Braema Mathiaparanam
Singapore
“Sir, can I ask the Minister whether he would consider it a preventive measure, especially when foreigners come in to set up student agencies, etc, to do a background check.”
“Sir, I was in particular referring to a specialised kind of rehabilitation programme, because there are quite a number of offenders. Is there a need and, if so, would the Ministry consider bringing in some expertise in that regard? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: We can consider that.”
“Do we know the number of school children who may not possess a home computer? Is there any study done in this area? Are schools opening up their school laboratories so that, after school hours and on weekends, children who need to do their homework or browse through the Net to do whatever research, they are made available to them?”
“CouldI ask the Minister whether the criterion of having just two children is one of the deterrents? Is there a view on that? Doesthat criterionnot run contrary to the "Baby Bonus" policy where wedo not now put alimit on the number of children? If so, will there be any review?”
“Listening to the Minister's answer just now, I have one question on the role of MICA in such an eventuality where two companies, media giants, are talking about a merger. It has come across from the Minister's answer as quite a stand-offish approach. If that is so, what then is the role of MICA in discussions on possibilities of mergers?”
“I would like to ask the Minister what kind of approval system is there that you have such structures with barbed wires and nails to deter children from playing in the void deck. I accept that they should not be playing on the void deck. What is the approval process or is there one where the Ministry is concerned?”
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Every one of 296 lines we hold for Braema Mathiaparanam, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 1 of 6.
“The Chinese Language is now going to use a modular approach which seems a more approachable attitude towards the Chinese Language. Is it going to be open to the Indian and Malay communities to take it up as a second language?”
“Could I ask the Prime Minister, as we see this as the second language policy, whether it is possible for the Indian and the Malay communities to take up this modular approach to the Chinese Language?”
“She opted for Tamil because she heard that the Mandarin syllabus has gotten much tougher. Of course now, she does wonder if it was a good choice under this differentiated approach. The point here is that there are parents from other communities who would like to have this option of letting their children study Mandarin. The other concern that I have is over Tamil as a second language. I was very happy to hear earlier that the Minister has said that there would be a taskforce that would also be set up to look into the issues of what can be done where Tamil is concerned. From what I have gathered, the Tamil standards are considered by some quarters to be too high. There is also a concern about how other Indian languages are being offered, monitored and how the examination processes take place. Perhaps, these could be terms of reference. Lastly, Singapore's bilingual policy is one step in getting us closer to our cultural roots while we use English for administrative purposes. But with globalisation and markets that can open up in the Arab world, India and South America, we need to be more nimble as we acquire languages. Even as we focus on English and mother tongue, we need to include, in my opinion, a component in the curriculum that deals with multi-culturalism and diversity. Even as we sink roots deeper into our individual cultures, a comprehensive approach to multi-culturalism will make the Singaporean an individual who is ever-ready to appreciate other cultures, who will go into the world, wherever he or she is needed to go, without a trace of cultural imperialism, as Singaporeans whom we can be proud of.”
“So, enjoyment is very crucial to the learning of a language. Next, to some concerns that I have. The current bilingual policy is one that limits choice of language by ethnic group. I am asking if we can make it easier for perhaps the Malay and Indian communities to also study Chinese as a second language. Currently, prior approval is needed from the Ministry. While English is our administrative language, Chinese is fast becoming a language of social discourse and for business. In fact, in certain service-oriented industries, being Chinese-speaking has become a pre-requisite for the job. Let me cite an example of how this phenomenon takes place on the ground. I met an Indian lady from the Women's Executive Committee of a CC at a function, and was intrigued when she told me that their meetings are conducted in Mandarin and she depends on translations from her volunteer colleagues to know what to do as a volunteer. She is not unduly upset. Nevertheless, she is frustrated. If this is the kind of scenario that we have, then as our society is moving, this phenomenon needs both careful moderation and monitoring for social cohesion reasons, as well as we also need to really consider whether we can open up the learning of Mandarin to other ethnic groups and help them along. I would also like to cite an example of how this can be done. At Alexandra Hospital where I work, up to recently, the President of the Mandarin Toastmasters' Club was our Chief Pharmacist, Ms Fatimah Mohidin Kutty, who is an Indian Muslim and a Malayalee. Tamil is not her mother tongue, but she did Mandarin in school without tuition. She only had tuition for her "O" and "A" levels. Her two sons today, however, do Tamil. Both parents are not Tamil-speaking.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to join in this debate on the White Paper. Firstly, I must congratulate the Ministry on this initiative to form the Committee to review the Chinese Language curriculum. The recommendations to have a differentiated approach to the learning of the Chinese Language is most welcomed, on the premise that children can now progress in the language at their own ability level and at their own pace, to the best capabilities that the system can allow. Students who develop a love for the language can also opt for the enrichment modules. This is a sound approach, and reading the White Paper also sets one wondering if we could have looked into such changes much earlier. Nevertheless, what is fulfilling is the Minister's assertion earlier that these changes mean greater flexibility and enjoyment. The word "enjoyment" is precious, because it is great to bring joy as we learn a language. The word "enjoyment" is seldom associated with the acquisition of a second language. So it is my hope that we will not stray from the concept of enjoying the learning of a second language. Speakers before me have already outlined many ways of bringing joy into language learning. All that I will say at this point is that one sure way of taking the fun out is to introduce at too early a stage the rigours of memorising grammar rules and characters, and identifying sentence structures and word type. Children can recoil from the language learning but stay with it out of an obligation to the system an understanding of why it is important to go to school, love for their parents, teachers and tuition teachers. And they have not had fun through a demanding curriculum and workload or perhaps weak teaching techniques.”
“Sir, I was in particular referring to a specialised kind of rehabilitation programme, because there are quite a number of offenders. Is there a need and, if so, would the Ministry consider bringing in some expertise in that regard? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: We can consider that. The Prisons Department is always willing to try new programmes but, like I have said, there is already an outreach to them under this general 3R programme. Column No : 1245 SMOKING IN PUBS (Banning) 2. Mdm Cynthia Phua asked the Minister for the Environment and Water Resources whether the Government will consider banning smoking in pubs.”
“Sir, can I ask the Minister whether he would consider it a preventive measure, especially when foreigners come in to set up student agencies, etc, to do a background check. The second question is for those who have been convicted for molest or rape, what kind of rehabilitation programmes are carried out and whether there are repeat offenders amongst them and, if so, what is the rate? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, the conducting of checks on foreigners coming in to set up agencies involving children is something which is within MOM's purview. I can ask MOM to consider that. As for the other question, the Prisons Department has got this 3R programme which generally reaches out to prisoners to help them refresh, restrain and exercise responsibility. Whether it is sexual offence or other offences, as the Member knows, the Prisons Department takes this HUMANS approach to try to help the prisoners after they have served an initial period of confinement and they have felt the punishment. For sexual offenders, they are also taken under this wing.”
“Could I ask the Minister what rolethe MCYS can take where the SNOC is concerned in rewarding disabled athletes when they win back medals? Is there any possibility of a reward scheme in that perspective?”
“CouldI ask the Minister whether the criterion of having just two children is one of the deterrents? Is there a view on that? Doesthat criterionnot run contrary to the "Baby Bonus" policy where wedo not now put alimit on the number of children? If so, will there be any review?”
“Do we know the number of school children who may not possess a home computer? Is there any study done in this area? Are schools opening up their school laboratories so that, after school hours and on weekends, children who need to do their homework or browse through the Net to do whatever research, they are made available to them?”
“Could I ask the Minister whether the Ministry has any scheme of identifying children who would appreciate a computer at home and looking for the means to help them get that computer so that we bring more people on to the same level to level the playing field?”
“Could I ask the Minister how were the places for CCTV chosen, ie, Boat Quay, Little India and Newton Food Centre, and whether Geylang is also a place perhaps that CCTV might prove useful?”
“Listening to the Minister's answer just now, I have one question on the role of MICA in such an eventuality where two companies, media giants, are talking about a merger. It has come across from the Minister's answer as quite a stand-offish approach. If that is so, what then is the role of MICA in discussions on possibilities of mergers?”
“While they are more dependent on the kindness of their parents to look after their children, there is no grandparent relief scheme available to them either. This Bill has provisions for those who are married, divorced or widowed. This particular group of women is totally left out. I think we have to face the fact that some men would rather walk away from their responsibility of their unborn child and that some women would rather go the whole way on their own than put up with a marriage that from day one they know it is going to be a tumultuous experience. It is a brave decision to bring a baby to full term and face a lifetime of bringing up a child alone. We ought to bring this group into the fold under these schemes and not see it as a way of encouraging women to have children out of wedlock. There must be enough disincentives to do that already. We do not need to use this. Lastly, while the Bill spells out a whole slew of good measures, what is more important is how we implement them and how these are monitored. Eventually, it is my hope that the Ministry of Community Development, Youth and Sports will also view and relook at how society is making its decision on what we see as a personal choice and maybe, as work in progress, to relook at the definition of "family".”
“We can offer the same subsidies but perhaps provision can be made that they receive them on a sliding scale so that mothers or fathers will eventually return to the workforce and not see it, through their children, a potential cash cow. Thirdly, in this Bill, there should be a provision to protect the unmarried mother. She is a woman who falls into either of two categories - that she has become pregnant through an accident and is now with a child or a woman who has decided on her own to walk not down the path of the aisle and forgoes her boyfriend. Either way, she has made a deliberate choice; she has given up the option of an abortion and has decided to bring the baby to full term. Knowing full well the consequences and the stigma that is often attached to such a state, yet she goes ahead to walk this path because she cannot bring herself to abort the child or to be dependent on an unreliable boyfriend. There are such women among us. We have been told, from a recent newspaper report, that there are about 500 such babies, and 50 of such mothers have already formed a support group. I know some of them. They are responsible mothers. They do not play the victim role; neither do they play the martyr role. They are just trying to get by in a place that is not very friendly to them or their children. As such, this Bill does not make a provision for them to enjoy child relief even when these single mothers are working. They are not entitled to any Government paid maternity leave. And as we heard earlier, the Minister is saying that the maternity leave is a way to recognise the fact that the mother needs some recuperation. These single unwed mothers are in the same category, and they have to depend on the goodwill of their employers to gain some maternity leave.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill, and I have a few comments to make. This Bill is much welcomed as it spells out the new measures that come under the recent announcements and the processes to improve work-life balance schemes. The speediness with which these policies are given the momentum is much appreciated. There are three comments that I have to make. First, this Bill is still, as we have said before, motherhood centric and does not give enough recognition to the role that fathers play or have to play. As the Ministry of Community Development, Youth and Sports, it is important that the signal to the society comes clearly that fathers and mothers play an equal role in this aspect of bringing up children. And if we are truly concerned with work-life balances, it is important for employers to be guided well and to be steered into viewing family responsibilities. In some instances, the 12 weeks of maternity leave could have easily been packaged as parental leave with eight weeks' compulsory maternity leave and four weeks for the spouses to decide who is the better party to share that and to work it with the employers. The second point that I would like to make is the stay-at-home mums who have made a deliberate choice to give up their careers and look after their newborns. Their consideration here is that they receive only $75 in infant care subsidy as compared to $400 for working mums. This disparity ought not to be there as, in some instances, fathers and mothers are making a deliberate choice to make do with one income and not all of them may come from well-to-do homes, that it is a choice of luxury.”
“It is not a question of danger but it is a question of what is the message that we are sending here where child's play is concerned. That is what I am concerned about in terms of the approval system.”
“I would like to ask the Minister what kind of approval system is there that you have such structures with barbed wires and nails to deter children from playing in the void deck. I accept that they should not be playing on the void deck. What is the approval process or is there one where the Ministry is concerned? Mr Cedric Foo Chee Keng: Like Ms Braema, when I first heard of barbed wires and nails, I thought it was a bit draconian. But if she were to take a look at them - I think the New Paper did publish a picture of some of the nails that have been placed - they are usually placed right up at the ceiling, some two metres away from the ground. They look more like little studs than nails. Even the barbed wires are placed up the ceiling at the cross beams. They do not really pose any danger to the youths. From the Ministry's point of view, we would rather let the town councils make their own decision. Let them consult their grassroots. Let them have a collective decision on the ground.”
“May I please ask the Senior Parliamentary Secretary how many such cases have been approved on a case-by-case basis? And of these cases that have gotten approval, how many have become dependent on our social support services? In other words, have they been responsible enough to take care of their own families?”
“Could I please ask the Minister whether the Ministry has any structure to alert non-working spouses as to when their working spouses are going to withdraw all their CPF monies so that they can enter into a joint decision-making process on how to use the monies?”
“Sir, could I just know which are these VWOs, please?”
“In the light of that reviewing process, my question would be: as MCYS is the body that takes care of harmonising relationship, having an SDU and SDS, would it not then beentrenching class divides?”
“Mr Speaker, could I ask the Minister of State again, please?I understand the rationale, but are we then merging SDU and SDS? I could not hear a categorical yes or no.Are we or are we not?”
“Could I ask the Minister of State what is the rationale for having an SDU andSDS?”
“Miss Penny Low asked the Acting Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports if he will consider the merging of the Social Development Services (SDS) and Social Development Unit (SDU) so that the two organisations can share resources and programmes and reap economies of scale, while the members of both clubs enjoy a bigger selection of potential spouses. The Minister of State for Community Development, Youth and Sports (Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon) (for the Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports): Sir, I would like to thank Miss Penny Low for her suggestion. There are merits in her suggestion that if the Social Development Services (SDS) and Social Development Unit (SDU) merge, there would be economies of scale, and more social opportunities for members. Currently, SDU and SDS do work together atMCYS. The staffmeet to share strategies and ideas on how to encourage social interaction amongst singles. They also collaborate on various programmes which are open to both SDU and SDS members. Sir, 147,000 SDU and SDS members have married since the setting up of these two units. We are presently reviewing the functions and programmes of SDU and SDS in order to provide even better services to members and to achieve an evenhigher marriage rate.”
“Could I ask the Senior Minister of State on what kind of definitionare we working, wherePolice investigations are concerned, to establish whether one is a trafficked person? The second question is: what kind of training do our Police frontline officers have in this special area of trafficking where sex workers are concerned? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, like I have said, it is quite clear. If the sex workers come in voluntarily - and many of them do -on a social visit pass, ply their trade and arecaught,then,of course, if they have not overstayed,they are sent back. But, if a person comes in and said that she was brought in - she may have come in legally, butwas tricked into coming here because the agent may have said she is coming here as a maid, for example, andshe laterfinds out that she is working as a sex worker -we will investigate to see whether the agent has committed the offence of fradulently deceiving her into coming in. The third category would be if she comes, either voluntarily or tricked, andshe is threatened, or, in fact, sometimes even assaulted, into continuing being a sex worker, then the third definition "of being forced into prostitution" kicks in. Our officers in the Anti-Vice Enforcement Unit are very experienced. The important thing is that they will interview the sex workers, who at that point in time will not be under any duress orpressure not to tell the truth. SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT UNIT (Merger) 14.”
“Could I ask the Senior Minsiter of State how does the Police establish, during the course of investigations, whether a person is trafficked ornot? The second question is: in the case of the domestic workers who are later found to be trafficked, what would be the measures taken against the agent who first brought them in and was that substantial in regard to this particular case? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, the first thing that the Police will do when they arrest a sex worker is to interview her to ascertain whether she had come in voluntarily or whether she has been traffickedor brought inagainst her will or being tricked into coming in.These facts are established upfront in the interview. Like I have said, agents who are found to have trafficked women into Singapore, meaningnot smuggled in with the consent or the assistance of the sex worker, but either tricked or forced, there are sufficient provisions in the Act to deal with them. Indeed, when these rare cases have surfaced, they have been dealt with.”
“And, it must be so, because it is not to the advantage of anybody for any wrong profiling and a wrong matching to be effected, when the real criminal is still out there. Ms Braema Mathi talks about the young detainee. We work on the principle that every detainee for whom detention is justified would have to be profiled. But age is just one factor taken into account by the officials and the committee in deciding whether it should be a Detention Order or a Police Supervision Order. So the assurance here would be that if he is a first-timer, a young person, then there is a better chance of him being put on a Police Supervision Order rather than a Detention Order. The last point iswhether the record, when it is deleted, an assurance could be given for the deletion. The capturing of the record is by electronic means. So it is not a matter of returning anything to the detainee.The assurance I can give is that the integrity of the system is at stake. So when the law says that the records should be destroyed, there is really no need to tell the person his records would be destroyed, because if he is detained but no case has been made out against him and he is let off, the law mandates that his records would be destroyed. That is the assurance that we can give, that our law enforcement officers will follow and do follow the law. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee]. Bill considered in Committee; reported without amendment; read a Third time and passed. BUILDING CONTROL (AMENDMENT) BILL Order for Second Reading read.”
“They visited US and Canada to learn from the experience of other countries before embarking on our own.The database became operational in February 2003. Since then, one and a half years later, we have collected 38,000 profiles in our database. So really we are just building on this experience. Let me say that it is not to the advantage of anybody to be callous about how DNA is taken. If you look at the Bill, the amendment to theRegistration of Criminals Act taken by the Minister in2002, we elicitated all the safeguards, which include, eg, the obtaining of consent from, in this case, the detainee. If the method of taking the body sample is by blood, because it is intrusive, invasive, consent is needed. But if it is by buckle swab or by hair follicle, consent is not needed.Here again, the method of taking bloodis a simple process. It is a prick whichall of us go through duringa medical test,wherea lancetis used to take the blood. So it is not a terribly difficult or painful process. And the experience of my officers in taking 38,000 samples is that there has been no problem. But in theprocess itself, care is taken to ensure that the sample taken remains pure and not contaminated. That includes, eg,wearing gloves, ensuringthe identification is properly done with unique bar code system, to ensure that having taken the blood sample on the form, it is sealed in a foil, put in a locked box and transported to HSA, and in HSAthe chain of integrity of the process is also maintained, because only certain people would have access to it. So the assurance I could give is, having worked this system, it is a system that will pass muster by public confidence.”
“I am not saying any of them think this way, but it is also a reminder that they must not take this avenue too easily. The third one of course is the check. Because Parliament has to approve this Act every five years,Members would have the opportunity to say, "No, I do not want to renew it". So the Minister has to come here and explain to the House, give youthe situation, cite the figures to show that, yes, we still do need the Act. Hence, coming to the House every five years has a salutary effect. So let us keep to that. The next point relates to integration. Mr Ravindran talks about integration of ex-detainees. This is the same issue that confronts ex-prisoners. It is a wider issue as to how Singaporeans, in particular employers, take to employing ex-detainees or ex-prisoners. But Mr Ravindran would be cheered to hear that the recidivism rate of criminal law detainees is actually lower than convicted prisoners. So we are absolutely right that in terms of the salutary effect on people who go in and come out, it does remind them that having spent time inside and having come out, they do grasp the opportunity of freedom very carefully. [MrDeputy Speaker (Mr Chew Heng Ching)in the Chair] 5.38 pm The last big point is onDNA. Ms Braema Mathi, Mr Chandra Mohan and Mr Ravindranhave mentionedthis new process. First of all, let me say, Sir, that the process is not new. AsI have said, DNA testing has been used since 1991 but that was more in terms of matching what is collected at the crime scene with suspects' DNA. In 2002, we moved amendments to the Registration of Criminals Act to start collecting a database. We had studied the experiences of other countries such as theUK which was the first to start a DNA database in 1995. The officials actually went around toother countries.”
“We know that foreign triads are very opportunistic, they are quite mobile, they are very pragmatic and they go where the money is. Here is another reason why we should not circumscribe the use of the Act but give the Minister the flexibility which this Government, current Ministers and all Ministers before - have and will not abuse. The second point is the renaming of the Act. This is an interesting point why we have a temporary provisions Act that has lasted now 50 years, and previous officer holdershave come to this House10 times - not me,I have come twice - to argue for its renewal.I think there are basically three reasons. First is, what I have alluded to earlier,the educational effect of coming to this House -having to explain that beneath the calm of Singapore, we do have bad elements,not just normal criminals,but in particular criminals, syndicates, sometimeswith foreign links, who will want to destroy our safety and security. So when young Singaporeansread about this, they will realise that, yes, Singapore's safety and security cannot be taken for granted. We have a whole plethora of weapons inour arsenal, key of which is the Criminal Law (Temporary Provisions) Act. The second one is that it is a reminder to all of us when we come to this House every five years that what we are doing when we invoke the Act - I think Prof. Chin mentioned that -is not the norm. The norm is court prosecution. And it is also a reminder to our officials out there, the law enforcement agencies, that when they want to invoke the Act, they must adhere to all safeguards. They must not abuse the easewith which they think, or some may think ormay be tempted to think theysecure detention.”
“We have also been tackling money-lending syndicates with the CLTPA and, in particular, drug trafficking syndicates. I would say,let us give the Minister that flexibility, but always on the core principle whereby court prosecution is the norm and the basis upon which the Act is invoked is when witnesses fear to testify. That, in fact, is a common thread becauseas Members in this House - Mr Mohan and one or two other lawyers -who sit on the Criminal Law Advisory Committee know,it is an elaborate process where, in order to justify a detention, whether it isthe CNB or police, they have to build up and establish a case, more often than not, including witnesses' statements and listing out all the activities that have taken place and then making a convincing case not just to the Minister, who ultimately decides, but also the Permanent Secretary and Attorney-General. This, plus the fact that the Act is used sparingly and indeed over the years, the number of criminal law detainees has come down. Last year, it was 211. The last time when I came to this House in 1999when we renewed it - the figure given (for 1998) was 463. And before that, in 1988, it was 1,260. The fact is that the Act is not used willy-nilly, nor used as a substitute for court prosecution, but only when the grounds justify it. The fact that it is used sparingly, and the safeguards that all of us have shared in this House are effective, would keep public confidence highas to, firstly, why the Act is needed and, secondly, the correct and justified use of the Act. I think Mr Ravindran isspot-on when he said that the Act is a strong deterrent especially against foreign triads who may be surveying the land.”
“Ho Peng Kee: First, let me thank all the four speakers for making the points that they have made, which gives me an opportunity to elaborate further on the Bill and, in particular, to thank Mr Ravindran and Prof. Chin who strongly support the Bill. Of course, I note that Mr Chandra Mohan and Ms Braema Mathi also see the need for the Bill and, indeed, the personal experience of Mr Mohan in sharing about how over the years he has found the safeguards of the committeeto be somethingvery real. I think that is a very good sharing at a personal level. First, let me take the point about the offences under the Bill. I think that is an important point. As I have said in my speech, the requirement and the common thread under which offences fall within theBill are situations where witnesses fear to testify because of reprisal, and that is a key point. And I havealso given the assurance that where we can prosecute, we will prosecute because the court process inopen court is the norm. And that is indeed a core principle ofour legal system. But as all the speakers have said, there are situations where, particularly,syndicates are involved. So that if you have witnesses to come and testify against that person who goes in, there are peopleoutside especially underlings, who will harasshim, his family members and people who know him. That is a real fear. We should take it from that perspective and also from the fact that we have operated this Act for,as all of you have said, almost 40 years. And each time we come to the House, every five years, we explain why the Act is necessary in the context of the situations that have arisen and, therefore, Singaporeans know that we use the CLTPA for offences such as secret societies andgangs that are involved.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, thank you for allowing me to speak on this subject. I appreciate what the Senior Minister of State has explained, in terms of the rationale for introducing such a Bill, and how it is coming up again for review after five years. While I support the Bill, I have a few questions pertaining particularly to the DNA aspect of it. I bring this upin particular reference to the younger people whom he hasidentified earlier on as runners. Firstly, we do know that police investigations involve a certain degree of coercion and persuasion. In this particular aspect, I wonder how the younger runners - they are not yet offenders - or their parents are persuaded to give consent for a DNA sampling. I ask this because some of them could have made a mistake earlier and the DNA profiling continues for the rest of their lives. They may have even turned over a new leaf in due course. How would this DNA profiling follow them through?With that, I would like to tie up what Prof. Chin Tet Yung brought up earlier. Wouldit not be better to have a two-tier scheme of offences? Because the DNA profiling is very potent and when it comes to the younger persons, there must be a second chance given to them especially when certain offences are committed when they are young. The second point has already been mentioned byMr Ravindran and Mr Chandra Mohan. If the person is found not to be guilty, how is the DNA record expunged from his personal record? How is that scheme or method told to the individual? What is the level of reassurance that we, as citizens, can have, when we know that the DNA profile is destroyed? These aremy two questions and I hope I can get some clarifications. Assoc. Prof.”
“Sir, may I ask the Senior Parliamentary Secretarywhether the Ministry knows of the number of cases that the complainants took their cases to the civil court?”
“Could I just ask the Minister on this $23.3 million, how long is the money sitting in the system and is there a process by which, if it is after a certain period of time, the money could be channelled into charity?”
“Sir, I have three supplementary questions. Firstly, I am glad that the Ministry is tightening the framework further. The first question is that for the workers who have gone home, could the Ministry enlighten us as to how many cases have received some form of wages after they have been sent home? Secondly, - I am glad that the Ministry is thinking of an electronic scheme - would a GIRO scheme be possible, please? My third question is this. The Minister mentioned instances of tediosity where the Labour Court process is concerned, because it is a convoluted process perhaps in its own way. Could there be some form of discussion or dialogue to streamline this process, because while the workers are not being paid, waiting for a legal outcome, we could have a short cut through that whole process?”
“In fact, since April 2000, the ROS lets the applicant know the provision under which the rejection is based, and then he can make an appeal to the Minister. And, indeed, judicial review lies from the decision of the Minister. So, the process is in place. The third point that Prof. Chin makes, and which Ms Braema Mathi also makes, is whether or not there is a need for registration, whether or not the Societies Act has a place in modern-day Singapore, especially as we go full speed into building civil society. Sir, let me say that the Societies Act does have a place. It is because the Societies Act is able to weed out societies which may cause problems in the area of, for example, ethnic chauvinism or extremist religious tendencies or other illegal activities, such as gambling or secret society activities, that the rest of civil society can function. And that is a point we should bear in mind. It does not stifle. It, in fact, encourages and promotes civil society. And this in fact has been happening. If we look at what has been happening in Singapore over the past five to 10 years, societies have sprung up, and I have given Members the numbers. The number of registered societies has increased from 3,900 in 1988, to 5,300 in 1999, to about 5,800 currently. And not just in terms of the number of societies, but in the range of societies that has sprung up, very often fronted by good-minded, good-hearted Singaporeans over a whole variety of causes, from cats' welfare to nature society, to other topics. That is why I think civil society is working well, with this light-touch approach which is taken by the Registrar of Societies. In short, Sir, let us take this step. It is not a perfect step but it is a first step and is definitely an improvement.”
“I think we should not let the horses out of the stable and then start catching them back because, for certain topics, that would be very dangerous for Singapore. So, let us take this approach of having 11 categories. We will monitor, look at them and, if need be, over time, we can review them, not forgetting, like I said, that really, we are subjecting them to the current process which Prof. Chin has praised already. The current process is working well, but we are improving on it. Even if you are on the Schedule list, you are still a beneficiary of the current process, which is working well. Prof. Chin also asked why we did not take the opportunity to review the process by which the Registrar has discretion. I think that is how the Act is structured. In the first instance, the Registrar will have the discretion to look at applications. But his discretion is not an unfettered one, as shown by the track record. And the track record is important. That is why I have said in my main speech, look at all the indicators, our light touch approach shows that the Registrar does not take a heavy-handed approach. He bases his discretion on the Act itself. Section 4 of the Act sets out the premises upon which he can reject a society's application. And indeed, as I mentioned just now, the very small number of 10 societies rejected out of a total of almost 1,300 applications, ie, less than 1%, over a five-year period, shows that he does exercise his discretion judiciously and only based on the provisions of the Act. And very often it is a certain section in the Act that talks about the purposes, whether the purposes are unlawful or are prejudicial to public peace, welfare or good order, or whether the existence of the society is contrary to national interest that is involved.”
“I want to assure both Members and this House that every category was carefully chosen for reason where there is a need to scrutinise the application, whether or not, for example, it is the fact that it may have possible foreign links or the fact that a society engages in topics that may be emotive, like race, language or religion, or espouses causes which, from its point of view, it passionately cares about but if too vigorously pushed can also have proponents which will have a counter point and that may present problems. But I think it is important to note that being in the Schedule does not mean that you cannot function. Basically, it means that you have an opportunity to interact with the Registrar, which is the current position. So upfront, the Registrar, when you make an application, will have an opportunity to look at your constitution and your rules. Both parties' concerns can then be discussed and, ultimately, a consensus can be captured in the constitution. I think that lends for a better regime where, instead of letting everybody go ahead, and then, like what Ms Braema Mathi says, "Oh, after that, you can observe, you can scrutinise later on, and if any society is out of line, you hit the society.", that will create even more angst and acrimony. So it is better upfront to have a good discussion and come up with a set of constitution and rules where both parties are happy and then you proceed, not forgetting that if you do not do this, if everybody is just automatically registered, as Prof. Chin argues for, societies may then start functioning and initially, on the surface they may have what may look like legitimate purposes but, over time, these societies may do things which will harm us.”
“Like I have said in my speech, this amendment represents a quantum jump because it is the beginning of a process where you automatically register. In the past, the Registrar would be your gatekeeper for all applications and, in a sense, would treat everybody as a homogenous group and subject everybody to the same scrutiny. Now, when you are not a specified society, you are registered on the date when you submit your application you pay up, and you make a declaration that your objectives are not within those specified in the Schedule and you can start your activities straightaway. I think that will make a difference. Whether it is one or two months, the fact is that those who are raring to go can, upon making the submission, start their activities. In response to Prof. Chin, I would say this is something that many societies will look foward to. And indeed, going on the past two years' figures, about half of the societies registered over this two-year period - about 260 a year are registered, so we are talking about 520 - half of that, 260-270 would benefit from this new regime. So it does make a difference. The second point is whether or not the Schedule is too wide. We have chosen 11 categories. These are all carefully chosen. It is not a perfect classification. Neither is it cast in stone. And that is why the Bill in fact makes provision for the Minister by Gazette to amend the Schedule.”
“A case in point is the Roundtable. They waited under the old structure for almost a year before they could be registered. I would like to ask: if we were to bring the clock forward now, where would the Roundtable stand? Would it be the green lane? Or would it again be the slower wait-and-see approach for the Roundtable, a proven track record? Lastly, I feel that it is better to have an automatic "yes" or "no" for such societies. This wait-and-see registration might just push certain groups to register under the Companies Act as a private limited or company limited by guarantee and thus run the risk of not being monitored adequately by the same indicators as those used under the Societies Act. That could even prove to be more of a greater risk when national security of our country is concerned, as they might just not be on our radar as diligently. It is my hope that, as we move towards greater openness, the need for the Schedule may not really be valid any longer. I am heartened that the Senior Minister of State has said that the Schedule will be reviewed. But in keeping with Prof. Chin Tet Yung's point, it is time to trust the citizenry and do the monitoring by the administrators. Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, first, I want to thank both Members for speaking up in support of the Bill. They have brought up several points which are related. I will take them in turn. First, Prof. Chin laments whether this new regime will make a difference. In fact, he compliments ROS for making improvements all these years, some of which are actually in response to the call of civil societies for a more enlightened regime. Indeed, he is right. ROS has moved and currently takes a light touch approach to administering the Act.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker, Sir, for letting me join in this discussion. I would, firstly, like to commend the Ministry in its efforts to set up a provision for societies other than those specified in the Schedule to be registered automatically. This green lane capability, in terms of registration, is to be lauded and brings us closer to creating a more open society, which is part of the recommendations of the Remaking Singapore Committee. It endorses and entrenches the constitutional right of a citizen to get together with other like-minded individuals to form a society quickly to help make things better for society. Having said that, I have some queries that I hope the Minister would kindly address. Firstly, like Prof. Chin Tet Yung, I too feel how the Schedule was actually drawn up. Like him, I too feel that it is a very broad spectrum and it covers almost every civil society initiative. I would like to put it to the Minister that such a Schedule goes against the very principle and spirit of the amendments made under this Bill. I would like to hear what the Minister's views are on this particular point. If the response is that certain applications to form a society have inherent problems unto themselves, would it not then be better to register them under the green lane, that is, automatically, then watch their performance and deregister them if they are found to be deviating from the original intent as to why they have got started in the first place. On the safeguards that the Senior Minister of State explained earlier, can they not kick in even for those under the green lane and therefore every society is treated the same? By providing a Schedule, such as this, it actually gives the impression that things may not have moved very far for civil society groups.”
“Sir, I thank the Senior Minister of State for a comprehensive answer. I have just one follow-up question, please. At what point does the Police inform the family about the suicide attempt in the case of juveniles? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, this is done as soon as possible. Of course, whether doing so may hinder police investigations has to be taken into consideration, eg, whether any suicide note or medication may be destroyed or tampered with. Certainly, for juveniles, Police is mindful that the parents should be informed as soon as possible. DEREGISTERED AND SCRAPPED VEHICLES (Cash refunds) 24. Mr Steve Chia Kiah Hong asked the Minister for Transport if he will consider offering cash refunds as an option for motorists who have deregistered and scrapped their vehicles.”
“No, what I mean is the support given to the teachers. What kind of support does the Ministry give to the teachers? I think the kind of abuse that teachers face is important to understanding what are some of the problems that are going on in our schools. So, perhaps the Minister could elaborate.”
“There is another question about support given to teachers. Teachers have been abused by students.”
“The teachers, instead of being dismissed, may have resigned. What are the numbers?”
“Sir, could I just ask whether the current emphasis on academic curriculum would be applicable if we have very talented children from the special schools, and remembering here the very special arts programme, mime performance, etc? The second question is: have there been studies done on our current talented people and what is their background where academic qualifications in terms of 'O' levels, etc, are concerned? Because the Arts School is a very good programme.”
“I thank the Senior Parliamentary Secretary for his answer. But I am still not so convinced about this aspect of the GCE 'O' levels because Normal (Academic) students are equally capable of getting two GCE 'O' levels. In such cases, the Senior Parliamentary Secretary mentioned about portfolios. If the portfolio is of a higher quality than the academic achievements of the child, what then will be the position of the selection committee?”
“Could I ask the Minister the answer to part (c) of the Question, please? What assurance is there that once the firms come under the provisional scheme, they may just pack up, leaving some employers and domestic workers in the lurch over their contracts under the provisional scheme?”