Koh Lam Son
Singapore
“(7) To provide more theatrettes or curtains in the classrooms with the increased use of audio-visual equipment such as overhead projectors and slide projectors. These would help prevent unnecessary strain on the eyesight of the students.”
“Sir, this debate can go on, but I would withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $521,224,880 for Head P ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $466,063,100 for Head P ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head R -”
“He should not, in my view, be a civil servant or ex-civil servant, but someone who has an understanding of the civil service, in tune with the hopes and expectations of the public and a grasp of the needs of the business community and financial institutions.”
“Sir, I believe that upgrading the facilities should be the first step, and a better way for the stallholders and for the community at large. 12.45 pm I also wish to state that complaints that customers are shortchanged with poor quality food and badly prepared food is a fact, but it is a separate issue.”
“No one else would do it for us. We have to do it all ourselves. So unless litterbugs clean up the act, we must make sure that they do not dirty our environment. I would like to ask the Minister whether he would consider increasing its own manpower to keep our city clean and green.”
“Mr Speaker, I do not think the Minister has answered the question whether unleaded petrol has any adverse effect on car engines. I believe that if unleaded petrol is of a certain grade - I think they use the term "RON" - if it is below 92, there can be an adverse effect on the valves of the engines.”
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“This will enable the Government to participate with the public in providing the care needed and in enabling the Chest to support more organizations that require help. Secondly, the voluntary welfare organizations need the help of the Ministry to provide training for the volunteers. If training is undertaken by the voluntary welfare organizations it will again severely tax their limited resources and further reduce their effectiveness. By providing proper training programmes the Government, is in fact making an investment for the future to ensure that these organiza- tions continue to be able to fulfil their roles well. Finally, Sir, welfare volunteers whom I have spoken to would like to see more consultation between the Ministry and volunteer welfare organizations. They feel that this is necessary to ensure that the Ministry's policies are effective and take into account the problems faced by these organizations. I would like the Minister's comments on this. Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon (Yuhua)( In Mandarin): Sir, in the past few days, my colleagues in Parliament have been talking about the issue of core values which generally centres around school education. Today, I want to talk about the responsibility of grassroot organisations in the promotion of core values. In fact, before we touch on the topic, the Ministry of Community Development in its total defence scheme under Civil Defence has laid down 6 core values. These 6 cores values are in line with the 4 values outlined by the President in his Parliamentary Opening Address. And the 6 values are racial harmony, religion tolegrance, mutual concern, spirit of sacrifice and being proud of our history and cultural heritage and establishment of a common goal.”
“Sir, in Singapore where resources are limited, a welfare state is undesirable. Our approach to welfare service is through a joint effort between the Government and the people. While the Ministry of Community Development provides the infrastructure and sets the direction the voluntary welfare organizations, backed by the community, are responsible for providing the service. This approach has worked well in the past and should continue to be the framework for us to address the needs of the underprivileged. However, Sir, to be effective, the voluntary welfare organizations require the continued support of the Government. In particular, they are facing problems in two areas. The first was mentioned by the speaker before me. The funding for these organizations is grossly inadequate and very often they have to rely heavily on their own fund raising projects in order to finance their efforts. This is undesirable because it detracts them from their primary goal of meeting the needs of the underprivileged. I would also like to call on the Ministry to set up a fund for these organizations, and to fund these organizations especially if they assume responsibility for a function previously provided by the Ministry. A specific example is the case of the Disabled Services Section of the Ministry. When this section was closed down and the responsibility transferred to the Singapore Council for Social Services, I understand limited funds were passed on to the Council to discharge their responsibility. Perhaps one good way in which the Ministry can fund and support these voluntary organizations is to match dollar for dollar public donations to the Community Chest.”
“Sir, as far as the working mothers are concerned, is it not the Minister of State's objective with the subsidy that she is giving to subsidize children in day-care centre to help to lighten the burden of working mothers? So why should she discriminate against working mothers who prefer to send their children to registered foster mothers as compared to the child-care centres. Why should there be a discrimination as far as the working mothers are concerned?”
“This is on the cleanliness of public toilets and roads. Against the clean and green backdrop of Singapore, two areas stick out like a sore thumb, the state of our public toilets and the prevalent practice of spitting on our roads and in public places. I am really surprised that after all these years of striving to keep our environment clean, we are still not able to eradicate the spitters and the public toilet abusers. Repeated calls have been made in this House and the Ministry has strict regulations to penalize the offenders. However, I am disappointed at the lack of progress and feel that the Ministry can do a lot more in terms of enforcement to rid Singapore of these two problems. In my opinion, the lack of success is largely due to insufficient enforcement and points to a lack of priority and concern. For comparison purposes, we need only to look at the effectiveness of the CBD area licensing and the parking coupon schemes. These are effective because sufficient attention is paid to its enforcement. The Ministry should look towards a systematic and vigorous enforcement of these regulations so that results can be seen. I would like to ask the Minister whether his Ministry would take sterner measures and to allocate more resources for enforcement to rid Singapore of these two bad habits.”
“These are the slaughtering of poultry in wet markets and the use of hawker stalls. Many residents have complained about the unpleasant sight and smell when slaughtering of poultry is carried on a large scale in wet markets. The concern is genuine because in many of these cases, the slaughtering of poultry is done to cater to the demands for wholesale activities and not directly to meet the daily demands of the residents. The limited space in our wet markets is not suited for this purpose. I would encourage the Ministry to look into this and to take steps to ensure that the slaughtering of poultry is limited to what is necessary to meet daily consumer needs. In addition, it may be necessary to put in place regulations to ensure that such slaughtering takes place at the rear of the stalls and that the stall fronts are kept clean and dry. Sir, my last comment concerns the use of stalls in the hawker centres. At present, the small confines of the stalls are used for many purposes. These include storage of utensils and crockery, food preparation and washing. As a result, many stalls are very crammed, unsightly and breeding grounds for vermin and cockroaches. I would like to recommend that the Ministry be more stringent in the enforcement of housekeeping rules to ensure that the stalls are well kept. This may include a limit on the number of items to be kept in the stalls. As for washing, certainly this should be carried out away from the stalls. And contractors can be engaged to do the washing and to do the general cleaning of the premises. Sir, I have another cut under this amendment, may I be allowed to carry on? The Chairman: Yes.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the Government's plan to privatize hawker centres and wet markets is to upgrade these centres, many of which are outdated and need to be upgraded. Today, Singaporeans are enjoying a high standard of living and they also expect higher standards in public hygiene. The present condition of many of these hawker centres is no longer acceptable. Sir, the GPC Chairman for the Environment has highlighted some of the problems that the existing stallholders would face in the process of privatization and I will not repeat them. Naturally, those stallholders affected will be apprehensive, particularly those who are not doing well in their business. Therefore, I would like to urge the Minister that in its implementation, the Ministry would do well to ensure that it keeps in mind the interest of the stallholders and do what it can to soften the impact and lessen the burden on the stallholders. For those stallholders who are doing well and I believe this is the majority, I will encourage them to view this process of privatization in a positive way. Because higher standards of hygiene will benefit them and their customers. In the longer-term, it will ensure that their businesses continue to be viable. If steps are not taken to upgrade their premises, I fear that they may lose out to their counterparts in other private food centres. I hope that the Minister will ensure that the new policy is communicated positively to the stallholders affected so that they will be able to see the benefits that they can derive in the longer term. No stallholder should lose out and it is certainly better to take a longer time than to generate undue stress and unhappiness. Next, I would like to touch on a couple of areas that I think require the Minister's prompt attention.”
“Three supplementary questions, Sir. Can I ask the Minister how many Singaporeans up to date have opted out under the Human Organ Transplant Act and what is the Ministry doing to convert them? (2) How many Muslim Singaporeans have opted in? (3)In the 16 cases where kidneys were obtained under the Human Organ Transplant Act, in how many of these cases were there objections by relatives, and how did the Ministry handle the problem?”
“If this is the case, the rebate is insufficient and should be extended to cover up to eight weeks' of salary as this is the normal maternity leave period. Even with this adjustment, I am concerned that many private companies may still not grant unpaid maternity leave because of shortage of manpower, high work load or the difficulty of finding temporary replacements. Some mothers may also be reluctant to take the unpaid leave in order to have more savings. The result is that mothers having the third or fourth child will have very little rest before and after the labour period. And I wish to remind the Minister here that maternity leave is granted to mothers in the first place for health reasons. Eight weeks is the minimum period for recovery and recuperation from labour, especially if the delivery is by Caesarean operation. Sir, it appears that we have forgotten the role played by the husband in deciding the third and fourth child. We should also look into ways where we can encourage the husband to view this positively. More important than tax incentives may be the incentives of having more time to care for the children. I would encourage the Minister to consider providing more generous paternity leave and perhaps a 5-day working week. I have come across families where the mother is unable to have another child because the father refused it. In many instances, Singaporean men still have the final say in such matters. Finally, Sir, I am cheered by the increase in the personal relief for aged parents and handicapped dependants. However, I would like to point out that as it is more difficult and costly to look after a handicap dependant than an aged parent, I would have thought that the personal relief for the handicap dependant should be relatively more.”
“The enhanced tax relief for working mothers and the tax rebate of $20,000 for the fourth child are most welcome. Certainly, those couples who are contemplating on the fourth child will be relieved. But what about the fifth child? In my opinion, since the underlying principle of the tax rebate is to encourage parents who can afford more to have more, the tax rebate should be extended to the fifth or even subsequent child. I would like to raise three questions for the Minister. First, how would he compute the tax rebate for a working mother who is expecting twins in the third pregnancy? Will she be entitled to a rebate of $40,000 spread over 10 years? Second, would the Minister give an assurance that those who adopt the new policy in good faith will not lose out in the future when policy changes have to be made? This is important because some people are apprehensive whether there will be a reversal of policy once the population goals are met. Third, will the Government also consider removing another discrepancy between the third and fourth child incentives in also allowing the fourth child to have priority for primary school entrance? Sir, tax incentive is one of a number of measures to encourage mothers to have three or four children. And despite this, a mother may choose to have fewer children because deciding to have a child is a very private matter and fiscal incentives alone cannot play the decisive role. It certainly will not have the same influence on our Singaporean mothers as the mythical dragon. Sir, the tax rebate in lieu of maternity leave for the third and fourth child has to be examined further. Presumably, this would allow mothers to go on unpaid maternity leave without suffering a financial setback.”
“Second, I would like to suggest that the Government implement a free tuition scheme for the children of the lower-income group. This can be organized with the assistance of the grassroots organizations or other social welfare organizations. Tuition is a way of life for the majority of Singaporean children and is taken for granted. But this may not be so for the children of the lower-income group. By farming this scheme, the children of our lower-income group will be given equal opportunity with other children and hopefully will do just as well. Sir, many of the workers in the lower-income group may be reluctant to go for skills upgrading after working hours because they could be holding a second job in order to supplement their income. I would like to suggest that the Government look into possible ways of providing time off and sponsoring workers from the lower-income group for training and upgrading their skills. Just as monetary and leave incentives are given for working mothers to encourage procreation, I feel that support given to the lower-income group in this manner will help them tremendously. My last suggestion pertains to the older workers in the lower-income group. I would like to ask the Government to consider offering this group of people the option to continue working beyond the retirement age to enable them to have an income for a longer period. Next, I would like to speak on the tax rebates to encourage procreation. But before I continue, I would like to declare my pecuniary interest as an obstetrician. Bringing up a child is costly and any assistance is welcome. The budget emphasizes the importance of the family and will help working mothers who have the financial burden of hiring maids, foster mothers or putting the child in child care centres.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing me to join in the debate at this stage. Sir, I am sure Singaporeans are gratified that the economic recession is truly over and the economy is strong again. I am heartened to note that this year's budget is geared not only towards meeting our economic but social objectives as well. This is necessary as Singapore becomes more developed. Tax relief to help with the burden of taxpayers with children and aged parents is long overdue. But it is better late than never. Sir, the group of people who will benefit will be the taxpayers, ie, the middle class which comprise fortunately the majority of Singaporeans. But what about the lower-income group? They pay little tax, if any, and would therefore not benefit from the tax incentives. The budget has therefore not addressed the problems of the lower-income. Moreover, the two new consumption taxes on PUB bills and telephone charges will be felt by them. Incidentally, should not consumption tax start with luxury items? Sir, I know it is the long-term goal of the Government to enable the lower-income group to catch up with the rest of society. And I recognize that this should not be achieved through handouts which will lead to our downfall. However, I feel that the Government can farm and implement appropriate programmes to achieve this goal and I would like to take this opportunity to suggest a few. First, I strongly support the call made by the Member for Kebun Baru during the debate on the Agenda for Action last year to set up an advisory council to study in detail the problems of the lower-income group. I am sure such a committee will be able to come up with good recommendations that the Government can imple- ment to help the lower-income group to upgrade themselves.”
“One question for the Minister. Would this measure affect the existing priority housing schemes, such as the resettlement and the three-tier family housing schemes?”
“Sir, the more important question now is how to implement the National Ideology when it is formulated and make it work. No concepts or ideals can be translated into practice and internalize without effective implementation. The Government should identify ways of rewarding those who practise these ideals in order to encourage them. Singaporeans are a pragmatic people. That is why we are able to make such progress. If the National Ideology continues to remain vague and does not impact on Singapoeans in a real and immediate way, I fear little will be achieved. We need to answer the question of what the National Ideology would mean to the poor and needy Singaporeans, to the jobseekers looking for a job and to the person looking for advancement in his career. Indeed, in the short-term, we may need to make the subject compulsory in school and in higher institutions of learning and to promote it to our grassroots organizations, town councils, social and Government agencies. Songs could also be used. These measures would serve to encourage more rapid and widespread practice of the National Ideology until such time when it becomes an integral part of our lives and culture. When this happens, we can be assured that Singaporeans will be fully equipped to deal with the undesirable aspects of Westernization such as the breakdown of the family unit, sexual permissiveness, drug addiction and over emphasis on the interest of the individual. 1.58 pm”
“The electorate may feel that our Ministers are detached and unfeeling when announcing and implementing policy, especially the harsh one. Sir, more needs to be done to project and bring across the human side of our leaders to the people. This will help to dispel the misconceptions and fears that Singaporeans have. Last week, I watched the TV programme "Contact Y" which was referred to by the Member for Ayer Rajah and I too was shocked by the view expressed by some of the participants in the forum who felt that they could not speak freely because of a "climate of fear". Subsequently, I spoke to an NUS student and he too told me the same thing. When I asked him what he and his friend thought of the National Ideology, he told me that they had talked about it and they felt that it was a PAP's ploy. And they feared that the National Ideology would turn out to be like the little Red Book carried by the Red Guards in the cultural revolution in China. Sir, I am not saying that this is the view of the majority of the young people in Singapore. But this demonstrates the point that in spite of the extensive efforts of the Government to reach out to the people, the communication gap still exists. Sir, next, I would like to touch briefly on the National Ideology. I believe that the National Ideology is good for Singapore. It will foster even closer ties between the various communities and help us to achieve greater unity. Much has already been said and it appears that we have managed to identify some important values which are likely to be accepted by the majority of the communities in Singa- pore. These are multi-racialism, religious tolerance, consensus, emphasis on the family unit and placing community above self.”
“One good example to illustrate this is when the Minister for the Environment announced his decision last Wednesday not to introduce the compulsory use of disposable crockery after consideration of the feedback from the hawkers. Next, a more educated electorate expects fuller explanations on decisions taken by the Government, Government agencies and the civil service. When this is not forthcoming, they get frustrated. For example, when the increase in the foreign maid levy was first announced, no explanation was given. An explanation was only forthcoming when a Member tabled an Oral Question to the Minister for Labour last Wednesday. Another example relates to replies given by the various Government departments. Although explanations are sometimes given but, by and large, the appeals are rejected without proper explanations. The standard reply one receives is that the appeal has been carefully considered and that it cannot be accommodated. Sir, this is not satisfactory. Specific reasons for the rejection should be given unless the reasons are of a very sensitive nature. Another problem in the consultative process is the public image of our policy makers. It is important for our leaders to reveal more of the humane side of themselves to the public. I read with great interest a letter in the forum page of the Straits Times recently. The reader expressed surprise at the care and concern that our First Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Goh Chok Tong, showed to his friends. He had the impression that Mr Goh is a very cold and uncaring person and this influenced his voting in the last general elections. Sir, the same impression may have been given by other Ministers.”
“Sir, there is in fact no shortage of alternative views and dissenting voice in Singapore. In this House, many alternative arguments have been presented by both the Government and the Opposition Members as illustrated by this present debate. Alternative views are also freely expressed at grassroots meetings, public forums and in the mass media. The problem is not the lack of alternative views but the lack of response to alternative views. This gives the impression that these views are not heard or deliberately ignored by the Government. As a result, when policies are implemented, it generates public unhappiness. This is especially so if the feedback was given after careful consideration and with sincerity. As an example, the Minister for National Development recently brought up publicly the danger of racial enclaves developing in HDB estates. He further revealed that there would be some policy adjustments to bring about a better racial mix in the housing estates. The public expressed several concerns, such as the possible drop in the value of the flats and the difficulty of living closer to relatives. So far, the Ministry has not responded to this feedback and this creates uncertainty among the HDB flat dwellers. Instead, the Ministry has stated that policy adjustment will be implemented soon. Sir, I think it would be better if response to feedback is given prior to announcing a policy. In this way, the Government will be seen to have given the feedback full consideration. Prompt response to feedback, I think, should be an integral part of the consultative process.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the motion standing in the name of the Member for Siglap. Sir, the President in his Address on the 9th of January 1989 outlined several tasks for Singapore to accomplish in order to ensure a better life for all Singaporeans. I wish to share my thoughts on two of these tasks, namely, to consolidate political stability and to the development of our National Ideology. Sir, is our political stability under threat? The results of the last general elections are revealing. The PAP won 80 out of 81 seats and the popularity vote of 62.4%. This is an overwhelming victory for any democratic state in the world. However, in terms of popularity vote, there is a slight drop compared to the 1984 general elections. This is in spite of the fact that the Government has successfully brought Singapore out of its worst economic recession in 1985 and that it had actively engaged itself in diverse programmes to reach out to the people. Sir, the President has highlighted the need for us to achieve consensus, to accommodate alternative views and dissenting voice and to evolve a more open style of government. I fully agree with these objectives and I feel that we have already established the framework and avenues to reach out to the people. The key lies in the vigorous use and the refinement of this channel to strengthen our links and rapport with the new electorate. I see several problems with our existing process of reaching out to the people. First, the seemingly inconsistent response of the Government to feedback; second, the expectations on feedback and better communication by a more educated electorate; third, the public image of our leaders; and, fourth, the prevailing fear of victimization.”
“Sir, if it is the case as the Minister has stated that the majority of families can actually cope without maids, then why did the Government allow maids in the first place; and, secondly, why allow increasingly large numbers over the years? The second question is that if we are only going to allow families who need maids to have maids, what will be the criteria that the Minister will use?”
“I would like to ask the Minister whether his Ministry makes a regular check on all child care centres to ensure there is a high standard of hygiene because I understand that the infection rate of children going to child care centres is higher than children staying at home.”
“The second question is the issue raised by the Member for Chong Boon and, that is, whether there would be a conflict of interest in the case of the elected Vice-President who is also a Minister, an MP or a member of a political party, when he acts on behalf of the President in relation to the areas where his concurrence is required.”
“For example, it made provisions for non-constituency MPs to be in Parliament in line with the people's desire for a check and balance system. However, the Opposition cannot play an effective role where the nation's funds are concerned because there can only be one group with a majority in Parliament. The Opposition can always be outvoted even if it wants to check the government in the proper use of its funds. Those who are opposed to this system had claimed that here is another attempt by the PAP to cling on to power. This, Sir, cannot be further from the truth because if the PAP wants to cling on to power, it should not propose such a system in the first place. This system restricts its power. The PAP should simply encourage the continuation of the existing system. What about the person to fill the post of the President? Sir, I am satisfied that the White Paper has sufficiently broad provisions to allow the very best among our people to take on this role. If in the first instance, the people decide to have the Prime Minister as the President, this is well and good. It demonstrates the people's confidence in him and the fact that he has a useful role to play and can continue to work for the benefit of the people. Whoever the President may be is a matter for the people of Singapore to decide. It always will be. Finally, Sir, I have two questions which I would like the First Deputy Prime Minister to answer. First, if a candidate is elected President, can he remain as a member of a political party? This has not been clearly stated in the White Paper.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the principle set out in the White Paper on the elected President. The White Paper provides a check and balance system to protect the interest of our nation and our citizens. The risk of losing what we have painstakingly built and acquired through a generation of hard work and sacrifice will be minimized. There will no longer be an automatic licence for the government of the day to dispose of the nation's assets in any manner it chooses. Instead, we would have put into place a mechanism to ensure that our reserves are called upon only under excruciating circumstances. The measure proposed is simple yet effective. It is similar to the system we have for our safe deposit accounts. The bank holds a key and the depositor another. Both keys must be used before valuables can be released. This safeguards the bank and the depositor. Sir, I have heard it asked - since there is no immediate or foreseeable threat of misuse of our financial assets, why the need to have this system in place now? This question is irrelevant because if we perceive a weakness in our current system, we should correct it regardless of whether a problem exists at the moment. Suppose we ignore it and at some point an irresponsible government is elected into power, it would be too late, would it not, for us to take any action then. Look at the example of the Philippines under the Marcos government. See how the country was forced into bankruptcy and had to incur massive debts because of the excesses of the government. There is no certainty that whoever governs Singapore in the future, be it the PAP or otherwise, will not be careless with the use of our nation's assets. The PAP Government has always responded positively to the need for checks in our system.”
“They are already in charge of Government and has been so for many years. They too have a good track record and the recent one is their performance in taking the nation out of the worst economic recession and into a period of unprecedented growth. Sir, in summary, I think it is important that, in the prolonged debate over this incident, we do not lose sight of the fundamental issues, and that only by exposing the subtle attempts to cloud basic issues and distort facts can we ensure that the public will not be misled or misinformed.”
“Nothing, Sir, can be further from the truth. The PAP is not facing any problem. In my opinion, it is as strong as ever. In reality, it is the Opposition that is facing problems of credibility and reduced representation in Parliament, and the reason is obvious. It is the clean track record of the PAP Government that has made it very difficult for the Opposition to raise real issues. So it is understandable that they need to resort to trivial or imagined concern to make themselves heard. There are also those who would have the public believe that the Government is using this incident to systematically remove potential Opposition candidates from standing for election. Again, Sir, this is an unbelievable assertion. For we know, unlike the past, we now have a better educated and more discerning public. Opposition members or any aspiring politician must not only be outspoken and intelligent but they must have the moral integrity to command the confidence of the people. Expectations and standards are high today and those with severe flaws in character cannot hope to be successful. In fact, the Government is protecting the public interests by exposing these persons. We do not want the wrong person to come into this House. On the other hand, we encourage sincere and upright citizens to come in even if it means forming an Opposition to do so. After all, that was how the Member for Potong Pasir made it into this Parliament. So here there is no real issue. Also, Sir, there are those who hinted at the longer term political instability of Singapore to explain the US interference. Again, I fail to see the substance of this argument because in political terms the second generation leaders have positioned themselves well to ensure continued political stability.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to speak in support of the motion standing in the name of the Member for Braddell Heights. Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the Member for Siglap has stated, much has already been said and debated about the US officials' interference in our domestic political affairs. I believe we have made our point clear to the United States and to the world that Singapore does not tolerate foreign interference. Although we are a small nation, we have spoken up with courage and have demonstrated our refusal to be intimidated. There is no need for me to belabour the point except to express my hope that both Singapore and the United States will become better from the experience. We regard the United States as our friend, an important trading partner and as the friendly super-power that defends all non-communist nations, including Singapore. And I do believe that even among the best of friends disagreement can happen from time to time. But as long as there is a spirit of friendship and as long as we are committed to the long-term mutual good, I am sure this incident will help us, both Singapore and the United States, to recognize our differences and to develop more meaningful ties in the future. But what continues to bother me is not the foreign interference but the wilful misinterpretation of the incident by people who are out to discredit the Government. For example, Sir, the Member for Potong Pasir has questioned and cast doubts on the statutory declaration made by Mr Patrick Seong. But as the Prime Minister has said to him last Friday, Mr Seong is now a free man and he is free to go and ask him personally the truth of the statutory declaration. He has also claimed that the PAP is using this debate to divert attention away from its problems.”
“Sir, I think this debate ought to continue, but I withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $460,008,430 for Head P ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $81,587,400 for Head P ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head W - The sum of $36,218,260 for Head W ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. Head Y - The sum of $172,000,000 for Head Y ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. Question, "That the sum of $5,901,816,690 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure for the public services shown in the Main Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 1988 to 31st March, 1989, contained in Paper Cmd. 5 of 1988," put and agreed to. Question, "That the sum of $6,505,997,700 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure for the public services shown in the Development Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 1988 to 31st March, 1989, contained in Paper Cmd. 5 of 1988," put and agreed to. Resolutions to be reported. Thereupon Mr Deputy Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.”
“He has also not answered the point I made about introducing this element of compulsion.”
“Can I seek a point of clarification first, Sir? The point that I was making just now which the Acting Minister missed is that if you wait for these people to come to the clinic, you are not going to screen the population. How many people come to see the doctors? They only come when they are not well. So you are not really doing a mass screening programme. The main point here is that it is people that you are not reaching out to who will later on come up with problems which will then be late for us to look after. That is the point I am making. That is why I start to think of ideas like having a mass screening on election day. I wish to apologize to the Acting Minister if I had heard him wrong. But I thought he did say that it may not be in the interest of the doctors in the private sector to want to promote healthy Singaporeans. Because we are more interested in curative medicine rather than preventive medicine. Is that not the point that you are saying?”
“One is to offer free urine test and blood pressure screening at, say, the outpatient clinics and the polyclinics and also to encourage general practitioners to offer free tests in their clinics. Install more audio-visual aids in all public places, waiting rooms and clinics, hotels, shopping complexes, to run filmlets on the causes of hypertension, diabetes, heart diseases and their prevention. Sir, I do not know whether I heard it correctly just now from the Minister, but I thought he said that the doctors in the private sector may not share the Ministry's philosophy of preventive medicine, of keeping every Singaporean healthy. I do not know whether he actually said that. If he did, I think this is really preposterous. Because as he said just now, the reputation of a doctor, whether he is in the Government service or in the private sector, depends on his responsibility towards his patients. If he is irresponsible in looking after the needs and this includes the need of apparently healthy people, then his reputation will suffer. The gynaecologists in the private sector, and I am not advertising here, do carry out preventive measures. We do breast screening and pap smear, cancer screening. So I do not think it is right to say that we do not share this philosophy. Of course, we do. I have great faith in all doctors in Singapore including those in the private sector, unlike the Minister.”
“Before the Immunization Act, the response rate was very unsatisfactory. After legislation, every parent upon birth registration receives a notification of his obligation to vaccinate or face a fine of $500. The response, as the Acting Minister has stated, is practically 100%. So as far as this group of people is concerned, this is the group that suffers from degenerative diseases, the target group. These are people like ourselves here, in the 40s now. In the next 10 to 20 years we will be in the group that will form the aged. So is it not possible for the Minister and his officers to come up with a legislative measure to make it compulsory for all employees, aged 40 and above, to undergo periodic screening tests, urine tests and blood pressure tests, which are very simple and very low-cost tests? He may think that this is a rather harsh thing to do. But think of the cost, the death that can be prevented and also the social economic cost brought about by these diseases. Another suggestion which I would like to make is that there is a golden opportunity to implement a mass screening programme, ie, on election day. This may sound ridiculous to the Acting Minister - to conduct a health screening programme on election day - but this is the day where the whole electorate has to turn up. It is not so difficult to set up a nursing station either before or after the polling booth, and make sure that every voter has his urine test done and his blood pressure measured. I am sure you will not find any shortage of voluntary medical personnel to come forward to demonstrate their civic spiritedness. I have two other small suggestions.”
“Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head P be reduced by $10 in respect of Code PE 1000 of the Main Estimates. Sir, the subject which I want to raise has already been raised by two other Members and the Minister has responded but I would like to add further comments. Preventive medicine plays an important role in reducing the mortality and morbidity of many diseases, particularly by diseases known as the degenerative diseases of old age, which now constitute the number one killer in Singapore. The Minister has stated in his reply to the Member for Boon Teck and the Member for Kaki Bukit and highlighted a rather comprehensive preventive health programme. The Member for Fengshan has congratulated him and I would like to add my congratulations to him and his staff. However, I would still like to ask the relevant questions. Has all this publicity reached out to the population? Have we reached one and all about this very important message? For example, the pamphlets and the posters that you put up in clinics and in the hospitals' outpatient departments. This, in theory, is only accessible to people who visit those places, and I guess this would constitute perhaps 1% of the population. So how effective is your anti-smoking campaign? Just now the Acting Minister said that it was fairly effective. What does that mean? How does he measure the effectiveness of that programme? What I want to state is that we must continue to find ways and means to mobilize and motivate the so-called healthy Singaporeans to come forward and participate in the preventive health programmes. I would like here to make two suggestions. First, for a preventive health measure to be effective, there must be this element of compulsion. Look at our immunization policy.”
“Sir, can I seek a point of clarification, a very quick one. I think the Minister is wrong to say that the meals delivery is only provided to those people who are very sick. I think it is provided to any disabled who cannot go out of their home or have help from the family or neighbours to go and buy their meals. So it is not for people who are so sick that they cannot cook. The other disagreement I have with the Acting Minister, I am sorry to say that, is that he does not have to wait for referrals to reach out to these families who have sick aged. There is other feedback that you can look into. If there is a will to help, you will find a way. I am happy to give him the figures in Telok Blangah if he wants.”
“The ordinary vehicles are not suitable for this purpose and taxi drivers are quite reluctant to accept the disabled elderly. I want to know whether the Minister would consider perhaps providing the ambulance service for this purpose. The other point I want to make is that the problems faced by the sick elderly are not only health problems. In fact, they are mainly social problems. The social problems are looked after by the Ministry of Community Development which recently has introduced a number of home-help schemes. The point is, as the health and social service are inter-related, should there not be a coordinating committee between the two Ministries to ensure a more efficient service to the elderly and to avoid any miscommunication between the two Ministries. As an illustration, the Ministry of Community Development provides a meal delivery service to the homes. This to them seems a very good idea. But from the health point of view, it may not be so. This is because keeping the disabled elderly physically inactive and serving them without regard to their actual physical capabilities will actually make their disability worse. So instead of delivering cooked meals to these people, maybe the Ministry should arrange for the neighbours or volunteers to do the marketing for these disabled people and encourage them to do the cooking and other light household chores. This will increase their mobility and help them to cope better with their physical disability. In this respect, keeping the disabled mobile at home is such an important thing. Would the Minister consider giving some assistance to set up simple physiotherapy devices in the home, such as those bars and pulleys to ensure that the disabled elderly are kept active on a daily basis.”
“I am asking the Minister to find all ways and means to help these families to help them to look after the sick at home so that they will not be forced to have to go to hospital or to go to nursing homes. Sir, there is no comprehensive programme aimed at helping all these families who have aged sick at home. Yet the Government is encouraging families to keep their aged sick at home. For example, the Home Nursing Foundation is supposed to be a national organization to help give assistance and advice to some 10,000 disabled and sick elderly. But how big is this organization? Can it really look after all these elderly sick and give help to the families? I am surprised to learn, for example, that the Ministry is only providing 42 nurses for the Foundation. As far as I know, no medical staff has been seconded to the Foundation. Can the Minister tell me how many of the total number of elderly sick in Singapore are actually receiving help from the Foundation? The Foundation has set up two senior citizens' health centres and plans to build three more in the next four years. My question is whether the number and the size of these centres are adequate to cope with the increasing number of elderly sick? For example, how many elderly sick can be accommodated in the day care centre and the rehabilitation facilities that it has within these centres? What I want to know is, is the Ministry pursuing a policy of helping only those who seek help from them or, a more enlightened one, to help all those who need help? I have heard of a number of problems faced by these families. One is transport. It is very difficult to transport a disabled elderly from the home to the outpatient clinics, the polyclinics, and even to the day care centre.”
“Sir, it is a fact that the demand for health care of our ageing population is growing year after year. In 1987, the aged, 60 years and above, numbered 212,000, 9,000 semi-ambulant and 1,300 bedridden. By the year 2000, the aged is projected to reach 300,000. What impact has this on our health service? Has the Ministry a long-term strategy to meet this changing needs on our health service? What about its impact on our present health plans? Should there be a revision of the present health plans? As an example, I understand that the Kandang Kerbau Hospital is due to be extensively upgraded or even replaced by a new maternity hospital. The question is: is there a need for such a large maternity hospital in the future, bearing in mind the declining birth rate problem? Who will demand our health services more in the future? The newborn or the elderly? Sir, the basic objective of health care to the elderly is to prevent a decline in the quality of life in old age caused by the development of degenerative diseases. Or to quote the experts, "to add life to years and not years to life". Towards this objective, the Government is encouraging the elderly, including the sick, to stay at home to be looked after by their families. This is right. For who can give better care, love, respect and dignity to a sick elderly other than his or her own family. However, to look after a sick elderly in the home is not an easy task. And I hope the Minister is aware of the many problems faced by these families. I want to encourage the Minister to look into more ways and means to help these families. I think up to now, the help given is rather limited. But I am not asking for a welfare scheme.”
“I would like to propose here to the Minister for the establishment of a separate club, a social recreational club for the disabled elderly. As you know, most of our elderly lead a lonely and often depressing life. They are locked up in a flat while the family members are out at work and they have great difficulty in moving out of their flat during the day. So if we have a club for these disabled elderly, we can bring them down from the flats during the day. They can spend either part of the day or the whole day in the club where we will have volunteers to look after them, emphasis being personal care and personal attention. We can also organize social programmes, outings, for them and also we can include simple physiotherapy exercises for them. So I would like the Minister to consider this. The timing may not be right to establish many of these clubs but I think the timing is right to establish a pilot scheme to see the feasibility of setting up such a club.”
“Sir, the Senior Citizen's Club, when it was first formed, was meant to meet the social and recreational needs of the elderly and this is the right thing to do. But look at what has happened. We have Senior Citizen's Clubs mushrooming all over the island over the years. We have Senior Citizen's Clubs under the People's Association, clubs under the CCC and even the RCs are joining in the band wagon. If you look at the activities of the Senior Citizen's Club, they are all rather stereotyped and unimaginative and they are repeated year in and year out. Because of this lack of central control, local factors come into play and there is biased recruitment of members so that the club becomes a gathering of clans and this therefore stifles room for further expansion. A point which I would like to make is that most of these Senior Citizen's Clubs have mainly Chinese members and I have tried in vain to try to introduce a multi-racial mix in the membership of the Senior Citizen's Club in Telok Blangah. So in a nutshell, I think the whole concept of Senior Citizen's Clubs should go through a national revamp. A National Senior Citizen's Club Board should be formed within the ambit of the Ministry of Community Development. All the existing Senior Citizen's Clubs will come under the administrative control of the Board. The Board will set out the objectives and functions of the Senior Citizen's Clubs. It will organize seminars and workshops and chart directions for the clubs. I think only in this way will the elderly be able to expect better service from the Senior Citizen's Clubs. Sir, in looking after the needs of our able elderly, we must also not forget the needs of the disabled elderly.”
“We are requesting for 160 sq ft. It is 120 sq ft.”
“Finally, I would like the Minister to look into the possibility of allowing RC members who have moved out of the zone to retain their membership if they so wish. This should not be difficult to rationalize because there is no requirement for the members of the other grassroots organizations to be resident in the constituency. So I do not see why a similar rule cannot be applied to the RC. I make this request because in the course of last year I lost three very capable and very active RC Chairmen because they had to move out of the estate and not because they wanted to step down. As far as I know, these three RC Chairmen have not been active after they have moved out.”
“Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to make four requests on behalf of the RCs. The first one is on the same point made by the Member for Bo Wen and, that is, the size of the RC centre. I think the RC centre is now getting very crammed. In the five RC centres that we have in Telok Blangah, you can only hold one activity at a time in any one centre, and in one case the RC members cannot meet in the centre when the tuition class is going on. I have discussed this with my RC Chairman and they have suggested that the optimum size wouldbe around 160 sq ft and this should provide for a lounge, an office-cum-meeting room, a games/video room and a large all-purpose hall. The second request is for the RC Chairman. The RC Chairman carries a heavy responsibility and his work is often very taxing. I would like to propose that the chairmanship be put on a two-year rotation basis. This will not only be welcomed by the RC Chairmen who do not wish to carry on but also it would give other active and capable RC members an opportunity to play the leading role. Each RC Chairman should at the beginning of his term set out certain goals that he would fulfil during his term of office and, at the national level, the Ministry can provide guidelines and perhaps organize a national contest to choose the champion RC Chairman and the champion RC club at the end of two years of office. The third request is for a grant for the RC centre. The RC members are very busy and they should not spend time raising funds. I would like to suggest that each RC be given an annual grant to meet their expenses. Some of my RCs are reluctant to carry out bigger activities because of a shortage of funds and collecting newspapers is not a very productive way of raising funds.”
“I am sure the Minister is aware of the horrible injury suffered by these abused children. I was told that these parents literally beat their children blue and black, burn their children with lighted cigarettes and fracture their skulls and limbs, and there has been a death too. Sir, I am sorry to say this, but I do not think that the Ministry is doing enough to protect these children. Unless the public are made aware of this problem, I am afraid more and more children will be abused or made to suffer in silence. I suggest that the Ministry should mount an urgent campaign to alert the public of this serious problem. People who deal with children such as teachers, doctors and social workers, should be educated on the signs and symptoms of child abuse so that they can become more alert in detecting such cases. I do understand that this is a complex problem requiring delicate handling as it involves a distorted parent/child relationship, and that prosecution is not the best solution. But surely we cannot allow these violent parents to get away scot-free and not find a punitive way to deter would-be child abusers.”
“Perhaps as a start the supervision programme can be decentralized into neighbourhood social concerned units. Each unit will consist of local volunteers, grassroots leaders, representatives from local schools and business community and representatives from the Ministry of Community Development. The unit will then be better placed to reach out and assist these children where they are found. Sir, in the Telok Blangah Constituency we have such a social concern unit. This unit of ours is made up of volunteers, most of whom are professionals and we are fortunate to have social workers amongst the volunteers. The unit is currently assisting and counselling 40 families in distress and priority is given to the delinquent children. They have done quite a lot of work but they are hampered by its size and by the lack of central support and can only deal with but a very limited number of families. The next group of children which has been neglected is the child that is abused. Sir, the Hon. Minister in his reply to a question for oral answer from the hon. Member for Radin Mas on the 21st March stated that the number of reported cases of child abuse and prosecutions are on the decrease. He then went on to give his assessment of the situation. Sir, I am a bit surprised that in his reply the Minister did not appear to show much greater concern on this problem of child abuse, which I consider a heinous crime against defenceless children. The fact that there are over 200 cases a year is itself horrifying and nobody knows how far this is from the true number of incidents. Sir, just think of the pain, the fear and the anguish that these poor kids go through each time they are subjected to the physical violence of the irresponsible parents.”
“Mr Chairman, from one compassionate person to another, I am asking the Minister to show compassion or more compassion on two groups of neglected children in our society. First, the delinquent children. These are delinquent teenagers. The majority of these children are school dropouts. They hang around in public places and loiter about aimlessly. They are unable to find jobs because they are either too young or not equipped to do any job. Their families neglect them and our competitive society does not give them half a chance. So they group together and develop into anti-social gangs. Initially their activity is limited to making noise and causing disturbance. Later they go on to vandalism and petty thieving. Boredom and peer pressure lead them to indulge in alcohol, tobacco, drugs, inhalant abuse, illicit sex and other acts of delinquency. I understand the Ministry has a supervision programme for delinquent children. But I believe this is a very limited one. In 1986 it has only 292 delinquent children placed on the programme. These are children who have been apprehended by the Police and brought to the attention of the Ministry. But there must be thousands more who are still loitering aimlessly in public places. Sir, I do understand that it will be a mammoth task to help these wayward children and I do not expect the Ministry to do it all on its own. But I believe the Ministry should take the lead. Sir, I want to ask the Minister whether he and his officers will sit together and come out with a scheme where his Ministry's officers and social workers can work hand in hand with volunteers to help out these children, to go down to the constituencies to reach out to these children.”
“Sir, has the Minister done any study to find out whether this increase in the number of attendances at the Child Psychiatric Clinic, especially those with emotional disturbances, has anything to do with the children being separated from their natural mothers and put in the care of baby sitters, foster homes and child care centres?”
“Sir, does the Senior Parliamentary Secretary not feel concerned about the wastage to the nation of these young people working at hawker stalls because, I think, they must have numbered by the thousands.”
“Sir, may I seek a point of clarification. I think the Senior Parliamentary Secretary has not answered the issue that I have raised. I am concerned about the employment of young people as hawker assistants because of a wastage of manpower to the nation and also because of the difficulty of older workers getting jobs. My question to the Minister of State was whether one could use age as a factor in the employment of hawker assistants so that only older people will be employed as hawker assistants. That is the point that I am making. Mr Eugene Yap Giau Cheng: Sir, I regard employment at hawker stalls as employment, and as long as the stall-holder is willing to pay that kind of salary to the assistant, so be it.”
“Sir, I have also raised two other issues which he has not answered. I raised the issue of hawker assistants and asked whether he would impose a minimum age on them and also the issue of the plight of stallholders in HDB coffeeshops.”
“And if you wonder why Singaporeans are not taking up unpopular jobs and leaving them to the foreigners, you do a head count of the number of hawker helpers and I am sure you will come out with an impressive number. So should not age limit be a factor in granting permits to hawkers wanting to get helpers?”
“This is where all the dirty work will be carried out and this is to be shared by all the stallholders in the market, and they will be made responsible for keeping that area clean. The stalls are then used mainly for the display of the market produce and at the stall the minimum amount of preparatory work should be carried out. Of course, at the same time we should educate the stallholders on proper housekeeping and the handling of market produce. If necessary, a demerit point system similar to the one applied to the hawker stalls can be implemented. In this way, I believe we can keep our wet markets cleaner and more pleasant for people to shop. The second issue that I would like to bring to the attention of the Minister is the plight of the cooked food stallholders in the HDB housing estate coffee shops. I think these stallholders are a forgotten lot. While the stallholders in the hawker centres enjoy subsidies, the stallholders in the coffee shops are paying high rentals and they are not charging more for their food. A wan t'an mee seller in a coffee shop is definitely in no shape to compete with his counterpart in a hawker centre nearby and the handicap is quite obvious. Is the Government one-sided or keeping an eye closed about this haunting predicament faced by small-time stallholders other than those in the hawker centres? The third issue I want to raise is in regard to hawker assistants. In the granting of a hawker licence, the Ministry requires the applicant to be at the age of 40 and above. However, no requirement of a minimum age is imposed for the employment of helpers. One must appreciate that each time a hawker sets up his business, especially a cooked food stall, he ropes around a few helpers.”
“I would like to raise three issues under this amendment. First is on the wet market system. I understand that the Ministry is planning to phase out the wet markets. There are now altogether 130 wet markets and 35 are already affected by redevelopment and will not be replaced. The Ministry foresees that the wet market system will be replaced by the supermarkets and specialty shops. Sir, I am not against the phasing out of the wet markets. But I believe that this should be carried out gradually and determined by market forces. It is true that more Singaporeans today are going to the supermarkets but it is also true that just as many are still frequenting the wet markets where the prices are generally lower and the variety of market produce greater. Sir, as long as there is a demand for wet markets, there is really no reason to phase them out. Also, we must not forget the human factor involved in the phasing out of wet markets. Most of the stallholders are from the lower income group and many of them are in the older age group. So to them loss of their business may mean a permanent loss of a job. So in this respect I would like to ask the Minister what criteria does the Ministry adopt for closing down a wet market and what will happen to the existing stallholders? Sir, the real problem of our wet market is one of poor hygiene and water pollution. Lack of space and unhygienic handling of market produce by the stallholders lead to the messy state that we find in our wet markets. I would like to propose a simple interim solution to this problem. First of all, if we could construct a common area within the market itself, design and build this area for the sole purpose of preparing and sorting out the market produce.”