Jamie Halcro Johnston
Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party · Scotland
“I know that colleagues from across the chamber will miss his consideration of and commitment to the issues that he was most passionate about. Beatrice Wishart, too, will be giving her last speech, and I particularly thank her for all her efforts on the CPG on islands, for making it the success that it has been and for the strong voice tha…”
“I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests as a partner in a farming business. I thank all those who have signed today’s motion, allowing me to bring the debate to the chamber.”
“Meanwhile, the ferries crisis continues, with the Scottish National Party Government coming face to face with the consequences of two decades of neglect, while islands and ferry-dependent communities pay the price.”
“There, too, costs for operators in the visitor economy are escalating, while the Government sees this as a good time to impose more regulation and more tax. In addition to economic woes, small rural communities are increasingly seeing services moved further away.”
“[Laughter.] However, I have served with John on committees, most recently the Finance and Public Administration Committee, and I know how diligent he has been in conducting the vital scrutiny required of MSPs. Last but not least, the cabinet secretary will be giving her last speech, too.”
“That has practical consequences—whether it is the young family facing another year of being unable to afford a permanent home for their children; the small business owner who seems to be sacrificing more than she gains, but who keeps going; the working person who is trying to make ends meet; or the older person on a fixed income who is af…”
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“We will not always agree on the way forward. However, there are many areas in which we can work together and where the need for change is both urgent and evident. As we go into this election, I hope that the needs of remote, rural and island Scotland will be at the top of the agenda. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Before we move to the open debate, I advise members that the debate is heavily oversubscribed. I am conscious that afternoon business starts at 3 o’clock and that there will need to be time for the chamber to be prepared for that. Therefore, I will have to keep members to their speaking time allocations and I will cut them off if they go beyond their four minutes. 13:54”
“Meanwhile, the ferries crisis continues, with the Scottish National Party Government coming face to face with the consequences of two decades of neglect, while islands and ferry-dependent communities pay the price. If the next Scottish Government is to serve the people of remote, rural and island Scotland, there desperately need to be a reassessment of the relative cost of delivering public services in remote and rural areas. It is clear that those services are not currently being delivered effectively. In many cases, such as the delivery of social care at home, there is no strategy at all. We also need there to be real effort to grow the economies of Scotland’s regions, and an economic strategy from the Scottish Government that analyses regional impact and recognises how island and remote communities operate.”
“It also impacts the quality of service that people are receiving: it is more difficult than ever for many people to see their GP; it is a struggle to find a national health service dentist in most of the country; and crimes are going unreported, because there is no expectation of their being investigated. The problems of remoteness are made all the greater by failures in connectivity. Our roads are in the worst state in my memory. Major infrastructure projects, such as the dualling of the A9 and the A96 and tackling the repeated closure of the Rest and Be Thankful, have been delayed or overlooked. The costs are not solely economic— sometimes they are measured in lives lost.”
“There, too, costs for operators in the visitor economy are escalating, while the Government sees this as a good time to impose more regulation and more tax. In addition to economic woes, small rural communities are increasingly seeing services moved further away. The local police office has disappeared, the local general practitioner surgery has been combined with one elsewhere and the local hospital has had services downgraded or lost entirely. Perhaps even the local school is at risk. The goal of efficiency savings—often without any consideration of second-order effects—is motivated not by the efficient management of resources but by driving costs down. There is a visible retreat of public services from communities. That has a cost in towns and villages being hollowed out.”
“It comes at a time when household finances are already stretched, when many businesses have already had their confidence battered and when we were already worried about additional costs through rate revaluations and tax changes from April. For the public sector, it comes against a backdrop of overstretched and underresourced services. The traditional rural economy is struggling by almost every measure. Farm incomes have fallen, harvests have been decimated by the climate, and increases in regulation have driven up costs and complexity. Many rural communities are also dependent on visitors—whether they are in the Highlands and Islands, the south of Scotland or places such as Stirlingshire and Perthshire.”
“That has practical consequences—whether it is the young family facing another year of being unable to afford a permanent home for their children; the small business owner who seems to be sacrificing more than she gains, but who keeps going; the working person who is trying to make ends meet; or the older person on a fixed income who is afraid to turn on the heating. Specifically rural issues are pushing more people into those sorts of categories. The result can be anything from depopulation to despair. When the motion was written, I referred to the many unprecedented challenges that remote, rural and island communities have faced. We can now add a crippling energy crisis on top of those. That crisis hits not only households, but businesses and public services.”
“Last year, the Scottish Government’s research into the effect of increases in the cost of living concluded that “Rural and remote places in Scotland are more exposed to high inflation”, noting the high costs of fuel, food and transport. That is not, in itself, unusual: such businesses often operate on reduced margins; salaries are lower; and costs are often higher. What is different now is a palpable feeling that many communities are on the edge of a precipice. Instead of creating sustainable communities, it feels more as though the core resilience of many of our villages and towns has slowly been crushed.”
“We certainly wish her all the very best in whatever she chooses to do after this place. With all of the niceties out of the way, I turn to my motion. Although it directly mentions the Highlands and Islands, I know that most of the issues that we will talk about touch constituencies and regions around Scotland that are facing the challenges of remoteness and rurality. Some listeners might see them as little more than a list of grievances, the complaints of people who have chosen to live furth of the central belt. Some might see them simply as a variation of problems felt elsewhere, and therefore no better or no worse in the end. However, that is not the feeling on the ground in rural Scotland.”
“[Laughter.] However, I have served with John on committees, most recently the Finance and Public Administration Committee, and I know how diligent he has been in conducting the vital scrutiny required of MSPs. Last but not least, the cabinet secretary will be giving her last speech, too. I know that, because she reminded me of the fact last week. We have not always agreed—and the rest of my speech will probably highlight some of those areas of disagreement—but Mairi Gougeon has always been one of the more approachable members of a Government that is not always known for truly welcoming differing opinions. I and my colleagues would recognise that, if it were needed, the cabinet secretary would sit down with those with concerns and hear them out, and that was appreciated.”
“I know that colleagues from across the chamber will miss his consideration of and commitment to the issues that he was most passionate about. Beatrice Wishart, too, will be giving her last speech, and I particularly thank her for all her efforts on the CPG on islands, for making it the success that it has been and for the strong voice that she has been for Shetland. Our island communities face many challenges, and it is vital that their voices are heard in the chamber and in the corridors of power. Beatrice Wishart has very much played her part in that respect, and I wish her all the very best for the future. John Mason, too, will be bowing out after today’s debate. I would be hard pressed to describe him as a strong voice for our island communities, given his previous confusion about what actually constitutes an island.”
“In yesterday’s stage 3 debate on the Crofting and Scottish Land Court Bill, I talked about the loss of experience and expertise from this Parliament, and this debate will feature the last contributions that a number of members from the rural communities will make. My party colleague Oliver Mundell is stepping down after 10 years representing the Dumfriesshire constituency. Oli is a scion of the great Mundell political dynasty; I first worked with his father, David, when I was a relative newbie to politics and this Parliament was further up the road. Like David, Oli has dutifully served those he represents and has always stood up for their interests, regardless of how popular it made him with our Conservative whips.”
“I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests as a partner in a farming business. I thank all those who have signed today’s motion, allowing me to bring the debate to the chamber. With an election on the horizon, there will inevitably be a more partisan tone in the air after today’s proceedings, but I just want to recognise how often members representing remote, rural and island communities have been able to work together to get things done. I especially appreciate the work of all those who joined me on the cross-party group on islands that I established this session. There is scope for the CPG to do more and reach out even further, but I hope that MSPs and the many other organisations and individuals involved have seen the value of having a forum for island issues at the heart of the Parliament.”
“Rhoda Grant is one of those members who were first elected to the Parliament in 1999, and she will take with her a wealth of experience. As she has made her last speech in Parliament, I pass on the best wishes of all on the Conservative benches. It was also Richard Leonard’s final speech in this Parliament. I cannot believe that I have to say this, but I do not have a crush on Richard Leonard, despite what others in this Parliament—”
“Part 2 of the bill has resulted in a greater degree of consensus around the chamber. Concerns about resourcing that arose from the consultation were noted at stage 1. Tim Eagle and Ariane Burgess lodged amendments at stage 2, which are now reflected in the Government’s successful stage 3 amendment on a review mechanism for the changes. I welcome that approach. I turn to the contributions at stage 3. My fellow islander Beatrice Wishart successfully moved amendment 1, which was her last legislative amendment as a member of the Parliament. That was on the application of duties to owner-occupied crofters, which was a measure that we were pleased to support. Also standing down is another islander, Rhoda Grant, who has made a significant contribution to the bill with her amendments and who has helped to guide it through the stages.”
“Ultimately, there will be many areas of disagreement, and, in many cases, the bill has kicked those questions further down a very long road. Consultation cannot be a substitute for a clear vision, and that is where I think that the bill and the Scottish Government’s approach fall some distance short. Reform has also been slow going. In all reality, we could have dealt years ago with many of the issues that are raised in the bill, rather than squeezing them in under the wire in the very last week of the parliamentary session. It is my hope that the same sort of inertia on crofting reform is not a feature of the next session. The next Scottish Government, whatever colour it is, will need to be mindful of its role not only to consult but to actively make choices and to move things along where possible.”
“At stage 1, I observed that, although the bill paves the way for further changes down the line, that should not be an excuse for a bill that cannot stand on its own merits or make a positive and meaningful difference in its own right. The process of reform is essential to ensure the survival of crofting, but the crofting of tomorrow will doubtless be quite different. The process of evolution has been a major contributing factor in crofting’s continued relevance. As a result of the consultation on the bill and the lengthy process of discussions that predate it, we now have a considerable body of evidence to draw on for that future legislation. I would, however, guard against the assumption that there can be only one vision for the future of crofting.”
“Now for something different. I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of interests, as a partner in a farming business, a member of Scottish Land & Estates and NFU Scotland, and a crofting landlord. I turn to part 1 of the bill. It bears repeating that, although the legislative framework for crofting was first laid out in the 19th century, the practice retains an important role in crofting counties up to the modern day—one that is as much about society and culture as it is about land tenure, as others have said. The bill is, of course, far from the first piece of reforming legislation for the crofting sector, and it will not be the last.”
“As it stands, the system that we have causes confusion. My amendment 12 would ensure that any levy liability would apply only where both payment and the overnight stay take place on or after the formal commencement date of the scheme and that no authority can require collection of the levy during the protected implementation period.”
“How, therefore, can booking platforms and accommodation providers properly advise those making bookings about how much they will pay for the accommodation? We could end up in a position where people book a holiday and pay up front, expecting that to be the total cost, only to find out subsequently what visitor levy might be added on. A visitor could be unfairly caught by a charge when they might well not have made the decision to book a holiday in that particular location had they known how much the additional cost would be or they might have made a decision to book in a different local authority area rather than in the one that is introducing the scheme. We cannot expect visitors, some of whom might be from overseas, to be fully informed as to the intentions of a local authority at the time when a booking is made.”
“As drafted, the bill allows a local authority to charge a visitor levy from the date on which it decides to introduce the scheme, which can be up to 18 months before that scheme is actually introduced. That therefore captures forward bookings made for dates after the scheme is brought in. It seems to me that that creates an issue of equity and natural justice and that the liability for a levy should arise only once a scheme has legally commenced. The provision also causes legal uncertainty for accommodation providers and booking platforms. At the point at which a local authority decides in principle to introduce a visitor levy, no one knows the detail of how that scheme will operate. For example, they would not know whether the levy will be a fixed fee or a percentage.”
“Amendment 26 disagreed to. Section 3—Duty to make returns Amendment 7 moved—[Ivan McKee]—and agreed to. Section 4—Modification of existing visitor levy scheme Amendment 8 moved—[Ivan McKee]—and agreed to. Section 4A—Modification of proposed visitor levy scheme Amendments 9 to 11 moved—[Ivan McKee]— and agreed to. After section 5 The Deputy Presiding Officer: That takes us to group 4, on transitional provision. Amendment 12, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is grouped with amendment 27. Murdo Fraser: My amendment 12 is in a group with amendment 27, in the name of my colleague Tim Eagle, which covers the same issue but approaches it in a slightly different way.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 30, Against 79, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment 25 disagreed to. Amendment 26 moved—[Tim Eagle]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 26 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 25, Against 82, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment 6 disagreed to. Amendment 25 moved—[Stephen Kerr]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 25 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 26, Against 83, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment 5 disagreed to. Amendment 6 moved—[Murdo Fraser]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 6 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 27, Against 82, Abstentions 0.”
“Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division. As this is the first division of stage 3, I will suspend the meeting for around five minutes to allow members to access the digital voting system. 15:25 Meeting suspended. 15:31 On resuming— The Deputy Presiding Officer: We come to the division on amendment 5. Members should cast their votes now.”
“I lodged my amendment on camping sites and caravan parks because the accommodation that they provide is the accommodation that is most used by families who would otherwise struggle to go on holiday, who cannot afford to fly abroad or to stay in swanky hotels. Staying in a static caravan in a caravan park is the only holiday that they can afford. If we do not exempt such accommodation, the reality is that, in future, many people will not be able to take such holidays, because the additional cost of the visitor levy will put it beyond their means. I intend to press amendment 5 and to move amendment 6, because they relate to the important issue of protecting those families who, without such protection, would not be able to afford a holiday. I press amendment 5. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 5 be agreed to.”
“Councils right across Scotland are hard-pressed when it comes to their finances, and many of them are looking at the visitor levy as a way to fill the gap between the amount of money that they need to spend on vital local services and the amount of money that they receive, either through council tax or the grant that comes from the Scottish Government. They face huge cost pressures in areas such as care, and they need to find money somewhere. Therefore, it is not surprising that they are considering how they can raise the maximum amount of money from the visitor levy. That money will come out of the pockets of people who stay in accommodation.”
“I can, from my personal knowledge, give the minister several examples that I have come across of people who ran bed and breakfasts in their homes, letting one room on a short-term seasonal basis, who gave that up entirely because of the short-term let regulation that was brought in by this Government. They decided that it was not worth their while, and there was a shrinkage of that part of the rural economy. The danger is that the visitor levy will come in and add to the bureaucracy and cost of doing business, which will make it more likely that people will say that it is not worth the candle of carrying on with their businesses. I will address the broader point that the minister referred to—which Mark Griffin also referred to in his intervention—about leaving the schemes up to the discretion of councils.”
“Jamie Halcro Johnston’s point was that people from the Highlands and Islands who, say, have a sick child in a hospital in Edinburgh will need to travel. The City of Edinburgh Council has no incentive to grant a medical exemption because there are no people who live in Edinburgh who would benefit from that, so it is people in other parts of Scotland who will end up losing out. As Tim Eagle said, that would have a particular impact on those who live in rural areas. It would therefore be unfortunate if amendment 26 is not agreed to. I turn to the point that Stephen Kerr made about shrinkage.”
“That would create additional administrative requirements, which is something that we are trying to avoid, without having a clear benefit, and it would divert focus from locally significant issues, as is best understood by local authorities. As I said, local authorities are already able to shape the schemes and the associated reviews that are referred to in amendment 32. We believe that the amendment would be overly prescriptive and that imposing nationally prescribed considerations in such a way is inconsistent with the flexible approach that is being taken forward in the bill. Murdo Fraser: I will respond briefly to the points that have been made, and I will begin with the points that were made by Tim Eagle and by Jamie Halcro Johnston in his intervention, which we did not hear a convincing answer to.”
“The way in which the bill, as amended, is now configured will allow for a wide range of flexibility for local authorities to set the rates for different types of accommodation as they best see fit—that also answers the point that Murdo Fraser made earlier. If local authorities feel that there is a need to do that due to the nature of their local tourism sector, I am sure that they will consider that seriously. Amendment 32 would oblige every local authority to review those particular accommodation types, even when they are rare or where there is no evidence that the levy affects them disproportionately.”
“Section 21 of the act requires local authorities to review the operation and impact of visitor levy schemes, and they can consider any modification to the scheme, including the introduction of exemptions that are based on local evidence. Stephen Kerr: Does the minister accept that an unintended consequence of not putting such an assessment in the bill might be that that this important part of the tourism economy— microbusinesses, small businesses and single- room lets—will shrink and that capacity, particularly in rural and remote locations, will therefore be diminished, which will harm the tourism sector? Ivan McKee: I am sure that local authorities will consider that point carefully, because they understand the local circumstances and the business profile of such providers in the tourism sector.”
“Ivan McKee: As I have already said, the scheme is deliberately designed to give local authorities the ability to tailor it to suit local circumstances. Amendment 32, in the name of Stephen Kerr, would require local authorities, when reviewing their visitor levy scheme, to assess whether exemptions or reimbursement arrangements should be introduced for single-room bed and breakfasts, accommodation that forms part of a provider’s principal residence or single-occupancy self-catering accommodation. Although I recognise the desire to support small accommodation providers, the Visitor Levy (Scotland) Act 2024 already gives local authorities such flexibility.”
“We are not talking about a huge amount of people, and there is already the example of Edinburgh, which has proved the case that people might need to pay the visitor levy when they travel for medical appointments. That is surely a rural penalty. Given everything that we are doing to try to stop rural depopulation, it is concerning that the Government does not get that. I urge the minister to quickly reflect on that point and to allow for a national exemption. All that you would be agreeing to do today is to put an exemption in regulations. There will be time to chat after the debate, but an exemption should be provided for in regulations. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Always speak through the chair.”
“Amendment 26 would require local authorities and accommodation providers to establish whether each visitor was using overnight accommodation to attend a medical appointment. That might involve checking appointment evidence, including the sharing of personal information, and it would require new administrative processes, which would create additional burdens on businesses. Although I understand the reasons behind the amendment, I believe that these matters are best addressed through local exemptions instead of by imposing new national exemptions without the benefit of consultation or an assessment of the impact. Tim Eagle: I want you to reconsider that position. I am not sure that I understand what the objection is to having such exemptions, because it seems perfectly right to do so.”
“Does the minister accept that, if patients from Orkney, Shetland or somewhere else go down to a council area in the central belt— perhaps with family or somebody else joining them—and they have no option other than to stay overnight because of the limited transport, there is no possible advantage or reason for a council in Glasgow or the central belt to give them an exemption? That is why councils are not doing so. Does the minister think that that is acceptable? Ivan McKee: The key point is local flexibility and allowing local authorities the ability to manage the scheme as they see fit. I am sure that councils are perfectly capable of engaging with one another through existing mechanisms when there are issues that affect multiple councils.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what support it is providing to businesses facing higher energy prices and other increased costs resulting from the conflict in the middle east. (S6O- 05652)”
“To ask the Scottish Government what its position is on the importance of local decision making and local accountability in the national health service. (S6O-05633)”
“To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to ensure that Highlands and Islands Airports Ltd airports are as accessible as possible to all residents and users. (S6O-05598)”
“Some must deal with depopulation while others struggle to attract working-age people and businesses to their communities. Businesses in the places that I call home work on lower margins and struggle more to get deliveries or, in the case of the visitor economy, to attract customers. The blow of an unreliable ferry service and the resulting increase in isolation and economic harm are extra burdens for those communities to bear at a time when the Scottish Government talks in grand terms about making them attractive and sustainable places to live and work. Too often, SNP members have dismissed those concerns. Plenty of times, Opposition members have risen to ask a question about ferries and been met with groans from central belt MSPs, who simply do not understand or care about our island communities.”
“I add my thanks to Fiona Hyslop for all her work, although there are a few things that I need her to sort out before she rides off into retirement. One of the most important things that we have heard voiced in today’s debate is how communities have been affected year after year by ferry disruptions. Many of us—particularly those who represent the Highlands and Islands—have too often heard at first hand about the direct consequences of the Government’s failure for our communities and constituents. Perhaps it is easy to forget down here in Edinburgh how many of the communities that rely on lifeline ferry links are already disadvantaged. Such rural communities, which are generally remote and often on islands, deal with the challenges of geography, distance and low population density.”
“What we need—and what we already have the powers in this Parliament to do—is to give much greater control to island communities and to delegate more responsibility to the workers engaged with the services, whether they are the crews who operate our ferries and ports or the workers at Ferguson’s who are building our ferries. That is something that I hope that the next Parliament will do—invest in our communities, invest in our fleet, invest in our people and drive out, once and for all, the profit motive and the shareholder dividend from the provision of these lifeline services. 16:39”
“Will the member take an intervention? Richard Leonard: If I have time. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Briefly, Jamie Halcro Johnston. Jamie Halcro Johnston: I always enjoy listening to Richard Leonard speak. However, I tell him as an islander—I think that I speak on behalf of many islanders in the northern isles—that we would be worried about having CalMac Ferries run the ferry service in the northern isles. We do not want a public organisation such as CalMac to run it. Richard Leonard: That sounds a bit more like some of the old ideology that I was referring to earlier on. Finally, let me turn to the Labour amendment, which highlights that there is a democratic deficit here. It is not just about seats on boards; I have never believed that nationalisation plus a seat on the board is socialism.”
“We voluntarily put up a £21.5 million fund to help investment in farming. As I just stated to Willie Rennie, we are currently considering how the scheme operated last time and how we can make improvements. We are looking to make sure that there are clear instructions on how people should read the forms and fill them in. That way, I hope that the people who want to get the money will get it at the right time.”
“I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a partner in a farming business. The Scottish Government found itself forced into providing a drip feed of information about the chaotic introduction of round 1 of the scheme, whether through parliamentary questions, freedom of information requests or information that came directly from applicants. Does the minister intend that to be the case with round 2, or will he commit to proactively publishing—in good time—the sort of data on round 2 that I and other colleagues attempted to compel through amendments to the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill, which he and his party colleagues joined in voted down? Jim Fairlie: I reject the idea that the Government was forced into doing anything.”
“CalMac is also responsible for ensuring consistency of service, and the MV Alfred has been extremely helpful in that regard. CalMac will be able to provide the cumulative or comparative figures, should the member contact it.”