Goh Keng Swee
Singapore
“Sir, since that was not a supplementary question, may I be allowed to comment briefly on that. When we form a Committee of the House to inquire into an activity of the Government, the assumption must be that there has been something improper. In this instance, where is the impropriety?”
“The career of Brig-Gen Lee is well-known to the public. It has been published in the newspapers. Why then does he come out with all this drivel, other than to impute improper motives? Mr Jeyaretnam: Sir, I object to the term "drivel" as spelt out by the First Deputy Prime Minister. He should know better as a Member of this House.”
“Sir, this is getting most tiresome. So I will just say this - that Brig-Gen Lee Hsien Loong has proved himself in so many ways, both inside the Army and outside the Army, to be a person of outstanding quality. When the Member for Anson says the public are worried, he is again talking nonsense.”
“Sir, I rise to clarify. Actually, the limits are not set by me. I do not have a heavy hand. I regard the MAS as the implementing agency of Government, and in this respect I have to listen to the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Trade and Industry.”
“How you set them, how restrictive or how liberal, would determine two things: (1) the degree of imported inflation from abroad via goods and services from abroad, and (2), the degree of capital inflow from abroad which will affect our money supply in Singapore.”
“Sir, if the land could be more profitably used, say, for commercial or residential purposes and if the Minister for National Development requires such land, then, of course, the land will be acquired and the generous terms will apply.”
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“Sir, this is getting most tiresome. So I will just say this - that Brig-Gen Lee Hsien Loong has proved himself in so many ways, both inside the Army and outside the Army, to be a person of outstanding quality. When the Member for Anson says the public are worried, he is again talking nonsense. The public is aware of the qualities of this young man.”
“Sir, since that was not a supplementary question, may I be allowed to comment briefly on that. When we form a Committee of the House to inquire into an activity of the Government, the assumption must be that there has been something improper. In this instance, where is the impropriety? The Member for Anson has been trying, through devious means of questioning, by innuendo, to suggest that there is something improper. Well, let us have it from him and hear him say so outside this House where he will have no defence of privilege. When I said that that was a drivel, he just stood up to confirm that what I said beats his record for nonsensical outpourings.”
“Sir, if that is not drivel, I ask you, Sir, as an independent observer, whether that is not the most nonsensical question ever to come up from a nonsensical MP?”
“The career of Brig-Gen Lee is well-known to the public. It has been published in the newspapers. Why then does he come out with all this drivel, other than to impute improper motives? Mr Jeyaretnam: Sir, I object to the term "drivel" as spelt out by the First Deputy Prime Minister. He should know better as a Member of this House. May I ask the Minister whether he would agree to a Committee of this House inquiring into this promotion?”
“All the facts he wanted have been given by the Minister. What he wanted to do is, by innuendo, to suggest that there is some secret skullduggery going on. I suggest that he makes his accusation in the open.”
“Sir, I rise to clarify. Actually, the limits are not set by me. I do not have a heavy hand. I regard the MAS as the implementing agency of Government, and in this respect I have to listen to the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Trade and Industry. It is my colleague who ultimately decides what the limits should be and from time to time we change the limits, partly because it is necessary in the new circumstances, partly we have to keep the market guessing. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - (Dr Goh Keng Swee). Bill considered in Committee; reported without amendment; read a Third time and passed. SMALL CLAIMS TRIBUNALS BILL Order for Second Reading read. 3.24 pm”
“How you set them, how restrictive or how liberal, would determine two things: (1) the degree of imported inflation from abroad via goods and services from abroad, and (2), the degree of capital inflow from abroad which will affect our money supply in Singapore.”
“They know it is wrong. It is not that they do not know it is wrong. There was quite a big row in the financial journals, with the foreign banks complaining bitterly. In fact, a foreign banker was supposed to have told one foreign journalist, "If only Dr Goh told us, we would not have done it." Tell that to the marines. Finally, on the number of banks. No one can say what is the right policy - whether we should have more banks or fewer banks - because this cannot be reduced to a mathematical model. For instance, Switzerland, which is a financial power in its own right. There are large numbers of small banks but then it is dominated by the Big Four banks. In Hong Kong, they have got large numbers of small banks. They even have deposit taking companies. If that is the way Hong Kong wants to do its business, that is their affair. But my own preference is to have a smaller number of big banks so that we can watch them more carefully, so that they can reach a certain critical size whereby they can introduce modern management techniques, employ the students that the Member has taught in the University, give them good jobs. On balance, the preference of the MAS is not to be over-generous in issuing banking licences. Dr Augustine Tan: On a point of clarification, Mr Deputy Speaker. The Hon. Minister rightly has confidence in the invisible hand of Adam Smith, but he forgets that there is a heavy hand of "Adam Goh". The heavy hand is in terms of manipulation of the exchange rate, the setting of the limits within which our exchange rates are free to move.”
“They deposit millions of dollars and the rate of interest they earn on these deposits is the inter-bank rate, not the deposit rate which you and I get. The inter-bank rate is usually 1% higher than the deposit rates because these are big sums of money. Local banks are not really interested in getting inter-bank deposits because they are net lenders in the interbank market. The money that they have through the depositors, either cash account or term deposits, is much more than they can lend to their own customers. So they lend in the inter-bank market to foreign banks. Local banks are not in the least worried about the MAS taking deposits of Government companies. In any event, the Member would have known that the MAS has got so much money. We do not really need more. It so happens that three Government companies have deposited money with the MAS. I am not quite sure why. Maybe it is an old boy net working somewhere. We will oblige them but in the end we have got to feed it back to the banking system. So there is really not much point in this exercise. The fears that he has aired are really groundless. Round-tripping is different from swap. Round-tripping is possible with foreign banks who have, say, a branch in Hong Kong. Somebody deposits Singapore dollars in the Singapore branch. That money is remitted to Hong Kong and kept in Hong Kong as Singapore dollars. Then the Hong Kong branch will remit back to Singapore the equivalent amount of money and appears as headquarters' funds and therefore they do not require any reserve against that. In that way, they are really getting an advantage over local banks who do not get capital from abroad. Naturally, this is really a way of circumventing reserve requirements and the offenders have to be severely dealt with.”
“But let me now issue a warning to all international banks that if they lend to a future spendthrift government, when that government is duly overthrown in a future election, there is no reason why we should honour their debts. Let the banks be forewarned. The Member for Whampoa, I think, has misunderstood that clause in the Bill which allows the MAS to pay interest on deposits. These are really interest on deposits of statutory boards and some Government companies which place money with us. We are paying interest, and this is just to regularize the position. It is not the intention to pay interest on the liquidity reserves which banks are required to place with the MAS. Actually the increasing cost of local deposits occasioned by this liquidity requirement comes to about 1 1/2 % a year and, even allowing for this, the inter-bank interest rate (which is what we are talking about) in the Singapore dollar, is substantially lower than the inter-bank interest rates, say, in the Euromarket, in the US dollar. Before I go to round-tripping, I will deal with what the Member for Whampoa said about people being nervous over MAS taking deposits from Government-owned companies. He must not believe everything he reads in our newspapers. This hoo-ha about MAS trying to go into the market to deprive local banks of their clients' deposits is really something conjectured by local financial journalists. It just shows that the standard of local financial journalism is not very high. Let me explain. The local banks are net lenders in the inter-bank market, not net borrowers. When a Government company deposits money with a bank, they do not deposit like any of us here - $10,000 or even $20,000.”
“If Singapore gets richer, then there is more money around, either in the form of currency notes or in banks or whatever, so long as, and he has rightly stated, we do not waste our resources and go into foolish expenditure, which are possible. He said that studies have shown a relationship between money supply and stock prices and property prices. Actually, if you want to trace the relationship between two time series, you can trace the most implausible or the most fantastic of relationship. I once did a study of the relationship between imports of bananas in Singapore and GNP and found a very high degree of correlation: from which you can conclude that if you import more bananas, you get richer quicker. But the mere fact that there is a statistical relationship between two time series does not establish which is the cause and which is the effect. Of course, in the last two decades we have been prospering, the money supply has been increasing. And since there are more rich people - they speculate in the stock market, they speculate in the property market, especially when there is plenty of money in the banks - banks are willing to finance them. But then if they act beyond the limits of prudence, they will suffer in the end. I remember three or four years ago the Member was complaining bitterly about property speculation, people buying apartments and making huge fortunes within two weeks. Where are they now? It means that the invisible hand will take care of this problem. The Member has raised a very valid point on the possibility of a future spendthrift government going around the President and having access to foreign funds, borrowing recklessly from the international loan market. I am not sure whether one can legislate against improvidence of this kind.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker Sir, the Member for Whampoa has shown such a masterly grasp of the subject that I am almost tempted to nominate him for the directorship of the Board. He has raised a number of valid points, seven or eight in all, and I will answer them serially. First, he is right when he says that the MAS is not an autonomous central bank; it is not autonomous in the sense that the Bank of England or the Federal Reserve System is autonomous. Actually the autonomy of central banks is very largely a matter of semantics. When it comes to the crunch, the central bank will have to fall in line with government. Mr Paul Volcker has this free, but only within certain limits. And in the context of the American financial system, it is just as well that he has those powers of restraining the money supply. Nevertheless, he is answerable, if not to the administration, certainly to Congress, and he can be impeached by Congress if there is sufficient Congressmen who are incensed by his policy. The Member for Whampoa is concerned about the behaviour of Ms, and he said that even if we do not look at Ms we should. Actually we do not. I assure him that every week we have our meetings. We watch the aggregates, and the Ms do not appear at all. There is no reason why we should look at it. The theory behind it is extremely complicated, as he knows and the experts are not agreed on what causes what, which comes first. So far as we are concerned, we take the approach, rightly or wrongly, that the money supply is a result of real activity, of activity in the real economy.”
“Yes, of course. But why does he want compensation for his farmers now when we do not require the land? OFFICIAL RECEIVER (Appointments in private civil actions) 5. Mr J.B. Jeyaretnam asked the Minister for Law to state the number of instances in which over the last ten years the Official Receiver has accepted appointment as receiver for the purpose of executing judgments of the courts in private civil actions where no element of public interest or public monies was involved. The Minister for Labour and Second Minister for Law and Home Affairs (Prof. S. Jayakumar)(for the Minister for Law): Mr Speaker, Sir, the only instance in the past 10 years where the Official Receiver was so appointed as Receiver was the case of the Workers' Party. It was not a question of the Official Receiver accepting appointment. He was ordered to be appointed Receiver by an Order of Court dated 3rd June, 1982, upon the application of Mr Tay Boon Too, a creditor of the Workers' Party, who had not been paid his legal costs for many years. In the past 10 years or more, no other political party has kept its bank accounts with so small a sum as $18.47 in order to avoid paying costs it owed, thus making it necessary for this legal procedure to be invoked.”
“Sir, if the land could be more profitably used, say, for commercial or residential purposes and if the Minister for National Development requires such land, then, of course, the land will be acquired and the generous terms will apply. But just because they may not be able to rear pigs at some future date, at a time when we do not need to acquire their land, there is no reason why we should pay out such handsome sums of money.”
“Sir, I see no reason why we should give them compensation or resettlement terms when we do not acquire their land?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, whenever the Government acquires land for development purposes, the usual generous rates of compensation will be paid.”
“I do not think Dr Winsemius said that in such stark terms. He did say that it is a very complicated subject, and that we must pay special attention to the psychological circumstances of the social situation. He also went at great length to explain that if he were a woman and had been educated to a high level of competence, he himself would not marry. And this makes our problem all the more difficult. I would have thought that the Member for Chua Chu Kang, having read what Dr Winsemius said, would direct his efforts all the more to find a solution to our difficulties.”
“Sir, I have gone at great length to explain why this policy is necessary. The Member is wrong in saying that those who had sterilized themselves in the past are being penalized. They are not. Under the rules, exceptions are made for them and they retain the status. As regards the other points that he raised, I think I have fully answered them. If he does not understand what I have said, I am prepared to give the text of my speech to him for him to read carefully and ponder in depth. Then he need not ask unnecessary supplementary questions.”
“Members will recall that the Prime Minister once pointed out that he was the only Singapore-born person in the top seven in the protocol list. This will no longer be so a generation from now. Singapore must produce her own talented people, mostly on her own. How can we be complacent over a situation when three-fourths of our most talented women are likely to remain single? Whether Members believe that many children of graduate mothers are talented or gifted through nurture or nature does not affect the issue. The fact that their children are disproportionately over-represented amongst the gifted and the high performer cannot be disputed. The preference given to children of graduate mothers in school admission is only one of the policy measures the Government has to take. Other changes must be introduced to get the better educated women, both graduates, 'A' and 5 'O' levels, to bear their share of the next generation. The effect could be two-fold. First, we draw attention to the nature and magnitude of our problem. Second, the better educated the woman, the more we must help her to marry and have her children. We must also induce the rational Singapore male to ponder on his wayward past ways and to do better for himself and his children in future.”
“I am not exaggerating. Consider these figures. Last year, 60% of the students admitted to NUS were women. Over 2,000 males who qualified for pre-university chose to go to the Polytechnics. If the trend persists and 60% of our male graduates continue to marry below their education level, then only 27% of our women graduates will eventually be married to graduates. Nearly all of the remaining 73% will remain unmarried. Consider another statistic. Graduate mothers produce nine times the number of gifted children than the general population, graduate fathers, alas, only six times. It does not now matter whether this is the result of nature or nurture, or both. Just calculate the loss to our society if three-fourths of our women graduates, some 2,200 each year, are added to the pool of unmarried. Reflect further on what we are doing. We educate our girls to the best of their ability, and it is a good thing we do so. But to the top three-fourths, that is, those who enter the NUS, we in fact tell them what Hamlet said to Ophelia, "Get thee to a nunnery". What sort of people are we if we consider such matters to be of no consequence? When the Government first expressed concern over this and sent a team to Japan to learn how the Japanese went about it, the episode provoked much merriment, even among some PAP MPs I regret to say. We believe that her people are Singapore's only asset. There is not a Minister or MP who has not repeated this almost ad nauseam. If our people are our only asset, the better the quality of future generations, the better our future will be. Especially is this so when outside sources of talented people, from China, India and Malaysia, are no longer as freely available as in the past.”
“In fact, the President of the NUS Students' Union wrote to my Minister of State earnestly pointing out that it is untrue that only clever people breed clever children. No one can dispute this. Let me give Members what the Shell people call a "helicopter vision" of the problem. This is necessary because, viewed in isolation, the policy makes no sense. The root of our trouble is that while we have made enormous strides in economic modernization and in standards of living, our social customs and habits have not kept pace. The young Singapore woman who writes computer programmes is as competent professionally as her Western counterpart. Yet her attitudes on what constitutes acceptable norms of social conduct, especially in regard to sex and marriage, are closer to those of her mother than her adventurous Western sisters. The same holds true of the Singapore male, alas! When it comes to choosing a marriage partner, most display the male chauvinism of traditional oriental cultures. A docile woman is an asset, a highly educated one may be argumentative and this will not make for marital bliss. I need not labour this point. Now the outcome of such incongruous arrangements - social attitudes lagging behind economic performance - is that in 1983,60% of male graduates marry below their education level. The number of female graduates who do so is negligible. You may ask, "What is wrong with that?" If you take a short-term and myopic view, there is nothing wrong. The choice of a marriage partner is a personal act and outsiders, especially the Government, should not interfere. The Japanese think otherwise, but I will not pursue this line of argument here. If you consider the social consequences of current trends remaining unchanged, the results will be horrendous.”
“It will also arise, if Professors Eysenck and Jensen are correct and parents pass on their genes to their children. No one has devised a system under which a primary school teacher earns as much as a doctor or a research scientist no more than his laboratory assistant. So economic inequalities exist. What is important is not that they exist but how they come about. If high incomes are earned through merit in free and fair competition, as in Singapore, no one can say that a class system that results from unequal incomes is necessarily bad. It is only when high incomes are derived from privileges based on nepotism, political connection or corruption, that the system is to be condemned. Now, I come to the specific points raised by the Member. As regards streaming, the rationale for this is generally well understood, except perhaps by the Member himself. I need not say more than that its purpose is to help the slow-learners who cannot cope with the rate of teaching which had hitherto been geared to the brightest, that is, those who can make the grade to 'A' levels in 12 years. As for the gifted programme, this is not a Singapore innovation. We follow the example of others such as the United States, Israel and, of all countries, the Soviet Union. The preference in school admission given to graduate mothers has generated much unhappiness, and understandably so. In a democracy, everyone wants to be treated alike and where a group is singled out for preferential treatment, strong reasons must be advanced. Why do we give preference to graduate mothers? The subject has been made sensitive because some people mistakenly believe that it is inspired by the conviction that only clever people can breed clever children.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, no one can give the assurance the Member is seeking. Indeed, I doubt whether any education policy can prevent the development of a class system in Singapore or elsewhere. To be quite candid, I doubt whether it is possible to have a classless society which, I assume, is what the hon. Member regards as the ideal Singaporeans should try to achieve. I can, however, assure him that any identifiable class that may emerge will not be the result of the priority scheme. In a meritocratic society such as we have in Singapore, the children of graduate women are likely to be high performers and many will be at the top ranges of society, regardless of any entrance priorities or streaming in schools. Two great thinkers of the 19th century, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, believed that a classless society was not only desirable but also inevitable. This classless society could be achieved by the destruction of the capitalist system which, they said, was a system under which man exploited man. With the overthrow of the bourgeoisie, the ruling class of capitalism, exploitation of man by man would end. Everybody would be equal. True freedom would then be achieved under which, and I quote the Marxist bible, "the free development of each is the condition of the free development of all". Grand ideals, fine rhetoric! Capitalism has been overthrown in many countries - in the Soviet Union, in Eastern Europe, in the Peoples' Republic of China and in Vietnam. Has the classless society emerged there? If anyone believes this has happened, let him go there and see it for himself. As an economic phenomenon, a class system will arise when incomes earned in different occupations are not equal.”
“Sir, can I ask you, on a point of order, whether the questions on details are relevant to the original Question which the Member raised?”
“Sir, this is a very long and complicated subject. I suggest that we go to the next Question. If the Member wants a proper and detailed explanation, he can raise it during the Budget debate in the Committee of supply.”
“Sir, when it comes to streaming at PSLE into the Express and Normal courses, special attention is paid to pupils in the margin, say, 21/2% below the cut-off point. The parents are asked whether they want their child to go to the Normal stream as the examination results indicate, or whether they want to go to the Express stream, and the Ministry complies with the parents' wishes. Where it is below the margin of doubt, the child still has a chance by performing well in Secondary 1 - and there are cases where for various reasons children who are below the band of doubt perform better than expected at Secondary 1 and they go to the Express stream. For the others, it is for their own benefit that if they have the capacity to do GCE at all, it is best that they do it in five years. I know there are ambitious parents in professional families who want to pressure their children, who think it is a loss of face that their child is in Normal course whereas the neighbour's child is in the Express stream. Which is more important? The parent's ego or the child's welfare? Think about it. Dr Tan Cheng Bock: Mr Speaker, Sir, in his 1979 Report, the Deputy Prime Minister definitely gave parents the impression that all Normal course students would at least do the GCE in five years' time. But somewhere along the line the Ministry did some fine tuning to this particular course. I learned that about 65% to 70% of students in the Normal course would ultimately not do the GCE. Why is the Minister so impatient?”
“Member has a very light ear to complaints from school principals and teachers. Schools must always be on the look-out for new methods of teaching, for innovation, for improvement. If they are not willing to improve on their professional standards, then they have no right to be in the profession. So I must ask him, when he listens to such complaints, to have not only a light ear but a discriminating mind.”
“Sir, I am aware of all these problems. However, the Member has grossly exaggerated the extent to which these matters have caused difficulties and problems either to the children or their parents. Slow-learners there will always be under any system. Under the old system, the slow-learner has to learn at the same pace as the fast learner. The result is thousands of school children drop out. Enormous wastage we had then. We have reduced this substantially. As regards the double-weightage at PSLE both for passing and streaming purposes, we have carried out computer simulation tests to see what difference there would be if there were no double-weightage for languages; the difference is extremely minute. As for the Normal stream students at secondary schools not being able to do the GCE 'O' level, I would like to remind the Member that a fair proportion of Normal stream students, after they have finished Secondary 1, are able to join the Express stream. For the others, the better top, maybe 40%, maybe 50%, after doing their GCE 'O' level Normal, can go on to the 'O' level as we have now. The others will probably have the 'O' level Normal as their terminal examinations. Compare this with the situation where it is quite common for large numbers, thousands each year, to drop out of secondary schools. If a parent has a child that is below average in learning capacity, it does not matter whether the child is in the Normal stream in the present policy or whether he is in the same class as the bright boys, because in the end that child will do badly. However, we are giving him a better chance to do 'O' level in five years what he is expected to do in four. As for schools being deluged with work, with pilot projects, with workshops, the hon.”
“Members of Parliament can receive copies of studies, progress reports and policy papers on application to the Ministry. In view of the continuous flow of a large volume of information available to MPs, I did not think it necessary to make a special report to Parliament. However, if sufficient numbers of MPs want a special report, I shall be happy to oblige. As regards the second part of the quesion, there has been no shift in policy since 1979, though various attempts have been made to improve the system.”
“Sir, I have not considered it; it is a rather astonishing idea. When large-scale and efficient enterprises are not expected to survive com- petition from imported pigs by reason of the cost of waste treatment plant, I cannot see how cooperatives can perform better. I think it is more humane that we allow the pig farmers time to adjust and move on to other jobs. May I draw the Member's attention to this fact. In 1975, there were 9,938 pig farms with 16,288 full-time workers. Last December, there were only 3,965 full-time workers. So in the meantime, we have more than 12,000 workers looking for other profitable ways of employment. I do not want to flog a dead horse, Mr Speaker, but when changes have to be made to let the economy grow, Singaporeans are enterprising; they do not need much help from the Government. There are opportunities and they will seize the opportunities. In this way, we make best use of our most scarce and valuable resources, that is, our human resources. NEW RESTRUCTURED EDUCATION SYSTEM (Report on progress) 2. Dr Tan Cheng Bock asked the First Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Education if he will respond to the call by Government backbenchers to present to Parliament a report on the progress and problems of the New Restructured Education System and whether there has been any shift in policy since its implementation in 1979. Dr Goh Keng Swee: Sir, when I addressed Parliament on the introduction of the New Education System, I promised to present a progress report. I have not kept this promise. It is not that there is nothing to report. The reason is that with the establishment of the Schools Council in February 1981 detailed progress reports have been made every month to the teaching profession, the newspapers and the public.”
“Sir, the Member for Anson is a lawyer by profession and he believes that, I assume correctly, from the legal point of view, that a notice to quit means action will be taken. I did say that the notices to the TOL pig farms were served on the farmers on 8th April 1983 which was nearly a year ago and up to now no action has been taken to ask them to quit. Even if the intention of Government to close down all these farms was carried out, time would be given to these farmers to adjust to the new situation. He asked for an assurance whether these notices to quit will be withdrawn. Obviously, from the tenor of my reply, it does not make sense to withdraw these notices and then later on to tell them, "You have to phase out your farms." Because my assessment is that the now policy would mean that not only the small farmers have to cease operation but the big commercial farms also. I cannot see under what conditions they can compete with imported supplies of pigs, if they are asked to maintain a standard of anti-pollution treatment plants acceptable to the Ministry of Environment. In short, the future of the Singapore pig looks to me to be very bleak.”
“They are here to make money. We hope they make money. We are their host. They are our guests. But they must follow our rules and regulations. And if they do that, well, we wish them the best.”
“I think it was introduced as a result of the Great Depression when virtually every day one American bank went bankrupt and people lost money as a result of that. We have not had such an unhappy experience. I think it is better to ensure that bankers who handle your money are men of repute and trustworthy people, That is a better insurance, better safeguard, for your deposits than the deposit insurance scheme. If you have a deposit insurance scheme, somebody must pay. Why pay? Why not make sure that the banks in the first instance do not lend recklessly monies entrusted to them? The second last point he made was in regard to the Asian Deposit, whether they are illegal. I am not a lawyer, Mr Speaker, Sir. But what actually happened is that the applications of the Banking Act were not applied to them. Since the AttorneyGeneral is aware of this situation, I assume that the practices of the Monetary Authority in this regard are quite legal. As to the age of our bank regulators and the complaints that the Member has received from foreign bankers who want to see the supervisor and are received by someone who looks young but actually is not all that young, and they are quite distressed, the hon. Member must remember that bankers want to see the top man. They even want to see the Prime Minister. They want to see me. On some occasions I unwisely agreed to see them. What happened? What matters did they raise? Things concerning the state of the world economy? Something of grave importance? This is trivial. I told them, "Look, what about letting me manage a few hundred millions of your assets?" You know, sales pitch. So the Member for Whampoa must not be overawed by the foreign bankers, either by their bearing or their age. They are here to do business. We welcome them.”
“It is not for me to make predictions about the state of the international monetary banking system other than to say that if it runs into trouble, then I fear that the impact would not only be on the banking system in Singapore but it would probably lead to a world-wide depression of some severity. And that depression would continue until the governments of the industrial countries and the central bankers have put together a more durable and a better international financial system. In assessing the position of ACU deposits in Singapore banks, Members should remember - it is not widely known - that the great majority of these offshore deposits are held in offshore banks or in foreign banks, ACU units of foreign banks. The local banks have only very small amounts because most of these deposits are deposits of non-residents. For instance, if they are multi-national corporations, they put their deposits in a bank which is known to them in their own country. So in effect, this offshore banking business is largely conducted by foreign banks dealing with foreign depositors and lending to other countries. We are just hosts offering facilities such as office, staff, telex machines and such like. The direct impact of, say, insolvency or sovereign debt should it arise, to Singapore banks is minimal because they have very small amounts of ACU deposits. And such amounts even if they are unwisely lent would not make a large dent into their total assets. So our local banks, domestic banks, should in terms of financial liquidity stand up to a sovereign debt crisis quite well. As regards deposit insurance scheme, there was one such scheme in the United States that was necessary.”
“For instance, he said that there should not be any exemptions from the provisions of section 25(1) (a) and (b) in respect of transactions with the Government, on the grounds that some future government might be less prudent than the present one and therefore should be denied access to bank funds. I have some sympathy with that point of view. I do not think it is possible to legislate against disasters of that kind. Long before the government begins borrowing money from the banks, we will be in dire trouble and matters other than banking will be requiring the attention of the government. Why should letters of credit be exempted? The answer is that unlike loans and other credit facilities which are really long-term on-going ones, letters of credit and bills of exchange and such like are self-liquidating documents and are therefore exempted from the limits. He is roughly right in regard to his interpretation of clause 14. It is not so much domestic deposits in the sense of deposits of residents of Singapore which have prior claim. It is the currency in which deposits are made. If you make a deposit with a bank in the Singapore dollar, then the bank is required to keep certain reserves with the Monetary Authority. And therefore in the event the bank goes bust, either because of mismanagement or misfortune, then your deposit has priority over claims arising from deposits in other currencies. He wants to know how safe the ACU deposits are and what would be the impact on Singapore of a general financial collapse.”
“Sir, I will deal first with the few points raised by the Member for Anson. They are not really matters of great substance. As usual, he believes in the British practice of fair play, manifest justice, such-like doctrine. Let us remember that we are not dealing in law courts but with the banking system where billions of dollars are at stake, where the reputation of bankers is known to the market, where the reputation of rising financiers is known. Therefore, the question of undesirable hands cannot be defined in simple legal terms, nor can decisions made on the acquisition of shares be subject to appeal. Such practices are known in central banks the world over which exercise very much the same powers and discretion as are being sought in clauses 5 and 8. Let me assure him that this is not directed against the hon. Member or any member of his Party. If for no other reason than that, I doubt whether any member of his Party would have the wherewithal to acquire 20%, for instance, he would need something like $280 million to make a bid, just the initial bid for one of our bigger banks. The Member for Whampoa has raised a number of queries. I am not sure whether I got all his quest.'ons right or whether I have recorded them correctly. First of all, he is in error when he thinks that clause 7 does not apply to foreign banks. It does. In the case of foreign banks which have branches here, the capital funds refer to the net headquarters' funds remitted from the headquarters of the bank to the Singapore branch. And all loan limits are related to net headquarters' funds so remitted. I am not sure whether I understood his objection to some of these provisions.”
“Every year, detailed results of G.C.E. 'O' level examinations are analysed and presented to the Schools Council. The general public have, therefore, been kept informed of the G.C.E. 'O' level results, subject by subject, through the usual mass media. The details of the 1982 G.C.E. 'O' level results (Cols. 267 - 272) are enclosed for the information of the Member for Anson. Results by the groups of subjects requested are not available. The Ministry of Education does not normally carry out such analyses. results - NATIONAL RESULTS FOR ALL SUBJECTS FROM 1980-1982 (ENGLISH STREAM) (Cols. 267 - 272) PREVIOUS CONVICTIONS OF JOB APPLICANTS 3. Mr J.B. Jeyaretnam asked the Minister for Home Affairs if the Criminal Record s Office makes available to prospective employers in the private sector information on previous convictions of applicants for employment and if it does the circumstances in which this information is made available, e.g. is there a limit in the intervening time beyond which the information would not be made available.”
“May I end on a word of caution. The gold market and more especially the futures market, here as elsewhere, will attract speculators. Speculators are usually people with strong gambling propensities. While regulations properly enforced can curb the worst excesses of speculation, there is no way the Government can save people who are determined to part with their money from the consequences of their own folly. The reports on the 24 gold trading companies, should my colleague the Minister for Law decide to publish them, will bear me out on this point. Addendum - IMPORTANCE OF NATIONAL SERVICE (Cols. 1241 - 1242)”
“'Churning' is the buying and selling of contracts by the broker at the same price. Some brokers have been engaging in the practice of 'churning' of the accounts of their customers in order to earn more commission. c. a new by-law would be added to ensure that all kerb trading are reported promptly. Kerb trades are deals done after GES trading hours (that is, transactions done at night) and which are to be reported the following day. Certain guidelines would be drawn up by the exchange to monitor kerb trading and to ensure that kerb trades are actually done at the proper market price range. d. a new provision would be included to disallow firms from misrepresenting facts to the clients. The technical sub-committee is also studying the feasibility of imposing segregated account requirements for the protection of clients. This is to ensure that clients' funds, placed with the gold trading company as margin deposit, are kept separately from the members' so that the investors' interest would be protected. The GES is currently studying a proposal to expand into financial futures trading activities. In this connection, the possibility of an institutional link with an overseas exchange for trading in both gold and financial futures is under study. A project manager from the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is now in Singapore studying the details of the link- up between Singapore and the International Monetary Market. There are advantages in establishing such a link but the problems are not inconsiderable. I would like to point out that the changes that have been made only cover the main areas of concern. As the exchange matures and gains more experience, more rules, by-laws and regulations would be amended or introduced to ensure the development of an orderly and efficient market.”
“A member who considers himself aggrieved by any decision of the Disciplinary Sub-Committee may appeal to the GES Committee and the decision of the Committee shall be final. e. Discretionary Accounts A new provision has been incorporated in this rule to discourage the operation of discretionary accounts except when a member has obtained specific approval from the GES Committee. Approval for the operation of discretionary accounts will only be given under strict terms and conditions. The MAS has asked the GES to propose a standard format of agreement for the operation of discretionary accounts for its approval. f. Auditing Requirements A new provision has also been incorporated in the GES rules giving the GES Committee power to appoint auditors at any time to inspect the books of its members. g. Changes in the Ownership and Control of Member Company The amended Article of the GES would require a member to seek approval from the Membership Sub-Committee before any change in the legal or beneficial ownership or change in the control of the member company can take place. This is to ensure that an unscrupulous operator would not become a member by buying into an existing member company. The amendments will empower the GES to supervise and regulate its members and to cater for the expansion and development of the exchange. A technical sub-committee was appointed to make further study of the by-laws and regulations which will govern the business conduct and practices of gold trading. Some of the proposals approved by the MAS are:- a. To extend the by-laws and regulations to cover the conduct of associate members of the GES. Previously, they applied only to full members of the GES. b. To introduce a by-law to prohibit the practice of 'churning' of the accounts of customers.”
“The GES in its Extraordinary General Meeting on 11 February 1983 has approved the proposed amendments to its Articles of Association drawn up by its Management. The main changes to the GES Articles of Association and rules are:- a. Legal status of the GES The GES, formerly a private company incorporated under the Companies Act, has been converted into a public limited company to cater for an enlarged membership.(Under the Companies Act, a private company can only have a maximum of 50 shareholders/members.) b. GES Committee The GES Committee is the main executive body of the exchange and has been vested with all the powers of the exchange for the management of the affairs of the exchange. Membership of this Committee has been increased from six to eight members of which two will be representatives from the MAS. The remaining six will be elected by members in a General Meeting from the candidates nominated. The nominees will have to be approved by the MAS. The objective of this amendment is to enable the MAS to play a more direct role in the initial supervision and development of the GES. c. Sub-Committee Two sub-committees, each with three members have been formed. These are the Membership Sub-Committee and Disciplinary Sub-Committee, which will take charge of membership applications and disciplinary matters respectively. d. Disciplinary Action and Appeal The principle of 'show cause' has been introduced as a new rule for disciplinary action. If any member (clearing and non-clearing) fails to comply with any of the GES Articles, rules, by-laws or regulations, the Disciplinary Sub-Committee would require the member concerned to 'show cause' as to why he should not be reprimanded, suspended or expelled or be subject to such other action as the Sub-Committee may deem fit.”
“(a) The investigation into the affairs of the 24 companies trading in gold and commodity futures has been completed and the reports have been submitted to the Minister for Law. The Inspectors appointed have also made their recommendations to the Minister. The Minister for Law will eventually decide whether it is in the public interest to publish the reports. This discretion is provided under Section 198 of the Companies Act. (b) The Honourable Member will recall that on 3 December 1982, I had outlined the steps to be taken to re-organize the gold market in Singapore. These are:- a. gold trading will be limited to those who are members of the Gold Exchange of Singapore (GES); b. the GES will have to prepare a set of regulations governing trading practices for the approval of the MAS. The enforcement of these regulations will be the joint responsibility of the GES and the MAS; and c. the GES should establish institutional links between the Singapore exchange and the New York or Chicago exchange and other overseas exchanges. On 17 December 1982, I met representatives from the private sector and reiterated the Government's policy and interest in the development of the gold market. Generally, all those present welcomed the involvement of the Government in the re-organization of the gold trading industry. It was agreed that while the GES would be permitted to self-regulate its members, the MAS would take an active role in the re-organization and development of the gold industry. To further these objectives, MAS officials have met with the GES Committee on several occasions. During these meetings, the details on the restructure of the GES and the amendments of its rules, by-laws and regulations to tighten control over its members were discussed.”
“(i) The Ministry employs persons with G.C.E. 'O' or 'A' level qualifications as well as trained persons as relief teachers on a temporary arrangement. (ii) In 1982, there were an average of 1032 relief teachers employed each month. (iii) A relief teacher is employed on a daily basis and is paid according to his qualifications as follows: Trained graduate -- $55.54 per day Trained non-graduate -- $41.16 per day Untrained graduate -- $34.97 per day Untrained non-graduate -- $20.72 per day A relief teacher is paid for the days that he works. He is not paid during public and school holidays. The appointment can be terminated at any time by the relief teacher or the school on one day's notice. (iv) Except for 25 schools and junior colleges, the other 422 employed relief teachers at one time or another during 1982 to meet their staffing needs. No list of schools will be provided as the number of relief teachers in a school is not static but changes during the year. This depends on exigencies such as maternity and sick leave and study leave. The duration of service of relief teachers is likewise variable. The majority serve for less than 1 year. CONSTRUCTION BRIGADE 2. Mr Rohan bin Kamis asked the Minister for Home Affairs if he will report on the progress of the Construction Brigade.”
“I am not sure whether I agree with the hon. Member that that will be the consequence of this amendment. In the case of disclosure of ownership of shares in the company to be taken over, the subject comes under the Securities Industry Council. Whether the bank has such information or not is another matter. The provisions of banking secrecy refer to amounts of moneys placed in bank accounts. I am unable to give a clear direction on the issue he raised, but if he wishes to have further clarification I will be glad to look into the matter. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Dr Goh Keng Swee]. Bill considered in Committee. 3.43 p.m. [Mr Speaker in the Chair] Clause 1 -”
“Can the hon. Member repeat the last part of his question? To circumvent what?”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I must insist that the hon. Member complies with Standing Orders. This is Question Time. I want to know what his supplementary question is.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member had not paid attention to the figures I gave him. I repeat the staffing position: 96 senior officers as against an establishment of 98; 60 officers as against an establishment of 63; 193 subordinate officers as against an establishment of 205. I have read the article concerned. I think the hon. Member should address this question to the newspaper, not to me. May I suggest that hon. Members must not believe everything they read in the newspapers.”
“You are a trade union. Mr Sia Khoon Seong: No, whether we are a trade union or not, we do engage in professional activities. What's in a name? There was, for example, the Ministry of Education coming out with this idea of the Rolling Plan. It wants the school to have a three or five-year plan. When the concept was first mooted, the principals were at a loss as to what to do. It was the Singapore Teachers' Union which got the principals together and tried to get the Ministry of Education to get them to come and tell us how to go about getting this Rolling Plan initiated. We got the National Productivity Board experts to come and tell the principals how the Rolling Plan could be planned. We could not get any help from the Ministry of Education. So the fault does not lie with the teachers' unions. But if, for other reasons, the teacher's unions had been a nuisance in the sense that every time there are flaws or mistakes by the Ministry and the teachers' unions make a nuisance by pointing out these mistakes and become an irritant, then that is a different matter. Could it be for these reasons that the unions ought to be closed down? In fact, financially it is quite an attractive proposition because by turning ourselves into a Teacher's Association we do not have to pay the National Trades Union Congress $130,000 a year. ADJOURNMENT”
“The answer is that teachers have been consulted and we know that the institution of full-day schools will create some problems. Married women teachers, for instance, would like to teach only half a day and would like to go back to look after their families. So the whole system of employment of married women teachers or retired married women teachers is being reviewed so that if they have the talent, the experience, and they want to work, we should adjust the terms and conditions of service and the time table to mutual benefit. 5.14 p.m.”
“On the other hand, a student may get four 'A' levels - he becomes a professional, a lawyer or doctor, and then grabs his client's money and goes to jail. Such people may be clever, but I do not think they are any credit to our society. I think I have covered all the main points raised by hon. Members. There are one or two small matters which have been raised this afternoon. The Member for Chong Boon asked why, when the Housing Board builds houses, it does not build schools at the same time so that when families move in, the schools are there? This has got a long history. In fact, when I was in the Finance Ministry, I myself was partially to blame for this. When the Education Ministry asked for certain schools to be built in some housing estates, they put up a very poor submission, full of errors of fact and errors of logic. So I asked them to resubmit the application, but they never did. The result was that the building of schools became the responsibility of the Public Works Department which is in the Ministry of National Development, and they had to get funds from the Finance Ministry, The Housing Board is not interested in building schools because they do not get rents from the principals. They have to run an efficient outfit, and rightly so. I have discussed this with my colleagues, the Finance Minister and the Minister for National Development. Now we have agreed that the Housing Board will build the schools together with the houses and send the bill to the Minister for Finance. So I think the errors that we made in the past will be remedied in future. The Member for Whampoa asked whether teachers have been consulted over full-day schools and is the Ministry aware of the problems.”