Liang Eng Hwa
Singapore
“Sir, in Mandarin, please. (In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] I would like to thank IMDA for its flexibility in allowing the filming of "Dear You" in the Teochew dialect, and for approving additional screenings to meet public demand.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. Sir, we hope that there will be peaceful resolution to the Middle East conflict soon and that the Strait of Hormuz will be fully open.”
“Sir, I believe the political office holders have not replied or responded to my cut on traffic congestion, so can I perhaps ask the Minister, whether is it because he disagrees with me that the traffic congestion has worsened or that there is no non-pricing solutions to traffic congestion, which I had asked for.”
“Sir, Minister Chee, in his speech mentioned that this year we will be launching 19,600 new BTO flats. So, I would like to ask, how he sees the trajectory in the next two, three years.”
“Also, flexible work arrangements, through inter-agency coordination, could also help flatten peak demand. Sir, road pricing remains important, of course, but it must be a multi-pronged approach to manage congestions. And all these suggestions that I have made, I hope would also help to reduce congestions.”
“Thank you, Speaker. Sir, there are Singaporeans who felt strongly that the founding Prime Minister Mr Lee Kuan Yew's original wish to have the house demolished should be respected. It is not just because this is his personal wish but also the values that he espouse, which is not to have personal monuments.”
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“Madam, the Minister mentioned about home-nursing care. I just want to ask the Minister what more can the Government do to encourage more home nursing care, and whether the reason why there are fewer patients considering home nursing is because the expenses are not covered under the 3M framework. Therefore, there will be an immediate cashflow impact on these patients if they are discharged and then get into the homes. Would the Government consider allowing limited usage of the 3Ms for home nursing care so that patients may consider discharging earlier because they can offset their costs with the 3M subsidies?”
“Mdm Speaker, I am glad to hear from the Minister that the speed of the traffic at the MCE is now back to normal and has even exceeded the threshold speed of 65 km/h. I would like to ask the Minister, with the speed improving, would the Ministry now look at reviewing the ERP charges at that location.”
“Madam, I thank the Senior Minister of State for the response. I would like to ask the Senior Minister of State whether it is a case of these complex charges that are incentivising taxis to concentrate on specific areas or even some specific practices to maximise the mileage, and whether that is counter-productive, as having too many complex charges lead to different behaviour. Secondly, would LTA consider a single call booking system rather than have the present system where each commuter calls each company to book a fare? And would that be a better system for consumers?”
“Mdm Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister while we are likely to see the unwinding of the quantitative easing in US, we may see another round of quantitative easing in a major economy in Asia which is Japan, which will also be introducing quantitative easing, and the result of which is significant weakening of the Japanese yen. I would like to ask the Minister whether we would see another source of hot money coming into Singapore because of the QE in Japan, and whether that devaluation of the Japanese yen will lead to competitive devaluation among Asian countries and, therefore, impacting our competitiveness.”
“Madam, I would like to ask the Senior Minister of State whether in view of these plans to better use the underground space, would we be expecting new laws or legislative clarifications on the rights of landowners? In particular, I would like to ask whether MinLaw sees underground space to be a mortgageble asset in the future, something that has an ownership to it, that is, an asset that can be mortgaged.”
“I can speak without any hesitation that PAP MPs are serving the people exactly with this mission in mind. Mdm Speaker, I support the suggestions in the Ministerial Statement. 6.06 pm”
“Of course, I believe that there is room to improve, especially on the handover process of Town Councils after an election to prevent services of Town Councils being disrupted. From what I can see, this controversy occurred because there was a lack of statutory handover process. Therefore, I welcome what the Minister said in his Ministerial Statement earlier that Senior Minister of State Lee Yi Shyan would lead a deeper review on how to improve the Town Council mechanism, including how to better manage the handover process. I also agree that we should carry out an overall strategic review of Town Councils and we should be realistic that Town Councils are basically political in nature. Just like the city councils of other countries, they are also political in nature. Town Councils were established in 1989 with the original intention of allowing the MPs to manage the Town Councils and have a say in how Town Councils are run. They will have a certain degree of autonomy to improve the living environment of the residents. The Town Council system also allows for political accountability so that the performance of the Town Councils and the ability of the MPs can be linked. In fact, the creation and implementation of the Town Council system means that our politics have evolved to become more accountable and more in sync with people's lives. Therefore, I agree with what the Minister said earlier that we should learn from the experiences derived from the 20 years of running the Town Councils and try to improve the existing structure and operations. Whether it is the PAP or other political parties, we cannot forget that our mission is to serve the people of Singapore. We must do this with a clear conscience.”
“From what I can see, MND's Review Report has reflected some very important points. It has also clarified some doubts and concerns that we had. First, the residents and Town Councils' interests were not compromised. Second, the company did not receive any unwarranted profit from this transaction. On the contrary, it was stated in the Report that the company even suffered some losses. Third, the Town Councils and AIM transaction was legal as well as reasonable. In terms of conflict of interests, the Report has also stated that we should consider why Town Councils were formed in the first place and their political nature. This is also why Town Councils have certain latitude to manoeuvre and they can engage the service of party-affiliated persons or companies. The key is whether these transactions were conducted through an open and transparent tender process and whether it was in the interest of the residents as well as the Town Councils. The purpose of the transaction must also be to protect the interests of the residents. According to this Report, be it the People's Action Party or other parties, they all have similar commercial transactions. Some Town Councils also employed party-affiliated people as the key Town Council personnel. The Report also pointed out that the purpose of the AIM transaction was to resolve the problem brought forth by the ageing software system which was close to its end of life, therefore, the Town Councils accepted one of the recommendations by Deloitte & Touche Enterprise Risk Services, a risk management company, and called for a tender to sell the IP right of the software and then lease back from the company. D&T is a very well-known, reputable, international company. It is unlikely that D&T would have any political agenda.”
“May I speak in Mandarin, please. (In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech on Pg xxxx.] Mdm Speaker, when the Town Councils and AIM incident surfaced, I asked my grassroots leaders, residents and some friends what they were most concerned about in this incident. I have heard from many and I can summarise their worries into two categories: first, was the transaction between AIM and Town Councils legal; was there misuse of public funds? Two, was there any conflict of interest in this transaction? This country has always prided itself on being free of corruption and able to rule by law. For me, personally, what I am most concerned about is whether or not this cherished reputation and the trust that we have built up over the years would be impacted negatively by unfair and untruthful accusations. Although I firmly believe that PAP Town Councils would not engage in any illegal dealings or hurt the interest of the residents, I still look forward to MND's Review Report so that I can understand their views and conclusions based on fact and evidence. I felt that this was the most sensible and mature way of dealing with this matter and to avoid any biases. The problem is that when such a controversy occurs, especially when it involves two political parties and the handover process of the Town Councils after the General Elections, it is almost as if a perfect storm is waiting to happen. It is very important that we should view this issue objectively and calmly to understand the truth and fact of the matter. Town Councils are themselves a very unique organisation. They are a body formed under the Town Councils Act. Town Councils do not belong to any Government organisations. They are not a company under the purview of corporate laws either.”
“Some Members in this House may have different opinions, but I am very glad that the Minister persisted and this will certainly give a strong boost in our efforts to improve public transport. Minister Lui has on two occasions visited my constituency and travelled on the Bukit Panjang LRT. After the second visit, he brought good news. He announced that the Government will set aside $56 million to help the LRT operators buy more LRT trains and to increase passenger capacity by 50%. I am very grateful to the Minister. From this, we can also see his approach of solving problems, that is, he will go down to the ground to see the problem and take actions decisively. I firmly believe that our public transport problems can be resolved and public confidence can be restored. As I see it, there is light at the end of the tunnel. So, I would like to thank the Minister and I hope that he will continue to work hard to resolve the challenging issues in public transport. Demand Management”
“We should invite other private bus operators to come in and increase the capacity of buses and expand bus services. Once the public transport situation has stabilised, we may then relook at whether we should go back to the two-PTO model. At this moment, I want to reiterate my call that it is not acceptable to raise public transport fares during this period. On the issue of alleviating crowdedness on public transport during peak hours, I support Members' suggestions to offer highly attractive concessions to commuters to travel before or after peak hours. Dr Vivian Balakrishnan, Dr Teo Ho Pin and I are Members of Parliament serving Bukit Panjang. The highest number of complaints we receive within our constituency is on public transport. On many occasions, we have gone to the bus stops within our constituencies and witnessed the crowdedness and congestion during peak hours, both on buses and at bus stops. It was not a good feeling and it made us even more determined to improve the public transport situation in Bukit Panjang. Clothing, food, accommodation and transport are the four basic needs in our daily lives. Currently, in terms of transportation, people expect the Government to do better. Unlike other countries, our Government has enough resources and the capability to resolve our public transport problems. Besides pressing MOT to do more, I would also like to cheer on our very hardworking Transport Minister and his team and also give some Page: 147 encouragement to them. I have full confidence in the leadership of our Transport Minister and his capability and determination to resolve these problems. I am grateful that the Minister has very resolutely allocated $1.1 billion to the Bus Service Enhancement Plan.”
“Mdm Chair, in Mandarin, please. (In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] The problems we face in public transport is an urgent challenge. We not only need to resolve this well but also do it as fast as we could. In the next few years, MOT needs to resolve the daily public transport woes faced by the public in the fastest possible time. In particular, priority should be given to towns with rapidly growing populations; and we really need to speed up our efforts. To the workers taking public transport to and fro for work, it is the most annoying routine of their daily lives – huge crowds, long waiting time, multiple transfers, traffic congestion and so on. This kind of annoyance and stress is a Page: 146 daily affair. I am glad to hear the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance say during his Budget Statement speech that he will deal with this problem urgently. We also notice that during this Committee of Supply, MOT has received the most "cuts" and this reflects the utmost concerns of our Members of Parliament and also the public's expectations. The new MRT lines will take a long time to complete. So, in the short and medium term, I think the only way out is to increase the number of bus services to overcome the shortcomings in our public transport service. The problem is that the two public transport operators are currently unable to increase the number of buses rapidly. They are currently also confronted with their internal operational challenges. I feel that they do not have the capacity to increase the number of buses now. During extraordinary times like this, I feel we should temporarily put aside the policy mind-set of having only two operators for the time being.”
“Madam, last year, MEWR announced a series of hawker centre policies, such as the removal of the reserve rent, subletting and stall assignment, to help moderate rental costs. Hopefully, these measures would reduce the food prices. According to NEA, since then, more than half the successful new bids are below original reserve rents. Some hawker centre stalls' rents have dipped to as low as $21 a month in Taman Jurong Market and Food Centre in the June 2012 tendering exercise and stalls that were vacant for a year are now being taken up. Besides removing reserve rents, NEA also rents out hawker stalls that receive single bids over two tenders, instead of requiring competition from multiple bidders. NEA has also banned new stallholders from subletting their stalls. According to some experts, the value of a stall will become nearly zero following recent rule changes that outlaw the transferring of operating licences. But a report in The Straits Times also pointed that the new measures have not curbed rents at popular food centres such as the Maxwell Food Centre and the Newton Food Centre. So, can the MEWR give an update on how we have fared Page: 21 so far? Hawker Centres and Wet Markets”
“Often, high rise littering in lift areas is one of the top issues brought up by residents during my house visits. I hope that the refreshed Keep Singapore Clean effort can motivate the community, NGOs and individuals to play our citizenry part to continue to uphold Singapore as a clean and green Garden City. I would like to ask the Minister what progress has been made so far and what are the plans going forward? Cleaning Industry”
“Thank you, Mdm Chair. Living in a clean environment is what every Singaporean yearns to have and, in fact, are accustomed to. Before the setting up of the Department of Public Cleanliness (DPC), cleaning of the public areas, including drains, pavements, roads and parks, were undertaken by the various agencies, such as NEA, PUB, HDB, NParks, JTC and the list goes on. In addition, if the public wants to feedback on the cleanliness of a certain area, they must ascertain which agency is in charge of the area before they can provide the feedback. In April last year, DPC was set up to integrate the cleaning of public areas in stages and to ensure that all of us have a clean environment to live in. I also understand that DPC has set up a one-stop contact centre to handle and coordinate all public feedback Page: 13 on the cleanliness of public areas and I want to applaud these efforts by MEWR. It has been almost a year since DPC was set up; I would like to seek the Minister's update on the progress of the integration. Keeping Singapore Clean Keeping Singapore clean is a long-term effort that requires everyone to do their part. Under the refreshed Keep Singapore Clean efforts launched by the Public Hygiene Council (PHC), PHC will be working with the Non-Government Organisations (NGOs) to step up to promote greater civic mindedness amongst Singaporeans and pilot a conversation to forge a new norm in public cleanliness and hygiene. It also intends to change the mindsets of our residents from a cleaned city to a clean city led by community initiatives. Over the years, Singapore has earned the title of Garden City and achieved world-class infrastructure but our social etiquette, there is still further room to improve.”
“He further added that companies must take the next three years to transform and productivity is the key to ensure sustainable business and economic growth. I agree with his view that transformation and restructuring need to be done in gradual steps. We do not want a situation where wages go ahead of productivity, leading to the recession faced by Singapore in the 1980s. In view of these, I would like to ask what outcomes does the SME Review seek to achieve, given that many of our SMEs will have to undergo business restructuring and transformation. When SPRING and IE Singapore conducted the SME Review, have they consulted family businesses and micro-enterprises to make sure that the SME Page: 97 Review is inclusive and relevant to these small and medium enterprises? There has been a lot of help announced in this Budget. However, one common feedback is that SMEs found it difficult to access the Government's schemes or found it hard to understand the wide range of help available. A recent study of 521 companies conducted by SCCCI and NTU revealed that about 78% of the companies surveyed said that excessive documentation required during the application process for the various schemes was their greatest challenge. I would like to ask the Minister whether we can improve on this. For example, can the Government allocate more resources to the EDCs to help SMEs tide over this difficult period?”
“Thank you, Madam. In Mandarin, please. Page: 96 (In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] A recent survey by IE Singapore found that 75% of SMEs have presence in South East Asia and about 30% in China. Our SMEs have also presence in other emerging markets, such as India and the Middle East. We can see from here that our SMEs are highly vibrant and malleable. Our economy is becoming more mature and economic growth will slow down in the future, meaning the growth in domestic market will also be limited. With further tightening of the foreign labour policy, we should do more to help SMEs internationalise, raise their awareness of international competition and improve their business management skills. To help SMEs to stay competitive in the local as well as the international arena, MTI has announced that SPRING and IE Singapore has undertaken a SME Review to understand how the government can better help the SME sector cope with the new operating environment and the international competition. Just now I heard some announcements in Senior Minister of State Lee Yi Shyan's speech. I hope MTI can continue to help our SMEs. With further reduction in Dependency Ratio Ceiling, both Association of Small and Medium Enterprises (ASME) and the Singapore Business Federation (SBF) have publicly mentioned that it will affect the business operation of their members. Minister Lim Swee Say has also said that the companies must undergo economic restructuring. It must get the pace right. Too slow and Singapore would lose its competitiveness; both economic growth and growth in employment opportunities will slow down, wages will also stagnate. On the other hand, if we move too fast, companies may close down.”
“I would like to ask the Minister whether we should review this entire approach of public housing so that we can reduce the land cost so that the financing cost for individuals to buy HDB flats can be further reduced.”
“Currently, HDB uses the Debt Service Ratio (DSR) as an indicator of housing affordability. The DSR refers to the proportion of the monthly household income set aside to pay for the housing instalments. It is based on a 30-year loan, and it includes interest payments. So, if the interest rate moves up and the tenure of the loan changes, it would affect the DSR if your income remains unchanged. Currently, HDB flats are priced at DSR of about 25% or thereabout so that most buyers are able to pay for their monthly instalments using CPF, with no or minimal cash outlay. However, we need to study further whether the 30-year-tenure loan is too long for our life cycle. Also, are too much of our CPF savings being channelled to housing and too much of our savings are into property investments? Some countries use the Home Price-Income Ratio (HPI) as an indicator to determine affordability. It essentially measures the number of times the property price purchased is priced over the median household income. In a The Straits Times' article in February 2010, Professors Tu Yong and Yu Shi Ming noted that Singapore's HPI for resale flats in non-mature estates is 5.8, compared to Hong Kong's 19.8 and London's 7.1. That means Singaporeans generally need 5.8 times of their household income to buy a resale flat in non-mature estates, whereas a Hong Kong resident needs more than three times that amount. I want to ask the Minister: what is our HPI ratio now and what would be an optimal HPI ratio we hope to achieve going forward? Sir, another factor is land cost. Due to the rising private property market, it has directly impacted the Chief Valuer's valuation of land cost for public housing.”
“HDB flats then became more expensive in tandem with the rising private property market. Flats today are still affordable but not as affordable as they used to be. HDB prices have risen sharply in the last 10 years but household incomes were unable to keep up with the same pace and magnitude. Public housing should not be like any asset class where those with cash liquidity can take a view on property and hoping to profit thereafter. We have to keep HDB home prices within the comfortable reach of our low- and middle-income Singaporeans, regardless of the property cycles. While there is still room for the private property market and the resale market to discover their price levels, I agree with Minister Khaw that new flat prices should be delinked from the market and not be at the mercy of swings in the private property markets or the resale market. HDB should also look into building a small reserve stock of flats; some new and some resale from the resale market; and release them to the market from time to time should the HDB resale market or the COV run ahead of its fundamentals. There will be obviously carrying cost for holding such a stock but, as HDB covers more than 80% of the housing market, it will be in a better position to manage such costs. In the years ahead, let us bring more stability to home prices, especially in public housing, so that Singaporeans can have peace of mind that HDB homes will always be affordable to our citizens. What it means is that prices of new HDB flats should be directly linked to incomes of the different median household groups to ensure affordability for Page: 134 each segment. In addition, we should also re-look at this concept of affordability.”
“Sir, the last three years have been a trying time for home buyers. High COVs, long waiting time for BTO flats, and the fear of being caught behind the curve as property price rises were real concerns and anxieties many Singaporeans live through. Credit to the Minister for National Development, I think we are on our way to resolving the public housing imbalances in the next two to three years. More new BTO launches are coming and there are record numbers of completed flats in the next few years. The slew of demand management measures and the massive ramping up of housing supply have since begun to show some stabilising effects in the property market. I think we have probably seen the worst of the housing imbalances. All that we are hoping for now is for a nice soft landing in the next few years. But with housing prices at this level, we cannot rule out the risk of a hard landing though, which could be triggered by, among other things, unexpected change of market sentiments, sharp rises in interest rates or the abrupt unwinding of Page: 133 liquidity easing. Now that we have largely met the demand of first-time buyers, and soon able to satisfy the demand of second- and third-time buyers, I believe it is timely now to take stock of our housing programme, carefully study the lessons learnt from this cycle, and refresh the intent and purpose of our public housing policy. HDB housing started in the 1960s as a low-cost model with the aim of accommodating Singaporeans in the shortest possible time. Over the years, as the country progressed and became more affluent, the quality and aesthetics of public housing have improved to meet the changing lifestyles and rising aspirations of Singaporeans.”
“Even as we speak, they are now faced with this self-inflicted situation where a series of heap hazards and economically destructive spending cuts – known as the sequester – would take effect. All these happened because of the ideological difference between the major political parties and their inability to work together. From the tone, I garner from the speeches from both sides of the House yesterday, I am heartened that we are in unity for a better Singapore – striving for quality growth and an inclusive society. Madam, with that, I support the Page: 35 Budget. 1.25 pm”
“I am not sure if Mr Png has been to NTUC Foodfare, but he would know that NTUC Foodfare is open to members of the public – whether you are a member or not – at affordable prices. Of course, if you are a member, there are some discounts. And, if you are a senior and on public assistance scheme, you will also get some discounts. But members of the public do get affordable prices. I know this because we do have a NTUC Foodfare at my workplace at Marina Bay Financial Centre (MBFC). Despite the high rentals at that area – I think that is one of the premium office locations – NTUC Foodfare does charge cheaper and provide affordable foods. For example, a cup of coffee costs $0.90. I am not sure whether you will find another public eating place at Marina Bay – air-con ambience – for a coffee at $0.90. So, I thought I should keep Mr Png informed about this. More importantly, it is to do justice to the good work done by NTUC Foodfare, which has kept food prices at an affordable level at MBFC and benefiting thousands of office workers there. Finally, Madam, there are many things I like about this Budget, most of which were already mentioned by Members here, and I shall not repeat them. I just want to touch on one point that I feel very encouraged about in this Budget. Many ideas and suggestions raised by the PAP Members of Parliament were taken in or being studied. It could be quite a long list to cite. But we know many of the issues are what PAP Members have championed, and in this Budget, we have seen some of them bear fruits. I am glad that we are not in the similar situation or predicament, like what is happening in US now, where their legislature and executive have locked horns, fighting over spending cuts and raising taxes.”
“We must help these Singaporeans to adjust and re-enter the workforce by way of skills conversions, customised career counselling and how they could turn their previous experience and expertise into job enhancing advantage. I am glad we have CaliberLink – a one-stop service point for PMEs under the WDA. But I believe that WDA may need to work with the ground agencies like CDCs, e2i and the community self-help groups to reach out to these discouraged PMEs and help them match meaningful jobs for their re-employment. We may also again need to incentivise companies to hire these middle age former PMEs so as to give them a headstart. During the 2009 financial crisis, I remember there was this programme where MAS and EDB co-pay part of the salaries of our fresh graduate hires for a period of time to encourage companies to hire young graduates during the crisis. I think we could consider a similar approach for former PMEs who have undergone re-skilling programme. We could also look into giving scholarships for re-skilling or professional conversions in industries that are in need of PMEs, and upon graduation help place them in. Clearly, more resources and support are needed here. Of course, ultimately, it depends on the former PMEs themselves. They need to respond positively to such programmes, and must be prepared to change their expectations and Page: 34 attitudes, to embark on a new career journey. If we can gain enough traction, this could help increase labour force participation rate, reduce demand for and dependence on foreign PMEs. Madam, before I end, I thought it could be helpful if I can share my personal experience on the NTUC Foodfare after hearing what Mr Png Eng Huat has mentioned yesterday.”
“My point is this, our home grown talents can step up to many positions. What they need are more opportunities and the leap of faith. And my message to employers is this: Singaporeans may not be as articulate as those with Page: 33 international background, or speak with a flair for the language. But do note that our local talents have solid grounding and have the ability to grow and prosper your company as the S-REIT markets have shown. Importantly, these talents are rooted in Singapore and form the Singaporean Core. Next, I want to speak for a pool of former PMEs who have either retired early or are now under-employed. Many used to work in MNCs or large companies as managers and engineers. They are still in their employable age – probably at the mid-life age of 50s. They are well-educated and technically well-trained and experienced in their area of specialisation. However, either due to structural changes in their industries or companies downsizing or relocating, many left their jobs that they are specialised in. Few were successful in doing a career switch while many felt dejected in not being able to find jobs of similar terms or similar level of seniority or similar scope. I spoke to a number of them in my constituency. I can sense their anguish and frustration in not being able to find suitable jobs in which they think they can do well. Many went for interviews in numerous jobs but were mostly not successful in roles that they think they can perform. They get the sense that companies tend to favour the younger ones or foreigners. They also feel stereotyped as being less energetic or "over the peak".”
“Or is it a case where some of the employers or hirers may already have pre-determined mindsets that foreigners with some international experience can do a better job? More engagements with such employers are necessary so that Singaporeans are given a fair chance. Hence, I agree with the colleagues in this House that some form of market sensing practices when companies apply for EPs is necessary. While it may not always lead to a Singaporean hire, at least it will make the employers more conscious in their hiring process and give our local PMEs a chance. One sector that demonstrates the leap of faith in Singaporean talents is in the Singapore Real Estates Investment Trust (S-REITs) scene. In the last decade, Singapore REITs has grown in leaps and bounds to become Asia's largest REIT market ex-Japan. It is a sophisticated market and requires specialised skills in real estate, finance, management and coming up with competitive value propositions. If we look closely into the entire development and growth of the S-REIT market, we would have noticed that it has been predominantly led and driven by local talents. The CEOs, CIOs and CFOs of the large market cap REITs are mostly our home-bred talents. And with these local senior executives at the helm, they help develop and nurture even more Singaporeans local talents below them to grow the sector and to expand beyond Singapore. Many of the REITs are more than just a Singapore-listed entity. They own and manage properties across the region. The vibrant Singapore market has also attracted more listing of foreign properties and assets in Singapore. This further deepens and broadens our capital markets and creates many more attractive professional job opportunities.”
“Thirdly, I want to call on the Government to freeze any public transport fare increase until we see significant improvements in service level and enhancements. Operating costs may well have gone up for the PTOs but that is just justifying it from the company's perspective. From the public and commuter standpoint, LTA and PTOs have not delivered on its duty to provide reliable and convenient public transport. Commuters feel let down and are disappointed by the current under provision of services and the series of disruptions in trains, LRTs and the buses. LTA and the PTOs have to restore public confidence before we can even talk about fare increase. Mdm Speaker, I move on now to talk about job competition from EPs in the PME space. Like Mr Lim Biow Chuan, Ms Foo Mee Har and Mr Patrick Tay, I too want to raise the concerns on unfair employment practices where Singaporeans are not getting their fair opportunities. Page: 32 I noted the Finance Minister's careful choice of words in the Budget Statement when he talked about the tightening of EPs and the strengthening of the Singaporean Core in the PME space. Yes, our EP policy must ensure that firms in Singapore can continue to recruit the best talents – both locals and foreigners – so that companies here can compete in the global markets. But at the same time, we must ensure that Singaporeans have a fair chance to the available job opportunities. However, there are clearly still a number of firms that had visibly hire a large proportion of foreigners particularly in the managerial level. You cannot help but think whether it is really that difficult to find Singaporeans to fill those managerial positions. These include job roles like HR, finance, compliance, auditing and general administration.”
“I am hearing that a few companies are adopting such practices but it is still a small number. Perhaps the Government and Statutory Boards could lead the way in this area, some of the learning institutions and some part of the Civil Service could take the lead Page: 31 and experiment with such flexi timings. The Finance Minister mentioned in the Budget Statement that more measures will be introduced to reduce crowding, including significantly enhanced incentives for commuters who travel during the "shoulder" period before and after the morning peak. If the incentives are good enough and can bite, it would certainly make taking public transport more comfortable and less crowded and more appealing. Hence, I join the call by Dr Janil Puthucheary to seriously consider having free or very low fares during the non-peak window in the morning and evening. After hearing Dr Janil's speech yesterday, I did a little research and found out that indeed in Melbourne's Metro, the city metropolitan train operator, do offer weekday free fares for early birds travel before 7 am in their city zones. We should study the Melbourne's experience. Even a shift of say, a 10% of commuters from peak to non-peak, would make a great deal of difference and ease crowdedness. However, I would want to caution that even as we give free fares for the non-peak window, it should not come at the expense of the other groups of commuters, or cross-subsidise the other groups of commuters. It should be funded from other revenue sources such as the collections from COE, car taxes and the ERPs. So, I await in anticipation the good news from the Transport Minister in the coming Transport Ministry COS.”
“Firstly, significantly speed up the implementation of the Bus Service Enhancement Programme (BSEP) including engaging private operators to do the job. I applaud the Government for coming up with the $1.1 billion BSEP. It is a decisive and necessary intervention to ramp up bus capacity. Left to the two public transport operators, the capacity build-up would not be fast enough. In fact, many Members would agree with me that it has a trying experience working with the Public Transport Operator (PTO) on the ground. Each of the requests submitted to these companies to improve bus services would often end up in a long-drawn discussion. And often, the final get-out answer from the PTO is that they have no drivers to increase the bus services. I hope that MOT would move away from the two PTOs model and start using more of the private operators to help expand the bus capacity, especially under the BSEP. The privately run bus operators are very entrepreneurial and resourceful as evidenced by the way they scale up their bus fleet in 2010 when they provided the island-wide free shuttle bus service to Resort World Singapore. If the two PTOs are incapable of increasing the bus capacity fast enough, we should not waste time on them and quickly look to other operators to do the job. Secondly, we need to manage the peak demand and further incentivise the non-peak hour travel. There is this inherent inefficiency in public transport where you design capacity to meet peak window demand. And at the non-peak window, capacity will be under-utilised and hence the overall operating costs would go up. One of the logical solutions is to encourage employers to adopt flexi-work hours or to start and end work at non-peak windows.”
“But no matter how we tweak the COE system, we cannot run away from the fact that the demands for COEs are higher than the available supply. The real and sustainable way to manage demand of car ownerships is really to offer a compelling alternative to owning a car. And it has to be public transport in our circumstances. Taking public transport must make sense to commuters in terms of convenience, reliability, value for money and comfort. Unfortunately, our public transport system at this point in time is still some way from the desired state. Long waiting times, long travelling times and crowded buses and trains are a daily norm. Chaotic scenes at major bus stops and at MRT and LRT stations during the morning and evening peaks are not helping to entice more to take public transport. Often, commuters need to make multiple transfers to reach their destination and at each transfer you have to again endure the waiting time and crowdedness; not to mention contenting with the elements of weather. To make matters worse, there are clearly many parts of our island that are under provided and underserved by public transport, especially in the HDB towns that have seen sharp increases in the population. We are building Page: 30 housing at a much faster rate than we improve public transport. This has worsened congestions and crowdedness. My colleagues at my workplace told me that commuting to and fro from work is probably the most unpleasant thing they have to do every day. While MRT lines will take a much longer time to build, we must do more to speed up the provision of bus services. Hence, I call on the Government to urgently act on some of the following measures I will suggest.”
“Mdm Speaker, I will be focusing on two areas of concerns that I have been hearing from Singaporeans and that this Budget also intends to address. Firstly, on Public Transport, and secondly, the job competition from the EPs in the PME space. Firstly, on public transport. In the Budget Statement, the Finance Minister made particular mention of the pressing challenges of housing and transport and that the Government will spare no effort in resolving these problems. Page: 29 Credit to the National Development Minister, I think we are on our way to resolving the housing imbalances in the next one to three years. The slew of demand management measures and the massive ramping up of housing supply has since begun to show some stabilising effects in the property market. All we are hoping now is for a nice soft landing in the next two to three years. However, in the area of transport, our Transport Minister has on hand a much bigger and tougher problem to solve. For example, just in the area of car ownership, how can the Government fulfill the aspiration for more Singaporeans to own a car? Is this possible? With our land constraints, it is inevitable that the growth of vehicle population on our island will one day come to zero. We are building new roads and expressways, and we are widening existing ones as well. But there is a limit as to how much we could increase road capacity. Even if we have more and wider roads being built which would help improve traffic, the emerging traffic problems on the ground now are actually bottlenecks and congestions at road junctions and slip roads, made worse by the higher housing density. The much greater convenience and comfort of owning a car coupled with rising incomes and easy car financing have pushed up COE to historically high levels.”
“Madam, I beg to move, [(proc text) Amendment No 1, in line 3, to delete the words "population policy". (proc text)] [(proc text) Amendment No 2, at the end, to add "projections; and supports maintaining a strong Singaporean core by encouraging more Singaporeans to get married and have children, supplemented by a calibrated pace of immigration to prevent the citizen population from shrinking; and recognises that the population projections beyond 2020 are for the purpose of land use and infrastructure planning, and not a population target; and calls on the Government to: (proc text)] [(proc text) (a) place priority on resolving current strains on the infrastructure, particularly in transport; (proc text)] [(proc text) (b) plan, invest in, and implement infrastructure development ahead of demand; (proc text)] [(proc text) (c) ensure that the benefits of our population policies, such as better job opportunities and salaries, flow to Singaporeans; and (proc text)] [(proc text) (d) carry out medium term reviews of our population policies and assumptions to take into account the changing needs of Singapore and Singaporeans, as well as changing domestic and external circumstances." (proc text)]”
“Yes, Madam, I do have copies. May I request the Clerk to distribute the proposed amendment to the Members? [Copies of the amendment were distributed to hon Members.]”
“Yes. [A copy of the amendment was handed to Mdm Speaker.] Page: 53”
“We also need to assure Singaporeans that our population policies are meant to benefit our citizens and that we will carry out medium term reviews on our population policies to take into account the changing needs of Singapore and Singaporeans. So, Madam, with your consent, I would like to propose an amendment to the Motion.”
“Given the expected population build-up, I would urge the Government to really build more and build faster. Instead of 10 hawker Page: 52 centres in 10 years, we should be looking at building 20 hawker centres in five years. And hawker centres are not major capital expenditure items and does not take up significant construction capacity. Madam, we need to agree on a roadmap to address the challenges of an ageing population and to articulate our land use plan to support future population projections. It is a matter of survivability for a small island state. I fully agree with Deputy Prime Minister Teo that it is more responsible to surface the issues and plan ahead while we are able to do so. It is a difficult choice but we must do what is right for Singaporeans of today and tomorrow. Hence, I support the Motion in the name of Deputy Prime Minister Teo. However, reflecting the concerns raised by Singaporeans since the release of the White Paper, I propose amending the Motion to further reinforce the point that the House supports maintaining a strong Singaporean Core by encouraging more Singaporeans to get married and have children. I also propose adding clarity to the Motion by recognising that population projections beyond 2020 are for the purpose of land use and infrastructural planning and not a population target, a point that was further made clear by Deputy Prime Minister Teo in his speech yesterday. Lastly, Madam, my belief is that we will not get buy-in from Singaporeans on our long-term plans if we do not demonstrate and commit to Singaporeans that we are serious in resolving our current bottlenecks and that, going forward, we will plan and invest in infrastructure ahead of demand.”
“If the existing two PTOs do not have the bandwidth to expand bus service capacity under BSEP, we should look to other private operators to do the job. We also need to urgently solve the road transport bottlenecks. One of the frustrations when dealing with agencies like LTA and HDB is that they seem to have their plates full and they have limited bandwidth left to attend to and resolve the local bottleneck issues. Even if a solution has been identified, I get the sense that they are either having problems getting the necessary funding or the funding will take a long while to come. These have to change if we are serious about building a high quality living environment for a growing population. If we have not already noticed that LTA and HDB are already up to their brim, I think we have to give them the full support so that they can do the job. In all fairness, they are all overwhelmed by the numerous requests, piling up from different quarters all over the island. At the same time, they also have their mega projects to oversee. So, clearly, the frontline agencies like LTA and HDB need to be given more resources and more funding if they are to quickly solve our current bottlenecks and ease the strains. In particular, greater approving authority should be delegated to lower levels so as to speed up the implementation of improvement projects, and more resources and funding are set aside to specifically solve local infrastructure problems. Madam, besides transport, another major concern is the lack of affordable eateries. I am glad the Government has resumed building hawker centres, but the timeline to build 10 hawker centres in 10 years is far from aggressive and not aspiring enough. Hawker centres serve many purposes and, among others, help keep cost of living low.”
“The Government needs to act decisively and swiftly, particularly in the area of transport. We need to speed up the bus capacity enhancement programme. Buses are still very crowded during the peak hours and chaotic scenes at bus stops are daily occurrences. Feeder services are inadequate and prolong the overall commuting time. While there are new MRT lines being constructed and planned, it will take many more years before they are ready. In the interim years, we need a major step-up in the provision of buses. The first-round implementation of BSEP, while good, hardly moves the needle too much and we need a stronger dose to see real meaningful improvements. If need be, the Government must be prepared to upsize the $1.1 billion BSEP if it is inadequate. Page: 51 If the current two public transport operators are incapable of increasing the bus fleets fast enough, we should look to other private operators to do the job. In 2010, I remember seeing how the Resort World Singapore was able to step up their free shuttle bus services from the heartlands to the IR, all in a matter of a few months, with their services running as late as 2.30 am. In fact, they were looking to expand their free shuttle bus services to more HDB towns until I raised this concern in Parliament and then the service was halted. Why is it that the IR operator could build up such an extensive bus service network so fast while our two experienced public transport operators are unable to cope and deliver? I am glad I pushed for the stoppage then as it not only made it less convenient for heartlanders to gamble at the casino but it also freed up bus drivers that would otherwise be driving for the IR operator.”
“That way, there will be a stronger sense of ownership to this national challenge where we can all work Page: 50 together to overcome. Hence, I suggest we should carry on medium-term reviews of our population policies and assumptions to take into account the changing needs of Singapore and Singaporeans, as well as changes in domestic and external circumstances. This has to be ongoing. Madam, the next part of my speech will focus on the short-term issues that are related to the White Paper. Without demonstrating that we can resolve our current bottlenecks and the under-provision of infrastructures and services, the long-term plan, however exciting it may look, will be less meaningful to Singaporeans. For Singaporeans caught in daily congestions on the roads and the crowded public transport, it is difficult to comprehend that we need even more people on this island and that all these will get better in the long term. The housing imbalances of the last three to four years have caused lots of angst to would-be home buyers. High COVs, long waiting time for BTOs and the fear of being caught behind the curve as property prices rise, are real problems and what many Singaporeans live through. Lack of affordable eateries has led to higher stall rentals and, as a result, higher food prices. The current strains on our infrastructure, particularly in transport, has somewhat dented public confidence in the Government's ability to deliver good and reliable public infrastructures and services. We need to restore this confidence. The Government has a long track record of delivering excellent public infrastructure in the past and I am confident we can solve these bottlenecks. It requires the resolve, cutting the red tape and, of course, the resources and the necessary funding.”
“And we still have time to prevent this from happening. Besides, stronger incentives to improve citizen fertility rate and increase productivity to reduce dependence on foreign workers, we should test-bed new business ideas, models and technology where foreigners can work for us and yet remain in their home country, for example, by way of off-shoring. Given our domestic constraints and our small domestic markets, we need even more local-bred companies who are deeply rooted in Singapore but yet derive more of their revenue from overseas through their regionalisation efforts. A GNP output concept would be a more meaningful indicator than the GDP for Singapore going forward. In fact, this possible threat with regard to Singaporean Core being weakened can be a rallying call or "call-to-action" where we mobilise our citizens to work together to prevent this dreadful scenario from happening. The key is to prevent the citizen population from shrinking. We can still act now. I agree with the Government's approach to be open and truthful with our people on the long-term challenges that we face and sharing honestly with our people what are the tough choices to tackle the challenges. The White Paper has generated strong reactions but I rather that the Government be honest about what it intends to do rather than keep this as classified information, and that our stakeholders would not need to second guess what are the scenarios that the Government envisages and what the Government's plans will be. 2.30 pm But I would urge the Government to consider the feedback and suggestions thrown up in this debate as we seek deeper understanding and consensus on this complex challenge. Where possible, the Government should be open to making changes and adjustments to our plans.”
“We also need a long-term economic strategy that can continue to create good and fulfilling jobs for our citizens, bearing in mind, come 2020, we will have at least 16,000 Singaporeans per year graduating from local Universities and many others from the Polytechnics and ITEs. We need to keep creating good employment, good jobs, for these graduates every year. No mean feat. Economic growth sustains our financial ability to pay for the higher social spending so that our retired citizens can age with dignity and security. Too low an economic growth will change that equation and things may not balance out. This is exactly what this Population White Paper and Land Use Plan are all about. And I agree with Deputy Prime Minister Teo that it is about doing the balancing acts. And that every issue is interlinked with one another and so you cannot just take one piece and say we should do more or do less. Every piece is linked. On the land space to accommodate the upper end of the projected population number; we have to have trust and faith in our planners' Page: 49 professional judgement that the island can accommodate the top end number comfortably and our city will still be liveable even with the top end being met. I think that is important. Even at the upper end of the population limit, our population density is still lower than many of the cities in the world. However, like Members before me, I am more concerned about the high proportion of foreigners relative to citizens residing in this island come 2030. I cannot imagine what kind of Singapore it would be like where we have a high proportion of foreigners, as high as 45%. Due credit must be given to the White Paper for pointing this out so that we know this possible scenario.”
“What would work against the strengthening of the Singaporean Core is where foreigners are seen to be taking up jobs that Singaporeans can do. There are clearly still many examples of that in some sectors. We need employers to be conscious of that. Page: 48 Notwithstanding the foreigners in our workforce, Singapore still enjoyed one of the lowest citizen unemployment rates in the world at about 2%. And it is not by accident. Our bustling economy is, of course, one key factor. But the optimal combination of local workforce complemented by foreign labour is also another key competitive edge of our companies here. It helps us earn a slice of the global economic pie. Having a foreign workforce does help to buffer the citizen workforce against the economic cycles. In a downturn or an economic slowdown, we can always tighten the work permits and Employment Passes to trim down the foreign workforce. It has happened during the downturn in 2001 and 2009 where foreign labour was significantly reduced then. I am sure the Government will again use this tool in similar circumstances so that citizen unemployment will be kept to the minimal. There is no point keeping the foreigners here if there are no jobs and also no jobs for Singaporeans. So, that would be a good buffer for us. Above all, we must never abandon those that are left behind from the competition. In an increasingly competitive landscape, we need an even stronger safety net so that no one is left behind. It is every such effort that reinforces our social compact so that Singaporeans form the core and heart of our nation. Madam, we need to invest big to create space and capacity to cope with higher population and to sustain a high quality of living environment.”
“5% growth rate would be considered as worst-case scenario. So, the answer is probably somewhere in between. The White Paper projected that we grow at a lower rate of between 1.1% and 1.6% over the next 18 years; about half the growth rate of the last 30 years. At that population growth, our projected total workforce growth would be between 1% and 2% from now till 2020 and 1% from 2020 onwards; a rate of growth that worries the businesses a great deal. This is much lower than the 3.3% per year in the last three decades. So, it is a major squeeze to the businesses, but we have to face up to the constraints. So, from a pace of growth standpoint, the 1.1% to 1.6% range appears logical. Well, some would argue we can have a bit more or less but it does not change the stark trade-offs that we are confronted with. Like what Deputy Prime Minister Teo said yesterday, we are talking about major shifts that will significantly slow down the growth rate of our workforce and population. It will definitely have significant ramifications on our economy, including employment and inflation. Even with a slower rate of growth, it would still mean that more foreigners will be entering the workforce in Singapore and more foreigners will reside in Singapore; a touchy point for many Singaporeans. The key concerns are: competition, crowdedness and a weakened Singaporean Core. These are all valid concerns. The key thrust of strengthening our Singaporean Core in the workforce is to help enhance the employability of Singaporeans and prepare Singaporeans for the competition. We need to help our citizens better maximise our so-called "home ground advantage" and benefit from the job opportunities available and get higher salaries.”
“Inevitably, taxes will need to be raise not just because of the smaller base of tax-paying citizens but also the expected higher social spending for a larger base of retired citizens. Even at a slower workforce growth rate of 1% to 2%, as projected in the White Paper, the Singapore Business Federation is already warning of devastating consequences for many companies; mostly SMEs. Companies will not have the headcount to grow their business. Given our circumstances as a small island state with no natural resources, if we are faced with a prolonged stagnant economy, would we still have the competitive ability to earn the foreign exchange to pay for what we import? Our food, energy, raw materials, basic needs are almost all imported and paid for by the foreign exchange that we earn because of our competitive economy. Consumers of the world do not owe us a living and we have to earn our keep. So, it is also about economic security. With a low fertility rate, ageing population and shrinking labour force all coming together, we are, indeed, facing a demographic time bomb and it had already started ticking away last year when the first batch of the Baby-Boomer generation entered 62 years of age. So, I think most Singaporeans would agree that zero population growth is not tenable at this stage of our development. Not at a time when a mega Baby-Boomer generation is entering into retirement in the next 20 years. Page: 47 If population growth rate cannot be zero, then the next decision would be – what should be the acceptable rate of growth: 1%, 2%, 3% or more? In the last 30 years, the country's population grew at a rate of 2.5% per year. I do not think we can continue to grow at that rate. Neither should we grow at zero percent. Indeed, either extreme of 0% or 2.”
“Mdm Speaker, like Members before me who have spoken, I struggled through the various trade-offs and the dilemmas that were presented in the White Paper. As a Member serving in a ward that also experienced under-provision of transport infrastructure, bus services and other amenities, I find it difficult to contemplate that we need even more headcount to stay viable as a country and it will bring a higher quality of life for our fellow citizens. This is what my heart tells me. Can we really take in more? That is the question. But let us take a step back and use this White Paper to search the truth. Let the head and logic do the work first. Thereafter, we can hear what our heart tells us and see how we could adjust. Page: 46 What we are debating in this House is a long-term challenge that has real implications on the lives and well-being of Singaporeans when they grow old and younger Singaporeans who would shoulder the responsibilities of taking care of our fast-growing number of ageing citizens. To start with, we are faced with hard choices and we know all too well that there are limited options available. So, let us go through the decision tree. The first decision is, given the grim ageing demographic, should we have a policy of zero population growth? We are not even talking about negative, I think that is out. But let us say zero population growth. What would happen if we have zero population growth? The truth is, come 2020, the number of working citizens will decline because the number of citizens retiring will be more than those entering the workforce. It will have direct contraction effects on the economy. It would also mean a heavier economic load to the smaller base of working citizens who have to support a much bigger base of retired citizens.”
“Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the LTA staff for making every effort to minimise traffic inconvenience to our residents affected by the Downtown Line construction. I would like to ask the Minister on this particular aspect of the last-mile experience. In particular, whether LTA would design and work out thoughtful pedestrian pathways and linkways to the MRT stations, especially the high-traffic station, like the Bukit Panjang Station. And whether LTA, as part of this massive construction, will put some effort into giving the commuters a positive experience in this last mile?”
“Sir, to follow up on Mr Teo's question, if a product published or advertised a return that is too good to be true, would the Government intervene and point this out in a more proactive manner?”
“Would that mean that more Singaporeans will not be eligible as more home values could rise beyond the $20,000 annual value criterion? Such an increase in annual values is non-cash items for the occupier and may not necessary mean they would correspondingly be better able to cope with the higher cost of living. While we encourage individuals to turn to their families for support, it may not be accurate to assume that those who live with families in properties above the $20,000 value do not require support or assistance. To an extent, it does seem that we are penalising those that live with their families. Separately, I have also received feedback with regard to the eligible age of 65 to qualify for the GSTV scheme. I understand this is in line with the new retirement age of 65 under the new re-employment law. The question is: how many Singaporeans are, indeed, able to secure re-employment after 62 and whether the new terms of contract, often at lower salary, would still enable them to cope with the cost of living, including GSTs? Page: 1290 Also, the assessable income used to determine the GSTV payout for 2012 is based on assessable income for Year of Assessment 2011; in other words, based on income earned in 2010 or two years ago. Would the lag be too long and can this be shortened so that it is more responsive to their needs? For the above scenarios, I would request that a review and a further work be done to refine the eligibility criterion. Finally, I support this legislation which places the Fund under the purview of the Minister for Finance, and will ensure that the money set aside in the Fund is to provide financial assistance to eligible persons under the GSTV Scheme. Sir, I support the Bill. 6.09 pm”
“So, today's Bill will allow the establishment of the Goods and Services Tax Fund to finance the payment of the Goods and Services Tax Vouchers (GSTV). And this will ensure that there is funding available for the GSTV Scheme, regardless of the economic conditions in the next five years. In this regard, I would like to ask the Minister how the GSTV will be funded beyond the five years when it is due? The outlay for the GST voucher is estimated to be about $680 million for FY2012 and the fund will mostly be depleted in about five years' time. Would the appropriation from the Consolidated Fund be substantially reduced if we are faced with a prolonged downturn that significantly impacts the Government's revenue? Next, on the eligibility of the GSTV scheme, starting July this year, Singaporeans and households who qualify for GST Voucher would have received notification and the payout. I have received some feedback with regard to the eligibility of the scheme. I agree that using household income and value of the home are, by and large, a fair attempt to ascertain those that need help from the GSTV scheme. However, it does leave out some people who may need help. There are two segments that I would like to highlight with regard to this question of eligibility for the Cash and Medisave component of the GST Voucher. Firstly, the retirees and older Singaporeans who are aged 65 years and above, who own and live in homes that fall above the annual value criterion of $20,000. Secondly, older Singaporeans aged 65 years and above who do not have an income or property but are living with their children or relatives in properties that are above the annual value criterion of $20,000. Annual property values have risen in recent years and may continue to rise.”
“Sir, one of the common concerns and criticisms of tax on consumption is that it is a flat tax and, therefore, regressive in nature. It takes up a higher proportion of the pay from the lower income groups. However, unique to Singapore and notwithstanding the GST, our overall taxation system is still progressive; taking into account the other Government subsidy programmes, such as Workfare, housing, education and healthcare. These assistance schemes typically require means testing and are specifically structured to favour the lower and middle-income groups so that they receive more subsidies. The newly introduced GST Voucher is another addition to the suite of social transfers and is an effective way to mitigate the regressive nature of GST by directly assisting lower and middle-income households to cope with the GST. In some groups, such as the lower income seniors, the GST Voucher would more than offset the GST they pay. When the scheme was announced in Budget 2012, what caught my attention is the word "permanent". The GST voucher is a permanent system of offsets as opposed to the earlier schemes which were one-offs and depended on the immediate budget position. The permanent nature of the scheme is a comforting assurance. Cost of living is amongst Singaporeans' top concerns. Hence, this permanent scheme will go a long way towards addressing the concerns of the lower and middle-income households on the impact of GST on their available disposable cash. Page: 1289 This is a major commitment by the Government, with $3.6 billion being set aside for the next five years to fund this scheme. The Government will make additional injections to the Fund as and when the budget position permits.”