Aline K. Wong
Singapore
“The ENABLE (Encouraging Achievement and Better Learning) programme gives additional support to those who are not achieving their potential. Our curriculum has given more emphasis to critical and creative thinking skills.”
“Can I just take one more second on the waiting list because Mr Ahmad Magad mentioned that the waiting list is long? There are 18 SPED schools now which cater to about 4,000 children. Of the 18 SPED schools, eight have waiting lists.”
“Sir, I am sure the Member in his meet-the-people sessions has also encountered cases where some families pleaded for priority to be admitted on grounds of, say, the child's sickness, or that the mother is working and is unable to bring the child to school, or that the grandparent cannot manage to take care of so many grandchildren.”
“I think he did not hear what I say. For both of these families, someone who lives within one kilometre or next door and someone who lives right on the border of this one kilometre, or of any delineation you choose to draw, my point is that for both of them, this is their nearest school.”
“Principals, as part of their duties, are always alert to what is happening in the school. They have also been given guidelines, in the Principals' Handbook, on discipline and the code of conduct which is expected of the teachers and staff members. But having said that, all these things are not foolproof.”
“It will continue to stagger the rental increase to market levels for assignment of tenancies, subletting cases and for tenants who are renewing their tenancies for the third time. Shop lessees can also apply to convert to shorter leases to reduce the cost of servicing their mortgage loans.”
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“He said that we cannot simply transplant other country's experience into our local environment, which I agree. But if we have come short of ideas, it is the responsibility of the Senior Parliamentary Secretary and not the responsibility of the Members here to come out with workable ideas for hawking. If the Senior Parliamentary Secretary cannot come out with innovative ideas, then as I have suggested in my speech, let the idea be thrown open to the public. Have a pilot scheme. Invite applications from members of the public who have enterprising ideas, innovative ideas. And that, I think, is the beginning for a breakthrough in our hawker policy which has encountered so much deadlock for so long. But if the attitude of the Ministry is so adamant, I really have very little to say anymore. So with this I would withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendments stood on the Order Paper Supplement - Dr Ang Kok Peng: Administration (2) That the sum to be allocated for Head M be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead MA-01-1210 of the Main Estimates.”
“Permission is granted. So I understand, yes. I spent 10 minutes at the beginning of this session trying to dissect the hawker policy. I do not seem to be getting anywhere with the Senior Parliamentary Secretary and I indicated that for so many years Members of this House have been arguing with him and he does not seem to change his mind. So I spent 10 minutes in trying to sort out part by part this hawker policy hoping that we could come to some light at the end of the tunnel. On the question of the poor, the Senior Parliamentary Secretary just said that they are helping them and in fact they are doing them a service if they encourage them to go into alternative employment. May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary if the kind of help he gives them is simply to refer them to the Employment Service Department of the Ministry of Labour? Is that the kind of help that he is giving to these poor hawkers who wait and wait and cannot get an allocation? The second point I raised with regard to helping the poor is to upgrade the standard of service of some of the old hawker centres. His reply is that they have been spending $1.5 million in upgrading. My question is, is this amount enough? There are so many old hawker centres around that need upgrading and upgrading them will help to provide better services not just so that the hawkers make money, but so that the customers who go to these places will have a better, healthier and a more comfortable eating environment. But his answer is that if some of the older hawker centres are so old as to be unserviceable, well, demolish them! With regard to the question of modernized hawking, I think it is not a question of geese or swans.”
“Thank you, Mr Chairman, for allowing me to speak before I would consider withdrawing my amendment. Well, both the Minister and the Senior Parliamentary Secretary have observed that we in general do appreciate the work of the Ministry in keeping up the environmental standards in Singapore. But from the discussions, even in this very short session, I suppose both of them will understand that there are many areas still that have to be improved. As for this question of privatization, Members of the GPC in general support the idea of trying out this scheme, whether it is 100%, 75%, 50%. It is now up to the Ministry, together with the Ministry of National Development as well the pilot projects in the town council, to work this out. I am extremely glad to hear that the Minister for the Environment has given his undertaking to give every support to the Ang Mo Kio Town Councils to try out this idea. Let this idea be tried out first and let us worry about whether this whole thing will be extended nation-wide at a later stage. Let us take one step at a time. So I am extremely glad to hear this assurance given by the Minister for the Environment.”
“The relatively young who have the enterprising spirit, who wish to be self-employed or do hawking on a part-time basis, should be allowed to do so within certain limits of environmental public health. They may even have innovative ideas of how to go about the business. Allowing them to operate would be encouraging the entrepreneurial spirit and would add colour and life to our city. Already there are kiosks along the Orchard Mall where hawkers sell articles including food items. And Members of this House had mentioned in the past the colourful modernized hawkers commonly seen in the streets of big cities in other countries. So we believe that the Ministry could begin to think along these lines. In fact, could we not have a pilot scheme of issuing a block of new licences to those applicants who can come up with some bright ideas as to what they can do with the stalls. The number of licences should be kept small. But, Sir, we believe this would at least be making a small beginning at some innovative thinking in our hawker policy. Could the Minister please comment on this? Thank you.”
“Thus, money spent on improving centres is money well spent. Some of the older hawker centres are in need of upgrading in terms of basic facilities. They need a better design and layout, better tables and seats. Improving such facilities will benefit the public as well as the business of those hawkers who are barely surviving. The recent attempt by the Ministry to introduce disposable crockery in several hawker centres is another method of helping the hawkers to improve their services. Thus, in principle, we support the Ministry's efforts and hope to see such schemes being extended gradually to all other hawker stalls. Using disposable crockery actually helps the hawkers to reduce labour cost because they would not need that many washers. However, in implementing the scheme we would like to urge the Ministry to give due consideration to the specific needs of those who serve some traditional dishes. Plastic forks and knives are obviously not suitable for cutting certain types of food. So the Ministry officials should adopt a more flexible approach where culture, tastes and preferences are concerned. As for the problem of disposing the disposables, this is a question of management of the stalls. Apart from providing an adequate number of garbage bins, the Ministry should encourage the hawkers to share the costs of hiring a few attendants whose duty will be to remove the used utensils and clean the tables regularly. Practical problems such as these should be thrashed out before we rush into full-scale implementation. And in due course, both the public and the hawkers would realize that this scheme works to their mutual advantage. Let me come then to the third category of hawkers.”
“So if we adopt a more positive outlook on hawkers, we could be more flexible in our policies and we would be able to make some headway in terms of resolving the perennial, perpetual deadlock which has existed for years between officials in the Ministry and Members of this House over the question of hawkers. We should look at hawkers as comprising three major groups, each group calling for a different type of policy approach. These groups are: (1) the older generation of hawkers; (2) the presently poor; and (3) the younger hawkers. The older generation of hawkers have already been accommodated through resiting into cen- tralized hawker centres. This generation has no other skills and hawking has been a life-long employment. So it is right that they are allowed to carry on their present occupation. In due course they will pass and already they are having difficulty in obtaining assistance as their own children who have more education are not always willing to follow in the parents' footsteps. So for those grown-up children who still wish to remain in the food business, we should encourage them to operate in the modern eating houses or restaurants where market forces will determine the supply and demand of their services. By comparison, giving hawker licences to the poor, the handicapped, widows and others who cannot secure stable employment is a form of social welfare. Rentals for hawker stalls are heavily subsidized. No doubt there are some who make the business a success but there are many others who barely survive. Thus, we must not be obscured by the common belief that hawking is a lucrative business to the extent that we feel nothing more should be done to help those who are in need. We must also remember that the hawker centre serves the public.”
“We feel that a case can be made for privatization on a trial basis in order to see if better cost effectiveness can be attained. The Member for Ayer Rajah had in the past raised this question of privatization and mechanization before in this House, and recently we are very glad to learn that the town councillors involved in the Ang Mo Kio Town Councils are, in fact, looking into the possibility of implementing a pilot scheme of privatization. We would therefore appreciate some assurance from the Minister that he is looking into this matter in close connection with the Town Councils and that he himself would give every support to the idea and its implementation on a trial basis. Another point I wish to touch on is that some of the scientific and technical aspects of the Ministry's work, such as noise and air pollution control, microbiology, waste recycling and the designing of sewerage and drainage systems, can be done with the cooperation of the staff at the National University. Could the Minister please inform the House whether such cooperation is, in fact, going on and whether he has any plan to increase the areas of cooperation any further? I come to the problem of hawkers. The Government's policy towards hawkers has always been a strict one. This is necessary because of public health hazards and problems involving traffic congestion. Another reason is that if we allow too many young people to go into hawking, this will thwart our national efforts at restructuring the economy. So our strict policies are correct. However, correct policies need not always start from a negative perspective. Hawking, in fact, performs some useful functions.”
“Mr Chairman, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head M be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead MA-01-1100 of the Main Estimates.* On behalf of the GPC on Health and the Environment, I would like to start off by first commending the work of the Ministry of the Environment in providing a clean and safe environment for all Singaporeans. Some of my GPC members will be speaking on the work of the Environment in aspects such as drainage, noise control and waste management, while I shall take up several other issues on their behalf. Sir, with increasing population size and rising affluence, the task of domestic refuse disposal is going to take on an increasing proportion. The problem of refuse disposal in the HDB estates is made all the more serious because each unit of flat has direct access to an individual rubbish chute. This gives rise to a large number of collection points and makes the job of removing refuse much more difficult. The present system of garbage collection in the HDB estates is based on the division of labour between the HDB and the Ministry of the Environment. It seems to us that the process can be rationalized. The job of collecting and disposing refuse can be made faster and cleaner if modern equipment is used and mechanization will also bring about savings in labour costs. As we all know, it is so difficult now to engage labour in removing garbage because this occupation is obviously not very attractive even to the most lowly-skilled. The entire process of collection and disposal could also be made more efficient if it does not require coordination between the two separate authorities, that is the HDB and the Ministry of the Environment.”
“Before we broke off for lunch, I was on the subject of what kind of practical measures we can take to help reduce the examination pressure. Mr Chairman, I am aware this is a very complicated subject and in fact the Ministry has made a lot of effort in the past to help reduce the trend. In order to stay within the purview of the discussion of independent schools, let me just make one observation, that is, I feel that the independent schools, the principals and teachers must resist the pressure of social expectations for all or most of their students to excel only academically speaking. I think at the moment there is a tendency for students to take a large number of '0' level papers and 'A' level papers beyond what is really necessary for entry into JCs and universities. In this way, the schools, even including independent schools, may be stifling the creativity of the students, may be depriving the students of the time necessary in order to benefit from the broad-based curriculum and this is perhaps the kind of problem that the Member for Moulmein was talking about. My point is, I sincerely hope that the principals and teachers in the independent schools will resist this kind of social pressure or expectation that their students must be academic high-flyers. After all, the right educational principles must be put back in place. And I believe the independent schools would be a very good place for this kind of right philosophy on an all-rounded education to be put back and to spearhead this return to the right emphasis in education. And with this, I thank you, Mr Chairman, Sir.”
“To tackle this problem, Sir, requires something more than improving the terms of service for the teachers. Social attitude towards teachers or the social status of teachers has somehow to be put right. In the old days, teachers had very poor terms of service but they were respected by society. In those days, society placed a great deal of emphasis on the intrinsic value of learning and on the concept of self-cultivation through education. Sad to say, the emphasis today is on the utilitarian value of education - the paper chase, paper qualifications as a passport for well-paid jobs and comfortable living. So year after year, we lament the detrimental effects of the extreme examination pressure on our students and the entire system. But are we not going to really take some practical steps to solve the situation?”
“One question raised by these concerned parents is whether the Government will be tempted in future to even reduce the subsidies for State schools such as by charging tuition fees which are pegged to those charged by the independent schools, thereby reducing the present high levels of educational subsidies. Personally, I do not see the possibility of this happening within the near future. The Government has always realized that education is not only a basic social service but that it is a very important part of investment in human resources. By comparison, there is the possibility of the Government increasing the amount of subsidies to the independent schools, at least initially, to enable them to take off. If so, we may be accentuating the elitist tendencies which are already present in our society in spite of our system of meritocracy. Related to this is the question that the public again has raised whether the independent schools would be creaming off the best students and the best teachers and, if so, what would happen to the quality of the other schools. I think there is need for the Minister to clarify the policy on the selection of students as well as the selection of teachers who would be going to these independent schools. As the Member for Moulmein has pointed out, the Report of the principals places a great deal of emphasis on autonomy to be given to the headmaster or headmistress. This is rightly so. But of equal importance for the Ministry's consideration is how to train good and dedicated teachers who share the vision of excellence in education and this applies not just to the independent schools but for all schools if we were to raise further the general quality of education.”
“Sir, I would like to join the debate on the independent schools. Few people would disagree with the rationale behind the independent schools. They will provide diversity in our educational system, promote creativity and help us attain excellence in education. However, the foremost question in the mind of the public is that of tuition fees. This has been repeatedly raised in various dialogue and feedback sessions, and although the Minister and various Ministry of Education officials have given us their assurance that needy students who are bright will be given Government assistance in the form of scholarships and bursaries, a question still remains in the minds of the public, ie, what further action is the Ministry likely to take in order to ensure that there is enough of a good mix of students from various economic or social backgrounds, so that students who go to independent schools will grow up and study in an environment which is much more representative of the cross-section of society? Although the raising of tuition fees is likely to affect only the small number of independent schools, I am sorry to report that amongst some members of the public they are already getting worried about the possibility of the raising of fees even in Government schools. As it stands now, education in our primary and secondary schools is heavily subsidized and is provided almost free to all Singaporeans. Unfortunately, the wrong message that the public seems to be getting from various recent Government policies is this. Excellence equals independence. Independence equals privatization. And privatization equals reduction of Government subsidies.”
“Our economic growth must depend on the upgrading and restructuring of our economy and not on an ever-increasing inflow of foreign workers. Our total workforce is roughly 1 million workers. If we depend entirely on more foreign workers to achieve economic growth, each 1% increase in GDP will require 10,000 more foreign workers. This clearly cannot be sustained indefinitely if we are to avoid the social, economic and other problems which a large foreign workforce will entail. Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, in view of the time constraint, I will deal with issues concerning CPF in the Committee of Supply. 4.42 pm”
“To facilitate the transition to the levy scheme and to minimize the impact on employers and existing foreign workers, the levy scheme will only apply to new Malaysian workers recruited after 1st April this year. Existing Malaysian workers will remain on CPF so long as they stay with their present employers. Some employers are apprehensive that their Malaysian workers will job-hop to enjoy higher take-home pay with their new employers. I am prepared to consider various measures to discourage such job-hopping. For example, one possibility is to allow them the option to convert to the levy scheme even whilst they remain with their present employers. The levy is basically a pricing mechanism to moderate the inflow of foreign workers. It is like an import duty to discourage over-reliance on unskilled foreign workers. The Government will monitor the labour situation and adjust the levy if necessary. Foreign workers can only supplement our own pool of Singaporean workers who constitute the bulk of our workforce. Wage levels should therefore be determined primarily by our own internal situation and not by the marginal cost of employing foreign workers. The Government will continue to allow employers ready access to foreigh workers provided they do not become overly dependent on them. We must continue with our wage restraint policy in order to regain our international competitiveness. This new policy will not result in a switch to foreign workers from non-traditional sources. I think the Member for Whampoa is concerned about this point. NTS workers are only allowed in the construction and shipyard industries and as domestic servants. Outside these three approved sectors, there are hardly any NTS workers left in the economy.”
“They would prefer higher take-home pay from which they can save up for their own needs. Under the levy scheme, employers will have to gauge how much take-home pay they need to offer to new foreign workers to attract them to work in Singapore. The workers, on their part, will be fully aware that the CPF scheme no longer applies to them. Thus the new level of take-home pay will be determined by market forces. Some employers have compared the $140 levy to the employer's CPF and concluded that the levy is too high. This assumes that a new foreign worker will only work in Singapore if he gets the same salary as a Singaporean worker without having to contribute 25% of his salary to CPF. If so, his take-home pay will be much higher than that of a Singaporean worker. We should avoid this tendency to link the levy with CPF. The levy scheme and the CPF scheme are entirely separate pay regimes. Under the levy scheme, market forces will determine the new level of take-home pay for new foreign workers. The fixed levy of $140 per month favours the employment of semi-skilled and skilled foreign workers. Thus, if a foreign worker requires a take-home pay of, say, $400 per month in order to work in Singapore, the cost to the employer under the levy scheme would be $400 plus $140, making $540 per month. On the other hand, if we continue with the CPF scheme, the cost would have been $400 plus $185 CPF, both employee's and employer's, making a total of $585 per month. So the key question is: what is the take-home pay that is necessary to attract this particular worker to work in Singapore? For those who are semi-skilled or skilled, the levy scheme, in fact, reduces the wage cost for employers.”
“I would not like to see more financial incentives because you would be encouraging people to take double advantage of old and new policies. The Minister for Labour (Mr Lee Yock Suan): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to clarify the proposed extension of the levy scheme to all foreign work permit holders progressively from 1st April this year. Several Members have spoken on this issue. The rationale for the levy scheme is to narrow the cost differential between local and foreign workers. Foreign workers come from countries where wage levels are lower than ours. They are generally prepared to work for lower wages than Singaporeans. If foreign workers are freely admitted, the tendency would be for employers to rely increasingly on foreign workers who are prepared to accept lower pay. To reduce dependence on foreign workers, the Government has to impose a levy. This has already been done for NTS (or non-traditional source workers) and block-work-permit construction workers from Malaysia. The Government has decided to extend the levy scheme progressively to all work permit holders. Therefore, this is not a new scheme but an extension of an existing scheme. Eventually, there will be two schemes of employment in Singapore. There will be the CPF scheme for Singaporeans and permanent residents and, secondly, there will be the levy scheme for all work permit holders. Most workers prefer a higher take-home pay. The CPF scheme is a compulsory savings scheme to ensure that Singaporeans have sufficient savings to purchase homes, pay for hospitalization needs and still have sufficient savings for old age. The CPF scheme is therefore not relevant to foreign workers who are here only for a few years and would not be making their home here.”
“All of us must remember that as much as half of the population problem arises out of the high proportion of unmarried persons in the population. Ever since the matchmaking activities have been extended to those with "0" level qualifications, much social stigma attached to those activities has already been removed. But matchmaking is only part of the solution. The larger solution really lies in changing people's attitudes towards marital choice and the marriage relationship itself. It is most heartening to hear from the Acting Minister for Health himself that the right emphasis must be put back on people's motivations for having children. People must value children for themselves. Children should be seen as bringing warmth and happiness to the family rather than as a product of the parents' calculation of financial or economic considerations. If I may react very quickly to his announcement that he would urge his Ministry officials to find every way, every means to help women who wish to reverse the process of ligation. I would like to express my personal opinion on this matter but as a very quick and unprepared response. We must not forget that women who ligated in the past did so out of their own free will. They had taken into consideration their personal situations, the Government's encouragement, and made a decision. There are those among them who would have already benefited from priority registration for primary school children. Some others had already benefited from the waiver of accouchement fees. So in helping them to have a reverse ligation, I should hope the Minister would only stop at providing hospital facilities such as hospital beds for them to have this kind of operation.”
“They have repeatedly called for these provisions because, without them, it is well-nigh impossible to hold a job, do well in it and at the same time pay enough attention to one or two children, let alone have more. Thus, the full-scale response of the Government to their demands and requests is most welcome news to women indeed. We note, however, that quite a lot depends on the cooperation of the employers in matters such as providing part-time work, flexi-time arrangements, granting of extended no-pay leave, etc. While it is only fair that the employers should indeed have the right to decide based on exigencies of service, the question is how can women be sure that employers would indeed take a sympathetic view in spite of the assurances given by the Acting Minister for Health and various other Ministers. Also, will the private sector really follow the example set by the Civil Service? Already some women are becoming apprehensive that there may be a backlash effect in terms of a reduction in the demand for female employees, particularly in the private sector. So I believe, Sir, that the Government must demonstrate its will to implement these schemes with success, to demonstrate its sincerity in helping women to combine work and having a family and, by example, encourage the private sector to follow because if it does not, then the private sector would stand to lose in terms of not finding enough women to work in the companies and firms. Finally, even though compulsory counselling is introduced for abortees, the question of abortion is not yet resolved. But each year we know there are many thousands of babies lost through abortion. I think, Sir, this question of abortion must be faced, the sooner the better. A final final word on matchmaking.”
“By removing the disincentive against the third child in the priority registration of primary school children, we are doing the right thing. In other words, it will be effective on parents who place so much emphasis on the education of their children. By comparison, giving housing priority to families with three children who are now living in 3-room flats and who may require additional space, this incentive may not be as effective as we would expect it to be. Here, we should also sound a word of caution. The families, even given this incentive, should not rush into making a move. They should carefully consider the possibility of a drop in family income due to retrenchment. The recession should have taught us a lesson. By giving them housing priority, the Government cannot guarantee their continuing affordability. And still, there is the questionable assumption that living space is an important consideration for family size decisions. If it is, then how does one explain the fact that that those who live in 5-room flats already do not have a bigger family size than the rest? And if this incentive is actually meant to also work as a disincentive to discourage those who live in the 1- and 2-room flats from having many children, then why did not space constraint work on these families to limit family size in the past? So it is a questionable assumption to what extent is living space an effective influence on family size? Let me come quickly to the major thrust of the non-fiscal measures - the provisions to enable working women to have more children. For many years, women have been asking for more subsidized child-care centres, part-time and flexi-time work, extended no-pay leave for child care and full-pay unrecorded leave for taking care of sick children.”
“The trend has been well established and has been identified. Numbers matter. As for quality, I am of the opinion that parents with a relatively good level of education, such as those who have already got three 'O' levels and above, also place great importance on the children's education. This, on both counts of quantity and quality, the effectiveness of the tax incentives is more likely to be felt among this group and not among those in the higher income groups. If I could provoke the Finance Minister a little, I'd like to ask him how many years is he prepared to wait for the special tax rebate to take effect, and if after that number of years the tax rebate is not seen to be effective in raising the number of additional births among the higher income groups, will he consider withdrawing it so that there will be a better balance in terms of fairness? There is another point. Why is it that 1st January 1987 is set as the beginning date, whereas for every other financial measure, it is always on the day that the Budget is announced that things take effect. Could the Finance Minister please explain the rationale for backdating the incentives to take effect from 1st January of this year? The effectiveness of the population measures must be viewed within the entire package of incentives and not just the fiscal measures. If the Finance Minister will bear with me and since I see the Acting Minister for Health is also here, I would like to go over the other incentives. Let me first state that in the past, the primary school priority registration scheme was the most important deterrent to higher order births because of the value our population places on the education of children.”
“With effect from 1st January 1988, delivery and hospital expenses for the fourth child can be offset against the parent's earned income for tax purposes up to a maximum of $3,000. What we are doing is not only to allow some people to pay no income tax at all for five years but also to have the babies in Class A wards, in luxury. Surely, the Finance Minister could have thought about this and could have limited the amount of offsetting only up to what the average Singaporean would be paying for hospital and delivery charges, ie, in the Class B1 and Class B2 wards only. I think this would go down much better with the population. In talking about the overall effectiveness of these measures, even if the higher income families are now prompted to have a third child, the number of additional births would not be large enough to make a difference to the population size. Whereas if you compare the small size of this high income group with the large number of families where women have three 'O' levels and above, you would find this latter group would make more difference to the population size. For this large group, economic considerations in the past were important considerations for not having more children. Thus, the tax incentives are more likely to help them to decide on having a third child. So the number of additional births resulting from such decisions is likely to be much larger because of the larger base to be begin with. Sir, we must be concerned with the question of numbers. It is not only because last year happened to be the year of the Tiger that the number of births among certain population groups has gone down. Since 1982 we have been short of the number of live births required to place the population back to replacement level by 14,000 to 15,000.”
“For us, to have such a small population that we have now and will have, considerations for quality are equally important as considerations for quantity. We do not live in an ideal world and if we are convinced that the new population policy is good for the long-term future of the country, I believe a trade-off has to be made. Something has to be sacrificed. So it is not a matter of whether or not we should have the new population measures but a matter of how best to devise a set of measures that are effective while minimizing some of the undesirable consequences such as an accentuation of social inequality or, more importantly, the degree of perceived inequality. It is here that I feel that the present set of incentives has come short on the question of equity. The new set of tax incentives, Sir, gives a big advantage to the higher income groups. The $20,000 special tax rebate together with a special rebate of 15% on the wife's earned income, on top of the enhanced child relief which can by itself run up to $10,000 already in terms of offsetting, all these will result in some families paying no income tax for five years at all. Does this sound right? The highest income groups, perhaps those earning $6,000 household income per month, will pay some tax but these families will be able to absorb the entire tax rebate within five years. In other words, they stand to gain the most. Even if we accept that the higher income groups are better able to provide a conducive home environment and such like to bring up children and therefore they should be encouraged to have more, I feel such kind of disparity in treatment is going to create social resentment. How could the general population accept this? How could this measure go down well with them?”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I be allowed to join in the debate on the procreation incentives in the Budget statement. I would not have time, I think, to cover the other aspects of the Budget statement. The population debate has been going on for more than three years now. It is very difficult for me to understand why, after so much data have been released, statistics analysed, talks and discussions held, some Members of this House still do not grasp the essence of the matter. Population problem is a very serious matter. We appreciate the jokes. We appreciate the humour. But I believe that we really should come down to substantive arguments and criticisms, if any, of the measures proposed by the Government before we end this debate on the Budget statement. As a social scientist, I am satisfied that the Government has taken very serious consideration of the whole question and has utilized the best manpower we have - demographers and social scientists - in analysing the causes and proposing the right measures. May I congratulate the Government for having come up with a series of incentives which indeed address the balance that we have to maintain between the requirements for population quantity and quality. In the past, the issue of quantity versus quality understandably has upset some people because the undertones of such requirements touch on issues of equality and basic rights of individuals to decide on matters as personal as child-bearing. However, we should note that governments around the world have used policy intervention in population matters. Witness their selective immigration policies, the family planning policies as well as their policies on abortion.”
“Sir, would the Senior Parliamentary Secretary explain why there was this big increase in number of prosecutions of illegal hawkers in the last two years which were years of recession?”
“Could I ask the Minister also, in conjunction with the review of the road safety being done now, if he would ask the PWD to pay attention to the question of telephone booths along expressways. In this connection, would he not also ask the PWD people to come out with an alternative solution to provide appropriate locations rather than doing away with this kind of convenience to the public altogether?”
“If, in future, we were to introduce a law, hypothetically now of course, to make children support their parents, at least we will be making people do a good thing but even then, it is debatable whether we should compel people to do so. But in this amendment, are we not penalizing members of the family for taking care of each other by staying together? I think there is some contradiction there. Mr Minister, you have the final say over cases of appeal, and just now you said that if people still do not agree with your decision, there is still a recourse to court, which is a good thing. I would urge you to be very careful in implementing the powers given to you by this Bill, or the Act if it is passed, because you have to take into consideration the circumstances surrounding the offence, the implications, the consequences for the family, as well as the legal and social implications of this law. You would not be put in an enviable position in having to make these decisions because you are not simply managing housing estates, you will become a moral arbitrator. Mr Speaker, Sir, I am sorry that I addressed a lot of my comments to the Minister and not to you. 11.30 am”
“To make members of the family responsible for the act committed by another individual or even one member of the family, to my mind, may not really square with the concept of individual rights and obligations under our present legal system. In ancient China, for example, we have read about how families and even entire clans could be punished for a very severe crime against the state. But these were instances of treason or rebellion. Are we talking about severe crimes so that the entire family should be punished? Are we trying to make our legal system into that kind of system? I think in our eagerness to stress the collective responsibility of families for the behaviour of their members, we should not go overboard and make members of the family responsible for the acts of individual members who, by definition in the amendments, are more or less adult people above the age of 14 years. We speak of common sense. To make parents responsible for the behaviour of children who are still under their custody probably makes common sense. But are we serious in believing that parents can be responsible for controlling the behaviour of grown-up people, people above the age of 14? And how much less can children be expected to influence the behaviour of their parents? Again, I do not see much common sense in making members of the family responsible for the act committed by any individual who now is residing with the family. This brings me to my last point. We could emphasize the collective responsibility of families towards each other. I think we should never stop emphasizing this point.”
“In other words, the act which results in a death or maiming of another person, or causes serious damage to property, is not a premeditated act. And precisely because it is not premeditated, the law is not going to be an effective deterrent to people who might commit the same offence. Besides, people who live in high-rise flats, in private apartments, are as likely as people who live in HDB flats to throw out litter that could result in grave damage to people and property when they are in fits of anger or when they get drunk. So to me this is not a question of an abuse of the privilege of subsidized public housing, in the same way as if the flat is turned into a gambling den, a brothel, or some modern equivalent of an opium smoking joint. The severity of the penalty, I think, should also be viewed against the fact that outside of HDB housing, there is very little chance for the culprit and his family to be owning a home because, by definition, people who are eligible to apply for home ownership schemes under public housing cannot afford to have private housing. In other words, the severity of the penalty is depriving these people of home ownership when the HDB has the power to cancel an application where one member of the family or anybody listed on the application has been convicted of the offence and where the HDB has the power to evict the family or any person who stays with the family for having committed the offence. I think the Minister should really consider writing in a debarment period instead. Otherwise this is tantamount to depriving the family of owning a home for ever. A debarment period from applying should be a strong enough deterrent for people who do these things uncaringly or unthinkingly.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I am concerned about the amendments which have to do with the solution or the management of the problem of killer litter. Not being a legal expert or even trained at all in law, I am not sure whether these amendments will not amount to punishing a culprit twice for the same crime. But I would leave this question to the legal experts. I am also concerned about the question of the law taking retroactive effect. But since the Member for Rochore has already raised this point, I do not wish to repeat it. Instead, I would like to add a further perspective to the question. No doubt HDB has to maintain its housing estates as a clean and safe environment for the residents. It can do so by eliciting the residents' cooperation, by carrying out public education, or at the same time it can also pass rules and regulations. No one in his right frame of mind would be against rules and regulations which help to contain problems created by uncaring and uncooperative residents. Sir, we are not talking about whether someone who has committed this offence of causing grave damage to people's life and property should be punished. The Courts will take care of that. The Penal Code would have provided for that. The question is whether HDB should come in and evict the culprit, and not just the culprit but members of the family. And, as I read the law, not just members of the immediate family but anyone above the age of 14 residing with the family. I think the penalty, as contained in these amendments, is very very severe. First of all, most killer litter cases, as you read about them in the press, are committed by people who are engaged or involved in heated arguments, fights, quarrels, or perhaps as a result of drinking.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to say a few words also. Like the Member for Bo Wen, I do not see any pressing reason why the Board should be abolished. However, I accept the reason given by the Ministry of Health, ie, the need for streamlining. I think this is in line with the Government's policy of streamlining the civil service also. My main concern is that at the moment the Board has representatives from various civic organizations, apart from Ministry officials. These include people from the unions, from the University, from schools and also from the voluntary family planning association. With the abolition of the Board, ie, following the repeal of the Act, would there still be an avenue for the members of the public to give the Government feedback on important population policies? The second question I want to raise with the Minister of State is that, with the repeal of the Act and therefore the abolition of the Board, and with the kind of new population concerns that we have now, does the abolition of the Board signify that the Government is going to adopt in future some very different population policies? Could he please clarify?”
“In view of the replies given by the Minister of State and the Minister, I beg to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $384,284,680 for Head Q ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $55,000,000 for Head Q ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. The Chairman: I shall now deal with the remaining heads of expenditure in respect of which no amendment stands on the Order Paper Supplement. In respect of the Main Estimates, they are Heads B, C, D, F, G, H, S, W and Y. I propose to take those heads of expenditure en bloc. Question, "That the sums stated for those heads of expenditure which appear in the last column of the Schedule of Estimated Expenditure under the Main Estimates on page 25 of Paper Cmd. 6 of 1986 stand part of the Main Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 1986 to 31st March, 1987," put and agreed to.”
“Just one point of clarification. The Member for Anson heard me wrong. My complaint to the Minister was that the foreign husbands of Singapore women have a more difficult time in getting PR than the foreign wives of Singapore men. What gives the Member for Anson the right to think that he alone is thinking about the problem on a so-called higher plane? Did I not speak on grounds of equality? Did I not speak on grounds of emotional difficulties and stresses?”
“In fact, the number of children should not be linked to this special consideration at all. We are talking about the number of existing cases. This additional criterion does not mean that the present conditions would be made even more stringent. On the contrary, recognition will be given to the fact that the foreign spouses are contributing to our society through providing support and guidance to Singapore children. Perhaps as a first step we can restrict the criterion to schooling children who are already attending secondary school. By that age, the father would have lived and worked in Singapore for at least 13 and up to 18 years. By that stage also it is extremely difficult for a family to leave Singapore because the children's education would be greatly disrupted. Sir, I would therefore be very grateful if the Minister could consider this suggestion. Finally, since our basic philosophy behind the permanent residence and citizenship rules is that we want to remain an open society, we could absorb more talents into our society, ie, people who can contribute to our society. In defining talents and contributions, I wonder if we have not been using our definition rather narrowly, concentrating on those with education, skills or economic ability. But in view of our long term goal of becoming a creative and cultivative society, I think we should give due emphasis to those with talents and ideas in art and culture. Perhaps the Minister could clarify his stand on this question and inform us whether in deliberating applications from, say, artistes, writers, craftsmen, religious and community workers, will the relevant bodies other than the EDB or the MTI or the Professional Information and Placement Services, that is the PIPS, be consulted?”
“A second question that arises is the fact that it is more difficult for foreign spouses who are men to obtain permanent residence than for foreign spouses who are women. Sir, let us face it. This is a women's issue. Why should Singapore women receive different treatment from Singapore men who marry foreign spouses? One sometimes hear the explanation that we are Asians and in the Asian tradition, the women follow the men. So Singapore women are said to be free to follow the foreign spouses to settle elsewhere. But if we allow the children born in Singapore of Singapore mothers to be citizens and allow them to live and study in Singapore, are we not causing families to separate when their fathers have to leave the country? When we allow people to purchase HDB flats, so long as there is one citizen and one permanent resident in the family nucleus, are we not landing the women in very difficult situations when their husbands have to leave the country? The solution, Sir, is not, and I repeat not, to reverse the situation for children or for home buyers. Nor is the solution to impose the same conditions for foreign spouses who are women. To reverse the foreign policy is tantamount to going back on the principle of shared misery. Instead I would like to suggest an idea to the Minister to consider. If this idea is feasible, I think it may reduce the number of cases of family separation immediately. Can we not consider giving special consideration to foreign spouses who are men who are supporting schooling children who are Singapore citizens? Treat this as an additional ground for special consideration, over and above the normal requirements of work, skills, education, length of stay, etc. I doubt very much people will start having many children because of this criterion.”
“And since they have deep family roots and they have gone through school here, do we not stand to benefit from the investment in their education if we integrate them into our society by granting them permanent residence? If it is a matter of their not having the required skills, either because the primary school education or secondary school education is only a general education, I would suggest that they could be required to take up courses at our technical and vocational institutes before considering them for permanent residence. In this way, we would be reaping benefits from the return of the educational investment that we have given them. Again, the number of cases must be quite limited by now. A third category who deserve sympathetic consideration are the foreign spouses of Singapore citizens. Sir, it is a very good approach now that the Ministry is widely publicizing our policy that marriage does not automatically confer the right to permanent residence for foreign spouses. Still two kinds of questions remain. One, is not the present practice of giving short social visit passes a little too harsh, particularly for newly married couples? In the past, social visit passes were granted for longer periods, one to two months that can be extended up to a number of times per stretch. Now it is two weeks each time, up to a certain number of times each stretch. I think people need some time before they can finalize plans to leave the country, even where the Singapore spouses may decide to leave with their foreign spouses. They need time to find a new job, time to sell their houses, time to wind up their businesses, etc. By granting short social visit passes to the foreign spouses, are we not also penalizing our own citizens for marrying foreigners?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead QA-01 Object Group 1100 of the Main Estimates. Sir, I wish to speak on the immigration laws governing permanent residence and citizenship. I feel prompted to speak on this matter because of the number of cases I have come across in my meet-the-people sessions, also because of the tremendous emotional as well as other kinds of hardship which I find our Singaporeans are going through because their family members are being affected by these laws. I would like to urge the Minister to give his most sympathetic consideration to the following categories of applications. First, the aged parents of Singapore citizens. No doubt they may add to the burden of social and medical costs, but since hospitalization costs can now be borne by the children's Medisave accounts and since a great deal of social amenities are already provided by the community and by voluntary efforts, the aditional burden to the State is likewise reduced. In any case, I think the number of existing cases of aged parents remaining must be rather small by now and therefore what is the reason why they cannot be accommodated? The second category of applicants who I think deserve sympathetic consideration are the brothers and sisters who are the only non-citizens in the family. Many of them have literally grown up in Singapore, gone through school here and are either working or not working. A lot of them could have been born in Singapore were it not for the ignorance of their parents who went back to Malaysia to give birth because there the pregnant woman could receive better care from relatives. But for all practical purposes, these people have grown up here and, as I said, gone through school here.”
“On a point of clarification, Sir. I would like to ask the Minister of State whether he has forgotten about my request, ie, the minimal facilities that I requested for senior citizens in the senior citizens' corners, apart from the HDB void decks. Or is he saying that perhaps he would entertain the idea if we individually apply for permission to install these facilities. Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon( In Mandarin): Sir, if I understand her correctly, the Member wants a certain portion of void decks in HDB estates to be set aside for the aged people to gather together. I said that HDB since last December has been providing such facilities in new housing estates. As regards old estates where the RC advisers have received such requests, we shall consider them and, if necessary, we will raise them with the HDB.”
“If the HDB is worried about the costs of electricity and water used by the senior citizens, I am sure some method of payment can be arranged between the RCs and the senior citizens. If the senior citizens are given the responsibility to run their own activities, instead of just being participants in mass events, I am sure there would be a great spurt of creativity among senior citizens. The idea may sound very simple but you can see that I am struggling to turn abstract ideas of community and community development into simple things that work. The tricks are how to turn ideas into implementable actions rather than remain as guidelines which sometimes go on ad nauseam for community workers and which remain confidential under cover. Now, if these simple tricks work, these should be better tricks because they cost very little, while at the same time they meet the simple needs of simple people.”
“Within the average space of two, 3-room or sometimes 4-room units, the RCs have to run their meetings, hold tuition classes, sometimes students' art classes, library clubs and whatnot. It is very difficult for them to share the space with the senior citizens who may want to carry out their activities, not outdoors, but under some shade and cover. Furthermore, the senior citizens need a space to gather, not just in the evening, but also in the daytime. So I think the best way to encourage them to gather is really to provide them with a space, call it "Senior Citizens' Corner" if you like, right outside the RC Centre. In this way you can encourage the senior citizens to integrate with the younger people at the RCs. They would also be providing a watchful eye over the people, the movements around the RC Centres and the lift lobbies. I am sure the HDB, together with the Ministry of Community Development, upon the latter's request, can work out some design of a Senior Citizens' Corner where the type and the kind of minimal facilities that I have just requested could be installed. One often hears the argument that if you give such things to the residents, and if they are open to the public, then there is also the likelihood of vandalism. I personally do not feel so. It is not only just the teenagers who hang around void decks, who tend to turn semi-public space into territories, but senior citizens can also have in their own mind a piece of territory that they could watch over. I think the whole thing can work out fine if, as an instance of nourishing community development, they feel a sense of attachment and a sense of territoriality over the space that they will be allowed to use.”
“In our eagerness to promote the senior citizens clubs, our attention should not be fixed on size and number alone. In fact, as the groups become bigger and become formalized, there is a tendency for emphasis being placed on rules and procedures. In this way, the groups actually lose the spontaneity and the majority of the participants become rather passive participants in group activities. So my point is that these informal, spontaneous small groups on void decks should receive every care, should be nurtured. They are as much a form of neighbourliness and a form of community as the larger associations or clubs that we are encouraging. In fact, I would even argue that in as far as they constitute an uncontrived community, they are even better than the formal organizations. There is no need, in my mind, to hasten the formation of senior citizens clubs unless the Minister of State is prepared to grant them separate premises plus RC secretariat help plus whatever form of subvention he is prepared to give them. But I do not think this is the approach of the Ministry at the moment. The approach of the Ministry seems to be to let the RCs cater to the needs of the senior citizens through programmes that they can organize for them. However, the RCs themselves are facing some problems. Firstly, they are overtaxed in manpower and they also lack the financial resources. There are only that many newspaper collections that the RCs can organize each year or each month. In fact, they are also strapped by financial resources. Second, the RCs are also running out of space, especially those which are active.”
“Sir, I think every person in this Chamber is feeling a bit tired from the long sitting and the seriousness of the subjects under discussion. So, Sir, if you will allow me, let me begin on a very light note. I would like to request the Minister of State to give me a few things. First, a running tap. Second, an electricity outlet. Third, a toilet. Fourth, if he feels generous enough, a small locker where some barang-barang can be kept there. I am requesting them not on my own behalf, of course. I am requesting them on behalf of the senior citizens. To-date, there are 14 senior citizens' clubs formed by the CCCs at the constituency level and 37 senior citizens clubs formed by the RCs at the zonal level. Together, they have a membership of about 8,200 with an average size of 90 for the RCs and 350 for the CCCs. In addition, there are 42 senior citizens clubs formed by the community centres under the People's Association with a total membership of 8,600 or an average size of 200. Whereas the larger groups sponsored by the CCCs and the CCMCs may have more resources at their disposal, including the use of the community centre facilities, this is not the case with the smaller groups organized by the RCs. In fact, some RCs may not even be anywhere near the community centres. So they have to make do with whatever resources they have now. Apart from these smaller senior citizen groups formed by the RCs, there are many more small informal groups among the elderly who gather spontaneously, almost every day, at the void decks to chit-chat, to play chess, share newspapers or simply to watch the world go by. These small groups, in my mind, should receive some amount of attention and help from the authorities.”
“Sir, would the Minister not think it possible to devise some minimum legal or legislative protection of some kind for these foreign maids, in case they are seriously ill-treated by their employers? Is it purely a matter of the numbers involved, the small minority of cases that are being reported? Is it purely a matter of the difficulty of implementing this kind of law? Or should we not think in terms of the benefits to be derived from a legal protection, a legislation, which would teach our people what it means to be living in a really caring and cultivated society where people respect people as people.”
“Right now, each child care centre receives about $40,000 subsidy from the Ministry of Community Development in terms of the capital cost. Of course, these centres have to raise their own running costs as well as to find the suitable staff. Also, parents' attitude towards sending children to child care centres has to be changed. My point, I believe, Sir, is that more efforts in fact should be directed towards building child care centres. And since we are collecting this levy on foreign maids, it is a logical way of using this money for the building of child care centres. The second perspective that we have to adopt when considering the foreign maid question is the social and cultural implications of having a large number of foreign maids living with our families. I need not belabour this point. There are all kinds of problems of cultural adjustment on both parties involved, problems of children learning a different set of cultural values from people coming from different kinds of backgrounds, problems between husband and wife that may arise because of misunderstanding over the maids. In the long-term, it is no good for our society to have so many foreign workers living right in our homes. The third angle I want to talk about is the humanitarian side. Sir, foreign maids are also people who come here to work because of economic hardship or other reasons back home. They deserve our every sympathy and also our understanding. Occasionally, you hear about employers ill-treating the maids. I am sure this may be just a small minority of cases. But it does not do any good to our national reputation, nor any good to bringing up children to respect people.”
“So if this scheme of progressively reducing the CPF contribution rate is adopted, then the Government would have to pay special attention to the ability of the older workers to repay their housing loans. And I would like to reiterate my previous point when I spoke on my amendment on the Ministry of National Development, that it is perhaps time for us to encourage our population to start thinking about buying smaller flats. The HDB should also think of allowing the older residents to exchange their flats for an annuity. This is not just a matter for the HDB to consider. But I am sure the Acting Minister for Labour would consult closely with the Minister for National Development on these matters. Coming to foreign maids, I am of the opinion that foreign maids are not a good solution to our long-term problem of encouraging more women to go into the labour force. It is not and cannot be a long-term solution. In other countries, women have tried to cope by working part-time, by using more labour-saving devices, by paying very expensively for part-time domestic help, by enlisting their husband's help in housework and also by sending their children to child care centres. In Singapore, part-time employment for women is not so readily available and it is a fact that there is still not enough child care services. With the $120 foreign maid levy that our people are paying for each foreign maid, and assuming that there are 30,000 foreign maids now, the Government is collecting a total of $43 million a year. I feel that this sum should be directed towards building more child care centres, which to me is a much better long-term solution to helping women to enter the labour force.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker, Sir. I would also like to join the debate on the CPF and also on foreign maids. By pure coincidence, the previous speakers and also the last Member have touched on these two issues which I wanted to talk about. First, on the CPF. I would like to approach it from the problems of the aged. Since the Ministry is currently reviewing the entire CPF structure, I would like the Minister to pay attention to the question of the age of retirement which is necessarily tied with the age of CPF withdrawal. It is well-nigh impossible to separate the two issues. In the Howe Yoon Chong Report, it was recommended that the customary retirement age should be deferred as far as possible, from 55 to 60 and eventually to 65 years. It also recommended that the Government should set the pace by liberally re-employing its employees beyond the current retirement age. It would seem that the present effort of the Government to trim the size of the civil service is a temporary setback to this long-term strategy. But in my opinion, we should not lose sight of our long-term objective and therefore the question of retirement age should really be considered at the same time as the age of the CPF withdrawal when the entire CPF scheme is being reviewed. Unfortunately, this became a very emotional issue during the last general elections. The dust has now settled. I think it is time for us to look at this rationally again. The second point I want to make about the CPF and its relationship to old age and our old age problem is that, as the Member for Radin Mas has pointed out, with a declining rate of CPF contribution, ie, declining with age, the older workers will face some problems with paying their housing loans.”
“Sir, in view of the Minister of State's full replies, in spite of the shortage of time, I beg to withdraw my amendment. Amemdment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $455,781,740 for Head P ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $58,667,600 for Head P ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.”
“Finally, I would like to recall the Minister of State's memory again with regard to the recommendation of the Howe Yoong Chong Report where it was said that the teaching and research in the field of geriatric medicine as well as the development of sociological and psychological research on gerontology should be given top priority. Are steps being taken now to expand the recruitment and the training of medical and social science personnel to deal with the health care and problems faced by our ageing population? Is the Ministry closely working together with the National University in attracting and recruiting staff to do more research on gerontology? So if the Minister of State will remember, I have raised seven questions.”
“After all, if the patients have been ambulant, they would have gone to the Government clinics and would have obtained these supplies in subsidized form anyway. So what is the reason for not subsidizing these kinds of materials given out by the Home Nursing Foundation? As we know, the voluntary associations spend a lot of effort every year in fund raising. I think it will be far more effective if there is centralized fund raising, even for the Home Nursing Foundation, through the Comunity Chest so that the Foundation can concentrate its efforts in recruiting volunteer nurses as well as other kinds of volunteers in the community. As for the Senior Citizens Health Centres, again it was recently announced that two such centres will be set up this year in Kuo Chuan and Kampong Ubi. Since these two constituencies have had rather successful community health projects for the elderly, through their RCs and their Youth Groups, I suppose it is natural for the two pilot health centres to be set up in these two constituencies. My fifth question for the Minister of State is, what would be the criteria for setting up health centres in other constituencies in future? Since the CCCs, CCMCs, and even voluntary associations, are keen to set up such health centres in their respective constituencies, what kinds of help could they request from the Ministry? Question 6 is what kinds of services are offered in the Health Centres? Do they include the running of day-care rehabilitative services for the aged sick?”
“The other is the setting up of Senior Citizens Health Centres. The Home Nursing Foundation was set up in 1976 as a voluntary association, dependent on funds from donations while the Ministry is supplying some form of subsidy, ie, it deploys the services of some 48 nurses for home visiting and counselling services. The Home Nursing Foundation received quite a bit of attention from the Howe Yoong Chong Report on the Problems of the Aged. I understand that subsequently the Ministry has drawn up a concept plan. According to the Annual Report of the Home Nursing Foundation 1984-85, it was reported that 2,852 patients are receiving home visits from 48 nurses. The rate of expansion of such services appears to be rather slow to me. According to the 1983 National Survey of Senior Citizens conducted by the Ministry of Health itself, it was estimated that at least 8,400 elderly persons are semi-ambulant and 1,200 are non-ambulant. These numbers are likely to increase again because our population is ageing rapidly. So my third question for the Minister (he has just left, so it will be left to the Minister of State) is how many years would it take before the Home Nursing Foundation can provide for the total estimated needs of the target groups. The fourth question is that the subsidy received by the Home Nursing Foundation right now is simply in the form of salaries of the nurses plus the partial salaries of the administrators of the Health Services for the Elderly Department. My question is, should not the medicine, the food supplements, the surgical equipment and materials as well as the salary of the driver also be met by Government subsidy?”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head P be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead PA-01 Object Group 1100 of the Main Estimates. Sir, I would like to speak on the Ministry's Health Plan for the Aged Sick. As our population is ageing, the Ministry is following a two-pronged approach to provide for the medical care of the aged sick. One approach is to build community hospitals. The second one is to provide community based health services. As for the first type of approach, ie, the building of community hospitals, these are less sophisticated hospitals with about 200 beds for convalescent care and also minor surgical operations. It is said that the community hospitals would be located in the large population centres and that the first one would start to be built in 1987. I have two questions for the Minister. (1) Has the plan been drawn up with regard to the total number of such community hospitals that would be built? (2) Where would these community hospitals be located? The new HDB estates have younger populations whereas the older HDB estates have older populations. This trend may be accentuated in future, as our population is ageing rather rapidly and as more and more young couples move out from the town centre to the outer urban and suburban areas. So does this mean that the community hospitals will first be set up in the urban and inner urban zones? With regard to the community based health services, this appears to be our major approach in future because we want to encourage the elderly to remain in their homes with support from their families and from the community. So towards this end, two types of health services have been announced. One is the expansion of the Home Nursing Foundation.”