Lee Yock Suan
Singapore
“The position will be clear when the regulations have been drafted. Right now we are debating it in the absence of actual wording of the regulations. The regulations will be fair, they are meant to maintain a level playing field, and we should wait for the regulations before we pass judgement. The intention is not to go after everybody.”
“I think the Member will be aware that Internet is a very dangerous place. We can have all kinds of poison letters and they will just spread like wild fire. So we must have some means to try and minimise this and make sure that everything is orderly and fair.”
“The other Members have no problem supporting the Bill, including Mr Chiam. I think the position is about 95% clear. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Mr Lee Yock Suan].”
“Then we will have to see the actual situation. But, as I said, the intention is to go after the popular sites, the main sites of parties and non-party political sites. If it is an individual, eg, a young man posting up his own site and saying "These are my views", we are not going to go after those people.”
“The intention is to make the rules clear for the main parties involved in the contest, in other words, the party websites. These are the areas we are mainly after.”
“I thank Mr Chiam for reminding me about his question. On listening to his speech, I was under the impression that he was asking whether this ban on opinion polls applies to the mass media. The answer is yes, it applies to all media, not just the Internet but also newspapers, TV and so on. Thank you for pointing this out.”
The complete record
Every one of 1,595 lines we hold for Lee Yock Suan, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 19 of 32.
“Mr Speaker, Sir, there is no contradiction between the increase in the foreign maids levy and the policy to encourage more Singaporean women to work. It is not the Government's intention that any particular policy should be pursued to its ultimate limit regardless of other consequences. There has to be a balance between the various policies. Employing a foreign maid is only one of several options available to women who have to work and who have to cope with household and childcare responsibilities. The other options are: (i) The married woman stops work after childbirth and returns to work after the children are older and more independent; (ii) Part-time or home-based employment; (iii) Traditional help from parents, in-laws, relatives and neighbours; (iv) Foster-care; (v) Childcare centres; (vi) Sharing of household duties among family members; and (vii) Local domestic help, mainly part-time. Sir, there are over 40,000 foreign maids in Singapore today as compared to a total of 630,000 households. Clearly, the vast majority of Singaporean families have managed to cope without maids, either local or foreign. Many developed countries with higher female participation rates than Singapore (eg, Switzerland, Japan and Australia) do not depend on foreign maids. My Ministry recognizes that it is not easy for working parents, especially mothers, to juggle their job demands with their childcare and household responsibilities. However, employing a foreign maid should not be the only or even the main solution to the problem. The growing number of foreign maids shows that we are heading to a situation where employing a foreign maid is seen by many as the only option.”
“We classify the unemployed as those people who are actively looking for a job and who do not have a job. I do not know what is the tendency of the Member's question. He seems to be trying to fish out the big army of unemployed that he referred to the other day. The fact is that we have more than 150,000 foreign workers. FOREIGN MAIDS LEVY 5. Mr Chng Hee Kok asked the Minister for Labour whether the increase in foreign maids levy runs counter to the Government's policy of encouraging more female participation in the labour force.”
“Sir, this is something that has to be studied. The problem is how to control it so as to avoid abuse.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the number of people who have registered for employment assistance with my Ministry has dropped from about 10,000 to the region of 4,000. The unemployment figure is actually assessed from our labour force survey. It is the sum total of people who are looking for jobs, not only people who are registered with the Employment Service.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether the Member was present yesterday when I gave the answer to a similar question. Perhaps I could give him a copy of my reply.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, our workforce is about 1.2 million. So 3.3% would be about 40,000 workers who are in-between jobs.”
“Yes. 3%, I think, is equivalent to what is known as "frictional unemployment"; in other words, people moving in between jobs. But that does not mean that there are no people left who can be tapped from our labour market for employment. For example, there are about 300,000 Singaporeans who are above the age of 55, and about 75% of them are not working or looking for work. So if you can encourage them to continue working or re-enter the labour market, there will be a big potential labour force to be tapped.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, as at June 1988, the unemployment rate was 3.3%. The unemployment rates by age groups were as follows: Age Group Unemployment Rate (%) 15-24 5.6 25-34 2.9 35-44 2.4 45-54 3.0 55 & over 1.8 The 15 to 24 age group had a higher unemployment rate because of the entry of fresh school leavers and graduates into the labour market.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, that is not the responsibility of my Ministry. Perhaps the Member should direct the question at the Ministry of Community Development. CHILD CARE CENTRES (Adequacy) 5. Dr S. Vasoo asked the Minister for Community Development (a) whether there will be adequate child care centres in the near future to cater to the needs of working mothers affected by the recent increase in foreign maids levy; and (b) what are his Ministry's plans to encourage the establishment of more child care centres.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the response by employers to the call to raise the retirement age from 55 to 60 has been mixed. The Singapore National Employers' Federation is supportive. It has been persuading its members to do so. However, employers in general are concerned about the cost implications of retaining older workers who are on long salary scales. Progress in raising the retirement age has therefore been slow initially. However, there seems to be a better response by employers in recent months. Various hotels, banks and insurance companies have raised their retirement age through negotiations over collective agreements. During the six months from July to December last year, 76 or 35% of the 217 collective agreements registered with the Industrial Arbitration Court extended the retirement age beyond 55. Of these 76 collective agreements, 49 set the new retirement age at 60 years whilst 27 specified retirement ages of 56 to 58. Although progress is being made, some sectors are still lagging behind. This is particularly so among companies in the non-unionized sector. My Ministry will continue to monitor the progress and assist in the negotiations, if necessary. We would prefer to leave it to the employers and unions to come to their own agreement on setting the new retirement age at 60. However, if the target is not achieved by negotiations within the next three years, the Government may have to resort to legislation. I would therefore like to urge employers who have yet to raise retirement age to work out appropriate arrangements with unions without delay. Employers in the non-unionized sector should also work out their own arrangements to raise the retirement age to 60.”
“However, the whole economy must accept the limits of our indigenous labour force, plus a contingent, not an army, of work permit holders as buffer. It is not possible to let all employers get as many workers as they wish without serious social implications. Instead, they must increase productivity through automation, better work methods and restructuring. They should also employ more older Singaporeans and housewives. A liberal inflow of foreign workers will depress wages, attract labour-intensive, low value-added industries and raise demand for unskilled workers even further. We must therefore maintain a careful balance between higher economic growth and increasing reliance on foreign workers. EXTENSION OF RETIREMENT AGE TO 60 YEARS (Employers' response) 4. Dr S. Vasoo asked the Minister for Labour (a) if he will give his assessment of employers' response so far to the extension of retirement age from 55 years to 60 years old; and (b) what other steps his Ministry will be taking to encourage more employers to employ workers over 55 years of age.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, there are over 150,000 work permit holders in Singapore today. The latest indicators show that there is some easing of the labour market. The number of job vacancies declined in the third quarter of 1988. Employment growth was less rapid in November last year. Some production workers were retrenched recently and released to the labour market. Over the next few months, there will be new entrants to the labour force from our schools and vocational institutions. Employers should therefore find it easier to recruit the workers that they need. As a small nation we are faced with various resource constraints as we strive to upgrade our economy and create better paid jobs for Singaporeans. Our labour supply is an important constraint. The local workforce is growing at about 1 to 2% per annum. With yearly productivity growth of 3 to 4%, our sustainable long-term growth rate is 4 to 6% per annum. If we try to grow faster than that we are bound to encounter labour and other constraints. Beyond this sustainable growth rate of 4 to 6%, each 1% additional growth requires an additional 12,000 workers. Thus, if we try to push the growth rate up from 6% to 10% per annum, we will need to import an additional 50,000 foreign workers each year or 250,000 in five years, and this is on top of the more than 150,000 who are already here. The situation will be clearly untenable, with enormous social and economic costs. Instead, we must upgrade our economy and make better use of our population. The Government will continue to allow a carefully regulated inflow of foreign workers to loosen our labour market and to act as an economic buffer.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the total amount of levy on foreign workers collected in 1988 was $218 million. The collection for 1989 is likely to be higher at about $400 million in view of the recent levy increases. The levy is a pricing mechanism. It is a flexible instrument. It can go down as well as up depending on the economic situation and the demand for foreign workers. There is therefore no fixed period for the levy to remain at a certain level. PAID MATERNITY BENEFITS FOR THIRD CHILD The following Question stood in the name of Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon - 7. To ask the Minister for Labour whether he will introduce legislation to amend Part IX of the Employment Act to provide for paid maternity benefits to female workers on the delivery of their third child.”
“They should also, wherever possible, give some preliminary indications of the variable bonuses that their employees are likely to receive at the end of the year based on the performance so far. In this way, workers will be assured that their wage increases as a whole will not be lagging behind those of other companies. Fifthly, our workers have accepted two years of wage restraint to help the economy to recover. Now that the economy is doing well, they deserve a fair share of the economic rewards. However, we should avoid building in excessive increases in basic pay which cannot be sustained in the long run. We must guard against a wage spiral because of a tight labour market affecting certain types of workers in some sectors. The implementation of the NWC guidelines will depend on the performance of the industry and the company concerned. Finally, there must be good sense and goodwill all round during wage negotiations this year. There must be mutual trust and confidence to preserve our excellent industrial relations climate. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Mr Lee Yock Suan.] Bill considered in Committee; reported without amendment read a Third time and passed. AMENDMENT OF STANDING ORDERS (Paper Parl. 4 of 1988) 12.01 pm”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank hon. Members who have spoken in support of the Bill. Much has already been said and reported in the media regarding the implementation of this year's NWC guidelines and wage reform. There appears to be a better understanding now between employers and unions on how to proceed. I wish merely to make the following comments. Firstly, as some Members have mentioned, we must maintain the momentum of wage reform towards more flexible wage systems. The concept of flexi-wage is sound and has been accepted by employers, unions and the Government. The ability to adjust wages and bonuses according to the economic situation will make our companies more viable and help to preserve jobs during a recession. Those companies which have yet to reform their wage systems should do so without further delay. We should not be discouraged by initial teething problems in the wage reform process. Secondly, in implementing flexible wage systems, we need to be flexible in our approach. Different models may suit different companies and industries. The basic concept is to build up a flexible component in our wage structure. If initial models or formulas are found to be too rigid or unrealistic, they may have to be reviewed. Thirdly, the concept of flexi-wage is to try and keep basic wages relatively stable and adjust as far as possible through the variable component such as bonuses. Workers should look at the total wage package for the year and not just the monthly salary. Fourthly, companies that have concluded flexi-wage pacts with their unions should keep their employees informed of the performance of their companies.”
“Except for the provisions to allow repackaging of the AWS and the introduction of a variable payment, the new sections 48, 49 and 50 contain the same elements as in the existing Act. The amendments state them more clearly, simplify the old clauses and remove provisions that are no longer relevant. Mr Speaker, Sir, this Bill will provide the legal basis for flexible wage systems. It will facilitate wage reform. The driving force for reform must, however, come from both employers and employees, who in their own best interests, should recognize the considerable benefits to be gained from a flexible wage system. I am glad to report that substantial progress has been made. Todate, 356 (or 38%) out of the 946 establishments monitored by my Ministry have implemented flexible wage systems in one form or another. Others are in various stages of study or negotiation. I have on many occasions urged employers and unions to implement wage reform so that our wage system can be more responsive to changing economic situations. With these amendments to the Employment Act, I would like once again to urge employers, unions and workers to work together closely and harmoniously to bring about a flexible wage system which can see us through both good and bad times. Sir, I beg to move. Question proposed.”
“The new section 48 will allow the retention of existing wage systems including AWS at current levels until the employers and the employees or their trade unions agree to reform their wage systems. They may repackage the existing AWS if they wish. For companies which have never paid AWS before, they will be allowed to pay AWS up to one month's wages. For these companies, any payment above the one month AWS should be in the variable form such as bonuses. As in the existing Act, when companies are facing exceptionally poor business results, employers may negotiate with their unions for a lower quantum of AWS or for no AWS to be paid. The new section 48 will also allow the introduction of a new variable payment, a basic feature of flexible wage systems. Employers and trade unions can negotiate for a bonus or other forms of variable payment based on trading results or productivity improvement or other criteria mutually agreed upon by the parties concerned. They may set their own upper limit to the variable payment if they wish as the Act will not stipulate an upper limit. The new section 49 is a re-enactment of the existing provisions. It enables the Minister to make recommendations for wage adjustment based on the NWC guidelines. The wage adjustment can be upwards during a period of economic growth or downwards during a recession. These guidelines will form the basis for negotiation between employers and employees or their trade unions. The new section 50 defines items used in the other sections. As in the existing Act, it also allows either the employer or the trade union to refer wage disputes to the Industrial Arbitration Court for arbitration.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." The National Wages Council has recommended that our wage system should be reformed to make it more flexible and responsive to changing circumstances. The basic concept is that a variable payment should be introduced into our wage structure. Instead of paying out all the wage increases as a rigid increase to basic pay, part of it should be paid out as a variable payment. The variable payment can be built up with economic growth or cut back during a recession. Alternatively, companies may pay their workers an agreed share of the profits as a variable bonus. Such wage flexibility will enhance the viability of our companies and the job security of our workers. Many employers and unions have proceeded in earnest to reform the wage systems of their respective companies. My Ministry has in the meantime reviewed, in consultation with the NTUC and the employers' organisations, the relevant provisions of the Employment Act. These provisions concern the payment of annual wage supplement (AWS), bonus and annual wage increases and are contained in sections 48, 49 and 50 of the Act. These sections were introduced in 1972 following the recommendations of the then newly set-up NWC. The bonuses prevailing for existing companies then were converted and frozen into the AWS. The AWS was made non-negotiable and subject to a maximum of 3 months pay. New companies were allowed to pay up to one month of AWS, or what is commonly known as the 13th month payment. Unions and management could, in addition, negotiate for wage increases based on the yearly recommendations of the NWC. Mr Speaker, Sir, the Bill seeks to repeal and re-enact sections 48, 49 and 50 of the Act so as to facilitate wage reform.”
“51 am CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS TO SAFEGUARD FINANCIAL ASSETS AND THE INTEGRITY OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE (White Paper) (Statement by the First Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Defence)”
“[Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair] The Senior Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Trade and Industry (Mr Eugene Yap Giau Cheng) (for the Minister for Trade and Industry): Sir, I am answering on behalf of the Minister. The Jurong Town Corporation plans to develop a business park on the site at the junction of Boon Lay Way and Jurong Town Hall Road. This will be the first business park in Singapore. The idea is similar to the Science Park. Commercial, industrial and supporting facilities will be integrated into one pleasant, high quality working environment. There will be amenities to attract skilled professionals. There will be specialized buildings to cater for companies with computers and communications equipment, and plots of land available for companies who prefer to construct their own buildings. This site has all the attributes of a good business park: a pleasant environment, easy access by road and MRT, recreational facilities, Jurong East and Jurong West new towns which are nearby. JTC will be submitting its plans for the business park to the Planning Department for approval shortly. POLYCLINIC AT YISHUN NEW TOWN (Completion date) 10. Dr Koh Lip Lin asked the Acting Minister for Health whether the target date for completion of the polyclinic at Yishun New Town can be brought forward. The Acting Minister for Health (Mr Yeo Cheow Tong): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the target date for the building of the Yishun Polyclinic is early 1991. Although it will be difficult to bring forward this target date, my Ministry will, nonetheless, make all efforts to compress the project schedule and try to complete the polyclinic by late 1990. 11.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the proposal by the Member for Jalan Kayu is one that has been raised by several PAP MPs in recent years and was also taken up by the GPC for Labour. I am pleased to announce that for the Approved Residential Properties Scheme (ARPS) the Government has decided to raise the limit for investment of CPF funds in private residential property from the present 80% to 100% of the valuation of the property. The limit will be based on the valuation as determined at the time of purchase. This new limit will come into effect before the end of the year as soon as the CPF Board has finalized the security and other details with the mortgagees. About 35,000 CPF members are servicing housing loans under the ARPS. Over the next two years, about 2,000 of them will be reaching the 80% withdrawal limit. They will benefit from this change as they will be able to service their housing loans with CPF up to the full 100% of valuation. Other CPF members who have yet to reach the limit will also benefit in due course as they can use the additional amounts to repay their outstanding loans, thus reducing the cost of borrowing. So too will the new home buyers. CPF members should take note that the 100% is the final limit for private properties under the ARPS. They should plan their cash flow accordingly and be prepared to meet any instalment payments above the 100% limit with their own funds. DEVELOPMENT OF LAND AT BOON LAY WAY/JURONG TOWN HALL ROAD 9. Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon asked the Minister for Trade and Industry when will the Jurong Town Corporation be developing the piece of land at the junction of Boon Lay Way and Jurong Town Hall Road and for what purpose.”
“My Ministry can look into this suggestion. CPF APPROVED RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES SCHEME (Raising of limit to full valuation price) 8. Mr Heng Chiang Meng asked the Minister for Labour whether he will amend the Central Provident Fund Approved Residential Properties Scheme to allow members to invest their CPF savings in private residential properties up to 100% of the valuation of the property instead of the present limit of 80%.”
“Private sector employers and their workers, or the unions representing them, should come to terms for raising the retirement age to 60 without further delay. My Ministry will assist wherever possible. We will closely monitor the situation and decide what further measures may be necessary to accomplish this task.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, in 1987 there were about 15,000 Singaporeans who were 55 years of age. Of these, about 9,000 were economically active. The majority of these 9,000 (perhaps 80% or more) continued to work after reaching age 55 with the same employers, with other employers or on their own. These are rough estimates, based on CPF data and the 1987 Labour Force Survey. My Ministry does not have precise data in the form requested, ie, the number of workers who retired at age 55 in 1987 and were subsequently re-employed. Whilst the high proportion of workers who continue to work after reaching age 55 appears reassuring, it should be noted that our labour force participation rate falls rapidly with age for older workers. The participation rate is 58% for those aged 50-54, 41% for those aged 55-59 and 29% for those aged 60-64. In 1987 alone, about 5,500 workers of ages 55 and above retired from our labour force. There are about 64,000 Singaporeans between ages 50 and 55 who are economically active. They represent about 58% of their cohort. If they all remain in the workforce over the next five years so that their participation rate remains constant at 58% instead of declining to 41%, there would be 11,000 more workers available to relieve our tight labour market. It is clearly a waste of our scarce labour resources to retire our workers at age 55. The Government has set the lead many years ago by raising the retirement age to 60 for nearly all employees in the public sector. The private sector must now follow suit. Over the next two years, the CPF rate for workers above age 55 will be progressively reduced to their final rates. The lower rates will encourage the employment of older workers.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, when fully developed, the Hougang New Town will have about 41,000 dwelling units. The People's Association and the HDB are considering various possible sites within the estate for one or two modern community centres to be built in future. The number and locations have yet to be decided. Meanwhile, the residents living in the area bounded by Upper Serangoon Road and Hougang Avenues 2 and 10 can use the facilities of the Punggol Community Centre which is about one kilometre away. As it will take several years to plan and build a modern community centre, the PA is setting up a temporary community centre at Blk 603. The centre is expected to be ready this year. INVESTMENT COMMITMENTS (Drop in value-added per worker) 9. Dr Augustine H.H. Tan asked the Minister for Trade and Industry if he will explain why the expected value-added per worker of new manufacturing investment commitments fell from $112,907 in 1984 to $77,854 in 1987, as reported in the 1987 Economic Survey of Singapore, and how this can be reconciled with the claim that new investment projects committed continued to be of good quality.”
“To ask the Minister for Labour if he will ascertain from the People's Association whether a community centre will be built in the area bounded by Upper Serangoon Road and Hougang Avenues 2 and 10; and, if so, when will it be built and where will it be located.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, about 26,000 workers in the age group of 55-59 and another 13,000 in the age group of 60-64 will be affected by the changes in the CPF contribution rates for older workers. In total, about 49,000 active CPF members above age 55 will be affected. The employer's CPF contribution rates for workers above age 55 will be lower than that for workers below age 55. The cost saving will encourage employers to employ older workers and facilitate the raising of the retirement age to 60. On the other hand, the lower employee's CPF contribution rates will mean higher take-home pay for the older workers, thus providing an incentive for them to continue to work. With continuing employment, they will be able to save more and their old-age security will be better assured. Most CPF members above age 55 have paid up their housing loans. Only about 6,500 workers above age 55 are still servicing housing loans. Most of them are at the tail end of their mortgage periods. As the changes to the CPF contribution rates for the older workers will be phased in gradually over three stages, there is some time for them to adjust. With their own contributions to CPF reduced, they will also be able to use their higher take-home pay to help service their loans. For most older Singaporeans, the wider issue is whether there will be jobs after age 55. Without jobs, there will be no pay, let alone CPF to service housing loans. COMMUNITY CENTRE IN UPPER SERANGOON/HOUGANG (Building of) The following Question stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting - 8.”
“Sir, I have taken careful note of the Member's request and I will ask my Ministry to discuss it with the PSA and come to an early conclusion. I agree with him that port services are very essential for Singapore and that stevedoring is a heavy and difficult work. I would not say that it is a skilled or semi-skilled job just because a person has to go for one-week's orientation. But it is definitely a very difficult and heavy job. In fact, my Ministry has allowed some approved stevedoring companies to recruit Malaysian workers. But the question is whether the numbers are enough. Fortunately, with the containerization and mechanization of port activities, I do not think the number will go up very fast. On the other hand, we still need some of them for the conventional cargo handling. So I take his point. My Ministry will look into this matter and come to an early decision.”
“Sir, I would like to assure Members that my Ministry is conscious of this problem. In fact, we have been looking into the question of how wide a coverage the Factories Act should extend to, in terms of protection of the workers' safety and health. As new activities come into Singapore and as we upgrade, we will have to examine the new activities to see whether they are hazardous and whether they should be covered in one form or another. Here, I must also clarify that there are certain other situations where it is not totally under the purview of my Ministry. For example, there are a lot of workers who die from traffic accidents on their way to work. This comes under the Ministry of Home Affairs. There could be other cases where workers get drowned, for example. They fall off the wharf in the harbour areas and so on. In those cases, my Ministry works closely with the PSA to enforce safety and health. But the authority in such places is basically the PSA. And it is also the case with some shipping lines because people do fall overboard and get drowned. So we have to be quite clear about the areas which are the responsibility of my Ministry and make sure there are no gaps in the coverage, as far as possible. Areas we can look into will be, for example, warehouses and new industrial testing facilities. But manpower resources are limited. The best approach for us will be to monitor the accidents in all sectors where people are at work and zero-in on those areas where the accident rates are high, especially resulting in death and permanent incapacity. For example, we have concentrated our efforts on shipyards and construction where the hazards are very high. So in extending our coverage, we will have to channel our resources to those areas that most require our attention.”
“We have done a survey and found that, out of 13 electrical and electronics companies, there were 15 cases of pregnant women who had to resign as a result of this regulation that pregnant women should not work the night shift. The intention of the regulation is very good. It is meant to protect pregnant female workers. But we should not overdo it and in cases where the woman herself is healthy, and she is willing to work night shift and the doctors have not certified that she is unfit, then we should not prevent her from having this means of livelihood if the woman simply cannot work in the day. So the Committee has recommended that the rule be amended somewhat, such that those pregnant women (1) who are willing to work night shift and have given their written consent and (2) who are not certified medically unfit for night work, will be allowed to do night shift on their own choice. But I must caution employers that they should not take advantage of this rule because the intention still is that employers must try as far as possible to arrange for pregnant female workers to work the day shift. I think it is fair to the women workers. Even though there is no medical evidence of ill-effects of pregnant women working at night, nevertheless I think it is fair to them that they should be allowed a less taxing shift. But where the woman herself wants it and gives her consent in writing, and is not certified medically unfit, then I think we should give her the choice.”
“Sir, firstly, this question of dismissals without just cause or excuse. As the Member herself is aware, the Ministry has been reluctant to order reinstatement because very often the relationship has been strained. By the time it comes to the Ministry, there are bad feelings between the employer and the worker concerned. As a matter of practice, the Ministry tends towards awarding compensation rather than reinstating the worker. I think this has a good basis because there are a lot of jobs available and the Government does not want to worsen the relationship. However, over the years we may have tended to go too far in the sense that there could be cases, as mentioned by the Member, where employers may be tempted to take advantage of this rule to dismiss, for example, union organizers to prevent the workers from being unionized. I will re-examine this policy to see whether there is indication that we have gone too far towards the payment of compensation. And if there are good reasons, for example victimization of union organizers, then perhaps my Ministry should seriously consider reinstatement. I will get my officers to study this matter thoroughly and if it tilts too far one way, we will try and do a correction. The question of pregnant female workers working on night shift has been raised. This has been one of the subjects studied by the Committee on Third Shift, which I have appointed sometime ago, and its report has been completed. Unfortunately, this point has not been highlighted by the press. After thorough discussions within the Committee which comprises the Government, employers and unions, the feeling is that the present regulation on pregnant female workers working the night shift is perhaps a bit too rigid.”
“Sir, this policy has been in existence since 1973. And you will be surprised that most of the foreign workers are well aware of the policy. But of course the Member for Potong Pasir has been here for only about three years. We cannot expect him to know all the policies. So gradually we will have to explain to him.”
“What I can say is that I will try to be as sympathetic as possible. I can tell you that this business of marriage approvals is one of the least pleasant aspects of my job in the Ministry. The Government does not like to do this. I do not like to do this. But it is necessary for the benefit of the vast majority of Singaporeans. So we are just discharging our responsibility.”
“But the Government does not promise you that the foreigner would be allowed to live in Singapore. This position is not uncommon in other countries. For example, the UK also has the same rule - you can marry, but whether or not you are allowed to come in is a separate matter. In fact, in some countries there are even marriages of convenience, where they get married and then after getting the permanent residence, they break up. I am not saying the same thing happens here. That is one reason why permanent residence rules and marriage approval are different matters. Unfortunately the Ministry of Community Development has also been dragged into the picture because the Registry of Marriages is under MCD. Actually they have no say on these policies. The controlling authorities are the Ministry of Home Affairs and the Ministry of Labour (Ministry of Labour in respect of work permit holders). One other point from the Member for Bo Wen. He asked whether we can give special consideration to older workers. It is a factor that we consider. But from the point of view of population, actually we should be attracting younger workers, not older workers. I mean, if they are above 40 or above 50, is it wise for them to get married and have children, especially if the woman is so old? From the point of view of population also, as I have said, age is not an advantage, but we do look at the factors.”
“Then they must go back to Malaysia, for example, and renew their passes. The work permit restriction on marriages applies to work permit holders, whether applicants, current holders or past holders. All these come under the scheme administered by my Ministry. It is a condition of their work permits that, if they want to get married, they must seek approval from the Commissioner for Employment. If they get married without approval, then the foreign spouse will be banned from Singapore permanently and the Singaporean spouse will not be allowed to buy HDB flats, and so forth. The Government has been very strict on this point. These are the work permit holders. Then there is the other group of social visit pass holders who are not here to work. It is a different matter if they are working illegally. If they are found to be working illegally, then the same rules governing work permits will apply to them, because otherwise they will escape our controls. But if they are only here as visitors and not for purposes of work, then of course work permits do not apply to them. If they wish to get married to Singaporeans, they will have to apply to the Ministry of Home Affairs. They will, of course, apply to the Registry of Marriages first. The Registry of Marriages will check with the Ministry of Labour for confirmation that this applicant has not applied for a work permit, so that the work permit rules do not apply to him. In that case, the Registry of Marriages will register the marriage because, as far as they are concerned, marriage is okay if they want to carry on. But they are informed at that point of time that marriage does not entitle them to permanent residence. These are two separate matters. If you want to marry a foreigner, by all means.”
“Sir, I can see from what the Member for Boon Lay has told us that there has, in fact, been some confusion and I must say he is not the only one confused because, from the line of questioning of the Member for Potong Pasir, I think he too is confused. I do not blame any of you because there are different departments dealing with this matter and so I should try and explain clearly what the situation is. Firstly, there are two kinds of foreign workers. One kind is from what we call traditional sources, basically Malaysia, because for many years we have this to-ing and fro-ing of workers from Malaysia and to Malaysia. So that is a traditional source. For these workers who apply to get married, the Ministry will not turf them out as soon as they apply. They are allowed to continue working. Many of them do keep trying to get approval. The other group of foreign workers are known as the non-traditional source. These are workers from the Philippines, India, Sri Lanka and so on. These people are only allowed to work in the construction sector and as domestic servants. One of the conditions of their work permits is that they should not apply to get married. If they do, then they will be asked to leave. So it is only in respect of that category of workers that the Government is stricter. Concerning the other question by the Member for Geylang Serai, I have mentioned in my earlier response that family roots are considered. So it is one of the factors we look at. There are two kinds of foreign visitors to Singapore. Some come here to work, they apply for work permits. Some come here as visitors, they are on social visit passes valid for two weeks or longer, and they are allowed to stay here for 60 days out of a period of 90 days.”
“He asked the point about those who have gone back after working here for some time. I think it is necessary that those who have worked here before must come under the same scheme, otherwise it is very easy for them to give up their work permits and then they are out of our controls. The question is, if they have been away for a long time, should the criteria still apply? I think in general terms the answer has to be yes, because some of these people are very patient. They keep applying years after we have said no. But whether there should be a cut-off point, it is something we can consider.”
“Sir, Singapore is a small country. We are short of workers. Therefore, we have to import large numbers of foreign workers who are mostly unskilled and unqualified. If you leave it to the Ministry of Home Affairs, under its normal immigration rules, it will not allow these people to come in for long-term stay. But because we need them to come here to work, we have therefore allowed them in in large numbers. Having done so, we have to be cautious and make sure that not too many of them eventually sink roots in Singapore. Otherwise they would just swamp us. In so doing, we are protecting the interests of the vast majority of Singaporeans. We have to be selective in the kind of people we admit. In looking at the applications, of course we consider a lot of factors. How long have they been working here, what are their qualifications, do they have any skills, do they have family members here and so on? But suffice it to say, approval is granted if the foreign worker has skills or qualifications of value to Singapore and has adjusted to our social and work ethos. Over the years, we have approved at the rate of about 70% of the applications. Members may have the impression that we are very strict as most of the cases are turned down. It may be because the cases that go to them are the more difficult ones. In fact, as I said, 70% of cases have been approved. Of course, I want to add a word of caution here in case the public misunderstand me and expect all their cases to be approved. We cannot afford to make this process simple. We have to be stringent with our controls in order to avoid cases that we cannot allow wanting to come in. So the process has to go on and it has to be selective, but where they are deserving we have approved up to the rate of 70%.”
“Am I to understand the Member for Changkat is not speaking this time?”
“Sir, the CPF Board, the Ministry of Labour and the Ministry of Health are already working out the details of the Catastrophic Illness Insurance Scheme (CIIS). It is quite a mouthful in its original form. The premiums will be payable from CPF funds. I believe once the details are ready, the Ministry of Health will announce the scheme.”
“Sir, I would like to thank the Member for Radin Mas for his suggestions. I think the proposals sound feasible and I will ask the CPF Board to look into them and if they are feasible, to implement them as soon as possible.”
“The Dependants' Protection Insurance Scheme (DPIS) is intended to insure the CPF member for a small sum of, say, $30,000 in case of his death or permanent incapacity before age 55. The annual premium will be payable from the CPF account. It will be extremely small and will have a negligible impact on his old-age savings. Both the HPIS and DPIS are complementary. They are, as it were, two legs of the same concept, which is to have a minimum social insurance scheme for the benefit of CPF members. The details of the DPIS are being finalized and will be announced as soon as they are ready. Sir, I think I have covered all the points on CPF.”
“He asked the question whether a CPF member under certain circumstances could be allowed to help the parent buy an HDB flat. For example, a young girl who marries out and previously she has used her CPF for her parent's flat. This issue has been raised before. The problem is that we do not want to encourage a splintering of multi-tier family units and increase the demand for HDB flats. This is one consideration. This would happen if CPF members are allowed to use their CPF to buy a flat for their parents and another flat for themselves. This will also mean transferring CPF from the member to his parents. Such transfer is only allowed at present under the Minimum Sum Topping-Up Scheme for parents. So perhaps my Ministry should consider whether we could extend the Topping-Up Scheme to such cases that he has mentioned. The rules of the scheme will have to apply. For example, the member must have at least $60,000 in his CPF account before he can top up his parent's account and the parent must not have any CPF at age 55. If he does, we only top up the difference between that amount and $30,000 for a single parent or $45,000 for a couple. I will ask my Ministry to examine this possibility. The Member also asked about the various insurance schemes. I think he has in mind a scheme that was mentioned some time ago, namely the Dependants' Protection Insurance Scheme. This matter has been under consideration for some time. Its implementation has been delayed by more urgent matters, for example the CPF withdrawal age and also other studies related to this scheme. It is in a sense complementary to the Home Protection Insurance Scheme which insures the member or his dependants against the loss of the HDB flat in case of death or permanent incapacity of the insured party.”
“But I would like to remind the Member of what the Member for Jalan Kayu said: the Government should not give in to pressure unless we are convinced that it is good for the nation. May I now just turn briefly to the other issues that were raised this morning. The Member for Pasir Panjang raised a very important issue, and this is when are we going to restore the CPF rate. All of us seemed to have forgotten this issue in the heat of the debate on education. This is a much more important issue really: whether and when the Government is going to restore the CPF rate to the 40% rate. The Government has made a firm commitment on this point and I can assure you there will be restoration to the long-term rate of 40%. But we do need some time to look at the first quarter results and then the Cabinet will have to decide, in view of the economic uncertainties, when is the best time to make adjustments and how big an adjustment to make. But the commitment is there and it will be honoured. The Member for Radin Mas suggested that we should have a ceiling or cap on the CPF. It is a fact I think that there is already a cap but in an indirect way, in the sense that we have a salary ceiling. Anybody who earns above $6,000 per month does not pay CPF the amounts above $6,000 per month. Neither does the employer contribute on his behalf. And if we pursue his idea to its conclusion, the question is, should we reduce the ceiling from $6,000 to say $3,000? I see him shaking his head. So what is it really that he wants? We need to have a system that is fair and a quantum may be one way. The fact is that we already do have a ceiling. But this is something that can be looked into further.”
“But I have said that if you are to take out the CPF from a member's fund and use it for some purpose, be it for education or some other purpose, and the money is not returned to the CPF, then from the point of view of preserving the funds for the old-age security of a member, it is money gone, in that sense. I think nobody in his right mind, and certainly not the Government, will deny that education is a very important investment in human resources. We are proving it by the amount of funds we are spending on education. The Member asked the point whether we are concerned about the brain drain and if so, why not disallow all the scholarship holders? I think there is an essential difference, namely that the scholarship holders are bonded to serve the Government. So the point is, perhaps there is a need for overseas education. We really want our better students to go overseas and mix around in the top universities. But do we want to open up a scheme where we allow those who cannot make it to our universities, to go to some probably unknown university and come back with a piece of paper? To conclude, I would like to repeat once again that I will ask my officers to look at this issue thoroughly. Up to now I have looked at it mainly from the point of view of the Ministry of Labour. We are responsible for CPF as a scheme for old-age financial security. So the position we have taken has been consistent with that point of view. I think it is unfair of the Member for Ayer Rajah to ask why, after having studied this matter for so long, I have not given my position. My position has been clear all along - I am against it. But the Member has pressed me into studying it further, so I shall!”
“It is true. We can examine the data to see whether it is in fact so, as part of our study. The point is this. If that is the main reason why people want to go overseas, why not establish some such universities in Singapore, with standards equal to world standards so that there will no longer be this reason to go overseas simply for the glamour of it? So if you cannot make it to the NUS or NTI, there are other alternatives. I would recommend to the Minister for Education to seriously consider this point. I think several Members and I myself have mentioned this point. Although the issue has generated a lot of heat, it really concerns very few people. Granted 2,000 to 3,000 persons are 2,000 to 3,000 lives. But in making a policy decision, the Government must decide for the vast majority of people. By opening up CPF for education, as I have said, especially for overseas education, there will be tremendous pressure on the parents to send their children overseas. It will be very difficult for a parent to say, "No, I don't want to send you overseas because CPF is for my own use." This is the basic problem. Do we want to put the parents into that kind of a position? Or should not our children, being filial children, recognize the limitations of their parents and perhaps go to the polytechnics and commercial schools where they can learn skills that are useful in future and where they can get similarly well-paid jobs when they graduate? The Member for Leng Kee asked a few points. He asked whether education, to my mind, is investment or consumption. I think I have been misunderstood on this point. On no occasion have I said that education is not an investment. I have not said that.”
“As for the ones who have not been able to make it to the local university, the question is one of a broader issue of education policy, which is not my purview. The Minister for Education has assured the House that so long as we have good quality students, as we raise the standard of secondary education and as more and more of them are able to make it through university, he will expand university places to cater for the number. So if that approach is taken, then the question arises: should we tap the meagre CPF savings of the parents in order to risk it on the children on overseas education which may cost as much as $300,000 for some courses? The Member for Whampoa has introduced an interesting idea. His idea is that perhaps we should allow a few reputable and well recognized foreign universities to set up branches, to set up private universities, as it were in Singapore. This, to my mind, is a good suggestion which the Ministry of Education should consider seriously. [Laughter] I am not trying to pass the buck to him. Let me explain why. The reason is this. I hate to say this but I think a lot of people go overseas for education because there is a lot of glamour in it. They are not really concerned whether it is a good degree or not a good degree. They come back and say, "Look, I have been overseas for education. This is my piece of paper. I must be better than all of you because I got it overseas." Some hon. Members: No. It's not true.”
“If you leave it to the individual, he may not save enough for his own old-age needs. Therefore, the Government has to implement the scheme and make sure that the purposes are kept to its original objective as far as possible; and that the schemes are beneficial to the country as a whole, not just because many people want to have them. The Member for Jalan Kayu made a very good point. He said the Government normally does not give in to pressure. I agree with him fully. Perhaps this is one issue on which the Government should not give in to pressure. The Member for Potong Pasir quoted the Prime Minister's speech and gave some figures on how much people would have in their CPF in future. The important point he needs to mention is that this is for future young CPF members who are starting work from now. If the economy continues to do well and there is no world crash, this is what will be the final position. But as of now, most of the CPF members have very low savings. I mentioned the figure of 85% having less than $40,000, and these are the parents who are being asked to support their children through local university or through overseas universities. Concerning local university we already know the position. It is very affordable to most parents. This is shown by the fact that very few of them need to apply for the Government loan. In fact, I do not know how many parents realize that the loan is interest-free before graduation. Previously when the loan was introduced by the Ministry of Education, the announcement was that it would be pegged to a certain bank rate. Subsequently the Ministry reviewed the policy and decided it would be interest-free. So it is, in fact, a very attractive scheme that is available for all those who can gain admission to the local university.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Member for Chua Chu Kang for making a very brief contribution. It is true that we are running out of time. So I will try and wrap up the discussions on this issue. The speech by the Member for Fengshan which preceded the one by the Member for Chua Chua Kang has raised the temperature in this Chamber by a few degrees! In wrapping up, may I just briefly respond to some of the points made by the Members. I think we have had a very interesting debate. Members have put across their views forcefully and sometimes emotionally. The Member for Thomson asked whether we could study the use of CPF for a member's own education. The Member for Cairnhill also raised this point. Yes, we will look into this aspect as well. Apart from the fact that the funds are for the person's own use, some of the other considerations I mentioned in my statement are similar. So we have to look at the overall policy. The Member for Changkat made the point that we should allow the members more individual choice. I think this is true and accepted by the Government up to a point. We have allowed them, for example, more freedom to manage the funds. But if you push this point to the limit, then the question is why have a CPF scheme at all? Why not allow the member just to keep his own savings? I think all Members of this House will accept that the CPF scheme is a good scheme. We need such a scheme for old-age security. The same point was made but in a different vein by the Member for Potong Pasir. He said that the CPF is supposed to be the trustee of members' funds but members have no say on how the funds are used. The basic point is that the CPF is a compulsory savings scheme.”
“To sum up, I would like to emphasize the following points: (1) The fundamental objective of the CPF scheme is old-age financial security. Any new scheme that we consider must be consistent with this objective. (2) The concept that CPF savings can be taken out as a loan is an entirely new principle which requires very careful study as it can lead to other implications. (3) Most parents can afford Singapore tertiary education as it is highly subsidized and there is a Government soft loan scheme. (4) Overseas education is terribly expensive and few parents can afford to send their children overseas, even with supplementary funds from CPF. Students who can qualify for good universities overseas should qualify for the NUS or NTI. Those who cannot should consider whether it would be better to enrol in the polytechnics or commercial schools rather than risk their parents' life savings on degrees which may not be highly valued. As I have said, I will ask my Ministry to study this issue more thoroughly. We need to investigate carefully the implications of a loan from CPF for education purposes. A comprehensive study will take some time and I hope Members will bear with me. We cannot rush into a decision on such an important issue. Mr Chairman, shall I stop here and allow Members to debate or carry on with the other issues?”