Alex Rowley
Scottish Labour · Scotland
“Does the minister accept that funding for Forth Valley College needs to increase year on year? Otherwise, we will be in the same position next year and the following year, with the Alloa campus facing the threat of closure.”
“We have had eight parliamentary debates on sport in this session since 2021—I checked that yesterday with the Scottish Parliament information centre; we have four cross-party groups in the Parliament that look at different aspects of sport; and we have a whole host of strategies.”
“Many years ago, when I was a councillor in Kelty, the local community came together to save a park, and it raised a whack of money—about £800,000 in total—for a play park.”
“I am a kind of glass-half-full type of person, and I believe that progress has been made over the 12 years for which I have been an MSP, although it is true that we need to do a lot more. One of the keys to that is getting people to work together. When it comes to sport in the area that I come from— Fife—I see loads of volunteers.”
“I am pleased to speak in Brian Whittle’s members’ business debate. When I saw the motion, I thought, “That’s the one I’ll make my final speech as an MSP in.” I know, from serving on committees with Brian over the past 10 years since he entered Parliament, that sport is an issue that he has consistently highlighted.”
“That is a result of the investment that Fife Council made in the park in 2012-13, including in an astroturf pitch that Kelty Hearts now play on. That is there for the public—it is a public park. Alongside that, there is a big new community centre. We can see the value of that. Most of those activities are run by volunteers.”
The complete record
Every one of 200 lines we hold for Alex Rowley, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 2 of 4.
“Surely the Scottish Government must be concerned about the increasing levels of disease in the salmon industry, especially given the finding in the committee’s report from earlier this year that slow progress was being made on regulation. Does the cabinet secretary recognise the damage that that continues to do to the national and international reputation of Scottish salmon? Mairi Gougeon: I can only reiterate what I have said in previous responses in that regard. We want to ensure that mortalities are driven down to the lowest possible levels. It is in all our interests— those of the Government and those of the industry—that that happens, which is why the investment in innovation is critical.”
“Màiri McAllan: I agree with much of what Alex Rowley has said. It is worth noting that the Government, which has a strong track record in the delivery of affordable homes, has recently set out a plan to increase that supply substantially over the coming years. A strategic approach to the availability of land, as Alex Rowley put it, is absolutely right. As I said, it is for planning authorities, which know their areas best, to identify the pipeline of deliverable housing land as part of their local development plans. However, I agree with Alex Rowley that the issue of how public land might be better used is an important one.”
“Alex Rowley: I asked that question because Dunfermline, in Fife, has the massive St Columba’s and Woodmill high school sites. Fife Council, which sold the sites for private housing development, told me that those sites will contain a small percentage of social rented housing. Along the road from there is Lynebank hospital, which I assume is under the control of the Scottish Government or the health board, where land is being sold for private housing. The former Fife College site is another massive site. All those different bodies are happy to sell off land to make money, but should we not have a strategic approach—for example, a national registry of public land—so that, when we are in a position to build houses, as we will have to over the next decade, we will at least have the land?”
“To ask the Scottish Government what consideration it has given to the availability of land for building social housing, in relation to its housing to 2040 strategy. (S6O-05217) The Cabinet Secretary for Housing (Màiri McAllan): The housing to 2040 strategy acknowledges that delivering affordable housing depends on making sufficient land available, as well as aligning housing supply with development plans. It is for planning authorities to set out a pipeline of deliverable housing land in their local development plans. That should be based on a local housing land requirement that exceeds the minimum all-tenure housing land requirement that was set out in national planning framework 4. We recognise the importance of bringing those plans forward as soon as possible, and we are offering support to do so via the national planning hub.”
“Amendment 19 disagreed to. Section 2, as amended, agreed to. Section 3—Commencement 16:15 Amendments 20 and 21 not moved. Amendment 22 moved—[Craig Hoy]. The Deputy Convener: The question is, that amendment 22 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Convener: There will be a division. The vote is now closed.”
“Craig Hoy: I will press all three amendments. The Deputy Convener: The question is, that amendment 19 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Convener: There will be a division. For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Lorna Slater] Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Deputy Convener: The result of the division is: For 24, Against 84, Abstentions 0.”
“That would be an important pause that would give Parliament time to scrutinise and give the Government time to ensure that the bill is, in fact, legally watertight. If the Government and the minister are serious about restoring confidence, they should recognise that a little more time and a little more scrutiny are not obstacles but necessities. I hope that ministers will support amendment 23 and take the time to get this right. I move amendment 19. Ivan McKee: Craig Hoy’s amendments 19, 22 and 23 appear to be intended to prevent the bill from working properly. They seek to remove the ancillary power, the commencement provision and the bill’s short title. As such, they cannot be accepted, and I urge members to resist them. The Deputy Convener: I call Craig Hoy to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 19.”
“Craig Hoy: Yes, and since then, several major issues have come to light, including the fact that the Government is not entirely certain that the bill is legally competent and that it will not be in the courts within months, potentially putting £400 million of the public’s money on the line. On amendment 23, I have been clear about our concerns about the pace and handling of the bill. If Parliament is to legislate responsibly, we must ensure that scrutiny is not sacrificed. Amendment 23 removes the short title. I accept that it is a technical provision, but in the context of such a serious legislative failure, even technical provisions matter. Removing the short title would not stop the bill entirely but would slow its finalisation and would require ministers to return to Parliament.”
“Ministers knew about the original defect months before Parliament was told, and they have chosen to introduce the bill in budget week, when the public’s attention is elsewhere and scrutiny in Parliament is inevitably constrained. The fact that we are sitting on a Thursday evening with a deadline ahead of us to consider this important legislation reinforces that point. If the Government is serious about restoring confidence after such a serious failure, it should support amendment 22. Ivan McKee: Does Craig Hoy recognise that the Conservative business manager sat in the Parliamentary Bureau meeting with other business managers and the Government and agreed to this timetable?”
“In those circumstances, it would be wrong to hand ministers further latitude, so removing section 2 would ensure that any future changes must come back to the chamber for full scrutiny. I hope that ministers will finally learn from their mistakes and embrace the transparency that agreeing to amendment 19 would ensure, in light of the legislation being wrong, being rushed and being open to legal challenge. I will speak briefly to amendment 22. I repeat that we are opposed to the bill. Amendment 22 seeks to remove section 3, which is the commencement provision of the bill, because the Government has shown that it cannot be trusted with the timing of critical decisions.”
“Amendment 16 disagreed to. Amendments 17 and 18 moved—[Craig Hoy]— and agreed to. The Deputy Convener: We move to the group on requirement for legislation. Amendment 19, in the name of Craig Hoy, is grouped with amendments 22 and 23. Craig Hoy: I will try to be equally brief. It will have been no surprise to the Government that my Scottish Conservative colleagues and I have been making clear our concerns about the pace and handling of the bill. Section 2 gives ministers broad powers to make additional regulations, but the bill exists precisely because of a serious legislative error that went undetected and because Parliament was not told about it until months after officials became aware.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Lorna Slater] Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Deputy Convener: The result of the division is: For 24, Against 84, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment 15 disagreed to. Amendment 16 moved—[Stephen Kerr]. The Deputy Convener: The question is, that amendment 16 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Convener: There will be a division. The vote is closed. Stephen Kerr: On a point of order, convener. I did not get to vote. I would have voted yes. The Deputy Convener: Thank you, Mr Kerr. I will ensure that that is recorded.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Lorna Slater] Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Deputy Convener: The result of the division is: For 22, Against 83, Abstentions 0.”
“Therefore, the Government cannot accept those amendments and I urge members to oppose amendments 15 and 16. In respect of amendment 18, which would require all regulations to be affirmative regulations, and amendment 17 on consultation, I acknowledge the importance of appropriate consultation and scrutiny when making any regulations. Therefore, the Government will accept amendments 17 and 18 in the name of Craig Hoy. Stephen Kerr: I support all the amendments in the name of Craig Hoy. In respect of my amendments, I believe that any responsible legislature would insist on those protections, and I think that any responsible Government would, frankly, welcome them. I press amendment 15. The Deputy Convener: The question is, that amendment 15 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Convener: There will be a division.”
“If ministers are serious about strengthening confidence in the bill, I hope that they will support my amendment and close the loophole. Therefore, I will move amendments 17 and 18. Ivan McKee: Section 2 gives ministers regulation-making power to make any “provision they consider appropriate for the purposes of, in connection with or for giving full effect to” the bill. Amendment 15 would mean that any regulation would be effective for a limited period of 12 months unless the Parliament resolved otherwise, and amendment 16 would remove those ancillary powers after 24 months. The purpose of the amendments is unclear, as they would severely restrict the ability to deal with any issues that would later arise and require use of the powers or regulations that have already been made.”
“Amendment 18 removes wording that would give ministers far too much discretion to set aside parliamentary scrutiny and would ensure that all future changes and regulations are subject to the affirmative procedure. Those who sit on the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee have watched with concern the creeping use of skeleton legislation and delegated procedures for matters that should come to the Parliament. Given its importance, the Parliament simply cannot allow loopholes or opportunities for ministers to seek to avoid scrutiny. We have already seen what happens when the Parliament is kept in the dark. Amendment 17 would simply ensure that ministers must follow the rules as written and not reinterpret the word “if”, which is in the bill, if it is convenient to do so.”
“Given the scale of the error that we are now correcting and the fact that some businesses have been billed unlawfully, it is surely only right that those who bear that liability are properly consulted when further regulations are made by ministers. Therefore, amendment 17 simply requires ministers to consult those groups who are affected. That is a reasonable expectation after years of poor communication and months of withheld information, which have created confusion and concern in the industry. Future regulations should be informed—certainly not directed—by those who will be affected by them and, potentially, by increased costs. If the Government is committed to transparency and better policy making, it will support the amendment.”
“On that basis, I urge members to support amendments 15 and 16. I move amendment 15. Craig Hoy: I note the time, so I will try to be as concise as possible. Parliament has heard repeatedly about the strain that has been placed on businesses by business rates on unoccupied properties that they cannot sell or rent. All of us have probably had a constituent with such a case. In the past 72 hours, I have heard from several constituents who have been affected, some of whom have demolished buildings, rather than paying the tax on their properties. Paul Sweeney, rightly, raised the issue in respect of listed buildings, where the problem is particularly acute.”
“It may well be justified—the public finances could certainly not withstand a loss running into hundreds of millions—but the fact that we are even considering retrospective legislation should give every member pause. As Christine Grahame said, retrospection is rare. It is constitutionally sensitive to go back in time and reset law, so it must be tightly controlled. Amendments 15 and 16 put Parliament back in control. They ensure that retrospective correction does not become a permanent executive habit. They ensure that the Government cannot convert an emergency fix into an on-going extension of ministerial authority. We have all, in this session, lived through just that happening. Amendments 15 and 16 also reaffirm the basic constitutional truth that ministers govern only with the authority of this Parliament, not the other way round.”
“That principle is simple. When Parliament grants exceptional powers, it must also set clear limits, demand clear justification and insist on clear accountability. That is the only honest way to legislate. My amendments do nothing more than impose the discipline that the Government has repeatedly demonstrated that it will not impose on itself. The amendments say to ministers that they may use that extraordinary power, but only for a fixed period and for the sole purpose of correcting their error. Once that task is complete, the power expires. The extraordinary remains extraordinary. We need to keep in mind why we have ended up where we have. We are dealing with retrospective correction through legislation.”
“Amendment 14 disagreed to. Section 2—Ancillary provision 16:00 The Deputy Convener: We move to regulations under section 2. Amendment 15, in the name of Stephen Kerr, is grouped with amendments 16 to 18. Stephen Kerr: This is my final contribution to stage 2 amendments. Amendments 15 and 16 give Parliament the option of imposing a time limit—a sunset clause—on the sweeping regulation-making power that ministers are seeking in the bill. Parliament should never hand ministers powers of the kind that are contained in section 2. Those powers allow ministers to reach back into previous financial years, rewrite the legal consequences of their own mistakes and modify primary legislation by regulation. If any Government is to be given powers of that exceptional scale, proper constitutional safeguards must follow as a matter of principle.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Lorna Slater] Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Deputy Convener: The result of the division is: For 24, Against 85, Abstentions 0.”
“I do not think that any of the things that have been said about where it fits in are appropriate, because the amendment is here—it is on the page—and the Presiding Officer has approved it for debate. I press amendment 14. The Deputy Convener: The question is, that amendment 14 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Convener: There will be a division.”
“We say that we do it, but we are not very good at it; I am pretty sure about that. However, I am not suggesting that we bypass the Presiding Officer. By the way, to take the member’s point on board, if that is what is being suggested, I do not think that amendment 14 would have got this far because it would have been ruled out of order. The amendment is in order; it has been selected and approved to be part of this afternoon’s stage 2 debate. As I said, my intention is to build in the scrutiny that this piece of legislation needs. It is not normal legislation. I think that we all understand that, right? The intention of my amendment is to provide a baked-in, post-legislative look two months after the bill receives royal assent. I do not think that it is burdensome or unconstitutional.”
“When a bill is lodged, the certificate of competence comes from the Presiding Officer, and of course the bill can be amended at stage 2 and at stage 3. However, at stage 3, it is, again, up to the Presiding Officer to decide whether any proposed amendments are within the ambit of the bill. If they are not, they are not competent, so they are not lodged. When an amendment is lodged at stage 3, we are in the hands of the Presiding Officer and not a political Government, thankfully. Stephen Kerr: I was not saying anything about any of that stuff. A straw man argument is being built. I am talking about building into the legislation an additional step as a safeguard by expecting the Government to do its work and come back to the chamber. We should have a commitment to post- legislative scrutiny.”
“A lot of what he said—“Have you not been here for four and a half years? Do you not know this stuff?”—was uncalled for. The point is that we say that a hallmark of the Parliament is attention to post-legislative scrutiny, but we are not very good at it—we are not very good at it at all. Therefore, by lodging an amendment to what could potentially be a legally contentious piece of legislation, I am trying to be helpful by saying, “Let us look at this two months down the line, in the light of what transpires.” I do not think that that is very controversial. Christine Grahame: The member must not become more confused by talking about post- legislative scrutiny. That is not what this is about. This is about whether something is legislatively competent. Let me take the member right back.”
“Stephen Kerr: I give way to Keith Brown. Keith Brown: Will the member confirm his position, having had explained to him by Christine Grahame the fundamental tenet of this Parliament that the Presiding Officer and not the Government of the day decides whether something is compliant with the Scotland Act 1998? He should not have had to have that explained to him. It is a fundamental thing. You have been here for four years. You should know this stuff. Having had it explained to you by other members, do you still intend to try to effect a major change by transferring the power to the Government of the day from the Presiding Officer? Is that really your intention? The Deputy Convener: Always speak through the chair. Stephen Kerr: That was highly performative, frankly. [Interruption.] Well, it was.”
“Will the member take an intervention? Keith Brown: Will the member take an intervention? Stephen Kerr: I will take Alex Rowley’s intervention first, and then Keith Brown’s. Alex Rowley: When a bill is passed, somebody could challenge it from outside but, as a member of this Parliament, I have always tended to think that, when the Presiding Officer says that it is legally competent, they must have taken legal advice, with the support being in place for them to do that. We seem to be running round in circles here. It may be that somebody who does not like a piece of legislation will challenge it, but our job is to take the advice that we get, and if we are told that a bill is legally competent, we would surely proceed on that basis. I hope that, once the amendment is rejected, it will not be brought back at stage 3.”
“To ask the First Minister, in light of ExxonMobil’s announcement of the closure of the Mossmorran ethylene plant, what action the Scottish Government is taking to mitigate any damage this will cause to the Cowdenbeath area and the wider Scottish economy. (S6F-04483)”
“To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to address waiting times for gynaecological diagnostic procedures in NHS Fife. (S6O-05177)”
“We need to be positive about what is going on, but recognise that there is a serious funding issue and that we need a more joined-up approach. I wish that members from all parties in the chamber would start to work together and put the people of Scotland first. 15:32”
“Schools are signing up for a project in Fife called the hub, which I have mentioned to the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills on a number of occasions. Pupils who are struggling in school—and, indeed, many pupils who do not want to go to school—go along to training workshops in Methil. Schools across Fife are using that. Many of the young people who I have talked to who have taken part have gone on to get an apprenticeship. Had they not had that opportunity, they would have come out of the school system with no opportunities. We also need to look at models of that kind. That hub is doing brilliant work, but it is struggling to get financial support. I have had meetings with Fife Council education officers to discuss how we can support that organisation. Schools are actively supporting it, and the outcomes are being demonstrated.”
“As part of that honest discussion, let us consider what needs to happen on funding. The motion and the amendments all talk about links with schools; we need to make that link much stronger. We need to recognise that some pupils who come through the school system and come out the other end without the basic skills that they need will not be successful in a college education. Daniel Johnson talked about the work that a school in Liberton is doing with employers. A lot of excellent work is happening with employers. I could rattle off umpteen schools in Fife that are doing really good stuff, and employers have bought into that. However, there needs to be more of a strategic approach to that.”
“There was devastating news yesterday about Mossmorran, where apprentices will need support on how to move forward. We need a joined-up approach to employment and the economy. As Willie Rennie found when he went to Dundee and Angus College, I found Forth Valley College buzzing with people. In our debates, we should be careful not to talk down the success that is happening across Scotland’s colleges. The Colleges Scotland “Keyfacts 2025” report outlined that. Many people have a good experience in our colleges, but we need to be honest. Audit Scotland pointed out that, during the current parliamentary session, colleges have had a 20 per cent real- terms cut to their funding. Colleges such as Fife College and Forth Valley College have made it clear that they cannot continue with the cuts that they are having to make to their budgets.”
“When I looked at the motion and the amendments for the debate, I could see in each a lot of positives on which we could agree. It would be great if political parties in this place were able to come together more. Daniel Johnson talked about a full and frank discussion, but we need to add honesty—about where we are, what needs to be done and how we move forward together in the interests of the people of Scotland. A month or so ago, I was in Forth Valley College for a morning meeting, so I went for breakfast in its excellent cafe. I met a young man from Kirkcaldy, who told me that he was working for a firm in Fife, doing an apprenticeship. He was so excited to tell me about the college, his apprenticeship and how he was getting on. It is therefore important that we recognise that the colleges do not sit in isolation from the wider economy.”
“I talked about my home village—I live near a public park, and every night of the week it is full of young children playing football. There are boys’ teams and girls’ teams. A lot depends on the coaches, who are often parents or people who love the game, giving up their time to coach and support young people. I hope that part of the legacy of the games will be to recognise the voluntary work that goes on and to put in place much more support to encourage the growth of that. I hope that we will qualify for the upcoming games, but if we invest in grass-roots sports now, we can perhaps have the ambition of one day winning a European cup and the world cup. I hope that that will be the legacy that Bill Kidd spoke about. 15:54”
“Stephen Kerr made some interesting points, one being that, although we need to pass the bill in order for the games to go ahead, it is all about protecting UEFA’s commercial interests. With regard to some of the tradespeople who will lose out as a result of the bill, it is, again, for Glasgow City Council to work with those people, because the event will not happen only on the day. There will be a build up to it, and there will be real business opportunities. I hope that we can work with the council to ensure that on-street traders do not lose out and there will be opportunities for them. Bill Kidd made an important point about legacy and what we can do to ensure that. The reality is that football is the national sport in Scotland.”
“We in the Parliament, therefore, want a guarantee that the council will receive the support that it needs to carry out the functions for the event. I was speaking to someone about the bill the other day, and they raised a question with me about the infrastructure around Hampden. I think that the minister should be looking at the infrastructure that is in place. That lady gave me the example of the events that she attended at Murrayfield, which hosts all the big events, such as the large Oasis concerts during the summer, and she talked about the transport links. Another member in the chamber has drawn attention to the transport links around Hampden, in particular the rail track, so I hope that the minister would agree that we should look at what improvements need to be made to ensure that the proper infrastructure is in place.”
“It is worth remembering that at the previous European championships in Germany, the Scotland fans—the tartan army—were praised to the highest by every community they went to, because there was a good atmosphere; it was a party atmosphere. At a time when we see so much division in our country and around the world, football has a key role to play in bringing people together. The minister talked about Scotland’s global reputation for hosting events, and Davy Russell made a point about the staff who are involved in gearing up for such events. We should thank those staff, as Davy Russell did, and recognise that the authority that will have the greatest role to play in 2028, with the support of the Scottish Government, is Glasgow City Council, through its staff.”
“There has been a consensus across the chamber that the 2028 tournament will be good for Scotland, good for Ireland, and good for the UK overall. In his opening speech, the minister talked about armistice day. Interestingly, this morning, I was reading the Central Fife Times, which reported on a game between veterans and serving Black Watch members that took place in my home village of Kelty on Saturday. It raised quite a bit of money for Poppyscotland, and after the game, the participants proceeded to the war memorial and laid a wreath. That goes back to the point about how football—the same goes for many sports, but it is certainly football in Scotland—brings people together.”
“I am grateful for the excellent and constructive engagement that I have had so far with Colleges Scotland on how we can support our college sector in the period ahead. Council Tax Proposals 4.”
“There has been a campus in the Alloa area since the 1960s, and it would be a disaster if it were to close. Does the minister recognise the massive financial pressures that colleges are under? Will he do more to ensure the future of colleges in Clackmannanshire and across the country? Ben Macpherson: As I have recently been articulating in the chamber, the Scottish Government and I recognise the challenges that our college sector is facing and the various publications that there have been on that in recent weeks. I am keen to work with Mr Rowley and all members across the chamber on how we can create a sustainable future for our colleges, given the important role that they play in communities, in addressing poverty and in the future of our economy.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to address reported rises in waiting times for social care assessments and packages in Fife. (S6O-05077)”
“To ask the Scottish Government what rights patients have when their local medical centre has been deemed unfit for purpose by their national health service board. (S6O-05046)”
“I thank him also for his party’s support for the Housing (Scotland) Bill, which the Conservatives could not bring themselves to support, even though it is life-changing for people who face homelessness. Mr Rowley is right. It is up to all of us— Government, Parliament and industry—to create the right conditions for growth and for confidence in an all-tenure approach to housing in Scotland. Through our plan, we provide multiannual funding certainty, coupled with increased funding and a growth target of 10 per cent per year. That is underpinned by action in planning to make it more efficient and to drive proportionality. I want to put on the record in particular the Scottish Government’s creation of the planning hub, which is able to provide surge support to authorities, and our investment in recruiting more planners.”
“At the same time, we must address the skills shortages in the construction sector. Has the cabinet secretary looked at the document that Shelter Scotland published today on delivering an end to Scotland’s housing crisis? It talks about the establishment of a new national housing and land agency that would centrally drive housing programmes in Scotland— The Deputy Presiding Officer: Cabinet secretary. Alex Rowley: —while working with local authorities at the local level. Màiri McAllan: I thank Alex Rowley for his question and for taking the time to read the emergency plan, which I deliberately kept short, sharp and action focused so that it was readily accessible.”
“That has created a perfect storm of strain, but the combination of our housing emergency action plan, which was set out on 2 September, and the Housing (Scotland) Bill, which was passed on 30 September, responds to those challenges. Alex Rowley: Even if we were able to tackle the economic and financial challenges—and I believe that we need to look at every option to do so— there would still be major housing issues. I have read the Government’s housing emergency action plan and, believe me, I want it to deliver. I welcome the fact that it talks about a whole-system approach. Does the cabinet secretary recognise, however, that a whole- system approach means that we need to address the major challenges in planning, which include the underresourcing and understaffing of planning services?”
“To ask the Scottish Government what the key barriers are to tackling Scotland’s housing emergency. (S6O-05023) The Cabinet Secretary for Housing (Màiri McAllan): The conditions that have led to Scotland’s housing emergency reflect long- standing, complex and interconnected challenges. I have often characterised recent years as having been a perfect storm of failing economic conditions across the United Kingdom, driven not least by Brexit and inflationary pressures, coupled with the extraordinary pressures that have been bearing down on households over recent years. My colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice has alluded to some of that this morning.”
“The Deputy Presiding Officer: Mr Rowley, you need to conclude. Alex Rowley: When we are in a situation in which we need the fire service, we expect it to be there and to help us. The proposals before us put that at risk and we must put an end to them. The Deputy Presiding Officer: That concludes the debate on protecting Scotland’s fire service. Urban Gulls Summit”