Chan Soo Sen
Singapore
“In this way, we could generate, nurture and grow the sparks of creativity. But all these ideas will still need to have things like incubators and the various start-up support schemes in order to make them into reality. All these would need funding support.”
“The fact that children give parents some money to have a good time in casino shows how complacent we can be. Mr Chairman, I want to propose that we must be more aggressive in publicising the ills of gambling. Let us take the example of smoking. Real pictures of health hazards are shown on the boxes to deter people.”
“Thank you, Madam. I just want to say that the Minister did not quite answer my question about having a special Chinese language programme or, if necessary, set up a special Chinese language centre for those who are gifted in Chinese. Perhaps I did not make myself quite clear.”
“Hence, I propose that the Ministry of Education consider implementing a Special Chinese Elite programme. If necessary, establish a Special Chinese Language Centre and peg the standard to the highest level.”
“As the public sector is a major employer in Singapore, may I ask whether the public sector as an employer is willing to recognise the medical certificates issued by TCM practitioners and allow medical benefit claims for TCM treatment? If not now, then how about some time in the future when professional standards of TCM further improve?”
“I hope that in the next few years, more emphasis will be given to the care and support for the caregivers – how to offer them emotional support, how to give them counselling support, how to organise programmes to give them some relief from the daily chore of giving care so that at least they may have, say, two or three hours a day t…”
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“This provision was enacted 40 years ago. Over the years, the PA has grown in size with increased volumes of financial transactions. Like other statutory boards, the task of signing cheques and the operation of bank accounts can be delegated to authorised officers of the People's Association by the Board of Management. The Bill, therefore, seeks to amend the existing provision to give effect to this. Sir, I beg to move. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Mr Chan Soo Sen]. Bill considered in Committee; reported without amendment; read a Third time and passed. NATIONAL SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY BOARD (AMENDMENT) BILL Order for Second Reading read.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." The People's Association Act was enacted in May 1960 and, over the last 40 years, it has been amended on a few occasions. This Bill now seeks to amend the PA Act to facilitate the introduction of the new PA symbol, commonly called the PA logo, and to update the mode of operation of bank accounts. The original PA logo was introduced in 1963. This was the first logo which was on the paper that the Clerk has distributed earlier to all hon. Members. It was incorporated into the PA Act as the Second Schedule. After 40 years, it is timely to refresh the logo in order to keep up with the time. And the new logo, which is the second logo at the bottom of the page, has retained the essential characteristics of the previous logo, but now instead of our four circles, we see one continuous element running through the four circles. This represents the PA's mission of connecting Singaporeans from all ethnic backgrounds to promote active citizenry and multi-racial harmony. The vision is one of all communities bonding closely together, increasing the common space and strengthening the nation. The Bill also proposes to delete the Second Schedule to the PA Act and to make the necessary amendments, so that there is no need to amend the Act whenever the symbol is changed in future. In order to protect the integrity of the new logo so that it will not be misused, the penalty for infringement has been increased from $500 to $10,000. This proposed penalty is in line with that of symbols of other Government statutory authorities. Section 13(3) of the PA Act governs the operation of the bank accounts of the People's Association. Cheques have to be signed by two members of the Board of Management.”
“They do not accept recommendations from Members of Parliament. For the official grassroots leaders, they accept recommendations from the People's Association.”
“Invitations are sent directly to the grassroots leaders invited, not through the MPs.”
“We are not considering them for the time being.”
“Civil society activists are invited but not all, because there are so many of them and the Istana ground is limited in space. They are invited from time to time. For different years, we invite different groups. I do not think the Think Centre has been invited yet.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I think I have provided answers to whatever questions the PAP MP has asked Mr Chiam. The answer is "no". I think as far as the PAP political party's activists are concerned, they would not be invited if they are only helping the PAP in their political work. I referred to official grassroots organisations. These are the grassroots leaders appointed by the People's Association under the People's Association Act. That is what I referred to as official grassroots organisations.”
“Sir, we agree with everything that Dr Lily Neo says, except I would like to say the figures show a consistent downward trend. The number of cases reported: in 1997, it was 163; in 2001, it was only 92. Perhaps it is because we have been doing all that Dr Lily Neo has been telling us to do and, if we continue to do so, we are confident that the figures will continue to decline. Dr Lily Neo rose ---”
“Sir, time is running out. I will give Dr Maliki a more detailed explanation later. But I would say, very briefly, that it was only last year that the Children and Young Persons Act was amended to mandate, in certain cases, parents' involvement in the rehabilitation of children and young persons. So far, 20 parents of juvenile offenders in the Homes and 50 parents of probationers have been given such orders, and they have done their job. As I said, this is still early days. The Act was passed at the end of last year and it is hardly six months away. But we have already seen very good promises. Given a period of time, few years perhaps, we will be able to report good results. Involvement of the schools, self-help groups and the community is something that MCDS always tries to facilitate, and we will continue to do so. Dr Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.”
“Sir, very briefly, I am glad to report that the Chairman of ComChest, Ms Jennie Chua, recognises this problem. She told me one of the areas of weakness was that they did not have sufficient presence in Chinese community organisations, like the seventh moon groups and so on. The problem has been identified and she will come to work with us to see how to improve the funding of ComChest. There is always room for improvement when it comes to raising funds for charity.”
“Sir, as I said, if there are specific good grassroots leaders that any of the advisors here would want to appoint for good reasons, please let me know. We will look at it. We are ultimately pragmatic people. The rules are to serve us. The rules are here to give us good grassroots movement. If an advisor can convince us that by appointing an individual as Chairman, it will be good for his grassroots movement, we will listen to him.”
“So why not grassroots organisations? If there is no succession, there is no new life, and the grassroots organisations will not be dynamic. Sir, when these key grassroots leaders retire, there are still plenty of opportunities for them. There are many other grassroots organisation postings for them, if they still want to serve. And for the deserving ones, they can be appointed either as Patron, Honorary Chairman or Immediate Past Chairman. All these options are there because the People's Association values long serving grassroots leaders. We want to recognise them, we want them to continue to be associated with the grassroots movement, and we want them to come back to attend our functions with certain official position of importance, and they can still give advice to the newer grassroots leaders who may have taken over. Sir, I would like to summarise by saying again this is not ageism. It is for leadership renewal which is very important for any organisation. It will be good for our grassroots movement and we implement it with flexibility. If the advisors have good reasons to want to have specific old grassroots leader to serve one more term, there is no problem. We will look at it and we will probably agree. And also, very importantly, we make sure that deserving grassroots leaders retire with dignity as well as with a good title that they deserve. Mr Charles Chong: Sir, I would like to seek clarification from the Minister of State. The Minister of State, on two occasions, stated that the 65-year old age limit is for leadership renewal. But is he aware that the regulation prohibits not only the re-appointment but the appointment itself. This means that even before he is appointed, if he is 65 years old, he cannot be appointed.”
“Sir, to look at this particular issue, we have to see things in context. We are only talking about the Chairman, the Secretary and Treasurer of the CCCs and the CCMCs. About 17% of the current incumbents of these key posts are above 65 years old. This policy of compulsory withdrawal was for leadership renewal. It is not because of ageism. We recognise that there are many grassroots leaders who are still able to contribute, even though they are 65 years old. But the key leadership positions of Chairman, Secretary and Treasurer required more attention, more commitment of energy. Grassroots leaders have been asking why should we not have an upper limit on the number of terms that incumbents in key leadership positions should serve. In many of the associations, the Chairman cannot serve more than two terms, because they consider that it is important to have a dynamic leadership. PA had been considering the matter very carefully for quite some time before coming out with the decision of retirement age at 65 years old for the Chairman, the Secretary and the Treasurer. If we do not do that, some of the younger grassroots leaders would find that they have no chance, and would not want to come forward. Of course, there are Chairmen, Secretaries and Treasurers who are still very vibrant and still very alert at 65 years. And there may be certain grassroots organisations where, if the Chairman steps down right now, there may be no one to take over. Under such circumstances, if the advisor puts up an appeal, the People's Association will look at it and will usually agree. But, of course, we will do the necessary to remind the advisors that, "Well, you should consider succession after this term." Even our national leadership talks about succession all the time.”
“So you are saying the Opposition MPs are now irrelevant?”
“Since when did I say "bonding with the PAP"? I said anybody, regardless of political affiliation, could come and take part in PA's activities because PA is a statutory board and the community centres are public places. But when it comes to appointing people to lead these organisations, like all Government agencies, all Government statutory boards, Government will be responsible for those appointments, and Government has got the responsibility to ensure that the people appointed would have the ability to carry out the task that the agency is supposed to carry out.”
“Sir, I think I have not answered Mr Steve Chia's questions completely. So I shall answer his questions first. I did not say that the Opposition Members do not share the objective of, for example, social cohesion. I am just saying that Opposition MPs, by their nature, would have to oppose some of the Government policies, and that would include some of PA's programmes and the methods of implementation, and so on. In doing so, bearing in mind the kind of passion that I hear when this subject was discussed in the Committee of Supply, we risk getting the grassroots organisations from opposition ward into political conflicts with the People's Association, rather than concentrating on helping the residents improve their lot. That basically is my point. We, the PAP, are very clear about this point. Therefore, we draw a clear line. All Government programmes can be political to the extent that if we do a good job in any Government programme, for example, in education, or transport, we will get greater support in the next General Election. So if we do a very, very good job in achieving social cohesion, racial harmony, and we achieve better support in the next General Election, I would say that there is nothing wrong, Sir.”
“Sir, that is why the PAP MPs are the grassroots advisers, not the head of the grassroots organisation. We are only there to advise. So he got it right there.”
“In addition to just looking for jobs, I think the CDCs have also supported the CCCs in forming Inter-racial Confidence Circles as well as working with other bodies such as schools, companies and voluntary welfare organisations to form Harmony Circles. Mayor Zainul Abidin Rasheed of North East CDC introduced the home-stay programme aimed at promoting greater inter-racial understanding. And Mayor Othman initiated a South East CDC racial harmony youth ambassadors programme. Mayor Heng Chee How - I have not forgotten him - Central Singapore CDC, has harmony circles working with self-help groups and other community organisations, like the Hindu Endowments Board and Singapore Khalsa Association, to promote greater inter-racial harmony. In short, the CDCs have done quite a bit. Of course, some of the residents still say that, "Look, I actually still do not know about the CDC." And I think Mayor Zainul has expressed a certain amount of disappointment there. But I would say, keep trying. After all, we are only five years down a very, very long journey, and we have already done so much. In fact, through the various programmes, we have already touched the life of many, many Singaporeans. If we can touch the lives of even more Singaporeans, everybody will recognise the CDC. So, I would say, do not be too disappointed. It is still early days yet. Looking at the progress that we have achieved so far, I think we have done quite well. Give us a little bit more time. I think life should be kind to the CDCs. I think I have covered all the questions.”
“I must say that even for those services that are delegated from the Ministries to the CDCs, the CDCs have been doing very well. The processing time, for example, for public assistance cases has improved, partly because CDCs are closer to the ground, so they know the residents better. And partly also because they are closer to the ground, they are subject to more pressure to settle cases early, so the CDCs work harder. All these are to the advantage of the residents. During the current economic recession, like what Mr Zainul said, the CDCs have been very, very active in helping the retrenched workers, by augmenting interim short-term financial help with career counselling, job-matching and skills upgrading, retraining opportunities, and so on. In fact, I would say that all the Mayors come up with excellent ideas and they are all different. Maybe I will just list a few. For example, Mayor Othman Haron Eusofe of South East CDC piloted a training and employment programme for child care and domestic help to increase the employment opportunities of its residents in the informal service sector. I think that is very innovative. Mayor Teo Ho Pin has been actively introducing jobs from various companies, like Sembawang Shipyard and TIBS, to the residents of North West CDC, and, therefore, bringing the employers and the potential employees closer. Mayor Yu-Foo Yee Shoon has launched the South West CDC community portal and e-job messaging system where job seekers are informed through SMS and/or e-mail of their success in job-matching facilitated by the CDC.”
“So, they have a very, very wide range of social programmes as well as social service programmes. 4.15 pm The CDCs have also tried to achieve a good balance of grassroots leaders, professionals as well as other talents in their ranks. In 2001, which I believe is a very, very important year for the CDCs, the CDCs successfully took on a wide range of community and public services from the Ministries. This includes social assistance and social service schemes from the Ministry of Community Development and Sports (MCDS) since 1st April 2001, as well as the Primary Care and Partnership Scheme (PCPS) from the Ministry of Health. If Members recall, PCPS is actually a scheme where senior citizens from the lower income group, with a certain card, can go and see the participating GPs who are in private practice, so that they do not have to always go to the polyclinics. The CDCs, together with grassroots organisations, help Singaporeans, who missed out on the CPF Top-up Scheme and senior citizens who did not participate in the MediShield Scheme for the elderly, to sign up for the schemes. The CDCs also work with the CPF Board and the Ministry of Finance to administer CPF top-ups as well as the New Singapore Shares. I would say that CDCs have benefited from synergy on the ground, as well as with the Ministries, because of the participation of the CDCs. Because CDCs have been doing very well, in November 2001, we decided that it should aim even higher. That is why full-time Mayors were appointed, and the CDCs were consolidated from nine to become five, each with a population of roughly half a million or so. We believe that this is probably an optimal size. Being closer to the people, the CDCs have been able to offer a more convenient and personalised service to the residents.”
“So far, there are, I understand, more than 100 programmes being given such grants. With the establishment of the IRCCs, as my Minister has explained in much details earlier, we believe that there will be even more opportunities for inter-ethnic interaction in our community centres. I will now go over to the Community Development Councils. I think both Mr Zainul as well as Mr Charles Chong asked about the progress of the Community Development Councils. First of all, in the speech given by the Prime Minister in 1996, as well as in 2002, that Mr Charles Chong quoted, he sketched out the long-term vision of Singapore's community. There should be very good social cohesion, of kampong spirit, of the more successful willing to help the less successful, and as a result achieve a good feeling of rootedness. It is a very, very long-term vision, which we will all be striving for. CDCs were only established five years ago in 1997. So, of course, we still have a long way to go. However, I have to say that the Community Development Councils have made very good progress. It is becoming a local administration which is relevant to the lives of the residents. Since they were initiated in 1997, the CDCs have been building up their role as mobilisers of public, private and community resources, to bring about a more cohesive and harmonious society. They reach out to the more successful to help the less able, for example, through their many volunteers' programmes as well as joint programmes with the voluntary organisations. The CDCs also deliver community development programmes, ranging from arts appreciation to life-long learning to healthy lifestyle, to Racial Harmony Day, as well as Grandparents Day.”
“That is why PAP stays out of the community centres and we appoint people in charge to make sure that politics stays out of the community centres and the grassroots organisations. Earlier, Sir, I think Mdm Halimah also asked about the issue of involving Malays, especially younger Malays, in the community centre activities. We have to acknowledge that we would like to have more participation by the Malays, as well as Indian Singaporeans, in our community centres. After all the objectives of our community centres are to achieve social cohesion, racial harmony, as well as better communication. We admit that we have quite a lot of work to do still. But, we are trying. We have a few schemes to deliberately try to encourage more Malay residents to join us. The People's Association has adopted a policy to co-locate some of the community centres with voluntary organisations some of which are from the Malay/Muslim community. This is for greater synergy, and to encourage a wider network of Singaporeans to visit the community centres. For example, Telok Ayer-Hong Lim Green Community Centre/Pondok Glam - that is one of the co-locations; Kampong Ubi Community Club/Singapore Diki Barat Federation - that is another co-location; Singapore Hadra and Kampong Association, that is also in Kampong Ubi; Toa Payoh Central Community Building has got Majlis Pusat, and Pasir Ris East Community Building and the Association of Muslim Professionals. We hope that such co-locations will improve inter-ethnic interaction and cooperation. Mdm Halimah may also be pleased to note that amongst the youth movement, we have what we call Project Prompt. Under Project Prompt, if the youth programme can involve more than 25% non-Chinese, PA will give them a small additional grant.”
“In fact, we also work with voluntary organisations such as Retired Seniors Volunteer Programme (RSVP), the mosques, the Singapore Association for the Deaf, as well as the various self-help groups in realising what we are supposed to do in this IT masterplan. Mr Steve Chia asked a question on PA that any Opposition Member would ask. He asked probably on behalf of Mr Chiam and Mr Low, but I think both have asked this question many, many times, and the answer is still the same. He got it right. The People's Association is a Government statutory board. It is not part of the PAP. The PAP MPs draw a very, very clear line between our PA activities, as well as our PAP branch activities. We do not hold our branch activities in the community centres. I can assure him of that. We are very professional about it. And since it is a Government statutory board, members of the public can come and use the facilities and take part in the programmes, regardless of political affiliation. But, when it comes to picking the people in charge, the Government, like picking people in charge of other Government agencies, will have to look for people who have the same vision, share the same objective, in order to do this job of leading the various grassroots organisations. If we put the Opposition Members as the Advisors of the grassroots organisations, we can be sure that the grassroots organisations will be politicised. There will be no end of quarrels between the People's Association, who is supposed to be a Government body, and the ward which is with the Opposition. This will not serve the objective of achieving social cohesion. We owe it to the residents to ensure that politics stays out of our community centres.”
“This fact is more important than how much jurisdiction the Minister has over the People's Association. The People's Association's Chairman remains the Prime Minister. He usually appoints a Minister to be the Deputy Chairman, and at this particular point of time, my Minister and I are on the PA Board. But, based on history, even if we are not on the Board, PA will continue to perform what it is supposed to perform. So it actually does not matter. Secondly, on the digital divide which Mr Zainul Abidin asked, I would say that that particular budget item under the People's Association is to highlight PA's role in the National IT Literacy Programme. I think the House will probably know that the Ministry of Manpower and Infocomm Development Authority of Singapore (IDA) introduced the National IT Literacy Programme. The objective of the programme is to train 350,000 Singaporeans in computer and Internet basics, by April 2004. The People's Association has been given the role of training 90,000 people, out of these 350,000. So, we have been conducting IT courses in four official languages, targeting senior citizens, homemakers, grassroots leaders, those who have not been trained in IT before. We have about 20,000 residents who have undergone training at about 40 community centres as well as community clubs. We jointly organise these training courses with commercial training agencies, as well as various IT training centres. In addition, we also have two roving IT vans to bring IT classrooms to the community. On working with IDA and other agencies, I want to assure Mr Zainul that we work very closely with IDA and many other agencies.”
“Sir, Mr Charles Chong asked why PA should not be under the Prime Minister's Office, and he also mentioned that there were instances in the past when the PA was under other Ministries. In fact, this was so. Since 1960 till 1979, the People's Association was put under the charge of four different Ministries - from Ministry of Labour to Ministry of Social Affairs, to Ministry of Culture, then Ministry of Social Affairs, Ministry of Interior and Defence and back to Ministry of Culture. It depended on which Minister the Prime Minister appointed as Deputy Chairman. That is why in 1995, in order to avoid this switching of Ministries, PA was put under the Prime Minister's Office. But, then when the role of the then Ministry of Social Affairs was reviewed, and Ministry of Community Development (MCD) was formed, the decision was that PA actually had synergy with the roles of the new MCD because MCD and PA were both promoting social cohesion, racial harmony, communication between the Government and the community. Hence PA was put under the new MCD. So one way of looking at Mr Charles Chong's question is it really does not matter. Through all these years of moving, the People's Association continues to perform. It continues to come out with new programmes, it continues to move ahead, it continues to serve the community. Today, under the Ministry of Community Development and Sports (MCDS), PA and MCDS continue to benefit from their synergy. I feel MCDS is a good place to place PA. Mr Charles Chong asked how much jurisdiction the Minister had over People's Association. PA has actually been quite autonomous in their work, as long as they stick to the charge given to them by the PA Act.”
“What I am saying is that the objective of the evaluation is meant to decide, say, given this project which we are willing to fund, how do we measure its achievement at the end of the year. In fact, I would say it is very good for the VWOs to have a list of performance indicators when it comes to fund-raising. If increasingly, we look to corporates for sponsorship, the corporates would want to know that when they donate a certain amount of money, what would their donation add to the achievement of the voluntary organisation. Also, what are the indicators that we can give them so that they can satisfy their shareholders that by donating that amount of money, they have got all those social services delivered. And have the performance indicators actually provided the voluntary organisations with a good currency to communicate with the potential donors, to win over their confidence and, therefore, win over their funding.”
“I am confident programme evaluation will likewise be well accepted.”
“Sir, Mr Low Thia Khiang has asked about the programme evaluation system applied to the VWOs. The programme evaluation system is like management by objective as in staff evaluation. In the case of staff evaluation, the boss and the subordinate sit down together, agree on certain performance indicators, and then based on these performance indicators, the staff's performance is evaluated. With this, there is a good understanding as to what is supposed to be achieved, to what extent all these are being achieved. The programme evaluation system is the same thing. The NCSS works together with the voluntary organisation concerned and they agree on a certain set of programme evaluation criteria. At the end of a certain number of months, or at the end of each year, they will sit down and evaluate. The programme evaluation system is not directly linked to funding in the sense that it will not be as obvious as saying that, "Look, you only achieve 75% of your indicators and therefore, I only give you 75% of the funding". It is not like that. Performance indicators provide a common currency to facilitate communication between the NCSS as well as the voluntary organisation being evaluated. I do not know of any programme that was dropped because of the programme evaluation system as yet. Programme evaluation is still very new. I can understand some voluntary organisations may initially feel uncomfortable about the programme evaluation system, just like me when management by objective was first introduced in the civil service. I was a civil servant then. I also felt very uncomfortable. But as the years go by, I find that I have better communication with my boss on what I am supposed to do. At the end of it, I feel better; he feels better and misunderstanding is minimised.”
“Sir, what we do is to provide information to MUIS, and MUIS would advise the pilgrims. If MUIS requests us to go down and advise the pilgrims, we will do so. HOUSING AND DEVELOPMENT BOARD FLATS (Use as mortgages for bank loans) 5. Mr Tay Beng Chuan asked the Minister for National Development whether the Housing and Development Board (HDB) will permit HDB lessees to use their HDB flats as mortgages for bank loans as a means to finance their businesses.”
“Sir, the answer to that question must be "yes".”
“Sir, as I have said, we issued the advice in the year 2000 when we assessed that there was a threat of infection. That was one year ago. In 1999, there were no cases and we did not feel that it was necessary to issue a warning at that point of time.”
“2.7 is an overall ratio. Depending on the type of patients, the ratio is different. If it is acute admission patients, in other words, the more serious cases, the recommended ratio is 1:2.5; for short stay patients it is 1:3; for longer stay patients and geriatric patients it is 1:4; and for mentally retarded and chronic sick it is 1:5. So the overall ratio of 1:2.7 is well within range. 2.00 pm”
“The current ratio of health care staff to patients is about 1:2.7, ie, one staff to 2.7 patients. This is considered adequate based on current professional guideline.”
“Sir, unlike the beauticians, in this case, we agree with Prof. Toh. So the Ministry of Health is now in the process of completing the legislative amendments to allow for the declassification of hair dyes that contain diamine, and we expect this work to be completed some time in April. The appropriate announcement would be made shortly to the public.”
“Sir, I do not have those advertisements with me at the moment. Perhaps Dr Neo could pass them over and we would follow up.”
“If the advertisement is a general one, then we are not able to act on this. But if the advertisement says, "You come here, we can do a double eyelid on you", or "You come and we can put some injection on you", then it is a different matter. We will investigate.”
“We are unable to act unless we know specifically that the surgeries are done. If it is advertisements, and we read about them and suspect that such surgeries may have been done, then investigations can be initiated. But, essentially, as I have just said, we need specific information in order to be able to act effectively.”
“If in doubt, he can always call the department and ask. We need details.”
“Sir, it is not very clear what procedures the hon. Member is talking about - no cutting, no stitching.”
“Sir, I think we can also agree with everything that Dr Lily Neo says, except that the beauticians are not free to advertise, lure and treat customers for unauthorised surgery. So, we would like to advise members of the public that the Ministry takes a very, very serious view of such activities: that cosmetic surgery and surgical procedures that require cutting, stitching and putting in of implants should only be done by qualified doctors and surgeons. And the public would not be lured, unless they want to be lured. The public is therefore advised that they should not subject themselves to the risks of such procedures being undertaken by unqualified persons. Like what Dr Lily Neo says, unqualified persons who perform such surgeries would be committing an offence under the Medical Registration Act. And, if these procedures are performed in places not authorised for such procedures, they would be committing an offence under the Private Hospitals and Medical Clinics Act. If any member of the public is aware of such procedures being performed, either by unauthorised persons or in unauthorised places, I would urge them to report to the Ministry of Health's Licensing and Accreditation Department at telephone number 3252612.”
“Sir, it is very easy to answer Dr Lily Neo's questions. We agree with everything that she says. We agree that her 10 tenets are very useful guidelines. We will try to incorporate them into our plans. We also agree that we should ensure that for the professionals, an adequate number of them should be trained and made available, including nurses as well as therapists. As far as nurses are concerned, we would like to say that, currently, we have an Advanced Diploma in Gerontology and Community Health Nursing available at the Nanyang Polytechnic. Today, we have a core group of 300 registered nurses who have received formal post-basic training in this subject, and we expect to train a further 90 nurses in these two areas in the next four years. We also agree that there is a need to train community health workers, including family members in elderly care. And in fact, Dr Lily Neo will probably know that we currently have a project working with her Kim Seng community centre grassroots leaders to train family members and, so far, 62 volunteer nurses have been trained to undertake such training programmes. We intend to expand the scope to work with more voluntary organisations as well as grassroots organisations to train our community so that they are better equipped to care for a more aged population.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, whether the employers recognise TCM MCs or whether patients want to see the TCM practitioners would depend very much on the practitioners themselves. If they continuously raise their standard of practice, the issue of recognition will be resolved as a matter of time. I understand the aspiration of the TCM practitioners that the Government and the employers will recognise their receipts and Medical Certificates. I would appeal to them to support this Bill, help Ministry of Health implement it well, and upgrade their professional standard and image. I believe the day will come. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Mr Chan Soo Sen]. Bill considered in Committee; reported without amendment; read a Third time and passed. FAMILY-FRIENDLY WORK PRACTICES (Motion) 1.59 pm”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, as I mentioned earlier, there is a big market out there for TCM treatment. There are people who just somehow prefer to see TCM practitioners for certain conditions. This is not confined only to the older people. For example, I know young people who injured themselves while playing golf telling me that they go for acupuncture. Also, because of the increasing popularity of TCM treatment even in western countries, some of our people are beginning to feel that TCM is a good alternative form of medicine. Just imagine there is no need to take medicine, just go for tui na and acupuncture. There are people who prefer that. So there is really a market for TCM treatment, notwithstanding the fact that their Medical Certificates are not recognised by the Government.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, at the moment the Government does not recognise an MC issued by a TCM practitioner. I do not know when the Government as an employer will eventually recognise it. It all depends on how the TCM practitioners raise their professional standard sufficiently, to a level where we feel confident we can consider that particular question. The earlier the TCM community raise their standard, the earlier this question can be considered. As to the question of minimum entry requirements for attending TCM courses, we now have TCM courses conducted by two of our biggest TCM organisations. One is in Chung Hwa Free Clinic and the other one is in the Public Free Clinic. After they have attended a six-year course, the trainees are awarded diplomas. Hence it is in order to peg the entry requirement to be similar to that of the polytechnics, which also offer diploma courses.”
“The institutions training these TCM practitioners are generally satisfied with the quality of candidates seeking admission to their institutes. The quality has been going up. Some trainees have university degrees. I have come across two doctors amongst the trainees. They felt learning about Traditional Chinese Medicine could help in their practice. With the introduction of this Bill giving TCM more status, I feel that the quality of trainees going for TCM courses will get even better. But we cannot achieve everything all at once. The TCM training course duration has already been raised from five-year part-time to six-year part-time. One of the TCM organisations is introducing a three- year full-time course jointly with the Nanjing TCM University. These are all signs of progress. With this Bill, I feel that the progress will be even faster and TCM will have a better future in Singapore.”
“When the professional standard of our TCM practitioners has arrived, more and more employers will recognise their Medical Certificates. The Government cannot legislate to compel them to recognise these Medical Certificates. The decision should be taken by the employers. I feel that the most important task for the TCM community now is to upgrade their professional standard and image, not only to the satisfaction of the patients but also to the satisfaction of the employers. When this is achieved, the issue of MC and receipt recognition will resolve itself. Mr Ang Mong Seng asked whether the Government and restructured hospitals would accept referrals by TCM practitioners for emergency treatment. I must say that this problem does not exist at all. If a patient is seriously ill, whether or not he has a referral letter by a western doctor or a Chinese physician, he would be attended to by the hospitals. Mr Ang Mong Seng and Mr Tay Beng Chuan have also asked about licensing requirements to sell Chinese herbs. Regulating sales of Chinese medical products does not come under this Bill. This comes under the Medicines Act. Under the Medicines Act, TCM retail shops do not need a licence to sell approved TCM products. When Ministry of Health considers whether a certain TCM product is approved for sale in Singapore, we are concerned primarily with harmful or toxic ingredients, mixing of Chinese and Western medical ingredients, and excessive claims on the effect. There will be no change as this Bill has no impact on the existing regulations. Finally, Dr Tan Cheng Bock asked about the admission criteria for candidates to be enrolled at training institutes for TCM practitioners. This has been set to be the same as entry requirement to Polytechnics.”
“If all parties work together, we can start offering the herbal dispensers' training course in one or two years' time. This will make important contributions towards lifting the service standards of TCM retail shops in Singapore. Mr Ang Mong Seng touched on the professional image and code of conduct for TCM practitioners. Dr Tan Cheng Bock also raised similar concerns. Under this Bill, the TCM Practitioners Board will consist of well-respected TCM practitioners as well as some western doctors. They will be in good positions to work out the code of conduct for the TCM practitioners. I hope the TCM Practitioners Board come out with some formal guidelines so that the registered TCM practitioners can refer to. I do not know whether they would go into details such as male practitioners to put on a tie and dressed up as handsomely as Dr Tan Cheng Bock, while the lady practitioners dress up as beautifully as Dr Lily Neo, as observed by Mr Ang Mong Seng. It is up to the Board to decide. However, the Board can supervise and take disciplinary actions against practitioners who conduct themselves unprofessionally. Mr Ang Mong Seng and Dr Tan Cheng Bock both touched on the recognition of Medical Certificates (MCs) and receipts issued by TCM practitioners for the purpose of employee medical benefits. I feel that it is premature to talk about this matter at this point of time. Whether or not the employers will recognise the Medical Certificates issued by TCM practitioners and reimburse the cost of TCM treatment, will depend on whether the employers are satisfied that the Chinese physicians are of high professional standing, and whether the employers are comfortable with the authority and authenticity of these documents.”
“As Mr Tay Beng Chuan has mentioned, if the fees are too expensive, the patients may opt to see the western doctors instead. I am sure TCM practitioners will not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs by arbitrarily raising their fees. If there is a need, the Singapore Traditional Chinese Medicine Organisations Co-ordinating Committee (STCMOCC), the Committee representing mainstream TCM community could, like the Singapore Medical Association (SMA) for the doctors, provide fees guidelines for various treatments. If a patient feels that he has been over-charged, he can complain to the Traditional Chinese Medicine Practitioners Board, Consumers' Association of Singapore (CASE), or to the courts. These are channels through which they could seek redress. Mr Tay Beng Chuan has also raised the issue concerning training of herbal dispensers working in TCM retail shops. The Government has no immediate plans to make it compulsory for TCM retail shops to engage a certain number of registered TCM practitioners or herbal dispensers. Even if we do so eventually, it would be done in stages. However, it is true that the training standards of herbal dispensers working in TCM retail shops vary considerably. It is necessary to upgrade their training so that the TCM shops can serve their customers better. Ministry of Health had discussed this with the Singapore Traditional Chinese Medicine Organisations Committee (STOC) which represented the TCM traders and retail shops. We are very happy that STOC recognises this, and is planning for a training course for herbal dispensers. Ministry of Health will work with STOC to work out the course, and will help STOC to invite foreign TCM experts to appraise and evaluate the training courses.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I thank the three Members who have supported the Bill and offered constructive observations and suggestions. Since most of the discussions were in Mandarin, allow me also to answer the questions in Mandarin, if Dr Tan Cheng Bock does not mind. (In Mandarin): Sir, I would like to thank Mr Tay Beng Chuan, Mr Ang Mong Seng and Dr Tan Cheng Bock for their very good and constructive suggestions. Let me take this opportunity to respond to the issues raised by them. Mr Tay Beng Chuan said that when the Government registers the TCM practitioners, it should not impose excessive levies or red tapes to increase their costs, leading to higher fees for the patients. I can assure Mr Tay Beng Chuan that this is not the intention of the Government. I believe that the Chinese physicians will not and should not take the registration as an excuse to increase their fees either. I believe the fees would be a very small portion of their revenue.. The doctors, dentists and pharmacists also pay a one-time registration fee. The doctors and dentists pay $200 and the pharmacists pay $100. Every year, the doctors and the dentists pay a licence fee of $200, while the pharmacists pay $100. Assuming the licence and registration fees for TCM practitioners are similar, these are very nominal sums. They should not affect the consultation fees. I must emphasise that these were figures for illustration. The actual registration and licence fees would be determined by the TCM Practitioners Board after its establishment. I am sure that the Board will take into consideration the prevailing charges for the doctors, dentists and pharmacists. I am sure TCM practitioners realise that their fees are determined by market forces.”
“The registration of the acupuncturists will provide valuable experience to prepare us for the eventual registration of other TCM practitioners. Sir, in conclusion, statutory regulation of TCM practice is necessary to safeguard patients' interest and safety. We have to ensure that TCM practitioners are properly trained and qualified before they are allowed to practise. There should also be a framework to raise the professional standard of TCM practitioners in Singapore. All these are provided for in this Bill. The mainstream TCM community, represented by STCMOCC, has played an active part in the preparation of this Bill. This Bill has their support. Sir, I beg to move. Question proposed.”