in a row: it rose by 10 per cent in October and 1 per cent in January, and it is to rise by 6.4 per cent in April.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-11 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  31. In recent days, we have, as a nation, rightly been consumed by the news from Washington—by the utterly unacceptable and bullying rhetoric of the Trump Administration as it tries to undermine the established relationships within the western world and to hamper moves towards peace in Ukraine after three long years of war. As we watched on, aghast, at what was unfolding on our television screens, the governor of the Bank of England, Andrew Bailey, was giving evidence to the Treasury Select Committee. He was warning of another American attack on the western economies, through trade wars.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-11 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  32. To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the reported comment by the Scottish Information Commissioner that Scotland’s non- departmental public bodies, also known as quangos, are costing taxpayers £6.6 billion annually. (S6O-04390)

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-03-05 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  33. I encourage Parliament to unanimously support the local government finance order before us today. The Deputy Presiding Officer: That concludes that item of business. There will be a brief pause before we move on to the next item of business, to allow front-bench members to change places. Increasing Investment

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  34. The settlement also provides continued fiscal certainty through our policy of guaranteeing the combined general revenue grant plus non- domestic rates funding that is set out in the order. That means that any loss of non-domestic rates income will be compensated for by increased general revenue grant, which, in effect, underwrites that critically important revenue stream. Bearing in mind that the overall quantum was confirmed when the Budget (Scotland) (No 4) Bill was passed by Parliament, Opposition members should note that failure to approve the order would result in Scotland’s local authorities and, as a consequence, all our local communities, being deprived of more than £618 million of additional funding in this financial year and more than £1 billion of additional Scottish Government investment next year.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  35. We have listened to the requests of COSLA and others, and we acknowledge that a council’s decision on tax provides important financial and administrative accountability to its local electorate. As well as accounting for local needs, we expect councils to consider the impact of council tax increases on local people and their household finances. Along with COSLA, we have announced a joint programme of engagement to build consensus on reforms to make council tax fairer. Because there are differing and competing views on what that reform should look like, we will engage transparently, through our partnership approach, to build a consensus on a modernised, fairer local taxation system that can support the local services that communities across Scotland expect and deserve.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  36. Next year, the Scottish Government will provide local authorities with a total funding package that is worth more than £15 billion, delivering an increase of more than £1 billion—or 8 per cent— which is a real-terms increase of 5.5 per cent, despite the challenging circumstances that I outlined in my opening statement. In addition, almost £867 million of further Scottish Government support is provided outwith the local government finance settlement. That includes the funding that is paid to local authorities for the attainment Scotland fund, the schools for the future programme, area-based schemes, regeneration programmes and city deals. That brings the Scottish Government’s total investment in local authorities to almost £16 billion.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  37. In saying all that, we will support the order today because we managed to negotiate a budget that secured some significant investment into local authorities, including social care support through the national health service in Orkney and Shetland and employer national insurance compensation, which will help. We also need to get money to local authorities because they need it. Even if it is not sufficient, they need it. We will support the order today, but it is a qualified support. I hope that the minister takes into account the long-term funding issues and the disparity between some local authorities and others. 15:23 Ivan McKee: The 2025 local government finance order that is before us today seeks parliamentary approval for the guaranteed payment of £13.9 billion in revenue support to be paid to Scotland’s 32 local authorities.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  38. Does Mr Rennie recognise that the problem that he set out regarding Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Aberdeenshire has been exacerbated by the fact that we have not had a revaluation since 1992? Willie Rennie: I think that it was 1991, but yes—absolutely. The system has been exacerbated by that issue; there is no doubt about that. I hope that the minister takes that into account and seeks to change the system. I have seen the effect in Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire and in Edinburgh, where local government has struggled to even keep up with other local authorities.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-27 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  39. I have taken up too much time, but I come back to the point that, if the Scottish Government is going to argue for its policies, when it comes to the future of the economy of Scotland, it has to provide the evidence to support those arguments and I do not think that the public believe that the evidence is there. That is why we will not be supporting this budget—we do not think that it is good for the public; we do not think that it is good for business; and we do not believe that it is good for the social security budget. For a whole range of reasons, we will be opposing the budget. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I call Ivan McKee to wind up the debate. Minister—up to 10 minutes, please. 17:44

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-25 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  40. Should it be the expansion of early learning and childcare? I think that that would be an absolutely foolhardy decision. Should it be the reintroduction of tuition fees? I think that that would be a foolhardy decision as well. We have made huge progress on access to higher education— The Deputy Presiding Officer: First Minister— briefly. The First Minister: Therefore, the challenge for the Conservatives is, at what point will they spell out where the swingeing cuts will be made? Liz Smith: On that point, First Minister, I have been asking for quite some time whether it is essential to have quite so many people on social security benefit for such a long time, because the case load in Scotland is much longer term than it is in other parts of the UK. That in itself would save quite a lot of money.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-25 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  41. In fact, we supported and voted for the Scottish child payment because the evidence shows that the payment is effective, for exactly the reasons that the First Minister has just set out. However, does that analysis pertain in the other policies? I am sorry to say that that is not the case, because we can put on record several dialogues within the Finance and Public Administration Committee and the Social Justice and Social Security Committee where that evidence has not been forthcoming. That is the point. Is the First Minister going to intervene again? The Deputy Presiding Officer: First Minister— briefly. The First Minister: I thank Liz Smith for giving way again. The Conservatives can make that general comment, but they do not then go on to give a specific commitment on what elements of the social contract should be removed.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-25 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  42. Is that not part of the evidence that supports the cabinet secretary’s point that Scotland is the only part of the United Kingdom that is demonstrating that child poverty is falling compared to other parts of the United Kingdom, where measures such as the child payment do not exist and child poverty is rising? The Deputy Presiding Officer: Liz Smith—I can give you some of that time back. Liz Smith: I thank the First Minister—I will probably have to reverse my decision if the compliments are going to flow as frequently as he has indicated. However, he makes a serious point. It is not about that one specific policy, which, again, the Scottish Conservatives willingly admit is effective.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-25 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  43. That is the main problem. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Always through the chair, please. The First Minister: I put on the record that I will miss Liz Smith’s contributions to this Parliament and I welcome the contribution that she has made over the years. On the point about issues such as the Scottish child payment, does Liz Smith recognise that the investment that is made in lifting family incomes, in and of itself, assists as an economic stimulus in communities because it boosts the spending power of individuals to spend locally on crucial investments in their family circumstances?

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-25 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  44. I am sorry to say that the evidence is just not there to prove that. With due respect to you, cabinet secretary, and to the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, I have been asking for months now about what you feel the justification is when it comes to the extra additions. The percentage changes to some of the social security budget are far in excess of what is happening in the other parts of the UK and we simply cannot afford that sum total. I believe that the Scottish Government understands that—I think that you know what the problem is— The Deputy Presiding Officer: Through the chair, please. Liz Smith: Therefore, when you are making that agreement with the Scottish Fiscal Commission, cabinet secretary, I think that you have to be very honest about the financial burden that it is putting on the Scottish economy.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-25 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  45. Liz Smith: I will, in a minute. Craig Hoy rightly identified why that is not the case. Shona Robison: I do not fundamentally disagree with Liz Smith’s point. Incidentally, though, I do not think that Craig Hoy identified any of those points. Is not one of the pieces of evidence that has come to light recently that, out of the whole of the United Kingdom, Scotland is the only place where child poverty levels are falling—they are rising elsewhere? Surely that is a concrete piece of evidence that this Government’s investment is working. Liz Smith: Cabinet secretary, when it comes to the Scottish child payment, I have put on record several times in this Parliament that I think that the evidence is quite strong on it. However, is that the case for all the policies within the social contract?

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-25 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  46. The reason that the SNP put forward for apparently being willing to accept the pain of that economic performance gap was that it is wholly committed to the so-called social contract with the people of Scotland. In its eyes, it provides a much more compassionate and munificent benefits system. If there were to be any evidence for that justification, the SNP would have to prove three things. It would have to prove, first, that people really feel that they are getting good value for money when it comes to public services and putting up with a higher tax burden; secondly, that there is demonstrable evidence that all the social contract policies are delivering better outcomes; and thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, that people have enough money coming in to pay for that social contract. Shona Robison: Will Liz Smith give way?

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-25 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  47. If ever there was any evidence of that lack of regard for the wider implications, it was shown in the Scottish Information Commissioner’s remarks last week, when he said that our 130 or so quangos now cost £6.6 billion per year. We really must reflect on that—not just from the Scottish Government’s point of view, but as a Parliament. From the Scottish Fiscal Commission’s projections, we can see the stark nature of the problem, which is that Scottish taxpayers are paying £1.7 billion more than they would if we had the same tax rates and thresholds as the rest of the UK, but the net funding is £838 million, which the commission rightly describes as the economic performance gap. That is before we even come to the bloated public sector or the unaffordable size of the welfare budget, to which I will return in just a minute.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-25 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  48. Gosh, how I will miss these debates. [Interruption.] I will miss you, too, Mr Swinney. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Through the chair, Ms Smith—particularly with that sort of comment. Liz Smith: I am sure that the First Minister will miss me, too. As Craig Hoy rightly pointed out at the start of the process, the budget has exposed a fundamental divide in Scottish politics between, on the one hand, those who prioritise economic growth in order to stimulate investment, create jobs, encourage aspiration and, crucially, increase both the tax base and tax revenues that we need for our public services, and, on the other, those who believe in the big state and a higher tax agenda, so that the Government can take more of the public’s money and spend it without, in our view, having due regard to its impact on the wider economy.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-25 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  49. I move, That the Parliament agrees that, for the purposes of section 11A of the Income Tax Act 2007 (which provides for Income Tax to be charged at Scottish rates on certain non- savings and non-dividend income of a Scottish taxpayer to be charged above the personal allowance), the Scottish rates and limits for the tax year 2025-26 are as follows— (a) a starter rate of 19%, charged on income up to a limit of £2,827, (b) the Scottish basic rate is 20%, charged on income above £2,827 and up to a limit of £14,921, (c) an intermediate rate of 21%, charged on income above £14,921 and up to a limit of £31,092, (d) a higher rate of 42%, charged on income above £31,092 and up to a limit of £62,430, (e) an advanced rate of 45%, charged on income above £62,430 and up to a limit of £125,140, and (f) a top rate of 48%, charged on income above £125,140.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-20 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  50. It is important to remind members that those positive changes will go ahead only if the Parliament votes for the Scottish rate resolution today and for the budget overall. The Government is clear on what its priorities are: we are choosing to invest to eradicate child poverty, to grow the economy, to tackle the climate emergency and to provide high-quality and sustainable public services. That is why I ask members to vote to ratify the proposed changes to Scottish income tax in 2025-26.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-02-20 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT