Ross Greer
Scottish Green Party · Scotland
“In the short term, will the Government introduce measures such as the Scottish Greens’ proposed Amazon tax—a higher rate of NDR for large online retailers—to help even the playing field for small businesses and local high streets?”
“I welcome the fact that vape shops will now be paying full rates. However, that shows how poorly designed the small business bonus scheme was in the first place. The Government spends more than £200 million a year on untargeted reliefs, despite its own review finding no economic benefit to the scheme.”
“Scotland faces a wave of applications for hyperscale data centres. If all the applications that are currently in the pipeline were approved, they would consume up to 6,000MW of power, which is more than one and a half times our entire national power use at peak time and is obviously completely impossible.”
“The Government’s policy is to support what it refers to as “green” data centres, but that position was decided before ChatGPT existed, before Elon Musk launched Grok and before any of those hyperscale proposals came forward. So, what is the Scottish Government’s definition of a “green” data centre?”
“I am glad that the Labour Party has secured a debate on restoring public trust in Scottish politics, because, quite clearly, the public have very little trust in our political institutions. However, that did not begin and does not end with Peter Murrell’s crimes against the SNP.”
“If we want to talk about the damage that has been done to our politics in a UK context, we could mention Labour Together, an institution with strong links to the Prime Minister that was caught spying on journalists and did not declare substantial amounts of money that it had received in donations.”
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“I would be more than happy to engage with him more substantively on that point.”
“In the short term, will the Government introduce measures such as the Scottish Greens’ proposed Amazon tax—a higher rate of NDR for large online retailers—to help even the playing field for small businesses and local high streets? Jenny Gilruth: I thank Mr Greer for his question and for his welcoming of the Government’s position in relation to vape shops set out today. I do not think that he and I will agree on the small business bonus scheme in the short term. It has been hugely successful in supporting a number of businesses across the country. I hope that Mr Greer was encouraged by the comprehensive review of NDR, which I set out in the statement. Of course, as we approach the budget ahead of 2027-28, we will engage on a cross-party basis on all those issues across the chamber.”
“I welcome the fact that vape shops will now be paying full rates. However, that shows how poorly designed the small business bonus scheme was in the first place. The Government spends more than £200 million a year on untargeted reliefs, despite its own review finding no economic benefit to the scheme. That is part of the almost £1 billion in reliefs that goes into the system every year, but the system is still not working. Small businesses are struggling and an ever larger share of our economy is in the hands of multinationals. Profits disappear from Scotland. The fundamental issue is that non-domestic rates bear no relation to a business’s ability to pay. Will the review consider adopting a system that takes profit or turnover into account alongside property value?”
“The Government’s policy is to support what it refers to as “green” data centres, but that position was decided before ChatGPT existed, before Elon Musk launched Grok and before any of those hyperscale proposals came forward. So, what is the Scottish Government’s definition of a “green” data centre?”
“Scotland faces a wave of applications for hyperscale data centres. If all the applications that are currently in the pipeline were approved, they would consume up to 6,000MW of power, which is more than one and a half times our entire national power use at peak time and is obviously completely impossible. There is currently no clear Government strategy or guidance for councils on how to deal with those applications, which are for something completely different from the kind of data centres that already exist in Scotland. We are not talking about socially and economically useful projects such as the University of Edinburgh supercomputer.”
“If we want to talk about the damage that has been done to our politics in a UK context, we could mention Labour Together, an institution with strong links to the Prime Minister that was caught spying on journalists and did not declare substantial amounts of money that it had received in donations. We could also look to the Conservative Party, which for at least a decade was awash with Russian money that linked right back to Vladimir Putin’s inner circle, or we could talk about Nigel Farage and his £5 million donation from a cryptocurrency billionaire. [Interruption.]”
“I am glad that the Labour Party has secured a debate on restoring public trust in Scottish politics, because, quite clearly, the public have very little trust in our political institutions. However, that did not begin and does not end with Peter Murrell’s crimes against the SNP. We have already talked this afternoon about the case of Peter Mandelson and the allegations against Colin Smyth. Anas Sarwar has already talked about the arc of history of this Parliament, and we could go back further and talk about Mike Watson, a member of this Parliament who was convicted of criminal offences. We could also talk about the mysterious disappearance of Foysol Choudhury—the purging of Foysol Choudhury, as some members have suggested.”
“I ask this quite sincerely: does Mr Sarwar genuinely believe what he just said—that this is the greatest political scandal in the history of devolution—when one of his formerly close colleagues, Colin Smyth, is yet to be prosecuted for what he allegedly did in this place? Does he genuinely believe that this is a greater scandal than that?”
“During this pride month, will the First Minister take the opportunity to confirm that he will fulfil his promise to LGBTQ Scots? Will his programme for government include a ban on so- called conversion therapy?”
“This week marks the start of pride month. Pride is not just a celebration of our LGBTQ community; it is a protest. It is clear why protest is still needed. A decade ago, the United Kingdom consistently came top of the list for LGBTQ rights in Europe, yet we have fallen to 22nd place today. That is primarily the result of the vicious wave of transphobia that has been unleashed in recent years, but the attacks on our whole community are escalating. One of the many shameful stains on the UK’s record is its failure to ban the form of torture known as conversion therapy. The First Minister promised a ban on so-called conversion therapy in Scotland within a year of the election if the UK Government failed to introduce a bill. As things stand, Labour has repeatedly promised to introduce a bill but has failed to do so.”
“During the campaign, we heard from the Labour Party that its win in the 2024 general election in Scotland was a mandate against another independence referendum. However, that only has any credibility if we ignore the fact that it rejected the SNP’s equivalent mandates in 2015, 2017 and 2019. We have also heard the “once in a generation” line—that it has not yet been a generation since the referendum.”
“I see that Mr Sarwar’s constructive and collaborative tone lasted about a week in this place. Clearly, no lessons have been learned from the election. Every Green MSP who was elected to this Parliament was elected on a mandate to support the cause of independence. Our gains have made the biggest-ever majority for independence in this Parliament, and we are here to assert that mandate. It is, of course, normal in a democracy that a parliamentary majority can pursue the issues on which it has won a mandate from the voters. However, we saw throughout the campaign—as we are seeing in Parliament this afternoon—increasingly desperate mental gymnastics from unionist parties that claim that we somehow do not have that mandate.”
“The ultimate loyalty of the Scottish Greens is not to king or crown but to the people of Scotland, who are sovereign. I, Ross John Greer, do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles, his heirs and successors, according to law. So help me”
“We believe that Scotland can be like Malta and Luxembourg and offer free bus travel to everyone. Does the First Minister agree and, if not, what is his alternative to help people to save money on their transport costs?”
“Free bus travel for young people is the Scottish Greens’ proudest achievement of the past five years. It is a simple idea, but one that has transformed the lives of young people across the country and saved families a fortune. It has opened up opportunities for young people to take up college courses or job opportunities in neighbouring towns without having to worry about whether they can afford to get there. It means that families can take the bus for a day out without it costing them a fortune. On top of that, climate-friendly public transport is the first choice for an entire generation, because of a scheme secured by Green MSPs. Between young people, older people and disabled people, almost half of all Scots can now use the bus for free. The Scottish Greens want to go further.”
“Although it is far from the final step, it is an important one. For that reason, the Scottish Greens will be proud to vote for the bill at decision time. 18:09”
“Being the then Deputy First Minister’s temporary bag carrier in 2014 was possibly the most nerve- wracking job that I have ever had or will ever have, but I am grateful for everything that Nicola Sturgeon has given to Scotland and, in particular, everything that she has given to our care- experienced community and the impact that that has made on them. The bill is one more step towards meeting the Promise to Scotland’s care-experienced community. It is an opportunity for the Parliament to prove that love is a verb. Above all others, we have a duty to show love to Scotland’s children and young people. For far too long, the state failed to show that love to care-experienced children and young people. The past 13 years have been a journey to make amends for that, and this is just one more step on that journey.”
“As a result of the work that he has done, we have a commitment from the Government to take forward work on the issue. That must be on the agenda in the next parliamentary session. Before I close, I thank the minister for her work and her willingness to collaborate on the bill, as well as all the work that we have taken forward together throughout her portfolio. There is no doubt about how deeply she believes in the mission to make Scotland the best place in the world for children and young people to grow up. I wish her and her family well in whatever she chooses to do after she leaves the Parliament. I also thank Nicola Sturgeon for her leadership in this and so many causes that are core to what many of us believe that this country can be.”
“Everything that we do in the Parliament must be underpinned by, and compliant with, the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. I am glad that we came to the decisions that we did on that. I thank the minister for the work that she has done throughout the process in agreeing to take forward work to look at the situation of estranged young people across Scotland. Not all estranged young people are care experienced. In fact, many find themselves, in the first moments of adulthood, almost totally ineligible for any form of support, or they might be unaware of what support they can access. In that regard, I pay tribute to Councillor Blair Anderson. As I said yesterday, there are no organisations left in Scotland that are dedicated to representing the estranged community—only Blair Anderson plays that role.”
“It cannot be right that, for reasons of age or incapacity, some children who cannot speak for themselves are at risk of missing out on advocacy in the most critical of settings. Ministers will now be required to publish corporate parenting guidance, which will need to include information on the provision and renewal of training. Although that sounds dry, it is incredibly important when we think of the critical role that councillors will play in delivering the Promise. Councillors are the leaders of local government and have direct responsibility for looking after so many children in our society. We can all acknowledge that we came to a relatively untidy solution on UNCRC compliance, but it was the right solution.”
“I am still frustrated that the review of legislation on the care system will come only after the bill is passed, when there could have been an opportunity to make a great many of the obvious changes that I think will be in the review’s conclusions. Nonetheless, the Scottish Greens are proud to support the bill. It is a stronger bill because of the Parliament’s work. It establishes the right to independent advocacy, which is huge progress. I am glad that we succeeded in defining what that means in the amendments that I lodged at stage 2, as well as the amendments from Nicola Sturgeon and the minister at stage 3. I believe that we now have a far more operable and effective definition. Yesterday, we added non-instructed advocacy for children’s hearings.”
“I pay tribute to Scotland’s care-experienced community. We would not be here without the incredibly powerful political movement that they built, which was ultimately impossible for politicians, Parliaments and Governments at all levels to ignore. That is the only reason why we are here to pass the bill. The bill is not everything that our care- experienced community deserves, but it makes huge progress. We will need to return to the issues and there will need to be at least one more bill in the next session. As members have highlighted, in general, child law is pretty hopelessly fragmented. At the very least, the great many acts that have been passed by the Parliament, and by the Westminster Parliament before the Scottish Parliament was formed, will need to be consolidated.”
“15:38 On resuming— The Deputy Presiding Officer : We come to the vote on amendment 91, in the name of the minister. Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed.”
“Careful consideration is also being given to how estranged young people can be referenced in children’s service plans, further promoting consistency and understanding across Scotland. I hope that those clear commitments provide reassurance to Ross Greer and others that the Government understands the importance of ensuring that there is proper awareness and understanding of, and support for, estranged young people. I press amendment 91. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 91 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division. As this is the first division of stage 3, I will suspend the meeting for around five minutes, to allow members to access the digital voting system. 15:32 Meeting suspended.”
“Through the development of guidance or regulations, depending on the outcome of group 8, on guidance related to care experience that will be published under section 5 of the bill, there will be a good opportunity to reflect further on estranged young people and inform public authorities’ understanding of the issues that they face and how to properly support them. The guidance will be co-produced and developed closely with young people with lived experience. I will ensure that estrangement forms a key part of that work. To complement that, wider work will be undertaken, including the mapping of existing local support for estranged young people in order to further develop our understanding of how that works in practice.”
“I thank Scottish Green members for their engagement ahead of stage 3, and I am grateful for the constructive discussions on how we can give proper consideration to estranged young people in our work to keep the Promise. Following the commitments that I outlined in my recent letter to Mr Greer, I am happy to put on record that further work will be progressed to raise awareness and build a better understanding of estranged young people, the challenges that they face and how we can ensure that they are properly supported.”
“15:30 Natalie Don-Innes: I thank all members for their contributions to the debate on group 1, and I thank Ross Greer for raising the important issue of estrangement, which we discussed at length at stage 2. The stage 2 amendments provided an important opportunity to further consider estranged young people during the scrutiny of the bill. At stage 3, I will provide some assurances on the record. I understand that young people who are estranged from their families can face additional challenges. Although they do not have formal care experience status, they do not have the same family support network as their peers. That is particularly important for those who are aged 16 to 25 years who are navigating the transition into adulthood without support and life guidance. At stage 2, I advised that further reflection was needed.”
“That is why we have got to this point with the bill, and they should be incredibly proud of that. The estranged community in Scotland no longer has a single representative organisation. There was one charity that stood up for its interests, but it folded a few years ago. It is my view that it is the Parliament’s responsibility to ensure that estranged young people are not forgotten in the conversation. Some, but not all, estranged young people are care experienced. For the proposals in group 1 that relate to aftercare, I would be keen to hear from the minister how she intends to ensure that estranged young people are not forgotten as we take the provisions forward.”
“I will make just a brief contribution on this group. At stage 2, I lodged a series of amendments to include estranged young people in various provisions of the bill, including, to some extent, in relation to aftercare. I raise the issue now because, at that point, the minister kindly agreed to take those proposals away and consider how, either through the bill or by other means in the provisions relating to the bill and some of the powers that will be afforded to the Government as a result of it, the experience of estranged young people can be better taken into account. I ask the minister to address that in her closing speech on this group. I am acutely aware—as, I think, we all should be—that care-experienced young people have built an incredibly powerful political movement in this country over the past 10 to 15 years.”
“For my part, I cannot reconcile myself with the prospect of denying those who face a life-ending illness the dignity of dying on their own terms. I will vote for the bill this evening. 19:52”
“The guidance that is necessary for the system to operate will also be subject to a resolution of this Parliament—a further safeguard and a further opportunity for Parliament to exercise its rightful control. I respect that that might not feel like a sufficient safeguard for some, but it is for me. I will close by repeating what I said in the stage 1 debate. I sincerely believe that this is not an issue that should be decided by opinion polls. Organisations on both sides have shown that we can get whatever answer we want, depending on how the questions in polls are worded. The public have put their trust in us to make this decision on their behalf. It is the most important decision that I can imagine this Parliament making.”
“We can be absolutely clear now that, if the bill is passed, it will not commence until arrangements are in place to ensure that no worker is ever required to participate in the process, that any worker who exercises their right not to do so is protected from any detriment as a result and that training and qualification requirements have been set for the professionals who are involved. That leads me to an important point. This is the final vote on the principle of the bill, but, if it passes, it is not the final vote on whether a system commences. Once those provisions are in place to protect staff and to set training and qualification requirements, commencement regulations will be laid before this Parliament. If Parliament considers any of those to be inadequate, the commencement regulations can be rejected and the system will not start.”
“The assessments by both the medical practitioners who are involved have been strengthened to include requirements for assessments to take place in person and by medics who have met the patient on more than one occasion. Thanks to Ruth Maguire, there is an additional structured assessment at the point of the second declaration that must take place in private. That is an important protection against coercion, particularly by partners or caregivers. I am frustrated, though, that the very late concerns about legislative competence created so much uncertainty last week.”
“I am grateful to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee for agreeing to my proposal for an advocacy service for any patient who wants it, and to all MSPs who supported the further changes last week to make that service stronger. The advocates would provide an essential service, helping patients to navigate the system and know their rights and options, and acting as an additional safeguard against coercion. On top of that, the patient must have palliative care options presented to and discussed with them. In addition, the doctor must inquire about indirect pressures, including issues such as financial pressure, and they must discuss potential coercion.”
“The first draft of the bill did not strike the right balance between affording the option to those who are at the end of their lives and giving sufficient protection to vulnerable individuals, but it is to the credit of Liam McArthur and a great many other people inside and outside this Parliament that the bill has been so significantly strengthened. Daniel Johnson secured the most important change—the requirement for the six-month prognosis. I recognise that that will disqualify some people who, perfectly legitimately in my view, and without any external pressure, wish an assisted death because of their illness, but it hugely reduces the risk of vulnerable people being coerced into something that they would not otherwise choose. It is not perfect, but it ensures that the system is only for those who are approaching the end of their life.”
“At stage 1, I said that I supported the principles of the bill but not the specifics. I believe that the circumstances of our deaths should be as safe and compassionate as possible, but for too many people suffering prolonged and undignified deaths in Scotland, that is not because of a lack of effective palliative care. There is a total consensus in this Parliament on the need to improve Scotland’s palliative care services, but that is not enough for everyone at the end of their life. People still suffer over their final days and weeks, whether they effectively starve to death or lose their autonomy and the dignity that, for them, is rooted in that autonomy.”
“People who are in that situation often have personal conversations with the patient. We know that that should not happen, but it sometimes does. People make comments, such as asking the patient how much pressure the situation is putting on their family. Those things should not happen, but we know that they do. If the bill passes, it is particularly important for there to be relevant guidance for individuals performing those roles that are connected—but not core—to the function of the assisted dying system. Obviously, individuals in that situation would require guidance with a far lighter touch than that for medical practitioners, but, if we introduce the system, it will be useful to provide them with the steer that they will have a role to play in making sure that no patient feels any form of pressure or coercion.”
“That is a nuanced point, but it is important in ensuring flexibility. Members agreed to amendment 204 last night, which means that we have taken those details out of section 14A and now need to put them somewhere else—in section 23. For that reason, I ask members to support amendment 259. My other amendment in the group covers a separate matter. Amendment 270 would require that anyone who is “involved in the process” of assisted dying, and not just the person carrying out the functions under the act, should have regard to the guidance. It is probably best to use a couple of examples to show what I mean by that. We can think of the hospital orderly whose job it is to escort people between different departments of a hospital, or of the general practitioner’s receptionist, who might be the first person that a patient speaks to.”
“I will begin with a brief announcement about information technology, because my laptop has just informed me that it is going to force a restart in two hours and 40 minutes, at which point we will be locked into what I am sure will be a long series of votes. If any other members are in a similar situation, we should probably do those restarts pre-emptively during our lunch break to avoid finding ourselves unable to vote. I do not intend to speak to all the amendments in the group, as this is where members can help me to complete the jigsaw that we started yesterday in the group dealing with advocacy services. I proposed at that point that we move any detail about the services that advocates should provide out of the bill itself and into guidance, but that the bill should state what that guidance should include.”
“Amendment 96 disagreed to. Section 13—Recording of declarations and statements Amendment 39 moved—[Bob Doris]. 15:30 The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 39 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.”
“For Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Ind) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Ind) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Abstentions Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 50, Against 66, Abstentions 5.”
“Amendment 95 agreed to. Amendment 96 moved—[Sue Webber]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 96 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Ind) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Ind) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Abstentions Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 101, Against 19, Abstentions 1.”
“Amendment 192 disagreed to. After section 12 Amendment 95 moved—[Jackie Baillie]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 95 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Ind) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Ind) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Abstentions Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 50, Against 67, Abstentions 3.”
“Amendment 94 agreed to. Amendments 190 and 191 not moved. Amendment 192 moved—[Stephen Kerr]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 192 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Against Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Ind) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Ind) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Abstentions Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 64, Against 52, Abstentions 4.”
“As I said, amendment 94 reflects the concerns that the Law Society expressed at stages 1 and 2. I am satisfied, as I think the Law Society is, that amendment 94 would address those concerns. Therefore, I urge members to support amendment 94, and my amendments 65 and 68, and to reject the other amendments in the group, for the reasons that I have set out. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 94 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division. As this is the first division of today’s stage 3 proceedings, I suspend the meeting for around five minutes to allow members to access the digital voting system. 15:18 Meeting suspended. 15:24 On resuming— The Deputy Presiding Officer: We come to the vote on amendment 94. Members should cast their votes now.”
“I invite Mr McArthur to say a bit more about what the Law Society’s concerns were, so that I can get a better understanding of the issue. Liam McArthur: The Law Society was concerned that the relationship that would be required between the proxy and the individual requesting an assisted death would be more extensive as a result of the way in which the provision is now phrased, following stage 2. Rather than simply involving the proxy in a facilitative role, it would require an assessment to be made of the individual’s state of mind, which is not the role of the proxy. The witnesses and the medics who were involved in the process would provide the safeguards. As I said, Ross Greer helpfully indicated that the provisions on coercion would still apply across the board.”
“In his intervention, Ross Greer helpfully reminded members that the bill’s protections on coercion apply. Rather than carving out the proxy role and coming to the view that it is unprotected and that there are no sanctions, members need to read the bill in its entirety. My amendment 94 reflects the concerns that the Law Society of Scotland raised with me at stage 1. Changes were made at stage 2 that allowed some of those concerns to be addressed. Jamie Hepburn: I understand Mr McArthur’s point that amendment 94 reflects the Law Society of Scotland’s concerns. However, I think that the present wording of section 12(4)(a) is sensible, and I am a little concerned about the proposed replacement of that wording with the idea that the declaration would simply have to be read out by the proxy.”